Pettitte Admits Using HGH

by markleonette on Dec 15, 2007 5:02 PM CST Comment 31 comments

Andy Pettitte admitted to twice using Human Growth Hormone in 2002 to recover from an injury. Clemens might not be too happy about this, since it lends a little more credibility to McNamee.

Here's the link from Newsday. I edited this to clean up the link, and I'm now under 300 characters, so hopefully this puts me back over the limit.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs | Comment 31 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Pettitte's

always seems like a decent guy. Not a surprise that Clemens is so defiant. He's a jerk like Bonds.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2007 4:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good Job Andy.

Glad he came right out and admitted what he did- I think it's the best way to handle it and the right thing to do. I actually believe what he said, even if he was a little defensive.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Dec 15, 2007 5:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This hurts Clemens the most

Clemens is the new Palmeiro, but he doesn't have many places to turn. After saying that his former trainer was forced by the feds to tell all this lies then it turns out what he said about Pettite was exactly right. Who's credibility is really in question?

Luis

by Luis on Dec 15, 2007 5:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think people understand

that while Clemen's trainer may have had incentive to spill the beans, he also had incentive to tell the truth. Any deal these guys cut is based on them not making stuff up. If they are caught lying, you have another Barry Bonds issue where he was indicted for purjury.

It seems a lot of folks think these guys have no credibility because they have been nailed by the Feds. Not quite so. If they were to make stuff up about Clemens or anybody else, they fact stiffer sentences than if they didn't agree to cooperate at all.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 15, 2007 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't help but think....

.... about the hundreds of interrogations I've done over the years. We used to have a rule of thumb- Even if we had a solid paper trail, people would only admit to about a third to half of what they've actually done. It helps them clear their conscience by admitting wrongdoing and at the same time, they still feel they've protected themselves in some manner by not coming forth with information that to them, the interrogator doesn't seem to know.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Dec 17, 2007 7:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Job?

Good Job admitting you where a cheater? admitting to the world that you put potentially harmful chemicals inside your body?

The only reason why Pettitte admitted he used HGH is simple:

He got caught.

"I guess you had some lean years, and didnt have to beat it hard" - Craig Sager

by Galvan316 on Dec 15, 2007 6:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

better than

trying to cover up. See Nixon for more.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2007 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I applaud Pettitte

for being forthcoming, and it definitely puts Clemens in some hot water. Clemens already took the Bonds angle -- deny and moan about being attacked. He's lost his credibility.

"And heeeere cooome the pretzels!"

by NightPutting on Dec 15, 2007 6:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

One Thing I Should Have Put in the Diary...

Does this open Pettitte up to a suspension? I'm probably as anti-PED as anybody here, and in my opinion, this whole era is a stain on baseball that can't be removed. But I think if players come clean and admit their mistakes, they should not be punished.

by markleonette on Dec 15, 2007 7:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

no way.....HGH wasnt even

..on the banned substances list in 2002.

I would imagine by coming clean publicaly so quickly he will end up looking much better than most in the long run.

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Dec 15, 2007 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

None of these guys

will get suspended. At this point, I think that is the right choice.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 15, 2007 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

I'll have more to say on this later today.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2007 4:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Personally,

I don't care if these guys used HGH. The substance has legitimate medical uses. There are a zillion HGH 'stimulators' on the market (mostly a combo of amino acids, and I doubt if they work) for so-called 'anti-aging' therapy.

HGH is used to help childern who's normal growth patterns are stunted. I don't see HGH to be a problem.

'Roids, are another matter altogether. I don't think the two categories of substances should be linked together as 'evil.'

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 15, 2007 8:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Geez, lets throw him a parade

The spin masters keep throwing out there that the Mitchell report was unsubstantiated. There were quite a few cancelled checks and first hand accounts. All Petitte did was admit to what was already known about him. People are always remorseful and more truthful when they've been caught. If he wanted to be a big help he could have come forward during the investigation and been upfront about it.

by Nibbles on Dec 15, 2007 10:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

At the same time...

... I don't see any other active players coming forward. In fact, the report makes clear that the MLBPA pretty much told every active player who was asked to talk to Mitchell to not do so.

Given that, Pettitte deserves a lot of credit for coming forward, even at this late date.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2007 4:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have to give him a little credit...

Yeah, he was outed. Yeah, he used HGH at a time when it wasn't banned by MLB. And while others were categorically denying that they'd used anything, he spoke up and said that yes, he did do this.

Would he have done it if McNamee hadn't named him? Probably not. Nor would he have admitted using it if it were said he did so in 2005 or later.

Petitte realizes there were no punishments for HGH use in 2001, since it was not banned by the sport at that time.

Still, he could've gone the denial route and put out some sort of outraged statement through his lawyers.

He may not be the most moral of all people, since he waited for the report to come out before admitting anything, but at least he did admit to it. And for that I give him credit. If only a smidgeon of it.

MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Dec 16, 2007 4:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

There is a huge difference

There is a huge difference between taking HGH to help recover from an injury with a doctor's prescription and shooting steroids up your butt.

I don't have a problem with players using HGH while underdoing injury recovery.

In fact if you look at the list of guys who were on the CNBC fake list and not on the real list you wonder if there was a list of guys that filed paperwork with MLB with prescriptions and backup that it was medically legitimate and were cleared.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 16, 2007 8:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

As I have stated before

no legit sportsmedicine physician will prescribe HGH to recover from injury. This is precisely why these guys need to go to these rejuvenation centers to get them. Some of the guys even went to a dentist to get their hands on HGH.

They can say all they want they used them to recover from injury, but that is not what the stuff is prescribed for.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 16, 2007 9:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't take this the wrong way

I've spent some time trying to figure out how to ask you this without it coming off wrong.

But are you an actual physician? I've seen a few people with doctors prescriptions come forward over the years. Please don't misunderstand this question I'm trying to see what your background is.

I think you've mentioned some kind of medical background before so I just want to clarify.

That one guy had a dentist prescribe it but if Petit had a doctor prescribe it that looks different and I'm sure he can bring forward paperwork.

Maybe it was an experiment also to see if it works.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 16, 2007 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am not

a physician, nor do I play one on TV.

I do have an advanced degree in physiology, but my sportsmedicine experience comes from being employed with a company who worked with a number of professional teams and their team physicians. I have been around a number of sports medicine docs who no 100 times more about this stuff than I ever will, and I get the chance to chat with a couple who are close friends quite often.

One last time, a legit doc would never prescribe HGH for an athlete.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 16, 2007 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

That makes it clearer although we have to see where these HGH prescriptions come from. perhaps some doctors feel it helps or was worth a try.

By the way I did play a doctor on TV. I got a walk on part when I was a freelance writer for soap opera magazines and I was a doctor. No speaking lines but I was a doctor.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 16, 2007 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And also

And also I'm glad you realized I wasn't putting you down or anything, I just wanted to know if this was an opinion or based on fact and clearly you are basing this on fact. You were so clear when you say things I had a feeling you had more than opinion beyond what you said.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 16, 2007 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just to clarify

HGH is usually prescribed for children who have an issue with their pituitary gland not producing enouph natural HGH for normal growth. It could also be prescribed for adults, if, it is shown their natural production of HGH is far below normal and that is quite rare.

In an otherwise healthy person, no one knows the ramifications of loading someone up with synthetic HGH, when their body is already producing what it is supposed to. There are a boatload of potential harmful side effects from HGH, and this is why no legit doc would prescribe it for an athlete to simply recover from an injury.

If you recall, Lyle Alzado experiemented with HGH back in the 70's along with steriods as well. He ended up dying of a brain tumor at a very early age. HGH is naturally produced in the pituitary gland, which happens to be in the middle of your brain.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2007 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's why it's harmful to perpetuate the myth

...that HGH actually benefits athletes. From the Mitchell report itself:

A number of studies have shown that use of human growth hormone does not increase muscle strength in healthy subjects or well-trained athletes. Athletes who have tried human growth hormone as a training aid have reached the same conclusion. The author of one book targeted at steroid abusers observed that "[t]he most curious aspect of the whole situation is that I've never encountered any athlete using HGH to benefit from it, and all the athletes who admit to having used it will usually agree: it didn't/doesn't work for them."

There's a ton of studies to back this up as well. So why does the media keep harping on it? If there was straight talk about how useless and harmful it is, people would stop doing it. Instead there's this mad scramble to find a way to test for it, despite it's ineffectiveness.

by Wreckard on Dec 17, 2007 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think because

there is still debate over whether it does help with short term muscle growth, endurance, etc. There just hasn't been enouph studies done to determine what the benefits are. Some scientists believe it does help, others are not convinced.

The big issue here are the long term effects of a healthy person taking doses of HGH. Just like steriods, it can have signficant negative impact on one's health. These guys are really playing Russian Roulette with their bodies, which is why everyone is so concerned with the example it sets for young kids.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly!

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The difference to me

is whether it was prescribed by a doctor to aid in recovery of an injury.

Perhaps they should institute a policy in which one must clear drug testing in order to be reinstated from the DL.

These substances have legitimate uses in physical injury recovery, but should be gone by the time a player makes it back between the lines in games that count in MLB.

"I lof to hit de home ron!"

by Tekboy on Dec 16, 2007 11:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

The problem with some of the players who have "had it with a doctor's prescription" is that some of them have gotten their prescriptions from some pretty shady characters.

If baseball does this they'd have to insist that only team doctors do the prescribing, or a personal doctor who has the approval of MLB.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2007 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good idea

Good idea.

Maybe even hire an expert to oversee a program where players who need to be on something for either an injury or it could be another health reason clear it through that.

That's where I wonder where the other list comes from. If you look at the names that were on the NBC list and not on the final list you might notice a lot of guys had injury situations.

For example Kerry Wood.

Perhaps his name came up somewhere. Perhaps during one of his 234821083901283190283081 injuries he was prescribed something that falls into the questionable category.

They might have called the Cubs and the Cubs may have said "Yes Kerry was on abc during this period. Dr. Adams prescribed it he was on it from this day to that day" and sent backup with it.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 16, 2007 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

More Clemens/Pettite

"I've watched the fallout from the Mitchell report as the veteran prosecutor/criminal defense attorney that I am. With respect to Roger Clemens, the Mitchell report contained the statement of his personal trainer who said that he personally injected Clemens and Andy Petitte on more than one occasion. In the real world of criminal trials, the testimony of one eyewitness generally is sufficient to support a conviction. On top of that, we have Andy Pettite's admission that he was injected with HGH by this trainer on 2 occasions (the trainer had said he injected Pettite between 2 and 4 times.) For a prosecutor, Petitte is a gold mine. A prosecutor likes nothing more than to have a friend of the accused provide a statement that corroborates the statement of the principal accuser. In the face of this evidence, Clemens' denials through his attorney carry no weight.

At this point, I see no difference between Clemens and Bonds. Both had late career surges that were inappropriate for their ages. Both are accused by substantial evidence that they engaged in the illegal use of performance-enhancing drugs. Both should be treated the same by the public and the media."

The guy who wrote this IMO has said it best concerning the Pettite admittance and what it means for Clemens.

by Luis on Dec 16, 2007 8:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

How decent and honorable of Pettitte?

Give. Me. A. Break.

My girls (1st and 2nd graders) do the same thing when we catch them doing something wrong.

Admitting your mistakes AFTER your caught is not a virtue.

However, since HGH wasn't even against the MLB "rules" when he took them, I don't see what the big fat hairy deal is anyway. Getting them illegally and taking them without a prescription is a violation of a FEDERAL/STATE law, but not so as regards to Baseball. Baseball (Selig) seems to just be using this entire "PED" scandal as a reset button for their credibility.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 17, 2007 1:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs