Monday Morning Headlines

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 9:01 AM CST in News Comment 78 comments

Miscellaneous stuff I found interesting this morning:

Japanese pitcher Hiroki Kuroda, who the Cubs pursued, for a time, both last offseason and this, signed a 3-year, $35.3 million deal with the Dodgers over the weekend. SBN's Dodger blog TrueBlueLA says the Dodgers got an older, more expensive Kyle Lohse.
Bud Selig wants HGH testing. One US congressman says he may introduce legislation to give him that by law, or at least mandate some sort of drug testing for professional athletes, even while saying: "Let's be frank, this is not the No. 1 issue for the American people." And, if you think a HGH test is not yet available, think again.
NL Manager of the Year Bob Melvin has been signed to a three-year contract extension by the Diamondbacks.
Rick Morrissey spends column space today talking about Sammy Sosa's absence from the Mitchell Report and how that's wrong, because:
And Sammy? Clean as a whistle, according to his many fans. Must be, because his name didn't show up in the Mitchell report, they say.
Are we to believe that, among the Big Three, only Sosa's numbers are legitimate? That Sosa came by his amazing power naturally? That his numbers suddenly jumped when he reached a certain age? That somehow those stunning numbers—numbers that are out of whack with baseball history—were the result of superior talent and work ethic?

The "Big Three" to whom he refers are Sosa, Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire. While it appears that Sosa may be among those who should have been on "The List", first, I am neither going to accuse nor exonerate him here, and second, as I wrote yesterday, the constant MSM focus on "naming names" misses the point -- which is that no matter who did or didn't do steroids or related PED's, the game has to be cleaned up, and the Mitchell Report gives some useful suggestions on how to at least get this started.
As for "the numbers", which also appears to be a MSM focus, they are what they are. You can't wipe a decade's worth of stats out of the record books and pretend they didn't happen. They happened. Millions saw them happen. It will be up to us, and future generations, to decide what they mean in context. To Morrissey and others who continue to harp on "naming names", I'd suggest you stop and think about what the real issue is here.
Jayson Stark has some thoughts about the difference in the reaction to Andy Pettitte's HGH admission over the weekend, and a similar admission by a certain NFL player.
For those of us who don't like Scott Boras, A-Rod reveals he and his agent aren't on speaking terms.
Interesting article from the NY Daily News about former Cub Moises Alou and the thoroughbred horses he owns in the Dominican Republic.
Finally, Athletics Nation has a compendium of reader thoughts on who the A's should ask for if they do trade Joe Blanton; the Cubs aren't mentioned in that post as one of his possible destinations (Mariners, Indians, Mets, Reds are discussed).

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My thoughts

I saw part of that 60 minutes piece about Rodriguez before my DirectTV went out again, like it did all day yesterday (different subject), and no matter what I always feel like he is performing for the camera. He is just one of those guys who bother me for some reason and I think its because I feel like there isn't a genuine bone in his body.

I agree completely on naming names, it doesn't really change anything with Sosa's name not being in the report. Most people know he was on something, and the people that don't are the same ones who don't think the Mitchell Report is valid. The only name that gives me some sort of satisfaction, and maybe thats wrong, is Roger Clemens. There are two reasons for this, because when he was putting up these insane numbers as he was getting older, I personally never really heard whispers about him like we did with a lot of other people. He somehow got a pass. Also, I get very annoyed with his "come backs".

by slocs55 on Dec 17, 2007 9:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I hate it when writers...

...start getting all histrionic about steroids.

"That Sosa came by his amazing power naturally? That his numbers suddenly jumped when he reached a certain age? That somehow those stunning numbers--numbers that are out of whack with baseball history--were the result of superior talent and work ethic?"

He stopped swinging at bad pitches, jackass. Did you ever bother to watch the '98 team? If Soriano learned some plate discipline he'd hit 60 too. The "numbers jump at a certain age" thing is just not a good argument. Stick with the "hat size" argument.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Dec 17, 2007 9:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Also...

... in 1998, Sosa was 29 years old, still considered to be in his "prime" years, unlike McGwire (34 in 1998) and Bonds (37 in 2001, his freak HR season).

Sosa always credited Jeff Pentland with helping him stop swinging at bad pitches. Whether Sosa is guilty of using PED's or not (and again, I am not passing judgment here), I find it no coincidence that his numbers began to tail off after Pentland was fired.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It really wouldn't kill Morrissey to just...

....well, go out and report, would it?

I mean, he's been with the Trib since 1997 or so, right? So he knows people that were with the team at the time of Sosa's home run explosion. He's been in the business for quite a while, so I have to presume he didn't sleep through the part of J-school where they go over investigative reporting techniques.

I'm partly kidding, but honestly -- doesn't a man with Morrissey's occupation and background have some responsibility in these cases to at least try to back up the talk? He tries to insulate himself from charges of being the watchdog who didn't bark:

On one side are people who chide reporters for not being proactive in outing athletes who abused performance-enhancing drugs. To repeat: No headway was made into baseball's drug problems until the federal government got involved. Two former employees of major-league teams who supplied information to the Mitchell investigation did so only because federal authorities had applied pressure. The names of players who were buying human growth hormone from "rejuvenation" centers in Florida and New York came to light only because of law-enforcement raids on those facilities.

...

The problem with what's now called the Steroids Era is that a very large blanket is going to smother the reputations of some innocent ballplayers. Players who came by their greatness naturally will be doubted. I don't believe Sosa to be among the unfairly accused.

You don't believe? Why not? And maybe we can forgive you your lack of reporting back in 2000 or whenever. So why can't you, y'know, actually go out and report on it now? Otherwise you're really starting to tread the line of base slander.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 17, 2007 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jeff Pentland.

Is Jeff Pentland still around? If so, I wonder if he could do some good with Soriano? As suggested above, it sure would be great to see Alfonso show more discipline at the plate.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Dec 17, 2007 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's the hitting coach for the Mariners

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/team/coach_staff_bio.jsp?c_id=sea&coachorstaffid=427392

Old Style is the nectar of life.

by Mordecai on Dec 17, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's done a wonderful job

with Richie Sexson

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 17, 2007 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Say it ain't so...

Whether Sosa is guilty of using PED's or not (and again, I am not passing judgment here), I find it no coincidence that his numbers began to tail off after steroid testing began.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 18, 2007 12:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

That's also when he hit his mid-30's. If he hadn't tailed off in those years, people would be saying that it's a sign that he was using PEDs because he wasn't tailing off at a natural progression.

He's damned to this kind of speculation no matter what he does.

by Wreckard on Dec 18, 2007 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I should have made clear...

...that I was kidding.

Whether Sosa "juiced" or not doesn't really matter to me in the end. I think the guy belongs in the HOF, without any question. IF he was "juicing" then IMHO the blame falls on management who turned a blind eye to what was going on with so many players. It's too late for asterisks.

I'm glad though that baseball has been exposed. It certainly needed to be cleaned up, painful as it has been for those mentioned (rightfully or wrongfully).

In a way it's similar to the so-called Black Sox scandal. The Sox players were not the only players throwing games, not at all. But they were the ones who got caught. They were the ones who got penalized. In the end though, the game needed to get clean-up, it's not entirely fair that the Sox players bear that burden alone (and at least one was most likely not guilty) but the game needed to go thru that painful process. Same with the PED "scandal."

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 18, 2007 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I buy your theory

that part of the reason Sosa hit more homers was because he was more selective.

Now, let's ask why he all of a sudden became more selective? IMO, it was because his increased strength/bat speed, allowed him to wait a fraction of a second longer on each pitch before he committed to swing. For a hitter, there is nothing more powerful than having the ability to wait on a pitch until the last possible moment. It is the difference between taking that breaking ball in the dirt, or whiffing at it like Soriano does so often.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2007 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The worst things about the naming of names

is that, in many instances, the "proof" wouldn't even make it to court and the list is just a partial sample of who allegedly used PEDs.

This was one investigation that grew from a couple of clubhouse guys in New York. If someone wanted to prove Sammy or anyone else used PEDs they could investigate them directly. This list exonerates no one and lumps cheaters with some who might have tried HGH once to come back faster from an injury.

I find it hard to believe that adults are even writing a lot of the outraged stuff I see in newspapers and in blogs. The naivety is both alarming and pathetic. No wonder the country's such a mess. We dress like children in our jerseys and and hats and we act like children during a fake crisis like this and real crises of which, these days, there are too many to list.

Time to grow up. Everyone, in one way or another, cheats.

by TR on Dec 17, 2007 10:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

My take on PED's and the STeriod era

I find it very interesting all this uproar about steroids. Like TR said, everybody cheats. Cheating has been part of the game for years. Back in the 60's it was "greenies" I remember the story of when Ron Santo's roomie, Glen Beckert discovered Santo giving himself a shot of Insulin. Beckert, who was in a slump at the time told Santo he wanted some of whatever he was giving himself since Santo was doing so good at the time. Everyone just laughs at the story, but it shows that some sort of PED use was accepted way back then. There are legendary stories of "leaded" and "unleaded" coffee in the club houses. So is it any surprise that when steroids became more widely available to baseball players that they used them?

And as for the righteous uproar to eliminate the records of these players, how many players in the 60's won games hopped up on greenies? How about how many home runs were hit with that little boost? Records are the records, no matter when they were made or under what conditions the players were in. Be they hyped up on greenies or bulked up with steroids, they all seemed to have a little help. These are all grown men, playing a boys game that we all enjoy watching. The fact that the players do anything they can to stay on their game to continue playing this boys game just shows how much they want to keep playing this game and how much we all enjoy watching this game.

Kasey

See the Cubs 2008 schedule at http://ignarski.tripod.com/sched2008.html

by kaseyi on Dec 17, 2007 10:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Whoa

"Like TR said, everybody cheats. Cheating has been part of the game for years."

There is a big difference between cheating and altering one's physical being. I'm not saying one is okay and one isn't but it isn't the same. Athletics is a competition and one's participation in that competition is dictated by their physical abilities. If you lack those abilities you don't get to participate at certain levels and once your physical abilities begin to deteriorate your production level does as well. Players can do various things to advance or maintain their abilities but there is a line and injecting illegal or illegally obtained performance enhancers undermines the fundamental concept behind sports.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 17, 2007 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

Everyone who competes always tries to get an edge, something "extra" that will help him win. But in the case of steroids, it appears to be a case of "Well, all the stars are doing it and if I don't, I might lose my job."

I'm not saying that's right, I'm simply saying that appears to be the line of thought here.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait...

are you seriously saying that Ron Santo was juicing it up?!

Did he just say funky butt-loving?

by Louie on Dec 17, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course not

Do you not know what an insulin injection is and why diabetics may need them?

Please read kasey's post again.

Free the upper deck!

by zambranofan on Dec 17, 2007 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No...

What I am saying is that Santo was seen by a teammate (Beckert) injecting himself with Insulin. This teammate thought Santo was injecting himself with "something" that was helping his performance on the field so he wanted some of that. Now what Santo was doing was just giving himself his Insulin, but the fact that Beckert wanted some of that if it helped him on the field shows that the idea of doing something under the table to help performance is not really a new concept in the Major Leagues.

Kasey

See the Cubs 2008 schedule at http://ignarski.tripod.com/sched2008.html

by kaseyi on Dec 17, 2007 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait!?!

Are you seriously saying that Santo is a diabetic?

Geez, the naming name thing is gettnig ridiculous.

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Dec 17, 2007 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Big Three won't be so big after

ARod demolishes all the HR records in the next decade or so, in this now presumably steroid-free era of baseball.

Bonds can enjoy his steroids-tainted record for the moment, but ultimately that will fall to a guy without a drug-suspicious history and who has always tested negative - as far as I know.

by JFCubFan on Dec 17, 2007 10:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Clemens to pitch in 08?

This, I think, is interesting. He's taking quite a gamble of 1) getting booed ala Bonds, 2) sucking like he did in 07 and further tarnishing his legacy, 3) coming off as astoundingly arrogant if he, in fact, is guilty of using PED's.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-sproger1215,0,3405607.story

by NO100 on Dec 17, 2007 10:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

That is, of course...

... if anyone even signs him. Clemens was pretty damn average in 2007, 6-6 in 18 appearances (17 starts) with a 4.18 ERA, a 1.31 WHIP and an ERA+ of 107.

For comparison's sake, Sean Marshall's numbers were just about as good as Clemens', and he did it for a whole lot less money.

I'm guessing even the Yankees will pass.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

60 minutes interview w/ A Rod....

...The most important question here hasnt been asked or subseqently answered. Why hasn't A Rod fired Boras?

If he was so embarrased that he felt it neccesary to go on national tv to "clear" his name, why not completely sever ties with him?

Anyone know the in's and out's of disolving a relationship with an agent?

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Dec 17, 2007 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Fire

He won't fire him because Boras always gets the money. If you want a huge contract, Boras is your guy.

by McRipper on Dec 17, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Contract

I think it was on 60 minutes but I think I heard Boras will get $15 million from the deal. I don't understand why becuase he didn't negoiate the contract. A-Rod will probably never get another contract unless at age 40 he re-negotiates. Because A-Rod hasn't fired him makes me believe even more that he is a fraud. The only other money that Boras would get would be from endorsements and with A-Rod being such a gigantic tool, he really doesn't get that many.

Please let me know if I'm off base and not thinking of other instances where Boras would make money off of him.

by slocs55 on Dec 17, 2007 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Deal

I seriously doubt that Boras had nothing to do with A-Rod signing that deal. I know that's what everybody is saying, but i don't buy it. He probably can't milk anymore money from A-Rod, but he has a crapload of clients and he'll get a lot of money from them. If he really didn't do anything and had nothing to do with the negotiations, then why should anybody have an agent?

by McRipper on Dec 17, 2007 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I imagine

that the agent deals have some sort of clause, similar to one in realtor agreements, where if a player signs within a certain timeframe the agent gets his commission, even if the player did all the work. I don't know that for sure, though.

A-Rod would have a good argument for fighting that clause, since it seems that Boras put him in a horrible position where the only way that A-Rod could get top dollar (read: Yankees) would be to work alone. However, it would be a nasty fight, and all parties might realize that they'd benefit from keeping things out of court and working out an agreement privately.

All this being said, I've never read a pro sport agency agreement, so if anyone has more specific thoughts, they'd be appreciated.

by TC Cubby on Dec 17, 2007 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think

that ARod went over all the legal details, paperwork and insurance requirements himself?

Look, ARod may have done an end-around Boras and negotiated the basic framework of a contract himself, but I'm sure Boras' Agency actually wrote the thing up and explained the whole thing to Alex.

Could he have fired Boras and hired someone else to do it cheaper? Sure. He chose not to. There were probably a lot of reason why he chose not to. Loyalty would likely be one. Another is that Boras is going to still be working on commercial endorsements and the like for Alex for the next seven years. A third is that if you've read anything about the Boras agency, it's a lot more than just some guys who negotiate a contract. There is the Boras Sports Training Institute, that employes some of the top trainers and sports psychologists in the business. There's a communications center that has archived every single MLB ballgame played over the last couple decades. In a few minutes, Rodriguez can see every single career AB he's every had against Scott Kazmir, for example.

The point is, that if you think that all Scott Boras does is call up major league teams and make extortion demands, you're sadly mistaken. While Rodriguez feels that Boras screwed up his negotiations with the Yankees (and no doubt Boras feels the same about Alex), Rodriguez apparently still wants to be a member of "Team Boras" and all the other benefits that go with that.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Dec 17, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I tried to post a diary re:

Bobby Rush's proposed legislation, but it said I didn't use enough words, so I noted it and provided a link in the thread from yesterday's conversation.

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 17, 2007 11:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The diary minimum...

... is 300 characters, not 300 words.

Hint if you're a little short, try putting a short quote in from the link you're quoting. See the Diary/Comment Posting Tips on the right sidebar for a way to put these in a nice-looking quotebox.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I saw that -

I'm a man of few words, despite what my wife says.

;-)

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 17, 2007 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WAIT--Is anyone reading the REAL news???

Sure, Moises Alou owns multiple horses, but we're only finding out about this NOW?????? This is big stuff!!

"My wife (Austria) once arranged lunch with (horse trainer) Bob Baffert in Los Angeles when I was playing for the Cubs," says Alou. "It was for my 15th wedding anniversary. Baffert paid, we talked horses for two hours. Unbelievable experience."

Why was this "unbelievable experience" under wraps??? This makes me really, really mad. Plus, it reminds me of Barbaro. Poor guy...

by cubs2234 on Dec 17, 2007 12:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Figures.

I suspected Alou of this for years. I'd expect this from a Fergie Jenkins, but Alou? Shocking.

by daubs on Dec 17, 2007 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did I miss something?

What are you guys talking about?

by McRipper on Dec 17, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Alou

tested positive for talking about horses.

by NO100 on Dec 17, 2007 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good one

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 17, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or he tested positive

for having pee on his hands. Don't shake with that one....

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Dec 17, 2007 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Always touch fists

with Moises. Do NOT shake.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 17, 2007 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's ok--we all have days like this

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/12/16/2007-12-16_for_mets_moises_alou_race_trac k_no_place.html?ref=rss

by cubs2234 on Dec 17, 2007 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the link.

I had also posted it in the original post.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I read the article

I didn't know if you guys were having fun or if you were serious.

by McRipper on Dec 17, 2007 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How much...

...more time and money is going to be wasted on HGH testing before people realize that it provides no performance enhancement? There were two more studies published last week that showed this. What it can help is recovery from injuries, so why do we care if it is prescribed by a doctor to help a player recover from an injury? We don't care if players are prescribe NSAIDs or painkillers.

by jolietconvict on Dec 17, 2007 1:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

One more time

the main reason is people who have normal levels of HGH (99.9%) don't need HGH to recover from injury. Also, there is some evidence, when you have normal levels of HGH, taking HGH can cause signficant health issues down the road. Probably not a good idea setting this example and having high school and college athletes running for HGH everytime they have an injury.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

but is setting a good example reason enough to implement HGH testing? Yes, it's bad for your health, but so is, say, football.

by NO100 on Dec 17, 2007 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely

it is a good enouph reason. Why wouldn't you want to protect both professional and amateur athletes from doing things that could cause signficant health issues down the road?

I'll admit, this risk has not quite hit home yet, because the use of both steriods and HGH is a relatively recent phenomenon in baseball, but we have already seen what has happened to many NFL players from the 70's and 80's.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2007 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Education is the best deterrent

If we were able to get rid of the notion that HGH = steroids, which is a myth that the media continues to perpetuate, people would stop using it. Players and teenagers aren't going to use something so risky if they knew it was ineffective.

Instead, though, people keep on parroting this idea that HGH is some kind of threat to the integrity of the game. The implication there to teens and players is that it's an effective PED, when the truth is a lot less clear than that.

by Wreckard on Dec 17, 2007 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because

where do you draw the line? Like I wrote, football just in it's natural state is hazardous to one's long term health. There are many examples of players pushing the envelope to get back on the field.

Now, just because a player wants to go to bat without a helmet doesn't mean MLB should allow him to. There's a difference between "pushing the envelope" and "stupid".

I'm not saying that there aren't plenty of valid reasons to ban HGH. I'm just not sure if this is one of them.

by NO100 on Dec 17, 2007 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Liveball Era

We already refer to a "deadball" era to explain the significance of hitters accomplishments when stats don't make sense. I recommend we refer to these past couple of decades as the "liveball" era.

Also, I think MLB got flat ripped off by Sen. Mitchell. For 20 mill he delivered a summary of some federal investigations (already paid for by taxpayers) and some good but obvious recommendations. I'd have given him maybe $200,000 for that. At the end of the day the investigation portion was a failure. Maybe it was doomed from the outset, but it seems stupid that MLB (and consequently the fans) have to pay for a charade of an investigation.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 17, 2007 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly What Do PEDs Do?

From everything I have seen, PEDs help athletes build strength and endurance. Fine, Rick Monday would have hit 60 home runs instead of 60 warning track fly balls.

- Do PEDs improve your reflexes, allowing you to wait longer on the pitch? Not from what I have read.

- Do PEDs improve your vision, so you can pick up the seams and judge the pitch better? No from what I have read.

- Do PEDs make you smarter, so you can out-think the pitcher? Not on the evidence.

- Do PEDs give you a killer hard slider like Woody had? Not from what I've read.

- Do PEDs let pitchers throw harder, longer than they did in the past? Not from that stats.

I'm not even sure they make you heal faster, despite what Petite says.

by AlaskaFan on Dec 17, 2007 5:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Disagree...

...with the conclusions you've come to. First off there is a true belief that HGH helps eyesight. Further the increase in bat speed allows players an extra split second to wait and decide whether or not to swing.

As to you not believing that they make you heal faster, every professional who deals with this stuff, whether its those who make the stuff, those who distribute it or those who study it attest that it allows for faster healing and recovery. The fact that you're "not sure" shows that you have made up your mind and are not willing to explore otherwise.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 17, 2007 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your all wrong

PED's can absolutely make you wait longer on a pitch. If you are stronger, you have greater bat speed, which lets you wait a split second longer to swing. If I am not mistaken, strength equates to bat speed and that makes the ball go nice and far.

On vision, there are some scientists that think eye site is enhanced. If you are stronger, you can snap off a better breaking ball and make your breaking ball more effective by having a better fastball.

Hell, just make all this stuff legal, than no one will have to worry about getting caught. We can then continue the "video game" brand of baseball we have seen for the last 10 years. No one likes those boring 2-1 games anyway when the players have to play good fundemental baseball and the manager actually has to think his way through the game.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2007 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly What to PEDs Do?

I read the replies with interest. I understand that some players apparently believe PEDs improve vision and reflexes. But there is no evidence for either one. By the time you are in your late teens, you have all the rods and cones in your eyeballs that you are ever going to have; your eyeballs aren't going to get bigger or the lenses more transparent. You aren't going to grow any more neurons to help your reflexes.

Isn't it pretty clear that, apart from strength, most of the supposed performance enhancement is in the player's head? I don't mean to understate how important that can be. But isn't there a good argument that, except for strength, it's a placebo effect?

And if PEDs, and HGHs in particular, make you heal faster, wouldn't they be prescribed lawfully for folks trying to heal? There's no lack of greed . . . er... capitalist incentive in the pharmacy industry. If HGHs speeded the healing process, there's be 10 petitions before the Federal Trade Commission right now.

How many of MLB players paid money for alleged PEDs and got placebos, and still saw their stats improve?

by AlaskaFan on Dec 18, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Warning, This is Off Topic...

but it's not diary worthy, and there's really nowhere else to post it. And I do tie this in with baseball and the Cubs later.

Did anybody see Brian Westbrook take a knee on the one instead of scoring a touchdown yesterday against the Cowboys? I don't think I've ever seen an athlete do anything close to this. His team is 6-8 and not in a playoff chase, and yet instead of padding his individual stats and giving the Cowboys a chance (granted, a slim chance at that) to come back and win the game, he insured his team a victory. And he's second in the league in touchdowns. There aren't many players who would do that. It turns out his offensive tackle Jon Runyan was yelling at him to not score, but he could have just ignored Runyan.

Which leads me back to baseball and the Cubs. And I'm not trying to start a heated conversation, but a lot has been said in the last few months about the value of certain players who might not have the greatest statistics. Al referred to it as intangibles. But this is exactly why I feel players like this are important for any sports team. Always being in the game, knowing the situation, what is best to put your team in a position to win, sacrificing personal glory for the sake of the team. You can't measure this with stats (as wonderful as they are).

So my hats off to Brian Westbrook and Jon Runyan. At least for today they restored my faith in professional athletes.

by markleonette on Dec 17, 2007 7:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Loud, sustained applause.

I saw Westbrook do that, too, and at first I couldn't figure out why he did it -- and then I realized, since I hadn't been watching that closely, that Dallas had no timeouts left, and by doing so, he clinched the win for the Eagles.

Smart, smart play.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I propose that we invent a new statistic then

In an effort to placate all you sabermatricians (sp?) out there, from here forward, when someone pulls a move like that that ensures his team a victory, we call it "Games Saved By Being An Intelligent Tangible Player" or GSBBAITP for short.

Next year I will be founding a Fantasy Football league that gives points for GSBBAITP and Brian Westbrook will be my #1 pick.

Whew, I feel better already.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 18, 2007 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lineup

good mailbag on mlb.com about the lineup. story below. why wouldn't they hit Fuku second, though?

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/17/cubs-notes-language-lesson/

by em3 on Dec 17, 2007 8:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think they will.

Consider the source -- Muskat's mailbag. I doubt you'd see Fukudome hitting fifth.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2007 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, with Pie

hitting a boyant .237 now in the Winter leagues, it is not a slam dunk that a. he will not be traded, or b. that Sam Fuld, should he continue to hit, become the starting CF.

I know Pie is still young, but he has not been able to hit MLB hitting yet. It is very troubling folks. You may tell me that he he .800 in AAA - but that don't amount to a hill of beans if he can't hit against NL hitting.

R.I.P. 2007 Bears. What a crappy football team.

How about another personal foul penalty on a sideline play , boys?

Yuch...

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 17, 2007 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pie is on the "untouchable" list...

I will be shocked if he's traded. The team is just too tied to his success to give up now. The list of successful hitters who didn't hit MLB pitching in their first year or two is pretty long, especially when that first year was at 22-23.

If he struggles next year, we may see a trade. But I'd be very surprised if Pie is not the opening day CF for the Chicago Cubs next year.

by SouthernCub on Dec 18, 2007 7:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see how

the Cubs can have an "untouchable" list going on 100 years without a championship. This team has a short window to win now, and if you need to trade Pie (who may never pan out), you do it, if he gets a player who puts you over the top.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 18, 2007 8:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But how do you guarantee that?

Is there really ONE player out there who you can say would GUARANTEE a championship, if acquired?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2007 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing is guaranteed

just as no one knows whether Pie will ever be a solid major league player. If I can add a top 3 starter or another position player (Roberts) with Pie as part of the package, I have to think long and hard before I say he is untouchable.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 18, 2007 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For a #1 or #2 starter...

... such as Bedard, I MIGHT do that.

But not for Roberts.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

MNF & the Bears

Tony Korn-hole is the most obnoxious, annoying, irritating dumbass motherfucker I've ever heard on monday night football. I can't believe that stupid fuckhead is allowed on that espn team. ridiculous! It's bad enough without him, but jesus, get rid of that fucker ASAP!!

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Dec 17, 2007 10:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Whoa!

easy milk-squirter.

Don't take out your frustrations from the shitty Bears team on this guy.

The Bears are back to "em-bearassing" right now, unfortunately.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 17, 2007 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

nothing to do with the bears. I've ALWAYS hated tony korn-hole-hiser. What a smug asshole son of a bitch who doesn't know shit. I'd rather have dennis fucking miller, as bad as he was, and that's saying something! If I met that shit-head on the street I would spit and piss on his face! lol

ahem, I mean it.

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Dec 17, 2007 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Kornheiser

n/t

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Dec 17, 2007 11:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nah

seriously?

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Dec 17, 2007 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He is very grating...

but NEVER Dennis Miller. EVER again!

Actually, there was on funny and pathetic little bit on a "credit roll" displaying the 30+ Bears quarterbacks during the last several years.

I HAD to laugh at that. Peter Tom Willis! Moses Moreno? Cade? Cordell "The Savior" Stewart. Jim Miller, Steve Stenstrom, on and on and on...

- sigh -

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 17, 2007 10:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I hate them both

not in a violent way, lol. but many have to agree that with those 2 guys in the booth over the years, NFL night games have been REALLY annoying, and I can't stand it anymore.

sorry if I violated the "community guidelines" Al, and I'm sure I did. You should let us speak as we wish. let's hear it! fuck yeah!

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Dec 17, 2007 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, you kinda did.

And you could have made your point just as well without the profanity.

Speak as you wish? I'll say this again: this is my site. I have a few simple rules that aren't hard to follow, and the overwhelming majority of people here do so. Thanks in advance for keeping the profanity down.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2007 4:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh.. come ON

Profanity is fun! try it! It's a nice venting tool! Ok, maybe I crossed the line when I said I would urinated on his face, ha! I would never do that... and how realistic is it? I was speaking metaphorically ;))

carry on..

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Dec 18, 2007 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You want to vent with profanity...

... do it somewhere else.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 19, 2007 4:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

okie-dokie

I will think about it but no guarantees Allan

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Dec 19, 2007 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rosenthal Rumors

Some good tidbits in here today. Nothing major, but updates on Bedard, Haren, etc.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/19/ken-rosenthal-wisdom/

by ET90210 on Dec 19, 2007 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

A couple of interesting points

as it relates to the Cubs and possible trades.

First, the O's are supposedly unimpressed with the Bedard offers. As I said before if the Cubs get Bedard, it's going to hurt and hurt a lot. Some of the trades proposed here are nowhere near enough.

Second, there is at least one GM who thinks the A's got 5 major league regulars in the Haren deal. Bedard is better than Haren so how many is he worth?

by rlpete on Dec 19, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs