Wednesday Afternoon Stuff You May Have Missed

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2007 3:40 PM CST in Chicago Cubs News

Here are a few notes from today that are either pertinent to the Cubs, interesting, or just plain weird:

Jose Guillen may be suspended for HGH use:

The Major League Baseball Players Association is negotiating with MLB officials on a possible 10- to 15-day suspension for outfielder Jose Guillen for his reported involvement in the purchase of steroids and human growth hormone, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney on Wednesday.

The San Francisco Chronicle reported last month that Guillen bought nearly $20,000 worth of steroids and human growth hormone from 2003 through 2005.

COMMENT: Well, the Royals, who just signed Guillen to a 3/36 contract, should have had an idea. Guillen's been a loose cannon almost
his whole ML career -- why else would a guy with this much talent be going on his ninth team in his eleventh season?

Got an incentive clause in your contract for a postseason award? Better get it by 2012:

Baseball players no longer would receive bonuses for winning the Most Valuable Player, Cy Young or rookie awards bestowed by the Baseball Writers' Association of America under a rule passed Wednesday.

Starting in 2013, players with such bonus clauses in their contracts will be banned from receiving votes for any BBWAA awards. Hall of Fame voting is not affected, nor are manager of the year or non-BBWAA awards such as the World Series MVP or Gold Glove.

"When we first started giving out these awards it was just to honor somebody. You got a trophy, there was no monetary reward that went with it," BBWAA secretary-treasurer Jack O'Connell said. "I honestly don't think people vote with that in mind. But the attachment of a bonus to these awards creates a perception that we're trying to make these guys rich."

The vote was 41-21 on the rule, which was brought up by The Associated Press several years ago. The BBWAA appointed a committee to discuss the rule with the commissioner's office and the players' association.

COMMENT: Good, again. Like these guys need MORE money to be incented to do well.

In this article, which someone else posted in one of the comments (sorry, I can't find it now!) mostly to point out that it says that "It's probably good news for Reds fans that Willis wasn't acquired. Baker surely would have overused Willis and ruined his career, like he did to Mark Prior and Kerry Wood", it also says:

The Reds released Jorge Cantu. Kind of a surprise here in that Cincy could have platooned Cantu (righty) and Joey Votto (lefty) at first base and traded Scott Hatteberg. Then again, Cantu's terrible. Remember when MLB advertised him as one of the stars heading into the World Baseball Classic alongside Ichiro, Clemens and Pujols? I remember thinking to myself, "Allllllllriiiiiight."

COMMENT: The Cubs have had interest in Cantu before; he actually hit fairly well (.298/.382/.491) in a small-sample-size 57 at-bats for the Reds late last year. He'll turn 26 in January and can play multiple positions. I say he'd be worth a minor-league invite.

Finally, I call your attention to this diary, in which the diary poster found a site which declared that the Mets had traded for Scott Kazmir. It was clearly a fake site, made to look like a MLB.com page.

I ask that all of you go look at the BCB site note diary I posted this morning. In it, several posters mentioned that it seems as if people are trying to be "the first" with news, trying to scoop everyone else; as I noted in the Kazmir fake trade diary, great Chicago journalist Mike Royko used to always quote the old Chicago City News Bureau motto: "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."

Truer words have never been spoken. If you find something that seems too good to be true, or too odd to be true, it probably is. Before you breathlessly post a diary with potentially wrong information, check it out with a couple of other online sources first.

Thanks. Try to enjoy the rest of the winter meetings and stop hyperventilating.

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Comments

With the interest of minimizing diaries in mind...

...I noticed something on the cubs.com messageboard. A member noticed a chat session with Will Carrol that included the following line: "BREAKING -- looks like Fukudome will decide today. Someone made a big offer. My guess? Cubs."

The full text of the chat session can be found here: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/story/2007/12/5/164015/247#commenttop

Your best bet is to search for the word "breaking;" it should be the second occurrence.

My apologies if this has already been posted, or is an unwelcoming addition to the ad nauseam Fukudome discussion. I don't know about anybody else, but I'll just be relieved to know he's made a decision.

by Flatley on Dec 5, 2007 5:06 PM CST reply actions

Also...

Apologies if this is exactly what you wanted to avoid. I respect your page quite a bit, Al, and I certainly don't mean to upstage your messages.

by Flatley on Dec 5, 2007 5:08 PM CST up reply actions

Finally...

...it looks like I pasted the wrong hyperlink.

http://baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=390

by Flatley on Dec 5, 2007 5:09 PM CST up reply actions

There's already a diary about this.

This one.

Sigh. That was exactly my point. Oh, well.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions

Sorry, Al.

I'd delete my posts if I could.

by Flatley on Dec 5, 2007 5:39 PM CST up reply actions

Can you...

...post a diary that just points to another diary because you thought it was a good read?

Just kiddin.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 5, 2007 5:20 PM CST reply actions

According to the

Baltimore Sun. The Cubs and O's are in trade talks about second baseman Brian Roberts. Reports are that the cubs would be departing with 2 players.

http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3283

I Read this on Rotoworld. Take it as you will. I just find my self wondering witch players they would give up and if id be ok with it.

I Dont know if im giving up Pie for roberts. Hell I dont even know if Id trade rich hill and E-patt. Thank God im not a GM.

But I do like Brian Roberts, And i think he would be a good fit here.

by Kchance on Dec 5, 2007 6:11 PM CST reply actions

I was

going to make this a diary but with all the diary babys mama drama goin on. I thought this would be a good place to show you guys and girls what I read. And if AL wants to update it into his post he can. If not then oh well. Take it for whats its worth. But I would like opioions on who they think would go for him.

by Kchance on Dec 5, 2007 6:14 PM CST up reply actions

I think Gallagher would be a good guess

The Cubs can't afford to give up Hill too. Pie wouldn't surprise me. That way Fukudome plays CF and DeRosa RF/supersub.

by rlpete on Dec 5, 2007 6:25 PM CST up reply actions

Link

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-roberts1205,0,2777882.story?coll=bal_sports_mezz

This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by HectorVillanueva on Dec 5, 2007 6:38 PM CST up reply actions

Also

I may just jump up and down and wet my pants with joy if we got Brian Roberts.

This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by HectorVillanueva on Dec 5, 2007 6:40 PM CST up reply actions

I like Roberts

but I'm struggling to see how he fits into the "plan" right now. Second base isn't nearly as much of a problem as the OF or SS, and he isn't really a competent SS. He has played 51 games there in his ML career with 14 errors good for a .939 FLD PCTG, not really so great.

I'm struggling with the idea of picking him up, although I really do think he would be a nice addition to the lineup.

In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Dec 5, 2007 6:56 PM CST up reply actions

Newest on Roberts

8:45 p.m., from Steve Phillips
* The Cubs and Orioles have discussed a Brian Roberts trade. Baltimore would get Rich Hill and Sean Marshall for the second baseman.

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Dec 5, 2007 7:55 PM CST up reply actions

I say no way. Not for Hill.

n/t

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Dec 5, 2007 7:57 PM CST up reply actions

The good news is...

...Steve Phillips is rarely right.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 5, 2007 7:58 PM CST up reply actions

Phillips had the Jason Kendall trade

wrong last year, even AFTER it was announced. I have serious doubts abouts his "sources." I think he mixes his "sauces" with his sources. :-)

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Dec 5, 2007 8:03 PM CST up reply actions

Cubs/O's

Roberts is good but I doubt this trade will come to pass.

Roberts wouldn't be filling the Cubs' biggest hole (if it's a hole at all).
Trading Hill creates a bigger hole in the rotation, one that's more difficult and expensive to fill than 2B.
Considering the hypothetical hole created in the rotation, trading Hill AND Marshall for Roberts seems terribly excessive.

The O's might ask for both Hill and Marshall but I wouldn't go anywhere near that.

by Copter OBob on Dec 6, 2007 8:32 AM CST up reply actions

agreed

I love the idea of having Roberts on the team, but not at the expense of Rich Hill. Plug a non-hole by opening a huge new hole, that doesn't make sense. Marshall and Galagher, though, I'd do it in a heart beat. I know Galagher has a high ceiling, but he's an unknown - we didn't pull the trigger on Prior for Tejada a few years ago because "Prior's future was too bright." The only thing bright about Prior's future now is the sunshine in San Diego or the light above the operating table if he pitches for Dusty again.

This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by HectorVillanueva on Dec 6, 2007 9:18 AM CST up reply actions

MLBtraderumors

is saying the Cubs are "aggressively" pursuing Brian Roberts.

It would cost us Rich Hill or Sean Gallagher (or maybe both) but I really like the idea of going after Roberts. He's exactly the type of guy we need. Unfortunately, I don't know what we would do with DeRosa in such a situation, especially if we sign Fukudome.

I suppose we could try him at shortstop, but that's really hurting our defense. Using him as a "supersub" wouldn't get him enough ABs, IMO, unless Pie tanks and Fukudome moves to center.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 5, 2007 6:15 PM CST reply actions

guess you didnt see my post right above yours.

by Kchance on Dec 5, 2007 6:24 PM CST up reply actions

Considering

that my post was four minutes after yours and I almost certainly took more than four minutes writing it, your comment wasn't there when I posted mine.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 5, 2007 7:57 PM CST up reply actions

ok

all i wanted to know.. thanx

by Kchance on Dec 5, 2007 9:02 PM CST up reply actions

Definitely a valuable player for us...

but is he worth more to us than Rich Hill as a #3 starter or Sean Gallagher as the potential #5 starter? Or BOTH?

He's a marginal upgrade over having DeRosa start everyday at 2B (an upgrade, but not addressing a huge need). And getting him at the expense of our rotation (which has 3 pretty good pitchers, one potentially pretty good pitcher, and a bunch of questions) seems questionable.

If Roberts were a free agent, I'd be all for getting him. But he doesn't greatly improve our lineup by replacing DeRosa, and it would greatly hurt our rotation.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2007 8:52 PM CST up reply actions

Al........

I honestly think the new rule on incentives is a huge joke.

Why begrudge the players for getting what they can? I know it is on a MUCH larger scale, but it is no different than performance bonuses that workers receive everyday.

I wonder if any of the writers receive incentives for winning an award? If so, I hope their bosses eliminate them as well.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 5, 2007 7:03 PM CST reply actions

It's a conflict of interest

for the writers. It has nothing to do with them not wanting to reward the players. It's that they have to vote on the people they have to cover and if a player has money riding on how they vote, then voters fear the player might retaliate by not talking to them if they don't vote them high enough.

This is almost certainly the result of the two Detroit writers voting Magglio Ordonez over Alex Rodriguez for MVP. While Ordonez certainly had a great season, there is pretty much no objective way you can argue he was "more valuable" than ARod, especially since the Yankees made the playoffs and the Tigers didn't. But there was a lot of comment that the Detroit writers didn't want to cost Ordonez his $200k bonus for finishing second in the balloting and that's why they voted him #1.

This is also why more and more newspapers are simply not permitting their writers to vote in these elections. It's also a great argument for finding a new group of voters.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 5, 2007 8:04 PM CST up reply actions

Precisely.

Now, they could do this if the bonuses weren't made public until after the voting. But the reality is, they're well known, and I think the BBWAA has the right idea here.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2007 9:52 PM CST up reply actions

The larger issue is that the CBA...

...restricts teams from offering incentives based on on-field performance. So teams have been using these awards as a proxy for rewarding the actual achievements of players. Innings/appearances/plate appearances is pretty much the only basis for incentives left after this -- which works alright for one-year fliers with incentives, I guess, but something is going to have to give here.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 5, 2007 9:57 PM CST up reply actions

Clarify

Cwyers, I haven't read the CBA so I'd like a little clarification that maybe you can provide. How does the CBA define "on-field performance?" Is it strictly what the player has some control over (e.g. batting average, home runs, RBI) and would it include a statistic like total chances where a player could, hypothetically, go all season without a chance?

I'd also like to know when this restriction was implemented.

by Copter OBob on Dec 6, 2007 8:43 AM CST up reply actions

You can get incentives...

...based on at-bats/plate appearances as a position player (or innings played defensively, I suppose), innings pitched if you're a starting pitcher, or appearances if you're a reliever. You can also get incentive bonuses for saves recorded. I think you can also get bonuses for wins as a pitcher.

You can't, however, get incentives for things like home runs, RBIs, batting average, walks, ERA, strikeouts, etc. Why? I have no earthly idea.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 6, 2007 9:32 AM CST up reply actions

Incentives

I suppose one argument against incentives for taters, ribeyes, walks, strikeouts, etc. is that a team wants its players to do what is best for the team. Swinging for the fences or trying to keep a hitter from putting the ball in play is often detrimental to the team's needs. Allowing a bonus for wins is just as dicey as the other categories. I'd think a manager would want his starting pitcher's honest assessment rather than a pitcher insisting he's still "got something left in the tank" so he can have a chance at a win. Additionally, how frequently a player gets into a save situation or gets to the plate is largely outside the player's control so other than setting payment milestones for the injury prone, the word "incentive" is misused. These guidelines seem arbitrary and potentially counterproductive.

Without knowing more, I favor freeing the contract. Let teams and players contract however they want within their basic labor agreement. If a slugger gets a big payday for hitting 40 dingers that's fine but the manager might not give him the opportunity if the slugger consistently and selfishly swings away when it's inappropriate.

by Copter OBob on Dec 6, 2007 11:20 AM CST up reply actions

The BBWAA

is a joke Al. If their members can't put aside their feelings and vote their conscious, they should lose the right to vote for these awards.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 6, 2007 6:52 AM CST up reply actions

Not your....

original point Al, but okay.....

The whole "why give them more money" thing is tiring. These players have a skill few have. They should be compensated at the market rate. If the owners decide to offer/ approve these incentives I say let them get paid.....

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 6, 2007 7:05 AM CST up reply actions

Agree....

with finding a new group of voters.

If the writers can not be objective, they should not vote. Don't penalize the players for their inability to vote their conscious.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 6, 2007 6:50 AM CST up reply actions

incentives

I think this is really outrageous. If the Cubs want to give Z a 500k bonus for finishing at the top of the Cy Young then this is 100% acceptable, stupid on the Cubs part because Z is a damn good pitcher. If the Cubs wanted to give Kerry Wood a 2m bonus for winning the Cy Young (2008 and onward) then this is a bonus and incentive which would be highly unexpected and show great improvement and be an added reward for Wood's performance. This would be a great incentive f
or the Cubs to offer and one everyone on this sight would happy to be paid out if it happened.
The other side of this is a pitcher being on a mid level contract with no performance/incentive bonus and having a great season and then the home team is expected to dole out a ton of cash to resign said player. Instead the player having one good year expects (rightly so) to get paid through arbitration or salary increases.

If major league teams are only going to give incentive bonus' to top flight players who are almost always going to merit them then thats an issue with management and agents. If I was a dumb rookie I'd get my agent to ask for every possible incentive pay I could get and if I was a manager i'd be happy to give them!

"You would never guess that a little innocent walk like that could lead to two runs" -- Dusty Baker

by KyCubsFan on Dec 6, 2007 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

I ws just listening to WGN AM

and Kaplan said that he has heard that the Cubs are in pursuit of Roberts to play 2b, Fukudome to play RF, and Chone Figgins to play CF.

That's interesting if true as that would mean the Cubs may not value Pie as highly as we had thought, they are trying to win it all THIS YEAR, and Soriano will move down the lineup. One wouldn't bring in Roberts and Figgins to be anything other than top of the order guys.

If they get those 3, add a top of the rotation starter by using Pie as bait, you've got the best team in the NL.

by NO100 on Dec 5, 2007 7:39 PM CST reply actions

Hmmm

That seems to be some very wishful thinking to me

I Love You Kerry Wood!!!!

by cubbiematt12 on Dec 5, 2007 8:57 PM CST reply actions

Even newer on Roberts

10:03 p.m., from Amy Nelson
* If Brian Roberts is traded to the Cubs, it's believed that it might not happen until the Orioles complete a trade for either Erik Bedard or Miguel Tejada. According to a source with knowledge of Baltimore's trade talks, the O's have had so much interest in many of their players they "have a lot on their table." But the relationship between Andy McPhail and Cubs GM Jim Hendry dates back several years so if a trade were to happen, it could possibly be much faster compared to other clubs. Rich Hill, originally thought to be part of a deal, is currently not in the discussions. Instead, Chicago likely would send upper-level prospects to Baltimore. Among the names being considered are Sean Marshall, Sean Gallagher, Felix Pie and Donnie Veal .

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Dec 5, 2007 9:13 PM CST reply actions

I like that much better!

MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 5, 2007 9:29 PM CST up reply actions

Baker and Prior

Haha...another great dusty baker ruining in this article. Prior must be furious that he may end up with the Reds:

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/05/reds-interested-in-prior/

by em3 on Dec 5, 2007 9:38 PM CST reply actions

Pie update

In today's game Pie was 0-4 with 3Ks. His swings and misses brought back very ugly memories. One suggestion: why not choke on the bat? For a guy of his speed sacrificing power to get more bat control seems like a good idea to me.

Luis

by Luis on Dec 5, 2007 10:37 PM CST reply actions

His overall batting line with Licey...

...is .238/.306/.386.

I suppose you could look at the batting average and say the whole line looks awful. But if you figure the batting average component could be due to any number of things, the walk rate and power are both healthy, if not spectacular. He has ten walks to twenty-four strikeouts.

The larger point is... if you can put up sixty points of on-base percentage with only ten walks, you're talking a very limited sample size.

Were you at the game, or did you catch it on cable/satellite?

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 5, 2007 10:48 PM CST up reply actions

TV

I watched the game on TV. Numbers aside, the scary thing is his swing and the grand-canyon sized holes in it. I know people don't want to hear it, but the more I see him, the more I see CPat.

Luis

by Luis on Dec 5, 2007 11:07 PM CST up reply actions

Where on TV are you getting Licey games?

I would love to watch some actual baseball.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 5, 2007 11:13 PM CST up reply actions

Local TV

I'm from the Dominican ;)

by Luis on Dec 5, 2007 11:17 PM CST up reply actions

Once

the Baseball Channel gets off the ground in 2009, I'm hoping we get all these winter league games on TV.

That's #1 on my wish list for TBC. #2 is an NPB game (on tape delay, of course) every week. #3 is minor league games.

Unfortunately, #3 is the most likely of the three to come true and the rest of the programming is likely to be 15 hours a day of their version of "Baseball Tonight." And they'll have good old Harold Reynolds hosting it.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 6, 2007 2:08 AM CST up reply actions

Supposedly...

... if you buy the MLB.com offseason package you will get some winter league games, although it doesn't specifically say so on that page.

It's kind of late to sign up for this reason, but you will also get coverage of the Rule V draft if you sign up today. It also includes some spring training telecasts.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 6, 2007 9:53 AM CST up reply actions

Please see my post

in the "Padres Pursue Fukudome" diary. Perhaps this will cool some of this hysteria.

Thank You.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 5, 2007 10:53 PM CST reply actions

Regarding Guillen's suspension

Do players forfeit their prorated salary for games missed due to suspension? Frankly, missing 10-15 games is a drop in the bucket for a middle-of-the-order hitter. It's not like you can guarantee somebody else you sign isn't going to foul a ball off their foot and miss just as much time.

Free the upper deck!

by cubzfan on Dec 6, 2007 8:03 AM CST reply actions