Brian Roberts over K Fukudome

by roscoevillage on Dec 7, 2007 1:21 AM CST Comment 37 comments

I'm trying to figure out who is the Cubs #1 priority now.

Roberts has proven that he can hit MLB pitching. A lot of imports have struggled in their first year. If both are available, who do you want?

I understand that the Cubs only get Roberts if they give up something. But, at this point, I believe that Roberts will add more to the '08 Cubs than Fukudome will. The Orioles are looking to rebuild, so lets send them some prospects. 100 years is a disgrace, lets end this now!

They don't play the same positions, but Derosa could be moved to RF. Roberts switch-hits, so he meets Lou's lefty criteria.

I'm not saying lets not get both, but if I had to choose, I'd pick Roberts over Fukudome.

Comments?

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Fukudome

It doesn't cost anything to get Fukudome, it costs everything to get Roberts.

Think of it as a game of whack-a-mole. Right now all of the moles are covered except for RF. If we sign Fukudome, everything is covered.

No. 1-No. 5 starter, shutdown guys in the pen, LOOGY, long relief, all 8 position players, solid pinch hitter from both sides, etc.

The only real potential problem is DeRosa, Cedeno/Theriot, Fontenot, and Patterson represent a cluster*&^^ for our MI. Sure, you solve it by trading for Roberts. To get Roberts though, you take the cover off of other moles and pretty soon you realize you were better off with him than without him.

I have yet to hear of a trade for Roberts that gets rid of more problems than it creates. Until then, Fukudome should be No. 1 priority even though the two aren't mutual exclusive.

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 7, 2007 1:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not too many

So many people write about how the Cubs have too many middle infielders. But they only have two players who can handle shortstop, the same number as most teams. They don't believe Patterson can play second with adequate defense, and with Pie, EPatt might as well not be on the roster. The team is willing to be surprised again by Fontenot, but have made no commitment to playing him in the future or even keeping him on the club. All of the guys you list except DeRosa are pretty much the definition of replacement-level player. The good thing is that they are all young and came up through the system (OK, not Fontenot), and you need some cheap, replacement-level players on a squad. But that shouldn't keep you from trying to improve. Any of them could easily be dumped with little fear that they would excel for someone else.

Free the upper deck!

by zambranofan on Dec 7, 2007 7:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't cost "everything".....

Eric Patterson, Sean Marshall, Felix Pie.......that might be too much....but if they come up with a package to get Bedard too......baby, you've got a stew goin'!

Trade Pie NOW! While he still has value!!! Before he turns into Corey Patterson II.

Super Mario Galaxy! Get it NOW!

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 7, 2007 7:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't cost anything?

Just in the neighborhood of $12 to $15 million per. That's nothing.

Especially when you consider ownership uncertainty and that he could be a bust. I like his chances better than I would a pitcher's, but it's possible.

All that said, I say get Fukudome. He's the best option out there given our current needs.

by JDay on Dec 7, 2007 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I love the whole

"Lets send them some prospects" talk.

Which prospects? What are the needs of the Baltimore system and how do those prospects meet them? You have to remember it's not just a matter of throwing unnamed "prospects" at the Orioles. It's finding prospects that we have that the Orioles need and want.

This is a problem. Reportedly, the Orioles want to trade Tejada and Bedard and see what they get for them first before trading Roberts. Andy MacPhail, so I've read, decided that the Orioles were a terrible ballclub and that the only way to rebuild is to blow the team up and start over. That's why they're thinking of trading Roberts. But they don't need to trade him for any salary reasons. By the time the Orioles get around to trading Roberts, Fukudome will be gone.

Secondly, this really isn't an either/or proposition. In what way does signing Fukudome prevent us from getting Brian Roberts?

Roberts is a fine ballplayer, but we already have a second baseman. We need a right fielder. Yes, our current second baseman can play right field as can Matt Murton, but only Fukudome can move in to center field if Felix Pie struggles again.

I honestly just reject the premise of your post. I want the Cubs to sign Fukudome as a free agent. Then I want to Cubs to approach the Orioles and see what it would take to get Roberts. If the Roberts deal makes sense on it's own merits (and it might not, as Roberts is a Peter Angelos favorite player and he's been known to interfere with his favorites), then I want to get Roberts. There is no need to pit one against the other.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Dec 7, 2007 2:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

today's papers

I don't know if this is what the diarist had in mind, but an article in today's Trib makes it sound implicitly like an either/or proposition.

I'm with you, of course--just grab them both.

But the paper makes it sound like its a gamble to go after Fukudome and risk losing Roberts in the meantime:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-071206cubs,1,2481331.story?coll=cs-h ome-headlines

NOT saying I agree with that, but in fairness to the poster, the idea is already out there.

peace,
hoosiercubbie

by hoosiercubbie on Dec 7, 2007 4:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the author is mistaken...

into Hendry's gameplan. It would not appear from reports (I of course have no more idea than he does) that Hendry is very actively pursuing BOTH players simultaneously. I don't think he's waiting for a Fukudome decision before going after Roberts. I think the reason a deal for Roberts hasn't been done yet has nothing to do with Fukudome. I think the fallback discussion by Hendry has more to do with OF options, not Roberts.

The two are independent decisions. Hendry has to decide if Roberts is worth the cost in prospects (and find the right package of prospects to begin with), and he has to wait until Fukudome is ready to sign.

by SouthernCub on Dec 7, 2007 7:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"Hendry has to decide..."

Another thing Hendry has to do before he can trade for Roberts is come to an agreement with the Orioles. It has been widely reported that MacPhail wants to deal with the Bedard and Tejada situations before Roberts. Hendry can't necessarily make them agree now just because he wants to get something done.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 7, 2007 7:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

that was part of what I meant with the part about finding the right prospects to begin with. But your additional point is key, too. If MacPhail isn't moving Roberts until after he moves Bedard and Tejada, then Hendry first has to wait until MacPhail is ready, then has to come up with the right package, and then has to decide if the package is worthwhile for the Cubs.

There is just no reason to believe that the Fukudome situation is in any way affecting the Roberts talks.

by SouthernCub on Dec 7, 2007 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Reason to Believe

Of course the Fukudome situation is affecting the Roberts deal.

If we can imagine the Cubs having about 40 "dollars" in prospects to spend ("dollars" representing the trade value of various pieces in the farm system Hendry is willing to let go), then Roberts is likely to take a significant portion of that budget - let's say 20 dollars. If Fukudome comes over, that's no problem, because with both the lefty RF and the lefty/speedy middle IF acquired, Hendry's shopping list appears to be done.

On the other hand, if Fukudome stays in Japan, and you've already spent half your "dollars" on a player for a position where you already have a good player, you're going to be kicking yourself when your next best RF target costs 30 "dollars."

I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry and McPhail left the meetings with a potential agreement in place and McPhail said, "Wait and see what Fukudome is doing," and Hendry said, "See if you can get a better price from someone else."

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 7, 2007 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right Field

Can't Angel Pagan be the regular RF? He's a good switch-hitter?

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Dec 7, 2007 6:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

No, he's not

He's barely adequate from the left side, really bad from the right side, and has been hampered by colitis. Even if he were a better player, you couldn't count on him being able to play every day.

Pagan will compete with Sam Fuld to be the fourth or fifth outfielder, at best.

Free the upper deck!

by zambranofan on Dec 7, 2007 7:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

And further, Mark DeRosa can play right field, on occasion. But I wouldn't want to see him out there every day.

I'm still strongly in the Fukudome camp.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 7, 2007 7:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is Cubs Management Philosophy 101....

right out of 1995, and the author of the textbook, is Dr. Andy McFail, Esquire. A pre-requisite course for Corporate Sports Ownership 165, required for Sports Management majors. (Three sections of this class, taught by Dr. McFail, Dr. Stan Cook, and Dr. Don Grenesko).

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Dec 7, 2007 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also on

MLB trade rumors have the Padres has a strong contender for Fukudome. Cubs will most likely offer the most money it just depends were Fukudome wants to play.
Personally I would like them both, just don't give up to many chips to get Roberts. Orioles need a shake up, this could be a good time to get Roberts.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Dec 7, 2007 6:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand how

the Padres have been widely reported to have made an offer to Fukudome, when the Cubs keep saying they're waiting for him to first say whether he's coming to the US before they can even talk to him.

Either the Cubs are being very discreet, respectful, and savvy, or else that's just a smokescreen to cover up intense negotiations.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 7, 2007 8:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've been wondering about this, too

Either the Cubs have made an offer or the Padres have been disrespectful in the Cubs' viewpoint. I think the former seems more likely.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 7, 2007 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

... I think the latter is more likely. If the Cubs HAVE made an offer, you can bet it's been done more discreetly than Sandy Alderson going on sports talk radio in San Diego.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 7, 2007 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree Al

and I am still surprised at the way Towers talked openly about Prior in previous quotes. Very few GM's are going to be quoted like that in regards to a player they may or even may not be seeking.

One thing about Hendry, he is a people person and he knows how to work with folks. This is why his strength is signing FA's, keeping his own players and making some good trades. Other GM's and agents like dealing with him because he is respectful and doesn't BS them to death.

When you look at Kenny Williams, I think this is what hurts him, because the guy has a chronic chip on his shoulder.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 7, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The whole White Sox organization...

... walks around with that chip. They lost it briefly when they won the WS, but seem to have gotten it back again in a big hurry.

I'm guessing Kenny Williams will survive, but Ozzie Guillen won't.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 7, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Things sure ain't lookin

too good on the south side. If this year is as bad as it could be for them, it will be interesting to see what Reinsdorf does. IMO, Kenny hasn't exactly knocked the ball out of the park in regards to developing talent (not unlike Hendry) and he tends to make some goofy decisions. I tend to think he has hurt the club far more than Guillen, but thats just me.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 7, 2007 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I also think Fuku

is our priority. That is a hole that needs filling now and he is the best option.

Roberts would be great but we have options if we don;t get him. I see no good alternatives if we lose out on KFuk.

MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 7, 2007 8:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Roberts

The deal fell through or at least the hot stove reports on ESPN.com say it did, but I would take Fukudome over Roberts.

Larry Rothschild= Bad Pitching Coach

by number1cubfan on Dec 7, 2007 8:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe they've changed their slant

on the deal, but now it says that it's being put on hold while they try to work a deal to move Tejada, but there's still mutual interest on both sides.

by davidalanu on Dec 7, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Get 'Em Both

McFAIL is likely sitting on a standing offer from Hendry.

Don't lost sight of this fact -- several teams that Hendry was working with were working on higher priority items. I read that to mean that they will talk with Hendry when the time was right.

Hendry said he felt that the groundwork for their offseason plan has been set, re-inforced during the Winter Meetings, and now just needs to be executed upon.

Let's get them both.

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 7, 2007 10:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

Let's put a strangle-hold on this weak division and go into spring training stacked at every position. You already know they are going to try to break the bank on Fukudome, and I'd be willing to bet that they could get Roberts with the trait bait they currently have.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Dec 7, 2007 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I meant "TRADE bait", of course.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Dec 7, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

get both!

i say get both and use de rosa and prospects for another starter or a ss!!

by cubz409 on Dec 7, 2007 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Update on Roberts

Gallagher and Colvin to land Roberts? Sounds cheap.

From MLBTR:

"The Orioles want to figure out their plans with Erik Bedard and Miguel Tejada before making a move with Brian Roberts, so talks with the Cubs have cooled. The O's want Sean Gallagher and a outfield prospect, but not Matt Murton. Could 22 year-old Tyler Colvin be involved? Felix Pie is said to be off-limits. Colvin has drawn Steve Finley/Shawn Green comparisons from Baseball America."

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 7, 2007 1:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If by cheap you mean stupid and irresponsible.

n/t

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 7, 2007 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Colvin

that's pure speculation on MLBtraderumors part. That comment on Colvin is not in the article they cite. I don't believe that it is accurate.

I'd give up Gallagher for Roberts or I'd give up Colvin for Roberts, but there's no way I give up both for Roberts.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Dec 7, 2007 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Debatable on cheap...

and irrelevant because it's purely speculation by the guy at MLBtraderumors. There is nothing suggesting that this idea has ever been discussed by Hendry and MacPhail.

by SouthernCub on Dec 7, 2007 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

do it!

gallagher and colvin for roberts!!do it before they change their minds!!

by cubz409 on Dec 7, 2007 2:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Anyone else think that it's funny that

roscovillage felt the need to include the first initial (K.) of Fukudome's name in the title of this diary....

As if only typing "Fukudome" would be enough...

Fukudome? Who's that?

Oh.......K. Fukudome! Now I get it!

Super Mario Galaxy! Get it NOW!

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 7, 2007 2:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

My overall assessment of the objectives(2)

Fukudome actually leads the Cubs to pursue Roberts so they can trade DeRosa for Figgins who will start in CF but then compete with Pie while Figgins offers the Cubs the same super utility person that DeRosa offered.

Getting Roberts would mean giving up on Marshall and E Patterson whom McPhail will try to make work. This would move Gallagher up to the 6th starting pitching spot.

This roster would mean the following:

Roberts leads off...
Fukudome would bat second
Soriano 3rd
Lee 4th
Ramirez 5th
Soto 6th
Figgins 7th
Theriot 8th

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 7, 2007 3:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I see it as Figgins or Roberts...

not both.

And I suspect they want Fukudome batting 4th or 5th. I don't think they want to lump their LH bats back to back, but rather have them break up the string of RH bats. Also, I think they (perhaps mistakenly) envision Fukudome as more of a power guy. So:

Soriano
Roberts/Figgins
Lee
Ramirez
Fukudome
Soto
Pie/DeRosa
Theriot

Note that Figgins would play CF and DeRosa 2B, or Roberts would play 2B and Pie CF.

by SouthernCub on Dec 7, 2007 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WOW

If the Cubs could have Figgins and have him need to bat 7th thats impressive. I like stolen bases and that lineuup produces a lot probably top 2in the NL

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Dec 7, 2007 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs