Greinke Trade Talks Heating Up?

by deepthoughtsbyjackhandey on Dec 9, 2007 10:40 PM CST Comment 36 comments

Taken from Hot Stove Cubbies:

[editor's note, by Al] As I have mentioned before, copying and pasting from another source -- whether it's ESPN.com or another blog -- is a copyright violation and not permitted here. Here's the link to the post in question. Having said that, I agree with the posters below -- there's no corroboration, no MSM link, no web link, nothing for this. I don't believe it at all.

I would go for it, seeing that he is a young pitcher with potential and our surplus of minor league infield. I think it would be a great move. What do you guys think?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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If you could get him

for something like Veal and Patterson, I do in a second. Not sure though if this is a real discussion or just speculation.

by rlpete on Dec 9, 2007 10:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Definitely interesting...

I seem to remember Greinke having some kind of "personal issue" and didn't leave ST with the Royals either last year or year before.

A guy like that could definitely use the proverbial "change of scenery" and a move to the DHless NL.

Why the hell not?

Especially if they do get Roberts - go ahead and move EPatt and Cedeno. Veal seems to have boatloads of potential, but who knows if that will ever materialize? He could be the next Dontrelle Willis, but is that even a big deal?

Cubs chances in '08? Beats the FUK-U-DO-ME!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 9, 2007 10:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Two years ago

he had some personal issues, panic attacks or something like that, had to leave the team for an extended period of time.

A lot of people say stay away from Greinke but if I pitched for the Royals, I'd be having panic attacks too

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 9, 2007 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

great point.

Al is pretty down on Greinke, but being from KC and having watched him pitch I can tell you he's pretty special.

He was a very young man in a dead town on a team with no chance to win and with no run support. He got down and started to wonder if this was for him. It's understandable.

by nickler on Dec 10, 2007 6:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it?

There are plenty of players who play on crappy teams who go out there and perform without issues like that.

I know I called Greinke a "head case" before and that was uncalled for. However, clearly he has some issues. Have they been resolved? Maybe, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take the chance.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 7:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As a starter for the Royals...

...he put up a 3.80 ERA in 70ish innings. In the AL Central. He's got nearly as much upside as either of Haren or Bedard, if you ask me. He could well be the best starter on the Cubs next season.

Of course the Royals know that, and aren't going to give him up for cheap. But I'd certainly gamble on him, if the chance came.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 10, 2007 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Panic attacks are different.

He was a very young man in a dead town on a team with no chance to win and with no run support. He got down and started to wonder if this was for him. It's understandable.

This is not the nature of a panic attack. Have you ever known anyone who has the real thing? I have. It's quite disconcerting to see someone go from "normal self" to hyperventilation and near-passing-out in a matter of minutes. And has little or nothing to with "issues" such as lack of run support.

It's a medical condition that lurks somewhere in the area between the psychological and the physical. And it can be absolute misery for the person so afflicted.

by MN exile on Dec 10, 2007 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

If Greinke does come to the Cubs, it will be important for Cub fans to understand the nature of this affliction, including the fact that the attacks can be managed and it appears Greinke is managing them.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 10, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Greinke would be good.

He's been diagnosed and treated for his "panic attacks" and is taking medications for it. Part of his problem was not knowing what was wrong with him and he became overwhelmed,hence the panic attacks.

I will not judge him and let that deter me from wanting him to be a Cub. I'm glad to see that apparently Hendry isn't either. I posted a couple days ago how the Cubs could really use another quality RH arm in the rotation and if that's all the Cubs had to give up, he'd already be a Cub by now. Which is why I highly doubt that is the asking price.

What I want to know is, when I brought up that the Cubs needed to solidify their starting rotation at the beginning of the off-season all I heard was how the Cubs had the best starting ERA etc etc etc etc but now that the Cubs are apparently of the same mindset and are actively pursuing another starter, nothing. Why is that?

"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 10, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My impression

is that the Cubs are looking for a pitching upgrade and have been all along, but they are not willing to make it one of their public goals. They know they can't get an established, certain starter. And they are not sure they are even going to be able to get a guy like Greinke who has upside but also some uncertainty. So they are pursuing options quietly.

The alternative is for Lou to say "You gotta get me someone who can throw the ball," and then He Who Must Not Be Read will write a column and go on a half dozen different ESPN shows saying the Cubs MUST get Johan or their off-season will be a DISASTER. Then if the Cubs do land a guy like Greinke or Edwin Jackson it will be deemed a poor substitute for Johan and maybe even a failure.

Jim Hendry has learned a few things about how to interact with the Chicago media. His stated goals for this offseason are either ones he knows he will accomplish (Lefty OF) or ones no one will care if he doesn't accomplish (speedy, lefty IF).

As for posters on this board, I've been with you saying a starter with #2/#1 upside is needed. I think the hang-up is the statistic that the Cubs ERA was the second best in the NL. The question is whether or not that statistic is a) predictive of 2008's ERA, (and it isn't) and b) relevant to winning in the post-season (and it isn't). To up the Cubs chances of winning in the postseason, they need another shut-down starter and better defense. Adding Fukudome in RF will help the latter (although not as much as getting a better defensive SS).

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 10, 2007 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really wouldn't have panic attacks

and don't think that is the direct cause of Greinke's problems, it was more a joke than anything

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 10, 2007 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Greinke would be fantastic

As a starter his ERA was 3.80. When he returned to the rotation at the end of the year, in 7 starts his ERA was under 3.00.

I would trade more than Veal, Cedeno, and Patterson for him. His arm has minimal mileage on it. I hope this rumor is more than speculation.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 9, 2007 10:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

True...

and I love Grienke, he is a great talent and young....very young still....

But he just might still be bat sh!t crazy.....

Super Mario Galaxy! Get it NOW!

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 10, 2007 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're gonna lose me

with all of your technical medical jargon.

by davidalanu on Dec 10, 2007 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Veal, Cedeno, and Patterson sound great

Grienke is a solid arm to put in the pen or fill in if someone gets injured. You can never have too many good arms.

Veal did not perform at Double-A and Marshall, Hill, and Lilly are lefty starters. Patterson doesn't fit into our plans for OF or IF.

We do need a backup SS. That's my only concern.

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 9, 2007 11:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

So, in your mind Grienke is out of a

starting roll forever? Are you serious? He's 24.....he was just recently a top 5 overall prospect.....and now he can't start in the NL Central? Are you kidding?

And no one is trading 3 above average prospects for a reliever....even if it's Joe Nathan.

Super Mario Galaxy! Get it NOW!

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 10, 2007 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, let's just step back from the table

Everyone just chill out for a second now...

Let's not get out of control here. We already have Zambrano, Lilly, Hill, and Marquis. Then you have Dempster, Marshall, Gallagher, Hart and possibly even Prior. If Grienke came over he could very well win the 5th starter job. However, if you paid some attention to the Royals last year, you know they had Grienke pitching in the bullpen and Odalis Perez and Jorge De La Rosa got more starts than Grienke did.

In fact, Grienke didn't start any games in June or July and only had a couple of starts in May or August. It's certainly possible that Grienke wouldn't find his groove right away so we would give one of our other guys a shot in the rotation because we know that Grienke can handlethe bullpen and a guy like Marshall can handle the rotation.

If you would double read something before launching a nuclear attack style post, you would see that I didn't say anything about putting him in the pen forever.

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 10, 2007 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Prior?

Who is this "Prior" of whom you speak?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah if we can get Grienke

and sign Fukudome, and get Roberts, we could arguably be the best Cub team of all time, talent wise.

Zambrano
Hill
Grienke
Lilly
Marquis/Dempster/Marshall/Hart/Prior

Roberts
Soto
Lee
Soriano
Ramirez
Fukudome
Theroit/DeRosa
Pie/Theriot

"Losing is my only fear"

by Unique on Dec 10, 2007 12:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

For sure

But I don't see us being able to land Greinke and Roberts both.

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 10, 2007 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

Just wishful thinking buddy.

"Losing is my only fear"

by Unique on Dec 10, 2007 2:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You've got Soto hitting 2nd

In your fantasy lineup?

"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 10, 2007 3:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that struck me as odd as well.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Dec 10, 2007 4:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Of all time?

That's a pretty big statement. The teams from 100 years ago didn't win two in a row for nothing. Moreover, the teams from the 30's with Hartnett, Hornsby, Stephenson, et al weren't too shabby either. They just kept running into the best Yankee era of all time, the Ruth/Gehrig teams. Plus the 67-73 era Cubs would likely disagree.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Dec 10, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lemme throw water on this.

Hot Stove Cubbie is, shall we say, not the most reputable website. They provide absolutely no source for this, and I can find this information nowhere else on the Internet. I even went into the Cubs.com message board -- otherwise known as the "worst opium den in Thailand" of Cubs message boards -- and THEY don't have anything on this. And they openly truck in baldfaced lies!

I would not exactly get my hopes up here.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 10, 2007 2:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

cubs.com

I will say about cubs.com that any breaking news or even rumors, usually is posted there first.

"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 10, 2007 4:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cubs.com/message board....that is.

"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 10, 2007 4:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rumors are what they are

I don't get too worked up about not seeing sources; it's pretty easy to judge whether something's a valid possibility or not.

As for getting Greinke, I would love to get him. He's a great talent and he seems to have things under control now. Even with some of the things that are being posted about him here, he's got a better head on his shoulders than a certain front of the rotation guy that everybody loves.

If you can trade Cedeno or Patterson for it, go for it---they don't seem to fit with the Cubs and they're pretty much blocked anyway. If you give up Veal or Marshall as part of the package, go for it---we know what to expect out of Marshall, and Veal has talent but it's questionable whether or not he'll pan out. Might as well trade a young pitcher for one with higher upside.

by JDay on Dec 10, 2007 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Royals could want Cedeno

that much of this rumor makes sense. Their SS now has a glove, but he didn't come with a bat.

I'm just not sure why they would want to part with Greinke.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 10, 2007 12:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's why I question this rumor

They have no reason to dump him now. He appears to have the panic disorder under control. He pitched very well last year. He's not due for a big salary increase. Kansas City needs pitching more than anything. Unless you really offer a lot, I just don't see why they want to trade him.

by rlpete on Dec 10, 2007 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

you would have to offer them pitching prospects + Cedeno. Basically, you would have to make them an offer they couldn't refuse.

I'd be in favor of putting Fukudome in CF, DeRosa in RF, trading for Roberts at 2B, and trading Pie and Marshall for Grienke.

He's that good. Believe me.

by nickler on Dec 11, 2007 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't Stevie Ire...

... have ADHD?

He had a very difficult time pitching until he received medication to take care of his affliction, and then had to find the right dosage.

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 10, 2007 1:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jeff Weaver too.

A LOT of players actually have ADHD.

"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 10, 2007 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Forgive my cynicism

Actually scratch that - you're no stranger to cynicism.

Anyway, I've always found the sudden rash of ADHD diagnoses to be a little suspicious. Amphetamines get banned and suddenly what happens? A bunch of players get diagnosed with a condition whose treatment consists of - you guessed it - prescription amphetamines.

by Wreckard on Dec 10, 2007 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs