Z Update: It's Not Looking Good

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 1:13 PM CST in News Comment 127 comments

Bruce Miles has the update on Z and the upcoming arbitration.

MESA, Ariz. - Cubs general manager Jim Hendry left the parking lot at Fitch Park at 11:20 this morning, apparently to head home and change into his suit for an afternoon salary-arbitration hearing with pitcher Carlos Zambrano.

Minutes earlier, Hendry and Zambrano met for 2-3 minutes on one of the practice fields, with Hendry doing a lot of hand gesturing.

With it appearing the two sides had failed to strike an agreement on a one-year contract, the stage was set for an arbitration hearing at 3 p.m. Chicago time today at a Phoenix hotel. The hearing would be the first for the Cubs since 1993, when they went to an arbitration hearing with first baseman Mark Grace.

Zambrano is seeking $15.5 million for 2007, and the Cubs are offering $11.025 million. Last season, when Zambrano went 16-7 with a 3.41 ERA, he made $6.5 million.

There was still a chance the two sides could settle their differences, even up to the minutes before the hearing starts. The Cubs do not wish to settle at the midpoint number because they feel Zambrano's side has filed much too high at $15.5 million. The arbitration panel must choose one number or the other.

Chad, I might need that mai tai sooner than we thought.

Discuss.

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This dosent look good

I hope this dosen't make not sign a multiyear dealer later..Im kinda mad at Carlos too.Why cant he just accept that reasonable money for one freakin year, hes gunna be making 15-17 the next 5 years or so, how much freakin money do you need?IF he really loves the Cubs then just accept that 11 mil.

by PrimeTime on Feb 20, 2007 1:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Because

we gave Lilly $10M/year. If I were him, I wouldn't take $11M, either. It's not so much about money for a lot of these guys as it is about pride. He's looking at the offer as the Cubs saying he's just marginally better than Lilly.

Hendry screwed up giving Lilly and Marquis so much. Based on what they got, he's going to lose this arbitration. What's worse, he's going to have to say a lot of bad things to Z's face in the process, and that is going to make a long-term deal nearly impossible to get with someone as emotional as Carlos.

Bad move, Jim. Bad moves all around.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

While I agree...

Lilly's contract is for 5 million in 2007. Z is asking for $15.5 million in 2007.

Even Zito's 2007 salary is (reportedly) around $10 million.

Why do I care so much about a kid's game?

by audiospeedwagon on Feb 20, 2007 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree Julie..

Plus, Hendry should have been working on a long term deal during the year last year. Why wait? Did he think the market for pitching was going to go down?

Plus, plus..what if (God forbid) something were to happen to Z physically this year? Then he would have really screwed himself..

Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Feb 20, 2007 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

DUring the year last year...

MacPhail was still in charge. It wasn't until he was gone that the Cubs opened up the purse strings. Maybe he should have been trying harder before Zito was signed to sign Carlos to a long term deal, but last year, I believe, the management in place then would not go for a big bucks deal.

Kasey

by kaseyi on Feb 20, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I still believe...

... they'll come to an agreement, even just before the hearing.

One of the bad things about arbitration is that the arbitrator has no leeway between the two offers -- it's one or the other. It'd be far better if they could rule that there's an appropriate figure in between.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

15 mil. is an unprecedented number

Isn't like 11 or 12 mil the highest ever arbitration ruling ever given. I think Soriano was asking for 12 and only got 10. If its got to be one number or the other surely it's going to 11 and not the unprecedented 15, I mean Carlos is great but not the best player to ever go for arbitration.

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Feb 20, 2007 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano

got the highest award ever at $11M a few years ago, and he LOST. The arbitrator is going to look at the market this year, not in past years, and, based on what we gave Lilly, he's going to be hard pressed not to decide that Z is worth substantially more.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is that the benchmark, though?

The market? Or comparable arbitration awards? Depends on the arbitrator, I'd think.

Yet another reason I think arbitrators should be allowed to choose a figure in between the club figure and the player figure.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I see bad things

I think Mr. Zambrano is going to lose his arbitration hearing, hopefully this doesn't hinder Mr. Hendry's ability to sign him long term, at this moment it's not looking so good.

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Feb 20, 2007 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Zambrano Lose Hearing

I don't see how this could happen. The Cubs are low-balling him, offering someone who, for the past three years has been one of the best pitchers in all of baseball, something slightly more than offered to a league average pitcher named Ted Lilly. Greg Maddux got $10 million this year. The Red Sox, between salary and compensation to his team in Japan paid close to 20 million per year for a rookie.

Is it a high number, you bet. But the Cubs have so low balled Zambrano that they have to lose. And the only thing that one can think is that the Cubs fully expect to lose him next year and are trying to sully his reputation so they don't look as bad.

by frustratedfan on Feb 20, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, that's one of the good things

The fact that the arbitrator can only pick from between the two offers forces both sides to offer realistic figures (and likely settle before the hearing). If the arbitrator could "split the baby" the players would throw out ridiculous numbers to try to move the figure up and the team would counter with ridiculously low figures to do the same thing in the other direction. Baseball arbitration punishes such craziness. As a transactional lawyer, I incorporate baseball-style arbitration clauses into many of the leases and contracts I write.

by DaveinHouston on Feb 20, 2007 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

... they could establish an upper and lower limit on each side, based on certain criteria. That would eliminate that problem.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats, Hendry

Well, at least we have Marquis for 3 years. That should make us all happy, right?

"Looking for good signs is a good sign of delusion." - Me

by gravedigger on Feb 20, 2007 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You in particular

We know how happy you are about Marquis.

PAGAN!

by Jesse Guam on Feb 20, 2007 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You know what?

WTF is wrong with you?

Do you think this means the Cubs lose Z? Do you think in ANY way this means they can't or won't reach a longterm agreement before Opening Day?

I like you, but your constant negativity is beginning to wear on me.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Come now Al

I was just joining the pity party.

I really should have said what I really do believe - they will get this done. For some reason I just cannot explain, I still like that GM of ours, and I think he'll not only somehow avoid arbitration, but also sign Z to a very decent deal.

That make you happy? :)

"Looking for good signs is a good sign of delusion." - Me

by gravedigger on Feb 20, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Better.

Thanks. Check your email.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Checked and read

and perhaps responded to, if I have time before heading to work :)

"Looking for good signs is a good sign of delusion." - Me

by gravedigger on Feb 20, 2007 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

n/t

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agreed with you the first time

Marquis was a terrible signing. And I think there is a direct link between the amount of cash thrown at Marquis and Lilly is directly contributing to the breakdown in negotiations here.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't, because...

... the payroll is still far below the $120 million indicated that they were going to set as a ceiling (even if Z gets $15.5, it won't be much over $105m).

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't blame Zambrano for this...

If Lilly is worth $10 million to the Cubs, Marquis is worth $9 million and Soriano is worth however many bazillion he's making this year, Z has a pretty good case. Hopefully this won't leave a bad taste in his mouth no matter what the outcome.

by bergs55 on Feb 20, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

You don't have to back off what you believe just because Al doesn't agree. I'm with you. We're the only team dumb enough to sign the worst starter in the majors last year to a multi-year deal.

Dee dee deee.

And what was Hendry's justification? "He won 20 games in the last two years!"

Good point, Jim. If he won 20 games in one year, I might care.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Please don't tell me

That's a Mencia reference!
Anyways, to stay on topic...

If we don't sign Z to a long term deal, this really, really tempers all of my enthusiasm for the money we spent.

by BadGuy on Feb 20, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mencia is a

Joke Stealer!

I very excite about this upcoming season! Jenqui!

by nextyearcub on Feb 20, 2007 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

instead of stealing

loud sustained applause

allow me to say voluminous extended clapping to you Julie, captain my captain

but i agree Carlos Mencia is a very very unfunny man. Astrid laughed at him the other day and i almost filed papers

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I f*cking...

loathe Carlos Mencia. He's a stupid man's Dave Chappelle.

UZI

"I don't do drugs. I am drugs." - Salvador Dali

by Ozgreeder on Feb 20, 2007 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

man, what are you talking about?

Carlos Mencia says that if you don't find him funny, you just can't take his super edgy humor. So I have to ask: why are you such a wuss?

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Feb 20, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because my...

mother breastfed me too long/too much/in an iron lung, etc.

UZI

"I don't do drugs. I am drugs." - Salvador Dali

by Ozgreeder on Feb 20, 2007 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad you said that

I despise Mencia. His act sucks, and he's a complete hack. The guy has a huge ego too: you can tell he thinks he's incredibly edgy, and the hispanic Richard Pryor, but in reality he's just incredibly lame, and about as funny as a hispanic Mark Prior.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Feb 20, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have you guys seen

The Mencia/Joe Rogan feud? It's long, but he pretty much sums it up. Love that his real name is Ned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nEH8H5BqWg

I very excite about this upcoming season! Jenqui!

by nextyearcub on Feb 20, 2007 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no problem signing Marquis to multi year

Its the amount of money that gets me. Who were we bidding against?

Now a 3 year deal for 6 million total I would not be complaining but a 3 year 21 million dollar deal. Who else was going to offer him even half that amount per year?

I can't believe Al put Rick Wilkins in the top 100 cubs.

by diehardmark on Feb 20, 2007 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If a deal can't be made..

I feel we should trade him to the Mets for Mike Pelfrey (RHP), Phil Humber (RHP) and Fernando Martinez (OF)

"It's a great day for a ball game; let's play two!" -Ernie Banks

by Superman on Feb 20, 2007 1:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

this is a mistake

on hendry's part, IF he feels like Z would actually sign a 5 yr 90 mill deal then pay him whatever the heck he wants because in a few weeks it wont matter

OR perhaps this is a real indication that we arent nearly as close to a long term deal as we have been led to believe

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 1:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

or the Angels

for Brandon Wood (SS) Nick Aydenhart (RHP) Howie Kendrick (2B) Ervin Santana (RHP)

"It's a great day for a ball game; let's play two!" -Ernie Banks

by Superman on Feb 20, 2007 1:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You know...

... I love Z and want him to be a Cub forever.

But if the Angels would give those four, I'd do it.

Fact is, the Angels are almost as hard to deal with as Tampa Bay is. Even if they wanted Z, they'd never agree to give enough value for him.

I think it's time to stop hyperventilating and recognize that there are still five weeks to opening day, plenty of time to come to a longterm agreement.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a huge Z fan also

but I tend to believe players are always gonna take the money. If we trade him while his stock is high then it would be good for us. Hopefully Hendry can get it done.

"It's a great day for a ball game; let's play two!" -Ernie Banks

by Superman on Feb 20, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

I appreciate the link to my story. We're doing our best not to cede the world of breaking news to mlb.com.

by Bruce Miles on Feb 20, 2007 1:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

And...

... here at BCB, we want to do the same, and are happy to link to your articles any time.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

anything

that prevents carrie muskrat from getting the first word about any topic is ok with me

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

She won't...

... often, cubs.com is about the LAST place to get this sort of news.

Which is fine with me!

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

you can give Bruce a webcam and he can file reports live on BCB.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Feb 20, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bruce

the hand gestures you referred to were they Hendry on his knees making the begging motion?

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And what hand gestures did Carlos give Jim?

If he was telling him he is "number one", we are screwed.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 20, 2007 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if i were

Carlos it would be the finger

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Brief Blurb

on ESPN 1000 said that the two sides were working to iron out a one year deal said to be in the area of $12.5M.

FWIW

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That...

... sounds fair. It also leaves the door open for a multiyear deal before April 2.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Frankly...

... I'd be surprised to see Zambrano settle for anything less than the half way point between what he asked for and what the Cubs offered.

The Cubs should not want to go to Arbitration for a few reasons. First off, no matter what Zambrano says, he is going to take it personally. How could you not? Arbitration hearings are not pleasant and the Cubs should want to avoid this. Further, while no one is pining to have Andy MacPhail back, the Cubs front office doesn't want to give the fans a reason to want him back. If they screw up the first big arbitration case post MacPhail after a very clear philosophy and track record, it will not reflect well on Hendry and McDonough.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Z and personal pride

From my observation Z is a lot about personal and pride, and the problem with the hearing is that you have be matter of fact and show knock downs.

I actually think that the agents are in a no lose situation, they get 8% of 11M or 15M and then if he gets pissed and goes FA they get 8% of $135 instead of $95

Best Harry moment: 'Hey there's Marla without her shorts on!'

by Ivy Walls on Feb 20, 2007 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All About Image.

This is all about Hendry, who was spent big all winter (which I supported then and now), now trying to make a statement. And that statement is, we still are not going to let our players write out their own contract on a napkin, which is exactly how he worded it at the Cubs Convention. I understand where he is coming from, but for the life of me I cannot understand why he can throw money at Lilly and Marquis without even thinking about it, and then start "bean-counting" with his best pitcher, a 26-year old workhorse who is really just entering his prime. I guess "bean-counting" is not a good choice of words when these kinds of numbers are being thrown around, but when you consider what he has given guys who couldn't carry Big Z's jock strap, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this is going down to the wire.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 20, 2007 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Loud, sustained applause

n/t

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just

want it done. I have a headache while waiting for news.

COTTS!!!

by sue369 on Feb 20, 2007 1:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

big z

if this goes badly we could be saying goodbye to big z.but you know,im tired of players crying about making in 1 year what i wont make in my life.sucks all the pleasure right out of the game.if we cant resign z then either keep him and work him like a horse or trade him at the break.i think the cubs really blew this one.but hey we,ve got lily and marquis for 3 years. what?me worry.

by NOMAR on Feb 20, 2007 1:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Panic

Just wondering how many people here posted the same thing about Aramis Ramirez last fall? I remember many diaries about he was gone, we were going to have Joe Randa or Aaron Boone at 3rd, what was Hendry doing, etc., etc.

These things always seem to go down to the wire. I'm not saying it will get done but I'm surely not in panic mode yet.

by rlpete on Feb 20, 2007 2:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Loud, sustained applause!

n/t

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

let's

be clear about one thing

Aramis is here because he wanted to be. He took very signifigant discount and it had nothing to do with Jim Hendry or the Cubs FO.

Carlos Zambrano is a different person and if he doesnt want to be treated like Roy Oswalt Hendry should respect that and pay him like Carlos Zambrano deserves to be paid.

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

aramis also

took a very significant pay increase. Aramis could have gotten more on the open market, but not a substantial amount more, he's still being paid handsomly.

DON'T TRADE PIE!

by kylejo on Feb 20, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

aramis

could have snagged 6-7 yrs over 100 mill easy.

the guy was 28 entering his prime at a weak market position in a crazy market

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wrong

He could have gotten several 10s of millions more had he fully tested the market. Ramirez was the best bat available in the offseason, and numbers 2 and 3 (soriano and lee) both signed $100m+ contracts.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Feb 20, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

carlos lee and soriano

Carlos Lee is making what, 1.5 mil more a year? Hardly a substantial amount. Soriano making what 2.5 more a year? With eye-popping numbers last year.

My point is, Aramis signed for a 4 mil a year raise, that's a lot. He also will be up for free agency now in time for another big contract, coincidence?

No. The deal here is that Soriano and Lee opted for longer contracts because they are older. Of course the total dollar amount is substantially more because the years are longer. The amount per year is not very different, that is what I was saying. Aramis got a contract to his liking, got a big raise, and will be due for another big pay day when this contract is over. So dont just disagree with me to disagree with me.

DON'T TRADE PIE!

by kylejo on Feb 20, 2007 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess we'll see

Right Now Hendry and Z are on BCB lurking waiting for the panic to begin. I paniced with AmRam big time. If Hendry was even close to me I would have thrashed him, but he did it and a lot more.

We'll see Zambo and his guys might feel it's a win-win either way. If he signs lower now Jim will make it up in the long term.

It takes 2 to lie. One to lie and one to listen! HJS

by Scott G F on Feb 20, 2007 2:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

it's pointless to freak out like that

If Ramirez didn't sign, we would have lost him for next to nothing. If Z doesn't sign here, we'll still have him for this season if we want to keep him, and arbitration doesn't necessarily preclude a long term contract. We can also still trade Z for prospects. Arbitration isn't the end of the world.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Feb 20, 2007 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed....

we should push the panic button when Hendry trades Z for a pack of Virginia Slims and a Mariachi band from Wisconsin.

UZI

"I don't do drugs. I am drugs." - Salvador Dali

by Ozgreeder on Feb 20, 2007 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Arbitration isn't the end of the world

No it isn't but the AmRam thing was a but much. The Cubs would have lost out big time.

It takes 2 to lie. One to lie and one to listen! HJS

by Scott G F on Feb 20, 2007 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm on Zambrano's side

There's been a lot of money thrown around like it's nothing all winter. All they are going to do is compare statistics with players who have recently signed contracts. Zambrano's stats somewhat resemble Zito's stats and so should his pay. It's not a matter of him being greedy, it's a matter of getting fair market value. I don't like the amount, but it's fair in comparison. I'm just afraid too many harsh words are going to get thrown out there in order to justify that he's not worth 15.5.

By the way, I've been a long time reader enjoy everyone's commentary. Just figured I'd finally put in my 2 cents.

by dahcar on Feb 20, 2007 2:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

And, whether he likes it or not, Hendry did his part to impact market value this offseason. He should have been smart enough to foresee what effect showering Lilly and Marquis with cash was going to have on Z's asking price.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the only thing

this winter's deals have an affect on is any long-term deal they reach with Z. The one-year arbitration figure is mainly decided on by looking at past arbitration figures for similar players with similar service time.

if it goes to arbitration, Z will lose. there is no question about this. he asked for a ridiculous figure, and when you do that in an arbitraiton hearing, you guarantee you won't win.

z's agents set this up to be a contentious negotation by asking what they did. i don't think hendry will budge on the one-year deal, because it would cause too many problems in the future. his only hope is to either get carlos signed to a long-term before the hearing, or to get him to agree to something around 11 or 12 for this year with a good-faith promise to get something long-term worked out.

and sorry again about messing up the draft date.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Feb 20, 2007 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop drinkin

or sniffing glue....
My heart has a hard enough time during, the season, let alone all this drama before it even starts.

by BadGuy on Feb 20, 2007 2:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

weeeeee!!

looks like we're going to arbitration

wait, this isnt fun :-(

LOUD NOISES!!!

by NittanyCub on Feb 20, 2007 2:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't agree with the doom and gloomers

I think that if it goes to arbitration, the Cubs would win. I don't think they'd even have to be that negative toward Z to do it.

He pitched fewer innings than the year before. He walked more men than the year before. Had a higher ERA and WHIP than the year before. And still, the Cubs are offering him an almost 5 million dollar raise.

This is negotiating with a player already under contract, which is completely different than and independent of the free agent market. Z will have his chance to cash in as a free agent, and he certainly will. However, if I'm the one making the decision and I see that, as fine a year as he had, he actually had a worse year last year than the previous and he's getting a 5 million raise and asking for 9 million, I give the 5 and tell him to be happy.

by Scott on Feb 20, 2007 2:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If using your logic

Then Z loses this but wins too. The guy can't lose!!

It takes 2 to lie. One to lie and one to listen! HJS

by Scott G F on Feb 20, 2007 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My guess

is that we all have heart palpitations because we don't hear anything before the deadline, then 10 minutes afterwards it's announced they settled on a one year deal for around 13 million. It's just like the trading deadline, right?

by JodyDavis on Feb 20, 2007 2:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

Just because a deadline passes, doesn't mean something hasn't been done, to be announced later.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well barring any last minute

move our boy is in arbitration.

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 3:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's 3:06 CST

Hold me.

by JodyDavis on Feb 20, 2007 3:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

for 5 mil or 9 mil....?

Zambo will be getting the gravey either way!!

Check Hendry's EKG for me please!!!

It takes 2 to lie. One to lie and one to listen! HJS

by Scott G F on Feb 20, 2007 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone else

think that the announcement is being delayed so that an ESPN reporter can take credit for the scoop? Somebody check the ESPNews ticker.

by JodyDavis on Feb 20, 2007 3:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

it's loaded with dominic rhodes

getting a DUI early this morning.

stupid dominic rhodes.

LOUD NOISES!!!

by NittanyCub on Feb 20, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Possible news

From over at NSBB

"ESPN 1000 reporting they are only 200K apart and the hearing may not have started yet.

12.3 and 12.5"

The what's the deal? 200K? Bend!!

It takes 2 to lie. One to lie and one to listen! HJS

by Scott G F on Feb 20, 2007 3:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe they are.

Believe it or not, I doubt they are sitting in the negotiating session reading BCB.

It'd be nice if they did, though.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If that happened

This deal would have taken place a long time ago. We put enough common sense on here that even stubborn Hendry would figure it out.

I very excite about this upcoming season! Jenqui!

by nextyearcub on Feb 20, 2007 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That what I was talking about

This is about pride, not money.

Not a good sign. If they can't get a deal done when they are $200k apart, there are some strong, unyeilding egos at work.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

gah

"unyielding"

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

God help us.

I think Z wins.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Feb 20, 2007 3:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Arbitration

According to the Trib, they have gone to arbitration:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-070220cubszambrano,1,930185.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

PAGAN!

by Jesse Guam on Feb 20, 2007 3:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

NO ARB

Wscr just announced that abitration was avoided.

$12.5M

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 3:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

So

this means I can take off my Chicken Little outfit now?

by JodyDavis on Feb 20, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha

by tyger1147 on Feb 20, 2007 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you sure?

Because how can they 'go' and then agree?

I believe you though. It's just this really went up to the last second.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Feb 20, 2007 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently...

... the hearing never began. I'm not sure how it actually works, but if the two sides are trying to hammer out details and are near an agreement, I'd guess the arbiters will allow them some leeway.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You can always settle

I've settled while the jury was in the back deliberating AFTER the trial was done. There's not time limit on when you can reach an agreement.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And...

... this is why you shouldn't have worried in the first place!

Negotiations are NOT always easy, they often go back and forth over the smallest things.

This is a great relief to know that Z is signed for an agreed-upon amount between the parties, and not an arbitration-enforced figure (whether the team's or Z's).

Now, Jim Hendry, get to work on that multiyear deal!

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 20, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

And take advantage of the fact that the Cubs are only on the hook for $12.5M next year. Throw that out and front load the contract to ease the pressures of having to pay a ton of dough to Ramirez, Soriano, and co at the back end of their deals.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

FOX Sports.com

Reporting that a deal has been made as well.

Of course im a CUBS FAN What other Chicago baseball team is there?

by Galvan316 on Feb 20, 2007 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've just endured

6 minutes of commercials on The Score's webfeed. COME ON ALREADY.

by JodyDavis on Feb 20, 2007 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ya...

... they tend to load up their commercials in the last ten minutes of each hour so they can go commercial free during the rest of the hour.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah

so the SCR in their call letters actually stands for Soccer.

by JodyDavis on Feb 20, 2007 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK

Now I am hearing the 12.5 million thing, from "sources," and that it actually happened while the two side were sitting in a room about to start the arbitration? And Hendry's trying to take better care of his heart??

by JodyDavis on Feb 20, 2007 4:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Cubs.com

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070220&content_id=1808715&vkey=spt2007new s&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

They confirm that a deal has been reached, however it just appears as though the first paragraph in the previous story was changed. I assume a new story will be posted shortly.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Internet faux pas to change posted stories

I'm not wild about cubs.com posting stories and then updating them instead of posting new ones. On one hand they are trying to treat their story section and it also feels a little bit like they are trying to cover suppositions made in previous versions(here that Z was going to arbitration, though it would have technically been correct :)

I think it's bad form to take reported news and then cover all record of previously reported news.

by JonH on Feb 20, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

correction

Yes, my desire for an edit feature on comments could be seen as irony....

"they are trying to treat their story section and" ...should read... "they are trying to treat their story section as a news ticker and"

by JonH on Feb 20, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is also

on Camcast.

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_0p.asp?ID=45420

COTTS!!!

by sue369 on Feb 20, 2007 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

HE SIGNED!!!

espn radio reports a 12.4 mil 5yr deal for carlos zambrano.

by gocubs40 on Feb 20, 2007 4:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sounds good

Too good to be true, actually

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Feb 20, 2007 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait 5yr

as in multi!?

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 4:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

No

I think it's one-year, right?

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Feb 20, 2007 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

has to be

if its 5 yr 63 mill i will shit myself

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We will...

both have shitty pants, indeed.

UZI

"I'm not pissed because you said 'gizzards', I'm pissed because my fingers are burning" - My wife, Christina.

by Ozgreeder on Feb 20, 2007 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You'll have to take care of yourselves

With two little kids (who are thankfully now toilet trained), I've changed enough dirty diapers in the last seven years!

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Feb 20, 2007 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One year

sounds a lot more likely at that price. Getting him for 5 years at $12 mln a year, as the original poster implied, is a fantasy that is not going to happen.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we hear in the next few days or weeks that Z has signed a long-term deal.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Feb 20, 2007 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dawson

"In 1988, Andre Dawson asked for $2 million and the Cubs offered $1.85 million. The arbitrator ruled in favor of the Cubs."

Can't believe the cheapness of the Cubs back then. The guy had just won MVP with 49 homers, playing for a paltry salary of around $500,000. And what do the Cubs do? Take him to aribitration over a lousy $150,000? It's surprising he stayed with the team as long as he did considering management's attitude.

Not that this has anything to do with Zambrano.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Feb 20, 2007 4:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Apples to Oranges

This was nearly 20 years ago. The difference between $2M and $1.85M back then was significant. That is more like a $1-2M difference in today's market.

And this was the Cubs under Jim Frey and an entire different slew of folks at TribCo. This has nothing to do with how the Cubs are managed today.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course

The money has changed since then, and of course it has nothing to do with management today.

Still, I think you over-estimate the value of $150,000 back then.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Feb 20, 2007 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Salaries

In 1988, the minimum salary was $62,500 and the average salary was $438,729. I do not have the numbers for 2006, but in 2005 the minimum was all the way up to $316,000 while the average salary was $2.63M.

I don't believe that I'm overrating the value of $150,000 from 1988 in today's baseball dollars.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And...

... according to Baseball Prospectus, the Cubs payroll was 13,119,208. This year its going to be about 9X that.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

185k in 1988

would be 315k in today's dollars, according to online inflation calculators, fwiw. though in fairness, baseball salaries have outpaced that.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Feb 20, 2007 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sort of proves my point

I was following the Cubs back then, and $150K was not a lot of money. Even then.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Feb 20, 2007 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not at all

Look at what Tomas said. He pointed to inflation, then said that baseball dollars have not followed suit. The Cubs payroll next year is going to be about 9X what it was in 1988. The highest payroll that year was $19M. That stands to reason that a $150,000 difference then would be more like a $1.4M difference today.

A $150,000 difference in 1988 is not the paltry difference that you seem to believe that it is. Furthermore, what does that mean today when it is an entirely different front office?

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

if you want to know what i think (and i'm sure you don't, but i'm bored and there's nothing else to talk about this morning) here it is.

i think you are both right and wrong.

that 150k or 180k 20 years ago would equate to a much bigger difference today. if you think of it this way, it represented about 10 or 15 percent of his salary. since a good slugger these days is going to fetch 10-15 mil per year, that would equate to a difference in close to 2 million dollars in today's market.

however, the amount of money they were off had a fixed value in that day, so i don't think you can compare that amount relative to today's market, you have to compare it relative to today's dollar value. 180k then, as i mentioned, is worth 320k now. so its not as big a difference as dml suggested.

regardless, it is a different management now so i'm not sure why we're even talking about it. i guess its because its either talk about that or talk about diary hijacking/julie being threatened.

lastly, how come whenever there is a gap between the sides, people always say its management being cheap by not closing the gap, and not the player being greedy by going lower on their demand?

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Feb 21, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not 5 Years

The Cubs are looking into signing him for 5 years....my bad.

by gocubs40 on Feb 20, 2007 4:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

OK everyone......

take a deep breath. Relax. Another crisis averted.

As I said, these frequently go down to the wire. My guess is that both sides knew they were going to get a deal done and they were just playing chicken to see what the final number was.

I'm also sure that if Zambrano is looking for a reasonable long-term deal, it will get done. Of course, reasonable is debatable.

by rlpete on Feb 20, 2007 5:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kudos to you and Al.

You guys both seemed confident that this would happen.

I just feel so much better when I'm drinking beer.

by deadcatbounce on Feb 20, 2007 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, first step down....

Good for Carlos, being the bigger person, and being willing to bend. Now, someone please memo Jim Hendry in case he doesn't have for foresight and tell him the following: "Jim, sign him to a multiyear deal before Opening Day. It will cost you a lot, but a hell of a lot less than if you wait. Do it now!!"

Second memo is to one Carrie Muskat: "Carrie, if you post one more 'article' on Cubs.com in which you begin with one piece of new information, and then cut and paste the rest of it from your last three 'articles', you need to be canned on the spot. There is no need to read the same quotes four different times." Jeez, and this lady actually has enough credentials as a journalist to vote for the Hall of Fame.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 20, 2007 5:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

O RLY?

The Associated Press does this ALL the time. If we're going to bag on the Muskrat, let's at least do it for sins that are particular to her.

by cwyers on Feb 20, 2007 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Like...

...forgetting Jacque Jones's handedness?

According to the Chicago Tribune: "The Oakland A's are 32-0 when they have scored more runs than their opponents.

by Carlos on Feb 20, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha

JH: Hey Carlos, you really don't want to do this, I don't want to have to talk about your inflated K-BB ratios or the fact that you averaged 5 BB's per 9 IP last year.

Z: Carlos Zambrano will leave you after this year.

JH: No, you won't, how does 12.3 sound?

Z: Sounds like you need to pay Carlos Zambrano more money

JH: you're breaking my balls here Carlos... Cmon don't you know I have heart problems.. but I'm still here for you Carlos.... 12.4.

Z: You're getting closer. Carlos Zambrano likes you. Big Z, likes your organization, and the fact that you finally signed someone who can score runs for me, You know that I hit more Homeruns than you got out of the SS position all year last year. Cedeno 6 in 534 AB's. I mean you may as well had played me at SS on my off-days.

JH: Heyyy man that's a great idea, hey can you play any CF ?

Z: Only if you give me 12.5 mil.

JH: Done deal.

Z: Yay Carlos is rich. bwahahhaha.

by cubsfan2883 on Feb 20, 2007 6:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs