Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: The Boxing Bulletin for Boxing Fans!

Derrek Lee - Good First Baseman or Myth

Driving home tonight I heard the hosts on WSCR proudly proclaiming how having Derrek Lee back will be of great help as he will save lots of A Ram errors. And, initially, I said, hey that's right. And then I got home and look at the statistics. Hmmmm. Last season, with Lee out for much of the season and the Cubs having to play "substandard" defensive players at first, A Ram had a BETTER FP with fewer errors. Hmmmm.

Sounds like the idea that Lee saves lots of A Ram errors may be a myth.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 45 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Or...
It could be that, as other posts have pointed out, Ramirez has been working on his fielding every off-season like a hound and is actually getting better.

Honestly, you're dumb. If you brought one piece of logic to your pessimism, I might actually agree with you. But you don't. I must be stupid for even responding.

by tyger1147 on Feb 20, 2007 10:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Inappropriate Post
Al

The post was a personal attack on the poster and not on the idea.  It is inappropriate.  

Now a response to the substance.

Certainly A Ram has been working hard on getting better.   But, interestingly enough, when Lee first showed up, and A-Ram's errors dropped in half, virutally all of the credit was given to D Lee.  And now, when the errors continued to drop WITHOUT D Lee,  the claim is made that it is because A Ram has worked harder.  Which is it?  If A Ram has gotten better becuase he has worked hard, then is Lee really that big a force at first?  If Lee is really that big a force at first, then why did we see a further decling in errors by A Ram?  

The point is that the claim that D Lee saves "many" A Ram errors is just not true.  Last year, without D Lee for much of the season, A Ram made 13 errors.  Even assuming that they were all throwing errors, which they are not, even if D Lee saved half of them, that's essentially six outs.  

Does D Lee look impressive at first?  Sure.  Is he a great fielder? Absolutely.  Are we giving him too much credit for his fielding?  yeah, I think so.  Now if he can hit like 2005, he certainly hits well enough to make him an All Star first baseman. But at first the value is really with the Bat.  

by frustratedfan on Feb 20, 2007 11:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is this possible?
Ramirez is going to get better with each passing year, but when Lee is playing, he still saves Ramirez some errors.  Maybe with a full season of Lee, Ramirez only makes, say, ten errors.

by gjdow on Feb 20, 2007 11:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No Doubt
Yes, Lee makes A Ram better.   No doubt.  Maybe with Lee for a full season A Ram only makes 10 errors (as you suggest).  That's a savings of three full outs.  In contrast, Lee's Bat, which is much better than league average, adds far more value.  The better fielding is a bonus, but its the mushrooms on the steak, not the steak.

by frustratedfan on Feb 20, 2007 11:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They don't..
just hand out gold gloves for nothing......unless you are Jim Edmonds and lolygag to a ball and dive at the last minute countless times throughout a season.
Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Feb 21, 2007 2:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And that's when.............
..........you realize the votes are tallied in St. Loser, home to Rawlings.

Trust me, now that Piehole has won a GG, it will be impossible for others to capture the prize.  Lee will likely have to be errorless or else the Shitbird nation will cry foul.

by tville on Feb 21, 2007 7:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...
..you are right.  Next season watch Pujols at 1B.  He doesn't even extend to catch the throws to 1B.  I saw a few close plays last year that should have been outs but he doesn't reach (extend) out for the ball.
Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Feb 21, 2007 1:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO
See, I think we are logical about our cautious approach toward this season.  FF's posts used to be humorous, but now they are just ridiculous.  
"Looking for good signs is a good sign of delusion." - Me

by gravedigger on Feb 20, 2007 11:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hopes versus Reality
The problem is that it seems that all fans at this time of year tend to disconnect from any reality.   The hosts on WSCR, for example, are saying that the Cubs should run away with the Central.   When you realize that the Cubs were one of the very worst teams in baseball last year and didn't really address their major needs, this statement is just preposterous.  And that's what I am pointing out.  Facts.  Reality.  And the stats pretty much disprove the idea that D Lee now saves "lots" of A Ram errors.  He saves some.  But its necessarily less than 13, and realistically is well less than 10.

by frustratedfan on Feb 20, 2007 11:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know what you are saying...
...but I think you go overboard.

For instance, I also believe there's little chance this team wins the division.  But you've said before that it is nearly impossible.  Unlikely - maybe.  Impossible - no.

The thing is that I agree with the general points you lay out there, but then you go and try to make some illogical conclusion out of them.  The facts you uncover point to a team that won't be much improved.  But that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

"Looking for good signs is a good sign of delusion." - Me

by gravedigger on Feb 20, 2007 11:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You obviously have no clue...
..."When you realize that the Cubs were one of the very worst teams in baseball last year and didn't really address their major needs"

The Cubs were riddled with injuries last year.  Through the pitching staff and their stand-out first baseman.  They had a lame-ass manager that did nothing but make excuses all season long and tell everyone to look at his overall record.  That team was headed for the gutter as soon as Lee went down because they had a shit manager and no one on the bench.

You say that they didn't address their problems....well then you sir, don't know squat.  They increased in depth at the starting pitching position (we are no longer waiting on Miller, Wood or Prior).  Our bullpen was already and still is solid.  We increased (huge) at centerfield and still retain the rest of our outfield.  Derrek is back and we retained Ramirez.  DeRosa is an improvement (especially if we use him in RF vs lefties).  This team is nowhere near the team of last year.  

I know what you are doing, you do it every year.  you come on here and talk shit about how horrible this team is.  That way at the end of the year, you can say that "I told you so".  But if you are wrong then you will cheer right along side of everyone else and say "Wow what a year".  I would prefer it if you would just shut up and say thank you.  We don't need to hear this (unsupported by physical evidence) blabber in February.  

If you feel this strongly about it then you can e-mail me at dougstrehlow@yahoo.com and we can work out some sort of wager.  I am a gambling man and we can probably work out some sort of fair bet.  That is if you truly believe what you say.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Feb 21, 2007 2:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll wager....
a case of oreos that the Phillies beat out the Cubs for the Wild Card in the last week of the season.

UZI

"I'm not pissed because you said 'gizzards', I'm pissed because my fingers are burning" - My wife, Christina.

by Ozgreeder on Feb 21, 2007 8:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lee saves errors
All you have to do to realize that is watch the game.  He makes difficult scoops and dives look routine.

by gjdow on Feb 20, 2007 11:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Look versus Reality
Does Lee look impressive at first?  You bet.  But remember style points only count in diving and skating.  The ultimate question is in the results.   Corey Patterson, for example, frequently was out of position and ended up making "easy plays" look spectacular.   On the other hand, other very good CF played in the right position and made hard plays look routine.  Which do you want?  The player that looks good or the player that actually fields well.  

Now, as it happens, the stats suggest that Lee has well above average range and is league average in terms of FP.   Taking into account that above average range, I suspect that the FP is a bit low because he gets errors at the extremes of his range.  

But to say that Lee is "outstanding" becuase he makes dives, doesn't really prove anything.

by frustratedfan on Feb 20, 2007 11:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, it doesn't
But I've watched enough baseball to know that throws that would have gotten away from most other first basemen don't get away from Lee.

I know the Jim Edmonds argument very well, and I tend to agree with it.  That doesn't mean, however, that when Lee's height comes into play and he leaps to catch a liner that would be out the reach of any other first baseman in the league that it's a "flashy" play because he's out of position.  So, you have to ask yourself, is it "flash" or is it ability?  Is Lee getting to balls that other first basemen aren't?  I think so.

Similarly, when he regularly rescues poor throws in the dirt -- which is something that everybody who watches him play can agree happens -- he's certainly adding defensive value to the team.  Just because Ramirez is throwing the ball better doesn't take away anything from Lee.  It could be psychological: Lee's ability to turn mistakes into outs in 2004 may have resulted in in a more confident Ramirez in 2005 and 2006.  Or, it could be that Ramirez no longer lets poor hitting performance affect how he plays defense, something that I understand affected him in Pittsburgh.  Either way, it doesn't change my opinion of Lee as a stellar defensive first baseman: it doesn't matter if he's the reason Ramirez is better or not, he's still an above-average defensive first baseman.

Simply put, you can't look solely at Ramirez's fielding percentage to ascertain how good of a defensive player Lee is.  There are two other infield positions, there are plays involving the pitcher and the catcher, and there are plays he makes unassisted.  In my observation, his ability to make plays on defense is greater than most first basemen in the game.

by gjdow on Feb 20, 2007 11:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you remember what Florida fans..
all said    "when he regularly rescues poor throws in the dirt"     that is something that DLee has always been known for.  The bottom line is that he is a wiz of a glove at first base.  All of the experts have taken notice to this.
Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Feb 21, 2007 2:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Florida has fans?
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 21, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps...
... you should look at Aramis' career fielding numbers. Ramirez committed 33 errors in 2003, the year before Lee joined the Cubs. In 2004? 10 errors. Looking at Ramirez's fielding percentage year by year, two of his top three years have been with Lee playing first.

In 2004, Ramon Martinez got the bulk of the time at SS. He committed one fewer error than he did in roughly the same number of chances the year before.

In 2004, Todd Walker committed 7 errors in 213 attempts, while the year before, in Boston, he committed 16 errors in 235 attempts. Walker had one fewer error in 2005 (164 attempts).

In 2005, Neifi Perez committed 12 errors in 432 attempts. The year before, in San Francisco, before being acquired, he committed 7 errors in 273 attempts (with gold glover JT Snow at first).

I personally don't feel like looking at the difference Lee made for his fielders in Florida. The above numbers really are meaningless, however as every ballpark is different and I have no idea how many of these errors are throwing versus fielding.

I don't feel like piling on you, but it doesn't seem as though you spent much time really looking at hard numbers or considering why these numbers are they way that they are.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2007 11:57 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Correction
Todd walker had 246 attempts in 2005.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 21, 2007 12:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So bascially
you take a small sample size like last year and decide that Derek Lee is a myth

no please FF dont take the time to do a little more reaserch thats not what diaries are for, they are basically for posting whatever the fuck is on your mind after you check some stats ince for 5 minutes

And then after making a diary about wheter his defense is a myth you  wrote  Does D Lee look impressive at first?  Sure.  Is he a great fielder? Absolutely.  Are we giving him too much credit for his fielding?  yeah, I think so

Jesus Christ! This PERSONAL opinion of yours that cannot be proven, (not that you made the effort) deserves an entire diary with a flashy title designed to suck people in to learn that the REAL issue is that you think he gets to much credit but is outstanding. I feel violated that i spent time reading this, I want the last 10 minutes of my life back, Shit like this makes me want to blow my brains out with a pistol because you took no effort or time in doing this yet have sucseeded in wasting ours.

Give me 5,000 hijacked threads over this shit.

Oh and crying to al about personal attacks pisses me off even more. This is a blog people. If you cant take some heat especially when you post something like this then you just need to find a new hobby. This isnt daycare its a place for discussion and that doesnt have to be PC 24/7. NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS.

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 20, 2007 11:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

::Sustained applause::
That made me laugh so hard that I teared up.

by VicVega on Feb 21, 2007 1:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh.
The worst thing about this isn't the personal attacks, although those weren't appropriate, and there are plenty of ways to criticize someone's diary or post without calling them "dumb".

The worst part is that it was based on something said on sports talk radio.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 21, 2007 4:35 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Um Al...
... for what its worth, the comment on sports radio was that Lee being back was going to help the defense. WSCR wasn't saying that Lee is overrated defensively.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 21, 2007 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Derrek Lee is an excellent first baseman
although, using purely anecdotal evidence, I do think he's a little overrated. While he IS one of the very best 1b at picking throws in the dirt, and reacting to line drives, I think he's no better than average/slightly above average at reacting and snagging balls hit sharply on the ground both to his right and down the line. Even so, when you take his full scope of abilities (including throwing) he's one of the best first basemen in all of baseball.

That said, FFs theory was baseless, and his conclusions could easily be a result of extraneous variables.  That isn't to say that his theory isn't possibly correct, but it's hard to debate a theory backed up with such weak, inconclusive evidence.

Also, I've said it before, and I'll say it many times more: Ramirez is one of the most underrated third basemen in baseball due to the stigma attached to him during his early career. His range isn't great, but he now has one of the surer gloves and throwing arms for 3b in all of baseball now.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Feb 21, 2007 6:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Line drives
I have seen a few times when Lee has really struggled with hard hit balls that are nearly directly at him.  It does seem to be the one weak spot in his defense.
PAGAN!

by Jesse Guam on Feb 21, 2007 10:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's Lee's...
...more sabermetrically-minded defensive stats, for those interested.

I'm sorta torn on the notion of Lee's defense at first base. On one hand, he IS a good defender at first base -- scouting, sabermetrics, and SportsCenter highlights all seem to concur on this.

But something in the back of my head tells me he cannot be THAT good of a defender because... he plays first base. First base is perhaps the least defense-oriented position on the diamond. So how did Lee end up there?

(I also looked up Pujols's fielding stats, for comparison. He's not bad. Of course, I have to ask -- if you have a guy like that who can play shortstop, as apparently he can, why the HELL is he at first base? I'm starting to believe, firmly, that the two best offensive shortstops of our age are playing the corners, and I'm starting to get a little dismayed.)

by cwyers on Feb 21, 2007 9:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Why is Lee a 1B?
Where else would you play someone with his build? He's not an outfielder, clearly. 1B is about the only other place for someone like him.
"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 21, 2007 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Piehole at SS?
I've never seen that espoused.  He was a 3B when he broke in and then moved to LF, but I've not seen evidence that he could play short.

Big difference between playing those other positions and trying to tackle SS.

by tville on Feb 21, 2007 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't remember
your posts being as ridiculous and uniformed as they've been lately. maybe someone stole your user name.
DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Feb 21, 2007 12:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

d.lee
we all know lee is a very good 1st baseman.i wont even join in this discussion. D.LEE

by NOMAR on Feb 21, 2007 1:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Why Would You Say That
All I am doing is pointing out the facts.  Cub fans, like all fans, tend to overvalue their own players.  D Lee is a superb defensive first baseman.  Great.    As defensive positions go, that's one of the least important and the difference between a great one and a good one is not that big.   And yet, if you listen to at least some people, defense at first is more important than offense.  

And as for offense, D Lee is a good offensive first baseman, better than league average.  However, if you look at the projections on another thread, most have him exceeding his second best season, and many have him exceeding his career year.  Even though he is coming off of a serious injury.

In sum, I speak unpleasant facts and it upsets many of the Polyanna's that post here.   Tough.

by frustratedfan on Feb 21, 2007 4:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Pollyannas...
doesn't need an apostrophe as it does not denote possession for that particular noun.  FWIW, of course.

UZI

"I'm not pissed because you said 'gizzards', I'm pissed because my fingers are burning" - My wife, Christina.

by Ozgreeder on Feb 21, 2007 4:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we find it "unpleasant"
because many of your "facts" are incorrect. Even with some of the ridiculously incorrect opinions that I see posted here, I don't think I've EVER seen anyone argue that first base defense is more important than the offense. Yes, you are right: first base is one of the least demanding defensive positions on the entire field. Your brilliant "theories" have been common knowledge in baseball for most of the history of the game. I agree that Lee probably doesn't save many errors, but if you're going to come here posting diaries with your theories, you need to come up with more evidence than this weak, unelaborated post that you clearly pondered for 10 seconds before posting.

Plus, I find it funny that you're accusing us of overvaluing the defensive responsibilities of first basemen, since you've been whining for months about how Soriano is hardly an upgrade over Pierre since he's a defensive liability (completely disregarding the fact that center/right field defense is also entirely secondary to center/right field offense).

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Feb 21, 2007 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Defense
Once again another attack on the poster and not the idea.   It was clearly a throw off diary.  (As opposed to the cold hard facts that I have presented about Soriano).  

The problem with Soriano Defense is that we are not talking about the difference between a competent major league player and a great defensive player (ala Lee and your typical MLB first baseman) we are talking about the difference between a horrific defensive liability and a major league average defensive player.  

Is Soriano an upgrade over Pierre?  Sure.   But he's not nearly the upgrade that most Cub fans seem to think.   Look at his statistics.   Even his career year, while good, pales when compared to great years of great (and even good) players.  He has Hall of Fame stats as a second baseman BUT HE IS NOT PLAYING SECOND.  He has Hall of the Good or Very Good Stats (at best) in the outfield.   Add in his horrible outfield defense, and presto, he's not nearly the upgrade that the Cub fans think.

But hey, insanity is running rife on this site right now.  We have near universal picking of the Cubs as the winner of the Central.  Even though they were the WORST TEAM IN THE NL last season with 96 loses.  It would be a near historic turn around.   (And the off season pick-ups consist of a career league average pitcher, the worst regular starting pitcher in the NL last year (and one of the worst seasons ever put up by a starter), a career bench player who had his career year last year, a player who was putting up Hall of Fame numbers at a defensive position who will play a less demanding position where these stats are not nearly as good, and a player who is on the down slope of his career who is going to take AB's away from one of the few good young players on the team.  In sum the Cubs haven't improved while the Cardinals have gotten better simply by the act of losing Marquis).  We have Derrek Lee being picked to put up career stats exceeding all but one of his seasons (and many have him exceeding his career year) even though he is coming off a serious injury of the kind that can linger for a long long time.

In a word, at least on this site, Cub fans are being delusional.  And delusional people don't like it when they are shown to be wrong.

by frustratedfan on Feb 21, 2007 11:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cold hard facts?
Defense is simply not as important as offense...not even nearly so. Hence, your 'cold hard facts' about Soriano are somewhat irrelevant. Pierre was below average defensively and offensively, where Soriano is average to below average defensively, but above average offensively. The career league average pitcher (Lilly) ought to benefit from moving to a strong division to a weak one. Marquis was a bad move, I'll agree. Ward is a better bat than anyone we had off the bench last season, by far. Soriano's stats in CF are very nearly as valuable as his stats would be at 2B, and hey, CF is traditionally thought of as a defensive position. And despite what Muskat may write, I don't really see Floyd taking ABs from Murton, and if he does, it will be because he's healthy and productive, which one could hardly call a bad thing. That simply gives the Cubs an even deeper bench with more options. I also laugh that you can say the Cardinals have improved when they're looking at Braden Looper to fill out the rotation. As for Derrek Lee, he certainly looked to be something close to his 2005 form when we saw him last season, save for when he tried to come back too early from his injury. Add to all that that Wade Miller and Mark Prior are from early accounts, pitching effectively. I'll believe that when I see them shutting down MLB hitters, but it's encouraging. To say that the Cubs haven't improved since last season is illogical, disingenuous, and just plain silly. And no, this is not an attack against you; it is an attack on your unbridled pessimism and illogical opinions. You seem to take it personally when people rightly attack your positions as idiotic. In a word, you are the one being delusional, and as you say, delusional people don't like it when they are shown to be wrong.
ROTHSCHILD!

by Perkins on Feb 22, 2007 5:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would also like to add
That every team in the NL Central, other than the Cubs, seems either to have stood pat or taken steps backward. St. Louis, while lacking Marquis, also has an even more patchwork rotation than we do. And Edmonds is a year older and in decline offensively. The Reds look about the same as last year, so I can see them contending for awhile, but as usual, fading out sometime mid-summer. The Brewers are reasonably solid, but their rotation has too many question marks. Besides that, I'd take the Cubs at most positions over what they have to offer. The Astros have declined precipitously. While they added Carlos Lee, their idea of making up for Clemens and Pettite is Jason Jennings, and they gave up way too much to get him. I will refrain from speaking of the Pirates, for reasons obvious to all. All told, I see much of the NL Central as looking very similar. Every team has exactly one dominant pitcher, and several ranging from question marks to decent. I'd say the Cubs have the greatest depth, though, which gives them the advantage. I'd guess the winner of the division comes in at under 90 wins.
ROTHSCHILD!

by Perkins on Feb 22, 2007 5:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What do most Cubs fans think exactly?
I think you are generalizing a bit. "Near universal." I don't buy it. The consensus seems to be that this team has the possibility of contending; if things go well, they could win. The only 'near universal' opinion I see is that the Cubs are this year improved.

Also, I think it is pretty clear that the Cubs underachieved last year; that is, their record and last place finish is not exactly a good indication of the team's ability. Now, I'm not saying I thought they were very good last year; I am merely saying that I don't think they were that bad.

Moreover, I think that the reason the projections for Lee are so optimistic (perhaps too optimistic) has something to do with what people view as a general rise in his performance over the past few years, as he moves into that elusive 'prime'. The idea is that he was coming into his own when he was injured, and people are projecting that he is going to now move back into what I would call his own. If he gets around the number of at bats BCB projects, he his production will approach the BCB average proj. It might fall a bit short, but I don't expect by much.

Regarding the idea that Lee's defensive benefit is a myth: I think it's silly. The fact that Ramierez's errors didn't increase when Lee went down is certainly something less than proof of Lee's mediocrity. The guy is clearly an active first baseman, with range, and he offers a big target for his infielders; plus, he has soft hands and a talent for digging out poor throws. That is a benefit. I think that a more tactful approach on your part, or at least one that would have generated a better response, would have been using Ramierez's numbers to point out the admiral defensive job the replacements did last year, thus asserting that we are not going to see a boost defensively this year...something like that.

--And I don't think anyone knows what to expect defensively from Soriano, including Pinella. As an outfielder, he's still learning. What am I sure of is this: the guy is a talented ballplayer, and this talent will factor into his ability to learn a new position and to get better ; he has the tools, and I hope he is solid. I expect some issues to arise, but we simply don't need him to be great in the field to be a huge plus to this team.

The key, as always, will be the club's ability to remain healthy. If they stay relatively healthy, average performances from the players will make this team competitive; if a few players go down for long stretches, then some guys will have to step.

Yes, I will. Yes.

by buckmulligan on Feb 22, 2007 12:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ah,
that was meant as a reply to above post on "defense."

Stupid buttons.

by buckmulligan on Feb 22, 2007 12:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Old Dog New Tricks
I notice that every keeps saying "Soriano's going to improve on defense".   What in his career suggests that he will improve on defense?  He started as a substandard 2nd baseman and his defense did not improve, it got worse.   Had he improved, or even stayed the same, he would still be playing second.   Why should the fact that he has now switched to the outfield mean that suddenly he is going to care about and work on defense?   He knows that his bread is buttered with offense.

by frustratedfan on Feb 22, 2007 8:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is not what I said
I said any ballplayer with his level of talent has the potential to improve, and I hope he does. That being said, we don't need him to improve much, only a little.

by buckmulligan on Feb 22, 2007 11:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Frustratedfan
I posted a diary where several Cub players saw their error totals decrease in their first season playing with Lee. any reason why you choose to ignore that?

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 22, 2007 11:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

of course
it doesn't fit with his theory while on a drive home from work.  <sigh>

by socalbob on Feb 24, 2007 10:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon
Start posting about the Cubs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Reversal of opinion...Bradley will not be moved
Yelloncard_small
Baseball Picture Puzzles Overflow 1
Derrick_rose_poster_by_rokasm_small
You know you want him, Get it done Jim!
Yelloncard_small
Baseball Player Picture Puzzles
66103_small
The Ordinary Wizarding Levels of Milton Bradley & the 2009 Chicago Cubs

Recent FanPosts

Cubs_small
Cubs HR Over/Under
Cubs_ying_yang_small
OT Aged Stadiums
Small
Here's a thought
Jake_fox_small
25th Annual Cubs Convention
Bucky_small
OT: Annual Thanksgiving  Thread
Dscn2381_small
Cubs 2010 2B and "the L word"
Cubswin712_small
Is there anyway we trade some of our high-priced players?
Yelloncard_small
Milton Bradley Named NL "LVP" By Joe Posnanski
Self-portrait-4_small
Crazy Idea: Rob Quinlan
10424_528302137858_173702948_31567344_967269_n_small
OT: Big Ten Football Thread, Nov. 21

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Would you blow up the farm system for Halladay?
FanGraphs calls Grabow a "waste of cash."
Fangraphs hasn't given up on Geo, should you?
Baseball America's Top 10 Cubs Prospects
An animated tribute to the no-hitter that Pirates pitcher Dock Ellis threw on June 12, 1970. Simply...

Recent FanShots

Cubs' next major hire: marketing guru
Zambrano attends Bears game
Cubs install sign boards in bleachers to block Horseshoe Casino (Budweiser) building...
This one is for you sabermetricians
A Chicagoan, Part Of Cardinals Ownership Group, Dies
Making Fun Of Tim Lincecum's Hair...
Minor League Ball Interview With Billy Beane
Castillo Rumor Won't Go Away
Minor League FA's

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

SPONSORS

Recent Stories in News

Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: Cubs Convention 2010
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: General 2009 Ticket Exchange
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: September 29-October 4 Homestand

Managing Editor

Yelloncard_small Al

Editorial Cartoonist

Toonmike_small toonmike

Contributors

Dsc_0139_small holy mackerel

100px-boisehawkscaplogo_small Josh77

Small shawndgoldman