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Tuesday Hall of Fame Veteran's Announcement

A place to talk about Ronnie's chances...

Star-divide

I figured I'd post this diary because I'm sure a lot of us are interested in discussing Ron Santo's chances of making it into the Hall of Fame thru the Veteran's Committee tomorrow, or else bemoaning their short-sightedness.  So a couple questions:

  1. Will Ronnie make it?
  2. Here's a question for someone to look at with the research skills and time, but what changes are there to the Veterans' Committee makeup since the last election in 2005, and will these changes help or hurt Ronnie's chances?
  3. Will anyone make it from the Veterans' Ballot?
  4. If no one makes it, should the Veterans' Committee be abolished as an elitist waste of time (giving false hope to guys like Santo when the snobs on the Committee want to keep their club to themselves)?
Any other questions? Thoughts?
Poll
On Tuesday, Ron Santo will be:
Clicking his prosthetic heels together in joy!
48 votes
Screaming "OHHHH NOOOOO!" as if Brant Brown dropped another pop fly....
38 votes

86 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 32 comments

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As for me...
...(and yes, I realize it's lame to comment on your own diary first)...

I think Ron makes it.  I think Mike Schmidt's open letter/editorial this year makes it more likely they'll let in Ron, plus the desire to reward "clean" players over steroids cheats, plus the fact that having Ron, Cal Ripken, and Tony Gwynn inducted together would be a great message and a way to divert attention to the one guy (McGwire) conspicuously not being enshrined.  Oh, yeah...and Ryne Sandberg is on the Committee now, and should be pretty vocal about giving Santo his due during the meetings.

Finally, I think the Veterans' Committee realizes they may just lose their vote if they don't use it, particularly with a guy as qualified and popular as Santo on the ballot.

by Chadnudj on Feb 26, 2007 2:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think...
.... your last sentence kind of nails it. He doesn't need that many more votes on top of what he got two years ago (presuming he gets all of those votes again, and I don't see any reason he won't).

I say he makes it.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 26, 2007 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And really....
...with Sandberg and Sutter making it recently (NL Central guys who surely had contact with Ronnie), plus Cal Ripken (a converted 3B with a great sense of history about baseball who would clearly recognize Ron Santo's greatness in light of Brooks Robinson's career at the same position at the same time), and the whole "let's reward the steroids-free guys" idea which I think is gaining traction, you HAVE to vote in Ron Santo.

He was, I think, about 8 votes shy last time.  This Old Cub will probably help a bit, along with the new blood on the Committee.  I just can't see Ron not making it, although I thought the same thing in 2005, as I recall.

by Chadnudj on Feb 26, 2007 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ripken and Gwynn
can't vote this time around I don't think. Since their not really in yet.
Kyle

by Kyle Turney on Feb 26, 2007 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at the numbers
Santo received 52 votes (65% of 80 votes) last time. 3 committee members didn't cast votes. There are 84 members this year. New voters include Peter Gammons, Jerry Coleman (Padres broadcaster), Gene Elston (Astros broadcaster but worked for Cubs from 1954-1958), Ryne Sandberg, Wade Boggs and Bruce Sutter. Obviously these 6 guys replace 5 guys who are gone. Haven't been able to figure out who left yet. I'm guessing votes from Sandberg, Sutter and Gammons are a lock. Elston wasn't in Chicago for Ron's years so not sure if the Cub's connection there is useful or not. I would assume that at the worst, Ron picks up at least 2 votes due to the turnover here.

I think you're both right though. I think he'll get in. What an omen that might be if does make it in.

Kyle

by Kyle Turney on Feb 26, 2007 2:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Departing Members
Al Lopez and Kirby Puckett moved from living members of the Hall of Fame to Eternal Members of the the Hall of Fame.  I believe that the rest of the changes are in Spinks and Ford award winners.

by frustratedfan on Feb 26, 2007 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right
if nobody gets elected by the new Veterans Vote this time, the voting procedure gets scrapped.  Cooperstown does not exist to NOT put people in the HoF.  They need inductees at a steady rate to bring in visitors and call attention to the museum.  They want veteran elected because honoring old men for their accomplishments as young men just looks good.

The old committee was doing its job inducting people, but it was unfortunately inducting the wrong people, and everyone knew it.  The number one criteria for getting in seemed to be being an old teammate of a member of the committee.  I think the final straw was Ted Williams' efforts to get Dom DiMaggio in the Hall. Now Dom was a good player and he wouldn't have been the worst player in Cooperstown . . . but c'mon.  It's Dom DiMaggio and he's hardly in immortal territory.  And it was so obviously a naked attempt at Williams rewarding an old buddy rather than objectively asking "Who's the best player not in the Hall of Fame?"

Had Williams not died, I imagine Dom DiMaggio would have made it into Cooperstown.  And that would be used for decades as an argument for putting in Vada Pinson, Ken Griffey Sr., Roy Sievers and heck, Ray Lankford.

The new veterans vote seems to have swung the other way, with several players arguing that no one was worthy to sit with them. On top of that, you've got dozens of players voting for their own teammates and coaches but this committee isn't stacked with, say, friends of Ted Williams or Frankie Frisch, like the other one was, so no one knows 75% of the electorate.  It does seem that some of the ringleaders of the "no one should get in" group, i.e. Mike Schmidt and Reggie Jackson, have softened their position and that should help Santo and maybe Hodges.  (Although I don't think Gil Hodges belongs in.  Torre would be a better choice as a player and as a manager.)

My guess is that it is going to be very, very close on Santo--somewhere between 73% and 77% of the vote.  The upper end gets him in.  The lower end doesn't.

by Josh77 on Feb 26, 2007 3:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm afraid to get my hopes up
The predictions among the media seem to be a mixed bag.

I even have my entire non sports internet group on pins and needles including several who say that they will have their local sports talk radio stations on at the time.  

For Cub fans spring training combines the eternal hope of spring with the irrational belief in the impossible.

by kerrysotherwife on Feb 26, 2007 11:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what time
is this all scheduled to go down at?
DON'T TRADE PIE!

by kylejo on Feb 27, 2007 8:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sorry
just saw that al answered this below
DON'T TRADE PIE!

by kylejo on Feb 27, 2007 8:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sweet..
i was just about to ask when we would find out if he gets in your not.  I hope to god he gets in, becuase like he said in an interview having to wait another 2 years would be like a life time for him.

by Kchance on Feb 26, 2007 2:34 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I am keeping...
..my fingers crossed.  I just don't see how you can have a career like Ronny's, not to mention the heart and soul that he has devoted to baseball his entire life.  It is time for him to be rewarded for all of the effort that he has put into this game.
Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Feb 26, 2007 2:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Apparently...
he broke one of the many unwritten rules of baseball, which is you dont lobby to be voted into the HOF. Which is a crock of s*&t.

by FullyKraeusened on Feb 26, 2007 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True...
...I mean, is it that bad to say that you think you should be in, and would be honored to make it?

Personally, I think it's worse to have Joe Morgan on Sunday Night Baseball constantly praising your glories, a la Tony Perez and Dave Concepcion....that's just embarassing and shameless.

by Chadnudj on Feb 26, 2007 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't
seem to hurt Phil Rizzuto any.

Once upon a time it was an unwritten rule that you didn't campaign for an Oscar.  Once people started campaigning and winning Oscars, that kind of went out the window.

by Josh77 on Feb 26, 2007 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see it
The HoFers may sing a new tune but when it comes time to vote, their actions won't match their words. I don't see Santo getting in. I don't see anyone getting in. After that, the HoF is going to have to revisit the process.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 26, 2007 3:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Each time
so far Santo has gotten more votes. OK I know it's only been twice but Ron is much more popular now than he was 5 years ago. There is more pressure on the committee, there are some new members that will surely vote for him. Remember Peter Gammons is on the record calling Ron the "best player not in the Hall of Fame". All these factors should be enough to garner him the 8-11 additional votes he needs.
Kyle

by Kyle Turney on Feb 26, 2007 3:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Who...
...wouldn't love to be a fly on the wall at that meeting? (Is there a meeting? Do guys get up and give speeches about who should make it?)

I like Gammons and Sandberg being on there to help....Boggs might vote for Ronnie as a fellow 3B (although who really knows)....I figure Sutter is a lock too, and Elston would have seen Ronnie play as an Astros broadcaster, so he might go towards Ronnie too.

And as someone said earlier, it seems like Schmidt and Reggie have softened their stances, so it looks like Ronnie might get the call.

It may be snowing now and tomorrow outside, but if Ronnie makes it, it'll feel about 80 degrees and sunny in Chicago....

by Chadnudj on Feb 26, 2007 5:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

committee needs to go
They need to rework it somehow, as it has become a place to hold grudges for things that happened 30+ years ago.  And the more years that piss and guys like Santo don't get in, the easier we forget their great accomplishments as players.

Also, can the veterans vote in guys like Blyleven and Gossage who are still on the writers ballot?

by miltowncubbie on Feb 26, 2007 6:53 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nope...
... former players who remain on the BBWAA HoF ballot are not eligible to be voted in by the Veterans Committee.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 26, 2007 7:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The process
This article

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/news/2007/election/vc/index.htm

pretty well details the vet committee election process.

Kyle

by Kyle Turney on Feb 26, 2007 9:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My Hope
Is that Ronnie Santo gets the call to the Hall of Fame today. I am emtionally invested in this as I was 2 years ago when I marked this date on my calander. This is the absolute right thing to do and it comes at a time when things don't seem to be going right. Bad choices are being made all over the place such as the steroid issue and the Direct TV money grab thet MLB is doing. This choice would help to off balance a lot of the bad ones.

Here to hoping OUR Ronnie gets the call of his dreams today.

Sosa back in baseball can't be all bad. Long live the Gladiator!!!

by Scott G F on Feb 27, 2007 7:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I voted no
Not because I think that Ron Santo doesn't deserve to get in, but because I have little faith in the Veteran's Committee to do the right thing and elect anyone into the HOF this year.
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Feb 27, 2007 7:26 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Man I'm nervous....
...is anyone else really nervous about this?  When is the announcement made? And will anyone else be cheering in their office if Ronnie's dream comes true today?

Come on, Veterans - do the right thing.  Admit Ron - heck, admit him with a couple other guys, too, if you need to (Curt Flood? Luis Tiant? Gil Hodges? Roger Maris?), I don't care.  But just put one of the 10 best third basemen of ALL TIME where he belongs - in Cooperstown.

by Chadnudj on Feb 27, 2007 7:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The announcement...
... will be at 1 pm Central time.
"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 27, 2007 7:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Top 10?
At the time he retired he was number 2 (at worst number 3).   Here's now somewhere between 4 and 7.

TOp 10 is understating his credentials.

by frustratedfan on Feb 27, 2007 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree
I have him as #6, behind Schmidt, Mathews, Brett, Boggs, and Home Run Baker--and the latter is a bit questionable.  But he's way ahead of guy like Brooks Robinson, Pie Traynor, Freddie Lindstrom, and George Kell.  When you're clearly better than half the enshired guys at your position, it ought to be a no-brainer.  But it should have been a no-brainer 20 years ago.

by bleacher on Feb 27, 2007 10:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Except
20 years ago he wouldn't have been better than only half of the guys at his position.   It would have been
Mathews
Baker/Santo
Traynor
Lindstom
Kell

That's equal or better to 4/5ths of the rest of the category.  Its a no-brainer, which is why it is such a shock that the no-brains haven't done it yet.

by frustratedfan on Feb 27, 2007 5:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hopeful this time
I'll be watching the clock in my office today, hoping for good news for Santo.

Given the changes in the voting roster and Schmidt's public argument in favor, I think this is finally his year.

Drifting ... drifting ... foul.

by mlf on Feb 27, 2007 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm nervous, too
I don't trust the VC, and Ronnie needs to get something like 8 more votes than he got 2 years ago.  I'm worried that he's going to come up a couple short.

I do think, though, that if he came up a couple short, the VC--in the interest of its own survival--would do a canvassing of those who didn't vote for him.

Personally, I think the idea that other HoFs should be the gatekeepers is a little absurd.  Most of these guys never played with or against Santo, and many of them have primitive ideas of how to measure someone in the context of his era.

The Hall is filled with people who don't belong--and has failed to enshire many who do--like Stan Hack, George Gore, and Bill Dahlen.

by bleacher on Feb 27, 2007 10:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hope this isn't an omen.....
Last week, I requested This Old Cub from my library.  I was notified yesterday that the DVD had come in.  I went to the library to pick it up, and they couldn't find it.  They said they would notify me again if they find it.  

Kasey

by kaseyi on Feb 27, 2007 8:52 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

My friends
My friends in my main non sports net group say they know 2 things about baseball (those that aren't baseball fans we have many who are)
  1.  Ron Santo belongs in the Hall of Fame.
  2.  Joe Morgan is evil.
For Cub fans spring training combines the eternal hope of spring with the irrational belief in the impossible.

by kerrysotherwife on Feb 27, 2007 11:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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