A trade in the works?

by Rev Gunia on Mar 13, 2007 2:04 PM CDT Comment 56 comments

Since I didn't see it anywhere else on BCB, I'll add this post.

mlbtraderumors.com writes that the Cubs are looking to make a trade before opening day.

MLBTradeRumors.com has word from a reputable source that the Cubs are looking to make a deal. They are after one more solid player, but I'm not sure what position they're trying to fill.

A possibly related piece of info is that a Cubs scout was in attendance at a recent Braves/Blue Jays spring game. That pretty much sums up the extent of what I know; anything else would be speculation.

Browsing that box score, I'm not sure what would make sense. Josh Towers is available and was on display, but how does that help the Cubs? Jason Marquis can already post a 5.50 ERA. The Cubs have Jacque Jones to spare, but neither the Braves not the Jays need a right fielder. Take your best guess in the comments; I really don't know what could be cooking. Please, no Andruw Jones speculation.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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i read somewhere else,

but I dont remember where, that they're looking for another middle infielder so they can play both Theriot and DeRosa at the same time- with Theriot playing RF.

don't platoon Murton!

by dahcar on Mar 13, 2007 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

that's pretty funny

I would venture to guess that this scenario will never happen.

Either SS, CF, or P would be where the Cubs would make a deal. Soriano would move to a corner spot.

Theriot is not going to play everyday and we certainly aren't going to make a deal to get him in the lineup.

MLB Traderumors is just not very accurate.

by socalbob on Mar 13, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.....

From what I have seen, I do not think there is going to be a big market for Jacque. His arm looks as week as last year.

It is funny, but it looks like the Cubs may have an arm or two to burn. IMHO, I would stand pat and see how things shake out. With this club's history of injuries and Marquis on the roster, I would keep a few extra pitchers just in case......

"I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this." Sue369

by timeforachange on Mar 13, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What I meant was

Theriot would come in against lefties for Jones, not play every day. If we dont have another middle infielder on the bench, we waste Theriot's ability to be a super utility and limit him to backing up Izturis and Derosa.

don't platoon Murton!

by dahcar on Mar 13, 2007 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lot's of young arms

And Hendry has already proven he'll deal them when he sent Ryu to the Rays. Doesn't seem like the best time to be dealing prospects though, who trades good vets for prospects this time of year? Maybe a combo of Jones and a pitcher or two for something good?

by pageian on Mar 13, 2007 2:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i saw speculation

of jones and izturis to the braves for renteria, with Pie coming up to play center or right.

i don't know if that makes sense from a braves perspective, but i wouldn't mind it.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Mar 13, 2007 3:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd like that

if only because it would get us rid of Izturis and allow Pie to play in center and Soriano in right. Not sure what I think of Renteria, except he must be getting up there in years - definitely past his prime.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Mar 13, 2007 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be a great trade

I know that Renteria ain't what he use to be, but his bat is a tad better then Izturis's and probably comparable on defense. We gain a spot for Pie and thus gain better outfield defense. Sounds like Pie is ready and so we should find a way to play him.

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be a great deal.

I imagine we might have to give them a bullpen arm, too, and perhaps get some mid-level prospect in return.

But I'd do something like that in a heartbeat.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 13, 2007 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This would help both teams

If we did pull this off, we would have arguably one of the three best 1-4 in baseball and a pretty good look rest of the line-up. And, Renteria is left handed?

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope

he's a righty. too bad.

by madtown on Mar 13, 2007 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

damn

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why would this help us?

And why in the world would we want to help another team (especially a NL team)?

If you combined their stats (Izturis & JJ), we would be giving up roughly 25-35 hrs, 115-120 rbi, and a cumulative .270 BA for (Renteria) who hit 17 hrs, 70 rbi, and a slightly better .293 BA.
Plus if we threw in Miller (a potential 10-12 game winner), we lose a 5th starter,and I just don't see how this helps the Cubs. In addition, Renteria bats righthanded only.

In spite of his potential, Felix Pie IS NOT a proven commodity yet, at the Major League level, so we really can't go around saying for sure that he will put up JJ-like numbers this year.

Renteria has steadily declined over the last few years and had a really bad year in Boston not too long ago. Plus, if he is the so-called "savior" at shortstop for the Cubs, then why has he been with 4 different teams in the last 6 years?

I say no to this trade!

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Mar 13, 2007 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For starters

We have, unusually, a surplus of pitching and as of right now (with the way he's looking) Guzman is favorite for the #5 position. So that leaves Miller out.

Having Pie's defense in the outfield more then makes up for the, 'possible' decline in offense from losing jones. Jones has a freakin wet noodle for an arm and not a great amount of range to make up for it.

Renteria, no, he isn't the savior, but did I say that? True, he was bad in Boston, but he returned to the NL and was a fairly decent producer for a SS with GG caliber defense.

So, no, I don't see anything wrong with this trade.

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oooops,..

...we posted at the same time, but I think we were basically saying the same thing.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 13, 2007 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You left something out here....

...If you combined their stats (Izturis & JJ), we would be giving up roughly 25-35 hrs, 115-120 rbi, and a cumulative .270 BA for (Renteria) who hit 17 hrs, 70 rbi, and a slightly better .293 BA.

IF this trade happened.....and IF Pie was brought up....then you would have to factor in his stats as well. All you did was take Jones' stats and Izzy's stats and subtract them only adding in Renteria. There would still be the stats of the player to replace Jones. IF it was Pie and IF he shows anything comparable to ST, then you would have to figure probably another 20 HRs into the mix. With the better defense that Pie has over Jones (not to mention the ages of the two players), then I think this would be a great deal. Also if we gave up Izturis and Jones for Renteria, I don't see throwing someone like Miller into the deal....probably someone more like Ohman.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 13, 2007 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ha ha

yeah, I was just about to bring up that fact that he didn't add Pie's stats into the mix either. So, pretty much swap out a few aging players for a younger and better defensive team. While really not sacrificing a whole lot offensively.

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Using predicted WARP as the measure

Jones (2.8) + Izturis (2.5) = 5.3 wins above replacement.
Renteria (4.3) + Pie (5.0) = 9.3 wins above replacement.

So this trade would net the Cubs four wins? Of course, Pie's performance at the major league level is hard to predict, because he's yet to take a major league atbat.

Given how well Pie's been playing this spring, I think that I would have been willing to make this proposed trade regardless of what those statistics have to say. It would worry me to get rid of the Cubs' only outfielder who is a healthy and established major leaguer at that position, but I have confidence in the abilities of Pie defensively and Soriano athletically.

by gjdow on Mar 13, 2007 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

question Gavin

how could you pencil in Pie as a 5.0 WARP?

Jones is only a 2.8 WARP and we would be ecstatic if Pie could perform at that level as a rookie.

by socalbob on Mar 13, 2007 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball Prospectus

About half of it is defense.

by gjdow on Mar 13, 2007 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball Prospectus

is smoking crack then. It's a reach to have him that high.

by socalbob on Mar 13, 2007 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PECOTA...

...was pretty accurate last year, posting a .73 correlation for major league hitters. So, while it's not perfect, it does have a track record.

by cwyers on Mar 13, 2007 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure

that's why I wrote a "reach" as the .73 correlation would attest. I just can't believe the WARP would have Pie as almost 2X as valuable as Jones. That's all.

by socalbob on Mar 14, 2007 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have you ever seen Jones' throw?

My six year old son has a better arm than he does.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 14, 2007 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what I saw

I wouldn't call throwing. I called it boucing, I think.

Throwing from the OF does not equate to Pie being almost 2X WARP than Jones. That's all I'm saying. I think Pie would be lucky to post .250 12 HR and 60 RBI in his rookie campaign. Jones did post .285, 27 HR, and 81 RBI. He wasn't brutal as is often reported in these circles.

I just disagree with the WARP rating.

by socalbob on Mar 14, 2007 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The other thing to consider...

Is that we still have Cliff Floyd, and while he still remains unlikely to stay healthy all season, he too could sub in right field if Pie (assuming he ended up in the corner) stumbled a bit. I fully believe Murton be capable of 15-20 home runs over a full season, and Pie/Floyd should be able to do AT LEAST that much as well, even if Floyd didn't play the entire season. Add that to Soriao's 30+ homers, and you've got an outfield offense that's providing a decent amount of pop.

I don't think losing Jones is the right move, necessarily, but we could live with it if we improved SS by that large of a margin.

by NocNoc on Mar 13, 2007 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pie

"in right field if Pie (assuming he ended up in the corner)"

No, the idea would be that if Pie was brought up then Soriano would move to RF. A corner position would be much easier for Soriano to cover than CF which is a position than Pie looks pretty darn smooth at.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 14, 2007 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Might I ask...

...just where you heard that from?

I understand that Pie is a superior center fielder than Soriano could hope to be all season, but the things I've read have led me to believe that he would not end up in center if they decided to bring him up this year.

Did the Cubs not say that they wanted to give Soriano one position and have him "stick" there? Have they not said that they felt his athleticism was better suited to center than right? I distinctly remember reading these thoughts over the past few weeks in the local papers and what-not...

Besides of which, the argument really doesn't have to be made that right field at Wrigley is a tough position to crack. And personally, I'd rather have a superior defender (Pie) out there than the standard-issue big bat (Soriano) at this point.

by NocNoc on Mar 14, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First..

...this whole thing is nothing more than a rumor, the only thing that I have heard Pinella say is that Pie will be in Iowa, thus this would all be a moot point.

Second..I have read more projections in the local papers that were wrong over the years than were right. Unless there is a quote from Pinella, I wouldn't count on anything that was written. If Pie started the season in CF and Soriano started the season in RF, then he would still only be playing one position.

If this trade were to happen sometime in May, June, or July, then I would agree that Soriano would remain in CF and Pie would play right. I also agree with you that I would probably have Pie in RF because that (IMO) is the tougher outfield position to play at Wrigley.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 14, 2007 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we're in agreement...

...because clearly, Pie should (and probably won't) end up in right field, at least from a defensive standpoint. I applaud Soriano for being flexible to basically acquiesce center to Pie in this morning's papers, saying he would shift to right if the team felt that would be for the best. I don't think that'd be a great idea, but you have to like a guy that's willing to do what the team needs him to do.

And having someone that defensively good in center would be something to see, wouldn't it?

by NocNoc on Mar 14, 2007 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

For being the sensible one here. People keep cutting Izzy short on this site. I am telling all he will have a very good year in the field and at the plate.

"Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead"

by wild bill on Mar 13, 2007 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I haven't..

...I don't have any confidence in him, that is for sure but I am still gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. I think that if he wouldn't have been our return for Maddux then you wouldn't be hearing nearly the criticism on here. I do hope that he is fully recovered and has a good year but I wouldn't put any money on it.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 14, 2007 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's a similar rumor floating around.......

that said scouts were at the Braves game because Hendry is apparently looking at trading for Edgar Renteria. Its from a different site other than MLBtraderumors.com but its based off the same info.
From what I've heard the deal was something like Izturis + Jones + Miller? for Renteria. Its a deal that would work on a few levels........we'd be getting a SS who's won a few GG's and who's a much better hitter than Izturis and is ideally suited for the 2 hole, and we'd also be opening up an OF spot for Pie. I'm not sure if the rumor is legit at all but if it does happen, I'd be pretty happy with it.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Mar 13, 2007 3:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ha ha

my sentiments exactly, even with Miller thrown in as well

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would be huge

even though Renteria is definitely past his prime. He still hit .290 with 14 homers and 17 SBs last year. If he can match that, he'd look great in the 2-hole behind Soriano and ahead of Lee, Ramirez, Barrett and Murton. DeRosa and Pie could fit in at the bottom of the order - even if Pie struggled a bit at the plate, he'd be a hell of a better option in CF than Soriano, who could move to right. And we'd no longer have the All-American Out Izturis to worry about.

Two things that aren't so good - Renteria doesn't have as much power as Jones, so we might miss out on 10 or 15 homers. But perhaps Pie could make up for some of that, as he hit 15 in the minors last year. I really like the idea of bringing Pie up to start the season.

Also, Soriano is no cinch to be dynamite in RF. Wrigley's RF is one of the hardest to play in the majors due to the sun factor during all the day games. But then, Jones was no bargain out there either.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Mar 13, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's only 31

so he should have a few years still left in him. That would be great!

by madtown on Mar 13, 2007 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speculative lineup (if this happened)

Soriano
Renteria
Lee
Ramirez
Murton/Floyd?
Barrett
Derosa
Pie

(could switch Pie and Derosa around)

Not a bad lookin line-up

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't like it

1). Because need lefty hitting in lineup

Suspect Renteria on way down, fast
Rather have extra OF with possible breakdowns from Floyd, can't spare our only power hitting lefthanded bat.
Renteria contract may run a few years we'd get stuck with a guy like Alex G again.
Let's stand pat and see what happens JJ's stock may rise if Pie plays well in minors, can always bring him up and make move to open roster spot in OF

by writerinwrigley on Mar 13, 2007 6:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why would JJ's stock rise?

If Pie continues to impress, other teams would know that we would be looking to Dump JJ to make room for Pie. This, in my opinion, would cause JJ's stock to plummet

by DTJchris on Mar 13, 2007 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Floyd is a lefty

And so is Pie.

by gjdow on Mar 13, 2007 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lefty hitting isn't an option

seems to me Renteria for Izturis would be righty hitting vs. no hitting.

You have no... MARBLES!

by eamuscatuli1881 on Mar 14, 2007 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 14, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like this trade

But I don't like the idea of throwing in Miller too. God forbid someone was to get injured. Plus what happens if Marquis struggles again?

Maybe this is a trade that could be pulled of at the all star break.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Mar 13, 2007 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget...

... Sean Marshall is still around.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 13, 2007 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

where

or where would we ever find a journeyman 5th starter with a mid-80s fastball and long injury history?

just kidding, but wade miller wouldn't be a dealbreaker in any deal for me. there are plenty of young arms that could be called up and be just as mediocre to below average as miller, but with upside.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Mar 14, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree..

Maybe it's a belt and suspenders, but I'd rather keep Miller also. Guzman has had injuries his whole career. Prior is well, Prior. Anyone beyond that is a question mark. Heck even Hill is a question. We all know Marquis recent history. I'd rather have too much pitching than not enough.

Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Mar 14, 2007 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Miller would be the key to the deal

If he doesn't win the fifth starter spot, Hendry will deal him rather than put him in the bullpen. Atlanta and Toronto are two teams that might be interested in him.

However, I believe Miller will get the fifth spot, and Guzman will be the 12th pitcher, as a long man.

The call of the Cub fan, c. 1893: "one long, ravaged, derisive yell...a cyclonic whoop!"

by zambranofan on Mar 13, 2007 7:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The bullpen already looks pretty full

With a 12 man staff I have the staff looking like this:

Zambrano
Lilly
Marquis
Hill
Miller/Guzman

Pen

Wood
Howry
Eyre
Dempster
Cotts
Ohman
Weurtz?

Weurtz is probably the biggest question in the bullpen, but he has pretty nasty stuff. I haven't seen him pitch this spring, but his slider might not move a whole lot in Arizona. If Guzman doesn't make the team as the fifth starter I really don't think they will use him as a long reliever. I think Jim Hendry is going to be forced to make a trade soon. I would opt to trade Miller as I don't think he has a whole lot left in his tank. Going with Guzman as the fifth starter is a big risk as he has not exactly been a healthy pitcher.

The dumbest people I know are those who know it all.

by madog93 on Mar 15, 2007 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cotts

has sucked so far. Way too early to judge, but considering his humungous ERA last year for the Sox, it's definitely worriesome. Not that Aardsma's doing anything spectacular for the Sox - he's got a spring ERA over 11.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Mar 15, 2007 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't like the trade

I hated the trade when I heard about it, but I think with Cotts' post season success and his good year in 2005 he will make the team. Hopefully he will start throwing better real soon. Hendry didn't go out and get Cotts not to have him be on the team. They even thought about using him in the rotation. He will definitely have a spot.

The dumbest people I know are those who know it all.

by madog93 on Mar 15, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't make a trade

with the Braves for Renteria. I'm afraid that it would bring back nightmares of when Jeff Blauser came to our Cubbies and sucked. If the Braves are willing to part with Renteria, then that tells me he will suck.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Mar 13, 2007 8:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I see your point

But just because he's a Braves SS doesn't mean he's Jeff Blauser, just as it wouldn't be like getting Hank Aaron if we traded for a Braves outfielder.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Mar 13, 2007 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to clarify my point.

I would just be hesitant to trade with the Braves because it just seems to me like they really know what they're doing to get the advantage or they've got a magical crystal ball. They just seem to make good decisions, so if you're dealing with them you're probably going to get screwed.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Mar 13, 2007 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I figured that's what you were saying. Good point, because you have to know what you're doing to win all those division titles in a row.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Mar 13, 2007 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

JJ

Had a near-career year last season. This was his peak. Hendry would be selling high for once. If it takes Miller, I'd do it. I hope they don't want Marshall, though.

by Seamer on Mar 14, 2007 12:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

right about the career year

ha and most people probably realize that. Though, with marshall you've got to think hendry would be willing to give the guy up, and wouldnt you too? We have gallagher, veal and guzman who are all potentially better and should all be ready at some point from mid-07 to mid-08 one would think. we have pitching excess, lets use it.

DON'T TRADE PIE!

by kylejo on Mar 14, 2007 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs