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Be Careful What You Myspace

The Cubs' winning streak ended today -- sort of; they split two games, with the loss ending first, so they've also begun a new winning streak of one.

The "B" squad lost to the Rangers 11-9 in Surprise today in front of 6,468. Meanwhile, 8,513 (and a TV audience in Chicago on CSN) watched most of the regulars defeat the Padres 10-6 in a game that ended when the umpires, probably running late for dinner dates, decided to call a double play when a Padres runner ran out of the baseline.

But that's not what I want to write about this evening (I'll add a few game notes at the end of this post).

In the comments on today's open game thread, someone had discovered that Rangers pitcher Brandon McCarthy (who started the game, thus the interest in him) has a Myspace page. I hate loading those pages, because they always start playing music even if you don't want them to, and most of them have the ugliest layouts and backgrounds of any web page you can imagine, making them almost completely unreadable.

Anyway, if you scroll down the comments left on McCarthy's page, you'll find a racist photograph that was found (I know this because the link is prominently displayed on the photo) on a site that I won't even give the dignity of a link (and don't come back here and blame me if you load the page. It is definitely NSFW). That's bad enough -- and it's worse when you discover that the photo was posted by one of McCarthy's teammates, relief pitcher C. J. Wilson, who has his own Myspace page (one of those that is nearly unreadable due to his choice of the Rangers logo and the dark blue color as his background.

At the risk of sounding like a hopelessly out-of-touch curmudgeon...

What the heck are these guys thinking???

It's an interesting coincidence that just today, in the Chicago Tribune, appeared a column by Kathleen Parker warning people of McCarthy and Wilson's generation that stuff they post on the Internet can indeed come back and bite them in the butt when they're looking for work:

The MySpace-Facebook-dot-com generation has come of age, and some are finding that their silly stunts have come back to haunt them as they enter the grown-up marketplace. Others are finding that their private moments are not so private after all.

Three young women featured anonymously in a recent Washington Post article told horror stories of their attempts to find jobs, only to discover that they may have been disqualified by online postings by virtual strangers. Gossip and graphics included.

One, a Phi Beta Kappa graduate and Yale law student who had gotten articles published in law journals, interviewed at 16 firms for a summer job and received no offers. How could that be?

It turned out that she and others had been discussed in not-so-flattering terms on an online message board, AutoAdmit, which is run by a third-year law student at the University of Pennsylvania and a 23-year-old insurance agent, according to the Post. The board boasts as many as 1 million visitors per month, and postings can be anonymous.

Exactly. But people only think such things are anonymous. It's not that difficult to deduce supposedly incognito online identies. Many people create online "personas" for themselves, and wouldn't dream of acting in real life as they do on a website. But that's not how real life works, as those Yale law students learned. What you say and do online is you -- for better or for worse. I put my real name on this site, and I think anyone here who has met me in person would agree that I'm exactly the same in "real life" as I am here.

Those who choose to act otherwise may reap what they sow. I'm not often a fan of Ozzie Guillen's antics, but he may have been right when he recently ripped McCarthy for his attitude when he was a member of the White Sox.

The point here is -- watch what you do online. You never know who's watching.

As for McCarthy -- he talks a big game, but doesn't seem to back it up with performance. Today, Matt Murton and Koyie Hill homered off him, and he wound up giving the Cubs seven hits, a walk and five runs in two innings of work, and that's without Derrek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Alfonso Soriano, Jacque Jones or Michael Barrett in the lineup. Oddly, C. J. Wilson also wound up in this game -- and also allowed a HR, to last year's #1 pick, Tyler Colvin.

I'm thinking McCarthy and Wilson might have more to worry about tonight than how many runs they allowed, too.

Of the 11 runs the Cubs allowed the Rangers in the Surprise game, only four were earned. Ronny "See You In Iowa" Cedeno made two errors, making all four runs off Neal Cotts unearned, and non-roster pitcher Randy Wells' fielding error made all three of his runs unearned as well.

Meanwhile, in Mesa the Cubs had 17 hits, including Ramirez' first HR of the spring. Soriano continued to look a little lost in CF, and Buck Coats lost two catchable balls in LF, hurting his dark-horse chances of making the roster as a supersub. Rich Hill had the ball up in the zone quite a bit, but got away with it; he didn't walk anyone and allowed only one run in his three innings. Cubs pitchers combined for nine strikeouts and only one walk, which ought to please Lou Piniella.

Tomorrow's game against the Royals (we'll see Mark Prior throw in relief) is on CSN Chicago and WGN radio. Till then.

UPDATE [2007-3-9 19:37:48 by Al]: Deadspin has some spin on this issue tonight.

Update [2007-3-10 8:32:58 by Al]: Based on some conversations both here and at Lone Star Ball on this topic, I have changed the title of this post to something less inflammatory. I hope that helps frame this issue in better terms. I did not intend to imply that C. J. Wilson is a racist, and I apologize if I have done so.

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Parker's conclusions are wrong
No surprise, since I think Parker is a moron, but I don't see what those women at Yale Law did wrong.  They didn't participate in this internet site, anonymous classmates of theirs conducted a on-line smear campaign.  This isn't a case of people regretting things they said on line later and having it hurt them.  This is a case of three women being the target of an anonymous hit job.

The article which Parker is talking about is here.  I don't see any indication that these women did anything or even participated on this board.  Yet Parker seems to be blaming the victim.

I didn't click on your "racist" links, because I don't want to see what you're talking about.  But I think these are two totally different issues.  And it certainly does not say anything good about McCarthy and especially Wilson.

by Josh77 on Mar 9, 2007 6:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...
... that wasn't the best example from Parker's article. There were others given about people who had posted stuff about themselves only to find out that it had hurt them in job searches.

These are somewhat separate issues, yes. I still don't think it's cool for a major league baseball pitcher to be posting this sort of stuff on his buddy's site.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 7:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hopefully
kenny lofton will kick both of their butts.
Win Schmins

by HerrProf on Mar 9, 2007 7:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm in no way condoning...
...what C.J. Wilson did, but even if I'm not fond of Myspace, those are their pages and they're free to post whatever they want, we have no business going through them and checking out what they post to each other. The good, clean, politically correct baseball player façade is a thing of the last century.
According to the Chicago Tribune: "The Oakland A's are 32-0 when they have scored more runs than their opponents.

by Carlos on Mar 9, 2007 7:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why...
... do we have "no business" there? If they want to make those sites private, they can do so. They have chosen to make those comments on a public website. Anyone can look -- and that's the entire point.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 7:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are we even sure it's really them
Someone created a myspace page claiming to be Carlos Zambrano last year.

Several soap actors and actresses have been victims of this too.  

For Cub fans spring training combines the eternal hope of spring with the irrational belief in the impossible.

by kerrysotherwife on Mar 9, 2007 11:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry to jump in late
No, these are not "their" pages.  Read the privacy disclaimers on the front pages of myspace and facebook.  Myspace will give (has to give) attorneys anything they want if I send them a subpoena, even on a "private" page.  I just got back documents showing every comment and blog made on the site going back two years.  As a result, an 18 year girl is going to have to answer some not-so-nice questions about her pot and shoplifting habits.

The morale--be careful what you post.

by TC Cubby on Mar 10, 2007 5:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No there weren't
There were some theoretical examples that she gives and a quote from a woman who does an on-line porn magazine who says "It's not going to keep me from having a job" and then Parker writes "Famous last words, perhaps" but no evidence that it actually has hurt that woman (or even that's she's on the job market.)

She's got one quote saying research indicates that one-third of employers have denied someone a job because of on-line material according to the Wash Post.  That's her evidence.  It's a study from something called the "Poneman Institute," which as far as I can tell is legitimate but run by a guy who consults with corporations on privacy issues and sells privacy software for a living.

I think that she and you actually have a point--Google may not be forever, but it's damn close.  And privacy concerns are an issue.  I just think she spent half her article going after a bunch of victims of cyberstalking and blaming, by inference at least, one of them for it because she committed the crime of being "hot."

by Josh77 on Mar 9, 2007 8:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is crazy
I wonder what people are thinking sometimes.

Myspace seems to bring out the stupid in people.

What motivates underage people to post photos of themselves drinking alcohol?

And that photo is really bad. What year is this?

phat

by phatass on Mar 9, 2007 6:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This is...
...definitely the work of a TV news producer...

by Rynot on Mar 9, 2007 6:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

reply
"The point here is -- watch what you do online. You never know who's watching."

i know this isn't your point, but some of the things done/said here shouldn't be said even if the world isn't watching. it's just not civil behavior, and if mccarthy or these other people are truly like that, i'm glad they were exposed.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Mar 9, 2007 7:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely correct.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 7:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny..
McCarthy was the next Tom Seaver when the Sox had him. Now Sox apologists are saying they never thought he was that good. Can't have it both ways..
Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Mar 9, 2007 7:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

So
was Neal Cotts. He was at least a 1-2 man starter. Bit listen to the Sox fans now, he never was that good.
"Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead"

by wild bill on Mar 9, 2007 7:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair
Check out what Cub fans said about Corey Patterson circa 2001.

by Josh77 on Mar 9, 2007 8:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I might add...
Hee Sop Choi
Dave Kelton
Bobby Hill
Mark Prior?

by DrCrawdad on Mar 9, 2007 11:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And the list
could go on and on...  for both teams.
MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Mar 9, 2007 11:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sox not unique then...
And it's wrong to claim that it's somehow unique for the Sox to trade a formerly hyped prospect and then word gets out that they were not happy with the prospect.

by DrCrawdad on Mar 9, 2007 11:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree
But sometimes it hurts to look in the mirror...
MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Mar 9, 2007 11:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't
understand why someone would post something like that. I hope they are exposed.
Adam Haluska...#1 scorer in the Big Ten this season.

by sue369 on Mar 9, 2007 7:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Pat Pat Pat
That loud sound of back patting are Kenny & Ozzie giddy that this is happening to the Rangers. Its a lot easier to tell the scribes at the Sun Times and the Trib "See what we were dealing with" then explain what your player is thinking.

What a pair of idiots.

by N Oakley on Mar 9, 2007 8:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ok
 Anybody here who is judging please take a step down off your moral high horse por favor.

First off, Are we supposed to be shocked that 20 year olds will repost pictures that are slightly racially offensive? Are we really surprised? Do we all need to dust off our soap boxes and start to throw the first stone and condemn?

Take a look at yourselves when you were that age, not one of your friends EVER made a off color comment along a racial line? How many of you punched that person in the face or stormed off? Brandon McCartney is guilty of what exactly? Having his online journal read by another teams fans? What exactly does that say about us if we are trolling around myspace and scrolling down the comment line to see if anything could be offensive? Baseball players are under scrutiny as part of their job but this is ridiculous and for Al or anyone else here to pretend to be surprised this is out there is too much. For gods sake would you want somebody reading your mail Al, (I know for a fact you dont want people reading your other party emails) Or even Tomas who i like to say this behavior isnt civil they need to be exposed is complete bullshit, we are all guilty of countless infractions of the civil behavior code (or whatever that may be) So before you say ANYTHING you should take a look in mirror and then publicly admit to your own faults right here at BCB where have so publicly decided to be self appointed morality judges.

Please people, there are actually enough real problems in the world without having to sensationalize the fact that Brandon McCartney has a (potentially, because lets face it nobody here knows anything about either one of them) racist friend.  

BTW im not even going to bother with the obligatory "Im not condoning it though" spiel because if you want to think im a racist defending racists go right ahead maybe there hasn't been enough speculation around here just yet.

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 8:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

FWIW...
... CJ Wilson, who posts at Lone Star Ball, has posted an apology there in which he says he used poor judgment.

He's a standup guy. The fact is, and the point I was trying to make, and maybe I did it badly, was that this is a bit different than just making an off-color remark among friends. Wilson is a professional athlete, a public figure, and he posted this photo on a public website.

I'm not sure what you mean, incidentally, when you say "I know for a fact you dont want people reading your other party emails". Care to elaborate on that?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 9:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

do you really want me to
because i was strongly warned not too.

and of course he apologized i would be shocked if he came out and said "yeah i hate black people hence the picture i posted"

im glad you realize you didnt handle this well, and it really irks me coming of the wail from other posters about staying on topic about baseball only that its more acceptable to form and politcal correctness posse that to talk about the mundane routine of a weekdays events.

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 9:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh.
This IS related to baseball, isn't it? It's about a baseball player?

I swear, some people take everything literally.

If you'd like to explain what you meant, yes, I'd like to hear. But I think we should take this portion of the discussion to private email, don't you?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 9:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this
has nothing to do with baseball and it never did. All it did was damage the reputation of the site and make some of us seem really preachy. I really dont want to take it to private email because thats were it started and i was a fool to allow it to remain there. Given todays events I think transparency is the way to be. Its when you chastised me for posting a offensive analysis done by gaius marius and then warned me that i had didnt have the right to talk to anyone about you telling me off through a seperate "sneakmail" email account (which by the way YOU have no right to tell me to do) and what really pissed me off is that i never planned on posting a private email between us but the fact that you told me i couldnt sheads some truth on the accusations that you are someone who feels they "own" the internet space in which you occpuy wheras I feel you completly overstepped your bounds in telling me what i can and cant do on a free medium of communication.
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 9:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the deal.
If I send you a private email, no matter what account it comes from, and tell you that it is a private communication that I expect to remain private, I absolutely, positively have that right.

What I post here is public, and anyone can read it, and I write it with that in mind.

What I write to you -- or anyone else -- in a private email is intended to remain private. I trust you can see the difference.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 9:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you have the right
to ASK me Al, and of course ill do that, but you come off (as you do often) as telling me i cant and you cant force me to do shit. If i want to post that email at 1060, TCR  or start my own blog and make it hte main screen I have every right do do that and you could only complain. I wont do that because im not an asshole but you cant order me what what to do with an email you yourself sent to my mailbox
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 9:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the warning.
I won't ever send you a private communication in the future, because I can see you will not respect requests to keep private communications private.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 9:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

god dammit
Where is your email al? is it posted somewhere?

i did nothing but respect your request even if i didnt like it

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 9:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So much anger
I'm pretty sure you can find Al's email if you click where the words "Email Al" are prominently featured in the upper right hand corner of the home page of this website.

by Phred on Mar 9, 2007 10:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True.
And to ksucubbie -- I think we're not understanding each other very well here. Could you explain again what you mean?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 4:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Public figure
Al is correct when he says Wilson is a public figure.  He makes his living by being in the public eye, and in doing so he agrees to live with a certain amount of scrutiny.

The picture was not a private communication.  He has the fact that he's a Ranger posted prominently on his page, so images that he posts for the world to see are fair game, and well within the scope of commentary for a baseball blog.

Al did not hack the guy's email account to get the picture.  He did not sit in a tree and wait for him to do something embarrassing so he could take a photo.  Whether you agree with Al's take on the photo and the players involved or not, he was commenting on public information, which is legitimate.  

by Seamer on Mar 11, 2007 3:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My input on this
is why as public figures, these two knuckleheads would you be jacking around on MySpace.
 I am older yes, I just don't get Myspace. Quite Ironic it really isn't your space, it is everyone else's. Boys being boys I guess.
 Concentrate on your day job McCarthy.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Mar 9, 2007 10:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't see any racist photograph
on McCarthy's MySpace page.

Was it removed?

by JFCubFan on Mar 9, 2007 9:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Apparently, yes it has.
It was there earlier today, but now it's not.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2007 9:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Frankly...
the guy seems pretty far from being a racist. That's an awfully strong word to use about someone without knowing their intentions. Before you ask: yes, i did see the picture before it was pulled down. While i can see how it could be construed as racist, there are a lot of assumptions required before one comes to that conclusion. The picture in question had absolutely no context - one has to invent it to conclude it was a racist post.

To post a front page story at one of the more popular blogs in baseball with claims of racism is a little irresponsible, IMO. To update the story with a link to an even more sensationalist post, without updating with a link to the supposed perpetrator's explanation and without updating to note the guy took it down when he found out people may have been offended by it is even more irresponsible... and further more, its unfair.

The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 10:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Please elaborate
For those who did not see the picture, it featured a rather disheveled black man either sleeping in public or simply passed out.  Four large pieces of watermelon were near his head.

You are certainly correct that there are other explanations, but when one a white person posts a picture like that with no commentary, I'd love to hear your thoughts on what explanation is the most likely.

It may be a leap to call McCarthy a racist, but it certainly is not a large one.  And it is no leap at all to presume that the white person who put the picture on McCarthy's myspace page was horribly insensitive in that it played on nasty stereotypes for the purpose of attempting to be humerous.

All that said, calling McCarthy a racist while never once questioning the ease with which the lilly white media routinely implicitly called Dusty Baker stupid is, to me, much more disturbing than injecting a critical discussion into a baseball blog.

by Phred on Mar 9, 2007 10:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Elaboration...
"I'd love to hear your thoughts on what explanation is the most likely."

Honestly... it was probably a racial joke told in public between two people who aren't racist, but are aware of racial stereotypes and can find it humorous when examples of said stereotypes show themselves. Is that the right thing to do? No. Is it racist? Maybe, depending on how strict your definition is. Does it require the participation of racists? Absolutely not. Again, people who are not racists tell racial jokes all the time. That may not be a moral thing to do, but it doesn't mean they're racists, either.

But that's beside the point. The point is it doesn't matter what the most likely explanation is. Posting this story as an example of racism means Al assumed his theory of their intentions was the right one.

"It may be a leap to call McCarthy a racist, but it certainly is not a large one."

Seriously? Are you really going to make the argument that because someone posted an assumed racist picture in a comment, that makes the person's website that pic was posted at a racist? Really? That means the people in charge of google are racist, because i guarantee there's more racially insensitive stuff all over YouTube. It means that if i post a racist slur somewhere on this website, and Al doesn't catch it... he's a racist. If that isn't a leap, i don't know what is.

"And it is no leap at all to presume that the white person who put the picture on McCarthy's myspace page was horribly insensitive in that it played on nasty stereotypes for the purpose of attempting to be humerous."

That may not be a leap. But IMO it takes more than insensitivity to be racist or to proclaim racism is rearing its ugly head. And that's where the leap occurs w/r/t Wilson.

The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 10:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Big difference
Seriously? Are you really going to make the argument that because someone posted an assumed racist picture in a comment, that makes the person's website that pic was posted at a racist? Really? That means the people in charge of google are racist, because i guarantee there's more racially insensitive stuff all over YouTube. It means that if i post a racist slur somewhere on this website, and Al doesn't catch it... he's a racist. If that isn't a leap, i don't know what is.

Here's what I see as the likely scenario.  These two guys are friends and their relationship is such Wilson thought the picture was funny and thought his buddy McCarthy would find the picture to be funny.  Whether their seeing humor in a picture of an unconscious black guy surrounded by watermelons was driven by racism, an odd sense of humor or something in between is immaterial for this reponse to your post.

The point is that these guys have a relationship that doesn't even remotely exist between a youtube user and Google, Inc.  I don't know your relationship with Al as I don't know you and I don't know him, but since this is a shared blog rather than a personal myspace page, a comment you post here does is decidedly different from one friend posting on another friend's myspace page.

by Phred on Mar 9, 2007 11:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the point...
i have lots of friends that find racial jokes funny. If i had a personal website, and they were posting those jokes on there because they found them humorous, it doesn't mean i do. Furthermore, it doesn't mean they're done under the guise of racism, either - at least not in the commonly interpreted definition of the word.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 11:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well put, as usual, shawn.
It was my intention to not comment on this thread.  I nearly did a few hours ago and didn't feel like defending my statements the rest of the night.  Statement I'm sure would have been taken out of context and painting me as a racist or a supporter of racism.

I didn't find anything in that linked myspace page to be racist.  Perhaps offensive?  Maybe.  Even that I think takes a leap in judgment.  

I think we've somehow forgotten what racism means.  We use the word everyday anymore and it's belittled the plight many have suffered and it's, so to speak, watered down the definition of the word.  I don't know why this is true, but it is.

My opinion is that we are intent on making people believe we aren't racist so anything that could possibly be offensive to a minority is deemed racism.  Better to be safe than sorry, I imagine many people are thinking when they do this.

It's not racism.  That's all I know.

by Maddog on Mar 9, 2007 10:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It may have been racist...
in its intentions. It may not have. Either way, one has to assume a context for the conversation to draw a conclusion. Even racist remarks, when placed into proper context, may not come from the mouth of a racist. If you want an example, watch one episode of the Chappelle Show or wait for a friend to quote it (it shouldn't take much of a wait).

My problem here is posting a story about this under the heading "Racism Rears Its Ugly Head" is just as careless and irresponsible as posting that picture was. And the picture was taken down when called out.

The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 10:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Certainly true.
I think what I meant was that given no context, it was not racist.  Stupid?  Perhaps.  Again, we'd need to know the context.  I'd definitely agree that these guys shouldn't be posting things that could offend anyone, which basically means that they should just stay away from the internet altogether.  

by Maddog on Mar 9, 2007 10:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Having read the above exchange...
... I'll agree. I think I probably went a little over the top here, and also, CJ Wilson did apologize in a post on the Rangers site Lone Star Ball (and yes, that really is him), an apology I accepted, and then got flamed below it.

The point I was trying to make, and maybe I didn't do it very well, was that public figures (and in fact, anyone) ought to think twice before they put something like this out in public where anyone can see it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 4:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Correction...
you did not use the word racist. But you also didn't clear the guy's name as such in your story even after you had clearly known he wasn't a racist.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 11:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And might i add...
that i find it hypocritical to ask players and teams to interact with non-MSM such as blogs more and then to over-react this way without trying to get the player's side of the story first... particularly when the player is someone who is clearly willing to interact with bloggers. A little effort before the posting of this story would have gone a long way towards diffusing the situation - Wilson would likely have taken the post down after some brief communication, AND you wouldn't be getting flak for a sensationalist post. Instead, here we are...
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 10:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Got to say this,
For Shawn: Loud, sustained applause!!

You hit the nail on its head. A little jumping of the gun. However, this is drawing hits. And Al, I wouldn't be wearing a BCB shirt if you decide to head to Arlington in June. Doesn't look like you have many fans there.

"Because I saw this movie called 'Liar Liar' and the message was 'don't lie.' --Cal

by nextyearcub on Mar 10, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm confused.
So...Mark Prior is pitching tomorrow! Who's excited! I am. Although I heard on the radio that he's just going to 'let it go'. I hope that doesn't screw up his arm more, but I'm not sure it can be any worse.

Was Sosa at the Rangers game?

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Mar 9, 2007 10:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nervous...
Sparks, i'm more nervous than excited about Prior's start tomorrow. He needs that fastball to be quite a bit livelier and more accurate if he's going to contribute to the team this year. Here's hoping he improves tomorrow...
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 10:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think
i agree with what someone else posted that prior might need to build arm strength in the next 2-3 months before he is worth anything to us

either way i can live with
Z
Lilly
Hill
Marquis
Guzman

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 11:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm nervous too...
and will be probably end up disappointed again. But I'm sure PriorandAramisfan will be there for support. I'm going to need it.

I'm still excited though, but I'm always very happy to see Cubs players again. I also talk to the TV and to tell the players how much I missed them.  I'm not joking.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Mar 9, 2007 11:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice job...
...trying to change the subject, Sparkles.  Sadly, it didn't work :(
MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Mar 9, 2007 11:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really,
he said on the radio that he was just going to "let it go"? I just hope he can get himself locked in, keep his mechanics strong and go from there, I think we'd see a rise in velocity just from that alone. Overthrowing just to gain velocity will probably cause more harm than good.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Mar 10, 2007 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you on one thing...
to post that picture was either careless or naive, depending on whether he's actually a racist or just doesn't see how it could be construed that way. I agree with you that he should probably be a little more guarded with his actions in public forums. However, if it was naivety, he shouldn't be thrown to the wolves for it.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 10:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I just don't get it???
"to post that picture was either careless or naive, depending on whether he's actually a racist or just doesn't see how it could be construed that way"

What has this world come to?  Some of my best friends have been black and when I have invited them to parties, cook outs, or other events that they come to they have made jokes similar to this.  They have said if there's watermelon or chicken I'm there! It's not racist that a large percentage of that ethnicity likes certain types of food.  If I posted a picture of an oriental person eating rice and sitting on the floor am I being racist or insensitive?  Or what about cultures that eat dog or cat?  They really do eat that even here in the states, I went to school with a couple of kids from Laos and we would joke with them about it but we were friends, we weren't being racists.  Just having a laugh about something that one culture enjoys and another culture doesn't understand.

I feel like some of the posters here either live in a convent or spend most of their time in a confessional.  Either that or they are nothing more than hypocrites.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 10, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In Al's defense...
If you read the post above again carefully, you'll find Al never said Wilson was a racist (or McCarthy). He states that the photograph is racist.

In addition, if you go back and read the post yet again, you might find that Al stated his point rather clearly. He isn't necessarily trying to expose Wilson as a racist. He's saying we all need to step carefully here on the Interweb, because any one of us could be held accountable for stepping over the line. Wilson stepped over the line.

And what was the result of bloggers such as Al exposing Wilson's "bad choice" (that's a term I use with my four-year-old)? An apology. A lesson learned. And I'd like to think that, from now on, Wilson, McCarthy and any other professional baseball players who have happened across this story will think twice about indulging in racist humor in public forums. That's a good thing.

Oh, and by the way, Wilson is not 20 years old. He's 26. He was drafted six years ago. He should know better.

I didn't have the ball, bitch!

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 9, 2007 10:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

oh ok
so when you were 26 you had a complete handle of things-- and even if so are you the new standard for humanity?

the point is its none of Al's, yours or anyone else's buisness to dedicate a front page post on the biggets cub blog over something like this. "Held accoutable" by WHO? who the hell are any of us to decide if who is racist or not? Where do you get your authority from? god? more than likely your own sense of entitelment to decide what is or isnt right/wrong

who the fuck do we think we are to teach anybody else a "lesson" unless we oursevles are guiltless?

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 10:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just curious
Are you sober?

by Phred on Mar 9, 2007 10:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes
but the spelling mistakes are due to the fact im playing some cards on full tilt and cant edit.
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 10:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry, but
what does being sober have to do with anything?  The man has his point, and is entitled to his opinion, as are you.

The comment about being sober had no reason for being posted and was uncalled for.

MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Mar 9, 2007 11:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe
its because im in college they think im drunk

hmmm

maybe that means he is ageist

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 11:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ooooohhh
an ageist!  Should I be all up in arms about this??

Seriously, the man apologized for his actions and took the pic down.  And who are we to judge his character, without knowing him?  

Would anyone on this site, famous or not, want another group to judge you based on one snippet that was posted?  I know I've done and said some pretty stupid shit, especially taken out of context, and realize that if somebody randomly came across it, they would likely think me a horrible person.  

People get riled up way too easily over things that aren't our business.  

MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Mar 10, 2007 12:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even if he wasn't sober...
...what is the difference?

That comment right there only supports what is being questioned here.  I said this way down at the bottom and you just confirmed it.  This site is so full of high and mighty hypocritical judges.  What if he was drunk, are you going to call him an alcoholic because he got drunk on a Friday night and that is something that you don't approve of?  

I think that the point that some of us are trying to make here is that it isn't right for anyone to judge how someone else lives their life cause I am pretty sure if you truly look at yourself you will see that you probably have your own ways that don't meet the approval of others.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 10, 2007 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ease up
This is what happens when one prefers ranting than actually checking to see if there's something worth getting pissed off about.

I asked a question.  That's it.  No judgment at all.    Rather than play internet tough guy, maybe you should ask before assuming so much.

If you scroll up a bit, you'd see ksucubbie authored multiple profanity-laced posts directed at Al about something else.  When he followed those posts with this one, the apparent level of hostility (which I found a bit unnecessary) combined with the poor spelling and grammer combined with the fact that he's a college student and it was late on a Friday night all led me to ask a question that contained absolutely no value judgment at all.  

by Phred on Mar 10, 2007 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh come on.
I'm 25 years old myself. I'm not going to claim to be perfect, but I'm certainly not a child; I'm an adult. If I screw up -- and it does happen -- I'd like to be treated like an adult about it.

It's like the ESPN commentator that refers to the LSU girl's basketball players as "kids." Puhlease. These guys are in their 20s, not their teens. They (we, I guess) are all adults. You do nobody any favors by not holding them responsible for their actions.

Like it or not, they're baseball players, and in this day and age, that means they're entertainers. They live in the same sort of public sphere that means that we get to hear about Britney Spears's constant trips to rehab. And they know this. If they don't get it, then they need to figure it out, but it's certainly not the fault of the viewing public for not giving them their privacy.

by cwyers on Mar 9, 2007 11:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

re: oh ok
Unfortunately, I am sober -- and exhausted -- so I'll leave it at this:

One hardly needs to be "guiltless" to teach others a lesson. Wilson himself has admitted to not making a "wise choice." He knows what he did was wrong. Sometimes we need others -- even strangers on blogs -- to set us right.

And as far as who's holding who accountable? That would be the court of public opinion. Wilson's had his day. He's copped a plea. Case closed.

I didn't have the ball, bitch!

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 9, 2007 11:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it goes beyond age as well, KSU.
As shawn stated above, this was most likely simply playing on a stereotype.  Some consider that kind of thing to be racism, but I personally think that's because of all this political correctness nonsense all around us.  

It's funny as hell when white people are shown in certain stereotypes (White Men Can't Jump--there was a god damn movie titled that!), but god forbid you do something like that with a minority.  How often have you heard people talk about "some rich white guy" while people laughed?  Can you imagine the horror in people's eyes if you tried to talk about "some poor black guy"?

Why are we so sensitive?  I understand that as a human being part of my role is to be sensitive to others, but to what point?  I welcome humorous stereotyping of whites.  It's funny.  I'm not offended and most importantly, the people who are talking about how the minorities may be offended in this thread don't give a rat's ass that people are making fun of whites.  

We all draw the line somewhere.  No matter who it is, they draw a line somewhere.  That line, no matter where it is, is going to get crossed even by the most decent people around.  

I make fun of everyone regardless of color, sex, or sexual orientation.  I figure that way I will offend as many whites as I do blacks, gay people as I do straight people, and women as I do men.  If people want to call me a racist because of it, fuck 'em.  

by Maddog on Mar 9, 2007 11:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hell
im not saying the most important point is his age. I do think maturity will temper what you might or might not post on myspace but age isnt the reason im upset im upset at people for judging wilson ect.
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 11:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Watch one episode of the Chapelle Show...
and you'll see a clear example - check that, constant examples - of racial jokes being told without "racism" being a motivating factor.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 11:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And
nobody is offended or claims he's a racist.  Most people take it for what it is...humor.  If a person doesn't find it funny...get over it.  Just because a person doesn't like it doesn't mean it's racist.  

by Maddog on Mar 9, 2007 11:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're right...
in that what Al says in his story is mostly within reason. If read by itself, it isn't as inditing. However, the discussion is framed by the title of the story: "Racism rears its ugly head." That sets an accusatory tone and the rest of the story reads as if they're willfully acting with racist intent.

If Al had title the story something different, the tone of what he was saying would have also been different.

The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 11:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What?!?!?
Could someone please explain how "racist" this pitcure is? I don't get it.... all of you blow things out of porportion around about everything.

Secondly, how many people around here have Myspace pages? Because if you did, you'd know that most of the athletes and other famous people's pages are all runned by fans of those people. They are not the pages of the real person, most of the time. I, for example, am friends with the whole Cubs roster, and I know that everyone of them are run by fans of those players.

Besides, if you were one of these famous people with a myspace that is run by yourself, would you leave it 'public' for everyone to see? I doubt it.

by ChiSportsBob on Mar 9, 2007 11:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Again, tt could be racist...
The picture was of a disheveled black man laying down on the street in front of a dumpster with watermelons and a McDonald's cup laying next to him. As such, it portrays several negative stereotypes about black people.

It also does seem that CJ posts things himself, as he participates in discussions on baseball blogs. And i seriously doubt a friend of his running his blog would be posting his comments on another player's blog (but i could be wrong about that).

And as far as leaving it public is concerned, i think this discussion would be better focused on that aspect. It may be better if people make their MySpace pages private so they don't have to deal with issues such as these.

The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 11:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, it* could be racist...
n/t
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 9, 2007 11:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what methinks...
...a few points...and I am going to try to share my opinion as clear as possible and possibly facilitate a responsible and respectful discussion.  

(1) I know only small amounts of these two pitchers and all of it is about their major league careers.  I don't know this guy.  And we don't know him.  Already I know not to judge him based upon some internet posting.  

(2) I consider it pretty damn cool that Wilson puts himself out there for the fans.  Just think what it would be like if we had Rich Hill on BCB once a month!!  I am 24 years old and know what it is like to be so wired to my technology.  It sounds like Wilson (a) is similarly "wired" into technology and (b) decided to MySpace/blog as a service to his fans.  This immediately serves two purposes: a direct outlet to fan questions, comments, etc; and a direct and immediate link for the media to FURTHER judge and evaluate his performance.  This is something of a double-edged sword, and Wilson actually states over on LSB.  I cannot begin to comprehend the exhaustive microscope professional athletes are constantly under and it is quite obvious that if an athlete decides to open oneself up to even further scrutiny via blogging, a man must (a) be prepared for such further scrutiny and (b) critique any blogging material as if it is a doctoral dissertation prior to posting it.  

(3) I feel the only reason Al's post is in question is BECAUSE Wilson can easily access it.  Think Katie Holmes reads blogs about her scientology-crazed husband and is offended?  Or Keith Urban knows my girlfriend wants to bang him?  Probably not.  No one cares what you say about 99.9% of celebrities on the internet.  However, the reason this post is quite different, is the fact that Wilson HAS made that personal connection himself, from us to him, and probably has or will navigate over to BCB at some point.  Like it or not, athletes can and will receive excessive praise or punishment for daily activities you and I perform without notice.  This is part of the job, fortunately or unfortunately.  

(4) I am not sure who it was, but someone above poised the question of how can we be judgmental of such a small action (I'm still not sure exactly what the hell the "racist" picture contained) when we have greater problems in our world.  I have used slurs, made jokes about groups of people, you get the idea.  Who hasn't been a jackass at some point in their lives?  This is not an excuse, per se, but as a professional educator working directly with children, is often part of the natural progression into adulthood.  Mistakes, goofups, saying things we regret.  These guys are 20-something and expected to be perfect human beings, and albeit we should not expect this of them, we do.  Taking a step back and checkiing out the larger picture really makes me think, is this such a big deal?

(5) I am not sure if Al approached or appropriately titled this thread prior to (a) speaking with whoever works over at LSB or (b) if he knew that Wilson posted on LSB, asking him to respond about it.  Wilson did post a comment suggesting, (paraphrasing here) that when there's an issue in a relationship, come straight to the source, don't beat around the bush.  Now, if contacting either of these persons was not an option for Al, then so be it.  This is his place, his vehicle, he can do whatever the fuck he wants.  If you don't like the content, leave.  YES, this is baseball related.  I am not sure if (as I read it), calling one or both of these men's actions immediately "racist" prior to learning a bit more about the situation is warranted, but that is for you to decide.  MySpace is the #1 whoring website on the internet and has held that position for years.  Social network sites, for the most part, are taking our children and young professionals over, in multiple negative ways.  The most significant, however, is the ability to truly create a facade of who you are or are not based upon your mood or emotions at that time.  This has created an infinite number of responsibilities that most students fail to comprehend and own up to until it is quite too late, as Al commented on.  Thank you for that; in the schools I work in, social networking sites continue to be a daily battle.  That is a post for a different day, however.  

Overall, I think this is a relatively minor matter; I am not one to judge or take sides, but it appears from Wilson's comments on LSB that he truly regrets whatever action stirred the pot.  Hopefully this does not deter him from blogging, I indeed believe that LSB has to completely and totally enjoy such a unique and intimate experience with a ballplayer.  

****

I have been a member on this board for over a year and have recently become really sick and tired of all the bullshit posting that goes back and forth about administration, controlling users and threads/diaries, and people bitching about stupid crap.  I came here for baseball.  I come here for baseball.  Get along or move on.  I support this website and hope to eventually meet a few of you and Al at a Wrigley game.  I really just want the season to start so none of us are bored enough to pick on each other.  

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Mar 9, 2007 11:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for this.
The most important thing you said was this:
The most significant, however, is the ability to truly create a facade of who you are or are not based upon your mood or emotions at that time.  This has created an infinite number of responsibilities that most students fail to comprehend and own up to until it is quite too late, as Al commented on.  Thank you for that; in the schools I work in, social networking sites continue to be a daily battle.

That was the point I was trying to make, and as I have said, I guess I didn't do it very well. I misjudged C. J. Wilson based on this Myspace post, and I shouldn't have -- but you can easily see how that could happen to anyone.

Finally, I also didn't title the post very well, either. Looking back, I think I probably should have gone along the lines of what Deadspin did in their post on this topic.

Thanks to everyone here for this discussion.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 4:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but then
why is the "if you scroll down the comments left on McCarthy's page, you'll find a racist photograph" still part of your original post even though you changed the title?  your post still says the picture is racist, but you seem to be saying that wilson is not.  do you understand why people find your position contradictory?  if you think he was not putting it up for racial reasons, which you say how, then it is no longer "racist."  

is this site owned by sb nation or al yellon?  are you like a "manager"?  just curious because i lurk at az snakepit and have never seen a fight between sb nation blogs until now, and wondered if this caused a problem for the higherups.

by TerryS on Mar 10, 2007 9:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

why are you still talking about this?
this is weeks old in blog time.
Win Schmins

by HerrProf on Mar 10, 2007 9:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this makes no sense
al posted it yesterday.  and al made another reference in his front page post today AND he discussed it today in comments.

you don't have to agree with me, but you have to make sense.  

by TerryS on Mar 10, 2007 9:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't bother
After being in the middle of the last bruhaha, I can tell you that this sound advice will fall on deaf ears.

And the thing that is being overlooked is not only did Al scare away a real live baseball connection, it was a damn attractive one at that.

http://www.inaleagueofherown.com

by gravedigger on Mar 10, 2007 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

just trying
to save what's left of what was great.  maybe i'm too late.

by TerryS on Mar 10, 2007 10:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

says who
I demand the right to be glib.
Win Schmins

by HerrProf on Mar 10, 2007 10:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Al did title this post wrong!
It should have been titles, "Really Bad Taste in Music Rears it's Ugly Head"

(Since the photo has been taken down, that was the most offensive thing I could find about his Myspace page)

by DTJchris on Mar 9, 2007 11:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If you compare and contrast BCB to LSB...
...you realize that over here there is actual discussion and dissection of the matter; over there its just "STFU AL" and "YOU HAVE A BIG EGO AND WANT ATTENTION" crap.  Just an observation.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Mar 9, 2007 11:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

if
it were the other way around would our discussion be any different
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 9, 2007 11:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly?
Obviously we would have more emotional ties to our player; I do think our feelings on the matter in that respect would be the same.  However, dissection of the impact of the photograph itself is null and void at LSB, on the contrary it appears to be the focal point here.  Still is a relevant observation.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Mar 9, 2007 11:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh for sure
say a moderate ball player for our club ala TheRiot took the time to post on BCB then say a Phillies blog guy showed up and accused him of being racist-- we would be up in arms at the outsider same as at LSB.
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 10, 2007 12:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I did not suggest...
...this one way or in the other.  I simply made an observation.  I, for one, made observations of both sites and attempted at an unbiased perspective.  I cannot speak for the rest of BCBs users, but I do believe it is of worthy note.  I have observed BCB to be of high-quality discussion when it comes to important discussions such as this one.  Nothing more, nothing less.  We can agree to disagree, yes?

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Mar 10, 2007 12:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, much of the discussion over there
is unfairly attacking Al for being an attention-monger. I am defending him there because, ironically, the attacks on Al require assumptions of their own about Al's character.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 10, 2007 12:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
n/t
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 10, 2007 12:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

An explanation of the photograph...
from C.J. Wilson himself:
the picture IS an inside joke about ME, and my bizzare ability to eat massive amounts of food.  originally my brother mailed it to me because as a kid I was in a watermelon eating contest and I won, at the Los Caballeros summer camp in Garden Grove, Ca.

You can choose to believe him or not. But he seems to at least have a reasonable explanation.

The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 10, 2007 12:14 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It does appear...
... and I have been told by Adam, the proprietor of Lone Star Ball, that C. J. Wilson is in fact a decent guy, and that the posting of the photo was an ill-considered attempt at a joke.

I'll take this as truth, and as I noted elsewhere in this thread, I accepted Wilson's apology as posted at LSB. Note also above, and I'm sorry that I can't find it right now as this thread has gotten quite long, that I did not at any time call Wilson a racist -- only that he posted a photo that appeared to be racist. Yes, there IS a difference.

I did invite him to come here and post, though he has not yet accepted. I'm also trying to see if I can get introduced to him at the Rangers/Cubs game that I'll be attending in Mesa on March 21.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 4:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well....regardless...
McCarthy knows some seriously hot women!
Mark William Prior is BACK! This was one Cactus League start and at least he's pitching!

by TheBeerBaron on Mar 10, 2007 12:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

How can people..
Say those pictures are NOT racist? And by people, I mean at the other blog. It definately IS racist. But wether you find it funny or not is your own business.

If something like this would have happend to a player on another team, they would not be defending him. Him being a public figure, he should have known better. ALOT better. Very poor judgement on his behalf.

Al, you are right. Stick to your guns. Don't listen to the idiots.

by Patblue on Mar 10, 2007 12:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Exaclty
that kind of comment implies that everyone from Texas is a racist right?

just like all black people in this country are watermelon loving drug addicts who pass out at random places in the hot sun.

And mexicans are lazy ner' do wells who live off our taxes

and dont get me started on asiasn and their slanty eyes

because i mean some sterotypes are ok but other arent

f*(#$g jews with their money

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 10, 2007 1:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was born in Texas
So sorry, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Also, being a Texan is not a race, it's a state in the United States, which we are all a part of.  

by DTJchris on Mar 10, 2007 1:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

awesome man
i was born in lubbock so does that mean you dont have a greater leg to stand on?

or mabye you think being born something makes you impervious to discussion

like those black people who would laugh at that picture because i mean we all know every single black person would be really offended right? because black people only think in terms of sticking up for their own. because they are like that.

oh and thanks for informing me that Texas isnt a race i hadnt quite figured that out out yet
 

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 10, 2007 1:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i dont
even know what to say to that nugget of wisdom....
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Mar 10, 2007 1:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was born in Lubbock too.
n/t
"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Mar 10, 2007 9:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a second...
did you just admit you're a racist?
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 10, 2007 1:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Forget admit...
you practically accused yourself of being a racist! Now that's funny!
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 10, 2007 1:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a second...
Also, being a Texan is not a race, it's a state in the United States, which we are all a part of

He never said being Texan was a certain race.  But your original comment, IMO, did imply that all Texans are racist.  Or, at least, that you can't expect much from someone from Texas.

No, I'm not Texan, and I've never been there, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stereotype everyone who is from the Lone Star State (even if you are from there).

ksu's point was meant to illustrate that point.

Your original comment was just as bad as some of the assumptions made about McCarthy and Wilson, which is what started this mess in the first place.  

MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Mar 10, 2007 1:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

*Political Statement Warning* (Sorry Al)
Yeah, I made that comment

I also never made a single comment in regards to what McCarthy and CJ did, right or wrong or racist or not racist, I didn't say anything about them besides a comment about one's taste in music.

Yes, I know I am not perfect, I, like almost every person on this planet, do have prejudices in one form or another.  I see Texas as being a red state and their political views do not mesh with mine.  My prejudice with Texas is Ideological, it is a proven fact that more then 50 percent of Texas is Republican (judging by how they vote in presidential elections), and therefore, I do not agree with their policies, which, I feel, unfairly targets certain minorities and groups.

I am sorry Al, I know you want us to avoid political, religious, etc.

by DTJchris on Mar 10, 2007 1:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying
that you made any specific comments about McCarthy or Wilson.  I'm sorry if you took my comment that way.  I was referring to others who have posted comments of that nature.

I won't discuss your political affiliation because of Al's no-politics guideline.  I'm only voicing my opinion as to how I read your statement about Texas and people from there.

I'm not perfect either.  I'm far from it, actually.  I just try to realize those prejudices and to abstain from making a comment that is potentially very inflammatory.

I'm not taking issue with you here.  I hope you understand that.  I'm taking issue with the way I interpreted your statement.  Thanks for not letting this turn into a personal-insult contest :)

MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Mar 10, 2007 2:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you as well...
I personally love debate, but I also hate it when it turns into personal attacks (which many people over at LSB are doing towards Al, which I do take offense too which led me to make my, I admit, childish comment about Texas).  

I think rational debate is a very positive thing but it can turn ugly when it just becomes who can heckle the other person better.  I appreciate that you didn't discuss my political affiliation and I know that BCB is not the Medium for that.  I did not want to come off as standing on my soap box when I made my above post but just felt that since others, not you (rational, level headed statements on your part), were taking shots at what I said, I backed it up with why I said it without personally attacking anybody and with no intention of offending anybody either.  

One reason I put that Texas comment is because of the Irony, this whole thing started because of pictures that have been viewed as showing a group of people in a negative light.  

This is Al's site and if Al thought it was important to bring the myspace thing to light, that is his right.  Do I agree or disagree with him doing it?  It's not my place to say.  And if it was that I didn't agree with him, I wouldn't start attacking him personally or professionally because of it.  

by DTJchris on Mar 10, 2007 2:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

May I suggest
that you print your comments, put them under your pillow when you go to sleep, reread them in the morning, and then vow to avoid generalizing about people.

FYI, Texas is a state. Texans are people. You might be surprised to find out that the state is populated by an incredible diversity of Americans, most of whom are willing to judge others by their actions, not their zip code.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Mar 10, 2007 2:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well.. ok then?
Feel better now?

Honestly. If you wanna discuss this, can you atleast post something that people can intelligently debate? It's comments like that, that get people to start using personal attacks.

by Patblue on Mar 10, 2007 1:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he was pointing out...
the hypocrisy of the above post, which made a prejudiced remark that all people from a certain area are prejudiced.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 10, 2007 1:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand..
But with poor taste. There are ways of making points without embarassing yourself.

by Patblue on Mar 10, 2007 1:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Its times like these
that fans forget that these players are people and have lives outside of baseball.  The Myspace site was probably setup as a way to keep in touch with friends he has from his childhood or from college.  I have similar sites about myself and I wouldn't expect someone to completely judge me based stictly on the content found on these types of online profiles.

Its the people that micromanage these types of things that makes such big deals out of nothing.  People fail to take into account the fact that maybe there is something behind the picture other than the idea McCarthy and Wilson are cold blooded racists.

One of the great thing that is coming out of the new wave of sports blogs is the fact that athletes are not treated like gods.  They are all humans who have lives outside of their perspective arenas.  As much as ESPN would like to put these people on a pedastal above everyone else its just not realistic.  Let these people live their lives and have their jokes.  Its not hurting anyone.  They're not pulling a Ron Artest and beating their wives/girlfriends.  I am estatic that the baseball season is finally back up and running so we can concentrate the conversations here on Cubs baseball rather than all the inane jibberjabber that went on over the offseason.  Hopefully we can keep it that way all the way through October.

I survived VWR 2007

by akcubfan on Mar 10, 2007 12:50 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bullshit...
this over sensitive over political correct wave is bullshit. We must have the faculty to analyze and understand what occurs around us and react to it according to a sensitivity that does not carry us to reason purely according to predefined thoughts!

In this alleged defense of ones taboos this phenomenon does nothing but create other taboos.

Was this a stupid mistake from Wilson? Not necessarily, but it certainly is now that we all made it one. Point is by over"protecting" everything we stir up shit where theres none.

And just like that we made the kid a racist. Bravo.

GREAT SUCCESS!!!

by Chitown Mojo on Mar 10, 2007 1:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I haven't read any comments..
..above so maybe I am duplicating someone else here.

First off before this goes into any type of misunderstanding, I am not racist in any way.  I have had cross-cultured and cross-raced relationships in the past.  I am white and one of my best friends is black.

I clicked on the link and didn't see any pictures from C.J. Wilson posted on his site.  If there were then that is in poor taste but if someone is going to take the time and effort to look up such nonsense, then I think that person needs to re-evaluate what is truly important in their life.

On the issue of myspace.  I happen to have opened a page when I was deployed to Iraq.  I thought it was the younger generation's "in" thing to do.  Upon opening my page, I was connected with some great friends from the past who live all over the United States.  

As far as having a page start playing music and not being able to stop it.....well, if you know how to use a CD player or a cassette player then you can stop that music as it starts.

Seriously....this is one of the things that drives people away from this site.  I have always felt like so many people on here have this prudish, snobish attitude like the little old lady sitting on the park bench commenting about what someone else is doing.  It is so hypocritcal.  Nobody is perfect and not everyone has the same interests.  To ridicule a group of people is absolutely ridiculous.  In fact it is as ridiculous as making racist comments or gestures (think about that one for awhile).

Everyone needs to get their I am almightier than thou attitude and stick it where it belongs.  

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 10, 2007 2:28 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

OK
and I also started that last post before I finished the entire diary.

Seriously Al, do you think that McCarthy and Wilson were thinking about their myspace pages and comments while they were on the mound pitching?  Are you saying that the only people that could ever be great players are those that toe the line of the bible and or society?

I think that they were hit well because they lack the ability to shut hitters down, not because of some bullshit that they put on their myspace page.  This is absolutley ridiculous.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Mar 10, 2007 2:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not at all.
The two things are completely separate. Yes, I wrote about them in the same post, however, I did not intend for them to be linked.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 4:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone have the Picture
 in question?

by lemon17pie on Mar 10, 2007 5:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Good job, Al.
You've gotten flak more than once on this crazy medium, but i think you are as good as anyone at admitting when you've made a mistake, and when its an important mistake trying to remedy it. You've done that again here, and for that you should be commended.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by shawndgoldman on Mar 10, 2007 10:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thank you.
In retrospect, there were other ways to make the point I was trying to make, and I should have done it that way, rather than write it in a way that was taken as inflammatory.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Takes a real man...
to admit being wrong and apologizing the way you did. I too commend you and would like to tell you that just like the whole CJ thing was blown out of proportion so was the blame and heat you took for it..don't  sweat it.

Let's get back to 83MPH fastballs now.

GREAT SUCCESS!!!

by Chitown Mojo on Mar 10, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.
And if our pitchers are only throwing 83 MPH fastballs, we are in real trouble.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be just Prior Al
Miller is dealing 86MPH thank you very much.
GREAT SUCCESS!!!

by Chitown Mojo on Mar 10, 2007 1:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, well, 86.
That'll give him major league success.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 1:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ranger fan and longtime LSB reader
Well, I am glad you decided to retract at least part of your statement, but with all due respect, it's a bit too late now.

CJ already announced to the local media that he'll no longer be signing up for forums and chatting directly with fans, and Brandon McCarthy has now made his myspace profile private. In one fall swoop, you manage to cut up the player-fan connection that we had for a long time at LSB with your vindictive histrionics. Well done.

It is amazing, to me, that a man who ranted against political correctness before (http://www.yellon.org/archives/2003_02_09_archive.htm - thanks to fellow LSB poster Cmkelly for this) would suddenly become so offended by an innocent, if ill-advised picture on a player's private webspace. This reaks - of hypocrisy, of lack of foresight, and of political correctness.  And I am just here to say that you are guilty of all three.

As for everyone else, CJ's explanation of the photo is as follows.

"  the picture IS an inside joke about ME, and my bizzare ability to eat massive amounts of food.  originally my brother mailed it to me because as a kid I was in a watermelon eating contest and I won, at the Los Caballeros summer camp in Garden Grove, Ca.  "

Congratulations Al, your wild histrionics have made a innocent picture a news story here in the DFW. It has driven away two players that have been fairly open to the public, and it was much ado about nothing.

by FirebatM3 on Mar 10, 2007 11:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Man
That sucks Firebat; I know you guys had a good history with a few players posting. And that link, well, certainly interesting. Like I said above, this was a case of jumping the gun, and the ramifications have been quite unfortunate.
"Because I saw this movie called 'Liar Liar' and the message was 'don't lie.' --Cal

by nextyearcub on Mar 10, 2007 12:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it does suck...
... and for that, I apologize. Honestly, I think Wilson's overreacting a bit, don't you? Yes, I didn't put this in the right light, and for that I apologized and said I was wrong.

I'd like to say here and now that I am truly sorry if my actions have caused someone (Wilson) who appears to be a good person to shy away from a more public persona. That was NOT my intention.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 12:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't necessarily think he's a racist
A picture like that isn't conclusive either way. My apartment-mate and good friend is black, and we both agreed that this whole situation was sensationalistic, and blown out of proportion.

All that said, I understand why CJ came out to make that statement--to satiate those that are up in arms over this issue--But any idiot can tell that his explanation is horseshit, and THAT is what offends me. It offends my intelligence when celebrities make gaffes, and then try to explain them away with bullshit. Just as Mel Gibson really DOES hate jews, CJ (while probably not a racist) posted that picture for the exact reason that it appears: he thought it was funny. Honestly, his excuse is the weakest load of bullshit I've read in a long, long time. Try again, CJ.

And as for LSB losing its cred with the Ranger players: well, I just really don't give a flying fuck. Yes, Al's post here was pretty silly, but you guys losing your link with the players doesn't bother or affect me in any way, and I really find it rather funny that you would come over here to assume that we (or at least I, speaking for myself) care to hear your complaints.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Mar 10, 2007 1:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And so
Started the sportblog war
GREAT SUCCESS!!!

by Chitown Mojo on Mar 10, 2007 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I won't be taking part
I'm tired of all the drama that goes on around here. This seriously clashes with my generally laid back attitude, and I won't be taking part in any of it.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Mar 10, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty much...
laid back but probably not like you.

I'm a player person, and if the same thing happened to us, I would be upset too.  However, if that's going to prevent one of the players I like from having any problems then he should definitely stop interacting. I don't think this is the case.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Mar 10, 2007 2:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gee
imagine this. If someone like Ryan Thierot posted at BCB and was a key part of the community, and LSB or AN posted some picture taken out of context and accused him of being a racist and forced him out of the community. How would you feel? If you say you wouldn't be down right pissed you're lying to yourself.

As far the explanation goes, CJ is a very eclectic guy. This is the guy who put up a Youtube of him and 3 other bullpen pitchers reenacting the TV show Cops (of course, the clip has now been taking down since one of the participants happened to look like White trash and the other happens to be black and that might offend your delicate sensibilities). He tends to be very open, as is his entire family. I can see his explanation of events as credible, maybe you can't, it really doesn't matter.

The point is, I don't really care if you believe his explanation or not, but to say it doesn't matter that your actions have caused us to lose part of our community is stupid and callous. Our community is very loose, and it tends to feature a couple of high-status guests (Keith Law and Will Carrol both post occasionally, as does Marc Normadin), family members (Nick Masset's mother posted a fantastic diary about the family's personal reactions to Masset's trade), and players. When you drive those people away you ruin our sense of community, and if you can't emphasize, you must be some kind of idiot. So, I could take the high road and just let it go, but right now, I don't care what happens to this account.

So, Thelonious Drunk, I would really enjoy it if you were to die in a fire.

by FirebatM3 on Mar 11, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you see
you're assuming the "golden rule" applies here, but it doesn't. Ergo, I don't give a shit how you feel.  

I don't trust a group that likes their state as much as texans do, anyway. I've been there. it's not that great. Get over yourselves.

Funny, I've long hoped that I could die in a fire, too. I'll see what I can do.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Mar 11, 2007 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also
Let me point out that I didn't do anything to scare your precious contributors away, as I don't think CJ is a racist, and would have never posted that article. That was Al; BCB doesn't operate as a collective conscious.

I just don't really care about your relentless whining.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Mar 11, 2007 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to take some of the blame off al
it was posted on deadspin too, which I assume is a MUCH bigger blog. Im sure their fans where much more obnoxious than anyone at bcb.
Win Schmins

by HerrProf on Mar 10, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It was hinted...
... on LSB that I had passed this info to Deadspin. I didn't. They found it on their own.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2007 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if you check the dednspin post date
it was BEFORE the thread on bcb. Im sure I got it through the blogvine.
Win Schmins

by HerrProf on Mar 10, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

im sorry
for bringing up the damn site to begin with.

My ori. impression:  jocks are kunckleheads.

still stands.

Win Schmins

by HerrProf on Mar 10, 2007 1:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

another al soap opera
i don't know if the picure was racist.  i guess it depends whether you believe wilson or not.  But come on al, you say in your update that you didn't mean to imply wilson was racist, yet your post read and still reads that "if you scroll down the comments left on McCarthy's page, you'll find a racist photograph".   what did you think it would imply?  you might be right about wilson.  either take a stand or don't.  stop trying to keep everyone on your good side.

i can't help but think that is that this is the same crap from a month ago.  al says a bunch of stuff, gets a bad reaction, and then acts surprised.  i guess this is what i deserve for giving bcb another try.  i looked forward to reading about the cubs with other cubs fans, but this isnt the place for that anymore.

one last thing to all the guys coming out of the woodwork is that yesterdays link about jen lopez was not talk about baseball.  i didn't care but i found it funny that all the guys complaining about nonbaseball talk before are now happy with movie reviews and talk about a baseball player's wife.  

whatever.  i'm sad to see that this site is not what it used to be.  it really used to be something, but it looks like those days are over.  its just too bad.

by TerryS on Mar 10, 2007 3:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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