Lineup - serve Soriano some Pie?

by paulucla on Apr 10, 2007 10:01 AM CDT Comment 18 comments

I have been scratching my head over this Soriano leadoff thing since we signed him. I just don't get it, it seems like a horrible waste of potential run production, and leaves us with a weird dynamic for the 2-spot.

I see yesterday Pie went 3-4 with a walk, steal, and 3 runs scored. Doesn't that sound like the kind of bat you want leading off? I did not get to see him in spring training, what did you guys think?

Wouldn't a lineup with Pie leading off (and adding that much improved defense in the outfield), followed by Soriano (I would love him in the 2-spot ala Ryno), DLee, and ARam make much more sense? Or put a contact guy in the 2-spot and follow with Soriano, DLee, and ARam in the 3, 4, 5.

I hate any mention that Soriano prefers leadoff. I don't give a crap, it's not about him, it's about the team and winning games. I don't care if he's richer then Bill Gates, you play where Lou says you play and you shut up and do your best.

It's too early to draw anything other then tentative conclusions, but I just hate seeing Jones or Murton or DeRosa in the 2-spot between Soriano and DLee and ARam, not to mention that for the rest of the game we get to see Soriano hitting behind a friggin' pitcher.

I don't know if Pie is ready, is that the problem? They just don't think he's ready for that kind of pressure? It seems these days there is a reluctance to develop a true leadoff hitter with a true leadoff mentality. Is it the player egos? They don't want to do things like draw walks, lean over the plate and take one, lay down the nice bunt, etc?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Ready or not...

... Pie isn't a leadoff hitter. When he is brought up, I'd think he'll bat seventh.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 10, 2007 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Is your opinion due to his age or due to the type of player he is Al?

Just curious.

by Kornchex on Apr 10, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Al, but

it is due to the type of player he is. He strikes out very often and doesn't have good plate discipline. He is pretty much Soriano with less power.

by VS on Apr 10, 2007 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus

he is a rookie. He will struggle initially. How many debuting rookies get put in the key lineup positions on a team that hopes to contend? If Pie comes up, 7th would be the best place for him. Look at players like Sizemore and Mauer who came up on good teams, they started near the bottom of the lineup. Players like Hanley Ramirez last year for Florida are rare.

by rlpete on Apr 10, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like CPat..:)

n/t

Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Apr 10, 2007 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pie is playing in the minor leagues..

....not the major leagues. The season has just started. You need a larger sample set of ab's and situations before making a reflexive judgement.

Pinella, who is well-seasoned, and proven as a great mind in baseball, believes that Soriano should bat lead-off. That will not change. Save your breath.

Give Z whatever he Please...NOW!

by southerncubbie on Apr 10, 2007 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I prefer 6th or 7th for young hitters

It gives them a chance to acclimate to the Bigs without carrying too heavy of a burden. A team depends too much on 1-5 spots to put a rookie in on day 1. The 8th spot forces the hitter to be very disciplined and selective because the pitcher can try to tempt the hitter to expand the zone with the pitcher up next. Six and seven would enable the Cubs to get Pie's feet wet perfectly. You can play to his strengths by utililzing his speed and extra base abilities, while minimizing his weaknesses somewhat (strikeouts). Obviously, there are some scenarios where this is not the case and you slide someone into the top 5 spots in the lineup from the start. However, if you have the luxury of starting in the 6 or 7 hole then that would seem optimal. Given the Cubs recent history with their young prospects, I would be shocked if they put him in a spot in the lineup carrying too much responsibility. Let him play himself into those spots at the top of the lineup.

"Baseball is like Church. Many Attend; Few Understand." - Leo Durocher

by JD McCubbie on Apr 10, 2007 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The lineup

In a perfect world, Alfonso Soriano moves over to left field where he belongs and Felix Pie is your center fielder. Assuming of course Pie is up the task as some point. Pie is not top of the order material. He appears ideally suited to be a # 7 type hitter in a good lineup.

To be frank, I've been distressed with the performance of Soriano. The Cubs have forever suffered from a feast or famine type offense, and Soriano seems to exasperate the situation. He is a major streak hitter. When he isn't in one of his hot streaks and/or power grooves, then it is incumbent upon him to work the count, hit the opposite way and otherwise try to get on base in whatever fashion. The Soriano I have seen so far is up there hacking ala Sammy Sosa. You can't have that in a lead-off hitter. Not even one who will eventually put up wondrous offensive stats.

by BlueMike on Apr 10, 2007 10:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Soriano

I clearly agree about is spot in the line-up.

As far as moving him back to left field, I don't agree at all. While he was shaky in CF during the spring, IMO, once the calander turned to April, he turned it on. He seems comfortable in CF. He moves well to his left and right. From time to time he takes a first step in the wrong direction, but for the most part, he's been great out there. He's gotten to every ball that he should get to.

Moving him to LF signals the end of Murton. IMO, the best long term outfield for this team is Murton, Soriano and Pie, so let Murton stay in LF, Soriano in CF and put Pie in RF.

DmL

by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2007 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly..

..why I hope that Jones heats up and becomes trade bait aroung June. If we could move him and maybe Ohman and another pitcher (Miller ideally) for a pitcher then I would make the trade and put Pie in RF. That probably won't happen, but I can still have my dreams.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Apr 10, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Outfield

I don't share your enthusiasm for Matt Murton. He's not the type of ballplayer that you accomodate on the field, unlike Alfonso Soriano and Felix Pie. If Pie is the real deal, then his optimal position is center field. And left field is the optimal position for Soriano. Leaving right field to be manned by Jacque Jones (who is a good ballplayer and desperately needed left-handed bat signed to a good contract) or future considerations (e.g., Tyler Colvin? new acquisition?).

It's revealing that Sweet Lou has more or less entered into a platoon in left field with Cliff Floyd and Murton. It's not that Murton doesn't have positives. But other than an apparent ability to hit for nice average, he doesn't carry any other big positives. Other than being cheap, which is minor consideration for a big revenue team anyway. Murton isn't very good in left and doesn't project as a plus run producer. Hence, of the four outfielders in question...Soriano, Pie, Jones, Murton...he is the most expendable.

If I had to guess, Matt Murton will don several major league uniforms during his career.

by BlueMike on Apr 10, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You may be right..

..in the fact that Murton has not shown much power and probably isn't an RBI guy. With the current lineup though, I think that Murton is a valuable piece of the whole puzzle though. If Murton can continue to be a high OBP guy against both lefties and righties, then he is very valuable offensively if he is batting in the two-spot. With Derek Lee in the 3-spot and ARam in the cleanup spot, we need someone in the 2-spot who can get on base frequently. Also, I think that a run-producer would be classified as someone who can produce runs. If Murton reaches base and Lee or Ramirez (or Jones), then I think you could say that Murton is producing runs (as his run totals would show). We can't expect 80% of our lineup to be power hitters.

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Apr 10, 2007 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant..

..if Murton reaches base and one of the others drives him in...yadayada....

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Apr 10, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's one freaking week!

It is ONE FREAKING WEEK!

Judging by reactions to Sorianos first week you would have benched Sandberg every April.

For Cub fans spring training combines the eternal hope of spring with the irrational belief in the impossible.

by kerrysotherwife on Apr 10, 2007 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I too, have drooled...

over a Soriano, Lee, Ramirez trifecta in the middle of the order.

MARQUIS! YES, MARQUIS!

by thekansasian on Apr 10, 2007 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ME too

Can you a imagine a 3-4-5 of Lee, Ramirez and Soriano?!?

"Winning is the greatest marketing idea of all time." --Cubs President John McDonough

by cubbieblue on Apr 10, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Murton

would be a fine #2 hitter, better than Jones. He makes contact, takes pitches and gets on base. I understand the reasoning for putting Jones second in a mostly right handed lineup but I'm not sure that that reasoning outweighs losing the production Murton would bring. Maybe Lou has run the numbers and thinks otherwise.....

Pie wouldn't be a good leadoff hitter. He may look like one and play a position that leadoff hitters play but he doesn't seem to have the particular talents of a leadoff hitter. Like someone mentioned before the best spot for him right now, if he were on the team, would be 7th. And that might be the best spot for him for the next few years too, until he turns in to Jacque Jones part duex, or Juan Encarnacion incarnate. Maybe he'll be better than those guys and be a real middle of the lineup guy but right now I don't think he is.

The problem is that we don't have a real bona fide leadoff hitter. If not Soriano then who? I don't think DeRosa should be trusted yet, certainly not Izturis or {shudder} Cedano. Actually Murton might be the best option we have for leadoff, but since Soriano is going to be somewhat wasted in that spot then Murton should hit second, then Lee, Ramirez, either Jones or Floyd, then Barret. Against a lefty Jones should never be higher than 6th if he even gets to play at all.

Of course non of that addresses the outfield defense or where anyone should be playing. I guess Soriano has looked okay in center and I think he'll be just fine there once it becomes routine for him, remember he's not accustomed to it yet. He's a good athlete though and I don't have any doubt he'll be able to handle it. I'm okay with Murton in left but no matter what I wish we had a better defender in right, someone who could throw better than Jones or move better than Floyd. Murton would probably be overexposed for the time being in right, maybe he'll be able to handle it latter on but probably not right now.

by pageian on Apr 10, 2007 6:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I actually like Soriano in the leadoff spot.

I was leery at first, but in past years when the game was close towards the end I was hoping and praying that the lineup could eventually get back around to the 3-4-5 hitters to give us a shot at a big hit (no, I was not very optimistic with Pierre due up in a critical situation). Several times already this early season have I started to have those same thoughts when I hear the 8-9-1 hitters are up in the 8th inning, but then I realize that Soriano is that #1 hitter. I kinda like it. Call me crazy, but even though he's struggled early on I like the idea of having the power scattered around the lineup.

Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...

by eamuscatuli1881 on Apr 11, 2007 11:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs