Video analysis of Prior

by madmf on Apr 18, 2007 11:16 AM CDT Comment 19 comments

OK, here's my very first diary. I hope people find it worth taking a look at. I ran across a link to this article over on the Cubs MLB board and thought it would be worth bringing to people's attention over here:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/breaking-down-the-broken-down-a-video-analysis-of-mark-pri or

Carlos Gomez has broken up video of Prior's delivery as it's changed from 2001-2007 and found some clear differences that might explain some of his problems.

As there have been a couple of recent posts concerning Priors delivery past and present I thought this might be a useful addition. Not being very knowledgeable about the role of mechanics in pitching (other than to know that they play a significant role in a pitcher's success or failure) as others here are, I can't say that Gomez's conclusions are relevant. Comments would be appreciated.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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wow..

good find.

by Kchance on Apr 18, 2007 11:20 AM CDT reply actions

Thanks.

I would like to think that the powers that be within the Cubs organization have performed a similar analysis. I'm assuming this kind of thing is done all the time by Rothschild and others.

by madmf on Apr 18, 2007 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions

You know what "assume" stands for?

Don't assume anything with LR.

by CubFaninNY on Apr 18, 2007 11:46 AM CDT reply actions

Mark Prior sleeps with the fish

"The Chicago Cubs - where managers go to have their careers die"

by BlueMike on Apr 18, 2007 12:17 PM CDT reply actions

HAHHA....might i add?

"Leave the towel. Take the canoli."

by Chadnudj on Apr 18, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions

carlos gomez

He does this to compare many pitchers on the hardball times and every time I find it incredibly interesting.

by miltowncubbie on Apr 18, 2007 12:32 PM CDT reply actions

It is interesting.

I've been wondering for some time if this type of analysis was being done on any of the Cubs pitchers. I've seen it once or twice on Baseball Tonight but always for pitchers on other teams.

by madmf on Apr 18, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Wow

Probably the best link in a diary that I've ever seen on this blog, or any other blog for that matter.

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Apr 18, 2007 12:39 PM CDT reply actions

Modesty compells me.

I have to give credit to the person over on the Cubs MLB board who posted it originally who goes by the username of "ballstate1".

by madmf on Apr 18, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Naw, screw 'em

If he isn't cool enough to post it here, then he's not worthy to be mentioned! Well done.

Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...

by eamuscatuli1881 on Apr 19, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Too bad

Prior doesn't have those absurdly large calves anymore that Mr. Gomez alludes to. But I agree, very telling videography that confirms what many of us feel is wrong with pitchers these days: too much thinking and tinkering, not enough throwing.

"The fundamental principles of comedy and tragedy differ only in the last act."

by Kegler on Apr 18, 2007 1:10 PM CDT reply actions

yea nice

post. sometimes when i watch these i dont see a difference but this on the differences are very clear

by tbizzle83 on Apr 18, 2007 1:14 PM CDT reply actions

Prior

The problem with this analysis is that nobody can connect the dots on why Prior's body velocity has dropped 7-10 MPH. A change in mechanics is likely compensation for an arm problem. As much as I despise Prior, the guy is intelligent enough to adopt the best possible mechanics for his body and arm. He can't get back to his old mechanics because something physical and/or mental isn't letting him.

"The Chicago Cubs - where managers go to have their careers die"

by BlueMike on Apr 18, 2007 1:22 PM CDT reply actions

Great great find

It also appears that Mark is much more upright and square to the target than in previous years. If you compare the motion to that of a golfer, you see the stiffness of the delivery.

I also wonder how the time to the plate impacts the Asian pitchers who actually have a hitch in their delivery. And i wonder how much time Maddux takes for delivery.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Apr 18, 2007 2:32 PM CDT reply actions

It was brought to my attention 3 years ago...

that Prior has little to no leg strength. His calves are huge, but he has no thigh or butt musculature. He was really an "arms" pitcher all along. Maybe the Cubs will actually use their "official rehabilitation provider" for something.

by MerigoldBowling on Apr 18, 2007 2:48 PM CDT reply actions

Hhhmmmmm....

After watching this several times, two things jump out at me, and let me preface this with I have exactly no idea what I'm talking about, just making an observation.

#1. He seems to move his pitching arm much faster up to his head in the video from his USC days. Does this generate more 'whip' equating to more velocity? In the '07 clip he doesn't seem to do this. It's more of a straight line more than whipping action. The whipping action may lead to injury, and now he physically can't do it because he's possibly hurt.

#2.In the '07 clip when he plants his GS (glove side) foot down, he seems to torque his hips more than the USC clip, which is perfect. That hip torque alone will generate more velocity on a fastball. Maybe he's aware that he needs to torque his hips to compensate for that arm/elbow/shoulder, but that still isn't enough to get him above 90mph.

One other note, his confidence is really evident in his college days where he's aggressive and really attacking the batter. In the '07 clip he seems sort of meek up there.

I really think there's something wrong with that elbow. if it was mental you would think he'd realize this may be it for him and the he'd just say 'screw it' and go balls out, which would lead to his confidence coming back. But when there's truly something wrong, he isn't even able to go balls out to increase his confidence.

Man this post was too long. Sorry about that. There is just soooo much curiosity surrounding this guy.

Meatloaf

I never know what she's doing back there.

by MaTheMeatloaf on Apr 18, 2007 2:50 PM CDT reply actions

That goes along...

... with what I've thought for two years -- that he came back too fast from the elbow injury in 2005, and altered his delivery to the point where it causes repeated injuries.

A good historical comp is Dizzy Dean, who as you can see by his stats was on a Hall of Fame trajectory before being seriously injured in the 1937 All-Star Game; coming back too soon, he altered his pitching motion and kept getting hurt. After '37 he was basically done, although he had a decent couple of part-time years for the Cubs after that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Apr 18, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

You are right about #1

from a coaching perspective, when you teach a kid to pitch you teach, that, when he separates his hands he should do so quickly. This is the first builder of momentum before his body begins to move forward.

by tcjhawk on Apr 18, 2007 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Who is the "Mark Prior" you speak of?

For he bears a striking resemblance to one known around these parts as only "The Employee."

Interesting video. On a related note, the guys over at Cubscast recently re-posted an interview they conducted with a Dr. Mike Marshall, who had some pretty interesting things to say about The Employee's delivery.

I don't know anything about Dr. Marshall. To be honest, he comes off a little on the overbearing side, but if (for whatever reason) you're still interested in The Employee, it's worth a listen.

Here's a direct link to the Cubscast audio archives.

"I can't wait for the ivory to turn green. It means the weather is warming up, and we're in for a long summer of baseball." Lou Piniella, 4/12/07

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 18, 2007 4:13 PM CDT reply actions