Soriano is switching positions

by luv4cubs2 on Apr 21, 2007 2:48 PM CDT Comment 38 comments

According to cubs.com Soriano will play in left field when he returns to the lineup Monday night. The good news is that he feels good and wants to play now. It's probably a good idea to put him in left with the lower amount of work and running required. Im interested to see what the other 2 positions will be and how long it will take Pie to be sent back to AAA. Here is the link to the article.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070421&content_id=1922194&vkey=news_chc&a mp;fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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what will probably happen:

Soriano LF
Jones CF
Murton RF

by Chanman25 on Apr 21, 2007 2:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

but I wouldn't mind

Soriano LF
Pie CF
Murton//Floyd RF

by Chanman25 on Apr 21, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like that line up

May THAT be the ticket to the playoffs. May Theriot replace Iznothrowus and may everyone keep swinging the bat

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Apr 21, 2007 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PIE to CF

You heard Lou: "whoever is swinging the bat will write their own ticket."

I interpret that to mean Pie will play CF - because he's certainly more valuable as a hitter (and defender) than Junk Jones. I see Jones being traded - as both Murton and Floyd are clearly more valuable to this team.

"Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice."

by bringbackthebrownieelf on Apr 21, 2007 2:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We will see after today

but certainly Pie (small sample size) has not hit the cover off the ball. Several good hits but his average is low and if he wants to stay it must come up NOW or else I fear.

I can't play [golf] in Japan because every course has caddies, and the caddies all want autographs and don't want to let me golf." - Ichiro Suzuki

by tradeforichiro on Apr 21, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would carefully interpret this as

Pie is staying in the bigs. In my mind, there's no need to move Soriano from center unless Pie is taking over. Soriano was making adequate progress in learning center and no other OF on the roster will be a more competent CF except for Felix. Some may attempt to reason this as left will be a little easier when trying to nurse his injury, but at the end of the day, running is running. He's at no more risk in center than in left field.

I think we are going to see Murton or Jones moved fairly soon. I personally hope it's Jones. I think, for his role and his contract, Jacque has been a quality player given what we expected from him. We have discussed his shortcomings at length and while I would agree that he is not ideal, he has been serviceable.

Murton, on the other hand, is less of a known commodity than Jones. I'm not sure where his ceiling is. He has shown he can be selective and go to the opposite field. I think he's a less of a liability in the field than Jones, although Matt is pretty unspectacular. Average (at best) arm strength, but fairly accurate. Decent speed and good hustle. Possibly .300+ BA and .360+ OBA could be within reason. His splits are a little disconcerting at this point in his career and I think this is where his career will be decided. If he can improve against righties then he has a chance to he a solid #2 or #6 hitter in a productive lineup.

"Baseball is like Church. Many Attend; Few Understand." - Leo Durocher

by JD McCubbie on Apr 21, 2007 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I Secretly Hope

that you are right about Felix staying to man up CF for the Cubs.

However, in my opinion, I think that Felix is the odd man out due to his inexperience.

The other factor is that in order to break the log jam of outfielders, you have to start planting seeds with other ball clubs to initiate a trade. In order to move one of the outfielders, the Cubs will need to give whoever it is (Jones?) more playing time, not less. That's why I see Jones in CF full time until he can be moved in a trade.

Then, at that time, we will see Pie come up to stay with the Cubs permanently.

There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Apr 21, 2007 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

With all due respect

the concept of showing off a player in order to showcase him for a trade is seldom works. With all the scouts crisscrossing the country, there are really no unknowns. If the player is playing poorly, there is no sense continuing to play him at the expense of winning games. If he's playing well, he won't be traded anyway.

I hardly think there is any team that doesn't know exactly who JJ is and what he can and can't do. If he deserves to play, so be it. But not just in the hope that some uninformed team will want him on that basis.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Apr 22, 2007 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps you're right

However, if the Cubs intend to make a trade with Jones, it's better that he's starting. Not playing Jones only lowers the Cubs' negotiation position when it comes to making a deal.

I don't think that the Cubs want to trade him for a bag of peanuts and have to pick up 75% of his salary too just to make room on the roster.

There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Apr 22, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that Murton is the one out of the OF

simply because today (after announcing the move to LF) Jones is is RF. If Murton were going to stay you would give him the work now. He isnt getting it and probably will be replaced by Soriano when he gets back.

I can't play [golf] in Japan because every course has caddies, and the caddies all want autographs and don't want to let me golf." - Ichiro Suzuki

by tradeforichiro on Apr 21, 2007 3:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If the Cubs make that decision...

I wouldn't expect anything less from a franchise that hasn't won a World Series in 99 years. Let the talented prospect go, considering he's only making $400K/year. Yet, let's hold on to the OFers who are making 10x more $, and producing less than Murton if Murton actually were getting consistent AB's.

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Apr 21, 2007 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Murton

Murton's gone simply because he can be sent to the minors and Jones and Floyd cannot be sent to the minors and cannot be traded. This is yet another casualty of the really stupid signings by Hendry.

And, of course, today Murton's BA moved passed Jones and Floyd and is closing in one them in OPS. With the few number of AB's that he has, this is not a surprise.

But it does not matter. Murton's the one going down to the minors.

by frustratedfan on Apr 21, 2007 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One offensive liability

Where the Cubs have such a feast or famine offense, scoring 1 run on one day, and 8 runs the next, they need more hitters who steadily get on base (i.e. Theriot, and Murton when he actually gets consistent AB's). With our lack of offense, I think the Cubs can only afford one offensive liability in the line-up.
Although I like Izturis' defense, I think Pie's defense in CF is far more valuable, given our lack of CF's. I'm also not anticipating Pie to be much better at the plate than Izturis. Pie will certainly have FAR MORE home runs and triples than Izturis, but I don't think his overall OBP or even SLG % will differ THAT much. I think that Pie should therfore bat 8th, and Izturis (along with Jones) should bet traded as soon as possible. Theriot's bat (@ SS) and in the 2-hole would be far more valuable.

To those like Al, who believe Theriot couldn't cut it at SS, I say this....
On average, Theriot get's on base (career OBP of .387) 46 times more than Iztuirs per 500 AB's! (Izturis' career OBP of .294, and only .250 this year!!)
I ask Al and all others who doubt Theriot's ability to play SS.. Even if Theriot is that much worse than Izturis (who I think is overrated on D anyways) defensively @ SS, do you really think Theriot is going to allow roughly 46 more baserunners per opponents' 500 AB's. This is the question we must ask when doing the cost benefit analysis.
Per 500 AB's, Theriot will reach base roughly 46 times more than Izturis. In however many games it takes Theriot to get 500 AB's, we'll he have played such awful defense at SS to allow 46+ more baserunners than Izturis' defense would allow?

I think Theriot's offense far outweighs Izturis' supposed defensive prowess @ SS.

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Apr 21, 2007 3:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

finally.....

someone agrees with me!! izturis sucks bad bad bad and so does cedeno. they both are for sure outs each time they bat and they WONT get any better. theriot has to be at ss everyday and derosa has to be at 2nd everyday. to hell with any platoon. as far as floyd goes he is a superb PH, day off for a regular fill in.

Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Apr 21, 2007 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A baserunner allowed

A baserunner allowed does not equal a baserunner earned. It doesn't work that way. A baserunner allowed is worse than losing an at bat. Don't you think that Lou would play Theriot at short over Izturis(or Cedeno) if he thought Theriot could handle the position. You haven't seen Theriot in right since he misplayed that ball last week either. What you are saying sounds great if it would work but Theriot is not a major league Short Stop or Right Fielder.

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Apr 21, 2007 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How so?

You haven't explained yourself, how is Theriot's possible mistakes, which would result in more runners reaching base, different than Theriot himself reach base more often?

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Apr 22, 2007 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and you didn't asnwer my question...

Does Theriot's OBP cover for his supposed defensive liabilities. I didn't as if Theriot was a real "major league short stop". Just apply the cost-benefit analysis and tell me your opinion, it's a yes or no question...

In the amount of games it takes Theriot to get 500 PA (assuming he generally starts @ SS), would he allow 46 MORE hitters to reach base compared to Izturis?

Please give me a "yes" or "no" answer. I'm not asking how good you if Theriot is a real SS, if we really landed on the moon, or who our 5th president was. Instead of some convaluted response, please just answer "yes" or "no" to my question.

Personally, in that many games, I think Theriot would allow only 10-20 more base runners than Iztuirs, and therefore, according to the cost-benefit analysis, Theriot should be our starting SS.

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Apr 22, 2007 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My argument stands

Lou would play Theriot at short if he thought Theriot could play short. I think your number of 46 allowed runners may be more accurate than you believe. Not just errors but balls not gotten to, missed double plays, inexperience at the position would add to that total. We saw it last week with people playing out of position Theriot in right Soriano in center and Jones in left, how many bad plays did we see. And again, which for some reason you just ignored, a baserunner allowed due to error or misplay is worse than a lost at bat.

Outs are the most valuable thing in baseball, besides of course runs scored. When an out is missed you have just given an opponent a four out inning, which besides making it easier to score makes your pitcher throw more pitches. Not just more pitches but pitches with runners on base. The difference between Theriot and Izturis at short may lead to your number of 46 more times reaching base over the course of the season but that does not out weigh the allowed or missed oppotunities for outs.

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Apr 22, 2007 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

foolish

your argument is foolish.
You think there is a greater problem w/ faulty D than great offense because faulty D essentially allows the other team to have 4 outs instead of 3.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? DID YOU JUST USE THAT ARGUMENT?!!

Do you not realize it works the same for us. Izturis grounding out vs. Theriot reaching base safely essentially gives us 4 OUTS INSTEAD OF 3!!!

It works the exact same when Theriot reaches base (instead of Izturis making another out) as Theriot causing someone to reach base (instead of getting the out).

Therefore, if the riot can reach base more often than his D allows runners to reach (where Izturis would prevent them from reaching), than Theriot is a better choice to have in the lineup.

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Apr 22, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Fact Is

The fact is Theriot can not play short at a major league level. His inability to make routine plays would kill the pitching. If he could play short Lou would play him there, do you think Lou is dumb.

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Apr 22, 2007 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And using .387 for Theriot's OBP

is misleading. He won't do that again. He's at .356 this year but note two disturbing facts:

2 walks in 43 AB's. That's no better than Soriano.
0 extra base hits.

I'm just not on the Theriot at SS bandwagon. Not that I like Cedeno or Izturis much at this point either.

by rlpete on Apr 22, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, you have to like one of them

so who would you choose? Izturis? That's an awful choice. This team will already have one offensive liability with Pie in CF. They need Theriot's bat in the line up.

Besides, even if we use Theriot's season OBP instead of his career, (and use Izturis' season OBP of .250) IT ACTUALLY FURTHER HELPS MY ARGUMENT, Theriot's season OBP creates an even bigger margin from Izturis' season OBP)

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Apr 22, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Confusion

In the thread, "LF vs RF" started by Nickler, Al writes,

Right field...
... requires a better and more accurate throwing arm, since RF are often required to try to throw runners out at third and home. The throw to third, obviously, is shorter from LF.

and former college outfielder MPH73 writes,

Also, one of the most important plays in baseball, is when you have a runner on first and there is a basehit to RF. It is important to keep that runner off of third, and is tough to do if you don't have an arm that is respected.

So, I'm confused as to why Soriano is not playing right field considering he had 22 assists last year compared to Murton's 3 and Jones' 0, and Floyd's 3. This sounds like a "respected arm" and many comments on BCB echo this respect.

Considering Al's and MPH73's statements that a strong arm is highly important for a Right Fielder, Soriano appears to be the obvious long term choice for Right Field and one of the other three (my preference is Murton) fight for that Left Field spot.

Any help you can give me would be appreciated.

by Rev Gunia on Apr 21, 2007 6:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Soriano's arm was not respected at ALL...

...hence the large number of assists. Large number of opportunities.

by cwyers on Apr 21, 2007 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano

It wasn't his arm that they were "disrespecting", it was his horrific positioning and inability to get into a good position to make the catch and throw. His arm is good and is known to be good.

by frustratedfan on Apr 21, 2007 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think because...

....the whole purpose behind moving Soriano back to LF is because I think Piniella believes his Offense is suffering from the daily rigors CF presents.

So having said that, a move to RF and having to learn another position would defeat the main purpose of moving him out of CF. Plus RF at Wrigley is unquestionably the hardest RF to play than any other RF in Major League Baseball.

This move means the Cubs will have some very interesting decisions to make.

"What's it all about? Booze, Broads and bullshit." Harry Caray

by lemon17pie on Apr 21, 2007 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought...

that someone would bring up the added frustration that Soriano would experience by learning yet another outfield position and add the oft-repeated observation that Wrigley has the hardest Right Field of all major league parks.

As I was thinking about this, I suppose one Lou would have to consider is Soriano's long-term future with the Cubs. Is RF Soriano's natural position? If it is, then, IMO, the sooner he moves to his natural positiion the better. If RF is not his natural/long-term position, then why not? What makes him a better LF or CF?

I agree that the daily rigors of CF would diminish his offensive numbers--I was never a proponent of putting him in CF for that very reason--but I don't think that horrible defense has motivated Lou as much as some excellent defense by Pie. His performance, combined with Soriano's awkwardness in CF, combined with the potentially diminished offensive production made Soriano's move out of CF the clear choice.

by Rev Gunia on Apr 21, 2007 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with everything that was said

plus look at the facts, the two "Best" arms in RF only registered:

Ichiro: 8 assists (+1 in CF)
Vlad: 7 assists

Reputation is almost better than actually having the arm (although I suppose you need the arm before you get the rep)

I can't play [golf] in Japan because every course has caddies, and the caddies all want autographs and don't want to let me golf." - Ichiro Suzuki

by tradeforichiro on Apr 21, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and....

and izturis and cedeno are mot major league hitters

Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Apr 21, 2007 7:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

mot?

members of the...?

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Apr 21, 2007 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wtf ru

spellcheck?

Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Apr 21, 2007 8:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

pie looks like a natural in center field

and makes this outfield defense a hell of a lot better when hes out there, i can live with his stuggles at the plate if he plays center the way ive seen since hes been up here

by CubsBall2202 on Apr 21, 2007 11:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is called

"having a bench". We have people on the bench that can play outfield well. That's the way it should be. I know it's in our good nature as Cub fans to appease our personal favorite and have him be the starter, but that's the way it goes when you're on a team that has talent.

Pie is amazing defensively, his glove, plate patience, and speed will make up for his current BA. He also can't hit leftys at all, so that means Murton will definitely play anytime there is a lefty. After that, it's gonna be Jones/Murton/Floyd vs. pitcher matchups. Not the worst problem in the world to have.

"Ronny Cedeno seems like the type of guy who could run over himself with his own car.." Earth2Sean

by Matt Allison on Apr 22, 2007 2:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It's as simple

as this. To win championships you need good defense up the middle. Time honored theory. Clearly LF is best fit for Soriano. I'll bet Lou knew this all along. It appeared to be a touchy subject where or where not Soriano was to play. He (Lou) is smart taking this opportunity (injury)to move Soriano to LF. I only hope is that Pie can hit somewhat decent. In a very brief time he has shown wonderful defensive play. The kind of defense, dare I say, that wins championships.

"Billy was put here for....to teach us to treat each other better"

by wild bill on Apr 22, 2007 7:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

shortstop

seems everybody is still locked into the nomar/tejada/jeter/ mindset when it comes to shortstop.the days of the superstar shortstop look to be over so let,s get used to the 240 hitter again.in the outfield murton looks to be the big loser.wish we could trade jones

by NOMAR on Apr 22, 2007 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

RF?

Lots of folks on this diary assume that Murton will be the "loser" with Soriano moving to LF.

I don't see it. As a matter of fact, I see Floyd as the big loser in this move. Murton is athletic enough to play RF, and there is a long term motivation to see if he can handle that position, plus, how would Floyd ever play if he was sharing RF time with Jones? I don't think anyone should read into yesterday's lineup. As of now, Jones is the best fielding RF option, and the Cubs needed a win yesterday, so Lou was wise to use the lineup he did.

At this point, I envision trading Jones and cutting Ward. Murton/Floyd (gulp) will be the new RF options, I alse see Pagan being recalled in this scenario. Floyd would start some in RF, and then take over Ward's role as PH/1B backup.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Apr 22, 2007 12:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Observation

If Cliffy has an 0-fer today and if Jones doesn't have a reasonably good day, Murton will have the best OPS of any Cub outfielder on the day that he is sent to the minors. And yet its Murton that is the target of the stat-a-phobes and young player haters.

by frustratedfan on Apr 22, 2007 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Murton to minors?

I just can't imagine why/how murton will be sent down. He is doing fine at this point, and would be the only righty OFer outside of Soriano. Not only that, as it is, on days he doesn't start, he is the only decent right handed bat off the bench with any pop.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Murton, but the Cubs would need to get value in return for him, and at this point in the season that isn't going to happen.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Apr 22, 2007 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs