Soriano dropped in the batting order?

by Rev Gunia on May 16, 2007 8:58 PM CDT Comment 19 comments

From the lovely and talented Carrie Muskat on Cubs.com:

Cubs manager Lou Piniella wouldn't commit on Wednesday, but he is considering moving Soriano to the second spot and inserting Ryan Theriot into the leadoff spot.

Why does Muskat feel confident writing this when Piniella et. al. were seemingly committed to keeping Soriano at leadoff long-term? It's this cryptic Piniella facial expression:

Asked if he was tempted to have a lineup of Theriot, Soriano, Lee and Aramis Ramirez, in that order, Piniella smiled.

But any move of this sort would require the consent of our $136 million dollar man, Mr. Soriano. He would have to be on board with any such move in the batting order. What does our Left Fielder have to say concerning the batting order.

"[Batting leadoff] is important for me, but now I'm batting third because Derrek Lee's not here," Soriano said. "If he wants me to move when Lee comes back, batting third or batting in a different part of the lineup, it's [Piniella's] decision. I'll do whatever he wants, because I think he wants to do something to make the team better."

Not exactly a whole-hearted embrace of the number two slot, but it looks like he's at least open to it because of his respect for Piniella. Good to see. Not only that, but he cites a "the team is more important than any individual player" philosophy.

But on a similar note, if they move Soriano down in the order to the two-hole, they're still not moving him down far enough. If Uncle Lou ever called me up and asked me what sort of line-up I'd like to see, it would be as follows:

1--Theriot
2--Lee
3--Soriano
4--Ramirez
5--Murton
6--Barrett
7--Jones
8--DeRosa
9--the Pitcher

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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soriano

Soriano's comment's are to be expected. Though it may really be true that he is ok with it, part of me thinks that's just him giving the generic answer.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on May 17, 2007 7:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In today's Sun-Times...

...there's this great chart (scroll down to the bottom) showing Soriano's batting stats in various spots in the lineup.

Based on it, I'd bat him fifth, where his numbers are more similiar to those he puts up batting lead-off (and where he has more experience.)

I think Soriano strikes out way too much to bat second. Plus, why waste his power potential trying to move over the lead-off runner?

Of course, that begs the question: Who the hell should bat second? I hate to suggest it, but I can see Lou's thinking in Jones or Floyd (against righties only, of course), as they could, theoretically, hit to the right side, allowing the THE RIOT to get to second.

Otherwise, it seems to me Barrett is still one of the Cubs better contact hitters, though I'd worry about him making contact and sending the ball to the SS for a lot of GIDPs. I'd maybe put Pagan in the two-hole when he's starting.

Any other suggestions? How is FON TENOT at situational hitting?

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by dat cubfan daver on May 17, 2007 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

re: Any other suggestions?

I have Lee batting second because of his high on-base percentage, his ability to hit for multiple-bases (specifically, doubles), he's faster than most, and I don't forsee as many home runs as we're used to from Lee.

Because he has yet to display (at least this season thus far) the power he's known for, he would be effective batting second. It would be an intimidating 1-5 lineup, keep the 1st-inning-run-potential high, and make effective use of the power hitters we do have.

If not Lee, then Murton would be effective hitting second for similar reasons as Lee. But I would steer away from Floyd and Jones because of their propensity to strike out.

by Rev Gunia on May 17, 2007 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For me...

... it's Murton. Or maybe even Michael Barrett.

But Lee needs to hit third.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 17, 2007 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Batting order

Lot's of variables here, but this is what I would do and why:

RH Pitcher

Theriot
Floyd
Lee
Ramirez
Soriano
Barrett
Jones
Izturis

Theriot has the traits of a good leadoff hitter or 2-hole hitter - good speed, good hitter, patient and smart baserunner. Floyd is not the perfect 2-hole guy, but he allows you to break up your left handed bats and also can pull the ball in the hole with a runner on 1st. Lee is your best hitter, and belongs 3rd. Ramirez is your next best hitter with pop, and you put him 4th. Soriano is best at 5th, he can protect Ramirez, and also use his speed more, because you take more base stealing risks, with the 6-7-8 guys coming up. Also, I think Barrett is a good guy to do some hit&Run and Run and Hit with, because he is a decent contact guy.

"Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year" - Sparky Anderson

by MPH73 on May 17, 2007 9:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

re: Batting order

Yeah, recognizing the many variables in play, I like that lineup a lot.

Maybe it's me but, for all of his power, Floyd's bat speed seems markedly slow. One upside to this is that, if he's batting second and he hits the ball on the ground, he's more likely to send the ball to the right side so the lead-off man can advance to second.

Of course, that leads us to Floyd's defensive liabilities, but let's not go there.

JJ seems to hit more sharp grounders that leave open the possibility of turning two. Oh, and I must concede that I am noticing that as soon as Jones is down two strikes, he's usually out already.

And I agree about Barrett, though, as you point out, batting Barret second would give the Cubs at least five right-handed hitters in a row. That's why I suggested batting Pagan second when he's in.

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by dat cubfan daver on May 17, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"IF" Soriano would go for it,

then I'd definitely bat him # 3 and move Derrek Lee to # 5.

Theriot (2nd)
Barrett (Cat) vs RHP, Murton (RF) vs LHP
Soriano (LF)
Ramirez (3rd)
Lee (1st)
Floyd (RF) vs RHP, Barrett (Cat) vs LHP
Jones, Pagan (CF)
Izturis (SS)

"He'd been working the program very dedicated ever since he threw Little Paulie out that window."

by BlueMike on May 17, 2007 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

re: "IF" Soriano would go for it,

So the lack of lefties in the first half-plus of the lineup wouldn't bother you?

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by dat cubfan daver on May 17, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You want a 3 hole hitter to keep the inning alive

and Soriano K's too often, and is not as good a hitter as Lee. I really think he is best in the 5-hole.

Actually, if Pie keeps progressing, I wouldn't mind seeing him in the 2 hole, with Floyd dropping to sixth against righties.

"Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year" - Sparky Anderson

by MPH73 on May 17, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re: You want a 3 hole hitter to keep the inning al

D'oh -- good point about Pie. When he shows he can hit consistently, he'll be a great number two hitter. Lefty. Speedy. Looks like that guy from "Rush Hour." Perfect.

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by dat cubfan daver on May 17, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you want...

the best OBP player in the league right now to bat 5th? Why? So the bottom of the order can fail to get a runner home?

No thanks. I might be willing to move DLee to the #2 spot, but I'm not a fan of having DLee batting any lower the third spot. In the 2nd or 3rd spot, he'll have some good hitters behind him capable of driving him in.

If I was going to move anyone down to 5th, I'd move Soriano to the 5th spot, where his power could drive in Lee or Ramirez, and he could still run in front of the weaker hitters to produce easier run producing chances for them.

by SouthernCub on May 17, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re: So you want...

Right, and as I pointed out above, Soriano's numbers in the five-hole aren't all that far off from his numbers leading off.

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by dat cubfan daver on May 17, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other than that though...

I'm okay with the rest of the lineup. Barrett/Murton in the 2 spot is good for OBP and hitting to the right side, and Floyd/Barrett in the #6 is good for driving in runs.

by SouthernCub on May 17, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ask yourself a question

Who is the better hitter? Lee or Soriano? Whoever that is, you want them in the 3 hole, to keep innings going, and to have the opportunity to get more AB's. To me, their many years of history would tell me you want Lee in the 3-hole.

"Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year" - Sparky Anderson

by MPH73 on May 17, 2007 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's only really relevant...

if you assume the first two hitters are getting out. The third hitter's job isn't to avoid the third out - it's to produce runs AND create opportunities for the 4 and 5 hitters. If Lee is batting second, he's going to be getting on base a bunch, which will extend innings as well.

I don't have a problem with Soriano in the #3 spot except if it means our best OBP guy is bumped down to the #5 spot.

by SouthernCub on May 17, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OMG!

Did I just see a flash of Murton in your lineup? BM, in this circumstance, I must say I readily agree with your conclusions--though at this point, I don't see how bringing Pie back from Iowa could possibly hurt this team. That said, Pagan has done a nice job since returning to the show.

No room for De Rosa? Hmmmm ...

"No ballplayer's here because of the Mariners!" ~ Sam Malone

by Littlerock Rynofan on May 17, 2007 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing about Soriano early in the order

is that he can wreak total havoc early in the first inning. It hasn't happened really often so far this year, but a lead-off homer, for instance, can really change the opposing pitcher's mindset. That being said, it'd be nicer to get a dinger with a couple guys on base. I do like seeing the combination of Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez together in some order -- that can really scare a pitcher.

by John Q Freejazz on May 17, 2007 11:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Soriano Love

For all of us Cubbie fans, you've got to admit it's refreshing to see a superstar be as flexible as Soriano has been so far. From going to center, which he never played prior to this season, going back to left field, and now switching positions in the batting order w/o a complaint is something I'm not used to. I remember "#21" making a big stick about moving down in the order. I have to admit, Hendry did a good thing by bringing Soriano to the team. His offense is great and we're just starting to witness that. His defense,in left field, has been better than we've seen in how many years? I like the offense, except situational hitting, but the bullpen concerns me. It's only May 17th, so there's hope of a turnaround.

by cubbyfan4ever on May 17, 2007 12:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

definitely prefer the The Riot, Sori, Lee and ARam 1 through 4... Sori may not be thrilled w/ batting 2nd, but it's better than placing him further down the order at 5th. He obviously has a preference for the top of the order...

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on May 17, 2007 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs