It wasn't really Dusty who guided the team though, was it?? That was an 88 win team......all Dusty did was sit around and pitch Prior and Wood 8 innings every time they took the mound.......I fail to see how Dusty deserves any credit.

No offense, but I think you just picked a lame argument.......you want people to forget about Dusty and yet you started a thread about Dusty.

Alou had a bounce-back year.  Patterson had an emergent first half.  Zambrano emerged.  Clement was very effective.  Prior was amazing.  Wood was amazing.  And they got the great mid-season trade for Ramirez and Lofton.

Dusty had nothing to do with any of those, and THOSE are the reason the team succeeded.  Dusty just happened to be sitting in the dugout when it happened.

Dusty did not make Prior a Cy Young quality starter.  He didn't cause Wood have a 266 K season with an ERA in the mid-3s.  He didn't cause Zambrano to be so good.  He didn't cause Clement to be an effective starter.

You mention Leyland.  He won the WS in 97 with the Marlins, and than the owners sold off some of the players, and guess what, the team was horrid the very next year.  Same for Torre in St. Louis and New York, LaRussa in St. Louis etc. etc.

You mentioned the young Marlins of 03 that finished strong and won the World Series under McKeon, because he was hands on with the young players.  Well, you have that a bit backwards, the 03 team won because of several key veterans (Rodriquez, Lowell, Penny, Pavano).  Guess what happened when those players started to leave in the next year or two?  They went downhill real fast.  You said they needed McKeon's hands on approach because they were young? They actually got younger in 04 and 05, and he was pushed out the door because they didn't like his style with the young players, they said he wasn't patient enouph.

The GM is where it is at, he hires managers, minor league instructors/directors, scouts and signs FA's and makes trades.  If you have a good one, you will win with a myriad of managers.

your arguments have like 10 flaws within the first like 2 sentences.

Dude..no, just no.

I agree that the two should not have gotten that far.  But the players attacked Stone for being critical/honest, and Baker backed the players in attacking Stone, and the organization did nothing to suggest that it was silly that the players and manager were turning on a broadcaster when it was the players and manager that were screwing up out there.

If (a) the players had shown some backbone and accountability, (b) the manager had shown some ability to manage the problem without turning on Stone, or (c) the organization had shown any support of Stone, the problem wouldn't have reached its breaking point.

Personally, when you wrote your first sentence, I thought you were defending Stone.  TV people talk and manager's manage.  Dusty had no right getting involved in that, yet, he did.

By the way, I do think that Brenly and Kasper are good, just not as good as Stone and anybody else.

He should have done better in Game 6 and Game 7. But BY FAR the worst thing Dusty did was allow the collapse during the final week of 2004.

That was the best Cubs team we might ever see. The lineup, if right-handed heavy, never has had that much talent and was much better than it had been a year earlier (to say nothing of comparisons to 2005 and 2006). Prior and Wood, in September, were healthy and pitching. Zambrano and Maddux were strong. The bullpen, while still weak, was better than it was the year before.

And, with a week to play, the Cubs were playoff bound with a bunch of games at home against the hapless Reds and the Braves, whom the Cubs took out a year earlier in the NLDS.

But Dusty let the pressure of high expectations boil over. The season ended so badly that we had to get rid of a lot of talent (Farnsworth, Alou, Sammy, even Mercker) because those players had made asses of themselves. And we didn't replace them adequately in '05 or in '06.

Dusty may have allowed things to fall apart against the Marlins. But allowing things to fall apart in September 2004 was FAR more devastating to the franchise. I still can't believe that team, despite all its injuries, didn't make the playoffs.

But Dusty was too busy bitching about Steve Stone to stop the bleeding.

Dusty's actions from the Victor Diaz game to the season finale at home against Atlanta were a disgrace at the time. And looking back, they might be even more galling.

I know most baseball fans remember Bartman and would think that was more painful. The 2004 collapse, to me, was far more significant. I've been a Cubs fan all my life, and that was BY FAR the most disappointed I've ever been.