Cardinals Carpenter Going Under The Knife

by brianp88 on May 5, 2007 2:57 PM CDT Comment 30 comments

This is a really tough blow for that team:

"Carpenter, a 15-game winner last year and the NL Cy Young award winner in 2005, will be out at least three months, the team said Saturday. An exam on Friday with Dr. George Paletta, the team's medical supervisor, revealed recurrent swelling, stiffness and loss of motion."

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cardinals-carpenter&prov=ap&type=lgns

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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The Cards are 31-5 this month

And I actually feel a little sorry for 'em. But that will soon disappear :)

Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on May 5, 2007 3:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

When I saw highlites of them play the Astros yesterday, I actually found myself rooting for them to win. Which I think had to be a first. I wondered how long that would last and I figured about a week.

This is just the icing on the cake of a lost season. It's only May 5th (Cinco feliz de mayo!)and already their season is over. While we as Cub fans know how that feels, I have so much respect for the game of Baseball that I wouldn't wish that on any team's fanbase, even the despised Cardinals fan base.

One of the great things about the 2003 season was that we beat the Cardinals (and Astros!) for the Division, which was lacking in '98.

On the other hand, it appears the Cubs-Brewers rivalry will be taken to a new level this year.

"What's it all about? Booze, Broads and bullshit." Harry Caray

by lemon17pie on May 5, 2007 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This will be...

... a lost season for the Cardinals. They weren't that good a team in 2006 -- only won 83, and had two 8-game losing streaks -- and got hot at the right time to win a title.

They could lose 90 games this year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 5, 2007 3:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes

The Cardinals won't be the worst defending World Champion (that goes to the 1998 Marlins, of course) but they could end up being the worst defending World Champion that was actually trying.

Pretty much nothing has gone right for them this season. Ninety losses might be a bit conservative. They're also suffering a bit from what the Angels did in 2003--being blinded by their championship into not making necessary changes.

Of course, I don't think any Cub fan wouldn't trade places with them--suffering through a miserable season in exchange for a World Series Championship the year before.

by Josh77 on May 5, 2007 3:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about that.

Their current Pythagorean Win Expectation says they're a .285 team, or roughly 46 victories over the course of a full season. They look really bad right now, and I don't think it's as cut and dried as saying they WON'T be as bad as the Marlins were. I don't think they'll be quite that bad, but it's certainly possible -- especially if something else goes wrong for them, another injury perhaps.

It's hard to see where this team is going to improve from, too. Edmunds and Rolen look like they've hit the skids on the downward slide of their careers. (I don't have a link handy, but I recall Nate Silver saying that aging sluggers sometimes tend to drop off hard, rather than regress slowly.) Pujols is heating up again -- he's hitting .471/.550/.706 over the last seven -- but it doesn't seem to be helping. Their farm system has exceedingly little to offer.

I agree with Al -- this is a rebuilding year for them. The sad part is, the organization has shown no signs of realizing that up until this point. The beauty of a fire sale is that you at least get value. The '98 Marlins at least had promise, and prospects. What do the Cards have?

by cwyers on May 5, 2007 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good post

but I think it's darn near impossible for the Cardinals to lose 108 games like the 1998 Marlins did. Especially with all the games they are going to get to play against the Pirates, Astros and Royals. The pythagorean is a little skewed at this point.

I suppose if Pujols goes out for the season, they could hit 100 losses, but they'd still be pressed to hit 108.

The problem with considering this a rebuilding year is: Who are they rebuilding with? Anthony Reyes and Chris Duncan? They just don't have any young interesting prospects. You don't "rebuild" around Preston Wilson and Adam Kennedy. John Sickels calls their farm system "thin" and none of their prospects are in the majors right now.

The Marlins in 1998 had Derek Lee, Edgar Renteria, Mark Kotsay and Ryan Dempster. Only Lee would be around by the time they won a second championship, but you could at least see what they were re-building around. With the Cardinals, this could be the beginning of a long dark age. Good thing they locked Pujols up long-term before this set in.

by Josh77 on May 5, 2007 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Duncan...

... is a pretty good player. But you're right, other than that, who do they build around?

Honestly, there are a couple of role players on that team that might be useful, maybe even to the Cubs, later in the year; Scott Spiezio and So Taguchi come to mind.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 5, 2007 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Duncan

is a good to great hitter, but he's a DH playing the outfield. And moving him to first base is just not an option.

Oh, I sort of forgot to mention the 1998 Marlins had Cliff Floyd too. I had just looked it up too. Throw in Livan Hernandez, Justin Speier, and Craig Counsell, and they had seven or eight players who would have a decade or more ahead of them in the majors.

Other than Duncan and maybe Reyes, I have trouble seeing that with any of the current Cardinals. (Well, Pujols naturally.)

by Josh77 on May 5, 2007 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

duncan's defense has improved dramatically

the guy is now an average left fielder and is getting better all the time, both in the field and at the plate. however, he does hit in front of pujols, which surely helps protect him, and larussa seems very hesitant to put him in another spot where he might be exposed.

I don't care about a world series, just be competitive thru September.

by buckmulligan on May 5, 2007 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no so...

we shouldn't want anything to do with him, a below average outfield replacement. yuck. spezio is a good guy to have coming off the bench however, switch-hitter, good in the clutch.

I don't care about a world series, just be competitive thru September.

by buckmulligan on May 5, 2007 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wouldn't it be worth it

to have Taguchi on the roster in September, just to listen to Ron Santo laugh about his name? :-)

by Josh77 on May 5, 2007 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So...Taguchi...

My favorite Ron Santo remarks on Taguchi (paraphrased):

"It sounds like the beginning of a sentence. 'So...Taguchi...what are you doing after the game?' or 'So, Taguchi, where do you want to go to eat?'"

I agree. Sign him for the comdic value alone!

by Rev Gunia on May 6, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently after you win a WS you can suck

The Carpenter injury was not really forseable even if he had injury issues in the past but nearly EVERYTHING else about them was. Jockety is suppossed to be one of the top GM's in baseball but he lets Suppan & Marquis walk but offers a contract to JEFF WEAVER ( who stupidly turns it dow) I get letting Marquis go but Suppan ? They don't have enough money to re-sign him and think they can replace the 3 of them with Kip Wells, Looper, Wainright etc? It is not as if they went out and spent serious money on players that did not work out, they just seemed to think they could get away with converting a bunch of relief pitchers or 3rd rate starters into good pitchers.

I honestly don't know if they where being cheap or so egotistical that they thought Dave Duncan and Tony could get any bad players to suddenly become great.

Well they got the WS and I am sure any of us would be happy to have that and suck the next year ( or century) but I still think it shows contempt for the fans

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on May 5, 2007 3:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't care

what sport (football, baseball and so on) when an all star caliber player is lost to injury, it only hurts the game itself.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on May 5, 2007 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't wish for stuff like this...

... and it's bad for the reason you state.

However, that said, I don't mind that it will hurt the Cardinals' team prospects for this year.

FWIW, the Cardinals' 11-17 start is their worst since 1990. For those who like to make comparisons in such events, the 1990 season was St. Louis' last 90+ loss year (they went 70-92). I could see a year like that for them in 2007.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 5, 2007 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Al.

with all due respects, even with Carpenter the Cards still would not make a run at it. His injusr only cements the year that is destined for the Cards.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on May 5, 2007 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

duncan

i dont think chris duncan is exactly a spring chicken. if i'm not mistaken he's like 28 or so. i have to believe the cards gm will not stand pat. he never has and he never will. something big will be forthcoming for them i guarantee it. but until they do something go cubbies enjoy the bottom of pack cards fans. hahahahahahahahahaha

Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 5, 2007 4:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Today

Is Chris Duncan's 26th birthday.

So no, he's not a hot young guy, but he's not as old as you make him out to be.

by Josh77 on May 5, 2007 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stick a fork in them

they're done.

Anyone know what cardinal meat tastes like?

With all due seriousness though, they are done. Kip Wells is proving why he's Kip Wells, Carpenter dl'd, Edmonds is showing what used to me a normal age related career regression, Pujols isn't even really Pujols yet. There isn't much upside for that team. They weren't a great team to begin with and with their offense not clicking and the pitching in a tailspin there isn't much hope of them getting straightened out. This really is most likely a lost season.

by pageian on May 5, 2007 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't give up on the Cards just yet

...any team with Albert Pujols is going to get back into the groove, eventually. I don't think that Edmunds or Rolen are ready to give up, either. They have some good hitters. The Cubs were down and have bounced back. I look for the Cardinals to do the same.

by Butchoh31 on May 5, 2007 7:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

We are looking at two different teams. The Cubs had know where to go but up. The Cards had know where to go but down. With regards to Edmonds and Rolen, I am afraid they are on their final legs. Soriano, Lee will be hitting their prime. The Cubs have bounced back because quite simply, they have a better team.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on May 5, 2007 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

rolen's 32

how old are lee and soriano?

I don't care about a world series, just be competitive thru September.

by buckmulligan on May 5, 2007 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Excuse me

But I have my blue colored glasses on.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on May 5, 2007 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really

it seems that Rolen and Edmonds are on the down side of their careers, regardless of their age. Lee and Soriano seem to be more on the rise or at minimum playing at a level that is not in decline.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on May 6, 2007 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are done without an overhaul

Rolen and Edmonds have a history of injuries. Don't count on them both lasting the year, and being productive to career standards. They have two middle infielders that are below average hitters, meaning zero power from the middle. Duncan is a statue in the field. And, they don't have much in the pipeline.

by Nibbles on May 5, 2007 7:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

once again....

i've said it once and i will say it again. dont think for one minute that larussa,their gm, and their fans are gonna stand pat and allow a total ass whipping. they arent down without a fight. as much as i hate the cards they cant be counted out. not now not ever!!! go cubbies

Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 5, 2007 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I tend to agree....

We have seen the wheels fall off so gosh-darn many times, and for f*cks sake, it hardly ever happens to the Cardinals.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on May 5, 2007 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Cardinals are finished in 2007

But at least they can be comforted with that World Series title of last year.

Evidently, Kerry Wood has entered the Witness Relocation Program. Picture of him is on my milk carton.

by BlueMike on May 5, 2007 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If...

If Kerry Wood is in the Witness Relocation Program, why would the FBI and/or CIA release his name and such to the milk companies? That would be counter-productive. If anything, it's probably a runaway and/or kidnapped child on your pint of milk...a child who (interestingly enough) will grow up to look exactly like Kerry Wood through the magic of computer age projection technology.

The computer also tells us that this Kerry Wood double will also have a myriad of arm injuries. Scary!

by Rev Gunia on May 6, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs