Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

Preparing for the inevitbale - Z leaving.

Cnn/Si has an article that is the first hard look at the dissolving of Z's extension in the wake of the sale. Apparently, Hendry wants to get it done but "it's out of his hands."

He's been my favorite Cub since he was a rookie, I knew he was the real deal even as everyone fawned over Wood, then Prior.

The thing to prepare ourselves for is: is he dealt? That would seem to make sense only if we were out of the race which means we're in a catch-22: the more success during the season, the higher the likelihood that he walks, Maddux style after the season because we'd need him for any October push.

About the only mid-season deal that makes sense would be involving A-Rod but that's simply the realm of science fiction.

I guess a WS tophy would be worth it, but that's a long shot as well. I see no good way out of this.

Star-divide

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/05/07/daily.scoop.tuesday/index.html

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 40 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

If Zambrano can't be signed.......
then he needs to be traded, to let him get to FA without getting anything for him besides a draft pick would be stupid.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on May 8, 2007 11:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What if keeping him...
....resulted in a deep post season push. Would his leaving gratis be worth it then?
Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Z. He doesn't need an exclamtion point. He is one.

by PopeFlick on May 8, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if
as I believe will be the case, the Cubs are serious contenders for a playoff spot on July 31?

by NO100 on May 8, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we are in it on July 31....
then there is no way we can trade him, and we'll just have to risk it.  If the Cubs are really pushing for a division title or a wild card slot, what is going to need an upgrade is the bullpen.  As someone said earlier, as much as I would hate to see him go, a world championship would be worth it.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on May 8, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yabbut
on July 31, there will be a lot of teams in it.  I wouldn't be surprised that there will only be a few NL teams that aren't.  In addition to the Cubs probably needing Zambrano, there very well may be very little available at the trade deadline.  The last 2 years have been just like that.  

by NO100 on May 8, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said previously
I happen to like the Jerry Reinsdorf philosophy of never extending a pitcher contact beyond 3 years.  Obviously, Carlos Zambrano isn't going to accept those terms.  That being said, maybe it is the best thing to let him go.  There are very few pitchers I'm comfortably dishing out $90 million plus to.  And Zambrano ain't one of them.  
Ah, come on guys... It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. ...

by BlueMike on May 8, 2007 11:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Respectfully disagree...
....26 year old aces don't grow on trees. This guy is the real deal and is an elite pitcher years from 30.

In short - I think you're crazy

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Z. He doesn't need an exclamtion point. He is one.

by PopeFlick on May 8, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not certain he is an ACE
He appears to be a very good pitcher, the class of Colon or Schmidt, Darling, Mussina not a Cy Young pitcher. Sure he has great stuff but his mental game is not there.

Is he worth 5 years, well the only pitchers I knew that were are: Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, Santana, maybe Johnson, Schilling.

I think a keen GM is going trade Zambrano when the Yankees come calling for more in late June or July, take their Hughes and then trade prospects like Marmol and Cedeno to the ChiSox for Buerhle.

More importantly measuring the development of Guzman and Marshall will be a big determining factor although then snaring a top Yankee prospect wouldn't be bad either.

Best Harry moment: 'Hey there's Marla without her shorts on!'

by Ivy Walls on May 8, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Colon
Didn't Shrek win a Cy Young 2 years ago?

Over the last 4 years (2003 - 2006), Carlos has thrown over 200 innings in each season, his highest ERA has been 3.41, highest WHIP was 1.32, and has had a 2 to 1 K/BB ratio.  How many pitchers have done that?  Plus he doesn't turn 26 until June.

by MHef08 on May 8, 2007 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh for god's sake
Oncemore, please name 4 pitchers that have been better than Zambrano over the last 4 years.

I'll even start the list for you

1. Santana

I got nothin.....

Faith Plus One - Contributing Editor -http://www.inaleagueofherown.com

by Faith plus 1 on May 8, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's one more........
Roy Halladay.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on May 8, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Halladay?
Better? Maybe, but he hasn't seen the amount of innings Z has, you could debate it either way I s'pose.
Faith Plus One - Contributing Editor -http://www.inaleagueofherown.com

by Faith plus 1 on May 8, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

12 Hours later....
....you're halfway to 4 if you weak sauce it with Halliday.

Point made. 5 years is a no-brainer.

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Z. He doesn't need an exclamtion point. He is one.

by PopeFlick on May 8, 2007 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the past is done
the contract isnt to pay Zambrano 18 mill or so for 5 years because of what he's done in the past, you're trying to project how good he'll be GOING FORWARD

I love Big Z and he has been one of the best pitchers in the game over the last few years, those who discount his "ace" status are arguing semantics and its trivial, he's our ace and has been so for quite some time

regardless that doesnt mean he WILL BE the ace for the next 5 years and that's the determination you need to make going forward

Do you feel comfortable in saying Big Z is going to be one of the top 10 pitchers in the game over the next 5 years, because thats what he's going to be paid like

As i said in my previous post, the trends are concerning and suggest that he may not be able to repeat his prior success going forward and for that reason the idea of letting him go MUST be entertained

Branch Rickey always was willing to let a guy go a year or two before their prime ended if it meant he didnt have to committ to a contract 3-4 years after his prime ended, the point being its easier to deal with letting a guy go a bit early than it is a bit late

and the reason for this is cost. Letting a guy go to early is a sunk cost that can be replaced, holding onto a guy too long cannot

so when we're talking about Z, you can't focus entirely on the past to determine his worth going forward. How many pitchers in the last 20 years have thrown up 9-10 consecutive years of the production Z just put up? I'm guessing not many

How many have given 3-5 before becoming significantly less effective after signing a massive long term deal due to injury or decreased skill? A LOT

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 9, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deal him
Get 1 starting pitcher and 2 TOP prospects. He'd bring that type of return. It's hard to believe any pitcher is worth $90MM+. The Cubs can learn from other teams' mistakes (Chan Ho, Jason Schmidt, Burnett, etc.).
RICK SCHWAB!

by ExNorthsider on May 8, 2007 12:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hendry

I don't trust him to be able to identify 1 top prospect, let alone 2.

by salparadise23 on May 8, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
Hendry's "talent" is limited to dealing for players on teams in payroll shed mode or handing over blank checks to free agents.  An astute wheeler and dealer he ain't.  

Having said that, talk of dealing Zambrano is moot.  The Cubs will have a new owner next winter.  Hendry is clearly focused on the short-term and could care less about the long-term.  The threat of Zambrano walking via free agency is the least of Hendry's concerns.  He likely won't be around to see the event unfold.    

Ah, come on guys... It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. ...

by BlueMike on May 8, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

c'mon
the Michael Barrett trade and the DLee trade certainly showed an ability to spot talent that had yet been shown on the field

and criticizing him for giving up peanuts to acquire Ramirez, Lofton, and Derek Lee is short-sighted

Hendry's not a great GM, so we should at least give him credit for an area he's done a good job at

trades

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 8, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
Neither Montreal or Oakland wanted to see Michael Barrett behind the plate for them.  And for good reason, because he is the most wretched catcher in baseball.  

Florida was in aggressive payroll reduction mode when they dealt Derrek Lee to the Cubs.  

Ah, come on guys... It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. ...

by BlueMike on May 8, 2007 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you must admit
DLee's production at that time was in no way indicative of the player he's become for the Cubs in 2005 (and, it looks like 2007 as well, after the injury last year).  

However, I am of the belief that there is no way Jim Hendry anticipated that increased production.  It was, for the Cubs, a very happy accident.

by SuperContext on May 8, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to disagree..
Lee had hit 30 + homers in '03 and had as many as 28 homers as early as 2000. The only thing that had to come around was his batting average. That took off as soon as he didn't start a season below the Mendoza line. Lee was widely recognized as a player on the rise when Hendry acquired him.

I also do not trust Hendry in trying to identify good minor league talent that could help build a team. I'd rather see him overpay for Z than trade him for the terrible prospects he's likely to acquire.

Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on May 8, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nomar
He also got Nomar as a throw in when he did the Murton deal.

by MHef08 on May 8, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, that's a funny one
I caught that little zinger.  You're alrighty in my book.  
Ah, come on guys... It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. ...

by BlueMike on May 8, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BlueMike
have a beer on me. I'm scared as wel actually agree on something.
Faith Plus One - Contributing Editor -http://www.inaleagueofherown.com

by Faith plus 1 on May 8, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

simply regarding
Hendry not being that brilliant, let me clarify.
Faith Plus One - Contributing Editor -http://www.inaleagueofherown.com

by Faith plus 1 on May 8, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Recent history would indicate that's not realistic
Other than Milwaukee fleecing Texas last year, can you think of the last impending free agent who fetched that high of a price mid-season?

That nothing reasonable could be gotten for Soriano or Zito last year makes me think the market has changed for mid-season trades.  Free agents are so expensive now that even the big market teams can't afford to let prospects go.

by Wreckard on May 8, 2007 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re
You mean Neifi Izturis for Maddux doesn't count?

by Jed Taylor on May 10, 2007 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...
Zambrano must stay.  He is part of the backbone of this team and removing him would be the equivelant of removing one of our corner infielders.
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on May 8, 2007 12:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Z may not be too sharp on the mound now ..
.. but he is no dope. He knows what the score is. We don't.

First of all, trading Z is not out of the question, but it's NOT going to happen.  There is absolutely NO ONE on the market that is going to come close to his potential who'd want to come to the Cubs. It didn't happen during the offseason except with the now almost providential signings Hendry made of Lilly and Marquis. It ain't going to happen now.

Secondly, the Cubs NEED his arm now more than ever, and face it, once he zeroes in and gets his game on and gets his mechanics straight, he is almost unstoppable. He is the horse the Cubs CANNOT lose. It's regrettable that his maturity still is coming along and that his hot headed ness gets to him, but let's face the facts - he's worked hard to get where he is now. In September, a disciplined, poker faced Z will be more terrifying than Prior or Wood have, sadly, ever been.

And thirdly, Z knows the score about the money involved in a new contract. He's a FA after this is all over, and the Cubs SOMEHOW get to the postseason, he KNOWS the new owners are going to simply have to pay through the nose. Or someone else will. I observed in another thread that the greatest financial bargaining chip the Cubs had was letting Z start. All the month of May he was hideous, but that's his historical Achilles. He'll get better and unhittable, and I can't think of a single MLB team that doesn't know that and will be willing to wine and dine his agent well for him come November.

Having said all that, I hope he's with us next year. It won't be the same without his passion, bat busting and base hits .. including his verbal gaffes and short leg.

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on May 8, 2007 12:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't count out ARod
He is likely to want to move no matter what this season brings.  If he did, and Z is set to leave, why wouldn't the Yanks want to deal? their rotation is crizap!
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on May 8, 2007 12:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Signed or not signed...
... if the team is contending at July 31, and at this time I don't see any reason they wouldn't be, they have to keep him.

If keeping him contributes to winning, I could live with him leaving.

I don't WANT him to leave, nor do I think it is "inevitable". It's just too far in the future to make any judgments on May 8.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 8, 2007 12:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Changed my stance on this one
I was a firm believer that Z has to be extended because all the money spent last off-season without extending the anchor of your staff who happens to be just 26 at the time of FA

and maybe i'll wane again if Carlos goes back to his form, but there's so many red lights flashing right now when it comes to big Z that elicit MAJOR concerns

  1. His arm angle has changed considerably and Baseball Tonight did an excellent job pointing this out a few weeks back. His back issues in the past appear to have limited his ability to drive through to the plate and instead is throwing more across his body now than ever before. He used to come through the ball with his back bending lower, now he's more upright and slinging the ball. His 2 seamer used to have sink to it and good tilt, now its tailing and rising more
  2. This change in mechanics has lead to a change in his ability to generate fly balls, he's become increasingly more dependent on K's and fly balls over the last two years, a major concern for a pitcher pitching in our stadium
  3. he's also lost any semblance of control he used to have, sure he was never a maddux type but Z wasnt a contender for leading the league in walks until the last year or two and his erratic control is leading to more pitches, more wear and tear, and less statistically appealing numbers
  4. this year his K rate has dropped significantly and he's already allowed 9 HR'S, this is terrifying and while yes its early... its a MAJOR concern
I love Z probably as much as anyone and its hard to think of the Cubs without him right now, but I think they have to entertain the idea of moving him at the deadline. Obviously this depends on 2 things: 1) if we're in it and 2) if he's pitching well. If we're in it and he's still pitching like this... well its going to be tough to get something for him and converesly if he's pitching great and we're in it, it's going to be tough to deal him.

I've changed my stance wholeheartedly on this one and its not because of the long-term committment associated with Z as much as the trend in his numbers, increased fly balls and increased BB's with decreased K's is a really really bad trend

now the K's are just a short lived phenomenon but the other two are going over a year now and look to be more than just a short-term trend

I hate to say it because I love Z so much, but I think we might be better off in the long run if we could get something significant in return this year for Z. If his mechanics returned and he became more of the groundball pitcher we saw in the past, I'd feel a lot better about things

I don't want to be fickle about this cause its easy to want to get rid of Big Z when he's pitching like this and I hope things change, but my stance has changed considerably.

I thought this team HAD to have an elite starter to contend with the aging high priced position talent we have eating away at the budget, and i still think that but I'm starting to operate under the belief we may be better off taking a shot on some younger prospects through a trade and hoping they develop quickly

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 8, 2007 12:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You fail to take into account the following...
A. The impending sale of the Cubs to a new owner.

B. The likely short-term nature of Jim Hendry's employment.  

This thing with Zambrano is going to drag out until the point of him filing for free agency.  And Hendry could care less because he needs to win right now.    

Ah, come on guys... It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. ...

by BlueMike on May 8, 2007 1:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Okay
But what if dealing CZambrano actually improved the chance of winning this year?

One example of something similar: Boston trading Nomar during the 2004 season.

Of course, I worry about Hendry's ability to make a good trade. But what I worry most about is Zambrano continuing to suck and losing value to the Cubs this year.

RICK SCHWAB!

by ExNorthsider on May 8, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if Hendry wins.......
he's still likely to be gone next season. The higher ups in the company (Zell) put the kabosh on signing Zambrano, who's to say he won't force Hendry's hand in trading him?
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on May 8, 2007 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the last time
Sam Zell isn't buying the Cubs.  And he's not in control of the Chicago National League Baseball Club right now.  That distinction still rests within the Tribune Tower in the form of John McDonough and the rest of the corporate executive team.  

Jim Hendry is operating in the short term because his job is on the line and both the parent company and ballclub club business unit are being sold.  Nobody is going to approve a new multi million contact under these circumstances.  Therefore, chances are very strong that this thing with Zambrano will drag out until next winter's free agency period.  

Ah, come on guys... It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. ...

by BlueMike on May 8, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hendry's future
We may be stuck with Hendry for another offseason regardless of this year's outcome.  Depending on when teh sales closes and is approved by MLB ownership, I can easily see us stuck with Hendry until new owner's take charge in December / January.  At that point, we would have Hendry's decision-making combined with no budget to carry through the offseason.

by John in DC on May 8, 2007 3:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Further, the way these sorts of deals work, it's entirely possible a new owner might not be in place until after Opening Day 2008. It seems to me it's likely that Hendry & Co. will still be around next offseason.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 8, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
MLB takes their time with new ownership approvals.  It will probably take another 6 months to find out who the new owner is, then another several beyond that for MLB owners to have an approval vote.  

Thing is we are likely staring at a lame duck administration next offseason.  The Cubs had better win in 2007 with the pieces in place, because I doubt very seriously the front office will be able to do much manuevering next winter.  And yes, this likely means Carlos Zambrano hits the free agency market.  

Ah, come on guys... It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. ...

by BlueMike on May 8, 2007 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB owners
Especially since Reinsdorf heads the MLB ownership committe.  I can't imagine the Sox owner worried about ownership chaos across town

by John in DC on May 8, 2007 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon
Start posting about the Cubs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Jake_fox_small
Cubs Should Go After Rich Hill
Chicagocubs1914_small
Last Out to First Pitch – The 2009-10 Offseason IT'S HAPPENING!!!??? Contest
Small
More From the Cubs in Winter Ball
Small
Don't Make the Mistake of Dumping Bradley
Dscn2381_small
Why Other Teams Should Want Milton Bradley

Recent FanPosts

Small
Should we trade him, or should we not?
Chicagocubs1914_small
OT: Big-Ten, Vista-Demolition, Anything-Goes-on-a-Saturday Game Thread
Madduxflag_small
Starlin Castro Vitters etc LIVE Sat night
Helmet_small
Az Fall League Cubs
4167bqf31ml
Five tool player available!
Self-portrait-4_small
This Might Be A Long Shot...
Madduxflag_small
Convention Sold Out
P272649reg_small
OT: Why not name a field after Ernie?
Cubs_sweatrshirt_on_gravestone_small
Vernon Wells - prepping to be a Cub

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Gomez to drink your Brew, Hardy to eat your Twinkie
BP interviews Sam Fuld. Great read!
Who was the best MLB player born on your birthday?
Gary Matthews Jr.
Kerry Wood Says Black Players Got Hate Mail

Recent FanShots

OT, sexist and imho funny
J.J Putz's Option Declined by Mets.
Does Soriano's defense at 2B really cost more runs than in LF?  He makes a lot fewer errors in LF since misplays and mental mistakes aren't figured into the stats, but I have to imagine that his mistakes are more physical at 2B.  Any thoughts?  Is there a statistic on this?
Sosa pays tribute to Michael Jackson?
Harden, Johnson File For Free Agency
Brett Myers released by the Phillies
Mark Teahen to Chicago....White Sox
More On The Dodger Divorce
WrigleyBound on Josh Vitters's "plate discipline"

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

SPONSORS

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges

Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: Cubs Convention 2010
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: General 2009 Ticket Exchange
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: September 29-October 4 Homestand

Managing Editor

Yelloncard_small Al

Editorial Cartoonist

Toonmike_small toonmike

Contributors

Dsc_0139_small holy mackerel

100px-boisehawkscaplogo_small Josh77

Small shawndgoldman