Indefensible
I haven't even read the game thread yet, but I can just imagine what it looks like, over 600 comments after I posted it this morning.
But today's 8-5 loss to the Braves -- one that was, in the proverbial phrase, "not as close as the score indicated", may have at last been a turning point for this troubled franchise.
Or at least, if there is decisive management, it can and will be.
First, I thought of this post title in the early innings when the Cubs' defense was absolutely putrid:
- Ryan Theriot lost the very first ball hit in the game in the sun. Alfonso Soriano sort of loped in from left field; had he run harder, he might have caught it. No error was charged, and three batters later a run scored.
- Matt Murton dropped a catchable fly ball in the fourth inning, that Mark DeRosa had called him off, allowing yet another run to score. Now, that's the outfielder's call, in general -- usually, OF have a better shot at a play than a backpedaling infielder -- but if you do that, you damn well better catch the ball.
- And in the play that likely precipitated the day's big event, the most indefensible thing of all, the fight between Carlos Zambrano and Michael Barrett, Barrett let a catchable pitch from Z get away, and then threw the ball into left field, allowing yet another run to score.
And after that Z and Barrett got into the aforementioned fistfight in the dugout. Through anecdotal evidence, and Lou Piniella's postgame press conference, here's what must have happened:
Z may have said something to Barrett along the lines of, "If Henry Blanco had been catching me, this wouldn't have happened". Now -- that's not a quote, nor do I have any proof of this. But I can imagine some words like that might have inflamed Barrett to that point; we already know Michael has a temper, and he really would have had to be pushed past the breaking point to slug one of his own teammates. Some reports have Piniella, who is 30+ years older than both Barrett and Zambrano, stepping in to help separate them.
After that, both players were removed from the game -- Z was ready to be taken out anyway, after giving up 13 hits and two walks in five innings, and he was removed for pinch hitter Daryle Ward; Barrett was also removed for Koyie Hill (who was recalled when Blanco was placed on the DL with a herniated disk -- a fairly serious injury), although Hill's presence wasn't announced; I didn't realize Hill was in the game until he batted leading off the 7th inning.
Lou said in his postgame news conference that both players were "sent home", and that the club would "deal with it" on Saturday, and further, that there had been more fighting between the two after they had been sent to the clubhouse.
Well, that's not enough. I know much of the brass is in Arizona getting ready for next week's draft, but Jim Hendry's not leaving for Mesa until Monday.
Jim -- if you're reading this, it's time to make a bold move, time to shake things up, time to tell every single player and coach on this ballclub that "business as usual" (and five losses in a row is NOT good business, is it?) will not be tolerated. We discussed this at length in the bleachers today and here was our consensus.
Call up Omar Minaya and tell him Z's available, and make a deal. Now. Today, if possible, tomorrow, if not. Whatever's gotten into Z's head, it is clear that his time with the Cubs has to be up. And I hate saying that, because we all know the sort of talent Z has, and he just turned 26 today (some birthday, huh?), and he might turn in several more great seasons (although with 1/3 of this year gone and a 5.62 ERA, this year may be a lost one already). Minaya loves Z; the Mets could use him, and he's already hinted that he'd like to sign there next year (as opposed to with the Yankees, where he couldn't bat except during interleague games in NL parks), and the Mets can afford him.
What should the Cubs ask for in return? It's very simple, and in fact, I think the Mets would do this deal. Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey. Heilman is someone Hendry has shown interest in before, and Pelfrey is one of their top pitching prospects. Heilman steps into the Cub rotation, and if he fails, Pelfrey -- who is 23 and has made ten major league starts, including six this year -- could step in instead, with Heilman becoming a setup man, something this club sorely needs.
This club is at a crossroads. When I mentioned making a deal like this to Dave, he said, "Not only for prospects, they need a major league pitcher, too", and he's right, because as bad as this club has been, this season is still salvageable. Trading Z would, in theory, leave the Cubs without a #1 starter -- though Z surely hasn't pitched like a #1 all season. That's why you'd have to get someone with significant ML experience (Heilman), who could start (though he has not started a game since 2005, he surely could. And getting Pelfrey would help the club look forward to 2008 and beyond.
This fight has to be the turning point. From here, either the season deteriorates into something that could be worse than 2006, or a bold move has to be made to say, "We're still out there trying," and further, to say that such things simply will not be tolerated.
Do it, Jim. Call Omar. Deal Z. Put him on a plane tonight. The Mets are at home, it only takes two hours to fly there. We could have two new pitchers by tomorrow. Show us you care, show us some fire, show us you mean business about winning.
UPDATE [2007-6-1 20:19:44 by Al]: Not sure how long this is going to last, but here's a pretty good YouTube video clip taken from ESPN:
0 recs |
403 comments
Comments
LEt's go Cubbieees, let's go
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 5:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The pitch that got by Barrett....
by BeerCub on Jun 1, 2007 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you get rid of Zambrano
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Since we'r'e talking deals....
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2007 5:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The video shows
Agree with your assesment on trading Z- should happen immediately. I doubt we'll be any worse off. After that, start on the rest of it- no one should be considered untouchable, including DLee. They need an entirely different attitude and mindset. This was one of thye most embarrassing things I have ever seen out of the Cubs.
by tommy veryzer on Jun 1, 2007 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Get Rid of Zambrano and not Barrett????
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 5:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Right
Then you have the whole Blanco will catch Zambrano exclusively deal, which I'm sure Piniella just didn't pull out of his azz or purely by the numbers.
Then Barrett gietting a "mental" day off and it's obvious he has to go as well.
Remember the days when the Barrett apologists were saying he wasn't a bad Catcher?? Ahhh those were the days. Makes you wonder sometimes what some Cub fans are looking at.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TOTALLY AGREED --
by southerncubbie on Jun 1, 2007 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barrett should be gone
by Rev Gunia on Jun 1, 2007 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explosive Volcanic Dipshit threw first punch ...
Get rid of Barrett, Ok, but could we get someone, ANYONE, who could catch and still hit above Mendoza for a change (ie: not Paul Bako of '04?)
by iowaBear on Jun 1, 2007 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is not the first time teammates have fought.
I agree with Al. Zambrano quit to today, and for that reason, he needs to go. Soon.
by davidalanu on Jun 2, 2007 5:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the fact that it did happen on national TV
by Rev Gunia on Jun 2, 2007 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, E.V.D.S threw the first punch
by Rev Gunia on Jun 2, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al.....
This team is a mess. Something needs to be done NOW.
As for getting value back in any trade of BigZ, he hurt the team badly today. I think Pelfrey is out. If I was Omar, I would offer someone else and make the Cubs like it.
After what transpired today, they have no choice but to like it.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trading Zambrano is a good start, but...
But trading Z by itself will not right this ship. We need a new catcher. Sure, maybe Michael just had a bad week, but these are mistakes a catcher at this level should not be making, and he had made similar mistakes time and time again.
And as good as it was to see Jones finally get a dinger, he's superfluous in an overcrowded outfield made even moreso by the far superior defensively (and, hitting .400 in AAA, it would appear offesively, as well) Felix Pie. Jones: a ball thrown to the cut-off man should not bounce twice.
And Murton is not a right-fielder. Another little-league mistake today by him on a popup. Trade him somewhere that needs a left-fielder.
And can we release Eyre? Every single appearance he hemorrhages base-runners. Five singles and one run in two innings, and believe it or not, his ERA went down a fair amount! Putting him in again and again is not going to work, as it has been made clear. He must go.
by John Q Freejazz on Jun 1, 2007 5:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right in that...
I think Michael Barrett needs some time off to get his head screwed on straight. His defense has been awful. Now, you might be able to live with that if he were contributing with his bat, but he's not.
This would be easier to do if Blanco weren't hurt. But do you really want to start Koyie Hill every day? He's no prospect. Barrett supposedly went to the hospital for stitches; maybe he'll be given the day off tomorrow.
That'd create a Hill/Hill battery, FWIW.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Years and years
You reap what you sow, and there is a boatload of cumulative damage that has come to a head.
by MPH73 on Jun 1, 2007 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the game and......
It doesn't solve the Soriano problem. He's reminding me of Ramirez the past two years... just not really trying.
JMO
by No Southern Belle on Jun 1, 2007 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Pie
by John Q Freejazz on Jun 1, 2007 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on everything except ...
Anyone know what we could even get for Z? That's a risk I don't even think Warren Buffet would jump at.
by iowaBear on Jun 1, 2007 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have concluded that Murton...
by DudeVf11 on Jun 2, 2007 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yuck. any way you slice we're done.
by buckmulligan on Jun 1, 2007 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
trading Z
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
better yet make a blockbuster
call up Pie to start in CF with Murton in RF.
I have a feeling this season is almost going to be over if they cannot come back and win this series, so I think its time to dump Jones and call up Pie
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never......
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I dunno.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you.....
Here is a deal I could see: Heilman, and Lastings Milledge for Big Z.
Milledge has fallen out of favor in NY. No way IMHO do you land Pelfrey. No way does NY want Jones.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do the Cubs want Milledge?
I don't do this deal without Pelfrey. If the Mets want Z badly enough, they do it. Omar's probably going to sign him anyway, so they get four extra months of him. Maybe the Cubs offer to pay part of the $8m remaining this year to sweeten the deal.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thety would.......
Think about it Al, who do the Cubs have in the Minors who you think could play the OF? They have no one!!!!!
As for Pelfrey, I will say this again. The Cubs have no leverage. First, BigZ has sucked this year. Second, he showed his ass today. They have to move him. No way, no how do you get one of the top young pitchers in the game for him.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no leverage?
by Rynot on Jun 1, 2007 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again.....
BigZ has been terrible this year.
BigZ just got in a fight with a teammate DURING a game.
BigZ just quit on his team.
No leverage.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs still have leverage
I however wouldn't just make a knee jerk reaction and trade him tonight just for the sake of trading him.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because CF'ers can play RF.......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Milledge hurt?
Why again would the Cubs want Milledge?
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because there's no better options
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sprained foot.......
As for the off the field trouble, I dunno.
From what I have read, Milledge has fallen out of favor in NY. One ass for another.
If I am Jim Hendry, I do it now.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would the mets do this?
Now maybe a Jones/Z for Pelfry and and "A" ball player, but not two quality players, not happening. Why do you think the Mets are sitting where there at? Omar is smart, Jimbo is not.
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 1, 2007 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greg Maddux Never Quit On Any Team.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 1, 2007 5:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think.......
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
contract year
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen to that
by tommy veryzer on Jun 1, 2007 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z in New York
by WartburgCub on Jun 1, 2007 5:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
who cares?
by nycbirdo on Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just about to say the same thing.
by shop girl on Jun 1, 2007 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing how quickly....
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That can't excuse what he did today-
by tommy veryzer on Jun 1, 2007 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a second....
Reeeeelllaaaaaaxxxxxxxx.
You don't just "trade Z tonight, Jim". My god. If I'm Big Jim, I let it out be known that everyone's available and see who comes knocking first.
by MaTheMeatloaf on Jun 1, 2007 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Z was wrong but when I see it on vid
The fight that I want to see is Lou v. Z or Barrett. I want to see Lou kick some ass. Maybe Dibble will stop by and back him up?
by DudeVf11 on Jun 2, 2007 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'd be one thing...
As it is, it's one problem attacking another. Like Soriano fighting the bullpen. The bullpen fighting Jacque Jones. JJ fighting Izturis. Izturis fighting Hendry. And on and on...
Somebody made an earlier assessment that Barrett didn't have the respect of his teammates. Outside of Z, I disagree. I've heard good things of him as a teammate. As a player, he's got to start producing. He isn't worth much at all this year. A struggling bat coined with a struggling defense does nothing for this team. While I agree that Blanco is superior defensively, he hasn't exactly proven it this year, albeit in a smaller sample.
by thekansasian on Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 5:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly....
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zambrano for Phil Hughes and Chase Wright?
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did Brian Cashman.....
Come on now. No one is going to give up a "top" prospect for BigZ. His numbers to date suck and his behavior today forced the Cubs hand. No one is going to give up the farm for him. They don't have to.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hell they are desperate right now
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do any of you pay attention?
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know...
BUT, if I was the Cubs, I would take him hurt (since it is non pitching) in a heartbeat.
It is a moot point. It will never happen. Cashman is not stupid.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who gives a crap
The only thing this team is good for is giving Cubs fans a reasonable excuse to be alcoholics over the summer.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they think hughes = seaver = clemens.
by nycbirdo on Jun 1, 2007 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if the yanks really want a a chance to win
I would too.
Hell of a starting rotation:
Wang
Mussina,
Clemens
Z
???
That might just save their pen too.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK that's what you want
Athletes from the same team are always fighting. In the end, they shake hands and go back to business. Neither Zambrano nor Barrett have to be traded. Tomorrow cooler heads will prevail and we'll move towards fixing the real problem, the rapid decline of this entire organization.
Let's admit it. Once it was indicated that Zell had bought the Trib and would be selling the Cubs at year end, we've been in free fall. Everyone has a free pass because their employer will be different next year.
If there were pride and leadership on this team, that wouldn't happen. But, regrettably, Hendry has stacked the clubhouse with prima donnas over the years and it's all come to a boil at the first sign of failure.
by tharr on Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Athletes from the same team are always fighting
What WILL happen? I have no idea. But SOMETHING has to be done. It's not time for "cooler heads", because if that happens, then it's the same old, same old.
Time to make a bold move. Period. In fact, the mere fact that you mention, that the club is to be sold, with Hendry likely out of a job -- why would he NOT want to make a bold move? What does he have to lose?
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The time for blod moves are over
It's rebuild time. Get what you can for JJ, Z, Barrett and the firestarters in the pen. With those pieces figure out what the team will look like in 2008.
This team will not finish over .500.
If you think they will you are crazier than Z.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're from chicago
by nycbirdo on Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
100% different
by thekansasian on Jun 1, 2007 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, how?
by nycbirdo on Jun 1, 2007 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huge difference...
Another point: Jordan brought it. Every practice. Every game. As I said in another post, if Z was successful and acting like an ace, then this MIGHT be excusable. But he's playing like shit, so condemning another player rings hollow.
by thekansasian on Jun 1, 2007 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
i realize this isn't perfect because a) it fits under your "if they bring it" exception (bonds and kent were back-to-back mvp's as this was going on, iirc), and b) bonds is a jackass and everyone knows this.
but still - my point is that these are ultra-competitive people who can end up losing their tempers and fighting teammates almost as easily as fighting their opponents.
by nycbirdo on Jun 1, 2007 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
c
by BJ on Jun 1, 2007 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On that...
I'm just saying there's a difference between this immature stunt and a fight that might break out at practice.
And yes, there certainly are other examples of this.
by thekansasian on Jun 1, 2007 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget..
Jackson/Martin....Lilly/Gibbons....Gibbons/Hillenbrand...a couple years back a couple from the Royals got into it (Runelvys Hernandez and catcher John Buck).
It does certainly happen, maybe not "all the time", but there is precedent for this type of behavior.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know Hughes is injured
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably...
Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Jeez.
by MaTheMeatloaf on Jun 1, 2007 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahtletes on the same team
As for Hendry, he's boxed himself in. I'm confidant that every change he makes will be perceived as a mistake he's trying to rectify. From a very selfish standpoint, Jim is hoping that the team will turn itself around and he can show everyone at the end of the season how successful his plan was. It won't happen but Hendry feels compelled to defend himself.
Tell me when Eyre if DFA'd ot Junes is moved for a piece of stale bread. Until then don't expect Jim to see the light.
by tharr on Jun 1, 2007 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming
by Rev Gunia on Jun 1, 2007 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granted
by tharr on Jun 2, 2007 3:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unusual but not unusual
by tharr on Jun 2, 2007 6:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your right
Let's be honest here, you have two guys, who both have a history of doing stupid things. Put that together with how bad the team and both of them have been laying, and you have a volital situation. This fight, is really the culmination of Hendry's handy work over the years, as this club should not be in the position it is, with such a mismatch of talent on the roster.
The organization has been broken for years, and if you haven't noticed, there is a reason it continues to go downhill. The fun is just beginning, because the whole thing will require 2-3 years of handy work by a qualified GM, to clean up.
Say hello to 100+ years of futility.
by MPH73 on Jun 2, 2007 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand why it happened
--Zambrano and Barrett are both fierce competetors
--CZ and MB (along with everyone else wearing the blue pinstripes) are frustrated beyond belief.
--The frequent mental mistakes are especially infuriating.
--Part of the baseball culture is yelling, screaming, shoving, slapping, punching, and spitting on one another regularly.
But to minimize the fact that this happened in public in front of television cameras is minimizing something that is a huge consideration in deciding what should be done. Should the Cubs smile and pretend it didn't happen, they're essentially condoning public brawling among teammates. They're sending the strong message that "It's OK to punch a fellow Cub in the face if you're feeling bad. That's acceptable on this ball club."
It can't be that way. More than the season is at stake. Whatever the management's reaction, they're setting a precedent for seasons to come. Will fighting be condoned or won't it? Is it OK to punch teammates because you're a good player and they're a bad player or isn't it. We can't let this slide.
by Rev Gunia on Jun 2, 2007 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously it can't be condoned
by tharr on Jun 2, 2007 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al please admit this season is over
Wait to get a few good offers, try to get a biding war between the Mets, Yanks, Braves, St. Louis, White Sox, Twins, Tigers, Brewers, etc...
Then pull the trigger.
Getting rid of Z will not fix what is wrong with this team. And even if he is a club house cancer it is better to keep him around longer so that we can get more in return.
We are losing (for the third time in five years) a pitcher that could have taken the mantle of "The Best Pitcher in Baseball." At least this time lets get something for the guy.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is going to give anyone
by eswan9 on Jun 1, 2007 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it important for Al
by tommy veryzer on Jun 1, 2007 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not really important
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
by tommy veryzer on Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
We are 8 games under .500. We have no pen, outfield defense, a back up catcher or an offense that can get high pressure hits. In short: this team is a failure.
So who cares if Z blows up this clubhouse for the next month. He will be gone.
If we trade him today we will get 2 B-level prospects.
If we wait until the end of this month we will get 2 B-level prospects and an A-level prospect or a very very good MLBer.
The season is over for his sad team. I say we wait.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely agree with the kenny lofton trade
i say trade zambrano not to the mets, but look to any team that would cough up another bat at shortstop. look to alex rodriguez. after the yanks get their clocks cleaned tonight by the red sox, and are 13, 14 back, trade z to the yanks. they DESPERATELY need starting pitching. besides the bullpen underperforming, (i have a feeling they'll come around), the other biggest concerns to me is the leadoff spot ahead of our boppers, and the shortstop offensive production. check out MY idea of our 2007 team:
1)kenny lofton
2)alex rodriguez
3)derek lee
4)aramis ramirez
5)alfonzo soriano
6)cliff floyd
7)michael barret
8)mark derosa
9)pitcher
trade jones and barett for a defensive catcher as well as a starter. if we pulled off these three trades IMMEDIATELY, (or comparable players to the ones i mentioned, the season would be rocking and rolling. at the deadline, we could aquire that ACE STARTER via trade, or we could let the youngsters have at it. they had to be groomed for something last year. AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, THIS FUCKING TEAM SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!
sorry Al, i cursed but i am highly frustrated.
by revelations on Jun 1, 2007 5:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was bashed for
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jesus christ people
arod is one of the best hitters in baseball and thanks to his april is finally a True Yankee. i think they're going to do what they can to keep him there in the offseason. they're certainly not trading him for a pitcher who:
- has a 5+ era
- is a free agent in the offseason
- is an emotional and pitching-mechanics disaster
- is being desperately shopped by his team after he instigated a fight with his catcher in the dugout on national television.
by nycbirdo on Jun 1, 2007 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank YOU!!!!!!!
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Z for...
by DudeVf11 on Jun 2, 2007 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HELL YEAH!!!
by MaTheMeatloaf on Jun 1, 2007 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z, Isturass and (Jones/Murton)....
A-rod is the ultimate Cub....wherever he goes....losing seems to follow.......perhaps then the planets will allign, goats will be sacrificed and A-rod will be MVP and Z cy young winner....and Cub/Yankee world series...
by kcjones on Jun 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction
by revelations on Jun 1, 2007 5:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al,
by eswan9 on Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy Mother of God
Al, at root, we are Cubs fans because we love the game of baseball and the City of Chicago, but what we really want is to see the teams that we root for to demonstrate the characteristics that we strive for in our personal and professional lives.
One of those characteristics, obviously, is success -- in this case, a team that wins championships.
Absent championship-level success, however, there are many other important factors that I want to see that have been noticeably absent from the 2007 Cubs and, I would say, have been missing from this franchise for some time -- honesty (at least from management which has consistently lied about and obscured the truth about the health and development of players), pride in their job, mastering the basics and doing little things right, paying attention to detail, and having some fun along the way.
As a team, the 2007 Cubs have consistently failed to evince the skill level or the "heart," for lack of a better word, of a championship-level team. Now they cannot even act like professionals.
Yes, this is a bit of an emotional response, but, rooting for this team is turning into an embarrassment.
by Nuke LaLoosh on Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Murton Sucks, Barrett Sucks, Izturis Sucks,
Michael Barrett needs to be traded more than Zambrano does. Trade him along with Izturis, and Murton. Get good young pitching talent, eith RP or SP. Give the minor league kids some AB and play at both C and OF and maybe we can steal some games as the summer goes on. DLee and Ramrod, along with Zambrano all clearly want to win.
I will be ashamed if we let Z go. Pile it on me if you want, but the fire and stuff the kid has, with a defense playing behind him is more than we will ever get in value in a trade. If we get rid of Barrett, we'll get an improvement behind the plate, at the plate, as he has become difficult to watch, and on the bases.
Sweet Lou seems to clearly be taking Z's side on the fight, and from reports, Barrett got his ass kicked in the dugout, and hopefully will get his ass kicked out of town, soon, along with the other two bums mentioned above.
by jmw676 on Jun 1, 2007 5:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Z went over the line
And Z hasn't been lighting it up this year, and he flat quit today. Not needed- get him out of here, and don't stop there. Everybody on that team should be considered, from Lee on down.
by tommy veryzer on Jun 1, 2007 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fire
Since they are both at fault, I want to keep the better of the two, and that is clearly Z.
by jmw676 on Jun 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta agree...
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta agree...
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
barrett has trade value.
michael barrett to the right team could get you something. but that might also be a better thing to wait on. in three weeks, varitek could be on the dl or something.
by nycbirdo on Jun 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
I just threw izturis in there, because we might as well have one of our pitchers in the "hole" in the lineup that comes up every time he steps in the box.
by jmw676 on Jun 1, 2007 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only problem with your trades
by LT on Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would
Watching and rewatching the scenes from the dugout when a guy in a red shirt comes out to get the trainer Lee runs down the steps to the clubhouse. He and Michael are good friends so I'm sure he wanted to see how Barrett was. Also Henry is the one who drove Michael away.
by sue369 on Jun 1, 2007 5:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
do you guys really think
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So This is What We Get With Pinella....
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 5:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It appears all the booze....
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kinda like this ....
by CubsBall2202 on Jun 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
I have one question for you.
How would you react to this f-ing circus call the Chicago Cubs?
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be swinging like Zambo!
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Marlins...
by kcjones on Jun 1, 2007 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce Bochy took
Seems to be doing OK with a 'average' SF team.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 1, 2007 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get rid of Z, get rid of barret, get rid of murton
by CubsBall2202 on Jun 1, 2007 6:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
al
also, jones+ barret, for a defensive catcher on a team that is rebuilding (doesn't have to be an outstanding hitter), and a starting pitcher or reliever?
by revelations on Jun 1, 2007 6:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This morning did you
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cocoa Puffs
Apparently Cocoa Puffs is slang for sprinkling Cocaine on top of the gonja in a pipe and taking a hit off it. I got a kick out of that.
Now you know.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lofton is a rent a player
for him. If you want to trade Murton you have to get something
with SOME long term value ( more than this season).
by jessica on Jun 1, 2007 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lofton
by NO100 on Jun 1, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are joking right?
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2007 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I'm not kidding
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Pagan is the answer. I am saying that Lofton isn't and without giving up anyone you can get the same production from a guy currently on the Cubs roster.
by NO100 on Jun 1, 2007 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll let this go..
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2007 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might as well......
It's time to trade Jacque Jones. Maybe the Braves would take him -- you don't really believe Willie Harris is going to hit .390 all year, do you? Jones would be a decent LF for the Braves with the rest of that lineup.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it was only a few hours ago
by rlpete on Jun 1, 2007 6:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So many flyouts -- no LINE DRIVES
Now, I haven't done any statistical analysis on this, but especially today it seemed to me the got under so many balls that could have been line drives and made them popouts.
And of course the few line drives they did hit were caught by a diving Francoeur...
Has anyone else noticed this?
by cubbieblue on Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
like this every damn year
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Talk...
One side note:
While I agree Barrett has sucked, it sure hasn't hurt Lilly, Marquis, and even Hill this year. If Z can't pitch to Barrett, that's his damn problem. Starting pitching has been a strength for the Cubs this year, and I think many people forget that when they blast Barrett as a catcher (as far as intangibles and calling the game).
by thekansasian on Jun 1, 2007 6:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Z's start of the year predictions:
Cubs would win the World Series.
The reality:
He will end up in another uniform.
The Cubs will try not to lose 100 games this year.
Wow Z...You suck!
Thank god he wasn't signed to a long term contract.
Now if we can figure out how to get ride of Lilly, Marquis, Sori, D Ward, JJ, Izzy, The Bull Pen, etc...
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
oh, come on
Yeah, what's happening is ridiculous. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
by elgato on Jun 1, 2007 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr D,
Remember, 136 million dollars doesn't make you a miracle worker. It just means the market thinks that's what you should be paid. It's not reflective of one's overall talent.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 1, 2007 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Z
I have bit my tongue regarding Hendry, but he has got to go. He has put together a team with NO LEADERSHIP - a team of parts that don't fit together as a whole.
For the time being, I don't think that pitching is te problem so the rest of my comments will be directed towards the hitters.
The way I see it, the Cubs have 4 guys that should be built around: Ramirez, Lee, Soriano, and Pie. In the OF, the Cubs need a RF. Murton, Jones, Barrett have to go.
by NO100 on Jun 1, 2007 6:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fresh start...
D. Lee
A. Ramirez
Trade or demote:
Everyone else
by ronsanto10 on Jun 1, 2007 6:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I forgot.....
R. Theriot
by ronsanto10 on Jun 1, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Rich Hill and Marshall, too
Guzman and Marol look like they might not totally suck forever.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
by Kornchex on Jun 1, 2007 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See my earlier post
It's a big trap to fall into. You just have to play the game that earned you the contract -- again, that's whatever the market deems you should be paid. Sometimes the big cash leads to a big downfall, until the player wakes up and realizes he just needs to play to his ability, not to the contract.
It's easy to do 40-40-40 in the lower expectations of RFK Stadium, in front of 22K per game. Much harder to achieve in the maelstrom that is Chicago Cubs baseball.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 1, 2007 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes Yes
by bloopsingle on Jun 1, 2007 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great idea
and a few bench players. That is no problem at all.
Could we maybe be rational here? We are not going to get A-Rod
for Z and Jones and we are not signing 5 SP or bringing them up from Iowa.
We have 4 more months to play and most of the players are staying put. There is a HUGE moral problem here and I don't care if Lou tries to take down Z ala Rob Dibble , he needs to do
SOMETHING. ( normally I am not in favor of these things)
Before you trade Z or Barrett for some used rakes ( all you get
when you are desperate) I would fine and suspend both of them
For the MOMENT this is better lesson than trading Z to the Mets
( wow that is punishment, going from the Cubs to the Mets right now)
by jessica on Jun 1, 2007 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AL!!!!!!!!!
"Is the Cubs Season Over?"
Yes:
Definitely Yes:
Maybe Yes:"
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you're so convinced the season is over...
Then you don't need to take a poll.
Good lord.
by yahoodi on Jun 1, 2007 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barrett
Barret should go. His attitude is all wrong and defense stinks. The Cubs should get Pudge Rodriguez. Hey didn't he say he wouln't mind going to the Cubs before signing with Detroit?
by ronsanto10 on Jun 1, 2007 6:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Barrett never sucker punched AJ
by cubswin on Jun 1, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The very definition of a sucker punch by a punk...
by DrCrawdad on Jun 1, 2007 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ did provoke
by sue369 on Jun 1, 2007 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right about one thing...
MLB did not see the AJ/Barrett thing you're way either. Barrett was suspended. AJ got a fine for engaging the crowd.
How many people will you allow Barrett to engage in fights with under the dodge of being provoked?
AJ is a juvenile jackass but a good catcher, unlike Barrett who is a punk and a lousy catcher.
by DrCrawdad on Jun 1, 2007 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barrett's fellow Trib employees call it a...
- "the White Sox catcher he sucker punched last May." - Phil Rogers, 6/2/07
- "Barrett sucker-punched Pierzynski last year." - Mark Gonzales, 6/2/07
by DrCrawdad on Jun 2, 2007 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sun-Times too...
by DrCrawdad on Jun 2, 2007 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you really AJ?
by DudeVf11 on Jun 2, 2007 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tomorrow, cooler heads will prevail but
Barrett will no longer catch for Zambrano.
Until Blanco returns, Hill will remain on the roster.
Teammates will take sides, hopefully not along racial lines, but it could happen that way.
Team chemistry will get worse and additional losses will pile up.
There will be no decisive management action on any player and Zambrano nor Barrett will be traded, at least prior to the season trade deadline.
And Piniella will continue to muddle along, apparently without the strong clubhouse leadership he was known for before arriving at Clark & Addison.
by JFCubFan on Jun 1, 2007 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes you're right...cooler heads will prevail
I actually am not embarrassed or disgusted this happened. Speaking from experience and I'm sure I'm the only one here who has played organized sports, but I've gotten into it with other teammates a couple times actually. It happens, especially when you're a competitor. One time it actually sparked our team and me and the player involved in the altercation became good friends and had more respect for eachother. The other time, well it really wasn't a good thing and no good came out of it.
I don't see how this incident could do anything but bring the team closer. It already was going into a downward spiral as it is.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How lucky we are
by tharr on Jun 1, 2007 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no shit
by BJ on Jun 1, 2007 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Is what I meant to say was to the effect that I'm sure I'm not the only one here who while playing organized competitve sports, has gotten into a physical altercation with a teammate.
It's not that uncommon of a thing and especially at the ML level, where players are ultra competitve and carry gigantic egos. Is what's uncommon about it is it happened in the dugout and not the clubhouse.
by lemon20pie on Jun 2, 2007 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A day without your input
by tharr on Jun 2, 2007 3:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Played team sports...
by DudeVf11 on Jun 2, 2007 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, thanks a lot A-Hole!!!
by lemon20pie on Jun 2, 2007 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone notice how many hits off Z.....
Came with two strikes. That's what was so alarming for me. Usually he finishes them off. Nowthey're going the other way. That ain't good.
by yahoodi on Jun 1, 2007 6:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Des"Barrett"ly Trading Z - to White Sox
Phone call to Kenny W. makes sense too, and Z might enjoy playing for Ozzie! Would ChiSox be interested in resigning Z at year's end? Probably shakey at best; but they could offer longterm now, contingent on 2007 performance criteria...
New players would be in place ASAP. Too bad Z dislikes Barrett; otherwise could make a package deal, and get Josh Paul back. What a circus that would be to have Z, Barrett, and AJ in the same battery...brings a real ringing sound to the word "Battery"!
by hellfreezesoverwaittillnextyear on Jun 1, 2007 6:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Josh Paul?
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously I BCB
So get a ChiSox catcher besides AJ!
Maybe another trade to unload Barrett too!
After this incident, I really have to view an urgent need for change now!
Or maybe Lou is quite the magician and can bring this all to a positive, galvanizing incident. Not really sure how deeply this incident and fractures truly exist-purely speculative.
A major trade for the right players now seems to make sense, if possible. Remains to be seen how creative and persuasive Jim Hendry can be with all of this turmoil and pressure to succeed now.
Good luck Jim, Lou, and Mr. Crane Kenney; also John McD. for your ability to make good on a WS promise!
by hellfreezesoverwaittillnextyear on Jun 1, 2007 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another option to consider
Imagine how many more opportunities for charging the mound and starting fights would exist!
This might even qualify for establishing the long-sought after "Cubbie Swagger" that Lou is seeking!
by hellfreezesoverwaittillnextyear on Jun 1, 2007 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he could pull the occasional Doug Dascenzo
by John Q Freejazz on Jun 1, 2007 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad move
by Tim Dierkes on Jun 1, 2007 6:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, it wouldn't.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's sell low buy high
You're the player/money manager.
In this climate where Pitching is at a premium and there are many buyers with very few great pitchers on the market you wouldn't sell?
The Mariners Traded Randy Johnson for three great young players and those three players helped rebuild that team.
If the Cubs can get out of the "Win Now" mindset they have a great chance to get really, really good in 2 years.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Win Now" mindset
by SackMan on Jun 1, 2007 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Mr.Durden....
BigZ is not a great pitcher! He is 5-5 with a 5.50 ERA!
NO GM will give up a ton of value for these #s.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why
by Maddog on Jun 1, 2007 6:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because...
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al I like this deal
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minaya loved
The Cubs will get less than what the Royals got when they traded Beltran to the Astros. Maybe we can turn around and trade one of the guys like the Royals did (Dotel for Teahen and Mike Wood), but that's probably not likely because I don't see any team sending the CUbs anything of value for Zambrano.
by Maddog on Jun 1, 2007 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the roster rules...
by kcjones on Jun 1, 2007 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
Prospects are just that: they are talented players with the prospect of becoming good major league players. Zambrano has twice received the 5th most votes for NL Cy Young ('04 and '06). He has proved that he can pitch in the bigs.
Many teams would give up an A- prospect for four months of him. He could be a difference-maker on a staff (probably should be a #2 behind a stud due to his head issues). It really boils down to whether your team has most of the pieces for a championship run and needs one more before several of those pieces vanish (the Yankees fit this mold, not so much with the Mets...but the Angels could be players, I would think).
If he's actually hurt...all bets are off.
by jcub on Jun 2, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re
Visit The Digital Gazette
by Jed Taylor on Jun 1, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry might be able to get Milledge.......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
by Maddog on Jun 1, 2007 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know that's not true......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right...
by Maddog on Jun 1, 2007 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's wait to see how Miiledge recovers
by rlpete on Jun 1, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Beltran
by Maddog on Jun 1, 2007 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
If they can manage a grade A prospect then that's pretty good. To think the Cubs will get a big haul is wishful thinking.
A Zambrano for Heilman/Pelfrey deal would be a good deal.
As for Milledge, he's on the DL with ankle/foot injuries. Not good for an OF'er. No thanks.
by rlpete on Jun 1, 2007 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, keep Z, but
by CubFaninCA on Jun 1, 2007 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So who else besides the Mets..
It would be irresponsible for Hendry to deal excusively with the Mets; veteran pitching is always in demand for any team serious about a playoff push. I worry that Hendry will try to get "win now" talent to save his job, only to have another one of his trades not work out and the Cubs be stuck in a deeper hole.
by Will23 on Jun 1, 2007 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Angels
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would upgrade their team by getting Z?
NL West:
LA
SanFran
Arizona (Good Fit)
NL Central:
Huston
ST. Louis (GREAT FIT)
NL East:
NY Mets (GREAT FIT)
Atlanta (Good Fit)
Marlins
Philly (GREAT FIT)
AL West:
Seattle (Good Fit)
AL Central:
White Sox (GREAT FIT)
Minnesota (Good Fit)
Tigers (Good Fit)
Cleveland
AL EAST
Baltimore
NY Yanks (GREAT FIT)
Boston (Just to fuck with the Yanks)
So there you go 17 teams that would benefit from having Z on their team. 5 of which would be great fits for a team.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The team on your list..
The DBacks btw are quietly putting together a very fine season (10 games over) and are a team to be reckoned with for a long time now. Much better future than the Brewers.
Up on the Mets 2-0 btw.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding?
LA is NOT looking for starting pitching and
neither are the D'backs. LA wants to TRADE SP for a BAT
Giants not likely they already have the most overpiced SP
Houston & STL
right you are going to trade in the division and what
do you get from either Lidge or Looper?
Mets Ok but what would they give up
Atlanta they could use him and I would pay money to see
Cox deal with him but they don't take on salary
Phillies they need RP not SP
Marlins - I assume that was a joke
AL
Yankees- not much they would give
Baltimore well the home of all ex Cubs but again I don't see it
Boston- Theo ain't stupid unless we are giving him away
White Sox-I don't see them going for rent a pitcher when
they are probably going to trade one of their guys goint to FA
MN- NEVER they can't even afford to keep Santana
Cleveland-too cheap
TIgers-not insane but what to give
Seattle -like they need a rent a starter
Guys Z's value is alas A. at the deadline. B if he can actually
string together a decent start or two. He is basically a rent a player to any team and right now the market for rent a players
is not good.
No use proposing deals no team is going to go for. All the big
deals when you give up stud for good kids happen in the off season or at deadline. Someone find me one from at or before
first week of June
Fasten your seat belts it is going to be a bumby ride
by jessica on Jun 1, 2007 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else has....
Trade Z and (Jones/Murton) for a rent-a-player outfielder/staring pitcher...perhaps a win/win as the change of scenery does all of the players involved "good".....
SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE
What other teams are underachieving now???
by kcjones on Jun 1, 2007 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
by jcub on Jun 2, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be very surprised if there is any
Besides the team just has too many holes to fill to be competitive, even in the weak NL Central. Jones, Z, DeRosa, Barrett, Murton, Eyre, and Ohman all need to go...and that's just not going to happen.
I hate to say it, but what REALLY needs to be done is trade Derrek Lee and Aramis to different teams, each for a ton of prospects. There will only be a small drop in attendance...people are going to come to Wrigley regardless of the product on the field. This way expenses are minimized to make the sale more appealing, and the minors would finally be infused with an abundance of young talent. Its the best way to a brighter future.
(Note I would say trade Soriano too, but no one would want that ridiculous contract he has)
by Neifi Puppy on Jun 1, 2007 6:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
God How Sad is This?
This organization blows goat balls.
by MrDurden on Jun 1, 2007 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Today I was embarrassed to be a Cubs fan
by ak123 on Jun 1, 2007 7:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're just NOW embarrassed to be a Cubs fan?
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of wind today,
How's that new Tommie Harris jersey you bought a couple months ago?
by NittanyCub on Jun 1, 2007 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saying you're embarrassed with the Cubs..
How can you not be embarrassed about the Cubs? Are you saying that you're proud of the Cubs? How in the world can anyone be proud of the Cubs? I sure the fk hope not, because if you are, you're gigantic Dewwwwshh bag.
Are we embarrassed of the Cubs? Yes. Do we still live and die with this team? Yes. Saying you're embarrassed with a team, certainly does not equate into being a "fair weathered fan".
As far as this incident goes, I'm not embarrassed about it. It was actually nice to see some, any emotion out of this team, which I didn't think was possible. I personally think after both sides are mended, this could be a blessing in disguise. I really do. Does that mean I condone fighting? No. It couldn't get any worse,that's for sure.
by lemon20pie on Jun 2, 2007 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey thanks for your input man
by NittanyCub on Jun 2, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey phuck you pal
by lemon20pie on Jun 2, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
by NittanyCub on Jun 2, 2007 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
deals
But I'm not quite as down on Barrett and Z for fighting as everyone else is. Teammates fight sometimes. Especially competitive hot-headed teammates, who are often the best ones to have.
by BJ on Jun 1, 2007 7:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we deal Z...
Jones
Murton
Floyd
DeRosa
Ward
Eyre
Howry
Izuseless
Any one of them... or even two of them need to be included.
In return, I feel the Cubs MUST recieve the top rated SS prospect in the league, ready to make the leap to the majors NOW, and whatever else is necessary to complete the deal.
by SackMan on Jun 1, 2007 7:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Re
This situation is exactly where management shows its true colors. If Z stays, it says his behavior is acceptable, and it's the rare organization that can tolerate his inexcusable immaturity, especially since it happens over and over, and be successful. Talent's nice, but the whole Big Z show has run its course and needs to come to an end.
This isn't to say that Barrett is without fault. It is to say that in the short term, the Cubs need Barrett more than they need a selfish hothead like Zambrano for the simple reason there's no one else to catch, especially now that Blanco's out for awhile.
If I'm the GM, I fine and suspend both Zambrano and Barrett, get what I can for Z in a bidding war, and start cutting away the deadwood like JJones and Eyre. The team can't be remade overnite, but a strong, bold move that speaks to behavior and limits needs to be made right away.
Unfortunately, Jim Hendry is the GM, so what I expect to happen is that Z remains on the team and continues to act like an ass, the team divides over to who to blame for all the poor playing, and the season slowly spirals down in a death spin that makes last year look reasonable.
Visit The Digital Gazette
by Jed Taylor on Jun 1, 2007 7:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Loud, sustained applause!
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Enough not going to dump anyone yet
You don't go from a 96 loss organization to a winning team in one year...2 months...if Cubs can get back to .500 now it will be a major accomplishment. Let's be realistic.
They were still counting on Wood/Prior paying them combined $5 M or something and getting 0...how much longer this goes on, who knows, but it's been a horrible 4 years now since '03 success.
The worse they finish, the higher they draft and a chance to truly rebuild what has been a depleted farm system....I don't see much there now after Pie, Colvin (2-3 yrs) and maybe E-Patt...at least trading some established major leaguers (NYY need a DH now with Giambi down) will yield prospects.
The fight and Pinella's explosion at least are making things VERY interesting on the North side.
by writerinwrigley on Jun 1, 2007 7:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No leverage????
13-11 3.11 168 K's
16-8 2.75 188 K's
14-6 3.26 202 K's
16-7 3.41 210 K's
You DO NOT deal a talent like Zambrano and ask for less than market value when he is struggling. If you are determined to deal him you deal him based on what he has done and what he's capable of doing. You DO NOT knee-jerk your way in to giving him up for a bag of batting practice balls. Teams don't improve by giving up guys like Carlos Fucking Zambrano for crap.
God I wish I was a major league GM and the knee-jerkers on this board were GM's of other teams. I'd clean out their organization everytime they had a bit of controversy and I'd laugh at them all the way to the playoffs every year while they had to fight to stay out of last place.
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 7:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ditto.
by MaTheMeatloaf on Jun 1, 2007 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree you have to get value back
by rlpete on Jun 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z is far from being one of the 10
- Santana
- Peavy
- Webb
- Oswalt
- Halladay
- Sheets
- Lackey
- Hamels
- Sabathia
- Felix Hernandez
- Penny
by Neifi Puppy on Jun 1, 2007 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you think
Please check this link before making anymore lists.
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are only.....
Please don't tell me you look at the career #s when making this deal.
You would look at this year and see that he is 5-5 with a 5.50 ERA and that his mechanics are off.
I guess I am just letting my emotions overide my logic;) LMAO!
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
by pageian on Jun 2, 2007 6:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious.......
Good God man! Pull your head out from your ass. It is too early in the AM for such stupidity. .
by timeforachange on Jun 2, 2007 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry
Z, Barrett, JJ, and Eyre need to be removed from the team now, and if the Cubs don't get much in return, well, tough. Hendry made his bed. To keep them on the team will only make things worse.
Time to man up, Jim Hendry.
by Matt Allison on Jun 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My apologies to Dusty
by jimhickman on Jun 1, 2007 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In fairness to Dusty
Dusty came right in and PULLED Z OUT. No questions asked.
I gather the Barrett/Z stuff was all off field but still Lou should
have him escorted out if neccessary.
by jessica on Jun 1, 2007 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zambrano
by ronsanto10 on Jun 1, 2007 7:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the problem
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I would just like to see the team's composition changed and moving either or both Z/Barrett, both who I think have contract issues coming up, seems intelligent, especially since this team looks like it's going nowhere fast.
by cubby23 on Jun 1, 2007 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zambrano
Besides you have to consider the fact that because of his actions today, Z's trade value probabley diminished somewhat. Who would want a jerk disrupting the clubhouse after evey bad outing? I'll take a 40+ Greg Maddux over Z anyday!
by ronsanto10 on Jun 1, 2007 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Except for maybe the Cubs........ sigh........
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z
by ronsanto10 on Jun 1, 2007 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good trade is...
Besides....thats the most life we've seen out of this listless team since ... they approached .500
by kcjones on Jun 1, 2007 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
by MPH73 on Jun 1, 2007 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best post-game comments ever! EVER!
- Lou P 06/01/07
by SackMan on Jun 1, 2007 7:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Best post-game comments ever! EVER!
by deadcatbounce on Jun 1, 2007 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If nothing is done, it needs to be addressed...
Normally, I'm not a proponent of anyone losing their job, but this is unacceptable.
This isn't Lou Pinella's fault, it's not Larry Rothschild (at least I don't think it is), and it's surely not Dusty Baker's fault. This is not 1 yr. worth of bad ball clubs being assembled. Yes, chemistry is a tricky thing and putting together a ballclub isn't easy, but there's gotta be something better than what Cub fans have had to endure.
Al, trade Z, laughs...Trade Barrett, JJones, Cliff Floyd, the list is endless.
Barrett must be moved (impending FA) and will cost too much to keep, but also his defense (and I haven't looked at the numbers) might be on the verge of challenging the worst in NL history. This also isn't the first time he's blown up, it's too bad his temper doesn't translate into good defense or he'd be an all-star.
Zambrano should be moved because he'd potentially bring a lot, and well maybe a shakeup might help the club long-term, if not this year. Forget Omar in NY, he won't overpay for Z like people think, and we won't get Wright or Reyes back so to me it just isn't worth moving him to the Mets. Instead, there are plenty of other teams in need of a pitcher with Z's credentials. Go seek them out and see who the highest bidder is.
by cubby23 on Jun 1, 2007 7:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
Sit them both down, tell them we wouldn't get fair value, so go out there and suck it up.
Oh and stop sucking.
by MaTheMeatloaf on Jun 1, 2007 7:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hasn't anyone ever ...
by kcjones on Jun 1, 2007 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian McCann anyone?
by greencubsman on Jun 1, 2007 7:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would they take...
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not after today.......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm..
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'd be nice if they did...
"So don't expect Jarrod Saltalamacchia to be sent to Chicago for Carlos Zambrano (who, coincidentally, will start against the Braves today). Zambrano is scheduled to be a free agent, and the Braves' new world doesn't have space for pricey imports."
by John Q Freejazz on Jun 1, 2007 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reactionary....
by CubFaninCA on Jun 1, 2007 7:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I-Cubs prospects
"Henrdry, wake up, hey wake up, man!"
by drummerdude on Jun 1, 2007 7:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cherry & O'Malley...
Glad to know they both threw well this week.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question of the night.
So what does ESPN lead their shows with tonight? The fight? Or yet another (yawn) Yankee/Red Sox game?
You make the call.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 7:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
RS/Yankers
The baseball world stops once these 2 teams match up with ESPN.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's play "Let's Make A Deal"
It's no secret that Omar Manaya covets Carlos Zambrano, and he'd be front and center if there are any future talks with clubs about the Cubs dealing zambrano.
My review of the Mets' roster leaves me wondering who(m) the Cubs ask for in any potential deal:
Roster
No STARTERS AGE B T HT WT DOB 2007 SALARY
47 Glavine, Tom 41 $7,500,000
26 Hernandez, Orlando 37 $5,000,000
33 Maine, John 26 $391,000
45 Martinez, Pedro (DL) $14,002,234
46 Perez, Oliver 25 $2,325,000
30 Sele, Aaron 36 $1,000,000
29 Sosa, Jorge 30 Not available
32 Williams, Dave (DL) $1,250,000
No BULLPEN AGE B T HT WT DOB 2007 SALARY
25 Feliciano, Pedro 30 $602,000
48 Heilman, Aaron 28 $453,000
59 Mota, Guillermo 33 $1,800,000
28 Padilla, Juan (DL) 30 $384,000
50 Sanchez, Duaner (DL) 27 $850,000
60 Schoeneweis, Scott 33 $3,600,000
35 Smith, Joe 23 $380,000
13 Wagner, Billy 35 $10,500,000
No CATCHERS AGE B T HT WT DOB 2007 SALARY
11 Castro, Ramon A. 31 $850,000
16 Lo Duca, Paul 35 $6,250,000
No INFIELDERS AGE B T HT WT DOB 2007 SALARY
21 Delgado, Carlos 34 $14,500,000
3 Easley, Damion 37 $850,000
23 Franco, Julio 48 $1,150,000
6 Gotay, Ruben 24 Not available
7 Reyes, Jose B. 23 $2,875,000
22 Valentin, Jose (DL) 37 $3,800,000
5 Wright, David 24 $1,250,000
No OUTFIELDERS AGE B T HT WT DOB 2007 SALARY
18 Alou, Moises (DL) 40 $7,500,000
15 Beltran, Carlos 30 $13,571,429
10 Chavez, Endy 29 L $1,725,000
27 Gomez, Carlos 21 R Not available
20 Green, Shawn (DL) 34 $9,500,000
4 Johnson, Ben J. 25 Not available
17 Newhan, David 33 $575,000
No DESIGNATED HITTERS AGE B T HT WT DOB 2007 SALARY
AAA Affiliate: New Orleans Zephyrs (Roster)
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&cid=588&stn=true&sid=t58 8
Disclaimer * Admittedley, I am no expert in putting together "perfect trades" for any MLB team, so please have patience and save the "You'd have to be nuts" responses for some other time. What is everyone's "good deal," should the Cubs be forced to make a move with Z to the Mets? Thanks for responding.
Here's mine
Cubs get:
Jorge Sosa or John Maine
Aaron Heilman
Paul Lo Duca
Mets get:
Zambrano
Barrett
by scottsdalecubs on Jun 1, 2007 7:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lo Duca is...
by cubby23 on Jun 1, 2007 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Lo Duca
by scottsdalecubs on Jun 1, 2007 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Z and Barrett.....
I really don't give two shits right now. This whole thing needs to be blown up, but sadly the dope who put it together is still in charge and on top of that the team is for sale.
What a mess.
And Al, I quit watching ESPN about two years ago. Give it a try, you'll be more satisfied. Watch Comcast instead.
by Peoria Matt on Jun 1, 2007 7:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agree on espn - quit watching last year
by scottsdalecubs on Jun 1, 2007 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sportscenter is trash.
I find CSN's production values amateurish.
by Al on Jun 1, 2007 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really???
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off topic
I ask that those who have never seen really crappy baseball PbP tune in -- you'll see the real Matt Vasgergian, not the watered-down version you saw on Fox last Saturday.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 1, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN
by danimal15 on Jun 1, 2007 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harold Reynolds
by lemon20pie on Jun 2, 2007 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I've said before...
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dump 'em both.
Of course, if Hendry does nothing, that'll give everyone a insight to just how emasculated his position has become ...
by Littlerock Rynofan on Jun 1, 2007 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe
for
Maine
Hielman
Chavez
by scottsdalecubs on Jun 1, 2007 7:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chavez
by pageian on Jun 1, 2007 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes is projected.....
You're obviously confused. Not sure how you're not familiar with Reyes. He's an MVP candidate.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the Cubs already have a CF prospect.
by lemon20pie on Jun 1, 2007 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure it's Carlos Gomes who
by scottsdalecubs on Jun 1, 2007 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Carlos Gomez
Endy Chavez is the Mets defensive outfield wizzard. He is arguably the best defensive outfielder on the Mets, better even than Beltran. His track record as a hitter though, isn't all that impressive.
by rfloh on Jun 2, 2007 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
asdf
by BJ on Jun 1, 2007 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 