Indefensible
I haven't even read the game thread yet, but I can just imagine what it looks like, over 600 comments after I posted it this morning.
But today's 8-5 loss to the Braves -- one that was, in the proverbial phrase, "not as close as the score indicated", may have at last been a turning point for this troubled franchise.
Or at least, if there is decisive management, it can and will be.
First, I thought of this post title in the early innings when the Cubs' defense was absolutely putrid:
- Ryan Theriot lost the very first ball hit in the game in the sun. Alfonso Soriano sort of loped in from left field; had he run harder, he might have caught it. No error was charged, and three batters later a run scored.
- Matt Murton dropped a catchable fly ball in the fourth inning, that Mark DeRosa had called him off, allowing yet another run to score. Now, that's the outfielder's call, in general -- usually, OF have a better shot at a play than a backpedaling infielder -- but if you do that, you damn well better catch the ball.
- And in the play that likely precipitated the day's big event, the most indefensible thing of all, the fight between Carlos Zambrano and Michael Barrett, Barrett let a catchable pitch from Z get away, and then threw the ball into left field, allowing yet another run to score.
And after that Z and Barrett got into the aforementioned fistfight in the dugout. Through anecdotal evidence, and Lou Piniella's postgame press conference, here's what must have happened:
Z may have said something to Barrett along the lines of, "If Henry Blanco had been catching me, this wouldn't have happened". Now -- that's not a quote, nor do I have any proof of this. But I can imagine some words like that might have inflamed Barrett to that point; we already know Michael has a temper, and he really would have had to be pushed past the breaking point to slug one of his own teammates. Some reports have Piniella, who is 30+ years older than both Barrett and Zambrano, stepping in to help separate them.
After that, both players were removed from the game -- Z was ready to be taken out anyway, after giving up 13 hits and two walks in five innings, and he was removed for pinch hitter Daryle Ward; Barrett was also removed for Koyie Hill (who was recalled when Blanco was placed on the DL with a herniated disk -- a fairly serious injury), although Hill's presence wasn't announced; I didn't realize Hill was in the game until he batted leading off the 7th inning.
Lou said in his postgame news conference that both players were "sent home", and that the club would "deal with it" on Saturday, and further, that there had been more fighting between the two after they had been sent to the clubhouse.
Well, that's not enough. I know much of the brass is in Arizona getting ready for next week's draft, but Jim Hendry's not leaving for Mesa until Monday.
Jim -- if you're reading this, it's time to make a bold move, time to shake things up, time to tell every single player and coach on this ballclub that "business as usual" (and five losses in a row is NOT good business, is it?) will not be tolerated. We discussed this at length in the bleachers today and here was our consensus.
Call up Omar Minaya and tell him Z's available, and make a deal. Now. Today, if possible, tomorrow, if not. Whatever's gotten into Z's head, it is clear that his time with the Cubs has to be up. And I hate saying that, because we all know the sort of talent Z has, and he just turned 26 today (some birthday, huh?), and he might turn in several more great seasons (although with 1/3 of this year gone and a 5.62 ERA, this year may be a lost one already). Minaya loves Z; the Mets could use him, and he's already hinted that he'd like to sign there next year (as opposed to with the Yankees, where he couldn't bat except during interleague games in NL parks), and the Mets can afford him.
What should the Cubs ask for in return? It's very simple, and in fact, I think the Mets would do this deal. Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey. Heilman is someone Hendry has shown interest in before, and Pelfrey is one of their top pitching prospects. Heilman steps into the Cub rotation, and if he fails, Pelfrey -- who is 23 and has made ten major league starts, including six this year -- could step in instead, with Heilman becoming a setup man, something this club sorely needs.
This club is at a crossroads. When I mentioned making a deal like this to Dave, he said, "Not only for prospects, they need a major league pitcher, too", and he's right, because as bad as this club has been, this season is still salvageable. Trading Z would, in theory, leave the Cubs without a #1 starter -- though Z surely hasn't pitched like a #1 all season. That's why you'd have to get someone with significant ML experience (Heilman), who could start (though he has not started a game since 2005, he surely could. And getting Pelfrey would help the club look forward to 2008 and beyond.
This fight has to be the turning point. From here, either the season deteriorates into something that could be worse than 2006, or a bold move has to be made to say, "We're still out there trying," and further, to say that such things simply will not be tolerated.
Do it, Jim. Call Omar. Deal Z. Put him on a plane tonight. The Mets are at home, it only takes two hours to fly there. We could have two new pitchers by tomorrow. Show us you care, show us some fire, show us you mean business about winning.
UPDATE [2007-6-1 20:19:44 by Al]: Not sure how long this is going to last, but here's a pretty good YouTube video clip taken from ESPN:
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Comments
The pitch that got by Barrett....
by BeerCub on Jun 1, 2007 5:20 PM CDT 0 recs
If you get rid of Zambrano
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 5:23 PM CDT 0 recs
Since we'r'e talking deals....
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2007 5:26 PM CDT 0 recs
The video shows
Agree with your assesment on trading Z- should happen immediately. I doubt we'll be any worse off. After that, start on the rest of it- no one should be considered untouchable, including DLee. They need an entirely different attitude and mindset. This was one of thye most embarrassing things I have ever seen out of the Cubs.
by tommy veryzer on Jun 1, 2007 5:27 PM CDT 0 recs
Get Rid of Zambrano and not Barrett????
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 5:29 PM CDT 0 recs
Right
Then you have the whole Blanco will catch Zambrano exclusively deal, which I'm sure Piniella just didn't pull out of his azz or purely by the numbers.
Then Barrett gietting a "mental" day off and it's obvious he has to go as well.
Remember the days when the Barrett apologists were saying he wasn't a bad Catcher?? Ahhh those were the days. Makes you wonder sometimes what some Cub fans are looking at.
by lemon20pie on
Jun 1, 2007 5:34 PM CDT
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TOTALLY AGREED --
by southerncubbie on
Jun 1, 2007 9:07 PM CDT
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Barrett should be gone
by Rev Gunia on
Jun 1, 2007 10:56 PM CDT
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Explosive Volcanic Dipshit threw first punch ...
Get rid of Barrett, Ok, but could we get someone, ANYONE, who could catch and still hit above Mendoza for a change (ie: not Paul Bako of '04?)
by iowaBear on
Jun 1, 2007 11:25 PM CDT
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this is not the first time teammates have fought.
I agree with Al. Zambrano quit to today, and for that reason, he needs to go. Soon.
by davidalanu on
Jun 2, 2007 5:47 AM CDT
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the fact that it did happen on national TV
by Rev Gunia on
Jun 2, 2007 10:04 AM CDT
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Yes, E.V.D.S threw the first punch
by Rev Gunia on
Jun 2, 2007 10:00 AM CDT
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Al.....
This team is a mess. Something needs to be done NOW.
As for getting value back in any trade of BigZ, he hurt the team badly today. I think Pelfrey is out. If I was Omar, I would offer someone else and make the Cubs like it.
After what transpired today, they have no choice but to like it.
by timeforachange on Jun 1, 2007 5:30 PM CDT 0 recs
Trading Zambrano is a good start, but...
But trading Z by itself will not right this ship. We need a new catcher. Sure, maybe Michael just had a bad week, but these are mistakes a catcher at this level should not be making, and he had made similar mistakes time and time again.
And as good as it was to see Jones finally get a dinger, he's superfluous in an overcrowded outfield made even moreso by the far superior defensively (and, hitting .400 in AAA, it would appear offesively, as well) Felix Pie. Jones: a ball thrown to the cut-off man should not bounce twice.
And Murton is not a right-fielder. Another little-league mistake today by him on a popup. Trade him somewhere that needs a left-fielder.
And can we release Eyre? Every single appearance he hemorrhages base-runners. Five singles and one run in two innings, and believe it or not, his ERA went down a fair amount! Putting him in again and again is not going to work, as it has been made clear. He must go.
by John Q Freejazz on Jun 1, 2007 5:31 PM CDT 0 recs
You're right in that...
I think Michael Barrett needs some time off to get his head screwed on straight. His defense has been awful. Now, you might be able to live with that if he were contributing with his bat, but he's not.
This would be easier to do if Blanco weren't hurt. But do you really want to start Koyie Hill every day? He's no prospect. Barrett supposedly went to the hospital for stitches; maybe he'll be given the day off tomorrow.
That'd create a Hill/Hill battery, FWIW.
by Al on
Jun 1, 2007 5:37 PM CDT
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Years and years
You reap what you sow, and there is a boatload of cumulative damage that has come to a head.
by MPH73 on
Jun 1, 2007 7:32 PM CDT
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I was at the game and......
It doesn't solve the Soriano problem. He's reminding me of Ramirez the past two years... just not really trying.
JMO
by No Southern Belle on
Jun 1, 2007 6:14 PM CDT
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Agreed on Pie
by John Q Freejazz on
Jun 1, 2007 6:40 PM CDT
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Agreed on everything except ...
Anyone know what we could even get for Z? That's a risk I don't even think Warren Buffet would jump at.
by iowaBear on
Jun 1, 2007 11:28 PM CDT
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I have concluded that Murton...
by DudeVf11 on
Jun 2, 2007 1:08 AM CDT
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yuck. any way you slice we're done.
by buckmulligan on Jun 1, 2007 5:32 PM CDT 0 recs
trading Z
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:32 PM CDT 0 recs
better yet make a blockbuster
call up Pie to start in CF with Murton in RF.
I have a feeling this season is almost going to be over if they cannot come back and win this series, so I think its time to dump Jones and call up Pie
by Chanman25 on
Jun 1, 2007 5:35 PM CDT
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Never......
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 5:38 PM CDT
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Oh, I dunno.
by Al on
Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT
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I agree with you.....
Here is a deal I could see: Heilman, and Lastings Milledge for Big Z.
Milledge has fallen out of favor in NY. No way IMHO do you land Pelfrey. No way does NY want Jones.
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 5:43 PM CDT
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Why do the Cubs want Milledge?
I don't do this deal without Pelfrey. If the Mets want Z badly enough, they do it. Omar's probably going to sign him anyway, so they get four extra months of him. Maybe the Cubs offer to pay part of the $8m remaining this year to sweeten the deal.
by Al on
Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM CDT
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Thety would.......
Think about it Al, who do the Cubs have in the Minors who you think could play the OF? They have no one!!!!!
As for Pelfrey, I will say this again. The Cubs have no leverage. First, BigZ has sucked this year. Second, he showed his ass today. They have to move him. No way, no how do you get one of the top young pitchers in the game for him.
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT
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no leverage?
by Rynot on
Jun 1, 2007 6:00 PM CDT
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Again.....
BigZ has been terrible this year.
BigZ just got in a fight with a teammate DURING a game.
BigZ just quit on his team.
No leverage.
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT
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Cubs still have leverage
I however wouldn't just make a knee jerk reaction and trade him tonight just for the sake of trading him.
by lemon20pie on
Jun 1, 2007 6:15 PM CDT
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Because CF'ers can play RF.......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on
Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT
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Isn't Milledge hurt?
Why again would the Cubs want Milledge?
by lemon20pie on
Jun 1, 2007 5:53 PM CDT
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Because there's no better options
by PriorandAramisfan23 on
Jun 1, 2007 5:54 PM CDT
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Sprained foot.......
As for the off the field trouble, I dunno.
From what I have read, Milledge has fallen out of favor in NY. One ass for another.
If I am Jim Hendry, I do it now.
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 5:56 PM CDT
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why would the mets do this?
Now maybe a Jones/Z for Pelfry and and "A" ball player, but not two quality players, not happening. Why do you think the Mets are sitting where there at? Omar is smart, Jimbo is not.
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on
Jun 1, 2007 10:25 PM CDT
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Greg Maddux Never Quit On Any Team.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 1, 2007 5:34 PM CDT 0 recs
I think.......
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT
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contract year
by Chanman25 on
Jun 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT
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Amen to that
by tommy veryzer on
Jun 1, 2007 5:37 PM CDT
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Z in New York
by WartburgCub on Jun 1, 2007 5:35 PM CDT 0 recs
who cares?
by nycbirdo on
Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT
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I was just about to say the same thing.
by shop girl on
Jun 1, 2007 5:42 PM CDT
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Amazing how quickly....
by razzpunk on Jun 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT 0 recs
That can't excuse what he did today-
by tommy veryzer on
Jun 1, 2007 5:41 PM CDT
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Wait a second....
Reeeeelllaaaaaaxxxxxxxx.
You don't just "trade Z tonight, Jim". My god. If I'm Big Jim, I let it out be known that everyone's available and see who comes knocking first.
by MaTheMeatloaf on
Jun 1, 2007 6:52 PM CDT
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I agree that Z was wrong but when I see it on vid
The fight that I want to see is Lou v. Z or Barrett. I want to see Lou kick some ass. Maybe Dibble will stop by and back him up?
by DudeVf11 on
Jun 2, 2007 1:20 AM CDT
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It'd be one thing...
As it is, it's one problem attacking another. Like Soriano fighting the bullpen. The bullpen fighting Jacque Jones. JJ fighting Izturis. Izturis fighting Hendry. And on and on...
Somebody made an earlier assessment that Barrett didn't have the respect of his teammates. Outside of Z, I disagree. I've heard good things of him as a teammate. As a player, he's got to start producing. He isn't worth much at all this year. A struggling bat coined with a struggling defense does nothing for this team. While I agree that Blanco is superior defensively, he hasn't exactly proven it this year, albeit in a smaller sample.
by thekansasian on
Jun 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT
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OK......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 1, 2007 5:38 PM CDT 0 recs
Exactly....
by razzpunk on
Jun 1, 2007 5:40 PM CDT
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Zambrano for Phil Hughes and Chase Wright?
by Chanman25 on Jun 1, 2007 5:38 PM CDT 0 recs
HAHAHAHA
by nycbirdo on
Jun 1, 2007 5:40 PM CDT
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Did Brian Cashman.....
Come on now. No one is going to give up a "top" prospect for BigZ. His numbers to date suck and his behavior today forced the Cubs hand. No one is going to give up the farm for him. They don't have to.
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 5:40 PM CDT
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hell they are desperate right now
by Chanman25 on
Jun 1, 2007 5:41 PM CDT
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Do any of you pay attention?
by Al on
Jun 1, 2007 5:42 PM CDT
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I know...
BUT, if I was the Cubs, I would take him hurt (since it is non pitching) in a heartbeat.
It is a moot point. It will never happen. Cashman is not stupid.
by timeforachange on
Jun 1, 2007 5:45 PM CDT
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Who gives a crap
The only thing this team is good for is giving Cubs fans a reasonable excuse to be alcoholics over the summer.
by MrDurden on
Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM CDT
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they think hughes = seaver = clemens.
by nycbirdo on
Jun 1, 2007 5:45 PM CDT
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And if the yanks really want a a chance to win
I would too.
Hell of a starting rotation:
Wang
Mussina,
Clemens
Z
???
That might just save their pen too.
by MrDurden on
Jun 1, 2007 5:42 PM CDT
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OK that's what you want
Athletes from the same team are always fighting. In the end, they shake hands and go back to business. Neither Zambrano nor Barrett have to be traded. Tomorrow cooler heads will prevail and we'll move towards fixing the real problem, the rapid decline of this entire organization.
Let's admit it. Once it was indicated that Zell had bought the Trib and would be selling the Cubs at year end, we've been in free fall. Everyone has a free pass because their employer will be different next year.
If there were pride and leadership on this team, that wouldn't happen. But, regrettably, Hendry has stacked the clubhouse with prima donnas over the years and it's all come to a boil at the first sign of failure.
by tharr on Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT 0 recs
Athletes from the same team are always fighting
What WILL happen? I have no idea. But SOMETHING has to be done. It's not time for "cooler heads", because if that happens, then it's the same old, same old.
Time to make a bold move. Period. In fact, the mere fact that you mention, that the club is to be sold, with Hendry likely out of a job -- why would he NOT want to make a bold move? What does he have to lose?
by Al on
Jun 1, 2007 5:41 PM CDT
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The time for blod moves are over
It's rebuild time. Get what you can for JJ, Z, Barrett and the firestarters in the pen. With those pieces figure out what the team will look like in 2008.
This team will not finish over .500.
If you think they will you are crazier than Z.
by MrDurden on
Jun 1, 2007 5:46 PM CDT
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you're from chicago
by nycbirdo on
Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM CDT
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um, how?
by nycbirdo on
Jun 1, 2007 6:13 PM CDT
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Huge difference...
Another point: Jordan brought it. Every practice. Every game. As I said in another post, if Z was successful and acting like an ace, then this MIGHT be excusable. But he's playing like shit, so condemning another player rings hollow.
by thekansasian on
Jun 1, 2007 6:18 PM CDT
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ok
i realize this isn't perfect because a) it fits under your "if they bring it" exception (bonds and kent were back-to-back mvp's as this was going on, iirc), and b) bonds is a jackass and everyone knows this.
but still - my point is that these are ultra-competitive people who can end up losing their tempers and fighting teammates almost as easily as fighting their opponents.
by nycbirdo on
Jun 1, 2007 6:25 PM CDT
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On that...
I'm just saying there's a difference between this immature stunt and a fight that might break out at practice.
And yes, there certainly are other examples of this.
by thekansasian on
Jun 1, 2007 7:09 PM CDT


