Griffey-Marshall/Jones Rumor
Over at MLBtradrumors.com, there is a rumor of a Griffey to the Cubs deal. I am sure that others will see it, and I actually came by BCB to read what others would think. I for one, wouldn't do it. If there was someone who seemed ready to step in for Marshall, I'd be fine, but at this point, I just don't see that many more rotation answers. Just for the Hell of it, I'll add a poll:
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
0 recs |
49 comments
Comments
Hmmm.....
by BeerCub on Jun 18, 2007 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Would the Reds be nuts?
But, why is this a bad deal for the Reds? Marshall has the looks of a quality major league pitcher, and frankly, Griffey isn't going to help them compete anytime soon.
The one thing I will say is that I don't see the Reds trading Griffey to anyone until he hits #500, it would seem that would be a milestone that will bring folks into the ballpark.
by WGNstatic on Jun 18, 2007 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IDK
However, it also creats problems. What would you do with Floyd? You can't put Griffey back in center and Pie to AAA. Who would be the 5th starter?
by cubbyblue137 on Jun 18, 2007 10:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
put floyd
by LilLPLancer23 on Jun 18, 2007 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any chance the Reds would take into consideration
hoooook us up Cinci. Ohman, Jones and Murton for Griffey!
You owe us man!
by pies20ready on Jun 19, 2007 1:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Griffey will be 38 in November. Yes, he's been healthy and had a good year this year. And you want to trade a young, promising starting pitcher for him, just to get Jones off the roster?
Then what do you do with Cliff Floyd? In case you hadn't noticed, he is hitting .312/.372/.416.
No thanks.
by Al on Jun 19, 2007 4:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agree al
by bennyha on Jun 19, 2007 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Griffey is having a terrific year, but he is an ENORMOUS injury risk, and only upgrades RF some. Having a very solid young fifth starter is worth more than the risk associated with Griffey.
It'd be taking a step forward in RF (with the potential of taking no steps if/when Griff gets hurt again) and a large step backward in the rotation.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2007 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Gallagher's nearly ready,,,
Griffey's .949 ops would provide a huge boost to the lineup. Lee's home run totals are way down and Soriano's power is under-utilized leading off, so they need another power hitter.. But yeah, gotta worry about the injuries...
by CubFaninCA on Jun 19, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gallagher is far from ready
They might be ok first time through the order but the 2nd time through, big league hitters will adjust and continue to pound them 2nd and 3rd time through.
Gallagher right now as a starter??? That's just not a good idea or realistic option.
by pies20ready on Jun 19, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohman,Jones, and Murton......
by Comfortably Numb on Jun 19, 2007 5:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tongue in cheek sport.
by pies20ready on Jun 19, 2007 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Griffey is
Marshall and Jones, I don't think that would get it done. I would rather the Cubs trade Hill, I believe Marshall will be a better starter in the long run.
Maybe a Veal, Jones package. Griffey would be great in Chicago, I just don't think he would come to the Cubs.
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 19, 2007 7:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Never
by mgfabc on Jun 19, 2007 8:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ill take
by Kchance on Jun 19, 2007 9:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marshall
Marshall for Griffey and the rights to dump Jones?......I'll take it in a second.
Seriously, the next time someone says Cubs fans don't tend to overvalue prospects....point out this trade theory.
Marshall is not that good. Every once in a while, he has given us a pretty decent spot start. He is not a top propect, and he does not have any real promise of even being a permanent starter in the Cubs' rotation or anywhere else. If everyone gets hurt this year and he winds up getting 15 starts because of it, offseason moves will ensure he isn't a starter at the beginning of next year - let's face it, that's the truth.
And frankly, this team needs the offense.
Or perhaps we can retool for the next five or six years and try and make a run at the playoffs in seasons where once again it requires 95 wins to make the playoffs. Because, you know, the Cubs have such great success making the playoffs when it requires more than 80-something-ish wins.
Take the deal if it arrives, for crying out loud. It's a good lefty bat and OF, cheap, without ten years left in the contract. Meanwhile, you dump Jones and only give up a SP who'll never, ever, ever, ever be a permanent starter on this club.
To me, this seems like giving up little to fill a big need, in order to make a run at a very winnable division.
Alas, it seems some Cubs fan would just assume make only ridiculously lopsided trades or none at all, and just hope everything gets better while doing nothing because any help will be too costly.
Let me tell you a secret, guys: you'll be DEAD before the Cubs win the World Series if you're afraid to make moves. And if your measure of trade value vs. need really sees a veto of even this propsed trade, you're unappeasable by any REALISTIC evaluation. You want something for NOTHING, and that isn't going to happen anymore.
What, exactly, is Marshall going to give us - and ONLY Marshall - that makes him so untradable?
This is lunacy. If this trade reaches the table and I'm GM - Jones wears red and Griffey plays at Wrigley. Meanwhile, our pitching staff buys everyone dinner for making a move to help this team score some more runs.
The days of getting D.Lee for Choi are gone - and they certainly aren't going to happen at this year's trade deadline. No matter how much you'd really like it, the Cubs aren't going to get a fifth starter or quality position player for the stretch run for some large combination of minor league nothings, even in large numbers of nothings.
Come on folks, this is a solid deal.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 19, 2007 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marshall
So why do you think he is no better than a 6th starter type?
by WGNstatic on Jun 19, 2007 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why...
If I thought Ken Griffey Jr. was the one piece of the puzzle who could bring the Cubs a World Series title, sure, I'd do it. But I think it's pretty clear he's not.
Sean Marshall, on the other hand, might be a good starting pitcher now and in the future. The jury's still out on him.
Finally, this is all moot. Griffey wouldn't approve a trade to the Cubs, period.
by Al on Jun 19, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely.
Ness: Yeah, well... You're not from Chicago.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Griffey approval.
The "one piece of the puzzle" argument doesn't sell with me, because that is talk that applies to teams who are front-runners, not teams looking to get in the back door. The Cubs' perpetual business plan is to be just good enough to get in the back door of the playoffs. They'll never truly be in a "just one more piece needed" position. They may try and sell that political spin, like they do every year with the semi-annual bullpen revamping, but it's never truly the case.
Remember, the closest the Cubs have been to the "one more piece" scenario NOT invoving the revolving door that is the bullpen was when they took a team with five spots in the order batting under .250 and told us all how they just needed one more power bat. Then they narrowed it down to one player - the only player they thought they could get for nothing - Fred McGriff.
Here's my point: the 2007 Cubs have a BETTER chance of making the playoffs with Griffey on the roster instead of Jones and Marshall. And Marshall will not - EVER - be a permanent starter on this team. The "jury's still out" argument is just the usual overvaluing justification used to try and extrapolate the occasional good start of a mid- or lower- ranged prospect over a theoretical career that isn't going to happen. The jury isn't out, you're just hoping for a better verdict after several more appeals.
Seriously, can you envision ANY scenario - if Marshall were a memeber of a different team, having come up through their system - where you would be advocating trading for Marshall? I sure can't.
Griffey may not want to move, granted. But I'd trade Marshall/Jones in a second for someone who's going to help this team score runs down the stretch. Just beating our collective breasts and moaning "underperformers!" hasn't been an effective solution - in 2007 or in the past several years. And I'm not one for watching the few, sparse, rare playoff opportunities pass by under the faint hopes that some undrafted prospect might turn out to be a servicable bottom of the order starter - maybe, perhaps, possibly - somewhere down the line.
I cannot buy into the threshold that Marshall has just such a high ceiling that I shouldn't possibly consider trading him for anything less than what I would firmly believe is the absolute LAST piece of the puzzle needed to win the World Series. I'll take a chance on a proven bat, even just for a year or two, before the threshold for getting into the playoffs again rises beyond the level that the Cubs will even be able to pretend to aspire to. I wouldn't do that with EVERY or ANY prospect - Veal, Smardzaluffagus, and the like I'd hold to a higher value - but getting a bat who can really help down the stretch is what I'd consider value for Marshall/Jones. His selling price is higher now than it will ever be again.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 19, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who
by cubbyblue137 on Jun 19, 2007 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
5th Starter.
Right now I think we're looking at hoping for maybe 8 wins from the #5 starter in the Cubs' 2007 season. I see no reason why any of these guys, with the addition of an offensive talent to the batting order to help out, couldn't be servicable enough to get the rest of the job done.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 19, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree...
- Guzman is out of the picture as as a starter with arm problems again. Miller is NOT "serviceable" - he's terrible. And Cotts has shown no signs of being serviceable as a starter in AAA. And Gallagher has been shelled as a reliever so far, so I don't know what makes you think he'd be tolerable either.
- What "top pitching prospect" are you talking about? We don't HAVE any more top pitching prospects to bring up. Marmol, Marshall, and Hill were the last of those that are remotely ready to contribute.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: 5th Starter.
Ness: Yeah, well... You're not from Chicago.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes....
45% of the season is over as of his next start, and he has three wins. Assuming he gets a full 16 starts the rest of the way, that means he needs more than five wins over those 16 starts, which I don't think will happen. I think getting eight wins right now out of the #5 starter is pretty damn near EXACTLY what we should expect.
You watch: once again, the moment of highest "sell high" potential will pass, just like it always does. It will pass because everyone will vastly overvalue Marshall, just like they do every single Cubs prospect who comes up and gives a few good starts. Then they'll get nothing for him, and he'll go the way of Brandt Brown, Gary Scott, and more than a few starters who gave us a few decent spot starts and turned out to be EXACTLY what everyone knew they would be when all was said and done.
But hey, why sell Enron when the stock has been rising all month? What are you, crazy?!
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 20, 2007 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Yes....
In any case, I see what you mean about trading a player while his value is high. And I guess if it came down to a choice between Hill and Marshall, I'd stick with Hill.
Nonetheless, I still don't think any of the names you mentioned are viable candidates for the No. 5 spot. In my view, Marshall fits the No. 5 role perfectly and should not be traded away unless the Cubs can get a player of remarkably high value.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 20, 2007 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE????
All them quality. IF he had ANY run support he would be 5-0
His ERA is 2.12. He has the lowest WHIP in the MLB and 27 strikeouts to 7 walks and he is a 6 '7 leftie. I don't expect him to continue at that pace but you do NOT trade a pitcher like this for a wonderful but aging and oft injured OF. I am a HUGE Griffey fan but lets face if he came to the Cubs the FIRST thing he would do is crash in the ivy and be out for the season. Overvalued prospects are in the MINOR leagues not pitching lights out for
a month in the MLB. I won't say he is totally untradeable but NOT
for Griffey.
by jessica on Jun 19, 2007 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overvalue Marshall
With that said I still would not trade for Jr., but if Marshall has to be included in another trade, I would not hesitate to trade him.
by cubfaninSTL on Jun 19, 2007 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's a young PITCHER...
I don't care if he's a low-ceiling guy, I don't care if there's only at 15% chance he becomes as good as Mark Buehrle - and you know this because what, exactly? How many young Cubs pitchers have been dealt in recent years? Willis? Mitre? Nolasco? Pinto? Can we stop pissing away young pitching, please?
by cwyers on Jun 19, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
If you want to trade someone like Guzman who is injury prone, I'm all for it. Injury prone guys do not fair well in Chicago ala Wood & Prior. You need stability and you just don't know what you're getting with Jr.
by cubbyblue137 on Jun 19, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Gallagher and Hill projects as better,
Many like to complain about the Cubs selling low. Wellll, here's their chance to sell high. They should have done so w/ the Mark Murton.
by CubFaninCA on Jun 19, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no,...
by Damen Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
re: No, no,...
Ness: Yeah, well... You're not from Chicago.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2007 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If
by cubbyblue137 on Jun 19, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen Dunn play enough.
He'd make Jacque Jones look like a Gold Glover.
by Al on Jun 19, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you asked me...
by Damen Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will Hendry go after Tejada again?
While Tejada's ops of .770 is down, it's still .100 points better than Theriot's, and Tejada's a better defensive player. His zone rating is nearly as good as Orlando Cabrera's. Perhaps Baltimore would take Marhsall, Jones and Eyre??
If the Cubs are dealing Barrett and keeping Koyie Hill, they need another bat. They could bat Tejada 6th in between Floyd & DeRosa..
by CubFaninCA on Jun 19, 2007 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs...
by cwyers on Jun 19, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well it would be a wash in 2008...
So basically the Cubs will be making no moves then?
by CubFaninCA on Jun 19, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can add salary in '07.
by cwyers on Jun 19, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not actually...
by Damen Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what you're telling me...
by cwyers on Jun 19, 2007 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You lost me there....
by Damen Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hypothetically speaking
by pies20ready on Jun 19, 2007 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Neither
by cubbyblue137 on Jun 19, 2007 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
by pies20ready on Jun 19, 2007 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My
by cubbyblue137 on Jun 19, 2007 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to clarify...
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 20, 2007 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by 


















