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Statement! ... Statement. ... Statement!

Three statements were made this weekend: first, by the Cubs, with the amazing comeback and walkoff HR on Friday; then, by the Brewers yesterday, coming back from what could have been a devastating loss for them and winning convincingly... and then again today by the Cubs, who put Milwaukee on notice that they are here to stay, with a most impressive 5-1 win over the Brewers, making the final "statement" of the series, and winning it, leaving town for the first-half ending road trip one game closer to the Brewers than they were when Milwaukee came to town on Friday.

And that, despite the winning streak that was snapped yesterday, is as good as the Cubs could have hoped for or expected. The 2007 Milwaukee Brewers are a very good team (and almost all home-grown; 7 of their 8 position player starters today came from their own system), and they're not going to be easy to catch, since even with the series win, and a 7-5 series lead for the Cubs in the season series (which, unfortunately for pennant race fans everywhere, will end before August does, with a three-game set at Wrigley Field Aug. 28-30), the Cubs remain six and a half games behind.

Still, that seems somehow closer than it did a few weeks ago, doesn't it? Suddenly, this team is playing as a team; guys like Mark DeRosa and Mike Fontenot, who have been red-hot in the last week, were quiet today, but others stepped up. Ryan Theriot, mired in a slump, was returned to the 2-spot in the batting order today and had three doubles and scored three of the five runs. Derrek Lee also had three hits, raising his average back to .346 -- and he drove in a run when Theriot successfully avoided Johnny Estrada's tag (or did he? We turned around to watch on the plasma screen at the building on Waveland behind us. As we turned around, people in the building were signaling "safe", but after the replay, some were shrugging and signaling "out". Hey, so we caught a break.). So for those of you worried that Lee only hit two HR in June -- why worry? He's hitting and producing, and also made two slick plays in the field today, plays that most other first basemen would have waved at as they went down the RF line for doubles.

And the biggest applause today for the pitchers, both Jason Marquis and Carlos Marmol. Marquis threw seven solid innings, allowing only four hits; his only real mistake was a HR to Corey Hart, smashed really, really hard through a 15-MPH wind blowing in on yet another postcard-view sunny day, with an unusually (for July 1) cool gametime temperature of 67 degrees. Other than that, Marquis was nearly perfect; he walked one and of his 21 outs, 12 were recorded on ground balls. With the bullpen being run ragged the last few days, we were absolutely astounded to see him lifted after seven innings with a pitch count of 77 (54 strikes). Why not let him finish, or at least throw one more inning?

Marmol answered that question by showing absolutely electric stuff for two innings, topping out at 95 on the ballpark radar board, and throwing some absolutely filthy sliders, as well, striking out four of the seven batters he faced (23 pitches, 21 strikes, and this has been Marmol's problem, lack of control -- if this is a sample of how he's conquered that problem, the Cubs have, at the very least, a great setup man, and maybe a future lights-out closer). He might have gone through the two innings unscathed if Alfonso Soriano had been able to make the catch on a sinking liner by J. J. Hardy, only to see it bounce off the heel of his glove. Marmol got Ryan Braun to fly to Mark DeRosa in right, somewhat shakily -- we wondered why Felix Pie hadn't gone into CF, with Angel Pagan in RF, for defense in the 9th -- and then, to an ever-louder crescendo of cheers from the crowd of 41,486 (almost all of whom stuck around for the end, on a day when the first couple of innings dragged, but the last several flew by, and the time of 2:08 was the fastest of the year), struck out both Prince Fielder and Bill Hall on fastballs that seemed to get faster.

The total attendance, incidentally, for the weekend was 124,810, a new record for a three-game series at Wrigley Field, breaking the record set... last year, May 26-28, vs. Atlanta. This included a few people who sat with us today who got BCB cards and who I wanted to say, "Hey!" to: a twenty-something couple who spent most of their time talking to Phil (oh, you guys had no idea what you were in for!), and a nice couple with two young kids, 5 and 7, from Cleveland who are Cubs fans "just because we love Chicago", as they said. So if you all are reading -- welcome! Quite a weekend to be at Wrigley Field.

I wanted to say a few things to Brewers fans, some of whom I know read this site. I've read some of your comments, particularly at Brew Crew Ball, a site I admire, and frankly I was astonished at the vitriol you threw our way. For my part, I just want you to know that I have always respected the Brewers and their fans; when Milwaukee was an AL team I used to root for them, obviously, I don't any more, but I do have a great respect for what Doug Melvin and Ned Yost have built -- you guys have a very, very good team to cheer for this year (and likely, with the youth of your lineup, for many years to come), and I look forward to the rest of this season, to perhaps a closer race, and a budding rivalry that could become a great one. Let's not hate on each other. Deal?

Finally, I've heard word today that there is possible activity on the trade front involving both Jacque Jones and Cesar Izturis. Something might happen in the next couple of days. Stay tuned. After tomorrow, the Cubs will be exactly halfway through the schedule. I look forward to more excitement, and wins, in the second half.

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Where'd
you hear that?

I wonder if Cedeno's hot month is paving Izturis' way out.

I also think that Hendry is sealing his own fate by dumping all these guys he signed/traded for for pennies on the dollar. A new owner probably wouldn't be too impressed with that. But good for Piniella for making him clean up the roster.

by jazzypete on Jul 1, 2007 4:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry
By "that", i mean the Jones/Izturis rumor. Any idea where they might be headed? Looks like the Padres need an outfielder again with Bradley back on the shelf.

by jazzypete on Jul 1, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Sources say".
That's all I can say. Will keep you posted if I hear anything further.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So should Epstein be fired
for signing Lugo and Drew to ridiculous contracts?
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Jul 1, 2007 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers/Cubs means more to the other side...
of the border.

Brewer fans don't get that we've had a rivalry with the Cardinals that dates FAR FAR FAR back.

The Brewer 'rivalry' will never top Cubs/Cardinals.  It can't.  Cub fans actually for the most part, like myself and Al, used to like the ole Brewer teams in the AL with Yount and Molitor.

As a matter of fact, I know a lot of Cub fans that have openly stated that they'll be rooting for the Brew Crew if they represent the NL Central this year because the options of (mets, phils, dodger, padre, zona, brave) the other just isn't enticing.

Most Cub fans enjoy the rivalry, but we could care less for the anger being spewed from up north.

Ah, but who knows.  Maybe the rivalry can hit new levels if this goes on for the next couple of years.

"You're fired." - Dallas Green to Billy Connors while Billy was staying in the hospital.

by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 4:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It'd be great, wouldn't it...
... if both teams could make the postseason.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that woud be great
I would love for the Brewers to get the wildcard. lol
Everybody on the count of three kick karma in the ass, maybe that will wake her up.

by Me and Lou WS 07 on Jul 1, 2007 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the early 80s
there were some nasty series between the Brewers and the White Sox.  The rivalry never got too big because they were in different divisions, but I can remember reports of fist fights breaking out in the stands.

There is a certain subset of Wisconsinites who just hate everything Chicago.  Most Badgers like or even love the city, but there are some that have a visceral hatred of the place.  I got a lot of this as a Cub fan growing up in Madison.

I believe I know some of the psychology of it, and you can probably guess at it too.  It's mostly ugly and I'll keep my thoughts to myself for fear of setting them off.

But Milwaukee and Chicago are both wonderful cities, for the most part.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I lived in Milwaukee
and went to college there. While there was always an intense rivalry between the baseball and football teams, I never had a problem with anyone.

Too bad that the 5% of theirs and ours fans are jerks who usually know a bare minimum about the game are portrayed to represent the majority.

Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah
like I said, I grew up in Madison.  Most people from Wisconsin are cool.

There's just a small subset.  Of course, that's true everywhere.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went to school in Milwaukee too
I loved going to Brewer games, half price with college ID on Fridays, went 8 times one summer.  In fact, I will probably root for them if they make the playoffs.  I like their team and their manager.  It's what happens when you haven't been real good for a long time and then suddenly you are.  The people that weren't fans before, all of a sudden come out of the woodwork and talk trash just because they have a better record than the Cubs.  It happened when the White Sox won the World Series and their fans just got annoying.  I was at Summerfest last night and a Brewer fan asked me, why the Cubs are ALWAYS jacked up when they beat the Brewers.  I think he was referring to the Friday game.  I told him the reaction would have been a lot different if the Cubs were in last place and the Brewers in fifth.  I feel like Wrigley would have been nuts if the Cubs were looking up at the Pirates in first and the same thing happened.

I don't know, just my take on it.  When I lived in Lake Geneva, I met many Packer/ Cub fans and only a few Brewer fans.  And when I've visted in the Appleton area, they show Cub highlights on the news and people have told me they've grown up listening to Cub games in the afternoon.  It's just around Milwaukee, I feel the hate for the Cubs.  

I think the Brewer fans being up for the Cubs series is similar is the way that DePaul fans get up for the Marquette game, for another Milwaukee Chicago connection.  I still remember their fans storming the floor in '04 (one year post Wade/ Final Four, the same year MU didn't qualify for the NCAA tournament.

by MerigoldBowling on Jul 1, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

its a lot worse
when you go to uw-madison and there is constant slander from sox and brewers fans.

by BuckyisaCubbiesFan on Jul 2, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm kinda sad...
that I have to wait another 25 hours to watch/listen to this team again.  I almost hope there is a trade just so we have something to talk about until 6 tomorrow night.

by WartburgCub on Jul 1, 2007 5:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As Meat Loaf Would Say...
Two out of three ain't bad...
- CF

by nervousCUBlover on Jul 1, 2007 5:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Or To Quote Winston Churchill...
Regarding the Brewers' Stay in First Place...

"Now this is not the end...

It is not even the beginning of the end.

But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

Let's Mop Up the Nats & Bucs & Go into the ASB 47-40!

And then win the ASG so as to get home field in the WS! :)

- CF

by nervousCUBlover on Jul 1, 2007 5:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Same situation
Like SD/LA....Padres fans hate LA. Dodgers fans don't give a damn, and that is what pisses off the Padres fans even more.

Small town insecurities....that big' ol mean town
to the south (or, to the North, out here) that's dirty, filled with traffic, etc etc etc.

Nothing wrong with either Mil/SD as places to live, (obviously the weather is better here) but you usually make less money, a trade of lifestyle for cash. (And in Milwaukee's case, cheaper real estate)

Also, the way Cubs fans take over Miller Park, as Dodgers fans (and Cubs fans and Red Sox fans) take over Petco infuriates the locals in both towns. But that's the way it goes. Your market is smaller. Deal with it.

Again, the nickname for those from Illinois/Chicago by those who live in America's Dairyland isn't very nice:

Fking - Ill - Bastards.

However, the code is "FIB's."

I stopped posting at the Padres site because of all the crap I took from the teens that run the site. They insulted me, even when my posts were not snarky, or insulting. I was not trolling.

Who needs the small towners, anyway....

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 5:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Or even
some of the Orange County versus LA crap.

I remember reading a message board during the LA Angels of Anaheim controversy, and I remember someone wrote "We don't need to be associated with the gangs, drugs, crime and stuck-up attitudes of Los Angeles."

Of course you don't.  Orange County has gangs, drugs, crime and stuck-up attitudes of their own.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah I talked over at gaslamp
They really dont like you. it's all good though we still like ya here.

besides, your a leatherneck. we gotta stick together. :)

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Jul 1, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you guys are marines?
if so, f-n' A man, now there's three of us on the board....
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Four.
n/t
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2007 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry for the confusion
I suppose I could have just said WIU grads. Anyways to those of you who post on this site who are in the armed forces: Thank You. You guys do some great work and I am extremely thankful for all that you do.
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Jul 2, 2007 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your welcome
and thanks to you, too, for your support. it means more than you know.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, "you're" oops.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I echo Mike's statement.
Thank you and know that you all are appreciated.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.
I just called it as I saw it. Immature babies. I had enough of their BS.

I was asked: You say you have lived here 25 years -- why haven't you assimilated???

Huh? What? Assimilated?? Is there some sort of loyalty test I have to take to live in this county??

I tried to explain -- look, if you are a native of SD, and you move elsewhere, you are telling me you wouldn't be a Padres fan?? If you say no, you: 1) You aren't much of a Padres Fan 2) You are a frontrunner.

I didn't get a satisfactory answer to the question -- just more derision.

I explained I took some terrible abuse here in 1984. (Most of the posters weren't even born yet, and didn't understand why I -- am still upset.)

I am like their "Gaius."  (I guess)  

Strangely enough, I just flipped over to Gaslamp today, (for the first time since I left) and, of course, there it is, my name comes up again. Obviously, I made an impact.

I signed off, and asked them to delete my account, for I have no need to visit a site where there seem to be more posts about Marcus Giles' penchant for nudity than actual 'baseball' stories. (Guess the sarcasm didn't go over well.)

I may be moving to LA later this year, so I really don't give a damn about those people.

Dodgers fans are a bit more secure in their loyalty. You take a little crap there, but it's absolutely no big deal whatsoever. And this 'rumor' that keeps floating around about Dodger Stadium being 'unsafe' (Oh, how they love to state that over and over on gaslampball) is really -- filtered with racist undertones.

I did enjoy the frustration they suffered the 3 days the Red Sox were here. 50% of the crowds, decidedly Red Sox fans. The local paper had a story about a long-time Padres ticket holder (from Boston) who abandonded his Padres gear for the series in favor of the Bosox. I just loved that.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

a couple comments
  1. don't compare yourself to gaius
  2. I saw the stuff about the red sox and found it amusing. Kind of reminded me of the pissing match that started up about the cubs fan presence in milwaukee
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Jul 2, 2007 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, no
Not those Leathernecks, sorry.

These "Leathernecks"  that were just referenced are those of Western Illinois University in Macomb -- the only school in the county which takes its' nickname from one of the branches of the services.

The bulldog (Rocky, the bulldog -- to be accurate) is the logo/team mascot.

I am a grad of WIU. Loved that place, had a great time and it's a wonderful school -- big enough to have everything, but it's not massive like Illinois, or NIU or SIU so you get lost in the shuffle. (Just a thought for those who might be considering one of the 'directional' schools in the Land Of Lincoln..)

Not that far from Chicago and St Louis, either.
It's in the part of Illinois that (at the time) the residents called "Forgotonia."

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's okay, jazz man
you're a cub fan, so you're alright in my book.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WIU....wow...the memories
I grew up in the Quad Cities as the son of  diehard Cub's fan (and I was in grade school but still remember '69) and our family used to go camping at Argyle Lake outside macomb all the time. Great place, great town, good people.

Don't post here often, but I read every day and always enjoy your posts. I feel your pain on the '84 references in S.D.

by cubrandy on Jul 1, 2007 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jazz Man
I too am a former WIU "Leatherneck" Good to see there are others here!

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WIU!
Nice to know WIU is well-represented on here.  Certainly enjoyed the time in college there and, yes, even with new roads being built, it's still Forgottonia (as of 2001)...gotta love the western Illinois conneciton on here - those alumni brochures should include a BCB get together!

by Tater01 on Jul 2, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

all of us WIU alumn on here
should get tix for the WIU vs U of I football game.
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Jul 2, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

padres fans
are the worst baseball fans in the country, not even brewer fans compare. (I went to high school in San Diego)

by BuckyisaCubbiesFan on Jul 2, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather be a FIB (or SOB) than a cheesehead...
anyday...anyway....
The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 2, 2007 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great game today.
Very happy to see Marquis have a great game. Scary moment when he got hit with the barrel of the bat but glad he could come back and play.

I look forward to each game and am so glad they have turned things around. Exciting times for sure.

Men who whine are so unattractive. This place is full of them.

by sue369 on Jul 1, 2007 5:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Cubs All Stars
F*** YOU BARRY BONDS!  YOU STOLE FONZ'S STARTING JOB!  BULLCRAP!
Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jul 1, 2007 5:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Chicago All-Star Starters:
None...Not even Soriano, replaced by freakin Bonds...
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 5:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

that's too
bad for fonz...barry starting in left has to be a big embarrasment for selig, though...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fonzie will probably
be 'added' and you can still vote in Z.

I'd recommend you go vote on-line. I was watching the Pads/Dodgers and Matty V was urging plenty of Padres votes, because as he put it: "...Cubs fans are everywhere, and Chris Young SHOULD be on the team. (The new vote, the last time I looked at 2p PDT hadn't started yet.)

Screw you, V. Chris Young should miss at least 2 starts because of the fracas w/Lee, but he'll probably only miss one.

Let's make sure that Mr. Young stays home.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

RIGGED?!!?
what?

Wasn't Soriano up by 30,000 votes or something?

"You're fired." - Dallas Green to Billy Connors while Billy was staying in the hospital.

by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of rigged
there are some odd choices here:

michael young?

brian fuentes?

freddy sanchez?

"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Young was a Leyland Pick
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why?
he's really regressed this year and brendan harris has had a terrific year for a pretty bad tampa club
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because
they had to have a Ranger.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It should have been
Sammy though!
The Cubs Are On Their Way!!

by DenverCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol!
but kinda true. since texieria went down, he's all they've got...though kinsler's been good, too
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

seriously
what were the vote totals coming into the weekend.  I thought Soriano was WELL ahead.
"You're fired." - Dallas Green to Billy Connors while Billy was staying in the hospital.

by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only 100K ahead
And with the internet-savvy Bay Area stuffing the ballot box . . .

Folks, we have no one to blame but ourselves.  And Fonzie has been named as a reserve.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

d lee
also made the all star team

by china423 on Jul 1, 2007 5:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

120,000 vote lead?
One week ago By Soriano.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
"You're fired." - Dallas Green to Billy Connors while Billy was staying in the hospital.

by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 5:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Granted the Fonz was robbed
but Griffey starting over Holliday?  Come on! I guess NL fans don't like getting WS home field advantage
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 5:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's because...
... people who vote have heard of Griffey but not of Holliday.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true
and I liked how you used, "people" instead of "fans".  
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sad
but true. seems this is becoming more and more the all-star reputation game. it ought to be the guys having the best year at their position. i wonder, Al, if you think MLB needs to take the vote out of the fans' hands?
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've often felt that way...
... because most of the "fans" who vote don't know what they're talking about. They vote for the "home" players regardless of whether they're any good or not, or for players they've heard of, like Griffey.

Maybe the fans could still vote, but the managers could override one starter per team if they felt it was really a bad selection.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's actually
a nice idea.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fan voting is corrupt
Especially with the way a "fan" can have unlimited paper ballots and up to "25" online ballots per "e-mail"

Have the managers pick the teams, give the fans a couple of "final" votes after the selections.

Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jul 1, 2007 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they do
"give the fans a couple of "final" votes after the selections."

it's up right now. go vote for carlos! and toss one for neshek, too. that guy is lights out.

"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know this
I still disagree with giving the fans the right to vote in starters.  Especially with how corrupt it is, and ESPECIALLY if the MLB wants the game to decide something as important as home-field advantage during the WS.
Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jul 1, 2007 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

split vote?
couldn't they split the vote in some way? saying giving the fans voting a 1/3 weighting, and maybe a 1/3 to managers and a 1/3 to players or something of that sort?

that way you could keep the "excitement" of fan voting, but still have some more reasonable picks based on performance

by bobby h on Jul 1, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would make sense, too.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not...
...exactly like Griffey is having a bad year. And (despite the fact that it "counts") the All-Star game is a glorified exhibition. I don't think it's particularly awful that fan favorites get picked over guys having a career year toiling away for the Rockies, say.

And having the managers step in isn't always the best idea. You think that MANAGERS are less likely to vote for the established veterans than the fans are?

(And if you take a look at Baseball Prospectus's VORP list, Griffey and Bonds both rate. It's Carlos Beltran that's blocking Holliday on the All-Star starters.)

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2007 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't say this is Holliday's
"Career Year"

He is only 27-years-old and perhaps the best hitter in the NL, right up there with Pujols and Cabrera.  Holliday will continue to be a great hitter and has only gotten better with every year in the league. Yes, Griffey has the name, but Holliday has the Numbers

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Griffey
is having a hell of a year.  He's got 21 HRs already.

It's Beltran that doesn't deserve to be starting.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

None of the Mets......
deserve to be starting......David Wright probably shouldn't even be there.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd have
voted for Reyes.  In fact I did.  

It's close between Reyes and Ramirez at shortstop, but I think Reyes has a slight edge.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano was robbed?
How?  You do realize, right, that Barry Bonds has the highest OPS in the NL and it's not even remotely close.  His OPS is 1.112 and Prince Fielder, who is 2nd is at .997.  He's the best player in the National League and there's not even a distant 2nd.  It would have been an absolute joke for a game that is already a joke had Bonds not been in LF as a starter.  It would have been even worse if that starter instead of Bonds was the guy who has the 6th best OPS in the outfield in Alfonso Soriano.  

He got robbed?  The only thing wrong with the final tally is that it was as close as it was.  The fact that Bonds barely beat Soriano is a testament to the idiocy of baseball fans all around this country.  I don't give a rat's ass how much you like or dislike a man...this game is about winning and getting home field advantage to the NL and any person that didn't vote for Bonds should no longer be allowed to vote.  Period.  I'm dead serious.  

Now...if you didn't vote at all...good for you.  But if you did vote and you didn't vote for Bonds...

People wonder why I think it's a joke that they allow fans to vote for the all-star starters.  It's worse than pathetic.  The average IQ of the fan voting is less than the temperature of ice cream.  

by Maddog on Jul 1, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...
don't hold back.  Tell us how you really feel.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Jul 1, 2007 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry...
but I try to avoid giving steroid freaks who have disgraced this game any honor whats-so-ever.  If my head size grew by 3 hat sizes over a few year period, than I too could hit homeruns to the moon.
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disgraced this game?
What game are you talking about?  The one that didn't allow people of color to play until 1947?  The one where an entire World Series was thrown?  The one where the record books are as flawed and biased as the people who score the games as well as the people who play them?  The game where cheaters are celebrated in the hall of fame?  The game where spit balls were the only pitch thrown for about a decade?  The game where a college degree used to mean you were automatically the smartest person who played, but now a game where a high school diploma means what a college degree used to to the game?  

Darn you, Barry!  You broke my heart.  I thought this was a game of honor, but I've read internet reports that your hat size is 3 times bigger and you've now disgraced this great game that has no blemishes on its record.

Are you serious?  Honestly?  If you think Bonds disgraced this game you don't know the history of this game and apparently don't even care to learn it.

by Maddog on Jul 1, 2007 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that
Centigrade or Fahrenheit?
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,
I was initially thinking Fahrenheit, but upon further review, it's got to be Celsius.

by Maddog on Jul 1, 2007 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well....
....nice of you to call us all idiots. Imagine what we must think of you, even though you don't care, because after all, you're God.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Leave It Someone Like You....
...to take an otherwise good baseball weekend for the Cubs and come on BCB to argue about shit like this. People don't like Bonds. Many people loathe Bonds and all that he repesents. You and your pompous self will just have to live with that. And don't dare to presume to lecture anyone here with your holier than thou attitude about baseball history. Many of us here were witnessing some of it before you were even born. One can tolerate you and your occasional little forays on this board anymore to lecture Al about what an idiot he is for thinking opposite of what you do on particular subject, because it seems to help you overcome other shortcomings, but today you became just flat out f'n annoying. If you can't play nice find another playground to beef up your self worth.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and to say he is the best player in the NL
and there isn't even a close second?  You are joking right?  I guess defense means absolutely nothing to you and that the only measure of a player is his ability to hit HR's?

I can think of plenty of players I would rather have: Pujols, Reyes, Wright, Utley, Howard, Peavy, Webb, Holliday, Cabrera, H. Ramirez, etc...

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

see above
re: IQ < temperature of ice cream
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh yes.....
..no room for differing opinions. Anyone who disagrees must be an idiot. Noted.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you catch on quickly
give yourself a little more credit.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so...
was your post an attack on myself?
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no
it was an observation.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a suggestion
turn yourself into Thelonius Alcoholic, because you are in need of help; delusional, self righteous, and in denial.  

You know, the first step is admitting you have a problem...

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a problem
There...are you happy.

My problem: I can't resist arguing with moronic comments on the internet. If I could turn this moment into powder, I would snort it.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

please...I wish you would elaborate on that
or, I forget, I'm dealing with a delusional person who probably has no idea what they are talking about themselves.  

How is saying I would rather build a team around youth, speed, pitching, and defense than a 43-year-old guy who runs like a the freakin tin man and can only hit HR's at this point in his career moronic?  

Please, I want to hear your argument.  Or is all you can do is make incredibly simple statement like "IQ < Ice Cream"

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we aren't talking about building a team
we're talking about the allstar game. Therefore, what Bonds does for the rest of his career after the 2007 allstar game is completely irrelevant. The fact that you missed the gist of this discussion is your fault. I suggest you spend more time paying attention to the conversation at hand, and save your reflexive attempted insults (they scream of insecurity, anyway) for later (when you have a free moment).

I haven't taken a math class for a few years, but (stop me if I'm wrong) I seem to vaguely remember reading in a textbook that an OPS of 1.119 is a higher number than Prince Fielder's .985 (especially when you consider the fact that OBP is weighted more heavily than slugging in the most current metrics, and bonds is on base in more than half of his plate appearances).

Fielder, of course, does win major points for being the defensive whiz that he is. He has a shockingly low number of errors at first base, with 10.

I do realize that my alcoholism and chronic delusions do hinder my math skills (along with the advised ban on operating heavy machinery), so let me know if my calculations were off. Plus, my abacus is in the shop getting a fresh set of beads.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...I think that we are arguing over two
different things (which you originally, perhaps, missed).  Maddog said that Bonds was the best player in the NL and that there isn't even a close second.  If, you would have read correctly, is what I was arguing against, i.e. my list of players.  

Also, if you had read my post correctly, I did not have Fielder on my list of players I would rather take over Bonds.  (Not that I saying I wouldn't but he isn't on my list so I don't know why you are using him for your example).  

So, perhaps, you should read a little more closely before saying "IQ < Ice Cream" because, one example of a low IQ is not being able to comprehend what you read.  

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

take your own advice
Maddog said that "Bonds is the best player in the NL" in a post discussing the allstar game. Using context is an important part of reading comprehension, my friend.

Any question regaring who is the best player going forward (2008 and beyond) is irrelevant.

I haven't looked at counting stats (like VORP), and I imagine bonds probably hasn't been the most productive player in the NL this year, since he sits out frequently, but he has clearly been the best player in the nl, statistically speaking, when he plays.

Maddog did neglect to mention Chipper Jones (he's the only player close to bonds this year production-wise when he plays). I think this is because maddog is privately sweet on barry bonds.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we'll just agree to disagree
because making a statement that a player is the best in an entire league goes farther than just an insignificant exhibition game.  

Is Bonds the best player for hitting HR's and having pitchers not pitch to him?  Most likely yes, but I feel that that is not the only factor in determining a players wealth.

All I'm saying is that there are literally dozens of other players I would rather have over Bonds and that should be a determining factor when discussing when a player is "The Best" since if he was "The Best" there shouldn't be any players one would rather have.  

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're not allowed to simply disagree
You have to be met with more sarcasm and insults.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, whatever moron!
j/k ;-)
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Izturis,
JJ, Eyre...
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Jul 1, 2007 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
I assumed you realized I was talking offensive players, but you went ahead an included pitchers so I wasn't clear apparently.  

You're talking about who you'd rather have moving forward and I don't disagree, but right now at this very moment the player that can most help win an all-star game that does in fact matter for some damn reason these days, is Barry Bonds.  I could load you up with stat after stat showing Bonds to be the best hitter in the NL this season, but you're not going to pay attention anyway so I'm not going to bother.  

I'll tell you what though.  Let me amend my initial comment to say that anybody who voted for Soriano, but not Bonds should never be allowed to vote again.  To be completely honest with you, I'd favor never allowing someone who did that to enter a baseball game again.  Not even one at the Little League level.  

The undeniable FACT is that Bonds is having a SIGNIFICANTLY better season than Soriano and it's not even worth debating.  This game matters...for some stupid reason.  Put aside your damn anger and hurt feelings for a minute and think about what's best for the National League for crying out loud.  It's possible, though not likely, but it's possible the Cubs could be that team that home field advantage comes into play...vote for the best damn players or don't vote it all.  It's that simple.  If you're going even consider voting for someone or not voting for someone because you like them or don't like them...put your ballot down.  

That kind of crap is fine if this game doesn't matter, but it does.  The NL needs to win the damn thing and it's people like you who make it more difficult than it should be.  You're not awarding anybody for anything.  You're hopefully awarding the National League...hopefully the Cubs with home field advantage in the World Series.  I'd think that you could put aside your hurt feeling to think clearly for a moment and make the decision that best gives the NL a chance to win.  

I'm sorry for ranting about his over here.  I truly am.  This whole Barry Bonds issue just pisses me off and it pisses me off even more when I read shit like this.

I'm sorry to all.

by Maddog on Jul 1, 2007 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Bonds can change a game with one swing
but so can Soriano.  Excempt, if Soriano gets on base, he can change a game, Bonds can't.

 If a player had to run down a fly ball, who would you rather have? (well, after today's drop, it might not be so cut and dry, j/k)

Soriano guns people down out in LF, he hits HR's, he steals bases, he makes many more contributions to a team than Barry Bonds does.

So I just don't see how someone can argue that anyone who considers agruing against Bonds being the best player is, well, agrumentative...or something.  : )

But what got me was the "IQ > Ice Cream" comment, because, well, it's a personal attack when it is very easy to argue that Barry Bonds is NOT the best PLAYER in the League, which is something you claimed.  

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aram Should have been picked
Even with his stint on the DL, he still has just as good if not better numbers that most that La Russa picked.

Notice he also picked Pujols to be on his team too.

by cmf0203 on Jul 1, 2007 5:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yep
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course he should have......
but the fans didn't give him enough support.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he deserves to be on the team
but at least his knee will get some good rest. Which is more important?

I have no argument with Pujols being there. He's the only cardinal to make it anyway.

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Jul 1, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd buy that.....
if Aramis hadn't already come out and said that his knee isn't going to get any better. 1 AB in an ASG in which he deserves to be in, isn't going to make his knee any better or worse.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
Ramirez deserves to be there.  And if his knee wouldn't allow him to play then he could sit out and Tony could pick someone else.  But at least he would have been picked and would have been officially on the team.
The Cubs Are On Their Way!!

by DenverCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly........
Hopefully someone will bow out and he'll get in.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too bad about the Brewer vitrol
I've always liked the Brewers, my 2nd team.  Of course I want the Cubs to win, but I guess I was hoping for a more friendly rivalry.  When I was at Miller I made it a point to complement the fans on their park and team.  I think overall Cub Fans are more good natured (though we have our poorer relations).  Great game Cubs !!!  

by coral on Jul 1, 2007 5:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think every team has its
share of mindless jerks in their fan base.  The Brewers and Cubs are no exception.  While on the Metra train yesterday I saw several people with "Screw the Brew Crew, We're on Lou's Crew!" shirts.  Also, look at some of the comments made towards the Brewers at this site after the Cubs victory two days ago.  However, during my trip to Milwaukee I did see some "The Windy City Blows" shirts...to which I have to give them props for being creative.

by Neifi Puppy on Jul 1, 2007 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is creative
and that the kind of relationship I would like to have, fun and creative.

by coral on Jul 1, 2007 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am happy to say I will be the first to say......
Punch Zambrano for All Star 2007.

Sorry but I had to.

by louslovechild on Jul 1, 2007 6:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i
wish we could punch him up a new contract

by tbizzle83 on Jul 1, 2007 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Aram.
I think that Cabrera got in because he is the lone representative from the Marlins. Otherwise, Ram's numbers are slightly better.

by louslovechild on Jul 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

FINAL VOTE IS UP
go vote for carlos, chicago style. early and often.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 6:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Al...
Any chance of seeing an official diary for drumming up the Zambrano vote?

by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 6:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think I'll do better than that.
I'll post a link on the right sidebar right under the quote.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Further...
... you can vote 25 times per valid email address.

You can get an unlimited supply of valid email addresses here.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why didn't you post that......
when balloting for the starters was going on?
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should have.
Thought Soriano had a comfortable enough lead. Oh, well.

I was surprised Ramirez didn't make the team, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think Ramirez...
 may yet get selected when all is said and done. And I host my own mail-server, so I've been doing some extraordinary ballot stuffing the better part of the afternoon.

by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure he'll get in......
if someone gets hurt, but he shouldn't have to get in through the backdoor.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm upset...
at how hypocritical baseball fans are.  All they do to Barry Bonds is boo him, hold up asterisks, etc. every time he comes up to the plate, yet he is still voted in as an All-Star.  Very bush league.

by WartburgCub on Jul 1, 2007 6:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who to Close?
Has Marmol taken the (temp closer) job from Howry?  Even though Howry has been throwing better the last few weeks, Marmol is a gamer and seems to have some fire in his belly, besides a wicked slider and good heat.

I wouldn't mind seeing him take the closer job away from Dempster, but Lou would not do that to a vet.  I wonder if he'd alternate between the two?  I would like to see Jones-Izturis-Eyre packaged for a vet reliever, and then Cedeno brought up to compete with Theriot for the starter job.

Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Jul 1, 2007 6:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

why
would anyone give the cubs a good vet reliever for those three.

by tbizzle83 on Jul 1, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please tell us
which major league team would be willing to make that trade?
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some other team with...
... a contract they want to dump.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK
name just one team you think might take on Jones and Izturis and Eyre for a reliever they want to dump? No such animal exists.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll see.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've seen this show before...
 I'm smelling Baltimore, in exchange for one of those crazy bullpen deals they took on. Danys Baez anyone?

by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you get any info
about the proposed deal, or just that omething might happen? If you did get any info, what was it? Can you tell me on/offline?

by jazzypete on Jul 1, 2007 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Texas
Rangers dump Gagne on the Cubs with his $6M salary and get Izturis ($4.25M) as backup for all their infielders on DL right now.

Not sure why they would want Jones, but hey, why not?

by JFCubFan on Jul 1, 2007 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus
There is a rumor that Teixeira and his $9M contract may be heading to LA (Dodgers).

by JFCubFan on Jul 1, 2007 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about this?
Jones, Izturis, and Eyre to the Red Sox for Julio Lugo and Joel Piniero.
The call of the Cub fan, c. 1893: "one long, ravaged, derisive yell...a cyclonic whoop!"

by zambranofan on Jul 1, 2007 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where do I sign?
I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.  Unlike Jones, Lugo isn't nearly as bad as he's been.  Let's see, dump three highly unproductive players for a bullpen arm and a guy with speed.  Deal.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2007 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guys...
 Lugo may get run out of town, but not to Chicago. It's really unlikely you'd see the Cubs at this point take on the 3 years - 30 million left on that deal. For a guy batting .190. Walk away.

by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Partner?
I have an idea about what team Al may be refering to.
How about the A's and Jason Kendall's fat contract?
They are thin in the OF since trading Bradley and have Suzuki at C that they want to give more at bats to.
I think Hendry is a Kendall fan too.
What do you guys think?

by GoCubsGo! on Jul 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe?
Kendall (13M)
for
Jones (6M), Izturis (4.2), and Bowen

by GoCubsGo! on Jul 1, 2007 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

given all these options
I sure how we don't get Kendall. His numbers are awful.

by elgato on Jul 1, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Back to your original question of who to close....
there was tremendous support and speculation on the radio waves after the game that Marmol is indeed establishing his role as new closer of this team.  Admittely, I was somewhat surprised to hear this,  but evidently Lou may want to get Marmol in there full time even when Dempster comes back.  Time will tell.  Marmol's got a great arm....question is are we confident enough in his stuff to use a rookie closer down the stretch in a close race?

by LuisSalazar on Jul 1, 2007 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Question Is
not so much IF he can close, but how he will handle it when he blows a save. Will he be able to comeback the next day, what if he blows two in a row?
"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Jul 1, 2007 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

big win today
i live in DC so i should see a few of the games this weekend. hopefully a sweep
If Jesus went to college these days, he would go to Notre Dame

by NDcubsfan on Jul 1, 2007 7:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Al - is Chad Qualls on the Astros
any relation to our infamous Jimmy Qualls ?

by coral on Jul 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not to my knowledge...
Usually, baseball-reference.com is pretty good about keeping up on baseball relations (example: they even note that Lou Piniella and Dave Magadan are cousins.

They make no mention of any relation between the two Quallses.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

might take on Jones and Izturis and Eyre
...seems to me the Sox would be a pretty good candidate for this:
  1. they can't seem to solidify their outfield
  2. Jones seems to play better in the AL
  3. Jones would be able to "avenge" himself playing against the twinkies in an attempt to get past them in the central
And believe me - the Sox have PLENTY of tradable relievers that are good - just not good for THEM!   hehehe
"a brat 'n a beer ovuh here"

by Bluelou on Jul 1, 2007 7:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brewers fans
I actually talked to a couple brewers fans when I got off the el today. nice people. I really don't have any problems with the brewers or their fans and I enjoy games against them win or lose. That being said, it felt good to take 2 out of 3.

I was in on the mezzanine suites with my company and I had a blast. I didn't think i would like sitting up there but it was pretty cool.

It was good to get that win today. Hopefully they can keep this going next week and go into the all-star break a few over .500.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Jul 1, 2007 7:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

brewers fans 2
there was a couple of brewer's fans by me in the bleachers today, and they nice people. they were having fun with us and everyone else in our area.

on the other hand, i feel al on his point. i've been the target of some of the brewer vitriol and hostilities (albeit in milwaukee rather than a wrigley).

by bobby h on Jul 1, 2007 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On Brew Crew Ball.....
...wow, apparently they are very sensitive people. Hard to imagine that my post about MIT nerds was anything other than a joke, but they sure took offense. But seriously, and for them expressly here, this isn't a joke, what's with all the graphs and charts??? Can't they just talk about it without all the visual aids?

Speaking of just talking about it, it's also a shame they decide to take a few ill conceived posts about throwing at guys and brand all Cub fans with it. Of course, reasonable people would not condone something like that. Especially after all the Cubs have been through fight-wise in the last month, the last thing this team needs is another beanball war. I mean, think about it for a second instead of "having all this pent up anger".

Then again, if my team lost 2 of 3 this weekend, I'd be irrational too.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

some of those
were my posts and reading is a skill which some a brew crew ball could utilize. i never said to bean anyone. i said the way fielder was diving over the plate to hack at two-strike pitches, the cubs needed to come up and in to back him off the plate. that's just baseball. i don't want a beanball war, but a pitchers gotta have the inside corner and fielder was taking it totally away yesterday. seondly, when the brewers were stealing bases wiht an 8-run lead, i took exception and noted i they kept it up, someone might get pegged , because that's just disrespectful.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fielder's K
at the end of the game was sweet in that Marmol put it inside, and he didn't have a chance at it since he was crowding the plate.
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Jul 1, 2007 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep
marquis was pounding him and jenkins inside all day long
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nasty!
First of all I think we should pencil Marmol in as our closer and see what he can do.  He's slaying the guys he's facing, his fastball seems to rise and reminds me somewhat of Vida Blue's.  Except of course Blue's fastball seemed to explode when it got to home...

Marquis was totally effective today when he needed to be - he hit his spots and suckered some Milwaukee batters on high fastballs.  The Riot should be starting at short tomorrow - it's great to see guys like Theriot, DeRosa, Floyd and Fontenot competing for four spots.  Competition is a good thing and the Cubs are on the move!

Make something idiot-proof and the world will build a better idiot

by mastrick on Jul 1, 2007 8:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

people who say:
"jose reyes is the most exciting player in baseball" should really be banned from ever talking again.

I don't dispute that he's a good baseball player, but I'm about 753 times hearing that statement past  profusely annoyed.

Call me crazy, but the 10-20 players (including pitchers) who are better than Reyes excite me more. Watching the summer olympics for a couple weeks every four years is enough to satisfy my desire to watch people run fast.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Watching Pie Go Fast
is also exciting, but unfortunately he is not getting on base enough to justify starting everyday.  I hope he can work it out over the next two weeks and turn out to be a .275 type of hitter with occasional power.  That'd work for me.
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Jul 1, 2007 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he needs to be better
Any outfielder (even slick fielding center fielders) need an OPS over 800 at the very least. If Pie hits 275 with occasional power, I don't see him reaching that benchmark. Since you can probably assume that his isolated OBA will probably never be much more than .50, he'd need to slug at least .475 to reach that minimum OPS. "Occasional power" won't do it.

He needs to hit for a high average (.290+) or hit around 20 homers per year or some combination of both for me to be pleased with him.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm calling you
CRAZY.
Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank you
I clearly expressed a desire to be addressed as such, and it seemed like no one was willing to oblige.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On Bonds...
I am the kind of guy that believes in the "innocent until proven guilty" tenent of our Constitution.

There is much circumstancial evidence from accounts I have read that certainly point to Bonds cheating. He is not alone.

I have also not read the Grand Jury testimony, nor have any of you unless you happen to work for the U.S. Attorney's office in San Francisco, but until and unless it is released, we simply just all are speculating.

So, I also recognize that Barry Bonds is tremendously talented and has fought through knee injuries as well as incredible public scrutiny in order to be putting a very good season together.

Is he "the best player in the NL"? NOT in my opinion.

would I rather take "twenty guys" as someone said?

No. He'd be in my top ten. Still, he is a guy that ANY pitcher has to pitch around on every at bat which alters an ENTIRE GAME plan for an opponent. This fact is huge. There are only a few players in MLB that command this attention.

Think about it. Pujols, A-Rod, A-Ram, Manny, Big Papi, Vlad, Delgado?

And...Bonds.

However, to me "the best player in the NL" has to take into account an all around game and I'd have to say on the fielding/throwing side, he is not up to muster - nor are several of the above sluggers by definition.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 9:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

this is the subject of my post
"Think about it. Pujols, A-Rod, A-Ram, Manny, Big Papi, Vlad, Delgado?"

most of those guys aren't in the nl.

A-Rod HAS been a better player than bonds this year. Their OPS difference is small enough that A-Rod's more demanding defensive position puts him well over the top. We're talking exclusively NL, however.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree...
three of the seven mentioned ARE N.L.

The AL benefits from the DH with more AB's and more pure hitters.

HITTERS.

The following are also not too shabby hitters that I'd include as terrific players in the NL:

Todd Helton
Ryan Howard
Miguel Cabrera
Carlos Lee
Prince Fielder

Your argument that Bonds is the "best player in the NL" just doesn't hold water in the Mc Covey Cove, imo.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could Bonds be considered the best HITTER
in the N.L.?  Absolutely, I'm not arguing against Bonds being a great hitter and a powerhouse, but to say that he is the best PLAYER in the N.L., is, in my personal opinion, not correct.  He's old, injured, slow, a distraction, etc.

But Power, incredible hand-eye coordination, and a very quick bat are really the only things Bonds has going for him anymore.  Playing on a pretty bad team means that all this 'greatness' that he possesses doesn't translate into very many wins for his team.  And yes, I know, it's not his fault that his team sucks but the BEST PLAYER in the league would translate into more wins for his team (Considering their pitching staff has the 6th lowest ERA in the league at 3.80 and Bonds is an OFFENSIVE player)

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

unfortunately for you
my good pal, statistics, disagrees with you.

At any rate, I'm discussing this only in reference to a very specific case: the all star game. Influence over a single game is the only issue of importance operating in this scenario. I noticed you added "imo" to your post. Note that I don't do that, because opinion has nothing to do with my point. Personally, I think bonds is an uncompromising douchebag, but the statistical argument is pretty black and white. If you disagree with this assessment, then you either don't understand baseball and/or math, or you're letting your personal feelings about bonds cloud your judgment.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, unfortunately for you...
you lose on stats.

BONDS is NOT in top 5 in BA in NL this year

BONDS is not in top 5 in HR this year

BONDS is not in top 5 in RBI in NL this year (A-Ram has 45 to his 38)

He has 82 fucking walks in 192 PA. Which is almost 100 PA's LESS than Todd Helton. THUS explains his very high OBP and OPS in part.

And, he has the best part of software developers who like the Giants creatively stuffing ballot boxes.

Respectfully, you are full of shit on this argument.

Slant your stats how you like...he is not the "best player" in the NL this year. Just getting Bay Area votes.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From Bill James, Father of Sabremetrics
OPS/OBP are only PART of the evaluation:

OTM: When evaluating hitters, which stat do you think is the most important to be aware of? Which stat do you tend to look at the most to judge if a hitter is successful or not?

James: The trick is not to look at one stat, but to balance them all. I don't think there is anything in a hitter's record that you can ignore.

http://www.overthemonster.com/story/2005/7/25/11726/4777

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jul 2, 2007 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The happiest man in baseball
Tony La Russa.

Since the fans voted Mr. Bonds in, he didn't have to choose him. And, you know the media would have flamed him, saying 'you only did that because the game was in SF' even though, as pointed out earlier -- Bonds' numbers are OK, overall.

So, the fans, as a group -- get the flak, not TLR.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

anyone see
how Rocky Cherry hurt himself yesterday? ;)  He got hurt just in time to allow the Cubs to recalll Petrick after just one game down at Iowa. I was wondering what they would do before today's game to get another arm here when none of their reasonable minor leagures were eligible yet.  

by LuisSalazar on Jul 1, 2007 10:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I doubt Cherry is
actually hurt, unless he did so while walking from the parking lot to the clubhouse.

I believe this is Jim Hendry using the rule loopholes to keep Petrick around without really sending him down.

According to BB on today's telecast, Petrick NEVER went to Iowa, he just 'took the day off' at his parents' home in Morris. (Illinois)

The rules state if a player who plays the same position is hurt, a player of the same position (who was just sent down) can be 'immediately' recalled. The 10-day rule (or whatever # of days the rule states) is waived. Therefore, Petrick is...'back.' (Wow! Does that paragraph make any sense?)

I would assume this doesn't count against Petrick's 'options' either...but I don't claim to know the recall rules...

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You use up
one option a year, no matter how many times you get called up and down that season.

So Petrick has used one option.  They can call him up and down fifty times this season and it would still only be one option.

by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard about Petrick...
 and fell off the couch laughing. This stint on the DL for Cherry may be the lamest one that I've ever heard of.

by Damen Jackson on Jul 2, 2007 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no question about it....
but if you can get away with it, why not...

by LuisSalazar on Jul 2, 2007 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I took the EL on Friday with a several Brewer fans
and we had a great time and some excellent conversation.  I guess there are people on both sides that can't get along but I ran into no one before, during or after the game who was being a jerk fan.  It was a blast.  Too bad the few have to ruin it for the many.

BTW...40-40  .500 BALL!!  Need to go into the break a few above, though.

"Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho" ~Jean-Luc Godard

by Jettero2112 on Jul 1, 2007 10:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Marquis
I'm with you Al. I can't understand Lou's thinking, taking Marquis out after 77 pitches after the bullpen has been run ragged the last two days. What the hell does Lou have against a complete game now and then?
"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you're judging on incomplete information here
Oftentimes, when pitchers are lifted -seemingly- very early, there is some sort of internal cause, be it lack of energy, sore muscles/joints etc.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if something Marquis said in between innings got him lifted.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very possibly correct
However, Piniella said a few days ago he's trying to shorten the starting pitchers' outings. I don't think that makes a lot of sense, especially when the pen has been used so much lately.
"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did get a bat to the face earlier in the game..
And although he did great, he was getting hit more as the game progressed.

But I agree, I would of liked to see him pitch another inning, especially since he was coming up in the batting lineup again. Wouldn't of needed Marmol to hit.

Maybe Lou was testing Marmol too? Who knows.

by GoCubbies34 on Jul 1, 2007 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Complete games?
I'm sorry -- what?

That species is extinct.

Don Drysdale, Fergie Jenkins, Bob Gibson....our nation turns its' lonely eyes to you....

(apologies to Simon and Garfunkle)

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sadly
You are correct.

And those guys you mentioned must have some pretty good laughs at the joke that has become starting pitching in this era.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except for Drysdale
Who is dead at the current time.
"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody has talked
ON how Bonds made up 120,000 votes in 1 week.

Seriously.  How did this happen?

"You're fired." - Dallas Green to Billy Connors while Billy was staying in the hospital.

by jdoolsiu on Jul 2, 2007 12:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great finish to a great week!
The Cubs did exactly what they needed to do this week, in order to stay in this race.

Some quick hits from today's game:

  1. My seat was actually picked today for a prize... that was a first. The prize: a gift certificate for a dinner for two at the Buckinghams (Grand Victoria Casino in Elgin).
  2. Who was that putz who fell into the basket in the left field bleachers... trying to get a ball thrown from Soriano?
  3. D-Lee driving in Theriot on a first pitch swing in the 3rd! Emphasis on the first pitch swing. I don't know if you all have noticed as much as I, but D-Lee has been so patient at the plate this year, that he very rarely swings at the first pitch. As a result over the last 6 weeks or so, I've seen pitchers adjust and throw a ton of first pitch strikes, right down the middle. D-Lee just stares at them. He's gotta counter adjust and start jumping on those meatballs, especially in RBI situations. That might be the best pitch he'll see in a count.  
  4. Marmol was HUGE today. I'm not even sure he threw a ball out of the zone in the 8th. Every pitch to my recollection was a called strike, swing and miss, or hit foul. He was hitting upwards of 94mph in the 8th. Then, when it got a little tense in the 9th, he reached back for a little more and hit 95 and 96mph. That's complemented by his off-speed, which slows down to 81-84mph. Great stuff!
1-RUN GAMES = 10-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 20-21 | updated on 7/1

by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 12:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh... just wanted to add
it was very disappointing to watch Hill and Marshall get absolutely shelled this weekend. Luckily for us, we won two out of three. But, I have to hand it to the Brewers very talented line-up, and good scouting. I can't say for sure that Hill and Marshall were just flat out ineffective. I really think the Brewers scouted them extraordinarily well.

Hill  threw 90+ pitches in 3 innings, and the large majority of them were strikes... with Milwaukee fouling off 30+. They hit 29 foul balls in the first two innings alone. Wow. They were all over him. And there was an inning in his start vs Milwaukee at home earlier in the year on a rainy night where they jumped all over him, as if they knew what was coming.

Can't say as much for Marshall, as I only listened to that one on the radio... in the background of a fun afternoon at the beach. But, I suspect the BrewCrew are scouting very well.  

1-RUN GAMES = 10-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 20-21 | updated on 7/1

by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Changing Rotation
One thought about this --
Marshall and Hill are very similar -- Hill a bit quicker with more strikeouts.
Why not put someone in between? -- probably Z if Lou decides to move him up a day before the break if he has a chance to pitch in the AS game. Even if he doesn't do it this week, do it right after the break.
You face Hill one day -- get used to the slow breaking stuff and the next day the same kind of approach with Marshall.
Sure it showed up with the good hitting team that the Brewers have but it certainly can happen again even with poorer teams.
Just an idea --

by ceegeewow on Jul 2, 2007 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, with 3 lefties in the rotation
No matter what, two of them are gonna go back-to-back.

I'd much rather it be Hill and Marshall that go back-to-back than Hill and Lilly. Of the 3. Hill and Lilly are more similar in my opinion.  

1-RUN GAMES = 10-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 20-21 | updated on 7/1

by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Brew Crew
destroy LHP. They're 18-10 vs LHP. It's not surprising they treated both of them poorly. I hope Lou notices that and tries to adjust our rotation to have both only 1 LHP start against them the next time around.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jul 2, 2007 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I fell asleep on the couch.....
and awoke thinking of the 7th inning with Marmol, the 8th with Dempster, and the 9th with Gagne. Can this actually happen? If not, please stop talkin about it, cuz its keeping me up. It is such a glorious notion, but wha the hell do we have that they want?

by louslovechild on Jul 2, 2007 12:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Rotation Order.....
should definitely be tweeked by Lou over the All Star Break. If at all possible, Z or Marquis should be put between Marshall and Hill.

by cubrandy on Jul 2, 2007 1:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 2, 2007 4:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but...
...then at least one of them is up against Lilly, right?
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jul 2, 2007 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
but i'd rather have lilly facing the brewers than hill or marshall again. they were right on hill and marshall's pitches. i think lilly's enough of a crafty veteran to change things up. hill and marshall still seem to be giving something away and that coupled with their eerily similar styles means lou needs to split them up in the rotation, IMO.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

weight gain
During the televised games, interesting shots were provided of Prince Fielder from earlier this seasan.  That man has put on few pounds since the onset of play this year.  When does Yost pull the plug on cheeseburgers??  I can see a groin strain in that man's future.

by Cajuncub on Jul 2, 2007 7:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Some of that is...
... inherited, as Prince's dad Cecil was also a big man.

I suspect it won't be too long before Prince has to be dealt to an AL team so he can be a fulltime DH.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 2, 2007 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm thinking
a big chunk of the current brewers team is going to be gone soon. there's no way they can afford the salaries that weeks, hardy, braun, fielder, hart, hall, gallardo, sheets, cordero, and turnbow are going to command. without knowing how close any of these guys are close to arbitration and/or walk years, that's going to be a very expensive groups to keep together and i don't see how a small-market team pulls it off. it's wierd to say that a team that young is in a "win now" situation, but i think they have a very small window with this current group.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They could try...
... something like what the Indians did in the early 90's with Lofton, Belle, etc. -- try to lock them up to below-market contracts before they hit free agency.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 2, 2007 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This current Brewers
team reminds me a little of those Indians teams. It will be interesting to see how and who the Brewers are able to hold onto.
It's good to see teams in the NL Central grow talent and win. For all of the Cubs off season moves, some of our most valuable pieces this first half have been from our farm system.
It makes for a promising and competitive division in the future. Much like the AL Central has become with the Twins/Indians/Tigers and even White Sox.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should eventually deal Fielder
Cause the man can't field. Quite ironic.  

If I were Milwaukee, I'd move him sometime after this season. Enjoy his services for this division run... then get peak value for him, and send him to the AL where he can DH like his dad.

They dealt Richie Sexson, and brought in Overbay. Now, they have Fielder. They keep seeming to find 1st baseman who can hit.

1-RUN GAMES = 10-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 20-21 | updated on 7/1

by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point
They always do seem to find power at the 1B position. (Why is that?!) Moving Fielder makes sense in the long term, but I don't see it happening until they can't afford him. He brings national exposure to a small market team. Granted so does a winning record.
He will eventually end up in the AL, but moving him too early might be detrimental to the Brewers both on and off the field.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's true
but what about moving a guy while his value is at its peak?
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
Who knows... he might get fatter, slower, and hit less?

I don't know how many years are left on his contract, which is like $350,000 a year. But, he's gonna want a new deal after this year. They should move him to the AL to a team willing to give him the dough, and get a boatload in return.

1-RUN GAMES = 10-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 20-21 | updated on 7/1

by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: "Competitive division in the future"
True, if they widdle divisions down to 2 or 3 team divisions.  The Bucs and the Reds don't seem to have much.  Some pitchers maybe but they don't strike me as teams of the future.
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 2, 2007 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True that the
division is only 2 teams this year, but the Cardinals and Astros have been good in the last couple of years. They also have some good young talent, or at least potential talent.
I know that this year the NL Central isn't a good example of a competitive division, but anytime 3 or 4 teams are one or two moves away from contending for the division title, you are going to have a competitive division. Not necessarily a strong division, but competitive none the less.
I agree that he Bucs and Reds seem beyond hope for the foreseeable future.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that might work
but i think if you look at the role the MLBPA is playing in the whole Buerhle rigmarole, i don't think the brewers could get away with something like that, plus, to get that many young players all to bite the bullet and take below-market contracts is a tall order. moreover, if you sign fielder to a long-term deal, you have realize, his defense will probably only get worse, as guy his size, while they hit A TON, do not age well, a la his dad, kevin mitchell, ron kittle, and mike lavalliere. okay, that last one was a joke, but i hope you  see my point. i think the brewers are just in really strange win now pickle with a vry young team. might provide a convincing argument for a salary cap...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is strange to
see such a young team in a "win now pickle." Personally, I would try to move him ASAP. For all the reasons stated above, I just don't see the Brewers moving him until they have to. It would be hard to convince the Brew Crew faithful that Fielder has to be traded at the peak of his market value, especially if he has a couple of  productive years in his new AL home.
It will be very interesting to see who the Brewers decide to resign and who they let go. You're right, there is no way that many young guys will resign for at or below market value.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Brewers fan pipes up
I think we have some time before that window starts to close in earnest and Doug Melvin has to figure out whom to sign to a long-term deal.  Although that day is coming, most of our young players are under our control for the next few years.  Not the whole group, mind you: CoCo's contract is up after this season, and I believe Ben's is up next year.

We have started to do what the Indians did: last season we bought out Bill Hall for four years for less than market value.  He's off last year's offensive totals, unfortunately, but he's also learning a new position; hopefully, the old Bill Hall will come around in the second half.

It's funny you mentioned Fielder: when he was progressing through the minors, there was much discussion about where he should play.  At the time, it was his defense that led people to think, maybe he should be a DH.  Although he'll probably end up there by the end of his career, I bet we'll be willing to absorb any errors at first and the fat jokes to keep his bat in the lineup over the next 5-10 years.

by roguejim on Jul 3, 2007 6:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
He's not long as a position player. Frank Thomas should sit him down and explain the ravages likely to be visited upon his knees in the next couple years.

by SouthsideCub on Jul 2, 2007 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brewer Fans...
Come on.  Most of them are Packer fans.

Enough said.

PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Jul 2, 2007 10:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

When Dempster comes back ...
The Cubs will probably put Marmol in an eighth-inning role. I like that actually. Has there been a reliable 8-9 combo since Farnsy-JoeBo in 2003?
If Dempster struggles when he comes back, you can always flip-flop them.

by rob9802 on Jul 2, 2007 11:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

....or move...
Dempster into the rotation...and try Marshall/Marmol as 8-9 "nasty boys".....
The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 2, 2007 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
dempster has always been horrid as a starter and marshall is wasted in the bullpen. once marshall gets his tuff right, he's got the easy kind of motin that can give a team 200+ IP a year. no, no, no, no. leave demp in the pen, use marmol as the closer when demp's gone 2 days in a row, otherwise, he and howry split set-up duty.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 3, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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