Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jerry Sandusky's Wife Tries To Run A Reporter Over

Bad Ohman

On a hot, sweaty afternoon at Wrigley Field, it appeared for a few innings that the Cubs were going to pull another miraculous comeback, and I was all ready to give props to the bullpen for keeping the Phillies down after Sean Marshall stunk it up today, giving up seven runs in less than three innings.

Unfortunately, Will Ohman was "Bad" Ohman today, getting smacked around in his inning of work, and the three runs the Phillies scored put the game away, resulting in a 10-6 Cubs loss; the good news is, the Cubs continue to hold first place in the NL Central by percentage points, because the Mets annihilated the Brewers 12-4 this afternoon, a game that featured not only an inside-the-park HR, but also an RBI double by a relief pitcher, and a near-fight in the Brewers' dugout between manager Ned Yost and catcher Johnny Estrada.

And, the Cardinals blew a 3-0 lead and lost in extra innings to the Pirates, so the Cubs maintain a six-game lead over St. Louis.

Sean Marshall was just bad today -- from the opening inning, despite getting the first two men out and allowing only one run, he got hit hard that inning, again in the second; a HR, double and single. Then he committed the nearly unpardonable sin of walking pitcher Adam Eaton, who was batting for Phillies pitcher Kyle Lohse. Lohse had hit two batters and walked Mike Fontenot with the bases loaded, tying the game at 1, and then left with an unspecified injury. Eaton's a decent hitter (.197 lifetime with 14 doubles in 299 career AB) but to walk him? Jayson Werth and Tadahito Iguchi then drove in runs, and when Marshall got pounded around in the third, Lou had seen enough.

Even at 7-1, I thought that since it was only the third inning, the air was sticky and steamy (conducive to long fly balls), and the wind gently blowing out to RF, that maybe the Cubs could come back if the bullpen could hold the Phillies.

And they did so -- Rocky Cherry, Scott Eyre and Michael Wuertz combined for 4.1 innings of two-hit shutout ball, and the Cubs pecked away, scoring two in the third, one in the fourth, and one in the 8th, and when Mark DeRosa batted for Wuertz with two out and a run in in the 8th, the tying run was in scoring position. DeRosa nearly took advantage of the capricious breeze, which had just died down a bit, but his long fly ball to right was caught on the warning track.

And then Ohman helped the Phillies put the game out of reach. Props especially to Cherry -- who may be sent back to Iowa tomorrow to make room for Kerry Wood on the active roster, although there's some talk that the Cubs may go with 13 pitchers for the next 10 days until the next day off on August 13, which would mean that, perhaps, Ronny Cedeno or Matt Murton might get sent down, although Murton contributed to the not-quite-good-enough comeback with a pinch-hit RBI single in the fifth. Eyre, as he did last night, threw a competent inning of relief, striking out two and lowering his ERA to 5.55 (that may not sound great, but as recently as June 30 it was a Boeing number, 7.07), and if he keeps this up, it's almost like acquiring a good lefthander at the deadline. Since July 4 Eyre has thrown 7.2 innings, allowed three hits and no runs, walked seven and struck out seven. Keep up the good work!

And give the Phillies credit -- this is a good team that's in contention in its division and in the wild card race, too, and though after going up 2-1 in the series you want to take three of four, there is no shame in splitting with these guys. With nine teams within six games of each other (from the 61-47 Mets to the 54-52 Rockies), there's not much to differentiate any or all of them. All of them have strengths; all of them have flaws, including the Cubs.

Today, my college buddy Tom, who grew up on Long Island as a Mets fan, joined us and will be staying through the weekend to see his team, as he does nearly every summer. He tried to get Jeff, Howard and me to give him a chorus of "Let's Go Mets!", as we have spent the week rooting for the Mets and Cardinals (feels sort of unclean, doesn't it?), but we only gave him a couple of weak little chants before we stopped. He did root hard for the Cubs today, I should let you know, but this weekend all of that changes. You should also know that he very much fears having his team have to face Z tomorrow.

The crowd of 40,988 made the four-game series total 163,727, which broke the club record for a four-game series, 161,374, set... two weeks ago when the Giants were in town. That brings the season attendance total to 2,194,882 in 55 dates, an average of 39,907. If that average is maintained for the rest of the season -- a distinct possibility -- total attendance would be 3,232,463, which would break the club record of 3,170,154 set in 2004.

It's fun to go to the ballpark and watch winning baseball -- even fun today in a loss, because the ballclub did rouse a comeback which fell short. You can tell they're out there working hard and trying every single day. Onward to tomorrow and let's BEAT those Mets.

Comment 83 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I cannot STAND
OH-MAN!

I suppose, when used against ONE, or TWO lefties (and really NO MORE), and Lefties only, he is adequete.

But I have NEVER been able to have confidence in him as a fan.

I assume I am not alone in these feelings...

Really, Al, you hit it on the head that a split with the Phillies is not such a bad thing here. They have the #1 offense in the NL and a couple decent starters - BUT even though Kyle Lohse is INVINCIBLE - we should have kicked him around more when he was in trouble.

Our lack of HR hitting, too, is very perplexing.

Let's HOPE we get some awesome starting pitching this weekend.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 2, 2007 6:25 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't even think that his name is Ohman
That's just what everyone says when he comes on to pitch.

I hope he's sent down or something, because he's quickly becoming the weak link in the bullpen. Scott Eyre's been regaining his confidence and Lou's trust, Bob Howry pitched well in the closer position while Dempster was out, and even Rocky Cherry pitched well today.

It's honestly frustrating.

Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

by Keith on Aug 2, 2007 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ohman
just had a bad day, everyone is entitled to one once in awhile, get over it.

by tizzle on Aug 2, 2007 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't you get it?
Nobody on the Cubs is ever, EVER entitled to having a bad day. Not a one.

Anything less than 162-0 is a disappointment.

You can tell the longtime fans here from the ones who hopped on the bandwagon in 2003.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2007 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

They just
said Marshall scratched his cornea Wed. morning but decided to try it today any way. He went straight to the eye Dr. after he was done today.

I have faith they will come back strong tomorrow.

I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 2, 2007 6:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Uhm...
...I really don't know what to say to this. Wow. So they KNEW that this could happen, and they didn't do something to reinforce the bullpen?
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 2, 2007 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or, better yet...
... sent Cherry down (since he was likely going down anyway tomorrow) and recalled Gallagher to start?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 2, 2007 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

so
is guzman totally out of the picture or what

by tbizzle83 on Aug 2, 2007 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

60 day dl
for Guz, as I recall

he is a young Wood/Prior

a lot of talent and always injured

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 2, 2007 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

No worries
The St. Louis Ferret Fondlers lost, as did the Brewers.

No harm, no foul.

And yeah, Dartmouth, I overestimated the guts and courage of the St. Louis Puppy Kickers.

by lancaster99 on Aug 2, 2007 6:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Here's the deal.
You might think it funny to call the Cardinals "Puppy Kickers".

I don't.

I want the Cubs to beat them every time we play them. But there's no place for this sort of language on this site. Period.

Knock it off.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 2, 2007 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ferret Fondlers?
that don't fly here?

what about if I call them the St. Louis Ninnymuggins?

by Chad @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 2, 2007 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um...
I've seen 'fuck' and some derivatives of it on this site without a warning. Why is 'puppy kickers' so bad?

by Rynot @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 3, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mets are a good team (ask the Brewers)
I hope we can stay hot - and take 2 of 3.
Ryne Sandberg Game, June 23, 1984, he was 5 for 6, 7 RBI's

by mweil on Aug 2, 2007 6:48 PM CDT reply actions  

We are in first place
Big Z starts tomorrow.

It's August.

Three sweet sweet sentences that combine together to create a wonderful feeling.

by IllinoisCubs on Aug 2, 2007 6:52 PM CDT reply actions  

Bullpen Shape?
Is it just Marmol, Howry and Dempster only available for tomorrow?  Not that those 3 are a bad crew to have, but the Phillies have gone through some of the Cubs relief corps.  It did not look like the Mets had to stretch out their relievers too much against the Brewskis.
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Aug 2, 2007 6:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Marmol, Howry, Dempster...
... and Kerry Wood.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 2, 2007 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep...
Wood's getting called up tomorrow.
Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

by Keith on Aug 2, 2007 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

40 Man Roster
What I want to know is not just how the Cubs will make room on the 25 man roster, but on the 40.  The only possibilities I see are moving Henry Blanco (on the DL since June 1st) or Angel Guzman (on the DL retroactively since June 2nd) to the 60 day DL.  They really wouldn't DFA Cherry...would they?
Neifi, we hardly knew ye.

by Krande on Aug 2, 2007 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course Cherry won't be DFA'd.
Blanco is likely to go on the 60-day DL, as it appears he won't be back anytime soon. That makes things pretty easy.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 2, 2007 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sigh.
In the immortal words of Gir, "I'm gonna sing the doom song!"
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 2, 2007 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Oh my goodness gracious!"
If only we had Suzyn Waldman doing radio:

"Of all the dramatic things I have ever seen, KERRY WOOD IS SITTING IN LOU'S DUGOUT!! KERRY WOOD IS BACK!! HE IS A CHICAGO CUB!!"

"And heeeere cooome the pretzels!"

by NightPutting on Aug 2, 2007 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

A split ain't bad
considering none of our four starting pitchers in this series pitched well at all. I hated to see Ohman in there in the 9th today, but with so many games in a row coming up, I guess he had to use him sometime.

by qccub on Aug 2, 2007 6:58 PM CDT reply actions  

I think Lou is doing a good job spacing
out the bullpen guys in spite of the short innings of work out of the starters.  Finishing with Ohman was the chance he took today but it sets the pen up with his best horses for Fri/Sat and with his #1/#2 starters going too.    I know thi ssometimes means we blow a game late, but so be it.

Ned Yost beats the crap out of his two big bullpen arms and he is starting to pay the price, IMO.

Maybe we can get lucky and get 7-8 innings from Z and Lilly the next two days and send Glavine home on Sunday still one win short of 300.

Soriano: rub two of those big bats together and you will catch fire!

by LAcarl519 on Aug 2, 2007 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I posted this during the game thread
But even though 70's night was a few days ago...this seemed more like a game right-out-of the 70s! It was always hot, humid and windy(Except for April) and the Cubs not-so-good pitching staff of that era saw many games like this -- fall behind, come back, fall behind....

The 1979 Philies/Cubs slug fest was referenced, and that game did so much to give Wrigley it's "hitter's park" designation to the masses -- a monicker it no longer deserves, really -- that today I was flashing back to my early teens and I expected Bob Bell and the Three Stooges to follow the game immediately 'on Channel 9!' (in B&W, of course)

This was a throwback game -- the park and the conditions seem to rarely come together like this any more. Since the wind seems to blow in about 75% of the time now -- hot, humid, with gale force winds blowing out towards Waveland Ave. are the exception, not the rule.

If current weather conditions existed THEN as they do NOW, Dave Kingman would never had the HR totals he scored as a Cub.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 2, 2007 7:20 PM CDT reply actions  

In some ways it was...
... in others, not. There was only one home run today. In those wacky, windy '70s games, there were generally multiple home runs.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 2, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Texiera move seems to be paying
off for the Braves so far. They may be the team to beat now in the East. All the more reason we need to take at least two out of three from the Mets.

by LT on Aug 2, 2007 8:04 PM CDT reply actions  

While I hope we sweep the MF Mets...
I can't wait until monday, as I will be in Section 212, Row 1 at Minute Maid Park on monday :)
Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Aug 2, 2007 8:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Talk about SWEATING!
It is 90, and 80% humidity in Chicago.

They wear sweaters on days like that in Houston.

UGH!

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 2, 2007 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's a little heat!
I was fortunate to be in Chicago for the July 13, 14 & 15 sweep of the Astros, and the weather couldn't have been better.  I'll be at the game next Wednesday hoping to see the completion of another sweep by the Cubs.  Being hot at the ballpark beats air conditioning at the office.

by tex on Aug 2, 2007 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree...
I'll gladly trade a seat in my air-conditioned office for a spot with the bleacher bums tomorrow. Oh, and at least one Old Style. Go Cubs!
"High...pop fly...wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth!" -Harry Caray

by riggs on Aug 2, 2007 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I concur
And wholeheartedly endorse this statement.  Air conditioned baseball sucks - even with the houston heat, I would rather be outside....
Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Aug 2, 2007 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now that we're on 1st place...
I found this article from SI about the non-existent curse and a bad catcher we once had. I say there's no curse, only a lousy pitchers' handler.

http://fannation.com/blogs/post/49053

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 2, 2007 9:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Oh, man!
Yes, Ohmsn sucked today and Marshall had no vision (and consequently, no accuracy), according to recent reports. But we didn't lose any ground to the opposition in the NL Central. Lou did well by bringing Ohman in when he did. There was no guarantee that we would've scored another run in the 9th and the bullpen is now set for the series against the Mets, after 2 consecutive games of heavy use of the relievers.

If the Cubs are going to carry 13 pitchers, as Lou intimated, who should be sent down, in your opinion, Al? Cedeño? Fontenot? Murton? Pagán? Cherry to make space for Gallagher?

Finally, Al, the lack of home runs has been repeatedly attributed to the fact that the wind is not blowing out to the outfield as often as it used to in years past. Why? Has it been a colder than usual summer in Chicago? Or do the remodeled bleachers have something to do with it? What do you think, Al and readers from the Windy City?

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 2, 2007 9:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Weird year for weather
I can't see that the rebuild of the bleachers changed anything that would affect the wind.  This has been one unusual year from a weather standpoint.  I went to two of the games v the Rangers in Arlington, where in June it is usually hot as hades, and I was quite comfortable.  Unfortunately we lost both games and Sammy got his 600 HR against us.  We have had so much rain in central Texas this summer that people are complaining.  In my 57+ years I can't remember the Brazos ever being this high in the summer, and I never before heard anyone complain about rain in July or August.

by tex on Aug 2, 2007 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

In my opinion...
... the larger bleacher structure HAS had a minor effect on some balls that otherwise would have been held back on days the wind is blowing in.

I don't have specific incidents in mind, but it's my recollection that over the year and a half it's been in place, perhaps two or three balls that would have been knocked down by the wind before, went out as HR.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2007 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow.
I was at all 3 games against the Rangers and thought it was hot as hell.

by jshipp on Aug 3, 2007 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cherry is the likely candidate...
...to be sent down for Wood anyway. The only other guys in the bullpen with options are Marmol and Wuertz, if I recall. So lord knows how we'd add a long reliever into the mix without either sending down Michael Wuertz or going to 13 - and it'd be one of Murton/Cedeno/Fontenot to go down to achieve that, unless Lou decides he doesn't need a backup center fielder.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 2, 2007 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just the lowlights of todays game
and the double between Sori and JJ almost hit JJ in the shoulder and hit on the dirt and off the wall.  Could've been caught by either and should've been caught by JJ.  Man our OF defense blows!

by Itchy on Aug 2, 2007 10:19 PM CDT reply actions  

BUT, MANAGEMENT
and bcb readers KNEW this already before the season started.

Truly the weak part of the team.

That, and the fact that our catchers cannot throw out me!

Just wait until Reyes et. al. try to steal!

Free pass every time...

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 2, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey look, Eman's whining again.

 How's that bet going where you thought the  Cubs wouldn't even reach .500? Pay that one up yet? Even acknowledge it? Whatever.

   I too am growing weary of Jacque Jones' "I'll take Lake Shore Drive" routes to fly balls. But he hasgood makeup speed, he's really trying, andwereally don'thave better options until lou has confidence in Felix's at bats.

  TRy and crack a smile if you can......please. It's nice out.

"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns

by yahoodi on Aug 2, 2007 10:43 PM CDT reply actions  

If you visited
the board, and spoke up more than once a month, you would see that I admitted that I HOPE to pay up and would gladly double my payment to Cubs Care. I have no problem admitting I was wrong (IF I am wrong) nor eating Crow.

I also realize, as should you, that the season is 60 days from being over -

When I made the bet (with SCOTT) I believed that a losing culture had permeated the players. They HAVE admitted as such in interviews if you have been reading them, or are local and are able to get local feeds on CSN.

To Lou's credit, at THIS moment, he has helped to instill a winning attitude - which I have gladly stepped up to the Crow Bar and feasted. I hope it will continue - August and September are shaping up to be a wild ride.

However, when I mention a FACT that our catchers cannot throw out anyone, and you say its "whining", it shows how little you know about how the players are actually performing.

Jason Kendall, who has been actually contributing catching, game calling, and even with a nice couple of hits (and rbi) lately, has a 0% CS with the new team. He is 0-Cubs. You may have seen a difference in the Phillie's catcher who gunned down Sori with a great throw today, who would have scored on the subsequent hit. Koyie Hill - with his .145 BA, also has a very poor CS% for a starting MLB catcher.

And, when I mention this, YOU call this whining. This is an example of the Old-School Cub fan, imo, where mediocrity is acceptable - or less - as long as the team is "winning".

It is turning a blind eye to things that need improvement in order for the team to reach the ultimate goal that I personally have which is a World Series Championship.

You will see this weekend, when the Mets get their first two batters on base, how effective it is and the problems that ensue when the catcher cannot nail a runner out with an accurate throw.

They turn into runs! Certainly, the pitcher's delivery has quite a bit to do with this - however, there are catchers who get the job done - including our own Hank White who we will not be seeing for a while, unfortunately.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 2, 2007 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

What you call a FACT
I call an opinion.  (And I don't capitalize it either, because I realize that typing something in all caps doesn't make it so.)

Here is a fact.  On June 2, you wrote:

the CUBS need to go about 61-52 to even reach .500.

What, in recent history, would indicate to you eternal Cubbie Optimists that this current team could replicate the Houston Astro team of a few years ago who fired their manager and had Roger Clemens, Andy Petitte, and Roy Oswalt - I think even Wade Miller in his prime (when he could actually pitch) was on this come-from-behind team.

Would you please get a clue and start studying Cubs baseball and understand that the relief staff has lost 15 games??!! 15! And its the beginning of JUNE!!!!

WTF are you SMOKING?

As I and several others have been saying since the West Coast road trip. ITS OVER!!!

YES. Indeed! On the bright side, as I said a couple days ago, we lasted a couple more weeks than last year before the white flag is raised, so there certainly is progress.

AL - when will you finally throw in the towel THIS year?

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/comments/2007/6/2/165718/8487/15#15

Why should anyone believe a word you say after you wrote that?  You're like the Bush administration:  "Yeah, I know we said Iraq would go great before, but this time we really mean it!"

Go away.  You're comments are predictable and tiresome.  The Cubs may not win anything this season.  But you sure as hell don't know that.

by Josh Timmers on Aug 2, 2007 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would say "You go Away"
except you did already! You do not even live here. Fuck LA.! It is not even a City. Can't even hold on to an NFL team. HA! And, the baseball fans wait an hour to get into the parking lot (coming in the 4th inning) and then leave in the 7th inning. Great place, Josh. You are perfect for it.

Yes - I did write it and I am wrong so far. WRONG! I WAS FRUSTRATED and Could not poissibly see signs of life! And I have admitted such on several occasions. I have certainly admitted this, but the season is still not over. There is plenty of baseball left to be played.

However, a 0% CS effort by the catchers and the rest of the items I  mentioned I have not made up Josh. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ME or Bush! But I do not HIDE stats - they are there for all to see.

So continue in your bubble - statististics are what Lou himself believes in mostly. He has said this before.

And, when you're sitting in traffic on the 405 Saturday waiting to go 10 miles in an hour, I'll be at the Cubs game sitting in my seats and will be riding my bike there.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 2, 2007 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

And once again
You can't respond with a reasoned argument, but rather respond with personal attacks.  I feel very, very sorry for you.

And I haven't been on the 405 in over two years as I no longer live in LA but have never bothered to change my screenname.  So your insults are terribly, terribly, off.  I do live in Southern California for another ten days.

And the 405 doesn't go anywhere near Dodger or Angels Stadium, so you might want to check a map.  (I do notice that you know enough to call it "the" 405 like a true Southern Californian rather than I-405 like a Midwestern would.  Hmm, I wonder why you do that?)

Oh and by the way, don't bother insulting LA to a Los Angeleno.  They do it better than any outsider ever possibly could.

by Josh Timmers on Aug 3, 2007 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I always enjoyed how the 405...
...would suddenly, without warning, merge with the 5 when you go south toward San Diego. Late at night, when you're in the far left lane, it can be VERY difficult to realize that four additional lanes of traffic have been added to your far right. Especially when its your first time traveling there and you're desperately looking for the exit back to the 5. Fun times!
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 3, 2007 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

After thinking about this
overnight - I am in the wrong. I acted out of anger and apologize. Having had my heart broken so many times by this team that I have been following so many years, this year having just experienced tremendous disappointments in 2004, 2005, and 2006, with the team going into a 9-11 losing streak, I felt there was no way (based on past experience) that the Cubs could turn it around. I really should have just kept my mouth shut. Oy. But the frustration boiled over...

What I have learned is not only am I wrong to date, but that baseball EVEN for the Cubs is a 162 game season. This is a grudgingly good lesson and important for me.

I really had not seen - or do not remember - the Cubbies coming from so far behind - ever. It is a first (again, in my recent memory). I am astounded and am happy to eat Crow.

So if you do not want to accept my apology, that is o.k. - but I felt as if I wanted to address this.

And, I lived in LA - so know all about it. Yes there are bicycles in use there - I had one myself - but unless you live in Santa Monica, Venice, Marina del Rey, or a housing development, I wouldn't recommend using one on city streets.

 

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 3, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

And what rough beast, its hour come round...
...at last, slouches toward a box score to be aggravating?

I am going to start off by saying this, in the point of fairness: in broad strokes you're absolutely correct; the Cubs catching corps is so wildly and unnecessarily below replacement level in all phases of the game that it's like watching Brian Cashman stumble around with the game's largest payroll and a stack of nice prospects and nobody even remotely worthy of playing first place. It's fundamentally embarrassing on many counts.

But -- and this really is the punchline -- it absolutely does not matter. Your arguement rests entirely on a flawed representation of an incomplete method of measuring worth. You leave the pitcher's contribution to base stealing completely out of the equation. You fail to look at the run value of a stolen base and compare it to Kendall's other attributes. You completely ignore the notion that some catchers get tested more than others, and why this could happen. And there's a whole host of other reasons that simply counting up "caught stealings" is at best an incomplete measure of a catcher's impact on the running game.

Looking through your history on this board, it's pretty obvious that your devotion to statistical analysis of baseball is tepid at best. You seem to dart wildly from conclusion to conclusion. The notion of "sample size" seems lost on you.

If you would like to attempt to insult me in return, that's fine. I doubt it convinced many people of your point when you did it to Josh.

But let me just close with this: baseball is a game where it's very convenient to measure a lot of different things, often with numbers. Not all of these are meaningful, and many of the ones that are meaningful need to have the noise sifted away before you can discern what they really mean. It's like putting your hand on an elephant's trunk while blindfolded and trying to figure out what it is. It's not a worthwhile endeavour.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 3, 2007 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

A Yeats
reference! Nice.

I appreciate your pointing out the role of the pitcher in stolen bases. None of the Cub starters has a plus pickoff move. Hill's is a balk, plain and simple; Marshall's is nearly non existent. Lilly, Zambrano, and Marquis have a serviceable, but not great move. None of them pay attention to runners nearly as close as they should. Our pitchers are not doing our catchers any favors when it comes to throwing out basestealers. How many time have we seen no-throw SB's? More than I care to recount here. This is definitely one area where all of our pitchers could use some extra work.

"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 3, 2007 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I Live In L.A. As Well.....
.... and grew up in Chicago. What you think you know about Los Angeles approximates your devotion to a single point of view and sticking to it. Ad hominem attacks because you got caught with your pants down don't make you any more appealing.

Both cities are great places to live. You can  ride your bike around L.A. as well, and maybe even drive a car, if you ever get your license back.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Aug 3, 2007 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Josh in LA, you are my hero.
"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns

by yahoodi on Aug 2, 2007 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right, the Phillies really are good
I too was impressed with the Phils - they have an incredibly talented lineup, seems like everyone's a threat. In particular, Jimmy Rollins really impressed me. Seemed like he was always on base, hitting the ball hard and making great plays at SS.

And of course the lineup didn't include Utley, their most dangerous of all.

I still think the Cubs are better overall because of pitching staff depth, but if they make the playoffs they could do some damage.

"I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm pretty sure you don't either." -David Letterman to Bill O'Reilly

by hipster17 on Aug 2, 2007 10:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Interesting also
as they had a horrendous start. IIRC, there was talk of Manuel losing his job early in the season.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Aug 2, 2007 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

13 Pitchers ??
He really has to be kidding -- 13 pitchers.
The reason we run into problems is the lack of a long man in the pen. Len and Bob pointed that out this afternoon. All of the guys currently in the pen are 1 and 2 inning guys.
If that is the case, then bring up Gallagher to fill that role.
References to the "good" and "bad" Ohman strike at the heart of the problem. Get rid of the guy!!
If he is lousy every 1 out of 3 appearances, that is too much. And we all know that he has been worse than that.
He and Eyre have been like twins all season. They can't get a breaking ball over the plate and then they have to come in with their fastball which have no movement. That's when the trouble begins.
There has to be a solution other than adding another pitcher. Our bench options are thin now -- how bad will it get.
One other thing -- ever since we committed to an outfield with JJ in center and Cliffy in right, I feared that sooner or later this tandem would rear its ugly head. The last four games showed me what I have been worrying about may be the start of something bad. JJ had a lot of trouble this series and we continue to see Cliff having trouble getting to anything that is anything other than a routine fly. Poor outfield defense is going to cost us some games and JJ's bat is not going to compensate for his fielding problems.
And if Cliff can't get to balls or beat out a grounder or two, there's a budding problem as well.
We probably need to see more of DeRosa in RF than Cliff even when we are facing righties. And we need to think about Pie again in CF with JJ back to the pines.
Sorry -- one more. Can anyone tell me why Soto is not a better option than Hill? Soto caught Marshall and Hill in the minors and several other guys in the pen. Even if he hits .240, he certainly would be a vast improvement over the less than .160 Hill.

by ceegeewow on Aug 2, 2007 10:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Soto...
is a better catcher than Hill but you don't want to waste his talent as a backup. Soto needs to play everyday so he'll be ready to catch regularly for the Cubs next year.

Eyre straightened out himself the past month. Ohman has been inconsistent, though.

Finally, Jones has improved as a hitter and has made some good plays in center field. But he's also made many horrible mistakes in CF too. Floyd has been hampered by small injuries and has not produced as expected. Both he and the power-less Jones may be declining rapidly as ballplayers. That's the club's major deficiency right now: lack of offensive production and power in two outfield positions.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 3, 2007 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree....
13 pitchers is ridiculous, and would leave Lou with absolutely no bench. I harp on this a lot, but I still cannot stand the "Tony LaRussa" theory that a major league relief pitcher is incapable of throwing more than 1 inning at a time. Now every other manager, Sweet Lou included, has bought into the theory lock, stock and barrel. 7 arms in the bullpen is sufficient. Really, an 11 man staff should be plenty, if the relievers were conditioned to go 2 or even "gasp" 3 innings from time to time.

by perseman on Aug 3, 2007 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not so much that...
they can't go more than one inning at a time, it's just that if they do go more than one inning then they're unavailable the next day.  Managers hate to leave their bullpen strapped like that by eliminating arms from availability.

by SouthernCub on Aug 3, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

That And
You've got to pinch hit for the pitcher late in the game when the score differential is -4 through +3.  That pitching spot is going to eventually come around in the order causing a few early exits as well.
There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Aug 3, 2007 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

i have a horrible feeling reyes is going
to have a field day with kendall/hill this weekend, if he gets on first it's pretty much a guarantee he will be at 3rd, so we're just going to have to keep him off base :)
Bring back the damn cowbell!

by CubsBall2202 on Aug 3, 2007 12:04 AM CDT reply actions  

i suggest dlee pull the old hidden ball trick.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Aug 3, 2007 3:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree.
He can't steal first... let's start there!

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 3, 2007 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've been thinking about that...
Imagine this scenario:

Batter has 2 strikes and few or no balls. He sees a wild pitch coming, and as it gets closer, he knows the catcher won't get it...so he swings and misses.

Then he trots down to first base.

Sure, it would be cheap, but it would be about the closest thing to stealing first, wouldn't it?

by HanOfTheBluegrass on Aug 3, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's a tough hypothetical...
There are very few pitches that are clearly going to be wild pitches.  Catchers block most balls in the dirt, and a ball thrown way overhead might bounce right back to the catcher for an easy out at 1B.  So swinging would be a big gamble, as it's very possible it guarantees you're out.

Also, Reyes is such a good hitter (and so willing to take a walk) that he'd rather take the ball and try to get a hit (or walk) on the next pitch.

I don't think most hitters would do this.  The chances of getting a hit or a walk on subsequent pitches are better than the chances of ending up on first by swinging at a potential wild pitch.

by SouthernCub on Aug 3, 2007 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

3, 4, 5 Starters ....
Yep, Oh Man didn't have it yesterday ....   BUT, he isn't really why we lost -- that blame falls squarely on Marshall.  Outside of Ohman's inning, the bullpen was awesome in holding down the Phils.  

Which brings us to our biggest problem, the back end of the rotation.  No amount of tinkering with the bullpen, the return of Kerry or the number of pitchers will make up for short outings by Marquis, Hill and Marshall.

In the short term, over the next couple of days, Z and Lilly can help the bullpen tremendously by pitching deep into their games.  Ultimately, however, numbers 3, 4, and 5 must give us more innings, and soon, or the bullpen will be in tatters down the stretch.

Sure, it's true that only 3 starters are needed in the playoffs.  Getting to the playoffs is another thing altogether, and the back end of this rotation had better eat up innings in these final eight weeks.

by wrigley1 on Aug 3, 2007 6:04 AM CDT reply actions  

pretty much dead-on
The Cubs are a very good team that could make the playoffs in a similar fashion to last year's Cardinals. But without one of the back-end starters improving, we could fall just short, too.

I don't think Marquis is ever going to be consistent. And Marshall, allowing for yesterday, has pitched as well as I could have hoped. I don't think he will pitch better than he already has.

I think a lot rests on Rich Hill. If he can finish the season the way he pitched from August '06-May '07 -- and assuming Lilly and Z keep it up -- I really like our chances. Otherwise, it's going to be a lot harder.

I said it at the deadline. The Cubs were one player -- either another bat or another starter -- away from being a great team. You don't have to be a great team to catch fire and win the series. But doing that is a lot easier when you are a great team.

BTW, I'm not usually one of the optimists on this site, but I can't tell you how excited I am that Kerry Wood is back. I know he won't change the team's fate, but I can't wait to see him take the mound this weekend.

by elgato on Aug 3, 2007 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lets hope
that the brewers fight doesnt get them going like the Z, barrett fight did for the cubs. If Yost gets kicked out of todays game, look out.

by Cubs fan on Aug 3, 2007 7:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Please
that wasn't a fight.  Nobody got there ass kicked like Barrett did (that's what I heard anyway).  That Brewer thing was nothing more than a heavy argument.  
PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Aug 3, 2007 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

13 Arms...
...doesn't necessarily mean as short bench as you might think over the short run. Marquis and Z are both preferable pinch-hitting alternatives  to whichever catcher does not start, and not bad in most cases.  DeRosa is ultra-flexible. Middle infielders can play most anywhere.
PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Aug 3, 2007 8:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Good call
If you go with 13 pitchers, you allow the relievers to remain somewhat fresh, and you only lose one bench player. Considering only Z has been able to get past the 6th inning recently, I think it's a good move.

I think I trust Marquis and Z with a bat, just as much as I do Cedeno, if not more so. Hell, I trust them both at shortstop, as I do Cedeno.

by SouthsideCub on Aug 3, 2007 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like a good poll question:
"Who would you rather see pinch hit in a critical situation:

A) Carlos Zambrano
B) Ronny Cedeno
C) Koyie Hill

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Aug 3, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually...
... I'd take Marquis. Z can hit, as shown by his 3-hit day vs. the Reds, but when he pinch-hits he appears to try to hit a 900-foot HR with every swing.

Marquis seems to approach pinch-hitting seriously; I'd trust him, absolutely, over whichever catcher doesn't start.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2007 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't Rusty use him as a pinch hitter sometimes.
I know I remember him pinch running more than a few times.

by HanOfTheBluegrass on Aug 3, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why don't we see
more of Pagan in the field?  I see no reason why he shouldn't be there against every left-handed starter.  Furthermore, as a switch-hitter, I would like to seem him over JJ in center against lefties too?  Why not give him regular playing time and put some more stock into him for the future?  I really don't see JJ having another "breakout year" ever again.

by Ryno8 on Aug 3, 2007 9:59 AM CDT reply actions  

I'd pencil in Pagán for Floyd, instead.
Jones bat is hot (really warm) nowadays, while Floyd's is cold. I's try the youngster in RF 2 or 3 times a week and take it from there.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 3, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I see what you mean
I just have very little faith in JJ, especially looking forward

by Ryno8 on Aug 3, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

About Sean Marshall...
......this Sun-Times article has Lou saying that Marshall "scratched the cornea in his right eye while he was sleeping Wednesday night."

First of all, can we safely add this to the historic list of bizarre Cubs injuries? Sammy's sneeze. Remlinger's La-Z-Boy pinky break. Howry's barbecue back strain. And I hope Sean Marshall isn't one of those people who sleeps with their eyes open, cuz that's just freaky.

On a more serious note, I take some comfort knowing Marshall was injured in this manner (uh, assuming the injury isn't serious and will have cleared up by his next start...any opthamalogists in the house?). It's hard to fault Marshall's control if he couldn't see the plate clearly. I guess Lou just took a calculated risk in sending Sean out there.

Brew Crew: We have arrived -- now step aside.

by daver on Aug 3, 2007 11:00 AM CDT reply actions  

Not an eye doctor
but I scratched my cornea in a pick-up game a month ago, and, while it hurt like hell, it took about 3 days for everything to get back to normal, with aid of some funky eye drops my eye doctor gave to me. It puts like this little film over your eyes, and you do it every 4-6 hours. It kills the pain, but you can't see right. If Marshall had that stuff in his eye, no wonder he threw poorly.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 3, 2007 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sean Marshall on the pre-game audio...
...says the cornea scratch didn't affect him. Maybe it's pride.
Brew Crew: We have arrived -- now step aside.

by daver on Aug 3, 2007 1:06 PM CDT reply actions  

As much as I hate reading this everyday...
Does anybody have a working audio link for today's game?  The channelsurfing.net one is playing... something else.
Soriano's Contract: Approximately one dollar for every pitch in the dirt he swings at

by Ryno8 on Aug 3, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Jazz Up Your Recs!
Img_0001_small
Value of Various Plate Approaches
284_small
Cubs' Fantasy Camp 2012 as seen by a Player's Wife
P7200073_small
Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp 2012

Recent FanPosts

Small
Arguably OT: Aussie Baseball Finals Go To Decisive Game Three
Small
New Cubs draft strategy player development
Jeffnewwork_small
What I Expect From The Cubs In 2012
Wrigley_scoreboard_small
What To Do With Alfonso Soriano
Small
A quick update from the 2012 concessions orientation
Caray_small
Is there any FA left worth going after?
Marvin_the_martian_small
Thoughts On Gerardo Concepcion: Trust The Scouts
Star_small
What if Hendry were still our GM instead of TheoJed?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Nice article about Ernie Banks
Yankees Hire Jim Hendry
Dale Sveum Meets Early Arrivals At Camp Buss

Recent FanShots

The Rickettsification of Wrigleyville has begun!
Marlins' Cespedes Offer 6 years, under $40M (MLBTR Link)
BCB Fantasy Baseball 2012
Former Cubs Blogger Interviewed on The Score
Cubs vs. Rangers In Las Vegas Tickets On Sale Monday 2/13
Hoyer driving to Spring Training with his dog
Hoyer-Soriano likely a Cub to start 2012, Garza extension talk a possibility
Law's Top 100 prospects
Ranking the Farm Systems
WGN Releases Season Schedule

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Featured Poll

Poll
How many games will the Cubs win in 2012?

  309 votes | Results

It Is Only...

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges


Managing Editor

Alyellontoppscard_small Al Yellon

Front Page Contributors

Primary_fc_small Josh Timmers

Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

Other Contributors

Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima

Toonmike_small Mike Bojanowski