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Warning, this is long, with lots of rambling, so if you are genuinely interested in the book, scroll to the bottom. :)

Star-divide

Well, as is no surprise, I am a baseball nut. Genuine, bona fide, authentic, old-fashioned, red-blooded, American baseball nut. I debate this to no end with people I know who insist baseball is a boring sport with absolutely no athletic value.

I hesitate to call them friends, because frankly, I have no friends who don't like baseball -- what's the point? It's like having friends that don't drink (which I do have friends like that) because I like them, they are genuinely nice people, but I always feel a little awkward having a beer around them until I get the first 8 or 10 down, and then it's a non-issue.

I digress though.

I have heard the arguments from these people that NFL players are more athletic, and that the sport of pro football is so much better. I have heard the argument that the NBA has a better product and that the athletes are much more talented. I have even had one co-worker try to tell me that MLS is a better game with much better athletes. I bludgeoned that guy to near-death with a lukewarm squash while singing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame".

I am always up for intellectual debate, and I am not always right. When someone has a better point, I will concede it and state my opinion on it. As Al eloquently signs on each post, it is my opinion and if you don't like it, I have others.

Football players are a special breed. You can be born with the gift of size and make a great living playing football. You may not be athletic or the brightest color in the Crayon box, but if you are naturally 6'6" and 315 pounds and can bench-press a single-wide trailer, then you can likely get a job in the NFL. If you have big hands and enjoy curling full kegs of beer in your spare time, you likely can start for a pro team.

Soccer players are no doubt, very athletic. I am not knocking soccer players, as they have an incredible amount of stamina and cardiovascular health, as do NBA players. The fellas in the NBA possess a certain amount of agility and raw talent to do what they do, and they have a skill unrivaled by other sports. But, most of them have to be tall to be considered. Talent can trump some of that, as evidenced by many short stars of the game past and present. Consider Spud Webb, Mugsy Bogues, John Stockton, and a plethora of others.

But baseball players come in all shapes and sizes. They hone their craft for several years in the farm system before they may even get a shot. There aren't any that come out of high school in the summer and go straight to the big leagues. There are some that could be close to it (Miguel Cabrera at age 20), but generally, baseball players are born with the ability and the talent, but must still refine their skill for a degree of time before they get the chance. Even at the big league level, the best can struggle, and even a smooth defensive player can not go out and consistently go 3-4 at the plate every night. Compound that with playing 5 to 6 games a week or more, and it becomes clear that these guys who play the game are skilled, talented, and physically blessed, and must maintain that for their career.

Again, I am not taking anything from other athletes in other sports, and I don't think any one is better than the other as they all put in a lot of time, sweat, and tears to be the best at their game. Personally, as a person who has been in a few scuffles at some of the best honky-tonks in the area, I have a tremendous amount of respect for boxers. I have been in fights for a few minutes, and felt like I ran a marathon, fought a grizzly bear, and tried to chop-block a slow moving freight train when it was all over. I don't care to do it anymore, and in hindsight, probably wasn't as good as it as I originally thought I was.

Boxers are in shape. Man, they do round after round of jabbing, moving, sticking, bobbing, and weaving, all while taking jabs to the face and body.

Now why am I saying all this when the diary was titled about a book? Well, in addition to creating an unbelievably long diary which no doubt has met the word minimum, I suspect that many of you here are baseball fans like me.

So, I told you all that to tell you about a new book I have. It was given to me by a coworker who is a baseball fan. Her and her husband get the season package every year and we talk baseball a lot, although she loves the Yankees. She can hold her own in a baseball conversation, and her and her husband make annual treks a couple hours south for Spring Training games every spring.

She gave me this book which some of you may have, but if you don't, let me tell you that this book is the perfect example of a coffee table book. You know, the one you throw on the table in your living room just so people will pick it up when they come over and thumb through with a half-interested look.

The book is called "Historic Ballparks - A Panoramic Vision" and it's by John Pastier.

This book is a baseball lovers dream. It starts out with a look back at the architecture of the old stadiums, and is packed with full two-page panoramic pictures of ballparks past and present. The pages about Wrigley Field are interesting, and has some information I never knew. Of course, I never took the time to learn about a lot of the old stadiums, but this book opens a new dimension of learning to me, which is in itself, odd.

So, in summary, I highly recommend it. At about 12" x 16", it may not be the most convenient to read in the bathroom, but it sure makes for a nice addition to the coffee table, and people will be more likely to believe you are a baseball fan than anything else you leave on that table, like "The History of Modern Muffin Molding" that your wife leaves there.

I have a friend that subscribes to Cigar Afficionado magazine, and The New Yorker, and he doesn't even smoke cigars and to be honest, I didn't even know that he knew how to read.

So, check it out, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

Florida Cubbie

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Baseball...
possesses the weakest athletes outside of golf. David Wells, Cecil Fielder, Daryle Ward...

MLS, NBA, and NFL players are all better athletes--by far. You said it perfectly: Baseball players come in all shapes and sizes.

How many over 40 and over 50 basketball and football leagues are there?  Few, if any. A guy can play softball efficiently until he drops. Granted, softball is a slightly different game, but the point remains.

Baseball is a great sport, and the argument can definitely be made that it requires the most skill, but the best athletes in the world do not play on the diamond.

MARQUIS! YES, MARQUIS!

by thekansasian on Aug 27, 2007 8:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Where to begin...
First off, obviously, I'm a huge baseball fan, otherwise, I wouldn't be here.  In fact, baseball is my number one sport.  More so than the sport I used to play, football.  You see, I'm 6' 7" and 295 lbs.  Your comments:

"Football players are a special breed. You can be born with the gift of size and make a great living playing football. You may not be athletic or the brightest color in the Crayon box, but if you are naturally 6'6" and 315 pounds and can bench-press a single-wide trailer, then you can likely get a job in the NFL. If you have big hands and enjoy curling full kegs of beer in your spare time, you likely can start for a pro team."

Are not only ignorant, but insulting.  Just as insulting as anyone who tells you that baseball isn't a sport.  I can guarantee that there aren't NFL jobs being handed out to every person of my size just beacuse we can bench-press X-amount...  There is a little thing called technique, you know...  And injuries, how about those?  How about the two back surgeries I had before I was 30?  Or the herniated discs in my back I still live with to this day?  I don't suppose I was doing anything athletic when those injuries happened, was I?

Now, if you want to talk about how great this book is, go ahead and do so.  But don't stoop to the level of your so-called friends, and put down every other sport you can think of just because you think it makes you sound smart.

Moose

Hubbs!

by moose97 on Aug 27, 2007 8:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sheesh Moose
I didn't say you weren't athletic, or that football players aren't athletic. Or that offensive lineman weren't athletes. I understand the tremendous amount of dexterity and agility they have to have to be quick and strong. It's an ever evolving fact that lineman are getting bigger and stronger, yet somehow continue to get faster.

In fact, I thought I carefully went out of my way to make the point that I wasn't saying that. After double-checking, I did in fact state that. I also said that they put in a lot of time, effort, blood, sweat, and tears to be the best.

What part of that did you skip over before blasting me?

I don't know why you didn't make a career out of football. Personally, it doesn't matter to me. Hey, guess why I had to quit playing baseball in college? Injuries aren't just for football players either. I never once mentioned injuries. I am sorry you have those, and sadly, it isn't just you. The NFL seems to have a poor regard for past players, and many have debilitating injuries that haunt them well into the latter part of their lives -- without even getting into the concussion debate.

Where I did fail to add a few words, was when I implied that they were "handed out jobs" as you said.

What I said was that you could likely get a job in the NFL. No, that is wrong. You do still have to work very hard at it, as I did say later.

I did not mean to insult you dude, but if that's what you took from it, I don't know what to say.

So it goes.

I don't stoop to anyone's level. I try to write my articles without offending anyone, and unfortunately, it's not always easy to do.

So, my apologies if you are insulted and offended. I am sorry you think I am ignorant and stupid.

However, I just don't know how much more clarification I could have put in there. You obviously missed the ones I did place as it is.

So, my apologies again.

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 27, 2007 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps
I reacted a bit too harshly, but I didn't think this:

"Again, I am not taking anything from other athletes in other sports, and I don't think any one is better than the other as they all put in a lot of time, sweat, and tears to be the best at their game."

Made up for what I thought was an inapropriate comment made previous...

Either way, appology accepted, and I'm sorry I flew off the handle...  

Moose

Hubbs!

by moose97 on Aug 27, 2007 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No biggie
I probably should re-read my posts before I submit them. No harm, no foul. First beer is on me!

Florida Cubbie

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 27, 2007 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anybody remember Brock Lesnar?
Lesnar was a heavyweight wrestler for the University of MN.  Won just about everything in college wrestling.  Went pro.  Big guy, solid muscle - scary looking, really, had the size and strength to rip off your leg and beat you to death with it.  Tried to play for the Vikings, and it...just...wasn't a good idea.  He didn't have the technique, and that was enough of a disadvantage to keep him out of the NFL long-term.

Size and strength, as you said, are not everything.

by MN exile on Aug 27, 2007 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I remember Brock trying out for the Vikes. I was really pulling for him. I guess that was around the time I was being forced to grow up a bit and couldn't hang out at the bar eating all-you-can-eat crab legs and drinking beer every Monday night to watch wrestling.

He was super strong, no doubt. Excellent point too. If I recall right the coaches did have good things to say about him.

Aside from that, I think it's cool that someone steps completely out of their comfort zone to chase a dream totally unrelated to anything they have done.

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 28, 2007 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would bet the fastest Offensive Lineman...
has a 40 time better than a 1/3rd of MLB.
MARQUIS! YES, MARQUIS!

by thekansasian on Aug 27, 2007 8:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's great to know
but I'd like to see that same guy get around on a 95 mph fastball, hit a filthy slider on the outside corner, get a big enough lead off first to steal second, without getting his ass picked off, get the right break on a tailing line drive in the gap.............

That's the great thing about baseball, you can take the best put together athletes you can find, and they would be instantly lost on a baseball field because they lack the fine motor skill to do the most difficult thing in sports - hit a round baseball, with a round bat.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 27, 2007 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point taken...
Although I might not completely agree. As I said in another post, the point can definitely be made that baseball players are the most skilled. My disagreements with the diary owner are on his 'athletic' contentions.
MARQUIS! YES, MARQUIS!

by thekansasian on Aug 28, 2007 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you define athlete
as being able to run, jump, throw, lift etc.., than you are 100% correct.  It's quite obvious, that it is more important for the football player or basketball player to be able to do those things, but is simply isn't necessary to be a good baseball player.

There is something in conditioning/training called "specificity of training" and it basically means your body adapts to the stress placed upon it.  The fashion in which a baseball player and football player have to control their muscle movements are completely different, and therefore, you end up with guys who have completely different skill sets, and dramatically different physical abilities.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 28, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...
David Wells, Daryle Ward, Cecil Fielder are lesser athletes than any offensive lineman in the NFL?

I don't contend that baseball players are the best athletes, simply that they shouldn't be labeled "non-athletes" or their skills and athletic ability taken into question just because they play baseball.

By the way, you forgot to mention Prince Fielder!

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 27, 2007 9:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Shit yes they are...
there ain't a freakin' way any of those tubby MLB players could lift OR run with offensive lineman. You're labeling lineman as unathletic because of they're weight; simply not even close to being true.

Furthermore, their weight provides additional benefits to their skill sets. You really think Miguel Cabrera put on 40 pounds to make himself better? Hell no.

Not even a valid comparison.

MARQUIS! YES, MARQUIS!

by thekansasian on Aug 27, 2007 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not apples to apples
the best way to look at this is to review both sports amateur drafts.  When you have a top pick in the NFL, it is likely, that player will be a productive player (in short order) in the NFL.  With the MLB, the majority of number one picks, never even sniff the major leagues.  The mental maturity and refinment of skills necessary to be a productive major league baseball player are difficult to measure, because it's a bitch to try and predict how one's fine motor skill and mental approach, will develop.

With football, you have a much better chance of being productive with pure physical skills; how fast can you run, jump and lift, etc..

I'm not saying certain positions in football don't require fine moter skills, or mental development, because some clearly do.  It's just that with baseball, the differences between a good player and a mediocre player, are far more subtle.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 27, 2007 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A comparison of the sports themselves...
Thanks to George Carlin:
Baseball is different from any other sport, very different. For instance, in most sports you score points or goals; in baseball you score runs. In most sports the ball, or object, is put in play by the offensive team; in baseball the defensive team puts the ball in play, and only the defense is allowed to touch the ball. In fact, in baseball if an offensive player touches the ball intentionally, he's out; sometimes unintentionally, he's out.

Also: in football,basketball, soccer, volleyball, and all sports played with a ball, you score with the ball and in baseball the ball prevents you from scoring.

In most sports the team is run by a coach; in baseball the team is run by a manager. And only in baseball does the manager or coach wear the same clothing the players do. If you'd ever seen John Madden in his Oakland Raiders uniform,you'd know the reason for this custom.

Now, I've mentioned football. Baseball & football are the two most popular spectator sports in this country. And as such, it seems they ought to be able to tell us something about ourselves and our values.

I enjoy comparing baseball and football:

Baseball is a nineteenth-century pastoral game.
Football is a twentieth-century technological struggle.

Baseball is played on a diamond, in a park.The baseball park!
Football is played on a gridiron, in a stadium, sometimes called Soldier Field or War Memorial Stadium.

Baseball begins in the spring, the season of new life.
Football begins in the fall, when everything's dying.

In football you wear a helmet.
In baseball you wear a cap.

Football is concerned with downs - what down is it?
Baseball is concerned with ups - who's up?

In football you receive a penalty.
In baseball you make an error.

In football the specialist comes in to kick.
In baseball the specialist comes in to relieve somebody.

Football has hitting, clipping, spearing, piling on, personal fouls, late hitting and unnecessary roughness.
Baseball has the sacrifice.

Football is played in any kind of weather: rain, snow, sleet, hail, fog...
In baseball, if it rains, we don't go out to play.

Baseball has the seventh inning stretch.
Football has the two minute warning.

Baseball has no time limit: we don't know when it's gonna end - might have extra innings.
Football is rigidly timed, and it will end even if we've got to go to sudden death.

In baseball, during the game, in the stands, there's kind of a picnic feeling; emotions may run high or low, but there's not too much unpleasantness.
In football, during the game in the stands, you can be sure that at least twenty-seven times you're capable of taking the life of a fellow human being.

And finally, the objectives of the two games are completely different:

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll be safe at home!

by MN exile on Aug 27, 2007 11:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Historic Ballparks
Very cool book. I got that a few years ago. There are some great photos in there and some interesting information as well.
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Aug 28, 2007 7:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Indeed
Mike, just out of curiousity, can I ask what you paid for it if you bought it new? Amazon lists it for $30, but I am sure it costs much more new. It is a very cool book and you are right, the photos are stunning.

I want to do something nice for this couple for their gesture, and thought a gift card to a restaurant would be a nice thought. They gave me another book too, and hopefully they will cmake me their charity project. :)

The other book they gave me was this one, which I have yet to crack into:

Likewise, it is packed full of vivid photographs which bring the past alive. It will complement my Ballparks book beautifully. Maybe I will write a review soon on it, this time more in-depth on the book and less about off-topic ramblings such as this one.

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 28, 2007 9:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't rememember how much I paid
I picked up at an borders near me. If I had to guess, I'd say I paid around $30 for it.  as for the SI book, I have the football and baseball books. I haven't read to much of it as much as I have looked through some of the photography. There are some truly amazing photographs. (As you would expect with the SI name on it)
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Aug 28, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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