I Blame Mike Quade: Updated

by Jerry Mumphrey on Sep 4, 2007 10:24 AM CDT Comment 50 comments

Seriously. The guy is not prepared to be a 3rd base coach. He is so overly conservative in sending runners home that he costs us at least 1-2 runs per week. Yes this post is recurring theme under my user name (do a search), but the 3rd base coaching still hasn't improved any. Obviously the players know it's a problem and Zambrano now can't trust him to the point that he just went through the stop sign reflexively. Quade might be great in the clubhouse, hitting instructor, works with the young guys, but he is seriously costing the team runs with his lousy instincts in the 3rd base coaching box. I WISH more guys would run through his stop signs. And yes I blame that problem entirely for Z's subsequent meltdown. If he had a 3rd base coach he could trust he woulnd't have stuck his neck out and embarrassed himself by trying to score, thus ruining his day.

I know Wavin' Wendell was a worse problem, but Chris Speier was the best in recent memory until his banishment for ERUI (easy ridin' under the influence). Does anyone know what happened to Speier?

Edit: Here's what Ryan "Golden Boy" Theriot had to say on the matter... The Cubs players didn't seem to have any problem with what Zambrano said, and shortstop Ryan Theriot even defended his decision to blow third-base coach Mike Quade's stop sign before Zambrano was thrown out at the plate. Theriot did the same thing recently, but managed to score. "It's an instinct, it's a read," Theriot said. "Quade and I talk about it all the time. As a baserunner, you can have a better feel for what's going on than the third-base coach. If you need help, he holds you up, or you keep going. That stuff happens all the time." http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-070904cubsbrite,1,6456995.story?ctrack=1&cset=true BTW did you know Quade has no eyebrows? That would explain the Goonies comparison.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Oh, please.

Quade's done a pretty good job, IMO.

And to blame him for what happened to Z yesterday is ridiculous. Short of tackling him (unlikely, since Z outweighs Quade by about 40 pounds), there was no more obvious STOP signal that could have been given.

This one's all Z's fault.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Further...

... 1-2 runs PER WEEK? That's also ridiculous.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Al: was this a

Special Olympics Post?

I don't get it. This couldn't have been for real was it? This was a pathetic "no blame" post. I assume this guy is from the "if it doesn't fit, we must acquit" crowd. Gag me, as they say in the Valley.

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know this is may be a difficult progression...

of logic for some, so I'll attempt to spell it out.

Quade made the right call in attempting to hold Zambrano at third base, absolutely
Quade almost always holds the runner at third, even when the runner could score easily
Following from statement 2, Zambrano has no faith in Quade to ever send a runner when he should
Following from statement 3, Zambrano decided to blow through the stop sign because it was Quade who held him
Zambrano embarrased himself from his actions in statement 4, because statement 1 still holds true
With a different third base coach none of this happens, thus I blame Quade.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Sep 5, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Statement No. 2 is...

...HIGHLY subjective and difficult to prove.

I actually agree (subjectively) that Quade does seem too conservative at times but that in no way justifies -- or excuses -- what Zambrano did.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 5, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is still no simpler than before.

Let us make statements and rank them in order of importance...

Mike Quade is the 3B coach and decides who goes and who holds...period. If Lou is unhappy with his decision making, HE will address it appropriately.
Z is large, slow, and there were no outs in the inning...and this game was extremely important to the club.
Z blows off a coach (for whatever reason... insignificant because Z is a professional ballplayer and you do what is asked of you or... you ask for the job of 3B coach and Quade can pitch)
Z is thrown out at home, or should I say in the third base line, and sacrafices a much needed (at the time) run.
Z melts down, bashes booers, apologizes, etc etc.

Statement 1 is the only important one because if Z does his freakin job, and doesn't blow off the sign, statements 2-5 are non existent.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 5, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have no idea

how Zambrano feels about Quade so to say he has no faith in him is ridiculous.

I love this team!!!

by sue369 on Sep 5, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's simplify.

It's the 3rd base coach's job to send or hold the runners.
The runners duty is to obey the coach. No ifs or buts from Theriot or anybody.
If a runner obeys the coach and the play fails, it's the coach's fault. However, if the player disobeys the coach and botches the play it's the player's fault, always.

Addendum: You never make the 1st out at home plate with the heart of the lineup up to bat. Also, you don't send the runner home when the ball is in the cut-off man's hand. Finally, the coach should always take into account the runner's speed. Therefore, Quade was right in being conservative and ordering Zambrano to stop.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 6, 2007 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For Pete's Sake!

Z had the play right in front of him.

PLUS, he must be cognizant of the game situation, which he rarely is.

That play was entirely Z's fault. Brain-dead baseball play.

PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Sep 4, 2007 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Is it wrong...

...that I don't really care about the base running blunder?

Clearly it was Zambrano's mistake to run through the stop sign, but frankly the impact of that one play was minimal on the course of the game. Soriano made it to 3rd on the play, and scored on Theriot's single, so we still took the lead. You could say we might have expected a 2-run lead instead of 1, but the problems started when Zambrano hit the mound and couldn't throw strikes.

Why do we expect perfection on the base paths from a pitcher? If Z was like most pitchers, he wouldn't have had such a good at bat to get on base in the first place. You can argue about his mental weaknesses, and whether he should be booed or not, but a simple baserunning error (while certainly annoying) should still be forgiveable.

by MadHatterBlues on Sep 4, 2007 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

"Perfection"?

No, but if a man gets on base, one of his jobs is to watch the base coaches. That's what they are there for.

If Z stops at third, yes, maybe two runs score, or maybe even more -- since there would have been two runners in scoring position with nobody out -- and, more importantly, maybe Z wouldn't have become unhinged on the mound after that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unhinged

Getting tagged out at home was a mistake, and a silly one, but that play has absolutely no influence on Zambrano's pitching unless he lets it get inside his head. Thats a mental issue he will have to deal with, as the only alternative is preventing him from swinging the bat just in case he gets on base and screws-up

by MadHatterBlues on Sep 4, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Z was different

after that play, he screwed up and came back out and started pitching poorly, and it looked like as he did poorly he got more emotional and pitched even worse

he needs to keep his emotions in check, breaking bats over his knee is entertaining and all, but one day he's going to get hurt

keeping mediocrity at bay

by flyball on Sep 4, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zambrano ran the Cubs out of the inning.

Yes, he was only one un-scored run, and one unnecessary out. And yes, Soriano scored. Still, it was a breakup of a good offensive buildup, where better things might well have happened.

And then he melted down mentally. The guy is almost getting dangerous to the Cubs when he takes the mound. Whatever he needs to do to get his mental makeup back (?) to "normal" needs to happen fast.

by MN exile on Sep 4, 2007 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I thought your diary was a joke at first. Is it?

As someone said above, the freakin play was right in fron to f his face...the ball was on it's way in when he almost barreled over Quade. ALL Z...ALL Z.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 4, 2007 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Context

There were no outs and the heart of the order coming up. Sending him would have been the stupid thing to do.

In addition, Z should be adult enough to not let that play destroy his fragile psyche so that he couldn't pitch the next inning. I laughed when people here said that all Z needed was to have the contract worries behind him. As if that was what was causnig his early season woes. All Hendry needed to do was "Get it done" and Zambrano would becomes the ace.

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Quade

start the reactor!

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Sep 4, 2007 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

BEEENNNNY!! DIE BEENNNY!!!

I saw this comment earlier today at work and nearly died laughing. nothing like a little ahnold to brighten up your day

by PrincetonCubs on Sep 4, 2007 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather

have someone a bit more conservative at third than say Wavin' Wendal.

by 10 14 23 26 on Sep 4, 2007 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not a joke

Let me put it this way, I think Zambrano wanted to show him up. If there had been no 3rd base coach at all I bet he doesn't try to score. I watch the games on TV and every week I see Quade hold up a runner when replays show he should have scored. Zambrano sees this clearly from the 3rd base dugout, and maybe he hoped he could draw a bad throw that time, but he obviously doesn't trust Quade and he shouldn't. The point is if he could TRUST him he wouldn't have another head game to deal with. Yes his immature antics on the mound are frustrating and lead to wildness and for that he isn't worth the contract, but I'm just saying without the problem at 3rd yesterday (caused by a lack of trust in Quade) I think he stays focused on the mound. More importantly CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED TO SPEIER?

by Jerry Mumphrey on Sep 4, 2007 11:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

LOL!!

You have no idea what Z is thinking regarding Quade. This is just ridiculous speculation on your part.

I love this team!!!

by sue369 on Sep 4, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great

He doesn't trust Quade and he shouldn't? Let's just let all the players override the coaching staff whenever they want.

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh brother.....

...it isn't Zambrano's place to "show up" Quade. If that was his intention, then he should be heavily fined. I don't understand it sometimes. Wendell Kim waved too many in and now people are complaining about Quade because he doesn't wave in enough. Make up your mind what you want.

As for Speier, he was ushered out with the rest of Baker's coaches. The only holdover was Rothschild, and Piniella had a history with him. Speier's in-season DUI likely didn't help his chances of being retained, either.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Sep 4, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speier...

... actually wasn't a Baker hire; Hendry put him in that spot after Kim was fired.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Speier was..............

.........likely the best 3B coach we have had over the past 20 years.

Suspect he'd have held Zambrano as well.........

by tville on Sep 4, 2007 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are no logical facts

to support sending $91 million of pitcher to home plate with no outs and your 2-3-4 hitters coming up. No third base coach risks injury in a situation where the ball was clearly in the hands of the cut off man BEFORE Z got to third. There were no logical facts to send anyone in that circumstance. We were hitting Loiaza hard and had the chance for a huge inning. Period, end of story. Let's just be grateful that Z did not collide with Martin and injure himself.

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speier, Quade, anyone, Bueller?

Any 3rd base coach with two brain cells to rub together would have put up the stop sign. Zambrano was idiotic to go "Shawon Dunston" on the base path. I don't even want to think about what that inning could have been, let alone if he hadn't freaked out afterwards. For a minute it at the beginning of the next inning his pitches looked almost like he was trying to repeat that Burt Hooton pitch that almost went from the mound into the dugout!

by MN exile on Sep 4, 2007 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Speier was done the minute he was...

arrested. Was it Quade who took over for him mid-season? Speier must still be coaching somewhere, maybe with the Cubs farm system?

by Jerry Mumphrey on Sep 5, 2007 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WRONG!!!!!

I love this team!!!

by sue369 on Sep 4, 2007 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You've GOT To Be Kidding

Blame this on Quade??????? That is wrong on so many levels. It's elementary Baseball 101 NOT to make the first out of the inning at home plate. Even if Zambrano thought he could make it, Soriano was up next and the chances were good he'd score. And as it turned out, he would have scored. Players should not have the leeway to ignore the coach no matter who they are. For the life of me I don't understand a baserunner who is looking behind himself for an outfielder or even ahead to the right for the play. Runners should always be looking at the base coaches. That's why they're there.

As we've said since yesterday, Zambrano knew he blew and it obviously affected him. THAT can't be blamed on Quade either. As others have said, it could very be that Zambrano simply isn't all that intelligent. After all, he's been in the Cub organization since he was 16 and was trying out for teams before that. His lack of education and development of common sense and ability to reason likely manifested itself yesterday. And for that matter, it manifests itself every time he has a temper tantrum, which is really how to characterize yestaerday's debacle.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Sep 4, 2007 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Here's the problem with having a bad...

3rd base coach. It doesn't matter if he suddenly figures it out by the end of the season. If he's got bad instincts all year, then the baserunners are GOING to start looking behind them, watching the outfielders, running through stop signs, etc. Quade is just consistently way too conservative and it was only a matter of time before someone (like our dumbest player) tried this. I can only hope Quade feels partially responsible and makes an effort to send more runners and lets the players know about his plan so they begin to trust him again.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Sep 4, 2007 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Quade was as bad as you say....

.... he wouldn't be where he is right now.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Sep 4, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

there were no outs. I do not know a 3rd base coach who would have sent him, even if the LF tripped and did a summersault (?). NO OUTS. You do not make the 1st out at 3B and you DEFINITELY do not make the 1st out at home plate. Not that it would have made a difference but that is another run scored had he follwed the damn rules.

FWIW, I disagree that he doesn't trust Quade...no reason not to. people kept trusting Wavin Wendall and he proved to be a lot less competent. This whole thing makes no sense. You sure this isn't a joke?

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 4, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again...

...the play was right in front of Z. He's got to know: It's early in a tied game/There are no outs/I'm not too fleet of foot/the 3-4-5 hitters are coming up.

Even if there was a H.S. softball player in a ponytail and helmet in the 3d base coach's box frantically waving him in, Z should have known to stop.

PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Sep 4, 2007 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Paging Dennis

Well, let's have the Cubs get Dennis Quaid instead. He looked pretty good in "The Rookie", and maybe he and Trachsel can figure out how an old guy can still pitch in the major leagues.

Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Sep 4, 2007 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The last thing any of us should want...

Is Carlos Zambrano thinking for himself out there.

Zambrano has scored from first without the benefit of a home run behind him exactly HOW many times in his career?

Seriously, shut up. You're the one who is embarassing yourself. Worse than Zambrano.

by lancaster99 on Sep 4, 2007 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If we had even an average 3rd base coach,

say Rene Lachemann, there all year I bet Zambrano holds at 3rd because he trusts him. But yes, I fully agree, that was a terrible time to run through a stop sign and Zambrano is a head case with a hero complex.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Sep 4, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you have any clue

what you are saying? Even if he didn't agree with Quade, he has to follow the coach. What's next? If Zambrano gets the bunt sign in his next game, he should just swing away because he disagrees. Hey, if he disagrees with Kendall's pitch selection, why not just throw whatever he wants.

By the way, Quade was right. You do not make the first out at the plate with your #2, 3 and 4 batters coming up.

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, the problem with this post ...

... is not whether it is right or wrong, but that it deflects our attention from the fact that we lost yesterday's game because of one guy: Carlos Zambrano. Until he straightens up, his "new" nickname is HEADCASE. That's it. I more worried about the guy going Ankiel on us than whether the Quade blunder was Zambrano's fault or not. - TL

by timlacy on Sep 4, 2007 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Re:

"head case with a hero complex."

perfect quote, that about sums it up right there!

Here's to a new year!!

by santo for prez on Sep 4, 2007 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And

a slight weight problem

by BigFatZ on Sep 4, 2007 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he

doesnt look fat at all

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Question?

Just wondering what you all thought about the actual play at the plate. I kinda thought that if Zambrano would have slid to the inside, he may have made the play alot harder to call. If the throw is close, you should get your but down. That's good baseball. Running through a stop sign, is not the biggest mistake. Not sliding is the issue I have.

by GHCF2314 on Sep 4, 2007 5:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that definitely compounded the issue

If he wasn't running scared by that point he may have actually had the presence of mind to dive away from the tag, which might have actually worked. MLB players (i.e. Aramis, Jacque, et al) really have no excuse to forgo the slide so often. It's actually safer for your body, especially across home. I guess these guys are just too dumb or lazy to do it.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Sep 5, 2007 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree partially

I definitely think Z went because he doesn't have any faith in Quade. Quade has made bad decisions all year. He has been as conservative as Wavin' Wendall was aggressive. I just think the failures aren't as apparent because there isn't a highlight running of the mistake all night.

It was definitely a bad move on Z's part but I think it was also an indication of the amount of confidence Z has in Quade's decision making.

by JonH on Sep 5, 2007 7:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I blame Mike Quade...

...for being a weird-lookin' dude. He looks like the principal from Motley Crue's "Smokin' In the Boys Room" video.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 5, 2007 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That's harsh!

So I guess you could say he looks a bit like Sloth from the Goonies too?

That is who I think of when I see that dude.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 5, 2007 11:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

re: That's harsh!

Yep, like Sloth, too. I swear that weird-lookin' bald dude was in every 80s B-movie ever made.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 5, 2007 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but...

...Theriot's quote still doesn't make anything Quade's fault. Whether Z purposely blew off Quade's stop sign out of spite or was just running on instinct, it was his (Zambrano's) fault.

And any idea why Quade doesn't have eyebrows? Tragic kerosene lantern accident? Confusion as to the business end of a weed whipper? The people wanna know.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 5, 2007 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs