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More Z Fallout

Amazingly enough, Jay Mariotti has it exactly right. Speaking of Cubs fans, he writes:

What, they should sit there like quiet sheep when the $91.5 million pitcher stinks? Like Zambrano, they are driven by emotion. When he's striking out batters, putting up zeros and pointing at the sky, they stand and roar. When he's running through stop signs and performing like a bust, they boo.

Precisely. Mike Downey got it right too:

The pitcher's attitude during a 11-3 dismantling by the Dodgers and his subsequent conduct and comments were disrespectful to the customers who pay to see him play as well as to the employers who pay his way.

To say of Wrigley's fans that "they just care about them" is to drive a wedge between them and yourself, which is the last thing Zambrano or anyone at Wrigley should risk doing with the Cubs in hot pursuit of a rare pennant.

Particularly when your team also has a "For Sale" sign posted out front and the new owner is going to be stuck with your five-year, $91.5 million tab.

Zambrano is going to need to do a little fancy pitching and perhaps a lot of fast backpedaling to win back the hearts of some of these fans.

Yup. Downey has nailed it. Bruce Miles says it might have been almost as bad as Lee Elia's ripping of Cub fans back in 1983. But I don't think it'll cause him to "waive his no-trade clause this off-season", as Paul Sullivan suggests.

Derrek Lee didn't like the booing either:

"I'm not a big fan of the booing at home," Lee said. "Maybe if it's a lack of effort, but 'Z' has been so big for this organization and gives everything he has out there, so I have a hard time with the booing."

He continued:

"The fans are passionate," Lee said. " But they have to understand we're human beings. We do make mistakes."

About that, he is 100% correct. We DO understand that you're human beings and that you make mistakes. Everyone does. We are not booing you, the human being. We are not booing your effort -- we know you're giving 100%. We are booing your performance.

Here's the bottom line:

If you, the professional athlete, love the adulation and cheers and roars that you get when, for example, you, D-Lee, hit a game-winning HR (as you did on Sunday), then you have to accept the negative sounds that emanate from the assembled multitudes when your performance is poor.

It really is as simple as that. For Z to say:

You know, I thought these were the greatest fans in baseball. But they showed me today that they just care about them, and that's not fair, because when you're struggling, you want to feel the support of the fans.

... isn't right at all. You heard the boos not because "we just care about us", but because we care about you and we want you to perform better.

I'll link again to this New Yorker cartoon to illustrate my point.

That's right, Z, and everyone else on the ballclub. We DO love you. Just go out there and perform the way we know you can. Go get 'em tonight. Go Cubs.

0 recs  |  Comment 175 comments

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Let's ride him
the rest of the way, hoping he can find something left before this season's over, and then trade him.

As I've posted elsewhere, Z is never going to be the stopper, the consistent go-to guy, the "ace" of a staff. He is far too fragile-minded and emotional for that. His comments are an affront to fans and his team. He is pathetic. Good riddance.

Maybe paying professional athletes assloads of money really isn't a good thing after all, because would you give a 10-year old $90mil? What a mistake.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 8:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's going to be pretty difficult to trade him....
with that contract. Hendry could have saved himself some dough if he waited a few months on it. I really don't like the decision to pay someone as a remedy for struggling.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Sep 4, 2007 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He isn't going to be traded.
That's just a another stupid s*** stirring by the midget man Sullivan.
He would be extremely easy to trade with teams lining up for him.  

BTW for all the fans who claim to pay his salary, ponder this-
He will get $19 mil.  If he makes 35 starts and 100 pitches a game, he will get $5428.57 a pitch.  So you aren't paying much of his salary with your $40 ticket.  Heck, you're barely paying for an usher.

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are kidding right?
All the fans collectively pay his salary. My $45.00 might be a drop in the ocean but nevertheless they contribute towards the big total. If fans are not paying his salary how in the world do you think he is getting his paychecks? I guess the Pirates would like to know this too

by cubsnlinux on Sep 4, 2007 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I pay far more than you do
and it still isn't giving me the right to "claim" I pay his salary.  And BTW, the majority of fans there yesterday weren't booing.  They were upset
and disappointed, but that's about it.  

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You bring up a good point....
I was at the game, and it just seemed that the fans were frustrated that the game quickly got out of hand, and then they booed.  I personally thought that it was not directed to any particular player, just the team.

But obviously if Z took it personally he has to know that he has sucked really bad lately.  You have gone 0-6 in your last start and the Cubs took over 1st place in that time frame.  Look in the mirror Z....

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well then you don't much about finance
and economics do you? Do you understand the concept of a shareholder?

by cubsnlinux on Sep 4, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude
$40 X 40,000 fans = $1,600,000 per game

$1,600,000 X 81 home games = $129,600,000

That is one well paid usher.

by WittyUserName on Sep 4, 2007 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well dude
If you think you speak for 40000 people you are totally under the influence.  You and your $40 speak for yourself and don't pay for an usher.

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand
I honestly don't understand what this means. Seriously, what?

I wasn't commenting on booing or not booing. That is a message board debate that will never be finalized. I was simply pointing out that people who claim that they pay for the players salaries are right. Most of the money generated by the Chicago Cubs comes from ticket sales, which the fans foot the bill for.

by WittyUserName on Sep 4, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally mixed up cause & effect
First unlike the only professional sports franchise the Cubs are not "ours" they are a shareholders team. Secondly, there will be some fans who will ride him but reality is that he is going to pitch the next four of five games on the road and the pressure on him from his himself, teammates, sports media, friends & family is going to be far greater than anything you can apply. His performance will be a result of he and the coaching staff putting back mentally and physically Z to the area he can perform. Thirdly, thinking that paying an enormous pile of money results in better performance is actually counter-intuitive....the Cubs if they were only concerned about his performance being enhanced over the final 6 weeks of the season would not have paid him.

They paid him the money because looking out into the future there were few options or good options. Whether he is an ACE or merely a top of the rotation good pitcher more in line with his capabilities is immaterial to his contract, tell me what options were out there. As for trading, tell me what you expect others will pay.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Home Booing
I am not saying that the booing of Zambrano was not merited yesterday as his performance was unquestionably terrible.

I have been noticing over the last couple of years that there has been a definite increase in the Wrigley crowd booing the home team--even for some very minor mistakes.  To me, booing the home team is something that should be reserved only for the most egregious situtations.  While I don't necessarily agree with Z's comments, frequent booing of the home team does seem to show a lack of support and makes the fans look capricious.  

by NDCub on Sep 4, 2007 8:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

maybe carlos could be a DE or LB.
if he wants to jump around, pound his chest, point to the sky, show up opponents along with all of the other antics he engages in he might want to consider a career in the nfl.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

completely agree
just wrote a diary on this...

by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 4, 2007 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
The booing is happening too often.  This is a team winning their division.

Booing Z seems as though it will only compound the problems he's having on the mound.  Why not
back our ace thorugh this rough patch instead?

Those that feel the need to so vigorously defend their right to boo are obnoxious.  Some more loyalty would be nice.

by tk5446 on Sep 4, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Booing is totally appropriate
For continuous, boneheaded or idiotic play. Yesterday, Zambrano fell into this category.

Frankly, I've thought that Cubs fans don't boo enough, all things considered.

How well do you suppose Z's antics yesterday would have played in New York? Would Yankees and/or Mets fans showered him with roses instead?

Even the fans in Milwaukee were booing like crazy yesterday when the Brewers were blowing yet another game. Are they wrong?

Cardinals fans booed Kip Wells off the mound yesterday. Are they wrong?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 4, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely agree
If Big Z played for the Mets or the Phillies he would've been booed off the mound in May.  Cubs fans were right for booing him off the mound yesterday.  I was home booing at my TV.

That said, there have been instances in the last few years where I thought the booing was unjustified.  Yesterday was definitely not one of those instances.

by cubsbak on Sep 4, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The booing can be overdone
but yesterday, it was 100 percent justified.

If Z just went out there afterward and said "Yeah, I screwed up and I know I have to do better," I think the fans would have gotten back to his side. Fans love guys who "get it" in that way. As has been pointed out below, Wood and Dempster are good at always doing this when they have a bad day.

Now, Z is going to have go to out and kick ass on the road in his next two starts. If he doesn't, his next start at Wrigley could get ugly, at least in the grandstands.

And he has nobody to blame but himself.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 4, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I take pride
in the fact that cubs fans are not like mets or yankees fans

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess
i dont understand why the booing is needed, if its to let him know he didnt play well, i dont think you had to tell him, he probably knew that

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

please elaborate on this:
I take pride

in the fact that cubs fans are not like mets or yankees fans.

i truly do not understand the comment.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

some
were trying to explain that the booing is appropriate, giving examples that if Z were on teams like the Mets or yankees he would have been booed even louder, all im sayin is, why would we want to be anything like yankee fans, im probably not explaining this well

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally
Just because Yankee or Philly fans boo isnt a good enough reason to join in.  I mean the Yankees booed A-Rod for an entire season a year after he won the MVP and he still had an all star year.  Yankees fans are ridiculous.  We shouldn't look to them on how to support our team.

by tk5446 on Sep 4, 2007 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few more days of playing like this...
And...that will be a dream from the past...
The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Sep 4, 2007 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All Cubs fans ask !!! Please think like PRO's
These guys are all superior athletes playing a kids game.

Please think during games.

  1. Twice in Z's last 2 game the opposing pitcher has hurt him at the plate.
  2. You learn in Little Leauge to pick up the 3rd base coach
"we all knew a melt down was on the way after he was thrown out at home"

3) I still go back to Soriano in the Mets Sunday night game trying to get to third base on a single hit in front of him.

Got to live their energy but we need these guys thinking as well.

Keep the faith !!!

by parrotinct on Sep 4, 2007 8:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hammer
I was positive and commented to my buddy that Big Z was going to do something stupid coming off the field.  I was thinking a Black Jack McDowell moment.

Just about everything he did the whole game cost us the game.  Baserunning, reaching his hand out and losing his composure.  

Lastly, trade him? No unless the right deal came, but it wont.

by Hammer on Sep 4, 2007 8:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Zambrano trade?
...trade him? No unless the right deal came, but it wont.

What GM in his right mind would trade for the guy?  That much money for someone who's clearly unstable on the mound?  Who runs a team out of an inning?  That was a Shawon Dunston level baserunning mistake!

(Sorry to bring up the bad memories!)

by MN exile on Sep 4, 2007 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disappointing
Everything that happened yesterday with Zambrano was disappointing.  I don't see it being such a big deal with Z as it is with the rest of the team.  D-Lee's comments kinda make it sound like the booing may have bummed everybody on the team.  Also it cannot be a good thing for a team to see their pitcher get in fights with teamates and throw tantrums with no consequence, especially making the outrageous kind of money that Z makes.  Basically, his attitude and his comments about the fans and his poor performance can only hurt the team as a whole IMO.

by adam316 on Sep 4, 2007 9:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the problem with Z
is that we can say things like "We knew what was going to happen."

IMO this isn't a fan base overreacting because a guy simply had a bad outing. This is a fan base showing frustration with a pitcher who has repeatedly shown an inability to keep his focus after things start going poorly for him.

He talks about how he doesn't appreciate the booing. There are certainly places around baseball where he would be getting it worse.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Sep 4, 2007 9:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you got that right.
There are certainly places around baseball where he would be getting it worse.

i'd like to see zambrano come-up my way and perform the way he has in front of a yankee stadium crowd. hell, they'd have him crying on the mound.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i recall...
a couple of years ago when jeter got off to a slow start offensively, he was booed at yankee stadium almost mercilessly.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who cares...
what zambrano's salary is and who pays it. whether a player's salary is the league minimum or $18 mil, the player is expected to play to their ability.

really, would any of us feel better if zambrano was only getting paid $2 mil a year?

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Athletes paradox
This is hard to describe but professional athletes are truly separated from the fans who support them, essentially pay their enormous compensation et cetera. Fans also propel or encourage performance that might be above the expectations or capability of a player or team. BIG MO or the emotional outburst from Sunday's game turned around 180 degrees when performance on the field was less than expected.

When Lee said he didn't like booing he was expressing a common thought that the fans are their to serve the players, there is reciprocity or two-way street, meaning poor performance might have a counter move. Yet since a player must put his (or her) heart and soul into a game, meaning their personality et cetera when they are boo'd they also will receive it personally as they also receive accolates personally.

Fans on the other hand are fanatics, they are there to see performances, results, and cheer along the way.

Zambrano is caught in his own quindry and only performance, at a level expected of him can overcome his dilemna. He is the quintessential Latin proud man, emotional and even impulsive, talented beyond many, yet fragile since his emotions are also his leveling agent. I am not condoning his statements or behavior in anyway, in fact they were as stupid as his blowing through a stop sign in the 3rd inning.

After signing the contract he is now going to think that he gave Chicago a $20-$30M discount, maybe yes or maybe no. Question what would have been his FA value based on performance over August and September to date....probably less than his agent is willing to admit.

This is now the time for Piniella, Hendry, Rothschild and Trammel to put Zambrano back together again. They will have to cuddle him at the same time tough love him, they will have to get him to focus on the moment instead of the anticipation or implications, they will have to rebuild his psyche. Fortunately for Z and the Cubs they will be on the road for his next two starts, ( Sat in Pittsburgh & Thurs in Houston) where the return to Wrigley won't be until Tues against Cincinnati, before again Z will pitch on the road in Florida and possibly the final game of the series in Cincinnati. Furthermore if the Cubs make the playoffs Z will probably start on the road against the WD winners of SD or AZ.

By that time I am expecting him to have pitched 4 quality starts.

 

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 9:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why
are people so quick to call for trades, if some of you ran this team we would be in so much trouble because we would have traded away dlee, soriano, and zambrano by now.

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 9:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Small defense of Z
mike's comment above is correct.  The booing was NOT because of one or two bad performances.  It's because of repeated blowups.  That being said, I lay a good portion of the blame on Larry "I still wish Dusty were here" Rothschild (sp?).  After Z got thrown out at the plate trying to be a hero, he came into the game and walked the next hitter he faced on four pitches.  Rothschild should have been out there immediately.  Instead, he waited until Z was so far gone that when he did go out there, Z did not hear one word he said.  You could tell by Z's reaction that he wasn't paying any attention at all.  Most of the pitching staff is rock steady and very easy for Rothschild to handle a la Dusty Baker's hands off approach.  He has absolutely no clue on how to handle Zambrano.  The key to Zambrano is to get him laughing and having fun.  He's like a big kid.  Keep him laughing and it keeps him from getting scared.  Zambrano is an emotional guy, you just need to keep the emotions positive.  I know it sounds like I'm advocating babying him, but that's not the case.  His psyche is not going to change and Rothschild needs to work within that framework.  
Distracted. That's a funny word. I wonder if anyone ever gets tracted.

by CyberCyclist on Sep 4, 2007 9:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

just a couple points
First it is never Rothschild's decision to go to the mound, it is Piniella's he is the field manager and if you watch the dugout there are many discussions during moments of decision but then Piniella makes the call. Second, do you think that Piniella & Co wanted to see how Z reacted to the situation.

Interestingly I think the blown stop stop sign is given to the excuse that Z had made up his mind to try to score the moment Soriano hit the ball and ran with his head down. Piniella interestingly stated that Z should never had even thought about it since it was no outs and the front of the order was coming up with a ball played in front of him.

One can point to minor league instruction here where the Cubs have had a poor result in having players come up in his era with mental baseball knowledge. C-Patterson, Choi, Cedeno to name a few.

As for Z listening to Rothschild, ultimately it was Piniella's decision to yank him or not.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i do think lou should go talk to zambrano
on the mound when he's falling apart.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Sep 4, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Myself
and several others here haven't been quick to call for a Z trade. We wanted him traded as early as last season, and certainly after his less than stellar start to this season. I've waited to see some sign of emotional development from this guy, but it's not happening. What you see is what you get with him. At this point, after his continued childishness and emotional distress, I am not fearful that Z will ever come to be an ace. He doesn't have the mentality fot that. See Maddux, Clemens, et al. for true aces.

Z is the proverbial headcase. He is Farnsworth in lion's clothing.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 9:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Aren't you mixing metaphors here?
I don't remember anything in "lion's clothing".  I think it's "sheep's clothing" and it would be a wolf that wears it.  

"Farnsworth in lion's clothing" sounds almost like something out of "Silence of the Lambs" or "Joe Dirt".

by NO100 on Sep 4, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That
was my point. I'm not mixing the metaphor, I'm playing on it, twisting it into its opposite, because Farnsy would've been the sheep, which Z is like, but Z looks - due to his size and demeanor - more like a lion?

And yes, it is meant to be an odd image.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ohhh ... OK
A bit too abstract for me before my second cup of coffee.  Very kafkaesque.

by NO100 on Sep 4, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take that
as a compliment. Thanks. And I completely understand about the coffee. Incidentally, I'm making a second pot right now in my office.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IT PUT'S THE LOTION ON !
IT PUT'S THE JOE DIRT IN THE HOLE!!!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about this Z.........
you claim the fans are selfish and "just care about them", where were you when other players on the team were getting booed and the same kinda of treatment you got on Monday?

You only call us out when we do it to you, but you dont stand up for your teammates when it happens to them?  To me that is "just caring about you".

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 9:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

give the fans a clue Higgy...what is going on in
the lockeroom right now. Lee now the unquestioned leader in the clubhouse came forward to protect Z a bit saying the booing was not good, but also criticized him for his baserunning blunder.

What else is going on?  

You are correct, Z has not stepped up to defend others and the statement that the fans (in the singular) care only about themselves, as what else are they going to care about, they are fans there to enjoy and cheer on the winning ways, why else would they fill the stadium each day to the tune of almost 42,000.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not sure..
What the fans believe happens in the lockerroom/clubhouse, but most of the time i can guess they are wrong about their assumptions.

To be honest, when a player has a bad game, he does not sit in front of his locker and sulk or anything like that.  Most of the time they are up running around and talking with other players joking around and what not.

And to be quite honest, they dont care what we as fans think.  Booing does upset them to a point but they get over it, because they have to.  Z knows this city, he signed a contract here to stay here.  He has been here for years and he has seen the booing, but never directed towards him.  Now it bothers him - seems a little to frustrating and selfish from Z who wanted to be here so bad?

I am not sure why he said this or what made him say this.  But something else that i know goes on in the clubhouse is/are the media.  They are hounds in there, and he probably was frustrated by getting asked the same question over and over.  (luckily i was off limits, they were not allowed to ask me anything :) )  But they are all over the place just looking for something to write about.  And sometimes it is overwhelming and too much of a circus.  And i am sure Z was fed up about them hounding him about his 0-6 stretch.

Other than that, the players really dont do much, some play with there PSPs or listen to their ipods or trade stories about things.

(but please note what i saw was under Dusty who was extremely laid back)

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

those are my experiences
After seeing the reaction in the papers, media and fans here even though Z is not going to read them directly (as he shouldn't) he will know that they are strong in his disfavor. The lockeroom and Z will move on but in the meantime I hope the staff and Z come together and put him together again.

His ball again was flat, meaning it was not heavy late sink. Once LAD figured he couldn't throw a strike more than 50% of the time they let him walk them into a big inning.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Walks...
have been his trouble since he came into the league.  Walks and high pitch counts.

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, ...
... Well said!  Bravo!  It's about the performance, not the person.  It's akin to the old Catholic saw: hate the sin and love the sinner. - TL

by timlacy on Sep 4, 2007 9:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bad Blood Now between Z & Cubs fans
His only redemption is to win games and better yet, win decisively.

Despite this bru-ha-ha, I'm still convinced that this team can sneak into the playoffs, it will all blow over in the end, and we will all be loving the guy and his emotional proclivities to death.

by JFCubFan on Sep 4, 2007 9:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Professional athletes are priveleged
to do what they do and to get paid assloads for it. It's just nice to see them acknowledge that more often. Maybe I'm a bit cynical or callous. After all, they are humans, too. But it stings average Joe's like me who have to watch these overgrown children making the money they do, acting as they do, for doing what they do. That's a tough pill to swallow, and I don't feel the need to ever stick up for a player when he's "calling out" us fans. Z is pathetic, and he's egomanical enough to think otherwise.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 9:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you seem jealous
of the money they make.  

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 10:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually, its envy
But never the less, he is paid a boat load of money (like Kegler's assload reference) to perform. Physical mistakes are always - or should be - tolerated. Mental mistakes can't be accepted. His focus is for shit right now.

I really think Z's game went south after he was thrown out at the plate. I got benched in HS and college for doing shit like that.

Z has to buckle down and listen to his coaches. He too often runs high pitch counts and goes to full counts unnecessarily, like before Esteban's 2R single.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 4, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
I'm sure he got chewed out when he got back to the dugout after that bone head play and it probably affected him.

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ignoring Lee Crushing Z
Lee is an excellent player, he's done so much and handled himself so well that he gets cut alot of slack here.  If Lee makes boneheaded plays in the field he gets slack from the fans because he's an excellent player and his head is in the game, he also handles himself like a professional...Now Z on the other hand is a childish punk who needs to get his head out of his can and pitch well.  Z's career is full of unprofessional acts, selfish B.S. that shouldn't be tolerated.  Z deserves to be booed, he's a selfish punk of a player.  He's getting millions of support--get the job done and shut your mouth you boring selfish punk!

by DudeVf11 on Sep 4, 2007 10:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

read through the game threads here
or listen to DLee's interviews

he hears it, he hears the negativity from the fans

by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 4, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sure that he does.
But fans are not booing Derek Lee.  I could easily interpret Lee's comments as him being a great teammate by trying to take some heat off Zambrano.

I am not sure what has given the Cubs players the impression that they will not be booed at home?  This is a childish approach to the game.  In general, Cubs fans boo at things that are boo worthy, e.g., bone headed play, lack of effort, talent that does not belong in an MLB uniform, bush league behavior...The players need an attitude adjustment or they should all quit--admit they can't take it and resign.  This team needs competitors and instead we get show boating wusses.  I can't root for this jackass Zambrano at all anymore, except to the extent that he can help the Cubs win.  If he's going to be a big baby then make a statement and trade his sorry butt in the off season.  

Also, I appreciate your comments and none of my post here is directed towards you or in an angry tone.

by DudeVf11 on Sep 4, 2007 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zambrano's hair
Does he have blonde highlights now?  When did he get those?  And would that be the cause of the bad streak?

by Arbusto on Sep 4, 2007 10:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Right on Al!
As I said last night, I bit my tongue and didn't boo Z.

I DID boo Joe West (who not BruceFroemming alerted me to the fact he's "Cowboy Joe West"), and saved a hearty boo for the "Lethal LOOGY" Will Oh-Man!, whom I loathe.

I'm not a proponent of booing home town heroes anymore and stopped with JJones after giving much thought as I realized he really was giving 100%.

But I have my limits as well - and in this case - intead of calling out the fans, STAND UP and say, "I deserved it and I stunk!" People LOVE this here. Even Dempster gets a break when he owns up, right?

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 10:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.
This is one reason why everyone loves Kerry Wood so much -- he's always been a standup guy about his failures.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. If Z
would just take responsibility for being too aggressive in the 3rd inning and say, "I understand the booing and will go out there and do my job" he would have lots of love and understanding from the Cub fans.  Just as Dempster always steps up when he f#*ks up, I think the Cub fans would see a maturing Zambrano if he understood that fans boo stupid play, period.  What Z did yesterday was stupid playing.  Time to accept it and move on.  Time to grow up too.  I really hope Lou convinces Z to take this path over the next day or two.
Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So right...
I have no problem with players coming out and saying "You know what? I stunk today." I remember earlier this year after Lou came out and dropped about 55 F-bombs on Dempster and then walked back to the dugout and after the game Dempster said something like "Yeah, I deserved that in that situation, I wasn't doing my job." That, I think, is the sign of a team player. Pointing the finger at someone else, especially the fan, is not a way to go about that situation. If you feel you were wrongly booed, keep your head down and go out and try to turn them into cheers, a la Jones and Dempster.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 4, 2007 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...
The booing last year and the booing yesterday are not comparable at all. The booing last year had to do with a frustrated fan base dealing with a horrific team and an imcompetent manager. Yesterday had to do with a player blowing up for the 6th straight time in the middle of a huge playoff race. I actually thought Z "got it" as he walked off the mound, got that maybe his complete lack of focus in this huge game wasn't going over well with the fans. Turns out he doesn't understand the passion of the fans. It's not as though this was just "one of those starts" that pitchers have. This was the sixth straight "one of those starts," and in a playoff push that is unacceptable. If you expect fans to cheer you also have to expect them to boo. Boos aren't always warrented, that's for sure, but yesterday was a case where Z allowed a team with an anemic offense to hang around in a game, and when you allow a team to hang around and give them chances to score, eventually they will do it. I just hope he can finally pull his head out of his butt and get back to being the dominant Z we saw during the middle part of the season, the guy we paid 91 million to.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 4, 2007 10:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I can agree
with never booing players who always appear to be giving 100%, even if they are in extended slumps ala JJ, etc. But there has been a couple different times we've discussed Z's apparent "giving up" in key situations, particularly after errors, bad calls, and the like. I don't have the specific games on recall, but I know we've talked about this aspect of his personality before. And it's a shame, given he's such a fierce competitor most of the time, whether he sucks or not. But those lapses into apathy are not acceptable at all and shouldn't be expected on the job for anyone over the age of 15.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

lol, az!
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Overreacting
Sure, Z did a couple of very dumb things yesterday. Running thru Quade's stop sign, and calling out fans through the media. Can't ever win by doing that.

But some people are freaking out. Trade him?! Are you kidding? Remember, he's only 26--the emotional maturity is probably the last thing to come. Didn't you do stupid things at 26? I know I did.

But someone who said that no GM would touch him in a trade?! Give me a break. Opposing teams would line up to work it out. He's supremely talented, and he will figure out how to harness those emotions at some point. I'm not giving him a free pass on yesterday's events. Just calling for a little perspective. Come on, people. It's one game--we have a month left, and we're holding first place in our hands!

by lapetino on Sep 4, 2007 10:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Booing...
If there is anyone in this situation who "just care about them(selves)" it is Z.

He has been around the last few years when I thought there was some unjustifiable booing of other players, yet Z has always mentioned his love of the fans.  Yet when it turns (justifiably IMHO) against him, it's the fans who are wrong?

Hopefully 24 hours will help cool the situation, but  with Z one never knows.

PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Sep 4, 2007 10:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The idea of booing
having something to do with whether or not one is in their home park vs. an away park makes little sense to me.

Players perform.  That performance is rated either by cheers, ambivalence, or boos.

It's the real world.  

"5-8-8, 2-3-hundred, Empire!"

by SyneRandberg on Sep 4, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
This was evident when his 1st prediction was to win the Cy Young and his second was to win the WS. Imo Carlos wants to be recognized for his individual accomplishments more than anything.

After Valverde's save in AZ, I said to myself I wonder what Z's going to do in his next outing. Sure enough in the 1st inning after a Fielder K he jumped off the mound, into a 360 fist pump almost as if he had to remind everyone who the biggest showboat in MLB is. Fielder ended up going 2 for 4.

Ladies and gentlemen I give you Carlos Zambrano.

You're killin me smalls

by TheRamZamDLEE on Sep 4, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This issue with Z
is not a one game occurrence. This is something we've seen throughout his career and have all hoped to see change. But he's 26 now, still young, for sure, but showing NO signs of development at all. More worrisome, he actually seems to be regressing, both numbers-wise and in attitude/maturity. These are the very reasons I wanted him traded over the last year, and why I don't feel he'll ever become what his talents alone would make him, i.e. an ace. He doesn't have the mental makeup for it, and there have been hundreds of players in every sport who never are able to overcome the mental obstacles they must face on the biggest stage of all, pro sports.

With the exception of his 2-month run, which was excellent to be sure, Z has been the weak link in our rotation. Just look at the numbers.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 10:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Today
As far as Im concerned todays game is what matters now.  Ill be at the game and Im hoping for three things.
  1. A win
  2. Trachsel to get me home before 11
  3. Marmol blowing away 3 straight hitters.

by Hammer on Sep 4, 2007 10:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Rally the troops, win today, and stay in first place.  Hopefully get a chance to increase this lead!

Go Cubs Go...

"The game is always healthier when the Cubs are good, and in a week they have made themselves a whole lot better."

by BillHoldenFan on Sep 4, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you have a chance
on 2 out 3.  

#2 is going to close to impossible!!

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
Trachsel = Midnight at best.  
"The game is always healthier when the Cubs are good, and in a week they have made themselves a whole lot better."

by BillHoldenFan on Sep 4, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that Central or Pacific time?
Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ron Santo
 Maybe Santo can have a talk with Z and make him understand a little better how to handle the booing. While those under 45 or 50 may have a hard time understanding how the now beloved Santo was treated during his playing days, the fans really used to let Ronnie hear it back in the olden days.

by jimhickman on Sep 4, 2007 11:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I hate booing and
calling players names. It's hard not to sometimes. Yesterday was one of those times. I was very pissed with Z's play yesterday and he made a huge error with his comments after the game. I hope he mans up and makes an apology to the fans soon.
I love this team!!!

by sue369 on Sep 4, 2007 11:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments
Most all Cubs fan are frustrated after years of losing.  I understand we all want to see the Cubs win a World Series before we die.  Many already have died without seeing this.  This frustration builds over the years and we're not as tolerant as teams that have won consistently.  We all want to win now and to see continued bad plays really is irritating.  Look, if the Cubs feel Z needs head help, then they should make the suggestions.  We have no idea what's wrong with him.  I still don't understand how you can be so bad, then so good, then so bad again.  Someone on the Cubs should have a clue.

Finally I don't think we should ever stoop to calling people names.  Calling Z fat ass and other personal attacks isn't right.  I believe it's OK to critique the players and even boo, but name calling shouldn't be allowed.  

by Saratoga on Sep 4, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Passion
The fans are passionate about the Cubs and want to win so they boo when things are going poorly.

Z is passionate about winning and gets frustrated when his game goes poorly and complains about the fans.

Let's cut each other some slack.

by vegascubsfan on Sep 4, 2007 11:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

2003 changed things
in my opinion. That is why you hear more booing of Cub players at home now. I don't think most Cub fans will tolerate the loveable losers tag anymore, or can say wait till next year with a smile. I know I can't. I was born in 1962 and have seen the Cubs make the playoffs four times, two of those resulting in monumental collapses. I was able to move on from 1984 because it was the first time I had seen the Cubs in the postseason at all. I haven't moved on from 2003. It may be pathetic to care so much about a baseball team, but I am emotionally invested in Cubs baseball. I suspect many of you here are as well. If I could keep watching this team last year, it is apparrent that I'm a committed fan. I'm tired of losing. A lot of Cub fans are getting frustrated; after all, it has been a hundred years for crying out loud. I think we are entitled. I have no problem with Z being booed due to the way he played yesterday. He stunk and as others have said, we all saw it coming after the baserunning blunder. He does it all the time and that is why he got booed. Zambrano has been a Cub since 2001, Lee since 2004. I have been a Cub fan since I went to my first game in 1968. I'll boo if I damn well please.

That being said, let's hope Trachsel can pull one out of his you know what and get us a win today. Go Cubs!

by qccub on Sep 4, 2007 11:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ditto
My first game was in '68 as well. I have and will continue to shed tears for this team that has ripped my heart out in 69-84-89-98-03. I hurts me that we haven't been to the Fall Classic since 1945 and there are teams (Marlins, etc.) that have been around for less than 30 years and have more WS wins than we have appearances!

I'm not going to go as far as to say they "owe" us a championship, but the booing is more an effect of 100 years of futility and angst than player's shortcomings. Yesterday, Z deserved to be booed. He hasn't performed well since late July and single handedly caused the loss yesterday. His comments all season don't sit well with the fans when he says he's going to win the Cy Young or he will turn back into the dominant Z again. And then to rip the fans on top of his other comments is BS. He got his payday, now perform.

The Cubs are on the cusp of winning it all this year and Z's antics/performance will be a big part of the reason why we don't. All of Cubs fans know that this team is not like the Braves, Red Sox, Minnesota or Dodgers in the fact that if we are not the wild card or division winner, we will be in the thick of it all season long. Either we get into the playoffs or we suck royally. We don't compete for the big prize year in and year out. We are tired of it.

The Marlins win the WS in their fourth year, blow up the team and win it again 6 years later. We struggle to get to the playoffs and then only 4 times in my lifetime. The Yankees have won the WS 8 times in that span. We're tired of decades of losing baseball.

"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Sep 4, 2007 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it seems
to me that most people would take it personally when half the wrigley crowd is booing at you, thats alot of people making you feel unwanted.

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 11:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not a big fan of booing
but there are times when it's appropriate.  When a player isn't giving effort he deserves to get booed.  When a player does certain things that are obviously selfish and detrimental to the team he deserves to get booed (i.e. whining about playing time, leaking in-house conversations to Buster Olney, telling people his shoulder has been barking when it hasn't, etc.).  And when a player clearly isn't focused on playing the game of baseball he deserves to get booed.  

I thought guys like Niefi Perez and Jacque Jones have taken a lot of unnecessary booing while wearing a Cub uniform, but yesterday Big Z deserved what he got.  It was clear that he lost his focus.  I don't know where his mind was after the 3rd inning but it obviously wasn't on getting hitters out or playing baseball the way it should be played.  Sulking on the mound and failing to back up home plate was the last straw.  He had it coming.  He was not simply being booed for poor performance, he was being booed for mentally checking out of the game.

by cubsbak on Sep 4, 2007 11:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I know this will not bode well with some of you,
but I don't think Z owes anyone an apology. Hear me out on this one before you boo me. I think he has every right to feel angry at the fans for booing. Yes it is a part of the game and yes people have a right to react to certain situations, but just like the fans have a right to react, so do the players. Booing doesn't solve anything. Does it make people feel better? I don't know, but I do know that it must make the player feel like crap, because when he walked off the mound yesterday, I felt bad, really bad for him. The look on his face said it all. Even though I wasn't there and did not boo, nor have I ever booed anyone, I felt a little dissapointed in us as fans for letting our emotions get the best of us and kicking Carlos in the cojones while he was down. Maybe an apology would make some fans feel better, however I think he was justified in feeling dissapointed. I hope he gets back on track and we can put all of this behind us on the way to the playoffs!
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Sep 4, 2007 11:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

couldnt
have said it better myself

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Booooo!
As I have stated, I curtailed my booing of the hometown guys - and I bit my tongue yesterday.

But people are entitled to boo if they wish!

Another poster hit it on the head - if you pay the equivilent of $75 to see __ your favorite band, and they were out of tune, missing lyrics, sections, play for 15 minutes, what display as a fan can you show your displeasure?

Baseball and all professional sports are ENTERTAINMENT! When one signs a $91MM contract, and the bar is set very high, in the mddle of when the player is counted on the most - and they continually give you what we got yesterday - than booing is NOT unexpected nor should be considered that we mean this as a "personal attack" on the player.

And - this ain't nothin' compared to what soccer players get in Z's own country! Where refs get chased down and pummeled after games...

I mean - let the player stand up as most of us have been saying, and own-up. Not riding the fans who were instrumental in getting him his money!

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you are condoning
people chasing down an ump, who is just performing a job, and beating him up? That is ludicrous. The only person who is responsible for getting Z his money was Z's performance(and maybe his agent a little) up until now. We cannot take credit for that. While I agree that baseball is entertaining, comparing it to a concert is ridiculous. When you go to a concert you expect to hear music. When you go to a ballgame, you expect just that, a ballgame. Sure we'd like a win and a great performance, but all we are guaranteed is a ballgame. Maybw it's just me, but I don't think that paying any amount of money to see a performance of any kind entitles me to behave like a jerk if the performance is lack luster.
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Sep 4, 2007 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Booing <> jerk
Booing poor performance is as old as baseball itself.  You can call me a jerk for booing all you want, but it won't change a thing.  I'm amazed that cub fans in general have waited until now to boo Zambrano to the extent they did yesterday.  

I think Cub fans have shown remarkable restraint where Z is concerned.  His behavior, and lately his performance, have been richly deserving of the fan's displeasure.

And if he really needs Cub fans to support him emotionally, he is doomed to a life of emotional turmoil.  Carlos is a man.  He needs to start acting like one and get his emotional needs met like other adults do:  family, friends, and (please, God) professional help.  Cub fans are, by and large, none of those things.

"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can call me a jerk for booing all you want,
, but it won't change a thing. Exactly. Booing won't change a thing either, it only adds to the frustration.
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Sep 4, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe for you it adds to the frustration
For me it relieves it.  If Carlos wants less frustration in his life, there are many effective ways to reduce it.  Asking fans not to boo a poor performance is most likely not going be one of them.
"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just sayin'
that I would feel like a big jerk booing a man when he is so obviously down. I choose to show him unwavering support and you can do whatever you want to do, but I don't have to like it/agree with it and neither does Carlos.
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Sep 4, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"I don't have to like it/agree with it
and neither does Carlos."

Agreed.

"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reply -
No. I'm sorry you misinterpreted my writing.

My point was that in HIS OWN COUNTY, soccer fans are much, much worse than the mixed boos he received at Wrigley.

I was merely trying to draw a comparison with something he is very familar with - and maybe participated in, with his favorite soccer club.

And he is as obsessed with soccer as we are about baseball!

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very Well Put
My sentiments exactly.  Plus this team is in first place and Z has been great for us over the last four years.  He deserves our loyalty and was turned on by many yesterday.

by tk5446 on Sep 4, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big Z
he will own up to it and set things straight.  he is going to be with the team too long to not makes things right.

if he goes out and pitches well next home start the fans will be back in their corner.  The fans were more pissed in the fact that the game got away so easily and no one could catch up to stop the dominoes from falling all over the floor.

The game had the feeling of being over before it was over and that most be frustrated to fans.  I didnt boo and usually dont because I like to take in the fan reaction but if he would just grow up a little.  Every strikeout isnt game 7 etc.

by Hammer on Sep 4, 2007 11:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Magic Number
Just to get off the Z subject, isn't the Cubs magic number actually 25 rather than 26?  My understanding is that it is calculated by adding one to the number of games remaining and subtracting the number of games ahead in the loss column.

Thus, the current calculation would be:

26 + 1 - 2 = 25.  

I'm assuming it's just an update issue after Milwaukee's melt down yesterday.  

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Sep 4, 2007 11:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Magic Number
True, the MN to eliminate Milwaukee is 25.

Although the Brewers are in 2d, the magic number to eliminate them is lower (25) than it is to eliminate the Cardinals (26).

PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Sep 4, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct...
... since the Cardinals have lost one fewer game than the Brewers.

Anyway, this will all even out after St. Louis plays (and, hopefully, LOSES) its makeup games.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Sullivan, Morrisey and Downey
What exactly are they going to do when the Trib sells the team?

Do they even know how to write something on their own? I fear that without the company talking points coming down from on high, these guys will be writing things like:

"We saw us a baseball game and it was good! All the players looked so pretty in their uniforms! Hey, the beer is good!"

by lancaster99 on Sep 4, 2007 12:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the cubs
have way too many fairweather fans

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 12:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And the Yankee fans don't boo?
Ask A-Rod.  If the diva pitcher can't handle the booing then maybe he should find another occupation to pay him $91 million.  I'm not a big fan of booing but it has always been part of the game and always will be.  

I bet a lot of the people blaming Mike Quade, the fans, sun-spots or whatever for Zambrano's melt-down were many of the same fans that blamed the contract woes for messing with Zambrano's psyche in April and May.  The diva is emotionally immature and he needs to grow up.    

   

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See you're pointing out the biggest problem of all
We're starting to resemble Yankee fans.  Yankee fans!

by Wreckard on Sep 4, 2007 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ZBORING
Aren't these guys like the Roman Gladiators
When they win they get great food .. women and
when they lose the lions....
Think of this ... what Phil Rodgers said in his
power rankings ...
11. Cubs (12): Steve Trachsel seems like a luxury item until you realize that he's pitching better than any of Lou Piniella's five starters. That's a little scary.
Hey Big Z Always has been an immature Kid... and
not showing much progress.... if we could just
get Scott Olsen from the Marlins we could have
a Juvenile rotation.........

by FlaCub on Sep 4, 2007 12:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hammer
There are also the diehards that are there through thick and thin and we matter.  Like I said I dont like to boo because I like to hear the crowd reaction for myself.

I specifically remember losing it completely in the right field bleachers at the end of the 2004 season.  The Cubs were blowing it bad as we all know and there was a pivitol bunt that C.Patt couldnt get down.  Regardless, I screamed at Corey the whole get about getting a bunt down etc.  

Fairweather fans...especially with the Cubs, if the Cubs were to win the whole country would be Cub fans, except for the haters.

by Hammer on Sep 4, 2007 12:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Boo...
I was at the game and understand the frustration. Mainly that after Z ran through Quade's stop sign, we all knew he was going to carry it with him onto the mound.

That being said when the booing started there were many in attendance that stood and cheered.
I don't condone the booing, but understand it. Just as I understand Z's comments after.

Anyway, hopefully Steve can right the ship tonight,(Can't believe I had to write that sentence.) and we can put yesterday behind us.
At least the Brewers and Cards lost too...

by Tangled Up In Blue on Sep 4, 2007 12:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

booing
Yeah, i understand certain situations call for home crowd booing, but i gotta say sometimes its pretty bad and makes us look bad. I can see booing at guys like c. patterson who we know is gonna strike out or guys like ohman, but a guy like z who sacrificed money to be here isnt right. however i do think this will boil over and z remains a cub. I just dont want cub fans sounding like Phillie fans.

by Diggs247 on Sep 4, 2007 12:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Disagree 100%
You would rather boo someone like Ohman who just isn't very good than someone like Zambrano who has a lot more ability than Ohman ever will?  

It's the players like Ohman who I don't understand booing.  They aren't very good, booing him is just like rubbing it in.  Zambrano (unless he is injured) is better than he has been showing for the past month.  If anyone deserves booing, he does.    

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and booing...
serves what purpose? it certainly isn't going to be a catalyst in increasing a player's level of play.

while i understand everyone's frustration, mine included, booing players serves absolutely no function, save self-appeasement for those engaging in the act.

in my view, the only time booing is warranted is when there is a lack of effort, which i don't believe is the case with the zambrano.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.
As I have said, it is a way of expressing displeasure with performance, just as loud cheering is a way of expressing PLEASURE about performance on the field.

That's all it is.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well...
at times, silence can be deafening!  ultimately, it is the choice of each fan to participate in the game in the manner they deem appropriate, booing or not.

i am as displeased and disgusted with zambrano's performance as anyone, but when considering the emotional fragility of zambrano, booing him very well may be prove to be counter-productive.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or...
it could turn out to be very productive, if it drives him over the edge enough for him to get help with his obvious emotional problems.  Z is NOT each and every cub fan's "little brother."  If he continues to believe that he needs cub fan's unconditional support, he will fail emotionally -- because that is simply not going to happen.

He needs a shrink, not cub fans sitting on their hands gritting their teeth.

"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bluesox
i'm certainly not advocating that zambrano be treated like a baby boy, he's been a huge (literally and figuratively) disappointment and simply needs to get his head on straight.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know you are not advocating
Z being treated like a "baby boy."  Z himself said that he wants to be treated like a "little brother" -- his words not mine.  My point is that we cub fans are not where he should be looking for emotional support.

He's just plain not going to get it from cub fans or any other fans when he performs poorly.

"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying it does serve a purpose
However, fans have the right to boo just as they have the right to cheer.  If booing causes a player such emotional stress then they should get a different career.

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When my kids screwed up
I yelled at them and they got the message. They subsequently screwed up less often. They knew it didn't mean I didn't love them, only that I was disappointed in their performance.

When a boss chews out an employee who is constantly coming in late and doing poor work, that employee usually improves their work habits.

Athletes,and especially pro athletes, have gone through numerous coaches who have chewed their ass. It's a process that isn't new to anyone.

Booing is the fan's method of telling an athlete stop screwing up. It's really that simple. And Z knows that if he wants to hear the cheers, he has to step up. Until he does, he'll hear more boos. It's his choice.

It's not too late to go to Soto

by tharr on Sep 4, 2007 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe
You would rather boo a loyal guy like Z who has done a lotta good for this franchise than guy like ohman who comes in and sucks then throws his trainer under the bus to excuse his poor performance??

by Diggs247 on Sep 4, 2007 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, maybe Ohman was a bad choice
because of his whining.  Substitute Rusch for Ohman.  My point was that if someone was going to boo, Zambrano deserves it a lot more than some scrub who isn't very good and won't likely be good.  The points over Z's loyalty or his fragile ego is BS, he's paid a lot of money to play and keep his head in the game.  yesterday, he completely failed.          

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Momentum
..why does it feel like this play, and the subsequent comments, will have an adverse effect on the strech drive..I hope not.

by laporte cubs fan on Sep 4, 2007 12:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The past
In past seasons, this would be a turning point in the wrong direction.

But this year the differene is Lou.  I think Lou will be able to keep this team focused.  He'll address what needs to be addressed in the clubhouse and lead a team on to the field today that is ready to win todays game and but yesterdays debacle behind them.  

Here's to a victory today!
GO CUBBIES!

by El Borto on Sep 4, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Dustystill were here
this would become a major issue and, in the end, he would have been using it as an excuse for late-season failure.

I don't think that's going to happen with Lou.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 4, 2007 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Lou weathered
a locker-room brawl with Dibble, and they went on to win the World Series, I am optimistic that he'll be able to impart a remedy here.

At least I sure hope so.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From your keyboard
to God's ear.  Good point.
"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, he SACRIFICED
He is making $18 million instead of $20 million!

by lancaster99 on Sep 4, 2007 12:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And the only place
he would have gotten a better deal is New York.  I wonder if the New York fans would have booed yesterday?

by rlpete on Sep 4, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...
New York fans would have stood and cheered the EFFORT!

And then they would have thrown flowers and offered to have sex change operations so they could have Zambrano's children!

That's how understanding New York fans would have been. Really, we should try to follow their example!

by lancaster99 on Sep 4, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can I make that sacrifice too, please?
If Z is going to depend on cub fans to care for him like a "little brother," Z is never going to be successful in learning how to control his emotions.  Be a man, Z.  Get yourself to a shrink.  I've done it.  I came away from the experience with both huevos one hundred percent intact.
"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I gave the benefit of the doubt to Z
with his tantrums on the mound: calling out some of the poor defensive play by his team.  Yeah, people argued, look how intense the guy is.  Look how he cares about the game.  That's why he has a sh*t fit when the shortstop mishandled the toss to the second baseman.

I also gave him the benefit of the doubt when he punched his own catcher in the dugout, and then later beat the sh*t out of him in the clubhouse.

I also gave him the benefit of the doubt when he pitched poorly this year--people were saying he was emotionally down because he hadn't been signed to a contract yet.

He's got his contract now, he's got his money now, his former catcher was traded away, and his team is in first place.

But running through a 3rd base coach, not covering home and having a sissy-fit, and then dissing the fans is pretty indicative that Z better grow up quickly....

With behavior like that, even if he were 20-0 now, he wouldn't get enough votes for a Cy Young.

by zevkalman on Sep 4, 2007 1:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The heel and the hero
I think Z has hurt himself with his fanbase.  We all love the Cubs, but how easy will it be now to boo a guy who basically says the fans are selfish?  Ever seen WWE wrestling?  The heel comes out and yells at the crowd to "shut up", the heel insults the crowd, and the heel gets booed.  We aren't wrestling fans, but you can see how Big Z is making himself the heel of the team by playing like garbage, and taking his frustrations out at even the fans.  He really should apologize, tell the fans he loves them, and become the good guy or "hero" once again.

by adam316 on Sep 4, 2007 1:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well - I see your point
and again, I tried hard to show restraint and did not boo.

But I understood it when some did.

I still strongly advocate, as others echo, that a "sitting down and talking" to him, is just enabling...

He is so amazingly talented, and a wonderful athlete, but will never attain the greatness he seeks without emotional control which he simply cannot maintain as things are.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 1:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Al: you typing, "Jay Mariotti had
it exactly right." must have been as painful as Fonzy sputtering and saying, "I'm wrrroonnnggg" on Happy Days (remember that?).  Of course that is the original Fonzy, not the low ball hitting lead-off hitter who will have 30 home runs before the end of the season.  :-)

Your line gave me a good laugh out of a tough day.  

I await the apology from the Z-man.  I hope he grows up a lot in the next 4 days.  We need him to stay within himself when he is on the field for the remainder of the season!

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 1:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

a couple thoughts...
While there are quite a few fair-weather fans, I am sure, there are a lot of us who have been here and will continue to be here year in and year out.  As someone said, there are some of us who stuck with them all last year even though it was a bad year...

Also, maybe the fan's mindset has changed here recently, but hasn't managements' as well?  Even before this past off-season they have paid quite a bit of money in the past few years to make this a winning team.  It was not that long ago that there were players who retired or left for other teams because they were disappointed in the efforts of the owners/management and their apparent lack of willingness to pay the money/get the players.  It's a little bit of a chicken or egg argument.

I was at the game yesterday and did not boo, although I understood those that did.  I also felt bad for Z because I knew that he was as upset as any one of us that was there, or watching, that he did not perform better.  I do not agree with the comments he made afterwards, though.  My mom had a coach in high school who would constantly tell them they should not be concerned when he yelled at them, that he yelled because he cared, that they should be more concerned when he stopped yelling.

Maybe booing is not the best reaction, but it has been done for a long time and is done by fans of many different teams...  I guess I see it as one of the few ways fans can convey their disappointment and/or try to light a fire under the team in their own way...  I agree with those who have said that we have been pretty patient with Z here lately...

Finally, I wanted to respond to the person who thought someone was condoning chasing after an umpire and beating him up.  I do not believe that was what he was saying at all.  Instead, Z - not only as a passionate/emotional person himself - but as someone who comes from a country that has extremely passionate sports/soccer fans should be able to keep the booing in perspective and also sympathize with it...  I think there was once a story about him staying up or getting up in the early morning hours to follow his soccer team.  I would be curious to see how he acts when he watches his team play.  I would bet he yells and screams more than any person there yesterday did.

by lji001 on Sep 4, 2007 2:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I know he wasn't really condoning it,
but to compare that type of violence to booing, is a little off, don't you think? That's just blatant battery and involves extreme anger.  I just think there were a lot of emotions involved here and the situation quickly got out of hand. We should just shrugg it off and move on. No apoligies needed.
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Sep 4, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he was condoning it...
... the way I read it, he was simply pointing out that Z comes from a culture where that sort of behavior occurs and is, on some level, accepted.

It's still wrong, of course.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES! YES!
That is exactly what I meant!

Indeed - he is as obsessed with his fave "football" club, as we are with our Cubs!

Maybe more.

And you can be SURE he's done some booing!

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There was only one
Referee/official I ever wanted to bodily harm:

Hugh Hollins

But, he was in New York, and I was here.

;-)

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 2:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hammer
"And did Hugh Hollins call a foul?!?!?! I dont believe this"

Great reference and it is burned in my memory, phantom call if I ever saw one.

by Hammer on Sep 4, 2007 2:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ray king
brewers got ray king from the nationals

by drodd on Sep 4, 2007 3:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow.
They must be pretty desperate. King's ERA has gone up three years in a row. His BB/K ratio is atrocious.

And have you seen him lately?

Frightening. It's his second go-around with Milwaukee -- they actually got him from the Cubs for a minor leaguer who never made it, in April 2000.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is the due date?
The Brewers may have a better maternity plan.
Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tears are running down my face...
... I am laughing so hard. Thanks! I needed that. We all needed that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maternity leave
OMG -- I really needed that laugh.. Thanks!!!
"I'm a Cubs fan. I'm very, very patient." -- from a Shoe cartoon.

by No Southern Belle on Sep 4, 2007 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's carrying
high, I bet it's a girl.
I love this team!!!

by sue369 on Sep 4, 2007 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the King's daughter is called a...
Princess. Swell! They already have their Prince. Is Yost the nanny?

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 4, 2007 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heres my take
I find it hard to believe that he just didn't see the 3rd base coach. On the replays he was quite clearly telling him to stop. I think that the running play was simply hubris on his part. The game was tied 1-1 at the time and he wanted to be the one to break it open. He got over-excited and decided to take the game onto his own shoulders. If by some miraculous play he had actually scored on that play he would have been given accolades for his play.

I like his fire. He is a man who wants to make the big plays. This is the type of guy who you want at the front of your team. It simply just didn't work for him yesterday.

"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"

by VicVega on Sep 4, 2007 3:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

For clarity purposes
I meant to say:

"If by some miracle he had actually scored on that play, he would have been given many accolades for the decision."

Sorry for both the lack of clarity and the run-on-sentence.

"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"

by VicVega on Sep 4, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To me
a real man accepts responsibility for his failures. We all have them. By refusing to bite the bullet and, instead, criticizing the fans, he has lost a lot of my respect. I still expect we'll get another apology from him and then we can move on with the race.
It's not too late to go to Soto

by tharr on Sep 4, 2007 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't agree
"It simply didn't work out for him..."

Sorry. Its a pattern of the Cape-wearing Z not being able to emotionally handle it when something doesn't go right.

It is much deeper than him simply just being able to "get the job done" yesterday.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
It was a poor decision. It was a terrible decision. It really wasn't his decision to make. The team even pays someone else to make this particular decision.

However I still like the fact that he is a man who tries to take things into his own hands. Excessive pride can indeed be a huge downfall. I would much rather have him playing his hardest than not.

He wants to win and is trying, which is enough said. The only concern I have is that this is a "team". He needs to for example learn to rely on the 3rd base coach. I think that in an attempt to make himself Super-Z-the-world-dominator he lost sight on playing good baseball.  

"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"

by VicVega on Sep 4, 2007 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the throes of a pennant race
it's not the most intelligent thing to blow off your 3rd base coach and kill a rally.

And if you do decide to do that, and it doesn't work....

...then a real adult would have sucked it up and stopped having hissy-fits...and pitched a good game from then on.

by zevkalman on Sep 4, 2007 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree completely
He handled this terribly. Given a mistake if he had just sucked it up, taken the blame, and worked on bettering himself things would look much better for him.

This is nonsense about trading him though. I still feel confident that he is trying his best when he is on the mound. When the best does come out of him, he is the ace we know and love.

"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"

by VicVega on Sep 4, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think
the fans are throwing more of a hissy-fit than Z was

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ding, ding, ding...
I think we have a winner here. Shake it off and move on. Go Cubs! Go Big Z!
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Sep 4, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are wrong.
Yesterday is a problem that is starting to boil over and I think Lou is now ready to address it in private when he says "Zambrano is trying to overdo."

Z continues to try to hit 5 run home runs and throw 4 out strike outs.  One of these days he will throw his back out.  He is an injury waiting to happen.  Let's be happy he didn't plow into Martin on that bone-headed play at the plate.

But I do think Lou will use this tipping point to get Z under control for the stretch run.  Onward Z, and onward Cubs!  Lots of work to do!!

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
I hope that this will have the same effect on him as the Barrett fight. Maybe he will be able to suck it up and start taking some names.
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"

by VicVega on Sep 4, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a strange way, I think it will.
I said a couple of time that yesterday for Z was like the drunk who rams his his car into a tree but is able to walk away.  He knows he is lucky and decides to change his life and stop living on the edge.  I really hope it is.  

We are all cheering for the guy.  He is a great competitor and only wish the best for him.  Everyone wants him to channel his energy into his winning and "contained self" the rest of the way.

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets
put it all behind, lets do some winning

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 3:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

<sigh>
You're right.  Booing or no booing, here's hoping this little episode is just a bump in the road to an exciting post-season.
"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows,
maybe it'll incite another winning surge like the one that happened after Z battered Barrett in the dugout and locker room.

by JFCubFan on Sep 4, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
...and this time maybe nobody will have to end up with a shiner.
"I took an IQ test and it came back negative." -- Woody Paige

by BlueSox on Sep 4, 2007 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only a
bruised ego.
You're killin me smalls

by TheRamZamDLEE on Sep 4, 2007 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 cents
Im disappointed in Big Z as he is truely biting the hand that feeds him....not in a paycheck sense, but if you were to reread the posts from when we locked him up, they were mostly positive.  I love Big Z for his emotion he brings to the game, whethere always appropriate or not.  Its nice to know he cares, how he does.  I found his comments disturbing, especially as I saw where Jake Peavy is asking for the ball ahead of his turn to try to beat the D-backs.  The booing at Wrigley is 99 years of pent up frustration.  Fans are tired of mediocrity, the players should be too.

by bigzaccountant on Sep 4, 2007 3:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

King v. Prince
I'd pay to see this "Royal" Sumo match on the dohyo in Fukuoka.
PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Sep 4, 2007 4:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Carlos is Carlos
Apparently what I have suggested is also suspected by other Cub bloggers:

"I've seen him twice in August. He just seems like he's slinging it up there. With the control and the way they've been treating him like a BP pitcher when he leaves the ball up, it seems to me he has a physical concern and might be favoring his back or shoulder. While he can get it in there at 96mph his mechanics do not allow for the tight release he had when he dominated hitters. In spite of what's being said by Pinella and Lee I don't think he's going to return to form and the Cubs chances rest on recognizing this and putting him on a short leash. St Louis and Brewers are not insurmoutable and even with an average finish the Cubs can get in. They significantly reduce this chance with sure loss starts like this. Finally, its too early to tell but did Hendry cripple the future prosects for this team by ignoring his inconsistency and immaturity and making him the centerpiece for the next 5 years."

I still think the guy is trying to pitch with some sort of injury. Carlos is always going to be emotional on the mound, neither Lou or anyone else is going to change that. His emotion wasn't that big of an issue last year when he was doing a terrific job. Yes, he is self-centered (like 95% percent of all pro. athletes), but he is still young (26) and is going to get better. Please no more talk of trading him, remember what happened with Lou Brock, Burt Hooton, and Bill Madlock, and others?

As far as this year is concerned, I say let him sit out his next start and see what happens.

For all his faults he is a fierce competitor. If his arm is o.k. then he should come back strong, but if I am correct in my belief that he is hurt, then it won't matter.

I loved it when Harry cried, "Cubs Win, Cubs Win!"

by Ken Hubbs on Sep 4, 2007 4:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Something else to remember about Z
Something else to remember about Z is English is not his first language.  Although he speaks quite well and has made leaps and bounds from where he was when he first came up, sometimes things come out wrong when it is not your first language like Sammy Sosa saying they had been beaten like rented stepchildren.
This is going to be the fall and winter of our content in Chicago.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Sep 4, 2007 7:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We boo because we care about them?
That makes absolutely no sense.

To me, booing is a reaction to someone who's unliked, or is the reaction to horrible play. I have never heard boos and thought, "Look how much everyone cares about that person!"

by JDay on Sep 4, 2007 7:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Carlos .. Get it together, boss ..
Carlos, you are embarassing yourself and your team when you rip on fans who have stood by you through thick and thin.

Come on, boss .. this just ain't right. This isn't an issue of you being our little brother and we're kicking you when you are down - it's that you aren't doing what we KNOW you can do and haven't been doing it for far too long. DEAL WITH IT.

You have the support of the greatest fan base in the world, the Cubs Nation and you are dissing those who vocally made their displeasure with your subpar performance made known .. what is that about? I thought when you walked off the field pointing to your head and tapping your ears that your gesture was body language saying "I hear you" and that you understood that there were a lot of your fans letting you know they were highly disappointed and upset. Heck, that's what I thought .. and I hoped you be taking that for the criticism that it is for not playing to the dazzling level you are capable of.

Apparently you rethought that after you walked into that locker room and proceeded to rip us saying we were only into ourselves.

Z, grow up. Now. Spare us the drama.

The Cubs Nation has always been behind you. We are now. Let's get that silly expression of frustration in perspective, Ok? Just dispense with the whining, focus and get out there on your next turn and pitch in a Third New Season, ok?

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Sep 4, 2007 8:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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