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More Z Fallout

Yelloncard_tiny by Al on in News

Amazingly enough, Jay Mariotti has it exactly right. Speaking of Cubs fans, he writes:

What, they should sit there like quiet sheep when the $91.5 million pitcher stinks? Like Zambrano, they are driven by emotion. When he's striking out batters, putting up zeros and pointing at the sky, they stand and roar. When he's running through stop signs and performing like a bust, they boo.

Precisely. Mike Downey got it right too:

The pitcher's attitude during a 11-3 dismantling by the Dodgers and his subsequent conduct and comments were disrespectful to the customers who pay to see him play as well as to the employers who pay his way.

To say of Wrigley's fans that "they just care about them" is to drive a wedge between them and yourself, which is the last thing Zambrano or anyone at Wrigley should risk doing with the Cubs in hot pursuit of a rare pennant.

Particularly when your team also has a "For Sale" sign posted out front and the new owner is going to be stuck with your five-year, $91.5 million tab.

Zambrano is going to need to do a little fancy pitching and perhaps a lot of fast backpedaling to win back the hearts of some of these fans.

Yup. Downey has nailed it. Bruce Miles says it might have been almost as bad as Lee Elia's ripping of Cub fans back in 1983. But I don't think it'll cause him to "waive his no-trade clause this off-season", as Paul Sullivan suggests.

Derrek Lee didn't like the booing either:

"I'm not a big fan of the booing at home," Lee said. "Maybe if it's a lack of effort, but 'Z' has been so big for this organization and gives everything he has out there, so I have a hard time with the booing."

He continued:

"The fans are passionate," Lee said. " But they have to understand we're human beings. We do make mistakes."

About that, he is 100% correct. We DO understand that you're human beings and that you make mistakes. Everyone does. We are not booing you, the human being. We are not booing your effort -- we know you're giving 100%. We are booing your performance.

Here's the bottom line:

If you, the professional athlete, love the adulation and cheers and roars that you get when, for example, you, D-Lee, hit a game-winning HR (as you did on Sunday), then you have to accept the negative sounds that emanate from the assembled multitudes when your performance is poor.

It really is as simple as that. For Z to say:

You know, I thought these were the greatest fans in baseball. But they showed me today that they just care about them, and that's not fair, because when you're struggling, you want to feel the support of the fans.

... isn't right at all. You heard the boos not because "we just care about us", but because we care about you and we want you to perform better.

I'll link again to this New Yorker cartoon to illustrate my point.

That's right, Z, and everyone else on the ballclub. We DO love you. Just go out there and perform the way we know you can. Go get 'em tonight. Go Cubs.

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Let's ride him
the rest of the way, hoping he can find something left before this season's over, and then trade him.

As I've posted elsewhere, Z is never going to be the stopper, the consistent go-to guy, the "ace" of a staff. He is far too fragile-minded and emotional for that. His comments are an affront to fans and his team. He is pathetic. Good riddance.

Maybe paying professional athletes assloads of money really isn't a good thing after all, because would you give a 10-year old $90mil? What a mistake.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 8:40 AM CDT   0 recs

It's going to be pretty difficult to trade him....
with that contract. Hendry could have saved himself some dough if he waited a few months on it. I really don't like the decision to pay someone as a remedy for struggling.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Sep 4, 2007 8:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He isn't going to be traded.
That's just a another stupid s*** stirring by the midget man Sullivan.
He would be extremely easy to trade with teams lining up for him.  

BTW for all the fans who claim to pay his salary, ponder this-
He will get $19 mil.  If he makes 35 starts and 100 pitches a game, he will get $5428.57 a pitch.  So you aren't paying much of his salary with your $40 ticket.  Heck, you're barely paying for an usher.

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 9:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You are kidding right?
All the fans collectively pay his salary. My $45.00 might be a drop in the ocean but nevertheless they contribute towards the big total. If fans are not paying his salary how in the world do you think he is getting his paychecks? I guess the Pirates would like to know this too

by cubsnlinux on Sep 4, 2007 9:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I pay far more than you do
and it still isn't giving me the right to "claim" I pay his salary.  And BTW, the majority of fans there yesterday weren't booing.  They were upset
and disappointed, but that's about it.  

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 9:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You bring up a good point....
I was at the game, and it just seemed that the fans were frustrated that the game quickly got out of hand, and then they booed.  I personally thought that it was not directed to any particular player, just the team.

But obviously if Z took it personally he has to know that he has sucked really bad lately.  You have gone 0-6 in your last start and the Cubs took over 1st place in that time frame.  Look in the mirror Z....

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 9:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well then you don't much about finance
and economics do you? Do you understand the concept of a shareholder?

by cubsnlinux on Sep 4, 2007 10:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dude
$40 X 40,000 fans = $1,600,000 per game

$1,600,000 X 81 home games = $129,600,000

That is one well paid usher.

by WittyUserName on Sep 4, 2007 9:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well dude
If you think you speak for 40000 people you are totally under the influence.  You and your $40 speak for yourself and don't pay for an usher.

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 9:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't understand
I honestly don't understand what this means. Seriously, what?

I wasn't commenting on booing or not booing. That is a message board debate that will never be finalized. I was simply pointing out that people who claim that they pay for the players salaries are right. Most of the money generated by the Chicago Cubs comes from ticket sales, which the fans foot the bill for.

by WittyUserName on Sep 4, 2007 10:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Totally mixed up cause & effect
First unlike the only professional sports franchise the Cubs are not "ours" they are a shareholders team. Secondly, there will be some fans who will ride him but reality is that he is going to pitch the next four of five games on the road and the pressure on him from his himself, teammates, sports media, friends & family is going to be far greater than anything you can apply. His performance will be a result of he and the coaching staff putting back mentally and physically Z to the area he can perform. Thirdly, thinking that paying an enormous pile of money results in better performance is actually counter-intuitive....the Cubs if they were only concerned about his performance being enhanced over the final 6 weeks of the season would not have paid him.

They paid him the money because looking out into the future there were few options or good options. Whether he is an ACE or merely a top of the rotation good pitcher more in line with his capabilities is immaterial to his contract, tell me what options were out there. As for trading, tell me what you expect others will pay.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 9:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Home Booing
I am not saying that the booing of Zambrano was not merited yesterday as his performance was unquestionably terrible.

I have been noticing over the last couple of years that there has been a definite increase in the Wrigley crowd booing the home team--even for some very minor mistakes.  To me, booing the home team is something that should be reserved only for the most egregious situtations.  While I don't necessarily agree with Z's comments, frequent booing of the home team does seem to show a lack of support and makes the fans look capricious.  

by NDCub on Sep 4, 2007 8:54 AM CDT   0 recs

maybe carlos could be a DE or LB.
if he wants to jump around, pound his chest, point to the sky, show up opponents along with all of the other antics he engages in he might want to consider a career in the nfl.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

completely agree
just wrote a diary on this...

by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 4, 2007 9:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree
The booing is happening too often.  This is a team winning their division.

Booing Z seems as though it will only compound the problems he's having on the mound.  Why not
back our ace thorugh this rough patch instead?

Those that feel the need to so vigorously defend their right to boo are obnoxious.  Some more loyalty would be nice.

by tk5446 on Sep 4, 2007 12:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Booing is totally appropriate
For continuous, boneheaded or idiotic play. Yesterday, Zambrano fell into this category.

Frankly, I've thought that Cubs fans don't boo enough, all things considered.

How well do you suppose Z's antics yesterday would have played in New York? Would Yankees and/or Mets fans showered him with roses instead?

Even the fans in Milwaukee were booing like crazy yesterday when the Brewers were blowing yet another game. Are they wrong?

Cardinals fans booed Kip Wells off the mound yesterday. Are they wrong?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 4, 2007 12:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Absolutely agree
If Big Z played for the Mets or the Phillies he would've been booed off the mound in May.  Cubs fans were right for booing him off the mound yesterday.  I was home booing at my TV.

That said, there have been instances in the last few years where I thought the booing was unjustified.  Yesterday was definitely not one of those instances.

by cubsbak on Sep 4, 2007 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The booing can be overdone
but yesterday, it was 100 percent justified.

If Z just went out there afterward and said "Yeah, I screwed up and I know I have to do better," I think the fans would have gotten back to his side. Fans love guys who "get it" in that way. As has been pointed out below, Wood and Dempster are good at always doing this when they have a bad day.

Now, Z is going to have go to out and kick ass on the road in his next two starts. If he doesn't, his next start at Wrigley could get ugly, at least in the grandstands.

And he has nobody to blame but himself.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 4, 2007 12:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I take pride
in the fact that cubs fans are not like mets or yankees fans

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess
i dont understand why the booing is needed, if its to let him know he didnt play well, i dont think you had to tell him, he probably knew that

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 2:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

please elaborate on this:
I take pride

in the fact that cubs fans are not like mets or yankees fans.

i truly do not understand the comment.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 3:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

some
were trying to explain that the booing is appropriate, giving examples that if Z were on teams like the Mets or yankees he would have been booed even louder, all im sayin is, why would we want to be anything like yankee fans, im probably not explaining this well

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 3:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

totally
Just because Yankee or Philly fans boo isnt a good enough reason to join in.  I mean the Yankees booed A-Rod for an entire season a year after he won the MVP and he still had an all star year.  Yankees fans are ridiculous.  We shouldn't look to them on how to support our team.

by tk5446 on Sep 4, 2007 3:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A few more days of playing like this...
And...that will be a dream from the past...
The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Sep 4, 2007 10:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All Cubs fans ask !!! Please think like PRO's
These guys are all superior athletes playing a kids game.

Please think during games.

  1. Twice in Z's last 2 game the opposing pitcher has hurt him at the plate.
  2. You learn in Little Leauge to pick up the 3rd base coach
"we all knew a melt down was on the way after he was thrown out at home"

3) I still go back to Soriano in the Mets Sunday night game trying to get to third base on a single hit in front of him.

Got to live their energy but we need these guys thinking as well.

Keep the faith !!!

by parrotinct on Sep 4, 2007 8:57 AM CDT   0 recs

Hammer
I was positive and commented to my buddy that Big Z was going to do something stupid coming off the field.  I was thinking a Black Jack McDowell moment.

Just about everything he did the whole game cost us the game.  Baserunning, reaching his hand out and losing his composure.  

Lastly, trade him? No unless the right deal came, but it wont.

by Hammer on Sep 4, 2007 8:57 AM CDT   0 recs

Zambrano trade?
...trade him? No unless the right deal came, but it wont.

What GM in his right mind would trade for the guy?  That much money for someone who's clearly unstable on the mound?  Who runs a team out of an inning?  That was a Shawon Dunston level baserunning mistake!

(Sorry to bring up the bad memories!)

by MN exile on Sep 4, 2007 9:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disappointing
Everything that happened yesterday with Zambrano was disappointing.  I don't see it being such a big deal with Z as it is with the rest of the team.  D-Lee's comments kinda make it sound like the booing may have bummed everybody on the team.  Also it cannot be a good thing for a team to see their pitcher get in fights with teamates and throw tantrums with no consequence, especially making the outrageous kind of money that Z makes.  Basically, his attitude and his comments about the fans and his poor performance can only hurt the team as a whole IMO.

by adam316 on Sep 4, 2007 9:06 AM CDT   0 recs

the problem with Z
is that we can say things like "We knew what was going to happen."

IMO this isn't a fan base overreacting because a guy simply had a bad outing. This is a fan base showing frustration with a pitcher who has repeatedly shown an inability to keep his focus after things start going poorly for him.

He talks about how he doesn't appreciate the booing. There are certainly places around baseball where he would be getting it worse.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Sep 4, 2007 9:10 AM CDT   0 recs

you got that right.
There are certainly places around baseball where he would be getting it worse.

i'd like to see zambrano come-up my way and perform the way he has in front of a yankee stadium crowd. hell, they'd have him crying on the mound.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i recall...
a couple of years ago when jeter got off to a slow start offensively, he was booed at yankee stadium almost mercilessly.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

who cares...
what zambrano's salary is and who pays it. whether a player's salary is the league minimum or $18 mil, the player is expected to play to their ability.

really, would any of us feel better if zambrano was only getting paid $2 mil a year?

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 4, 2007 9:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Athletes paradox
This is hard to describe but professional athletes are truly separated from the fans who support them, essentially pay their enormous compensation et cetera. Fans also propel or encourage performance that might be above the expectations or capability of a player or team. BIG MO or the emotional outburst from Sunday's game turned around 180 degrees when performance on the field was less than expected.

When Lee said he didn't like booing he was expressing a common thought that the fans are their to serve the players, there is reciprocity or two-way street, meaning poor performance might have a counter move. Yet since a player must put his (or her) heart and soul into a game, meaning their personality et cetera when they are boo'd they also will receive it personally as they also receive accolates personally.

Fans on the other hand are fanatics, they are there to see performances, results, and cheer along the way.

Zambrano is caught in his own quindry and only performance, at a level expected of him can overcome his dilemna. He is the quintessential Latin proud man, emotional and even impulsive, talented beyond many, yet fragile since his emotions are also his leveling agent. I am not condoning his statements or behavior in anyway, in fact they were as stupid as his blowing through a stop sign in the 3rd inning.

After signing the contract he is now going to think that he gave Chicago a $20-$30M discount, maybe yes or maybe no. Question what would have been his FA value based on performance over August and September to date....probably less than his agent is willing to admit.

This is now the time for Piniella, Hendry, Rothschild and Trammel to put Zambrano back together again. They will have to cuddle him at the same time tough love him, they will have to get him to focus on the moment instead of the anticipation or implications, they will have to rebuild his psyche. Fortunately for Z and the Cubs they will be on the road for his next two starts, ( Sat in Pittsburgh & Thurs in Houston) where the return to Wrigley won't be until Tues against Cincinnati, before again Z will pitch on the road in Florida and possibly the final game of the series in Cincinnati. Furthermore if the Cubs make the playoffs Z will probably start on the road against the WD winners of SD or AZ.

By that time I am expecting him to have pitched 4 quality starts.

 

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 9:17 AM CDT   0 recs

Why
are people so quick to call for trades, if some of you ran this team we would be in so much trouble because we would have traded away dlee, soriano, and zambrano by now.

by tizzle on Sep 4, 2007 9:18 AM CDT   0 recs

Small defense of Z
mike's comment above is correct.  The booing was NOT because of one or two bad performances.  It's because of repeated blowups.  That being said, I lay a good portion of the blame on Larry "I still wish Dusty were here" Rothschild (sp?).  After Z got thrown out at the plate trying to be a hero, he came into the game and walked the next hitter he faced on four pitches.  Rothschild should have been out there immediately.  Instead, he waited until Z was so far gone that when he did go out there, Z did not hear one word he said.  You could tell by Z's reaction that he wasn't paying any attention at all.  Most of the pitching staff is rock steady and very easy for Rothschild to handle a la Dusty Baker's hands off approach.  He has absolutely no clue on how to handle Zambrano.  The key to Zambrano is to get him laughing and having fun.  He's like a big kid.  Keep him laughing and it keeps him from getting scared.  Zambrano is an emotional guy, you just need to keep the emotions positive.  I know it sounds like I'm advocating babying him, but that's not the case.  His psyche is not going to change and Rothschild needs to work within that framework.  
Distracted. That's a funny word. I wonder if anyone ever gets tracted.

by CyberCyclist on Sep 4, 2007 9:31 AM CDT   0 recs

just a couple points
First it is never Rothschild's decision to go to the mound, it is Piniella's he is the field manager and if you watch the dugout there are many discussions during moments of decision but then Piniella makes the call. Second, do you think that Piniella & Co wanted to see how Z reacted to the situation.

Interestingly I think the blown stop stop sign is given to the excuse that Z had made up his mind to try to score the moment Soriano hit the ball and ran with his head down. Piniella interestingly stated that Z should never had even thought about it since it was no outs and the front of the order was coming up with a ball played in front of him.

One can point to minor league instruction here where the Cubs have had a poor result in having players come up in his era with mental baseball knowledge. C-Patterson, Choi, Cedeno to name a few.

As for Z listening to Rothschild, ultimately it was Piniella's decision to yank him or not.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 10:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i do think lou should go talk to zambrano
on the mound when he's falling apart.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Sep 4, 2007 1:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Myself
and several others here haven't been quick to call for a Z trade. We wanted him traded as early as last season, and certainly after his less than stellar start to this season. I've waited to see some sign of emotional development from this guy, but it's not happening. What you see is what you get with him. At this point, after his continued childishness and emotional distress, I am not fearful that Z will ever come to be an ace. He doesn't have the mentality fot that. See Maddux, Clemens, et al. for true aces.

Z is the proverbial headcase. He is Farnsworth in lion's clothing.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 9:33 AM CDT   0 recs

Aren't you mixing metaphors here?
I don't remember anything in "lion's clothing".  I think it's "sheep's clothing" and it would be a wolf that wears it.  

"Farnsworth in lion's clothing" sounds almost like something out of "Silence of the Lambs" or "Joe Dirt".

by NO100 on Sep 4, 2007 9:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That
was my point. I'm not mixing the metaphor, I'm playing on it, twisting it into its opposite, because Farnsy would've been the sheep, which Z is like, but Z looks - due to his size and demeanor - more like a lion?

And yes, it is meant to be an odd image.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 9:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ohhh ... OK
A bit too abstract for me before my second cup of coffee.  Very kafkaesque.

by NO100 on Sep 4, 2007 10:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll take that
as a compliment. Thanks. And I completely understand about the coffee. Incidentally, I'm making a second pot right now in my office.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 10:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

IT PUT'S THE LOTION ON !
IT PUT'S THE JOE DIRT IN THE HOLE!!!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How about this Z.........
you claim the fans are selfish and "just care about them", where were you when other players on the team were getting booed and the same kinda of treatment you got on Monday?

You only call us out when we do it to you, but you dont stand up for your teammates when it happens to them?  To me that is "just caring about you".

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 9:44 AM CDT   0 recs

give the fans a clue Higgy...what is going on in
the lockeroom right now. Lee now the unquestioned leader in the clubhouse came forward to protect Z a bit saying the booing was not good, but also criticized him for his baserunning blunder.

What else is going on?  

You are correct, Z has not stepped up to defend others and the statement that the fans (in the singular) care only about themselves, as what else are they going to care about, they are fans there to enjoy and cheer on the winning ways, why else would they fill the stadium each day to the tune of almost 42,000.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 10:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I am not sure..
What the fans believe happens in the lockerroom/clubhouse, but most of the time i can guess they are wrong about their assumptions.

To be honest, when a player has a bad game, he does not sit in front of his locker and sulk or anything like that.  Most of the time they are up running around and talking with other players joking around and what not.

And to be quite honest, they dont care what we as fans think.  Booing does upset them to a point but they get over it, because they have to.  Z knows this city, he signed a contract here to stay here.  He has been here for years and he has seen the booing, but never directed towards him.  Now it bothers him - seems a little to frustrating and selfish from Z who wanted to be here so bad?

I am not sure why he said this or what made him say this.  But something else that i know goes on in the clubhouse is/are the media.  They are hounds in there, and he probably was frustrated by getting asked the same question over and over.  (luckily i was off limits, they were not allowed to ask me anything :) )  But they are all over the place just looking for something to write about.  And sometimes it is overwhelming and too much of a circus.  And i am sure Z was fed up about them hounding him about his 0-6 stretch.

Other than that, the players really dont do much, some play with there PSPs or listen to their ipods or trade stories about things.

(but please note what i saw was under Dusty who was extremely laid back)

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

those are my experiences
After seeing the reaction in the papers, media and fans here even though Z is not going to read them directly (as he shouldn't) he will know that they are strong in his disfavor. The lockeroom and Z will move on but in the meantime I hope the staff and Z come together and put him together again.

His ball again was flat, meaning it was not heavy late sink. Once LAD figured he couldn't throw a strike more than 50% of the time they let him walk them into a big inning.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 4, 2007 10:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Walks...
have been his trouble since he came into the league.  Walks and high pitch counts.

by HIGGY on Sep 4, 2007 11:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Al, ...
... Well said!  Bravo!  It's about the performance, not the person.  It's akin to the old Catholic saw: hate the sin and love the sinner. - TL

by timlacy on Sep 4, 2007 9:52 AM CDT   0 recs

Bad Blood Now between Z & Cubs fans
His only redemption is to win games and better yet, win decisively.

Despite this bru-ha-ha, I'm still convinced that this team can sneak into the playoffs, it will all blow over in the end, and we will all be loving the guy and his emotional proclivities to death.

by JFCubFan on Sep 4, 2007 9:53 AM CDT   0 recs

Professional athletes are priveleged
to do what they do and to get paid assloads for it. It's just nice to see them acknowledge that more often. Maybe I'm a bit cynical or callous. After all, they are humans, too. But it stings average Joe's like me who have to watch these overgrown children making the money they do, acting as they do, for doing what they do. That's a tough pill to swallow, and I don't feel the need to ever stick up for a player when he's "calling out" us fans. Z is pathetic, and he's egomanical enough to think otherwise.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 9:54 AM CDT   0 recs

you seem jealous
of the money they make.  

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 10:00 AM CDT   0 recs

Actually, its envy
But never the less, he is paid a boat load of money (like Kegler's assload reference) to perform. Physical mistakes are always - or should be - tolerated. Mental mistakes can't be accepted. His focus is for shit right now.

I really think Z's game went south after he was thrown out at the plate. I got benched in HS and college for doing shit like that.

Z has to buckle down and listen to his coaches. He too often runs high pitch counts and goes to full counts unnecessarily, like before Esteban's 2R single.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 4, 2007 10:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree
I'm sure he got chewed out when he got back to the dugout after that bone head play and it probably affected him.

by cubswin on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ignoring Lee Crushing Z
Lee is an excellent player, he's done so much and handled himself so well that he gets cut alot of slack here.  If Lee makes boneheaded plays in the field he gets slack from the fans because he's an excellent player and his head is in the game, he also handles himself like a professional...Now Z on the other hand is a childish punk who needs to get his head out of his can and pitch well.  Z's career is full of unprofessional acts, selfish B.S. that shouldn't be tolerated.  Z deserves to be booed, he's a selfish punk of a player.  He's getting millions of support--get the job done and shut your mouth you boring selfish punk!

by DudeVf11 on Sep 4, 2007 10:01 AM CDT   0 recs

read through the game threads here
or listen to DLee's interviews

he hears it, he hears the negativity from the fans

by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 4, 2007 10:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I am sure that he does.
But fans are not booing Derek Lee.  I could easily interpret Lee's comments as him being a great teammate by trying to take some heat off Zambrano.

I am not sure what has given the Cubs players the impression that they will not be booed at home?  This is a childish approach to the game.  In general, Cubs fans boo at things that are boo worthy, e.g., bone headed play, lack of effort, talent that does not belong in an MLB uniform, bush league behavior...The players need an attitude adjustment or they should all quit--admit they can't take it and resign.  This team needs competitors and instead we get show boating wusses.  I can't root for this jackass Zambrano at all anymore, except to the extent that he can help the Cubs win.  If he's going to be a big baby then make a statement and trade his sorry butt in the off season.  

Also, I appreciate your comments and none of my post here is directed towards you or in an angry tone.

by DudeVf11 on Sep 4, 2007 10:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Zambrano's hair
Does he have blonde highlights now?  When did he get those?  And would that be the cause of the bad streak?

by Arbusto on Sep 4, 2007 10:23 AM CDT   0 recs

Right on Al!
As I said last night, I bit my tongue and didn't boo Z.

I DID boo Joe West (who not BruceFroemming alerted me to the fact he's "Cowboy Joe West"), and saved a hearty boo for the "Lethal LOOGY" Will Oh-Man!, whom I loathe.

I'm not a proponent of booing home town heroes anymore and stopped with JJones after giving much thought as I realized he really was giving 100%.

But I have my limits as well - and in this case - intead of calling out the fans, STAND UP and say, "I deserved it and I stunk!" People LOVE this here. Even Dempster gets a break when he owns up, right?

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 10:24 AM CDT   0 recs

Exactly.
This is one reason why everyone loves Kerry Wood so much -- he's always been a standup guy about his failures.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 4, 2007 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed. If Z
would just take responsibility for being too aggressive in the 3rd inning and say, "I understand the booing and will go out there and do my job" he would have lots of love and understanding from the Cub fans.  Just as Dempster always steps up when he f#*ks up, I think the Cub fans would see a maturing Zambrano if he understood that fans boo stupid play, period.  What Z did yesterday was stupid playing.  Time to accept it and move on.  Time to grow up too.  I really hope Lou convinces Z to take this path over the next day or two.
Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 4, 2007 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So right...
I have no problem with players coming out and saying "You know what? I stunk today." I remember earlier this year after Lou came out and dropped about 55 F-bombs on Dempster and then walked back to the dugout and after the game Dempster said something like "Yeah, I deserved that in that situation, I wasn't doing my job." That, I think, is the sign of a team player. Pointing the finger at someone else, especially the fan, is not a way to go about that situation. If you feel you were wrongly booed, keep your head down and go out and try to turn them into cheers, a la Jones and Dempster.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 4, 2007 10:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think...
The booing last year and the booing yesterday are not comparable at all. The booing last year had to do with a frustrated fan base dealing with a horrific team and an imcompetent manager. Yesterday had to do with a player blowing up for the 6th straight time in the middle of a huge playoff race. I actually thought Z "got it" as he walked off the mound, got that maybe his complete lack of focus in this huge game wasn't going over well with the fans. Turns out he doesn't understand the passion of the fans. It's not as though this was just "one of those starts" that pitchers have. This was the sixth straight "one of those starts," and in a playoff push that is unacceptable. If you expect fans to cheer you also have to expect them to boo. Boos aren't always warrented, that's for sure, but yesterday was a case where Z allowed a team with an anemic offense to hang around in a game, and when you allow a team to hang around and give them chances to score, eventually they will do it. I just hope he can finally pull his head out of his butt and get back to being the dominant Z we saw during the middle part of the season, the guy we paid 91 million to.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 4, 2007 10:29 AM CDT   0 recs

I can agree
with never booing players who always appear to be giving 100%, even if they are in extended slumps ala JJ, etc. But there has been a couple different times we've discussed Z's apparent "giving up" in key situations, particularly after errors, bad calls, and the like. I don't have the specific games on recall, but I know we've talked about this aspect of his personality before. And it's a shame, given he's such a fierce competitor most of the time, whether he sucks or not. But those lapses into apathy are not acceptable at all and shouldn't be expected on the job for anyone over the age of 15.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM CDT   0 recs