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Japanese Ballpark Analysis


Koshien Stadium in Japan, 2007; courtesy Wikipedia via the GNU Free Documentation License

Via MLBTR, I ran across this interesting article comparing all the parks in Japan, both to each other and to stadiums in MLB.

In general, the article says that Central League stadiums (the league in which Kosuke Fukudome played, although there are now interleague games in Japan as there are here) are smaller than Pacific League parks. However, Fukudome's home park, the Nagoya Dome, is relatively new (1997) and its dimensions are among the largest of the Japanese stadiums. Finally, Japanese stadiums, especially the newer ones, have (in general) taller outfield walls than US baseball stadiums.

There's a graphic with all the dimensions in this article, and a photo of Hanshin Koshien Stadium, the oldest and most revered of the Japanese parks (see this site for more; it's got ivy growing on the outside. Seems sort of like the Wrigley Field of Japan), taken during the annual Japanese high school baseball tournament (which the writer, a Canadian who lives in Japan and works as a translator, calls "culturally similar to March Madness"). I personally have been to both the Tokyo Dome and Seibu Dome. The former is similar to the Metrodome and Tropicana Field; the latter an outdoor park that was retrofitted with a roof (which doesn't completely enclose it, just keeps most of the wind and rain out). Both of them have dimensions not dissimilar to most modern major league ballparks.

Since we now have a regular poster here who actually lives in Japan -- maybe dragonsfanatic can take a look at this site and let us know his take on it, especially as it relates to how Fukudome might do in his first MLB season.

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Nagoya dome dimensions...
RF/LF: 328 ft
Power Alleys: 380 ft
CF: 400 ft
Wall: 15.7 ft

Those dimensions are somewhat similar to Wrigley (larger power alleys, shorter down the line.  Wrigley is certainly not known for being a large park by MLB standards.  

I did some quick research and found there were a few parks with very similar dimensions to the Nagoya Dome (~328 down the line, ~380 in the alleys, and ~400 in center).  Those were the biggest parks in Japan.  The other parks were generally around 300 feet down the line, 360 in the alleys and 380 in center, with walls ranging from 11 to 15 feet.  

This would explain in part the decrease in HR by Japanese players in MLB.

by SouthernCub on Jan 13, 2008 8:27 AM CST reply actions  

Actually
those dimensions are quite different from Wrigley Field.

Wrigley is very long down the lines (355,353), short in the power alleys (368) and fairly short to dead center.  The 400 foot marker at Wrigley favors right center, and dead center is probably around 390 or so.

Balls hit to straight left or right, are relatively easy to hit out at Wrigley (area when the bump comes in to the power alleys).  Beyond that, it all depends on the wind.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 14, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I said SOMEWHAT similar...
in that they aren't 300/360/380 like the smaller parks in Japan.  Obviously no park is identical to Wrigley's asymmetric dimensions, but overall it's reasonably close.

The deepest part of Wrigley is 400 feet (slightly to RC), roughly the same as Nagoya's deepest part (straightaway CF).  Down the lines are much deeper in Wrigley than in Nagoya (355 versus 328).  The power alleys are 12 feet more shallow at Wrigley.

All in all, it is what I would consider somewhat similar in depth.  Wrigley is a lot more similar to Nagoya than most MLB parks in terms of depth, and Nagoya is a lot closer to Wrigley's dimensions than most of the Japanese parks.  That was my point.

by SouthernCub on Jan 14, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

don't care about HR's
Chicks do dig the long ball. But Kosuke's happily married. So that little need for motivation is beneath him.

I won't care about HR's if Dome only becomes a good, solid consistent lefty hitter who can poke opposite field doubles and triples at the right time when the Cubs have RISP. That's the bread and butter need of the Cubs right now, and if the indications are correct, he's going to fill that need in a great way.

Even in the caverns of places like Coors and Minute Maid, Kosuke - after making his adjustments - should do well. Watching him gun someone down at first will be a rush.

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Jan 13, 2008 8:51 AM CST reply actions  

Just wondering, but
why does the field in the photo have no infield grass? That field doesn't look like it was originally a baseball field
Dinosaurs? "Didn't exist. You can't say there were dinosaurs when you never saw them." -Carl Everett

by NDcubsfan on Jan 13, 2008 9:57 AM CST reply actions  

The ballpark we hate the most
Al, thanks for posting the picture of one of the ballpark we Dragons fans hate the most... in case when our public enemy Hanshin Tigers plays...;-P

I like to watch high school baseball much as I have posted 50,000+ Okinawan high school baseball photos on flickr, and their highest goal is winning national tournament in Koshien Stadium (good to find those kids are playing in the photo you posted). Yes, I respect the history, some leaves of ivy on outside wall (now all cut down for makeover of enlargement in this off-season), but we really hate it when with the guys in black yellow pinstripe... Recent years we've been winning over Tigers at Koshien, that made us feel so good.

Another ballpark we hate the most is Tokyo Dome - where the pitchers nightmare as the article writes. Not just it's smallness, but it is frequently rumored that the air conditioning wind blows maximum from infield to outfield when Tokyo Giants are hitting, and it's turned off when visitors are hitting... This kinda homerun is called "Domerun" (not Fukudome's homerun, but homerun at Tokyo Dome).
So rich Giants buys high priced long ball hitters from outside every year (just like their associate New York Yankees), and we Dragons grows the league's best pitching staff these years to play half of season at Nagoya Dome - the pitcher's park. Again it was so sweet when Dragons beat Giants badly 2 years in a row at Tokyo Dome - in 2006 to win CL and 2007 to win CL playoff.

Actually Nagoya Dome was carefully designed after complete research of Tokyo and Fukuoka Dome, from architecture to retail system, and talked with the ballclub then built a pitcher's park... we used to play at one of the worst hitter's park, too small Nagoya Stadium, so it's quite natural move for the change of Dragons under manager Hoshino and Ochiai.

Anyhow, I actually don't like artificial turf - but I know it's too hard to keep the season schedule against the long rainy season without the roof in current NPB system. Hope most of domes will introduce softer turf, or natural turf with retractable roof to avoid knee pain... Also, I don't think dirt diamond is non-pro-level ground as the article says. This is another part of Japanese baseball tradition, and it's artistically maintained. We used to have a couple of ballparks with natural turf infield, and most of them were replaced with artificial or dirt, only remaining at Kobe as far as I know. It's simply different.

Another thing is that I believe the decline of # of homeruns of Japanese hitter in MLB is NOT the matter of the size of ballpark, naively - it's the matter of styles of baseball they plays, especially Hideki Matsui's case. I don't even see that many his fly balls over there thoughout each years, which might become homerun in Japanese ballpark. It's the matter of difference and changes of baseball itself, pitchers, pitches, zones, pitching strategy and tactics, and finally how he adapt himself for them. With Tokyo Giants at batter's heaven Tokyo Dome, he hit monster homeruns with powerful and big swing, and Dragons manager Hiromitsu Ochiai, the 3-times triple crown guy, pointed out particular technical shortage of  Matsui's swing (move of right elbow), and clearly predicted Matsui's homerun won't reach big numbers what Yankees expected for, before Matsui moved to US. Finally Matsui struggled to changed his swing much compacter, tried to hit more outside balls, to center to left, and produced a lot of grounders to second baseman.

Regarding Fukudome (I'll call him as such to avoid confusion of Dome and dome.... just in this article), he is originally not a HR king type of hitter - he is the lefty man of more doubles, better average, OBP, OPS and RISP average. His number for OPS and HR might decline especially in his first year with Cubs, but his strength and characteristics would fit to #3 or #5 spot better, I believe. Also, many of his typical homerun is a  big hit like this, and doesn't matter the size of ballpark the article discuss - he is the mistake hitter until he's in the hall.

So - my initial impression on this is - the size of ballpark doesn't matter for Fukudome at all. He also has good experiences playing internationally, so his learning curve should better than other Japanese unaverage hitters, I hope.

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 9:59 AM CST reply actions  

Thanks for all this great info...
... and the YouTube clip.

I would expect HR to decline in his first year in MLB, but not SLG, as he appears to be more a line-drive hitter, as you have pointed out before. Especially in Wrigley Field, which is well-suited for a gap hitter (which Dome appears to be), he could easily hit 40 doubles in 2008.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

There actually is a smidge of...
...park factors for Japanese ballparks. The Dragon's home park is the best park for pitchers over the two years.

These are old, one-year park factors, and so I'd take them with a grain of salt. (Those 2000 park factors for the Yomuri Giants are particularly suspect.)

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 13, 2008 10:14 AM CST reply actions  

Koshien Stadium looks like....
... a pumped up version of any number of Spring Training facilities. They must lose a lot of baseballs over the top of the stands all around the park.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jan 13, 2008 10:15 AM CST reply actions  

It's just different
As I commented below, the dirt diamond without any grass is the standard format for most of Japanese ballpark, even newly built stadiums. No one try to build one with grass infield even they are well budgeted to put and maintain infield grass, such as a brand new one in Naha, Okinawa planned to open in 2010 (not for professional ballclub).

Anyway, all Japanese infielders used to play on durt for long time since kids, maybe first time on artificial turf at high schoold prefectural tournament finals (at CL/PL ballpark) or college in their experience.

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

This may be...
... one reason Kaz Matsui had so much trouble with the grass field at Shea Stadium when he first signed with the Mets. He had probably never played on a field like that before (except in his spring training in Florida with the Mets the year he signed).
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Right
That's the biggest reason per his quotes.
He needed 4 years to be one of the best second baseman in majors from one of the best shortstop in NPB.

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Looks kinda, somewhat like..
the old Arlington Stadium....prior home of the Rangers.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jan 13, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Excuse me, but I
had stated, "...a Canadian who lives in Japan and works as a translator, calls "culturally similar to March Madness", in my postings during early discussions on the potential signing of Dome, a couple months ago. I've been pimped!

I have been there during the National tournament and posted this exact phrase. I know you don't read all of our posts, but...

On another topic:

Sunday New York Times article,: "Cubs Take a Patient Path. Like 100 Years Patient." Worth a read...

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 13, 2008 10:49 AM CST reply actions  

NY Times article...
... is here. Nothing there that most of us here didn't already know.

I, for one, would rather not hear another word about the "100 years". This year's another chance, and I think the Cubs have as good a chance as any of the other contenders to win this year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

On The 100 Years Thing.....
.... I have a different take on that. It's part of the Cub culture, and something that's an obvious fact. Rather than try and minimize it, which with 100 years of anything is very hard to do, I embrace it. That's one reason why I have one of those "Any Team Can Have A Bad Century" shirts I linked to in another thread a few days ago. It's there, there's nothing I can do about it (I certainly had nothing to do with it), and I'd rather laugh and have fun with it than get angry about it. There has been some very good baseball played during that time by some very good players, and within that 100 years involving the Cubs and their opponents there have been some moments for the ages. Yes, this is another year, but when the day does finally come that the Cubs win it all, it will play no small part in why the celebration that follows will be the mother of all celebrations.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jan 14, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

True enough.
I guess my point is, I'm sick of hearing the same old stuff, particularly from out-of-town reporters.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 15, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Explaination...
meaning - I had mentioned this opinion on the Nippon National HS Baseball Tournament 6-8 weeks ago...

Didn't get it from a "Canadian writer", either.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 13, 2008 10:51 AM CST reply actions  

I believe you.
Maybe he reads this site. Who knows?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

The comment to which you refer...
... is here, posted on December 9, 2007.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Koshien tournament and March Madness
I've actually and frequently used March Madness as the equivalent of Koshien (HS baseball) tournament to explain for the people of other countries for long time... no other examples I can imagine of.

Just winning prefectural tournament to make Koshien to be one of 47 attendees is like this... and the losers are like this..., the scene is same everywhere...

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Its all Good Al!
We are SO FORTUNATE to have Dragonfanatic helping us  out!

Dragonafanatic - One thing I do not recall - is there GAMBLING on the High School National Tournament? Is it prominent? Another interesting thing is Cheerleaders! Are the rivalries really intense?

Thanks!

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 13, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

My pleasure...
All private gamblings are illegal in Japan, except public ones like horse race and bicycle race (aka Keirin) etc... but all we know many people bet on the winner of Koshien within small group of people, quietly...

Cheerleaders doesn't look very different...

As we have 47 schools to compete from 47 prefectures, no very particular rivary at Koshien (the result of Koshien tournament makes personal rivary in NPB), but there are so many rivaries reside in each prefecture... in Okinawa, we currently have 2 early-round-pick-candidate pitchers, and their final meeting will be upcoming June-July... this is going to be so hot.

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

With 47 teams...
... an odd number, how do they organize the tournament? Someone has to get a bye in an early round, right?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

That makes sense now.
I note on that Wikipedia page the mention of "Hakone" -- I traveled on the Hakone Ropeway when I was there; among other things it provided a spectacular view of Mt. Fuji.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Koshien
Actually one of my ambitions is to go & see some of the Koshien tournament having watched some of it on TV during my visit in 2007. I mean doesnt that photo look great with the mountains in the distance. Oh I wish it were the season already.

by Stan Cox on Jan 13, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions  

The Great final - Summer 2007 Koshien
The final of 2007 Summer Koshien was a great game - everybody's favorite Koryo led underdog Saga-Kita 4-0 by top of 8th... Koryo's starting picher Nomura tossed 1 hitter thru 7 innings... Then in the bottom of 8th, Saga-Kita suddenly made it 1-4 with bases-loaded walk by vert controversial judgement, then the clean up boy hit the monster grand slam to make it 5-4, and became national champs....
You can watch whole bot 8th here.

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

2007 final
Just watched the video. The Umps were not giving the pitcher anything were they. What a feeling to hit that HR. Now I wish it was the season even more ^_^

by Stan Cox on Jan 13, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Man what a moment
That kid will be flying high for a life time.  I hit one home run in my high school career and it was a grand slam.  I dont think my feet touched the ground as I ran around the bases.  It was a magical moment and still is my top memory from playing baseball for over 20 years.
2008 has to be the year, doesnt it?

by indytaz on Jan 14, 2008 6:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Great picture
Al, that is an awesome picture you put at the top of this post of Koshien Stadium. Something about that view kind of reminds me of the view from the RF stands at Fenway Park. I enjoyed the post.

by ccd on Jan 13, 2008 2:41 PM CST reply actions  

You're right!
The light towers and the angle of the roof behind the plate do look sort of Fenway-ish, especially the pre-renovation Fenway.

I'd love to go back to Japan and see more of the country, not just baseball, but also take in some Japanese games. Someday...

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

And I have to tell...
...that Koshien is the place that Fukudome was injured his right elbow, when he made a great throw from RF to 3B to tag runner out on Jul 15th, which forced him a surgery and he missed the 2nd half of last season...

What a sinister place when Tigers are playing there! X-P

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 3:10 PM CST reply actions  

Good call
On being before they put up that press box and all. My first few trips to Fenway were before the press box and all. It gets harder and harder to remember though.

I have never been to Japan. I wish I would have went like you did when the Cubs played the Mets over there. That had to be a blast. I would love to travel through Japan one day. It looks to me like Koshien Stadium would be a 'must see' on any trip to Japan.

by ccd on Jan 13, 2008 3:17 PM CST reply actions  

It was a blast.
Do a search of this site for "japan"... I posted the written diaries I made when I took the trip there, about two years ago, along with photos.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey
Don't skip Nagoya, the home of Dragons and where Dome had played for past 9 years as a Dragon... even though Osaka is the sister city of Chicago...

Or you can come down to tropic and exotic Okinawa islands...

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Looking at the map...
...I wasn't that far from Nagoya when I lived in Japan. I was stationed at the Marine Corps Air Station in Iwakuni for a year 'round 2001-2002, in Yamagutchi Prefecture.

Sadly, I didn't see any professional baseball games, although I did see some intramural matches - we'd call them "beer leagues," I guess.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 13, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Chatan, Okinawa
Well, my hometown Chatan, Okinawa, where Fukudome stayed for past 9 spring trainings as a Dragon, is totally surrounded by Kadena Air Base, Futenma MCAS, Camp Foster and Camp Lester...

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

One of these years...
... I will get back to Japan. I really enjoyed my trip and want to see more of the country, particularly areas outside of Tokyo.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I quickly read thru....
... your trip diaries here... looks like you had great fun.
So you've finished your first tourist steps of Japan, next you should go deep and outside Tokyo, beyond Hakone... I've sometimes joined with my American friends for trips, as I know good the non-touristic, real Japanese hospitality stuffs, but they are so good (as my friends said)...

Tokyo is the super-duper monster city, but you should know most of it are made of stuffs came from outside of Tokyo.

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 13, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll be sure to let you know...
... if I ever decide to return to Japan. You sound like you know a lot about the country, plus your English is quite good so you could help translate for me!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Me Too!
Its been since mid-80's for me.

There were 244 yen to the $dollar!!

"What a deal!"

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 13, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Feed enough beer to the trixies in RF
.. you'll get enough cheerleaders then ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Jan 14, 2008 1:30 AM CST reply actions  

Domes....
....oooooh makes me cringe.

I don't care about Kosuke-san being able to hit HR's. Just provide an OBP > .380 and let everything else (offensively) fall into place.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 14, 2008 6:51 AM CST reply actions  

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