Clement a Cardinal

by elgato on Jan 3, 2008 3:23 PM CST Comment 48 comments

MLBTR, citing the Post-Dispatch, says Matt Clement has signed a major-league deal with St. Louis. Depending on the dollars, this could be a very shrewd signing for the hated Cardinals.

Clement was one of the few Cubs in recent years who left the team on good terms. I was kinda hoping the Cubs would give him an incentive-laden deal.

As it is, I really hope Clement doesn't put it back together for the Cardinals. I fear what La Russa and Duncan can do with veteran arms.

Am I worrying too much?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I read on mlbtraderumors (on the blog)

....someone said Mulder/Carpenter/Clement sounds like the writing of a great episode of MASH.

Get your goatees ready.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Jan 3, 2008 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yes youre worrying too much...

this guy wasnt that great to begin with, he was mediocre at best as evident by his 87-86 career record and 4.47 career era....I dont think the cardinals are anybody to fear this year...besides, their lineup isnt all that great anyway, other than Pujols of course.

I dotn think Clement at this point is any better than marquis anyway.

Toby Flenderson represents all that is wrong with the paper business.

by bren on Jan 3, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

pujols

to be honest, i think he will get the bonds treatment. every time he is up there, why not walk him? There isn't any threat in the lineup besides Pujols

Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Jan 3, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Elgato is worrying too much. Absolute best case, Clement might be a #3/#4 type starter but that's very unlikely. He's been pretty banged up the past couple of years.

He was only a mid-rotation guy to begin with. He is older than Carpenter when Carpenter went to the Cards and he wasn't as good a prospect either. Carpenter was a very high prospect with the Blue Jays.

I wouldn't worry about the Cards this year. Their season prognosis is between bad and very bad based on how much Pujols can carry them.

by rlpete on Jan 3, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

....it will be nice to

....not worry about the Cards, I just have a feeling they will flat out suck.

I agree, why even consider pitching to Pujols when you dont have too. That surly man child will gain an attitude and probably express it once or twice.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Jan 3, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right

If the Cardinals idea of improving their rotation is signing a mediocre oft injured veteran like Clement then we really don't have anything the fear. If he'd signed with the Cubs it would have been a minor league make-good type deal. The Cards are counting on him (or should be). Enough said.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 4, 2008 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Marquis is probably better

At least he can pinch hit/run for the Cubs. The Cardinals used to be a fine organization, but the last two years have been baffling for them. I have as much dislike for the Cardinals as any Cubs fan, but you did at least have to respect them. This move doesn't scare me one bit either.

by Nibbles on Jan 3, 2008 3:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Last 2 years?

In the last 2 years they won a championship....?

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Jan 3, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I believe

Nibbles was referring to the off-season personnel moves following the championship...

"Look, what's important is to be in first place on the last day of the season." -Lou 8/1/07

by 26.2cubfan on Jan 3, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have not seen any wire service...

... story on this, not yet, anyway, just a note on Bernie Miklasz' blog at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

Those who worry about this are remembering the 2003 Clement. It's four years later, he's coming off arm surgery, missed all of last year, and will be 34 in August.

Romanticize the past if you like, but the Cardinals are grasping at straws.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 3, 2008 4:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

not romanticizing

My concern is that the Cardinals are better at "grasping at straws" when it comes to rehapping struggling/injured pitchers than any other franchise.

That said, I didn't realize Clement was 34.

by elgato on Jan 3, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's St. Germain's rundown

Of the of the prospects in the NL Central

Surprised where he had Soto.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 3, 2008 4:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not really surprising

just looking at 2008. After Votto, Soto will quite likely but up the second best fantasy numbers in the division.

Long-term, Bruce and Rasmus are better prospects but for 2008, it is not guaranteed that they will even start. Right now, Votto, Soto and Towles are probably the most likely starters. However, the Hamilton trade makes Bruce much more likely to get playing time.

LaPorta for Milwaukee looks like another big-time slugger but the problem is if he is in left then Braun has to move back to 3B.

by rlpete on Jan 3, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Surprised why?

I'd say that's a fair position.

Also, keep in mind that's a ranking for fantasy purposes (Rotoworld), not necessarily reflecting real-world value.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 3, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Surprised because

Maybe I'm just skeptical about Cub prospects in general but even more skeptical because other than last season in AAA, he was consistently average in the Minors.

His success with the Cubs and in the playoffs, is a little reassuring, but I think that many people might be expecting too much from Soto, from last year's success.

He's more realistically will put up a line of .270 13 HR 65 RBI. Which with his Defense, would be fine with me.

Not sure though if that would be fine with many other Cub fans or especially fantasy owners.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 4, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Considering he's a catcher

That's not horrible. What other catchers can put up numbers better than that? Martin, Martinez, umm... Posada, that's about it.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jan 4, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and Mauer

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jan 4, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But for a Central Division rookie

those numbers could very likely be as good as any other division rookie in 2008. Votto might be the only "guarantee" to top that. Considering he's a catcher, those numbers are pretty good. I think that's the basis for the ranking.

by rlpete on Jan 4, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Never said it was horrible.

But from some posts on this board and other Cub message boards, I think a lot of Cub fans think Soto will more likely put up a line of .290 25 HR's and 90 RBI's.

I would be thrilled with a line of .270 13 HR's and 65 RBI's. I think the RBI's could be a little high, but with the hitters he'll have in front of him, very possible.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 4, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be thrilled with that, too.

I don't see Soto as a 90-RBI guy, not in 2008, anyway. How many NL catchers had .270/13/65 numbers in 2007? (Answer: three. Brian McCann, Russell Martin and Bengie Molina. A couple others hit more HR but had lower averages.)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 4, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soto

There's nothing wrong with some fans hoping Soto puts up 290, 25 HR and 90 RBI's. If he hits like he did last year he could very possibly do that. I know Soto never put up big numbers like that in the minors in the past, but he always had a good OBP, and it's not unrealistic to think Soto finally figured it out at age 24. I'm sure his weight loss of 30 pounds did help him some as well.

But I think most realistic Cubs fans would be happy with 260-270 with 12-15 HR, 60-65 RBI's with a 340-350 OBP. Mix those numbers with quality defense behind the plate and he's a upgrade from what Barrett gave us from 04-06.

by cubsfan25 on Jan 4, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I still love Clement

I wish him a low ERA and lots and lots of UNEARNED runs and games blown by the bullpen.
FYI Clement did not have a "goatee", He had the strangest chin hair I have ever seen and I still prize by bit of adhesive backed carpet bought in the parking lot of the Marlins Stadium before
his 2004 NLCS game ( which he won). In fact Clement does not get credit for winning two of the most crucial games in 03 the above mentioned Game 4 of the playoffs and the clinching game against Pittsburgh. By beating Pittsburgh in the 2nd game of the DH , Clement made it possible for the Cubs to have their regular
and best rotation for the playoffs.

I may hate the Cardinals but I will always love Matt.

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Jan 3, 2008 5:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Um I meant 2003 NLCS game.

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Jan 3, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And if Baker was smart

Clement should have pitched out of the pen in Game 7.

by rlpete on Jan 4, 2008 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you on Clement

I was sad to see him go. Now in hindsight, it's a good thing he went. I just wish he wasn't on his way to the Cards. I hope he does good...but not too good.

Anxiously awaiting the arrival of Opening Day '08

by love the ivy on Jan 3, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i always really liked clement...

i got his autograoh at a game once. not that ball means nothinbg to me... maybe i'll go over to viva el birdos or w/e its called and put it up for auction...

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Jan 3, 2008 6:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Clement....

has never really been the same since he took that line drive right off his head a couple of years ago. Still the worst beaning I have ever seen a pitcher take off a batted ball. To his credit, he came back from it, but he's never regained his 2003 form.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Jan 3, 2008 6:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Clement

I think the Cardinals signing Clement is a good signing. It only costs $1.25MM with $5.25MM in incentives. Good low-risk signing if he doesn't do good don't pick up the option for '09. Its good upside and not much of a downside......

by Calhoun on Jan 3, 2008 10:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully

the Cubs come up with a countermove, like the Red Sox and Yankees have been doing for years.

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Jan 3, 2008 10:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

A "countermove"?

You're talking as if the Cardinals just signed Johan Santana, not a guy who hasn't thrown a major league pitch in a year and a half and has had major surgery.

This doesn't need a "countermove", it needs a toast from Cubs fans to the Cardinals' desperation.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 3, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I Second that

We are talking about a guy whose 34 years old, coming off of major surgery and it just so happens he hasnt thrown a pitch in a year and a half.

Its time to get off the ledge folks.

This is Mall Clement we are talking about, NOT Tom Seaver.

Then again on the subject of countermoves, I think it would only be right for Jim Hendry to i dunno just trade for Johan Santana just for the sake of making a countermove :)

"I guess you had some lean years, and didnt have to beat it hard" - Craig Sager

by Galvan316 on Jan 3, 2008 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Cards also signed

Izturis. I'm glad we didn't counter that one. I don't need to see Neifi back in Wrigley.

by rlpete on Jan 4, 2008 8:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cardinals' desperation

Honesty compels me to say, it warms my heart to see those two words next to each other.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Jan 4, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who should be the Countermove

Kris Benson, Jon Lieber, Bartalo Colon, Freddy Garcia, Jason Jennings or Rodrigo Lopez? I wouldn't mind signing one of those guys to a Clement like deal, but we don't need to do it with our pitching depth.

One quick question is how simliar pitchers are Ryan Dempster and Matt Clement stuff wise? I heard people compare Dempster to him in the past, because both have good stuff and never hit their potential because of poor control. I know many hate the idea of Demspter starting, but despite a 5.33 in six starts in 05 he did have 4 of 6 quality starts, and era was only that high because he got bombed in his first start of the season.(also first start in a year and half)

Clement was a pretty poor pitcher before joining the Cubs in 02.(4.48,5.14 and 5.05 era's) But he worked with Rothschild and turned in to a 3.60,4.11 and 3.68 era pitcher with the Cubs. So maybe Rothschild could do more work with Dempster if he's starting, and can help him work on other pitches he often didn't use when relieving? Yeah I know it's a long shot, but I was just thinking of this off the top of my head.

Clement first four full years
99-4.48,00-5.14,01-5.05,02- 3.60

Dempsters first four full years(three years younger then Clement)

99-4.71,00-3.66,01-4.94,02-5.38-(4.79 with Marlins/6.19 with Reds)

Clement went on to pitch well from 03-05 then got hurt. Dempster pitched hurt and struggled in 03 and had TJS, and has only started six game since and pitched decent in those games. But was below average pitching out of the pen the last two years(era wise)

by cubsfan25 on Jan 4, 2008 3:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Countermove?

Not sure a "countermove" is necessary but I'd still like to see a roll of a dice with either Colon or maybe Jason Jennings. Was Jennings injured or just bad?

I still have hopes that Dempster will be good for 12-14 wins with an ERA around 4-4.50 depending on how much our offense improves.

Love to see Blanton here but seeing what the Sox gave up for Swisher it would seem that the cost for Blanton is going to be outlandish.

by plenz on Jan 4, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jennings

He had a 3s era his first 7 starts, and even a 4.15 era after his first 9 starts. Then I think he was pitching hurt, because he totally got destroyed in his next 9 starts.

I would be happy signing Jennings, Benson, Colon or even Lieber.

by cubsfan25 on Jan 4, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would like to see

the cubs sign jennings as their rehabing pitcher......just a year ago jennings was being shopped by the rockies and he seemed to be a hot commodity. If I remember right the cubs even had interest in him. I think if he got healthy he could be a good 2-3 starter.

by cubsmania on Jan 5, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Blanton

You think Hart, Fox and Murton would get us Blanton? He'll be cheaper than Haren and Swisher.

Vote Santo!

by nuflattop on Jan 4, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it

I'm not a Blanton fan but would make that deal for the Cubs in a minute. Based on the earlier A's deal, I'd expect they would want at least one higher prospect. Swisher brought 3 prospects including the top 2 from the Sox. I'd think the A's would want at least one top one from the Cubs.

by rlpete on Jan 4, 2008 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't.

As noted in another diary, Blanton has benefitted from the Mausoleum in Oakland. There's at least a chance that Hart could be as good, and a lot cheaper.

Not sure what the A's would do with Jake Fox. They already have someone better who can do what Fox can do -- Jack Cust.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 5, 2008 5:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fox

is at least nominally a catcher, and has way more offensive upside than Kurt Suzuki, while Jeremy Brown hasn't made the leap yet.

Vote Santo!

by nuflattop on Jan 6, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Matt not Mall

LOL.

Then again how desprate the Cards are for pitching maybe there is a "Mall Clement" around some where. ;)

Seriously Al, we need an edit button heh

"I guess you had some lean years, and didnt have to beat it hard" - Craig Sager

by Galvan316 on Jan 3, 2008 11:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I miss him.

I don't like that we are going to be facing this guy.

Alright this is purely on memory and lets see how well I remember.

Didnt he have a year that he went 12-13 or 13-14 but had a respectable ERA? I remember one year, might have been his last, that he didnt get ANY run support whatsoever.

I wish him luck.

I dont wish the bullpen luck after he's pitched against the Cubs.

What was that White Sox fan? IT'S CALLED LOYALTY!

by EJThunder on Jan 4, 2008 1:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Cards

I can't imagine Cardinal fans being to happy with the moves or lack of that the team has made since Jockety left. Any pitcher under Duncan scares me, but I think that Larussa stare will melt Clement.

by Comfortably Numb on Jan 4, 2008 4:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Cardinals re-signed Aaron Miles too

Wow, are the Cardinals gonna suck next year. They might have the worst Middle infield in the game. Izturis, Kennedy and Miles. Ouch.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 4, 2008 6:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

The Cardinals are not going to be good. The worriers can forget the Cardinals.

by rlpete on Jan 4, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

At first i worried

about their ability to turn around lousy pitchers, but after their failed attempt last year with kip wells, im not too worried

"The more i practice, the luckier i seem to get" -Yogi Berra

by ChiCubsFever on Jan 5, 2008 2:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

To clarify

I was referring to the last two off-season's as being baffling by the Cardinal's. Seriously, what direction are they taking? Used to be an organization that strived to get better. Who besides Pujol's do you fear? Rolen? He and LaRussa are feuding publicly, that isn't healthy for a team. And, the pitching is a mess.

by Nibbles on Jan 5, 2008 8:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs