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Bill Simmons: Manny Being Manipulated

I know Bill Simmons is one of those guys you hate or love, but I think regardless of your feelings toward him, you will find this piece very interesting.

Manny Being Manipulated

It brings up a lot of interesting questions that no one seemed to be asking around the time that Manny was being traded.  Why am I posting this on a Cubs board?  Well besides it's just being a well-written baseball piece, this section caught my eye:

 

"When Ortiz and Manny were clicking at the same time, like for the first few playoff games last October, the Red Sox simply couldn't be defeated. We had the modern-day Ruth and Gehrig and everyone else knew it.19 Call me crazy, call me nuts, call me a fool ... but I wasn't enthusiastic about giving that up without a reason that surpassed, "Uh-oh, Manny is acting up again." I also believe -- fervently -- that Boston fans needed Manny in our lives. Remember the way Sox fans behaved before October 2004? Tight as a drum, always expecting the worst? Manny never noticed the nail-chewing, knuckle-cracking and hair-pulling. The negative radio shows and columns never bugged him. He just kept showing up with that same dopey smile and cranking line drives. You could say he loosened up the entire city -- never receiving enough credit for this, by the way -- and when other self-proclaimed "Idiots" like Millar and Damon became his partners in crime, we ended up winning the 2004 World Series. Coincidence? I say no. If I had to pick a movie character to describe Manny's effect on the team and its fans, it would be Dunphy from "Outside Providence," the juvenile delinquent who showed up at the uptight '70s prep school, lightened things up, and within a few weeks, everyone knew how to roll a joint."

Do the Cubs need a leader who just doesn't give a shit and plays the game?  Now I know that Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, DeRosa, etc. all talk about how the drought doesn't come into their minds, but you can tell just by watching them in the playoffs that this is going through their minds.  As soon as a game starts to slip, things get more tense, guys seem to start pushing more and everything goes downhill from there. 

Perhaps I can say this now because it's the off-season but I have lost some of my own tightness with this 2008 team.  There's no definite team that will win the World Series, the Cubs will get there eventually, there's nothing I can do in the meantime.  Do we need one of the Cubs players to just come out and lead the team in this attitude?  Who could it be? 

One last thing about the playoffs is I felt that no one player did take the lead of this team.  Not Zambrano, not Lee, not Ramirez, not Wood, and certainly not Soriano.  Maybe that's how you win games as a team during the regular season, but do you need one guy to lead a team through the post-season to victory?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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This is exactly what I've been saying.

It doesn’t have to be your best player, either. The Cubs’ three best hitters are Alfonso Soriano, Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee, and perhaps you could make an argument for Geovany Soto. But none of those players is a carefree, “the-hell-with-everything-but-us”, out-front leader. Come to think of it, the Cubs have NEVER had a guy like that.

When the Red Sox broke their drought in 2004, Kevin Millar, a good player but not the best on the team, was the leader of the “idiots”. When the White Sox broke theirs, it was AJ, a guy we love to hate, who made the critical play that brought them over the hump.

You’re absolutely right. We need a guy like that. Identifying him and acquiring him is the problem.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 10:39 AM CDT   0 recs

Very well said Al...

…and your right in saying you don’t need a Manny Ramirez to get you over the hump, you need a player or two or three that has that inbread quality, that comes out when the team is not going well. They don’t even have to do anything spectacular, just little things that help ease the pressure on the club, and gets the club relax as a club.

I stated before, the one guy on the team is a littlle goofy, is Dempster and when he obviously pitched very tight in that first game, I really think it had a debilitating effect because there was no one else that could step up and elevate the club.

The problem is, there is no magic formula for this and there is only so much a manager can do in this area. Leadership on the field is just as important as what you have from your manager, because players need a real life (on the field) example of someone doing good things when the games become very important.

The leaders on this club appear to be the quite type. Thats ok, but sometimes you need a couple guys that not only keep guys loose, but they keep them on the ledge, without going over the other end. In baseball, there is a finer line (compared to other sports) between being pumped up and ready to play and being tight.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 10, 2008 11:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In responding to those who ask what we need over the winter in terms of players...

… and I will do that in upcoming days… that’s the guy I will try to identify. I’m still not sure who it might be.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 12:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Coincidentally...

Kevin Millar is a FA this off-season. I’m not sure how much playing time he would “demand” but an increased version of the role Daryle Ward was supposed to play might be feasible if he’s open to it. He’ll turn 38 in September of next season so he’s right in that age range of role player guys becoming bench guys and he’s declined some from his Marlins/Red Sox days but could still have something left.

I also remember reading somewhere a year or two back that either Wood or Dempster (or possibly both) when asked who they wanted to play with mentioned Millar. Couldn’t hurt the clubhouse any to try.

by CubFan81 on Oct 10, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting idea.

I know Dempster and Millar had that wacky “argument” before the season started after Dempster said the Cubs were going to win the WS. Dempster seemed disappointed when he found out he wouldn’t be facing the Orioles when they were at Wrigley in June.

Hell, why not. Millar is only a .214 career hitter (.323 OBA) as a pinch-hitter, but heck, the guy hit 20 homers in 2008. Might be worth a flyer.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, he also stinks on ice.

The guy can only play first or DH and he can’t hit a lick. What’s the point, again?

Oh, because it couldn’t hurt the clubhouse to waste the roster spot. Got it.

by cwyers on Oct 11, 2008 1:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's say a guy like this...

… could have loosened up the team enough so they wouldn’t have played so tight.

Are you saying that’s completely worthless? If so, you’re wrong.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why are we let's saying that?

What’s the evidence that his clubhouse presence would meaningfully contribute to wins? Because the evidence that his on-field presence would detract from wins is pretty clear-cut.

by cwyers on Oct 11, 2008 11:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sigh.

I’ve said it a million times, guess I have to say it a million more: there are things that contribute to winning baseball that cannot be measured on a stat sheet.

Since I’m not in the clubhouse I cannot present such evidence, neatly put out in spreadsheet form. But talk to any major league baseball player, coach or manager, and he will tell you that such things exist.

Deny it if you will, but you’ll be wrong.

(Incidentally, when Millar did what he did for the 2004 Red Sox, he was, in fact, a good player statistically. This, you cannot deny.)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 11:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I Agree With Al

Colin brings a great deal to the party and BCB would be lacking without his input. But in baseball, as in life, the presence or the reality of something that exists cannot be empirically proven…at least in my book. You either believe it or you don’t.

I don’t know about Kevin Millar’s Win Shares or his intangibles, nor do I particularly care for the guy. I’m just using this opportunity to advise my fellow man that not everything in life can be weighed, labeled, touched, or tasted.

Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.

by CaliCub on Oct 11, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay, but it's a leap of faith...

…to go from these things existing to saying that Kevin Millar has those things and would bring them to the 2009 Cubs.

by cwyers on Oct 11, 2008 12:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe, but...

… then why did Dempster, specifically, say that Millar was one of the guys he’d like to have in the clubhouse?

You’re right that he didn’t have a statistically good year in 2008, and he’s 37 years old. But he might be worth a flyer as a backup 1B/OF (granted, he hasn’t played OF in three years).

If not him — there must be other guys like this. Identify one and get him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It could be a leap of faith...

…to hope a particular player can jump start the team mentally in the playoffs, but I also think it would be very naive to think some intangable ingrediant (sorry, it can’t be measured) was missing from this core group.

When this same group of players has played 6 playoff games in the last two years, and looked as bad as they have, this issue most certainly should be addressed this offseason and I believe it will be. Whether they can do something that helps, I have no idea, but it can not be ignored.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 11, 2008 1:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What intangible about the Dodgers changed...

…so that they played well in the first round, and are getting creamed by the Phillies right now?

I’m sorry, but I don’t think you need any “intangible ingredients” to explain what happened – three games are simply not enough to judge a baseball team on, which is why we play 162 of them in the regular season. And I don’t think any of us know any more about any team or player’s clubhouse presence and whatnot, because none of us are in the clubhouse. So it seems rather silly to try to figure out the best way to improve something that none of us really know anything about.

by cwyers on Oct 11, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would usually agree...

…that three games are not nearly enouph to judge a team on, no doubt. But we aren’t talking about any 3 games. We are talking about working your ass off all season and playing very good baseball for the most part and then falling on your face when it comes down to crunch time – two years in a row.

These three games were not like regular season games, they are playoff games and are played with a higher intensity and elevated focus and importance. It would be one thing to get outplayed (by a hot team) and just getting beat, it is another thing to play poorly in all phases of the game and handing this series over without any type of battle.

Its not that they lost to the Dodgers (because I knew they were dangerous) it is how they lost to both them and the Dbacks last year. If you watched any of the Philly games against Lowe and Billingsly, you could see a world of difference in the confidence level of the hitters and the defense and the pitching. The Cubs have played like they didn’t have any business being in the playoffs the last two years, and to me, you have to ask why they were not in the right mind frame to play better quality baseball.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 11, 2008 1:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe the Phillies Are More "Intangible"? j/k

You know, I thought about what I recently posted because I wanted to prepare for a meaningful rebuttal. Not in the interest of winning an argument or shooting down Colin (far from that) but because I didn’t present myself rather well.

If the scenario was such that a GM had to pick between Milton Bradley and me, he better pick Bradley! I might have the sunnier disposition but my hitting and fielding would make Neifi Perez look like Honus Wagner. It would be dumb for a GM to only get “team players” with winning personalities and mystic mojo at the expense of flat-out talent.

I think the optimal scenario would be to prioritize players who can bring the best of both worlds – an OPS over .900 plus a good clubhouse leader who can rally the troops when the chips are down. Acquire and develop as many Ryne Sandbergs and Cal Ripkens as you can. Granted, guys like that are hard to come by, so the next best thing would be a guy with, say, an 80-20 ratio of talent to intangibles.

Then, with your starting lineup and pitching staff populated with 80-20 types, go for role players that by nature can’t give you the talent of a starter but make up for their lack of skill with humor and heart. Think of a lefty PHer that does funny impressions on the side, or a LOOGY that shows up early and stays late, or a late inning defensive replacement who can do the Vince Lombardi “we, not I” routine with the best of them. Think of these bench and mop-up guys as having a 50-50 talent to intangible ratio.

I’ll say again that sheer talent trumps all, and I agree with Colin that a baseball executive would do well to focus on getting talent that can be metrically proven when looking to improve a club. Same goes for living your life – don’t wait for miracles to save you; do things that you can control and have been verified as being helpful. Start eating well and get exercise and manage your money effectively. That being said, if That Which Can’t Be Proven finds its way into your home or your clubhouse, and it makes your endeavors more successful, let it do its thing. Don’t try to quantify it or extinguish it. To bastardize the old saying, “sometimes a rabbit’s foot is just a rabbit’s foot”.

Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.

by CaliCub on Oct 11, 2008 2:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think in the Dodgers' case...

… it may be Manny filling BOTH roles — as the superstar player (he had two fantastic months for them, after all), and ALSO as the guy who loosened up the clubhouse.

Not many players could do both, but Manny could. If I thought Manny could play first base, I’d advocate signing him to do that and trading D-Lee.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 5:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Talent trumps all...

…when it performs. When you have a trend of it not only not performing, but basically crumbling during the playoffs 2 years running, that is an issue that needs to be addressed – IMO.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 11, 2008 8:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How is that any different...

than what Daryle Ward did this year?

by CubFan81 on Oct 11, 2008 11:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Credit to you

I hadn’t really thought about these issues until reading your blog day-in and day-out. Your great stuff has certainly put my mind into the mode where I would read 9,000 words and focus on 100 or so.

In regards to ‘that’ player, it seems like Ryan Dempster would have been the best candidate. Other potential leaders from 2008 would have been Kerry Wood (longest tenure with the Cubs, rocky recent past, almost a story of redemption), but of all the 2008 quotes, I think he talked the less.

Derek Lee – very reserved, very humble player.
Aramis Ramirez – so cocky on the field, seems to get tight with the media and you certainly can’t lead when you aren’t getting any hit and not having any fun in the playoffs. I think if he started hitting well in the playoffs, he could be that guy
Geovany Soto – too young to take the mantle on such a veteran team… perhaps next year?
Soriano – way too soft spoken
Jim Edmonds – great numbers, veteran guy with a ring, perhaps he wasn’t on the team long enough to feel like he could take the mantle…. do you bring back Edmonds in the hopes that he would take that on?
DeRosa – why not him? Does he feel dwarfed by Soriano, Ramirez, & Lee?
Zambrano – too violent when he gets angry. He can be happy go lucky like Manny but flip off the handle the next

by IllinoisCubs on Oct 10, 2008 11:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Edmonds might work...

… but although he has been through many postseasons and has a ring, I’m not quite sure he’s the right guy to take on that role. Lemme think about it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought Edmonds would be that guy this year,

but, as I mentioned once on what seems like a long-ago NLDS thread, maybe he “hasn’t been a Cub” long enough.

Have we ever had that “Manny” type of spark guy? All of the Cubs greats were rather “quiet, competent” types. Apparently Frank Chance was what we need but I never saw him play.

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lofton?

It doesn’t really matter right now, because I think he is no longer a viable option, but in 2003 I felt that Kenny Lofton was that X factor that you’re talking about.

His numbers weren’t spectacular (though they weren’t bad as I remember) but he always seemed to have a huge smile on his face and a care-free attitude and love for the game that transcended a lot of the BS surrounding the Cubs. Plus I think he had that veteren leadership factor as well.

by hewtown on Oct 10, 2008 11:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I tend to agree on Lofton...

…the guy came in as a proven playoff performer and as he went the offense went, and he “went” often in the playoffs.

The other part of this was I understood he didn’t get along well with Sosa and stood up to a lot of his shit. The other players on the club couldn’t stand Sammy either, and probably had a good deal of respect for Lofton in doing that. That 03 club also had a few other guys who were not the best players, but they were veterans and gritty performers – Gruds, Karros and even the goofy Simon who never saw a pitch he didn’t like, but he got the winning hit against Maddox against Atlanta and launched a clutch homerun late in game 3 against the Marlins.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 10, 2008 11:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I dunno about Lofton.

Maybe. He didn’t really play that sort of role on the other winning teams he played on, but maybe he didn’t have to.

Randall Simon — now that’s the kind of guy I’m talking about. Loose, not a great player but a contributor, not a “leader” in the traditional sense but a guy who could say, “Hey, let’s just have fun”, if not by saying so, then by his actions on the field.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 12:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I believe Lofton...

…was not brought back because they were banking on Patterson being a star and also the issues he had with Sammy.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 10, 2008 11:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's absolutely correct.

And in 2004, Patterson DID have a good year — 24 homers, 32 steals, a decent BA, played good defense.

Then he regressed badly in 2005 and was basically done after that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 12:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

At the time...

…I can’t say that I disagreed with the move after the 1st half Patterson had after getting hurt.

Little did we know, Lofton would be the last “good” leadoff hitter this team has had since.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 10, 2008 12:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I said the same thing

every good team needs a “rat”. Somebody to rally around. Quirky, someone without the light on upstairs, call them what you want but I agree. It’s either that one guy or a team that is so strong willed they can do it together. I thought that was us this year but I am convinced of Dempster’s downfall enabled the regression. It may take time, but it will happen.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 10, 2008 3:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

brings to mind...

Bill “Spaceman” Lee, Joe Pepitone and others of that ilk. Men comfortable in their own skin, confident in their talents and out there to play the hell out the game regardless of pressure or circumstance. Yep, that’s exactly what we need — irreverence coupled with love of the game. Bit of a contradiction that, but let’s not underestimate the power of loopiness.

All generalizations are false.

by Emelie on Oct 11, 2008 5:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yaz Credits Lee With Deflecting The Media

When the hounds were closing in during the second half of 1978, Yaz said that Lee would go off on a crazy tangent about the busing issue in Boston or how pot should be legal just so the other 24 guys could relax and not have to put up with questions about why they were choking.

Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.

by CaliCub on Oct 12, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly what I'm talking about.

Lee was a good pitcher, but as you can see, his value transcended his statistics.

The Cubs don’t have anyone like that (Ryan Dempster was as close as it got). They need one.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 12, 2008 4:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Perhaps We Should Move Dempster to Right Field

He could be our “Idiot”. And I mean that in the lovingest terms.

by Chodes on Oct 10, 2008 10:47 AM CDT   0 recs

Simmons has a weekly podcast

And he said that when he saw Dempster give up the grand slam, he looked at the crowd. He said it was like watching old home movies of Red Sox fans pre-2004.

I love Simmons’ work. As a huge Lakers fan in the 80s, I find his Celtics stuff tiring, especially his weird hatred of Kareem, but other than that, he’s very talented.

I really thought Dempster was that guy. Maybe it can’t be a pitcher.

Simmons also said something interesting… He said a team with the baggage the Cubs have (and the Red Sox had) can’t go into a postseason as the favorite. They either have to come out of nowhere or have some monumental achievement, like coming back from 3-0 in the series.

I think he’s right. I think the next Cubs World Series team will get into the playoffs as a wild card or as an 87-win division winner.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 10, 2008 10:55 AM CDT   0 recs

Maybe a fluky wildcard underdog

team or something… but I can pretty much assure you the Mets will be involved somehow.

Sawks had to get past the Yanks, Colts had to get past the Pats, IMHO the team we’ve had the most troubled history with is the Mets. Or the Padres.

Hopefully not both in the same post season… I don’t see BOTH of them bouncing back soon.

"Next year" sucks.

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Oct 12, 2008 1:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with the above about Dempster.

He really seemed to be “the guy” who could be the “idiot”. When he didn’t perform in game 1 and seemed tight, the whole team tightened up.

But it would help if an everyday player could step up and be that guy, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 10:57 AM CDT   0 recs

Personally, I'm a little sick and tired of Dempster's comedic antics...

If his career year and luck abandon him in 2009 he is going back to being one of the most critiqued players on this team. Wind blows out in half of his Wrigley starts and he keeps walking guys then next year he could make us wish for Jason Marquis.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 10, 2008 2:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dempster and Wood

I think Wood is another candidate.

Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Oct 10, 2008 1:02 PM CDT   0 recs

Wood is the last guy

He represents so much of the up and down of this franchise.

It’s going to take someone that comes in and doesn’t know the first damn thing about Cub history. That’s not hard to find among players, who generally don’t really know much about baseball history.

But, here is the tricky part. It’s going to take someone who doesn’t care to learn about it and be part of it.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 10, 2008 1:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly.

Plus, I think it has to be a position player. Pitchers just don’t seem to be this type of player.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 10, 2008 3:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe

Turk Wendell will consider coming out of retirement. Black licorice for everyone!

by qccub on Oct 10, 2008 1:42 PM CDT   0 recs

Roger McDowell

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 10, 2008 5:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 10, 2008 5:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What we need is professional hitter and run producer from the left side of the plate

A Jason Giambi or Bobby Abreu type in their prime. A sum bitch who can hit in his sleep and be sandwiched in between Ramirez and Soriano in the middle of the lineup. A sum bitch who can just flat out rake. Finding that sum bitch is going to be a sum bitch.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 10, 2008 1:58 PM CDT   0 recs

Earl Weaver had the right idea.

link

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 10, 2008 2:20 PM CDT   0 recs

I have heard that many times...

…and it is a classic.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 10, 2008 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, I break up every time I hear it.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 10, 2008 2:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Weaver...

…was “Money Ball” before Money Ball was cool.

Good pitching, good defense and enouph 3 run homers to win games. It can work if you have the right players, but Weaver also had his share of powerhouse teams get upset in the playoffs as well.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 10, 2008 2:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

2004 Red Sox Had Great Team Stats Too

Led the league in runs, OBP, BB, and SLG. Pitching was good as well. I always felt that would be the key to the Cubs getting over the hump – having a club whose sheer talent would trump all. But I guess this season proved my theory was flawed.

Sheer overwhelming talent + 100% concentration on the task at hand = championships.

Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.

by CaliCub on Oct 10, 2008 10:44 PM CDT   0 recs

As the old saying goes...

…get your mind right, and your ass with follow.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 10, 2008 10:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right.

The Cubs had the overwhelming talent this year. Obviously, something just as important was missing.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The talent was there .. the concentration may have not

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Oct 11, 2008 6:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And the reason for that...

… is that something prevented the obvious talent from performing the way it did for six months.

Identify the reason and create a solution, and you will have a champion. Do I know what those are? Wish I did.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 12, 2008 10:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is a refreshing diary to read...

…as it shows that I think people are finally starting to “get it”- when a team wins 97 games and goes as meekly as the Cubs did in the postseason, it’s probably not about talent, but mental makeup. When watching this past postseason, it’s obvious that the issue was mental. They were scared to death. I just cringe when I hear people say, “franchise baggage has nothing to do with it- we just need a left handed bat.” Or, “3 games is too small a sample size to make judgments on.” Please.

Remember when we wondered, before the pinella hiring, if Girardi were to get the job, it might be better because he “understood Cubdom”? I think that’s what it means to understand Cubdom- understanding that the baggage of past failures still has bearing on the team today, just like the Red Sox pre-2004. If this issue is ignored or overlooked by management as they assemble the team, mark my words, we will win NOTHING. As I posted previous, only a unique, special, and strong group of men will be able to win us a world series.

by reedjohnson on Oct 11, 2008 9:31 PM CDT   0 recs

We thought we had that group this year.

Clearly, we were wrong.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 12, 2008 10:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Another Reason Why the 2004 Red Sox Broke Through

was the dismissal of Grady Little and hiring of Terry Francona during the offseason. Now, you would never confuse either one with Gene Mauch when it came to being a stern tactician – however Francona was (and still is) a little better when it comes to being a player’s manager and maintaining the balance between focus and comfort in the dugout.

Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.

by CaliCub on Oct 12, 2008 11:18 AM CDT   0 recs

I think you are giving...

…the manager too much credit.

Managers of all different skills (or lack of) have won the World Series in the last 10-15 years. Go down the list and look at them:

Guillen – real goof ball, who says some really stupid shit and will call out his players
Sciocia – very respectful to the media relatively quiet, but shows his fire in the clubhouse
Leyland – hard nosed guy who makes out strange lineups, holds his players accountable and has a temper – Piniella and Leyland are the closest to each other in baseball today
LaRussa – very smart (tends to over manage) and he also tends to get under his players skin
McKeon – rides the hot hand for all he possible can, and he won a championship
Torre – Calm, respectful, stays level headed and has had the most talent of any manager over the last 12 years
Brenley – pretty smart guy who didn’t get to manager very long after he lost his top pitchers

A lot of managers will win if you give them the right players. Sure, the manager helps, but they help the most by identifying who they can rely on and helping the GM to acquire the right talent. After that, the players have to perform on the field.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 13, 2008 6:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

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