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My Tentative Cubs Top 20 Prospect List

It’s getting to that time of the year again … prospect lists will be coming out left and right soon.  Here’s my early attempt at it.  Been awhile since I worked through one - last time was probably mid August?  Still working through some thoughts, and thus, could make some adjustments as soon as I click the post button.  Will try to expand this list to 50 or more in the near future, time permitting. 

Our system has upside in the lower levels, but a lot of it is raw.  Some may be open to giving higher grades to those guys.  In the end, it’s just my opinion, which I try my best to base on a combination of readiness, upside, and production.  I think Vitters is a solid top 50, perhaps top 40 on top 100 prospect lists.  Shark is probably a solid top 40/50.  Ceda/Cashner/Castillo likely are thoughts in that 80-100 range, although all three could be on the outside looking in (particularly Castillo, as BA loves Ceda, saying he has elite stuff).

  1. Josh Vitters, B+.  Strong season in Boise, but he has to perform in full-season.  Look for him in Peoria, with the potential for a bump to Daytona or Tennessee later in the year.  Reportedly showing signs of improved defense, enough hope that he can perhaps be in line to replace Aramis at the hot corner in a few years.  Arguably, the only elite chip in our system.
  2. Jeff Samardzija, B+.  Still qualifies as a rookie.  The one high upside arm in our system at the upper levels.  Front of the rotation potential.  Shark showed a lot of signs of improvement, but needs more work.  He’ll be in the bigs in 2009, just depends on what role.  I prefer him in the pen.
  3. Jose Ceda, B.  I’m not sure about a specific grade here.  Part of me thinks B+, as he’s a high upside pen arm with elite stuff.  Part of me thinks B, as he needs some more work.  Should start 2009 in the minors in AA/AAA, although it’s not impossible he performs well in spring and goes with the big league squad.  Could see the bigs in 2009 if he is with us late into the year.
  4. Andrew Cashner, B.  He’s still a work in progress.  I’m hesitant to put him 4th … but who else?  Think Ceda (very similar, although I think Ceda’s stuff is better).  I don’t buy into the “work him as a starter” idea and expect the Cubs to develop him in the pen.  Maybe he gets extended outings, but that’s typical for pen arms in the minors anyways.  I’d guess Daytona to start 2009, particularly since it’s in warmer weather and more of a pitcher’s league, although he should be able to dominate Peoria if they sent him there to start.  I think he could see Tennessee, if not Iowa, with an outside shot of the big leagues (but that is assuming everything is perfect).
  5. Wellington Castillo, B.  Coming into 2008, he was looked at as a young Hank White of sorts, with the potential for some offensive development.  He’s shown enough to suggest that he might be better than that, if the offense develops some more.  I think he starts in AA, but Iowa is possible.  May get a September callup, but with Soto/Blanco/Hill, there’s no need to force him up.
  6. Tyler Colvin, B-.  The late surge got him back up a bit.  If he can find some balance between instincts and discipline, he may yet reach some of the projections for him (a young Shawn Green has been tossed about before).  He should start 2009 in the minors.  I’d guess Iowa, but there’s a shot he starts in Tennessee to “prove it” before getting bumped up.  Btw, he’s a corner OF that can pinch in CF, not a CF playing a corner spot, IMO.
  7. Jovan Rosa, B-.  Hey, I’m a big fan, so maybe I’m biased here.  Certainly, the fact that he is looking like a first baseman somewhat tempers the excitement, but he posted an excellent line for the MWL.  His June struggles brought down the overall line.  He should be in Daytona to start 2009, likely splitting 3rd and 1st again.  Only 21 at the start of 2009, one of the guys that I am really excited to follow, considering the power potential here (43 doubles and his body should fill out a bit more).
  8. Ryan Flaherty, B-.  He garnered number 12 prospect in BA’s NWL rankings.   Defensive woes likely mean a positional switch down the road … which was speculated upon before the draft.  It’ll be interesting to see what the Cubs do here.  The positional move likely is to 2nd base, as he doesn’t profile to have the power desired at 3rd.  I could see a jump to Daytona if they move him to 2nd.  On the other hand, I can see them sticking in Peoria and hoping he can stick at short.
  9. Jay Jackson, C+.  I may be putting him a bit high, but boy, was he an exciting addition to the system.  Loose arm projects well, along with his overall athleticism.  Runs a fastball in the low 90’s that can touch the mid-90’s, has a solid slider, and mixes in a curve and a change.  I’ll guess Daytona to start 2009, but he could be in Tennessee.  Might see Tennessee or Iowa by the end of the year.  Don’t have a good read on his projection, as some suggest that his stuff might be able to get sharper and better with more development.  Already has a solid fastball in the low to mid 90’s, a solid slider, and usable curve and change.
  10. Micah Hoffpauir, C+.  I’m not fond of any 28 year old being considered a key prospect in a system, but there isn’t really anyone else, and you gotta give him credit.  This isn’t the same Micah that hit Iowa way back in the day (and briefly got demoted for Brandon Sing).  He’s definitely improved.  Enough to start regularly in the bigs?  Not sold, but enough to at least be in the bigs?  Yes.  Not many people would’ve anticipated that a few years ago.
  11. Nate Spears, C+.  He seems like he’s been around forever, but he’s still relatively young, and he had a big year in the Southern League.  I think he can be a big league utility option, as he can handle short enough, a la Theriot.  The C+ is more an acknowledgement of him being the upper levels of the system.  Should start 2009 in Iowa.
  12. Dan McDaniel, C+.  I am probably crazy, crazy, crazy on this one.  Power righty arm runs it up there in the mid-90’s.  Has a decent to solid curve I think and a usable change and slider.  I won’t be surprise if we move him to back to the rotation (started at Chabot I think).  Strong season at Boise, looking for him to start 09 in Peoria, although it’s possible they try him as a starter and start him in XST perhaps, with a bump to Boise, and a shot at Peoria.
  13. Dae-Eun Rhee, C+*.  This one comes with a huge asterisk.  Electric with a fast/curve/change (or split-change) combo when healthy, but the health.  I’d look for him to be in Peoria to start 09 whenever he can get it going again..
  14. Mitch Atkins, C+.  End of the rotation type, but he’s up in AAA and he’s coming off a solid year.  Should start 2009 as a stretched out arm in Iowa, and could see the bigs.  Gets the plus for being at a higher level.
  15. Nate Samson, C.  Tailed off a bit at the end of the year, but Samson and Rosa were the two constant cogs in Peoria all year.  Like Flaherty, isn’t likely to fit at shortstop, although he’ll probably get another chance to play there in 2009.  I’d look for him to start 2009 in Daytona.
  16. Tony Thomas, C.  The most disappointing Cubs prospect for me because I held such high expectations.  His plate discipline was horrible, which surprised me.  The defense was a concern, which wasn’t surprising.  Certainly he made a jump and missed Peoria, so you give him the benefit of that entering 2009.  I’m not sure where he starts, hunch is they’ll move him on up to Tennessee, but repeating Daytona isn’t the worst idea.
  17. Brandon Guyer, C.  The tail off in September was bothersome, but he showed some intrigue with his hot streak in the middle.  Can he put it together?  Here’s a toolsy, athletic kid, a very Tim Wilken type athlete pick.  More of a corner OF, but can play some CF.  Has power that is lacking in the system.  Considering he was a college kid, and considering he showed enough in Peoria, I think he starts 2009 in Daytona.
  18. Aaron Shafer, C.  You certainly don’t want to read too much into Boise work for college arms, but Shafer got off to a solid start.  We’ll see if he can get stronger with more time away from the injury.  Was only tossing high 80’s supposedly.  Should start 2009 in A ball somewhere, probably Peoria, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Daytona.
  19. Chris Carpenter, C.  Shaky start, but still is a college arm with two plus pitches, so at the very least, there’s hope he can move as a pen arm if he struggles as a starter.  I could see a XST/Boise or Peoria type thing, although I’m hoping it’s just straight to Peoria for him.
  20. Starlin Castro, C.  Exciting young middle infielder that got tabbed the 14the best AZL prospect (I think).  Put together a solid offensive season and has a shot to stick at short.  Likely XST/Boise for 09, I think.

 

As of now, my next 5 is some mix of Larry Suarez, Junior Lake, Jeffry Antigua, Ryan Searle, and Matt Cerda, I think.  That said, a lot of guys can fit in here.  Some upper level older guys could be a thought.   A back end of the rotation productive guy (Carrillo/Caridad/Chen) may be an idea.  A young guy like Jones/Perez could be in the mix (Perez moreso than Jones).

 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Pretty good..

But there’s a guy whos first name i can’t remember but he’s a SS from the Dominican with the last name Lake. Scouts love him and he projects to have a TON of power.

Another guy is Hak Ju Lee from Korea. Hasn’t played yet but very highly touted.

Another is one of the guys from Australia.. He’s a pitcher.. Forget..

And Larry Suarez who had TJ surgery and has been compared to Z. One of the highly touted players out of Latin America a couple years back. Came on strong when he came back.

Ceda is being compared with Bobby Jenks. Me like..

Devin Hester, you are ridiculous! -Jeff Joniak

by ARAM FOR MVP on Oct 11, 2008 2:31 AM CDT   0 recs

RE:

Larry Suarez and Junior Lake are in my 21-25 section that I tagged on at the end. Starlin Castro was better than Lake this past year and got the last nod for me, and Castro has a better shot to stick at short. Suarez was close, but it was tough for me to slide his upside in there, even though he looked good coming back from injury. Sample was limited, though. I think Lake and Suarez will do XST/Boise this upcoming season.

I have a tough time putting a kid like Lee Hak-ju in there without even seeing how he does against competition, even from a statistical analysis. There’s been a lot of high praise, and he could very well be on a top 20 list by the end of 09, but I think it’s too early.

The pitcher you are thinking of is Ryan Searle. I thought about putting him in the top 20, but like Lake/Suarez, he was in my 21-25 section at the end. He was very good this year, but BA had some negative comments on body and makeup that made me pause, since those folks do this for a living. There were enough intriguing arms, and Searle was good but doesn’t have blow away stuff.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 2:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I remember

reading about that Hak-Ju kid. Scouts said he has better tools at his age then Jeter did, hits from the left side, and has blazing speed.

by china423 on Oct 11, 2008 9:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

He could be very good. I’ve got a tough time placing him in a top 20 list without knowing what he can do, though, production wise. A lot of kids have tools … how it translates, only time will tell. But he very well could be a top 10 kid next year for us.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Question about Vitters

What do you think his arrival time will be the big leagues?
My thought is around the end of 2011/2012.

by Steves Stoners on Oct 11, 2008 3:09 AM CDT   0 recs

Re: Vitters

Well, let’s sketch it out then.

A positive scenario would have him

2009 – Peoria to start, Daytona to finish
2010 – Some combination of Daytona/Tennessee
2011 – Tennessee/Iowa/Bigs?

I think that’s a fairly possible scenario, so yes, I can buy end of 2011, beginning 2012, which is perfect since Aramis’ contract ends after 2011 (although there’s a 2012 option). There were some positive signs that he can handle third, so that flows real well.

A best case scenario would be

2009 – Peoria, bump to Daytona, finish at Tennessee
2010 – Tennessee, Iowa, cup of bigs
2011 – in the bigs

That’s a ridiculously positive scenario and I doubt it happens. But if it does, it could mean Vitters playing first base for a year and then perhaps moving to third, depending on FA moves.

I think the first scenario is the more realistic path, though, so yes, end of 2011/2012 would be my guess as well. Only time will tell.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 3:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

nest post

in awhile. nice work

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 11, 2008 8:48 AM CDT   0 recs

best post i meant to say

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 11, 2008 8:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Samardzija as a starter will benefit him....

Hendry even said having him as a starter would enable him to work on the quality of all of his pitches, whereas if he were a one inning reliever he wouldnt necessarily have the opportunity to throw all of his pitches, certainly not multiple times.

But I suppose that all depends on what happens with the Dempster signing and any possible Marquis moves.

I think you might be right about Vitters as our only blue chipper, which is scary, cant even imagine the kind of pressure thats gonna be on that kid over the next few years.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 11, 2008 9:01 AM CDT   0 recs

Samardzija doesn't yet have a complete enough complement of pitches to start at this level

It’s a point that Bob Brenly astutely pointed out in games and I agree with him. I would say therefore that Samardzija’s immediate future remains in the bullpen. Longer term we shall have to wait and see.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 12, 2008 5:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I find myself agreeing with you.

Samardzija could take over the 7th inning role next year. He seems well suited for it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 12, 2008 7:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dadgumit, I agree as well.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 14, 2008 1:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I must admit a changeup would do his game wonders. Maybe he should spend more time

around Harden. He has survived pretty well on two pitches.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 14, 2008 1:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If not mistaken...

…he does have a splitter, and that is really what a lot of guys use as their change up. He has a good fastball, slider and splitter, but his slider needs tons of work, because it tends to just spin up there.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 14, 2008 1:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He can't command his slider consistently to use it

as an out pitch. I would be leery of him throwing a split-finger pitch on a regular basis. Many people feel that that pitch is an elbow eater and the last thing this club needs is a top prospect with arm problems.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 14, 2008 1:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have never heard...

…of the splitter causing undue stress on the elbow, but that doens’t mean that it doesn’t. Typically, the sharp breaking balls are what causes significant elbow stress.

Anyway, the issue with Jeff S. is purely command of all his pitches and if he improves in this area, he should certainely be a very good relief guy.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 14, 2008 2:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Some pitching coaches are hesitant to let young pitchers

throw a splitter because they feel it damages elbows. I don’t know if there is any definitive proof of it, but some people shy away from the pitch because of the reputation.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 14, 2008 2:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting...

…and again, I have never heard of that before.

In fact, the first guy to really master the splitter (Bruce Sutter) started to throw it because he had arm problems in the past and needed to find a pitch he could throw without a lot of stress.

I’m not saying what you say is not happening, I just don’t understand the physics of why it would be a problem for an elbow.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 14, 2008 2:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Roger Craig has been one it's biggest critics.

Read here=

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 14, 2008 2:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you read the article?

…Craig is defending the pitch, as he is the one who taught it to his ptiching staff.

Also, the injuries his pitchers suffered seemed to be shoulder issues and most could be accounted to other issues not related to the split finger pitch.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 14, 2008 2:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My bad I was mistaken about Craig, but the

criticism against the pitch has to do with two things. The grip and the fact that a lot of pitcher have lost velocity on their fastball after mastering the pitch. A lot of the the criticism is conjecture, but it still exists. If you google split-finger fastball and elbow injuries, you’ll see what I mean.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 14, 2008 2:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Roger Craig was the guru on the split fingered fastball in the late 70's and 80's

Billy Swift and John Burkett owe their careers to Roger Craig.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 14, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The common injury with guys that

throw the splitter has been nerve damage between the two fingers from years of throwing.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 17, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nate Spears?

Really? He’ll be 24 next May and has played five games above AA. Double-A numbers weren’t overwhelmingly good, either.

I see him as an organizational guy, Triple-A roster filler.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 10:46 AM CDT   0 recs

Thing is

who else? I guess you can make a case for a guy like Nate Samson, but Spears should get some credit for being at a higher level. He isn’t that old for AAA … not young either, but he’s not too old for AAA. I think there’s a shot that Spears is a utility infielder in the bigs, but he very well could be organizational filler. That said, he got some points from me for being a guy in the upper levels that produced and wasn’t too old for the level. He had very good numbers in AA btw.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 10:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe.

Seems too mediocre to be ranked as high as you had him, though.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't disagree if

the prospect list is based on potential. I tried to take a measure of potential, production, level.

As I noted, though, prospect lists are often dependent on who evaluates. I think most people would agree on the top 7 or 8 guys in our system. After that, it’s really wide open. I gave points to Spears and Atkins for being in the upper levels, and thus, you know more and they are less of a risk. But upside wise, they would be borderline top 20 … even in our system.

I’ve go a hard time placing a guy like Dan McDaniel any higher, and I’m already extremely high on him, perhaps moreso than most. Samson profiles with a bit more upside (potential utility player, borderline starter type – which is what Spears somewhat profiles as), but he was also in Low A. Rhee has injury issues, or he would’ve bene top 10 on ability. Tony Thomas has defensive and offensive concerns. Guyer slumped in his final month. Out of that listing, Thomas and Guyer are the ones i would contemplate moving up. BA indicated that scouts were still okay with Thomas’ bat (I’m not, the discipline was horrid … defintiely concerns there), and Guyer is a toolsy kid who has a shot at sticking in CF (although I still think he’s more corner OF pinching in CF, but he is athletic enough to handle it) and Guyer showed pop. I’ll rethink this and may slide Guyer up a bit.

That said, our system is more raw upside right now than development. I’m not huge on putting a 28 year old in the top 10 area, a backend of the rotation starter like Atkins that high, or Spears that high.

Again, early list.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 11:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Compare

Spears to Mike Fontenot at the same age. Fontenot was maybe a little better, slightly more power, although I’d need to check the hitting environments for Bowie and the Eastern League compared to Tennessee and the Southern League. Other than that, almost identical. Funny that they both came over from trades with Baltimore.

I’m not very high on Spears either and maybe I’ll rank him differently, but I don’t think it’s really out of line at all. The system isn’t very good right now and if you value the things that Spears does well, then the ranking is defensible.

Spears will be in my rankings, I will add. Maybe that says more about the Cubs than Spears though.

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2008 4:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fontenot vs. Spears

Fontenot is the better hitter, but by most accounts, Spears is better with the glove, so there is that balancing effect. That said, it does mean that Fontenot is a decent starting option at 2nd base, as you can live with his glove there, whereas Spears is limited to a potential utility type if he reaches the bigs, I think (defense not good enough to consistently move to short, and offense not good enough at 2nd).

As noted, my Spears ranking is more a comment on the system than a comment on Spears ability.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 4:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Spears, as you say...

… might have some use as a utility IF at the ML level, if he can play a competent 2B, SS and 3B (and I don’t know if he can).

Fontenot was a former #1 draft pick, and as a result, likely got a longer rope, even after he was traded by the team that picked him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 5:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually...

I was wondering why Jose Ascanio didn’t make the list. Since you asked.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 11, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ascaino

I’m not sure what to make of him. He fell apart, and we have a lot of pen arms in the system. for example, I’m not sure Ascaino is any better than Rocky Roquet or Dumas Garcia.

That said, as noted in the above post, I think most people can agree on the top 7 or 8 in the system, and after that, you can order it a lot of ways and I’d be okay with it. It’s also my early list, as it’s bene a month and a half since I did one.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 11:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What of Jake Fox?

Will he be a free agent as a 6-year minor league free agent, or does he have a year left? If he’s still in the Cubs system, I don’t necessarily think of him as a top-20 guy, but I’d be interested in your thoughts.

He strikes me as Hoffpauir Lite, but seemed to figure things out in AA in the second half – hitting breaking pitches, finding a defensive spot, etc. He made the Postseason All-Star Team in the SL, if I’m not mistaken.

He hits for power, and could play a few defensive positions (LF, RF, 1B). My guess is he opens 2009 at Iowa (if still with the Cubs), filling in Hoffpauir’s spot while Hoff is with the Cubs.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 11, 2008 12:16 PM CDT   0 recs

Ugh.

He’s got only 200 at-bats above Double-A, and will be 27 next July.

If he could catch — where he originally started — he might have been in the major leagues by now. As a corner OF/1B, I see him as not very valuable.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 12:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's where I'm coming down on it too (but I say he's better than McGehee)

Though given the infatuation with Hoffpauir, should Fox put up numbers in Iowa in the first half of next year, he might get a shot again.

Plus, he could be a Phil Nevin-type. Able to play multiple positions, including catching in a pinch. In no way do I think he’ll be Phil Nevin, but that is the career path he’ll have to take if he wants to make it.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 11, 2008 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

By the time Nevin was Fox's age...

… he had over 500 ML at-bats.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2008 5:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great point.

Thanks for helping me out there, Al.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 12, 2008 1:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jake Fox

My Jake Fox best case comparison has been a more athletic Matt Lecroy. That said, Lecroy did make the bigs, so there is a shot that Jake does. Jake is a bit of a free swinger, though, and he got in a rut early in the year in AAA. He started showing signs of coming out of it when the Cubs bounced him down (his AAA numbers had inched up incrementally if I remember correctly). Defensively, he’s a corner OF/1st now, limiting his value unless his bat can be consistent. I think he’s one of those quad a types that could be a last man on the bench type with his ability to pinch at catcher if need be and be a righty bat with pop off the nebch, but may also shuttle back and forth between the bigs or the minors and be organizational fodder (which every organization needs).

I think, for a prospect list, he’s maybe top 30, but could be lower. The fact that he was demoted to a lower level, along with his age, plus his limitation to 1st/corner OF positions hurts. Doesn’t mean he can’t find some role in the bigs (some guys I didn’t list could find roles in the bigs) but the value isn’t that high, at least, not for me.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 4:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dae Eun Rhee

Won’t be anywhere starting 09. I am almost positive he had Tommy John. I will try to find a link for you

by MJMars on Oct 11, 2008 6:00 PM CDT   0 recs

Rhee

had TJ surgery in early July.

It’s very possible he could be back by the all-star break. But yeah, he won’t “start” the season anywhere. May is a remote possibility.

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2008 6:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry should've been clearer

By start, I am referring to where he might go when he starts playing. That means, best case scenario is the summer for him. It’s probably more likely that he doesn’t pitch this year.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 6:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Where's Caridad?

Like the list otherwise. Those things are incredibly hard to do without people giving you crap, so well done.

by AceCubbie on Oct 11, 2008 9:33 PM CDT   0 recs

Re: Caridad

I contemplated Caridad, and he had a nice showing in AA. That said, by most accounts, fringy stuff with a decent fastball, and usable curve/change from what I understand. Throws strikes, but seems like an end of the rotation type or pen arm. Is he any better than Marco Carrillo, Hung-Wen Chen, Billy Muldowney (all back of the rotation projections)? He performed better in AA than Carrillo (the other two not reaching AA yet), but Caridad was also a bit older. It’s certainly a possibility for the top 20, as he was an intriguing performer in the upper levels of our system (and I was surprised when we bumped him up, as he had been somewhat average in High A). There’s a lot of folks that could’ve been in consideration at the end. I don’t buy Caridad there (I’d probably put him in the 30-40 range for me, although maybe late 20’s) but I can see someone else moving Esmailin up there.

by toonsterwu on Oct 11, 2008 10:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ryan Flarhety

What is everyone hearing about his big league potential? I have enjoyed watching him play at Vanderbilt the last couple of years and would love evolve into a big leager. He was one of the more popular players, known as “Flash”, on a very popular team here in town. Big kid, showed power potential, athletic, D always seemed a little skiddish.

"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney

by NashvilleBlue on Oct 12, 2008 4:24 PM CDT   0 recs

Re:

If he pans out, he’ll likely be a plus offensive 2nd baseman. A lot of people compare him to Utley … I’m loathe to expect that type of quality, and I’m not sure the power is similar, but that’s one comparison I’ve read before.

by toonsterwu on Oct 12, 2008 7:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thin and mediocre list of "top" prospects

Frankly, it’s disappointing that the minor league organization isn’t in better shape. It’s also getting to a point where early returns on Tim Wilken can start to be made. I’m not sure Wilken has gotten off to the best of starts.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 12, 2008 5:08 PM CDT   0 recs

Re:

Honestly, I don’t think Wilken has gotten off to a great start, although his first draft was hampered by the loss of picks. I think it’s probably too early to make any sort of complete judgment overall, though, as most of his guys are still in the lower levels. After 2009, though, we’ll get a far clearer picture.

by toonsterwu on Oct 12, 2008 7:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Matriculation and trades...

…have sapped most of the major-league ready talent the club had. That’s not necessarily a bad thing – that is, after all, why you HAVE a farm system. But it’s a tall order for a farm system to produce three blue-chip trading chips (Donaldson, Patterson and Gallagher), add some key pieces to the team (Soto, Samardzija) and still have a lot left in the tank to work with for the next season.

Yeah, some guys like Colvin haven’t performed to expecations yet. Some like Vitters weren’t expected to be ready yet anyway. But the main reason the cupboard is empty is because we cooked dinner, not because we didn’t stock the shelves.

by cwyers on Oct 12, 2008 7:32 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

Understand...

All that is true. That said the system is still disappointingly thin. When debate centers on the wondrous virtues of Nate Spears then your system is not in the greatest shape.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 12, 2008 7:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

When you start ranking C-grade prospects, you tend to do distasteful things like that...

…and that’s true of any system. All teams have guys like Spears rattling around, and they’re not precisely trivial.

The real thing that worries me is that, once Samardzija matriculates, the Cubs will have essentially dried up their supplies of potential front-of-the-rotation starters. The system still has some live arms that wouldn’t look out of place in the 5 spot or in a swing role, but nothing really exciting.

by cwyers on Oct 12, 2008 9:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That is very distressing

Add in the fact that there are still some folks that question if Shark’s future is in the rotation. The overall inability to develop front of the rotation potential is troublesome, but Wilken and Co. did go all out on pitching this past year (though I don’t really know if any front of the rotation type potential exists … Shafer has to bounce back and get more velo, Carpenter has to add a third pitch and in general be more consistent, Cashner is likely headed to the pen … when we are hoping for Jay Jackson to surprise and develop, that is troublesome).

There simply is a lack of high end starting pitching potential in the system, which is more distressing than the lack of positional talent developing. Even in the lower levels, we have a lot of back end guys in that Muldowney/Carrillo/Chen/Caridad type mold. Rhee didn’t seem like front of the rotation type to me, although I guess he was the one guy in fullseason ball that felt like a possibility. I think Jackson has a slim shot, but really, my honest hope for those two would be to develop into solid middle of the rotation types (best case scenario). Heck, I can’t think of a kid in our system right now that screams front of the rotation potential in Boise and up. Maybe Suarez in Arizona … and there was a DSL arm that I liked.

by toonsterwu on Oct 12, 2008 9:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah.

We do have some top-flight reliever prospects, but the problem is that a failed relief prospect is at best a David Aardsma sort and at worst is nothing at all. A failed top starter prospect is still a top relief prospect and a back-of-the-rotation sort of player.

by cwyers on Oct 12, 2008 9:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

THis list is all too well why we shouyld offer arbritration to Wood and Demps

and let them walk to get the 4 draft picks….

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 12, 2008 6:37 PM CDT   0 recs

i agree with dempster

but i def say we keep wood. and wood loves chicago so much whos to say he wont just accept arbitration? This year Wood told Hendry to pay him whatever. Wood knew that he owed this team and this city, and he wanted to make up for it. Too be honest i bet Wood would be willing to take a one or two year deal from us even if it means turning down a longer deal. All in all Wood is a stand up guy and one hell of a pitcher when healthy. I could never imagine a team without Wood. I am 19 so Wood is the one guy that I have watched and been a fan of my whole life as a cubs fan.

by Glacier on Oct 13, 2008 12:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

BTW good job on the list...

My roommate actually went to high school with Brandon Guyer and was a solid friend of his….I am somewhat rooting for him….

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 12, 2008 6:38 PM CDT   0 recs

Re:

I like Guyer. At one point this year, I thought he might have the potential to be in our top 10 (not that that is saying much). He tailed off a bit at the end. Guyer’s the “Wilken-type” pick – very athletic, toolsy kid. He showed some flashes. I’ve read that they plan on working him in CF full time, and he has the athleticism for it. If he can stick there, and his bat advances, he could be quite intriguing.

by toonsterwu on Oct 12, 2008 7:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I was really impressed with Guyer...

… the game I saw him play at Wrigley Field. If, as you say, he could handle CF — he could rise quickly through the organization.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 12, 2008 7:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Here's a question for folks

PaulThomas from AN commented on my grades over at minorleagueball (I x-posted). He suggests that outside of Rosa and Vitters, no Cubs prospects are B grade-worthy. I’m wondering what people would say to that. Some valid comments were made, comments that I can buy, but I feel fairly comfortable with my grades, particularly for the guys that I gave B’s of some sort.

by toonsterwu on Oct 12, 2008 10:41 PM CDT   0 recs

It'll be a day before I can reply there...

…so I’ll reply here. The question with Colvin is can he stick in center field defensively. If you think he can, then B- can be justified. If not, C grade is probably required.

by cwyers on Oct 13, 2008 2:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

On Colvin

I don’t have much of a problem of Colvin. I can easily see C+ there. No, I don’t think he’s a CF. I actually gave him a B- because the scouting reports on him were still somewhat positive and his late surge, but I was very close to making that a C+.

Rather, the biggest debate were on the arms (Samardzija/Ceda/Cashner). I can understand Cashner – I put a Bish grade as an upside nod, but he is a pen arm and some folks don’t like upside nods. Flaherty was also a small debate, but I can buy C+ there as well.

So the main debate was Shark and Ceda, and I understand the comments on Shark. Don’t agree with it, particularly the comparison he used (Connor Robertson lacked the plus stuff which should be factored in a ranking). As for Ceda, I think the fact that he improved on his secondary pitches, improved on his command, and pumped a 12 K rate justifies a Bish grade, despite being a pen arm.

by toonsterwu on Oct 13, 2008 9:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Whatever happened to...

Pawelek? I think Adam Pawelek was his name IIRC. Wasn’t he a highly touted pitcher that we drafted pretty high out of Utah? (the state, not University). He was supposed to be nasty.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 13, 2008 12:58 PM CDT   0 recs

Mark Pawelek

Former 1st round pick. He’s just fallen off the map. There were some questions about his mental toughness, some questions on conditioning in recent years. When he was drafted, that first summer, he looked intriguing. The Cubs tried changing his mechanics, he just couldn’t find any consistency with it, and things spiraled. There were some positive XST reports this past year, but that didn’t materialize in the NW League.

by toonsterwu on Oct 13, 2008 1:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He broke his right elbow tripping over his Playstation. Enough said.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on