Why did Billy Beane give us Harden?
No doubt about it, Mr. Beane is a smart man. Ever since we traded for Harden we have felt smug that we ripped off Billy Beane. After thinking about it, I got stumped on this:
1) At the time of the trade the A's were within playoff reach.
2) Harden was on his way to having a career year, and having him locked up for next year, makes his value even better.
3. The A's got 3 major league ready prospects.
4. In a free agent pool in 09, Harden would have been shopped at the end of his season, if he were still on the A's... he would be a consolation prize to teams who lost out on CC and Burnett and Lowe. Still, his value would have been greater after the season.
5. After getting rid of harden, he shopped blanton, making it obvious he was not trying to contend this year.
6. By keeping blanton and harden through out the year, would have made their impact that much more.
7. Recap, they weren't playing for this year. Or next year, because with a pitching core of Blanton and Harden... they would have contended. Some may think the risk of harden getting hurt and losing his value would garnish anything of value in return, but I don't particularly think that's true. Anybody who has been interested in Harden knows the health risks involved. It's as storied as Ben Sheets. Even if he got hurt, his value would not go down that expontentially to where it wouldn't be worth it to shop him. They have have held on to Harden and Blanton and either traded them next mid season, or let them walk and get 4 draft picks. Harden's value outweigh his risks... So they aren't playing for next year or the following years, otherwise they would have eaten up the draft picks in 2010.
8. So why did Billy sell so low on two prized pitchers?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I think
1. The A’s never expected to compete this year, and most thought they overachieved to star the year anyways. Certainly, some cynics have said they were building towards that new stadium, and that Beane, now that he has an ownership stake, may worry more about the bottom line. I don’t necessarily buy that. I think Beane knew that his team was overachieving. They were going to work in younger pieces in the next 2 years.
2. I think they’ve been stung by Harden before and wanted to net what value they could. It wasn’t nearly as bad a trade as people made it sound. The reason I loved it as a Cub fan was because Murton/Patterson were blocked and had no room here. That said, Beane substituted readiness for the upside of lower level guys. Gallagher was a fine chip, and he took a gamble on power in Donaldson. Overall, he netted a decent return. I would’ve gone for more upside, but he balanced it out. So the answer to most of your question is, I think he wanted to get something for Harden while he could, fearing Harden would break down again. I disagree with the notion that, even if Harden got hurt, his value would still be okay. Look at what happened to Prior. Had Harden got hurt again, the chances of him netting anything of value would’ve been slim, and the chances of Harden netting two picks as a Type A would’ve been slim as well.
by toonsterwu on Oct 12, 2008 3:19 AM CDT 0 recs
harden
outside of the injury issues oakland does,nt want to pay millions to players.they prefer hundreds of thousands.i read that the cubs were the only team to ask about harden.only hendry would take the chance.
by NOMAR on Oct 12, 2008 7:37 AM CDT 0 recs
His value was never higher
B/C he was relatively healthy, by his standards, so Bean chose to strike while the iron was hot
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Oct 12, 2008 8:39 AM CDT 0 recs
Billy Beane
and the A’s are not in a position to gamble 7 million on a question mark for next year. He was obviously afraid to get nothing in return if Harden were to break down again. Obviously,the market for him was small (maybe only the Cubs) and he took what he could get. The Cubs were fortunate to get him for so little IMO and even if he needs to be nursed through the season, if he takes the hill 20 plus times and remains healthy for the postseason in 09 he is certainly worth a gamble.
by plenz on Oct 12, 2008 9:01 AM CDT 0 recs
Why?
Because he knew Harden was not that healthy, they were not going to exercise the ‘09 option for $7M and were not going to go to arbitration for him. So, instead of waiting to see who they’d get when another team signed him this offseason, they’d deal him now (or actually on July 8th). The pieces Beane got were/are servicable (specifically Gallagher and Murton), Gaudin was thrown in as an insurance policy to that affect. Note the upcoming salaries of the players obtained in return versus what was given to the Cubs. Gaudin is another $3-5M isn’t he? And he’s still under contract going into 2009, right? So that’s over $10M including the exercise of Harden’s option which the Cubs already picked up. What’s the combined 2009 salary of the players the Cubs sent? Less than $1.5M likely and it covers 4 players, albeit 1 is in the minors for sure. So that’s a difference of upwards of $10M and a ratio of salaries of say 7x.
I expect something on a similar scale with Blanton in terms of salary ratio. He got something (low cost players) in return and alleviated the salary burdon by moving Blanton to the Phils. I didn’t follow that situation as tightly as the Cubs so I don’t know all the specifics of money and player differences.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Oct 12, 2008 9:03 AM CDT 0 recs
One word.
Money.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 12, 2008 10:19 AM CDT 0 recs
True....
…to an extent, but I also think the injury trend played a role as well. Power pitchers who have a history of arm problems tend to have repeat problems down the road. Beane figured he better sell while Harden has some value, because he didn’t want to pay for a guy who was a ? in regards to health.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Oct 13, 2008 10:25 AM CDT
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Oh, and Blanton sucks.
Okay, maybe that’s a bit unkind. But he’s a very mediocre pitcher whose numbers have been artificially deflated by the Colliseum.
by cwyers on Oct 12, 2008 11:42 AM CDT 0 recs
agreed
blanton is a bum. he provides marquis numbers.
by Glacier on
Oct 12, 2008 1:57 PM CDT
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Trade Harden
this offseason to the highest bidder. DO NOT keep him around. that arm isnt getting any healthier. Someone will take a chance on him and he’s completely useless on the dl which he will be next year. I like Harden alot and loved it when we got him but he’s more valuable to us as a trade chip then as a reliable starter.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 12, 2008 3:01 PM CDT 0 recs
Umm...
they just kicked in his option for 7M for next year
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on
Oct 12, 2008 4:54 PM CDT
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They clearly have no intention of trading him then
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on
Oct 12, 2008 10:27 PM CDT
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not necessarily
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on
Oct 13, 2008 6:24 AM CDT
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And...
The A’s were not going to win the west. There was no reason not to retool.
BTW, the A’s have some stud pitchers in the minors coming up in the next few years.
In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband
by Ross on Oct 12, 2008 3:15 PM CDT 0 recs
Like who?
Not trying to call you out, just wondering. I like following that organization.
For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.
by Less is Walrond on
Oct 12, 2008 4:06 PM CDT
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Link
Rather than retype it…
http://theprospectcorner.blogspot.com/2008/07/oakland-as-top-10-prospects.html
In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband
by Ross on
Oct 13, 2008 12:11 AM CDT
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it's pretty simple
A’’s fan here. The A’s babied Harden through 11 straight healthy starts, which is pretty unusual for that him and babying is something the A’s almost never do with pitchers, then traded him to the one team (other than the Angels) that could afford to use him as a once-a-week pitcher. Donaldson looked awful the first part of the year but really good after he was traded, he could be the key.
by vk on Oct 12, 2008 4:54 PM CDT 0 recs
A's got quality in that trade
I love the addition of Rich Harden. That said Sean Gallagher is going to be a quality major league starting pitcher in this league. Reminds me of former Cub Steve Trachsel which is to say the potential to be a good 4th starter type. Josh Donaldson has the label of being a guy who can flat out hit. I’ve heard comparisons to current A’s player Daric Barton who came over from the Cardinals in the Dan Haren deal a few years ago. If Donaldson can be a Barton type then that is a clear asset.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on
Oct 12, 2008 5:18 PM CDT
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"quality major league starting pitcher" equates to "the potential to be a good 4th starter type"???
man, oh man, how MLB standards have fallen…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Oct 13, 2008 12:48 AM CDT
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People weren't listening to Billy Beane last winter when he said 2008 was rebuilding campaign...
Despite the surprising start of the A’s in 2008 Billy Beane, in his typical fashion, didn’t deviate from the stated plan. That stated plan? To rebuild once again with an eye toward when the A’s will open up their new stadium in Fremont. Beane doesn’t screw around when he says he is going to get at it. Trading Harden and Blanton was according to plan.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 12, 2008 4:54 PM CDT 0 recs
The A's did NOT get three major league ready prospects.
They got Eric Patterson and Matt Murton, neither of whom ended the year in Oakland and neither of whom is probably going to have any significant ML career, and Josh Donaldson, who MIGHT turn into something but is probably at least three years away.
I’ll take that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 12, 2008 7:49 PM CDT 0 recs
Murton's not a prospect...
…but the A’s did get three major-league ready players.
Of course, everyone should bear in mind that guys like Pablo Ozuna and Willie Mo Pena are still rattling around the majors. Being “major league ready” doesn’t mean being a star, or even being a league average player. It basically just means that leaving you in the minors any longer isn’t apt to improve you any, and that you’re apt to outhit you typical pitcher if given enough at-bats.
by cwyers on
Oct 12, 2008 8:55 PM CDT
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I guess.
The post implied that the A’s were getting something good, which in reality, they weren’t.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Oct 13, 2008 8:05 AM CDT
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Harden Getting Treatment For The Shoulder?
I thought I heard he might have a “clean out” performed – is this still the plan? And is Zambrano scheduling any treatment to combat his shoulder woes?
Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.
by CaliCub on Oct 12, 2008 10:47 PM CDT 0 recs
Z needs to get treatment for his head woes first
although he seemed more mature than normal in his last appearance.
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on
Oct 12, 2008 10:50 PM CDT
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sounds like a shoulder enema...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Oct 13, 2008 12:49 AM CDT
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This has been gone over.
He’s not.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Oct 13, 2008 8:05 AM CDT
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Sorry, didn't realize this was gone over.
Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.
by CaliCub on
Oct 13, 2008 11:45 PM CDT
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When the option was picked up...
… it was announced, “no surgery”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Oct 14, 2008 7:45 AM CDT
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