Ryan Dempster
by ambrosiadreams on Oct 12, 2008 7:02 PM CDT
68 comments
I've read quite a few fanposts since the end of our playoffs regarding Ryan Dempster, so I feel the need to chip in my two cents.
Dempster exceeded my wildest expectations this year as our most consistent starter. I fully expected him to have a good year, but the year he had will get him a few votes for a Cy Young award. Former starter to Tommy John surgery to a solid closer for a few years back to a top of the line rotation guy, this guy is a flat out winner.
It also is very clear that he is loved in the Clubhouse. I've read nearly every Cub this year rave about his lightheartedness, and about what a wonderful teammate he is. He is also very active in giving back to the community.
So, my question to everybody wanting to play GM this offseason is this:
How can you let this guy walk? Why would you not want him on your team??
Comments welcome
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Demp
You have to ask yourself the question, what would he get on the open market? Kyle Lohse just got 4/41, and Demp had a far superior year than he did. For four years, I think Dempster could command around 50-55M.
That being said, I do think he’ll give the Cubs a discount, because he loves playing here. I’d offer 2/26 with a vesting option for the third year at 14M. Or make it a mutual option. I think that would get it done, and I think Dempster would accept it. If not, make it a guaranteed 3/40. I’d be nervous about giving him a four year deal though.
by kanderber on Oct 12, 2008 7:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if
demp wants to play here—he and hendry will work it out, if he decides to hit the open market—he’s gone.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 12, 2008 7:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dempster will sign with the Cubs
Which I shall continue to insist will be move that is regretted by the Cubs. There is NO WAY I give Dempster a 4 year deal in the financial neighborhood he will command. But Dempster knows that he’s dealing with Jim “Blank Check” Hendry.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 12, 2008 7:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You assume it will take a 4 year deal to sign Dempster.
You know what they say about assumptions…..
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Oct 12, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't it?
So far this offseason:
Kyle Lohse: Four years, $41,000,000
2007:
Carlos Silva: Four years, $48,000,000
2006:
Ted Lilly: Four years, $40,000,000
Gil Meche: Five years, $55,000,000
Jeff Suppan: Four years, $44,000,000
Vincente Padilla: Three years, $33,750,000
Why on earth would Dempster sign with the Cubs for chump change?
by cwyers on Oct 12, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats what I'm afraid of
were either gonna take on a goofy contract or let him walk. same thing I fear we do with harden. keep him around depending on him to be a key piece. take the emotion out of these players and use smart judgment. if demp wants a reasonable 2-3 yr deal—lock him up but you dump harden if you can get a descent return for him.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 12, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he want a reasonable deal...
…when there are likely to be 7 or 8 teams offering unreasonable deals?
by cwyers on Oct 12, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
cause he likes it here at least thats what the fan in me wants. If i’m dempster I let the bidding begin cause ur right their will be alot of teams throwing money his way.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 13, 2008 6:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the argument for taking a lesser deal
I think that Dempster would well understand the argument for taking something less than the best $$$ deal possible.
Look at Barry Zito. While he has the big money, he can’t perform to the level necessary to earn it, so he will continue to be the butt of a lot of jokes and fan derision until he finds a way out of this. I know, there is the argument about crying all the way to the bank, but if you have any pride at all, you don’t really want to be in his place.
by vonde6 on Oct 13, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster may well take less money to stay with the Cubs...
…than he would make with the Cubs. The question is how much. I really don’t think it’s reasonable for people to expect Dempster to sign for the Cubs on a Jason Marquis sort of contract.
by cwyers on Oct 13, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking over that list again...
…the best-case scenario for Dempster is that he turns out like Meche or Lilly. The worst-case scenario is that he turns out like Padilla or Suppan.
by cwyers on Oct 12, 2008 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I have problem with handing out a 4 year, $50 million type contract for Ryan Dempster. That is the type of contract he should readily command in this market, even if he is willing to give the Cubs a modest discount.
This is a case of Jim Hendry being less brilliant and more the guy who is really good at handing over fat checks. Where was his baseball acumen in evaluating Alfonso Soriano? Or as we are learning Kosuke Fukudome? It’s easy to write big fat checks when you have the blessing of the boss.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets
stop taking pot shots at hendry over the fuku/soriano deals. its utterly ridiculous to do that. at the time of the sori deal he was arguably the best player on the market and we were in bad need of a boost. 40/40 player and the early bird got the worm on that deal. hendry struck fast before any other team could talk him out of it. as streaky as he is and as much as we all wanna ring his neck at times he’s still a good player.
alot of fans including myself wanted zito. glad we didnt get him. we wanted beltran too—he’s as hot and cold as soriano is period.
as far as fuku goes not only was he the best player over there but he was a left handed right fielder in which we needed last fall. another thing is and was—we opened up a gate for other asian players to come to chicago. as I see it they mostly wanna play on the coasts. hey if he likes it here and I havent heard anything different, he may help us in the future by talking others into signing in chi town instead of one the coast teams. it hasnt turned out to be what we expected thus far but I wanted him as well as most fans did.
in ending its easy to go back and critcize hendry now but at the time most werent.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 13, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullcrap
Jim Hendry got into a bidding war with himself for Alfonso Soriano. Who were the quality teams out there aggressively pursuing Soriano and willing to pay the guess hitting hack a ridiculous $136 million over 8 years?!?!
Carlos Beltran is much better ballplayer than Soriano. It’s no contest in fact.
Hendry is culpable for poor baseball evaluation. Any idiot can hand over fact checks if his boss is willing to blindly foot the bill. Soriano is the type of ballplayer who can’t be evaluated simply by the statistics printed on the back of his bubblegum card. He’s second division player who should be back accumulating all those wondrous personal stats for the Washington Nationals or Texas Rangers. Places where he doesn’t have accountability for helping the team win and can go up their hacking with a clear conscioius because the team has little expectation for winning.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
beltran
what has beltran done besides the one unbelievable postseason?? he certainly hasnt lead his team to the playoffs. bluemike you can run around here spewing your mess with someone else. you only critcize after the fact. hendry drug his feet on both beltran and furcal. we needed a big name outfielder that offseason and hendry went out and did what it took to get one. the whole free agent process is one big crap shoot anyway. who knows whats gonna happen. howry was unbelievable with the indians. how did that deal turn out? zito was great with the a’s. how about that one. a gm’s job is to go out and get the best available players he can. for the most part hendry has done that. name a gm that hasnt made mistakes?
your quick to criticize everything after the fact. we dont know what happens behind closed doors. we dont know whether a player does or dont wanna play in chicago. so to imply that if we had beltran and not soriano is senseless. beltran hasnt won anything in new york.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 13, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 numbers
beltran 27 hr 112 rbi 25 sb 179 hits 284 avg!!!
reed/edmonds platoon—-26 hr 105 rbi 7 sb 181 hits .269 avg
theirs the numbers mdbiu. almost the exact same production. hendry paid the league minumum x2 for our CF and the mets paid 17 million for beltran. guess that makes hendry bad their too?
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 13, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Angels had a similar deal ready for Soriano.
They offered 7 years, the Cubs offered 8. He was the premier free agent on the market at the time, and most people here hailed the decision.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I've said..
If Dempsters going to want 15+, why not jsut go after Sabathia? We need a horse with the healt questions with Z and Harden.
Devin Hester, you are ridiculous! -Jeff Joniak
by ARAM FOR MVP on Oct 12, 2008 9:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I see your concern..
But Sabathia would be 34 by that time, and pitchers usually age well.
Don’t tell me you wouldn’t be going crazy in happiness if we got him.
Devin Hester, you are ridiculous! -Jeff Joniak
by ARAM FOR MVP on Oct 12, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong
but I think our concerns our winning in the playoffs. With that said have you ever seen C.C. pitch in the playoffs? I have and I don’t want him.
Clever signature line
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Oct 13, 2008 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers don't usually age well.
Oh, sure, there are a few guys still pitching in their 40s, but almost all of them have had at least borderline Hall-of-Fame careers or just absoluetly suck.
Remember, decline in pitchers is not just in ERA, but in IP as well.
by cwyers on Oct 13, 2008 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially when you factor in
all the innings someone like Sabathia pitched down the stretch this year…
"There is not a better offense in America. Missouri has had 48 possessions and scored on 33 of them. The nation's No. 1 scoring offense has punted just five times and has yet to go three-and-out." Tom Dienhart, Rivals.com
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 13, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with how many innings C.C. has thrown
I’d be leary of him having to one day have elbow or shoulder surgury because of the extensive amount of work that has been placed on his arm
2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..
by Chanman25 on Oct 13, 2008 6:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because CC Sabathia is going to get Johan Santana money at a minimum...
There is going to be an extreme bidding war for Sabathia, and the participants are going to include the Yankees and the Mets. Maybe even the Red Sox.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers.
I’m guessing that’s where CC ends up.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 13, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right. I'm guessing he wants to stay in the NL. The Mets have
an ace and some other more important needs. With the new stadium, they may stick their toes in the C.C. water, but I don’t think they will be serious.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 13, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe Instead of Dempster?
If Lowe’s agent asks for roughly the same amount as Dempster, I’d be tempted to go with Derek. Although Lowe is older he has better career numbers (I just figured out what ERA+ means, hooray for me!).
Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.
by CaliCub on Oct 12, 2008 10:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But...
Derrek Lowe is California native who loves pitching for the Dodgers and being close to his kids who live with his divorced wife. I imagine the Dodgers are quite anxious and willing to re-sign Lowe to another deal.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Close To My Family" = Leverage
You show a player enough money and I’ll show you a guy that would be only too ready to relocate, his wife and kids be darned.
Isn’t Derek Lowe a Michigan native?
Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.
by CaliCub on Oct 13, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster Convert...
I am the first to admit when I heard they were letting Dempster convert to a starter I was skeptical…
The last few years as a reliever Dempster was… a rollercoaster…
He was either good… or Horrible…
and Ryan… if by some chance you might see this…
I would like to formally apologize for doubting you…
I am firmly in the “Show Him the Money” camp…
and as far as contract length… 3/35 and a 4th year option for 15M more…
and Hendry… if you have any sense you and the blank check book will come thru…
He was our Ace…
Don’t get Me wrong… I love Big Z… but Dempster was a rock all season…
One bad game, I mean real bad game all season was Game 1 of the series…
With all that was happening and the pressure, I think even a HOF’er would have stumbled…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
by Endrick on Oct 13, 2008 1:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
3/35 is an insult.
I mean seriously. Kyle Lohse just got 4/41 for a worse season.
by cwyers on Oct 13, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is...
3/35 a insult… that’s 11.6 million a year… add in some performance bonuses and such
plus a 15M a year option for the 4th…
Dempster wants to stay here and I imagine would give us a bit of a break…
I’m not comfortable with giving him CC Money…
I like the guy and he was one of our 2 aces this year… but…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
by Endrick on Oct 13, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's an insult if the market is paying more. Dempster doesn't owe the Cubs anything. He
worked his butt off and now it’s time to pay. That’s the way it works. You may not like it, but it’s reality.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 13, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and...
3/35 + 15 option is the same as the 4/50 people are talking about…
not including performance bonuses…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
by Endrick on Oct 13, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen brother
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else are the Cubs suppose to do?
Go after CC, I believe that is a pipe dream. CC will demand and get a 6-7 year deal in the 110-120 range easy, do you really thing the Cubs are willing to go that route? Cubs are still up for sale, and to add that contract on top of Z’s, Soriano’s and Ramy’s, I just don’t see it
Go after Lowe, 36 year old, pitches in a great pitchers park and had a so-so year, until August-September. He will get at least 2 years if not 3 for 12-13 million a year, no thanks
Who else is out there? I sign Demp, will he throw as well as this year? probably not, but 13-15 wins on this club is not unreasonable to ask and get.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Oct 13, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd think...
…there is a 75% chance Dempster signs with the Cubs. He should and will shop for other offers, and he will probably end up siging with the Cubs for 4 years (maybe 3 with an option) at slightly less money than he was offered on the open market.
The only thing that could screw this up is if someone gave him a 5 year deal (which is nuts), which may give Hendry significant pause. Sure, they could go after Lowe or Sabathia, but what if they don’t get either one?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 13, 2008 10:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No chance Dempster accepts less than 4 years in this market
He’d be a fool to do otherwise. He will have zero problem commanding at least 4 years and $50 million. Which to me is something the Cubs need to walk away from.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right
n/t
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 13, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree.
In this market, 4/50 isn’t that much money — look at what guys like Santana, Zambrano already got, and what Sabathia probably will get.
If you want to hedge the 4th year, make it a mutual option year. But 4/50 would get it done, and I’d do it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 13, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with ya...
…what I agreed on was Dempster would not sign for less than 4. Unless his demands are out of line, they should make every effort to sign him. In that regard, I disagree with MDBNIU.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 13, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster WILL sign with the Cubs
Hendry will dish out 4 years and around $50 million. It’s easy for Hendry to make this move and he will. One, Hendry has been handed carte blanche to do what he wants to do. Two, Sam Zell has let the Cubs spend money and cut blank checks on players. Three, Hendry has the “luxury” of not thinking long-term because he doesn’t have long-term job security in Chicago so long as the ownership thing remains unsettled.
So if you’re Hendry why not pay Dempster whatever to bring him back. Big mistake in my view. Dempster is coming off a career year with plenty of luck involved (wind blew in for most of his Wrigley starts and he lived precariously with all those walks). Next year Dempster could just as easily turn in Jeff Suppan like numbers for all we know.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
… Dempster didn’t walk all that many until the latter part of the year. I’d like to see evidence of “wind blowing in” before you simply make that statement.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 13, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It all depends...
…which Dempster we see in 09. Do we get more of the one that walked 7 guys, or the pitcher we saw most of the year? Considering he did very well for over 30 starts, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I have said for a long time, Dempster has very good stuff, he just needs to throw enouph strikes. When I thought he would fail as a starter, it was because I didn’t think he would have enouph command. He proved during the regular season his stuff is good enouph (94 mph tailing fastball, decent slider and very good splitter) if he just throws strikes. The other thing is this; I think Dempster is a battler, and even though he tossed all over himself in the playoff game, he is the type of guy who will want to make a mends for that. He does after all, have that Canadian hockey mentality.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 13, 2008 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they call Jeff Suppan a "battler" too and look where that got Milwaukee
Yes I know that Dempster and Suppan are two different breeds of pitchers. But the analogy is accurate nonetheless.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is the analogy "accurate"
You are free to argue that this year was a total freak occurrence that can never be repeated but it was FAR
better then Suppan’s best year so why should they be compared ?
Also though I did not read a lot of posts I may well have missed your mea culpa for assuring us Harden would be healthy and would be the lights out guy we needed in the post season. While his line score is a bit better than Dempster it ain’t that big a difference. Clearly not the kind of guy we can rely on in a crunch now is he ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 13, 2008 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suppan's...
…stuff is puss compared to Dempster’s.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 13, 2008 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The analogy is accurate nonetheless"
Shades of Michael Scott: “What? Yes. I am right.”
"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"
by cubs0505 on Oct 14, 2008 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to believe that Dempster can pitch this well again, but I don't trust it.
However, one of the things that impressed me so much this season with him is that he really came in to camp in shape. He was energized and fit and ready to compete.
I am not going to criticize Hendry for re-signing Dempster, it’s a typical move for Hendry. One thing in advance is that people should not get on Dempster next season if his W/L is less favorable. It will be extremely difficult for him to duplicate that because it’s not so much within his control. He needs to keep his Ks up and BBs down and I know we will be gambling that he does. I suppose the other interesting aspect to this is what does Dempster want to do? He could easily walk for more money and arguably far less pressure. To me it would be a stunner if Dempster decided to kiss the Cubs goodbye.
by DudeVf11 on Oct 13, 2008 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dump Demp
Get rid of Edmonds and Fukodome too, and sign some pitchers. We won’t win without pitchers. We have Carlos, Ted, Rich and go get A.J. from the Jays and we have our team for next year. Soriano LF, Johnson CF, DeRosa RF, A-Ram 3B, TheRiot SS, Fontenot 2B, D-Lee 1B, Geo C. Starting day line-up next year. Hof lefty on the bench can play 1B and OF. We don’t need a repeat of Fukodome to bring the club down again. Our pen is stacked with returning talent and lack of one starter and we do it, but it needs to be A.J.
by cubbiemack on Oct 13, 2008 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
betting on Harden AND AJ?
Might as well load up the rest of the chambers with fragile pitchers and start playing Russian Roulette in earnest.
by vonde6 on Oct 13, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster Story
One day last season my daughter and I went to see the chokers….er I mean Cubs, play the Dodgers in LA. The game was tied in the 9th and of course the Cubs choked up the winning run. (I think Marmol hit Juan Pierre with the bases loaded. It was real ugly.) Anyway Ryan Dempster, who was warming up, comes walking back from the bullpen, spots my daughter in the stands, and comes right over and gives her the baseball he was warming up with. It was pretty cool. Her face lights up and we thank him. I tell him “I take back every bad thing I’ve ever said about you” which is a lot! He smiled, said thanks and walked on.
"Hitter-ish is a good word,."- Lou Pinella
by tedinSoCal on Oct 13, 2008 2:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CC
I am surprised that I don’t see any folks that are seem to think the Cubs might go after CC this offseason. To me, he is the most logical off season move. Sure, SP is not a real weakness for the Cubs, but… Dempster is a candidate for a regression. Z has not exactly been consistent the last two years and there must be some concern that he showed signs of wear this year. Harden… enough said. I like Lily, alot, but honestly, he is a #3ish starter.
This team is built to win now. Any blow to the rotation and this team starts looking pretty shaky.
We can certainly talk about the failure of the bats to come through in the post season this year and last, but to me, much of that relates back to some SP struggles that really ratcheted up the pressure (which unfortunately they wilted under). Game 2 last year and game 1 this year were real stinkers by the SP. Adding a guy like CC would be a real change.
Sure, CC doesn’t have the best post season record. I am willing to excuse him at least for this year though after the Brewers drove him into the ground (not criticizing them, they did what they needed to do).
Will he be expensive, yes. Can the Cubs afford him. Sure. To me, this decision is not unlike the Carlos Beltran or Vlad free agencies in recent years. This guy is a game changer. The teams that win via the open market make the big signings and trades. The Cubs have gotten this far through some shrewd trades and overspending on some A- free agents.
This team may, as currently assembled, win it for us, but I would be much more confident with a major addition to the rotation.
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Oct 13, 2008 5:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
um let's see
our starting pitching was probably the best thing about the team and the reason we did not complete in the post season is THAT THEY COULD NOT HIT so let’s go out and spend 140 million plus on a guy with a crappy post season record ? We still have no lead off hitter
major issues with middle relief, issues with SS, CF & RF and we are going to blow money on CC ?. I don’t get the idea of wanting the brightest thing in the toy store even if you don’t need it ( well as much as other things). Hey let’s sign Varitek because he has so much
great post season experience. I mean it does not matter that we HAVE a great young catcher let’s just buy someone who might help
in the post season. For the record Dempster will probably get about half of what CC will get and I have no problem with 4/48 type deal. MBNIU would probably rather spend that with a contract extension for his hero Harden but silly me I would rather spend on a HEALTHY pitcher. If Dempster goes and Harden can’t pitch ( gee that could NEVER happen) you have to go to what Guzman, Shark etc and Marshall is your FOURTH starter. So for everyone wanting to dump Dempster, who is your back up. You really trust Harden to be healthy all year when he NEVER is ? First people bitched that Lilly was too much though nobody says that now, most of the season everyone was livid at Marquis and his high salary but he ended up getting crucial wins. If it ain’’t broke , don’t fix it, spend what it takes to keep it,
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 13, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offense and pitching
Last time I checked the Cubs also led the NL in runs scored, so by that logic why pursue more offense?
I am not saying the Cubs should dump Dempster. My point is that CC is the best way for the Cubs to improve their ballclub.
I would trade Marquis, and slide Harden back to the #5 slot, with marshall/Shark backing him up. You then have a true #1 in CC, a 1a in Big Z, 3 #3’s with Lilly Dempster and Harden. That is a great rotation. As i said in my previous post, if you swap Marquis (or marshall/shark) for CC, sure, you have a good chance at a good rotation. You also run the risk of having some implosions. As we saw, Harden is a great pitcher whose health cannot be counted on, particularly late in the season. Z is both unpredictable and now an injury risk (Hmmm… let’s see here, have we ever played the count on the pitchers with injury risk game before…)
If you add CC, then all of a sudden you have room to wiggle. Is it costly? Sure, but remember that after next year Harden and Lilly could possibly be replaced with Marshall and Shark, leaving you with a comparably priced rotation to what we had this year.
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Oct 13, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we did NOT hit at all in the post season
and the hitting during the season was insanely streaky while the starting pitching was pretty consistent. I find it somewhere between silly and nuts to even think of going after Sabathia who will want a Zito PLUS contract and we know how that worked out.
FIX THE HOLES don’t go blowing a mint on the one in five day guy who has been bad in the post season.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 13, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are these mutually exclusive?
I don’t see the Cubs spending big money on a bat, if for no other reason that there really aren’t any big bats that match one of the Cubs holes.
With Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, and Soto the Cubs have their high profile hitters. Sure, there are some areas for improvement. I figure that between CF, RF, and 2B the Cubs probably need to make 1 addition. Johnson plus a lefty (Pie of Fukudome) is fine in CF. De Rosa would play some RF and 2B, sharing time with Fukudome and Fontenot respectively. Sure, we could improve that set of positions. But with who?
I still say that the Cubs should add the best player available that they can and that player is unquestionably CC Sabathia.
Again, I don’t buy the “bad in the post season” line. He was spent this year.
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Oct 14, 2008 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this straight
The Cubs will spend 50 Million or so to re-sign Dempster, 140 million or so to sign CC, eat say 5 million to trade Marquis?
You do NOT sign the “best available” player if that player does not play the position you most need. Yes you can always use a great pitcher but right now the Cubs need a REAL lead off hitter and or SS & CF. You work to fix the PROBLEMS in the team before adding an expensive luxury item.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 14, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
Cubs aren’t going to be in the bidding for CC Sabathia. Anybody with functioning brain cells acknowledges this.
What happens this time of year are two things….
A. Pie-in-the-sky free agent signings and trade proposals (we’ve already been inundated with enough to choke a horse and it’s only October).
B. Fierce defense of selected certain players who only a couple weeks ago were the culprits that led to our crash and burn playoff experience (e.g., Alfonso Soriano, Derrek Lee).
C. Stiff rebuke of criticism pointed to Jim “Blank Check” Hendry, to include his vaunted farm system.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 14, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let's hear it.
Hendry put together a team that won 97 games during the regular season — that should merit praise, not criticism. If you have a specific criticism of exactly what Hendry did to make a team that stopped winning once the calendar changed from September to October, let’s hear it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought...
…this past season was a very good one for Hendry. Clearly, it makes his job easier (at least in the short term) to be able to spend a lot of money, but he put together a solid team and he even tried to acquire what has become so obvious this club needs – a leadoff hitter in Roberts, so he and Lou had good forsight.
After watching the 07 and 08 playoff performances of his core group, he is clearly asking himself, Lou and his staff questions on what they can do to get over the hump. The answers they come up with are going to be very interesting to watch and also how much he will have in resources to correct a weakness that comes up at the worst possible moments.
There are a lot of GM’s that would choose to send a message to his club when you have had two straight poor playoff performances. Will Hendry choose that path and try to trade one of his core players? Or, will he keep the core intact and simply try to add obvious holes in other areas – leadoff and left handed hitter with pop.
It will be interesting to see which direction they choose.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 14, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Hendry has been a player’s GM throughout his career — one reason many people want to come to the Cubs is they know Hendry will treat them fairly.
If that means trading Derrek Lee, for example, Hendry will try to make it the best deal possible for the team AND the player.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Functioning Brain Cells?
ooo that stings…
Do I expect the Cubs to sign CC? no.
However, I will still argue that of all the players available this offseason he would have by far the greatest positive impact on the Cubs chances of winning the WS.
Where are we going to magically get a leadoff hitter from? Roberts? been down that road. Furcal? a bad back would scare me off.
Sure, I would be looking for a bat, but to me that bat could likely be a platoon player who can share time with Pie/Johnson/Fukudome/DeRosa/Fontenot at either 2B or in the OF.
If there was an available player who could fill one of those positions I would say go for it, but there is not.
As I said above, the best way for the Cubs to improve is to sign CC. Period.
In 1992, there was a team that was generally considered to have the best starting pitching in baseball. They led the league in ERA and had sent two SP to the All Star game, and as a team they were coming off of a world series appearance.
There was however the 1992 Cy Young award winner entering the FA market. Should they pursue him?
pishaaaww you say. You don’t invest in such luxury items! Anyone with a functioning brain cell knows this!
Oh. wait…
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Oct 14, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I would trade Marquis"
Yet another mouse clicker. You going to eat that $10 million he’s getting, too?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Cubs would need to eat $10 mil
Marquis was one of the top #5 starters in MLB this year. At this point he is a one year rental. A guy who could be brought in to sure up a rotation that has some holes.
Would teams want to take him on long term? probably not, but he has a 1 year deal remaining. Figure that if he was a FA right now he would probably be looking at around 2-3 years $16-24 million. On3 year at $10 isn’t a bad deal.
I am not counting on a big return, and the Cubs may need to toss in a couple $ or take on a couple million in return, but I absolutely don’t see him as untradeable.
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Oct 14, 2008 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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