Building A Cubs Champion: "The Chicago Cubs Are On The Air!"
That's the signature phrase Vince Lloyd used to use when introducing WGN radio broadcasts, for more than 20 years from the mid-1960's through the mid-1980's.
This post is going to be far shorter than yesterday's, and there's a reason for that -- one thing the Cubs have always been ahead of virtually every other team in doing, is pioneering new things in baseball broadcasting and telecasting. Did you know that WGN-TV was the first to use a center field camera? In the early 1950's, it was assumed that the best view of the pitcher and batter was from overhead -- the behind-the-plate upper deck shot. In 1954, WGN, which did other local events, televised some Little League games from Thillens Stadium (no, I am not making this up). Because of the tight quarters there and no place to put a camera behind the plate, they installed one in center field.
They quickly discovered that this shot was like gold -- showed movement on pitches, showed the pitcher and the batter in their confrontation, and with zoom lenses made the action far more close-up than with the overhead shot. When they began using this at Wrigley Field, it was quickly copied by other local and national baseball telecasters.
Innovations like this and the fact that WGN-TV telecast more games in the 1950's and 1960's than any other station, carrying home games for both the Cubs and White Sox until 1967, made WGN-TV the best baseball broadcaster in the country. P. K. Wrigley got virtually everything wrong in his stewardship of the Cubs after 1945, but one thing he did was right -- telecasting all the Cubs' home games created two or three generations of fans. Many baseball owners were horrified when they learned that Wrigley was going to do this -- they feared that if people could watch at home for free, why would they come to the games?
Wrigley may not have known baseball, but he knew marketing, and he was right. Watching the games at home made people want to go to the ballpark. Each telecast was a two-plus hour commercial for the Cubs -- and Jack Brickhouse would shill nearly every day for people to "come on down, plenty of seats available!" In the early years -- the 50's and early 60's -- this didn't translate into huge attendance gains, largely because the team was awful -- but there was an audience ready to dive in as soon as the team got good, including me, a junior-high kid in the late '60s.
The same thing happened when the Cubs and WGN went national in the early 1980's. Having the Cubs as one of only two teams on national cable -- and in the 1980's, when the other one, the Braves, were a bad team -- created a legion of Cubs fans nationwide, some expatriate Chicagoans, some (including, I know, some regular BCB'ers) who had never lived in Chicago.
They haven't always made the best selection of broadcasters -- none of us will ever lament the Davey Nelson or Joe Carter Eras in Cubs broadcasting -- but the Cubs were always there for their fans, creating memories, whether it was Vince & Lou on the radio, or Jack or Harry or Steve on TV. Even now, virtually every Cub game -- with the exception of the silly Fox blackouts -- is available nationwide, if you are willing to pay for cable or satellite delivery.
So what's next? I expect the new owner of the Cubs, whoever it is (and whether or not he keeps the 25% ownership the Cubs have in Comcast SportsNet or sells it off), to investigate the possibility of starting a 24/7 Cubs network, like the Yankees' YES Network in New York. That'd carry most of the Cubs games -- given the fact that WGN is drifting away from baseball, it seems logical, although YES does produce some games carried on New York broadcast TV -- and other shows relating to the Cubs, probably replaying games so that people who miss a day game could see it at night, and perhaps also negotiating with the Bulls or Blackhawks to carry some of their games (as YES does with the New Jersey Nets).
The YES Network is probably THE primary reason the Yankees have outspent every other team over the last ten years. It has generated hundreds of millions of dollars for the Yankees, and since this money is not subject to MLB's revenue sharing agreements, the Yankees keep it all to themselves. It hasn't stopped Yankee ticket prices from heading through the stratosphere -- check out some of the new Yankee Stadium ticket prices -- and the Yankees stayed home this October, but there's no doubt that their plan is to do whatever it takes to develop revenue sources that will continue to allow them to compete each and every year.
The Cubs, with limited room for advertising at Wrigley Field (and though I suspect they may try to figure out how to put a video board in, as I wrote yesterday, they may not be able to do so), would be well served with such a TV channel; it could generate huge amounts of revenue, far more than they get now, and allow them to increase player payroll to keep it among the top ranks of baseball. They've got a first-rate TV broadcasting team in place in Len Kasper and Bob Brenly, that could be together for many years, and Pat Hughes is one of the best radio play-by-play men in the business. I know that Ron Santo is a hot-button topic for many here; Ron is almost 69 years old and not in the best of health, and I suspect that he may retire soon, especially if he is elected to the Hall of Fame this coming winter.
When we look back at this period in Cubs history 20 or 25 years from now, we will, I think, see it as the dawn of a glorious era. It's hard to think of that now with the crashing playoff defeats of the last two years. But what has happened since 2003 is just prologue, I believe, to making "the next millennium ours", as my old T-shirt said. Building a broadcasting empire second to none will be a major building block in that future.
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109 comments
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Comments
As long as the Cubs network is not owned by Comcast...
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Oct 14, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, that'd be the whole point of starting their own network.
Owning it themselves.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Change the Blackout Rules
The 24/7 channel would be an even better idea, if MLB relaxed its blackout restrictions. That would mean people that pay could actually see every single Cubs game on TV. I don’t know the likelihood of the blackout restrictions being relaxed, especially the ones by Fox on Saturdays.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 14, 2008 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have consistently argued in favor of this position.
I dunno about the Fox blackouts — Fox pays so much money they’re likely to stay.
But the other blackout restrictions — the three-decade-old territorial restrictions — need to go on the ash heap of history.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe MLB is seriously going to finally take a look at the blackouts issue.
It seems to be the #1 complaint among fans of out of town fans.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Oct 14, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any reason you believe this?
I think this will happen…when Selig moves on.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Oct 14, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think it'll happen sooner.
They’re already investigating this. It should be easy to end — just stop it. No one’s going to lose any money by lifting the blackouts — in fact, if they did so, more people would probably buy MLB.TV.
Stupidity never stopped them before, though.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand blackouts...
…on regular TV, but if people are willing to pay for MLB EI, they should be able to watch all games, and not be subjected to blackouts. I missed Z’s no hitter because of blackout rules for ESPN’s Sunday night telecast — TOTALLY UNFAIR and BAD BUSINESS!
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
by calicubfan on Oct 14, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The no-hitter was a special case...
… but I agree with you; that game should have been granted an exception and should at least have been available through EI and on MLB.TV.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was on MLB.tv
because I watched it. However it may have been blackout regionally.
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Oct 14, 2008 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't available on EI
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
by calicubfan on Oct 14, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should have been.
They should have made an exception due to the extraordinary circumstances of having the game moved.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 15, 2008 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The advent of cable TV
in the early 80’s into markets like mine in Iowa made me a Cubs fan. I watched many games thinking I would like to be there. So yes Al, you are 100% correct about building a fan base. If I’m not watching a game, or listening to the WGN radio feed on a local radio station (or both) it means work got it the way.
I think the logical step is to expand the TV market, with caution, and here it is. Comcast was never picked up by our local cable company in the hometown of the Iowa Cubs and a dominate cubs market. Myself and others, went to satellite TV for our cubs. Our same local cable provider did not pick up the Big Ten Network, just adding it about a month ago. This means a new Cubs only network still has to have the national attention and price to be picked up by cable and satellite and not be cut out of the market for common fans like me. The baseball package would be my only alternative and I would do it, but reluctantly. The intention should be to get the games to the fans across the country, not remove it because of high dollar pricing. MLB is going to have to cooperate and remove some antique rules on blackouts too.
I like the plan and it is a logical step. Just don’t leave us common fans with our Cubs.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Oct 14, 2008 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
....don't leave us WITHOUT our Cubs
(sorry, typo)
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Oct 14, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Count me as one of the WGN Cubs fan
Having never been to the state of Illinois, I grew up watching Cubs on WGN, seems less games every year get televised. A Cubs network channel wouldn’t be a national fan favorite, as it would be years before charter and other small cable networks would add that channel to its lineup
by JPetey on Oct 14, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I imagine it would be available on satellite, though.
Might make a lot of people switch — and if that happens, watch the smaller cable companies add it in a big hurry.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's one of my worries also
if the Cubs go to a Cubs Network it might not be available national. I currently use MLB.tv to catch the Cubs games not televised on WGN. I have cable and would consider switching to satellite if it meant getting the Cubs network.
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Oct 14, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't take long.
There is immense value in having all of the Cubs games on one channel, instead of the current mix of CSN, WGN, WCIU, and CLTV games we’re putting up with – especially because the WGN games are the only ones currently available outside of the Chicago market.
“CUB” – Cubs Universal Broadcasting, or CubTV or whatever – would solve all of that. All the games (with the exception of games aired on a national channel), a news-type show with game and roster analysis, a show focusing on the minor league affiliates, coverage of the draft, coverage of the Cubs Convention, biographies of Cub greats, all of the feature films and documentaries involving the Cubs — there’s an immense amount of content available and content that could be easily created, and that’s not even considering the potential addition of some basketball and hockey, and discussion of Bears-Bulls-Hawks-etc.
It took the Big Ten Network a year or so to get 100% market coverage, but they’re there now. The Cubs easily have enough of an audience to get a spot on the big cable providers. It’s an absolute no-brainer, and would go a long way to reverse the brand dilution the Cubs have recklessly engaged in since they started moving games off of WGN Superstation.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very few people would switch to Sat
Cubs along with the Rockies may be the dominate team here in Nebraska, but not enough people would switch to Satellite to make a difference. Baseball just isn’t that big here.
by JPetey on Oct 14, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be picked up by most cable companies.
Look at the Big10 Network. They were on DirecTV immediately, but they fought Comcast for a full year before coming to a deal.
The Cubs have a huge audience across the country, which would result in viewers demanding the channel, and which would allow the Cubs to charge the cablecos a relatively low rate per customer while still raking in cash.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comcast
Is the most annoying cable company in the world.
"You would never guess that a little innocent walk like that could lead to two runs" -- Dusty Baker
by KyCubsFan on Oct 14, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially that new, annoying ad campaign.
"There is not a better offense in America. Missouri has had 48 possessions and scored on 33 of them. The nation's No. 1 scoring offense has punted just five times and has yet to go three-and-out." Tom Dienhart, Rivals.com
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 14, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
commercials what commercials
Thank goodness for DVR.
"You would never guess that a little innocent walk like that could lead to two runs" -- Dusty Baker
by KyCubsFan on Oct 14, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I don't know
I switched to DTV to Get Extra Innings, and I live in Nebraska
Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!
by Ihatethecards on Oct 14, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as one of those cub fans
who has never lived in chicago, i probably wouldn’t get access to a YES-like network should they go that route.
at least i’d get to see the games on MLB or EI, though.
by nathew on Oct 14, 2008 9:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs could push the channel nationally.
I would imagine that it would be free in most cable markets, and available on a sports tier in others.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 14, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way!
I can’t imagine a Cubs’ station, devoted specifically to sports, being carried by cable companies across the U.S. MAYBE sattelite, not cable
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
by calicubfan on Oct 14, 2008 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see it...
… depending on how hard whoever starts it is willing to lobby the major cable companies to carry it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you think YES...
…would be available nationwide then? It just seems like it would be very difficult to broadcast a Chicago sports station in, for example, the Los Angeles TV market. One reason would be, IMO, low ratings; 2nd, the Angels and Dodgers, I’m sure, would take issue with it. 3rd, it would cut down on cable customers purchasing EI.
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
by calicubfan on Oct 14, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Cubs have more fans nationwide than the Yankees do...
… due to WGN’s influence over the years.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Perhaps Zell could sell WGN to the Cubs and let them turn it into their network. IMO, 90% of the programming on WGN is garbage.
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
by calicubfan on Oct 14, 2008 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely.
“Cub TV” would be a regional network, with midwest coverage, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, maybe Western Michigan. It would be on the EI package, just as the YES Network is. No way, no how — would any cable provider outside of the midwest add such a channel to their sports tier.
It just wouldn’t happen. It just wouldn’t.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 16, 2008 3:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
R.I.P Kevin Foster
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Oct 14, 2008 9:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's WGN's fault for me as well
I’ve never lived in Illinois, but in the early 80’s the little Iowa town I was living in had cable, and if I left work early each weekday, I could catch the end of most Cub games. i was hooked.
Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!
by Ihatethecards on Oct 14, 2008 9:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've lived in the Chicago area my entire life and have never lived in a house without cable
so the idea of not getting to watch the Cubs when they are on is fairly foreign to me. When I was at WIU I wouldnt get games that were being shown in the chicago area on CLTV or WCIU but that was only a couple games a year.
You would definitely get a lot of cash by having the Cubs only network but it seems like it would make smart business sense to keep as many games on WGN for a national broadcast as possible to keep the fans around the country happy and to introduce the Cubs to new fans near and far.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Oct 14, 2008 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I imagine SOME of the games would remain on WGN.
The rest would be on EI — there are plenty of Yankee games on the YES network that are on EI.
You’d have to pay, but you’d still get to watch all the games.
I don’t know what the story is regarding national distribution of the YES network. Anyone know?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even via satellite?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our DirecTv in Missouri has the YES network on it
We get all the programming except the yankees games themselves, which I bet we would actually get if we paid for the MLB package.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 5-1 (1-1). Next up at Texas. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.
by nji232 on Oct 14, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should add that we also get CSN Chicago
Actually all the FSN, CSN, other regional network things came with our package. (Don’t waste your money because you get to watch zero games on these channels, we just have them for now because they were free for a few months)
Its the same story on every one of those channels, the pregame stuff and whatever else is watchable,games themselves and even replays of games get blacked out.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 5-1 (1-1). Next up at Texas. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.
by nji232 on Oct 14, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've contemplated cancelling my comcast subscription...
…and getting OTA digital cable only – the one thing stopping me is the Cubs and the Comcast monopoly. I hate Comcast with a passion – and it goes very deep.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Oct 14, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We knew going in the games themselves wouldn't just show up for free
It does make one wonder why someone would actually pay extra money each month for those channels.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 5-1 (1-1). Next up at Texas. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.
by nji232 on Oct 14, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I really dont want a network cubs channel
If the YES network blackouts the Yanks nationally, more than likely so will the Cubs network, So if I want to watch the cubs on TV more than the 10 times they are on FOX/ESPN, I will have to spend more money getting Sat TV so I can spend more money getting Extra Innings. How many times do I have to pay to watch/listen to the same game? This year alone, I paid for cable TV, MLB on line radio, 1/2 of the year for MLB.tv, and XM radio.
by JPetey on Oct 14, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am in favor of a Cub only station
Only because I spend most of the baseball season in Chicago. If I weren’t in chicago for most of the season, I wouldn’t be in favor of it.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 5-1 (1-1). Next up at Texas. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.
by nji232 on Oct 14, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way to get out of market games
Is to get the EI package or MLBTV. If the Cubs had their own network you may be able to get the station if is was carried by your local cable/sat. However, it would go blackout once the game started. MLB wouldnt sign a contract saying that a Cubs network could broadcast games nationally. Then every Cubs fan wouldn’t need EI.
I hear ya having to pay multiple times to get my Cubs games, cable tv, EI package and MLB.tv (So, I could watch at work). Oh well. If I didn’t care I just wouldn’t pay.
A combination of Andre Dawson and WGN are why I am a Cub fan. All the way from Portland, OR.
by jajonez77 on Oct 14, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, perhaps
Sunday afternoon games might still be carried by WGN in a scenario like this…
"There is not a better offense in America. Missouri has had 48 possessions and scored on 33 of them. The nation's No. 1 scoring offense has punted just five times and has yet to go three-and-out." Tom Dienhart, Rivals.com
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 14, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo!
WGN is pretty much the sole reason Im a Cubs fan here in NY…..for whatever reason, Ryne Sandberg and Mark Grace were two of my favorites as a little leaguer, probably b/c I played second and had a hand me down first baseman glove, so were I not able to watch them on a regular basis, I probably wouldve been a Mets fan (gasp!)….so thank you WGN.
WGN also introduced me to the concept of time zones…ha.
CUBSTV would be awesome though.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Oct 14, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
World Wide
I lived in an international dorm when I was in college. One day while watching a game on WGN a new student from Kenya sat down next to me to watch the game. I started explaining baseball and he just looked at me and said I’m a huge Cubs fan. His family could get WGN off of a satellite. I think it was for a military network for overseas soldiers. Anyway, he actually decided to go to college in Illinois so he could go to Cubs games. That was the fall of 1984.
by goddess on Oct 14, 2008 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The only potential problem with a CubsNetwork
would be how to sell it to cable providers.
I remember reading that Mets and Yankees fans are essentially paying an additional $10-20 per month solely for their team’s netowrk.
Then there’s the problem of getting it on the air- think of all the near blackmail the BigTenNetwork had to do to get on everyone’s cable.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on Oct 14, 2008 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One difference with the BTN
Big Ten Network is dividing their revenues 11 ways, and is charging cablecos quite a bit, largely for 12 football saturdays, the occasional basketball game, and a bunch of programming no one wants.
CUB would be airing 162 baseball games (minus the occasional ESPN game), plus, potentially, Bulls and Hawks games. That’s a lot more content.
And they could probably charge a whole heck of a lot less per customer than the BTN.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 14, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
the Big Ten advertises that you will get more than football and basketball. You get soccer, volleyball, baseball, etc. Most is not worth watching but it does fill up their programming.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Oct 14, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kinda getting into
the Women’s volley ball………….nothing like the olympics beach ball, but still, if you have nothing better to do…..
Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!
by Ihatethecards on Oct 14, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Women's or men's?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 14, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WGN Fan
I’m another fan of the Cubs from my days of watching WGN. Over the past several years (2004) I have supplemented my condition by watching the Cubs on mlb.tv, most likely go with EI next year.
I think that the addition of a Cubs Network, WBCB would be a great addition even though I’m not sure if I would be able to receive it in South Georgia. Unfortunately I don’t have the option of getting dish/satelite without fighting the HOA for approval. (this means no Bears either :(.
"You would never guess that a little innocent walk like that could lead to two runs" -- Dusty Baker
by KyCubsFan on Oct 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about an all Cubs radio network as well?
The Cardinals actually own part of the radio station that they’re on, why not the Cubs?
Old Style is the nectar of life.
by Mordecai on Oct 14, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably not feasible now with MLB Audio in existence.
What would be the point?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minor League broadcasts, too
In addition to airing the current game and rebroadcasting historic games from years gone by, The Cubs Network should take a page from MASN and broadcast the occasional Cubs minor league game. These games wouldn’t garner large ratings, but they would educate the Cubs fan about the stars of tomorrow. And on day game days at Wrigley, the prime time slot is open, perfect for Iowa, Tennessee, Daytona, or Peoria.
by allyngibson on Oct 14, 2008 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I loved what the Astros did with Ryan-Sanders baseball this past season in putting about five games each of the AA Corpus Christi Hooks and AAA Round Rock Express on FSN Southwest. They might even have a game between the Iowa Cubs and Express on next season.
I would love to see some minor league games on a proposed Cubs network. I know the games wouldn’t get good ratings, but they would get better ratings than people think.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 14, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blackouts....
Can someone explain to me in simplistic terms the reason for the territorial blackouts. After all these years, I still never really understand why someone 100 miles away from a game can’t watch it on TV.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on Oct 14, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
For a little light reading, Al attempted it
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on Oct 14, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand by what I said in that post.
They’re stupid and need to be eliminated. Yesterday.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was not commenting on your opinion, which I share,
rather the complexity of explaining the process for santo10 who wanted it in simplistic terms.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood.
I was just saying my position is still the same.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 15, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DIRECTTV MLB PACKAGE
Direct TV MLB has virtually EVERY game, with the exception of Saturday blackouts. I live in CT, and watched 150 plus Cub games. Surely any Cubs network would be a part of that, just as I am sure the YES network is viewable via the DTV package outside of the NYC area.
The package, by the way, is awesome (and no, I have no affiliation with DTV). You can watch 8 games at once on a single screen, or scroll to any of the 15 possible games going on (likely 30 choices on most nights, as you get both the home and away broadcasters.) And 90% in HD to boot.
Much as the Dodgers have left us unhappy, I must say listening to Vin Scully is interesting…it is just him, and no color man…he just gabs and gabs.
by cubfanjim on Oct 14, 2008 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cubs TV
Hey, I would love a Cubs channel. Could be interesting…
by TheHawkRules on Oct 14, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Creating a Cubs-only television station
seems like a no-brainer if Mark Cuban is the owner. He knows technology, how to work and manage it, and probably has the resources to do so (see: broadcast.com). I think this is a huge advantage Cuban has over the other possible owners – resources to bring this team into the 21st century. The rest of the guys? Money, but maybe not as much long-term goals or insight.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Oct 14, 2008 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Could this work against
Cuban with the other owners in MLB? Would they look favorably upon a big market team going it alone on their own channel? Just curious, not sure what they think of the YES network.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Oct 14, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling most owners would do it if they could
Owners will always look to make a dollar, and owning one’s own cable station is a quick way to profits.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Oct 14, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. With revenue sharing, small market teams get paid from the money YES makes.
The same would probably happen with a Cubs TV network.
by Fraggin Judge on Oct 14, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so sure of that
YES revenue’s get distributed to the MLB revenue-sharing kitty? Don’t think so. The YES network and to a lesser extent NESN for the BoSox are the reasons why those teams are well above the norm in payroll.
If Cuban wins (though I heard via the rumor mill that its Ricketts and it’ll be announced after the WS) you can bet he would leverage WGN to its max. Regardless, any owner that has the coin to drop, should make the decision to have an All-Cubs network.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Oct 15, 2008 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Complicated Rules...
…I am in favor of a Cubs network in principle. But it seems there are some very complicated rules in play here that no one here probably has a full grasp on. For some reason, WGN can broadcast Cubs games nationally in the same manner that ESPN, FOX and TBS do. However, YES, and the FSN regionals cannot. You can get those stations through various means but the games themselves are blacked out (presumably by MLB). It makes sense too, if they didn’t black them out, no one would pay for EI. My assumption is that a Cubs network would be playing by the same rules as a YES network. I’m guessing giving 70 games a year to WGN would hurt the profitability of a Cubs network.
As the rules stand right now, it seems a Cubs network might post some short term gains, but may ultimately lead to a shrinking fan base. WGN is a stark advantage enjoyed by no other teams in MLB. I’m not sure how one can quantify the dollar value of this approach versus an in-house network but, I would be very careful before I put that advantage at risk.
"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard
by TXCub on Oct 14, 2008 12:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That first sentence...
…comes across as insulting. I didn’t mean it that way. I’m pointing out that there are some legal reasons that are beyond me that have created a situation that is advantageous to the Cubs.
"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard
by TXCub on Oct 14, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remeber, the proposed network would be regional, just like Yes.
Fans outside of the network’s region cannot watch the games there; they have to subscribe to EI. The only legal issue I see is how much would it cost to buy Comcast’s and WGN’s share of games under the current TV contract.
by Fraggin Judge on Oct 14, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too
grew up a Cubs fan in Oak Park because of WGN broadcasting all of their games back in the 60s. If I hurried home from elementary school the last three innings would still be on.
I went to a fair number of games as a kid, but television and radio were my real connection. God, how I miss Jack, Vince, and Lou. I can close my eyes and still hear them today.
by leothelip on Oct 14, 2008 1:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know exactly what you mean
even with Harry it didn’t seem like the “real” Cubs.
I can close my eyes and go back to 1960something and hear Vince say those words Al quoted above after them playing “Hey Hey Holy Mackerel” and it’s a ###### time machine. I loved that voice. It was like maple syrup. The only other broadcaster in that category for me is Vin; I listen to Dodgers games on XM radio just to hear him. Is he the only one left from those days still broadcasting? I think so.
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on Oct 14, 2008 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
… Scully is the only one left from that generation. Since he started so young — age 21 — he’s still going strong after 59 years, at age 80. He’s at least ten years younger than most of the now-deceased greats of the ’50s and ’60s (Harry Caray, Jack Brickhouse, Jack Buck, Ernie Harwell, Vince Lloyd).
The only other broadcaster who’s been around a significant amount of time who has that sort of respect these days is Bob Uecker, who’s been at it for almost 40 years.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought of Uecker
when I wrote that but I had no idea he had been broadcasting that long. I did listen to his XM feed for all the Milw playoff games. He is pretty even-keeled in the same way as Vin. Sort of the anti-Brennamen; never says anything negative about the other team.
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on Oct 14, 2008 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uecker is a native of Milwaukee...
… who returned there after his playing days to broadcast. If I’m not mistaken, he has been there since the franchise started in 1970.
Pat Hughes, of course, was one of his co-broadcasters for several years in the early 90’s.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Uecker only do radio?
I don’t think I ever heard him announce a Brewers game on EI this season — and Lord knows I watched a fair share of Brewers games.
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
by calicubfan on Oct 14, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Uecker only does radio.
In fact, I don’t think he has ever done Brewers TV. (Correct me if I’m wrong)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh I've grown up on Len and Bob
2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..
by Chanman25 on Oct 14, 2008 5:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
better than growing up on Chip Caray
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 5-1 (1-1). Next up at Texas. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.
by nji232 on Oct 14, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Len and Bob...
… I think they could be around for many years and be the voices of this generation.
But, I fail to see the enmity toward Chip Caray. He’s not the best I’ve ever heard, but he’s far from the worst. I could have lived with him here had they decided to keep him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 14, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
atleast it isn't Joe Buck
oh my god..
2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..
by Chanman25 on Oct 14, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe certainly isn't Jack
but he’s not as bad as some of the “national” announcers we are subject to in post-season. Len and Bob are OK. I was OK with Chip and Steve but I didn’t get to watch many games during that period so I have a very small sample size with them.
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on Oct 14, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chip
What bothered me about Chip was that every play was the most amazing thing ever. Every ball hit to the warning track was belted… every fly ball was a tall majestic arcing shot… every line drive corralled by the third baseman was a bullet liner…. Even in the first inning of the first game of the season Chip was on the edge of his seat like the upcoming play was going to decide the fate of the season.
One of the things that I like about Len Kasper, which I have heard him acknowledge, is that he gauges the importance of the play and the game. He isn’t amped up doing the play-by-play in the early innings of a game. But have that same play happen late in a key game and he does have the enthusiasm. I guess I just wish Chip didn’t feel the need to jump out of his shoes every time the right fielder has to field a ball.
That and his incessant ramblings about cotton candy…
by dmlichte on Oct 14, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will add...
… that by all accounts Chip is a real gentleman. Every word that’s been uttered about him is that he’s a great person and treats those around him very well. I would have been find had he stayed around but I’m far happier with Kasper.
by dmlichte on Oct 14, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Chip was always competing with a ghost for a while there to create his own identity.
That would be difficult. Kasper seems calm, knowledgeable obviously enjoys what he does regardless of the outcome. The guys need to be like our priests; when thing go bad they need to be confident and remind us that tomorrow is another day and not leave you feeling like someone pissed in your wheaties after a loss. LC/BB do a pretty good job of that. Vince and Lou and Jack did a great job of that. Harry did a so-so job of it. Ron doesn’t do it at all, bless his heart.
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on Oct 14, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Chip Caray.
What others criticize keep me awake and interested in the game, no matter the score. I also like Len Kasper a lot.
There’s no denying that Chip Caray is better than Joe Buck, IMO, because of the enthusiasm and the love of the game he shows in every broadcast. If Fox had any sense of what’s good in baseball, they should retire Buck from baseball and devote him exclusively to football.
by Fraggin Judge on Oct 14, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad someone else appreciated Chip;
I was always energized by the fact that it was obvious that was all he wanted to be doing in the whole world. I think there are three categories of announcers: 1. professional announcers (who might have gotten some early help by the being the son of another well known broadcaster, 2. ex-players who have convinced someone they can translate their player/manager experience to insightful commentary (these are the worst a la Kevin Kennedy, Joe Morgan, Hawk Harrelson, Steve Stone who has overdrawn at the bank of being the smartest baseball mind in the booth, and a third group 3. that consists of Ron Santo, Bob Uecker and a few others who played, and who deep down wish they were still playing. They are sometimes emotionally raw and too homie, less so with Bob, but they are more like what announcers would have been in the 40-50’s. Brennamen fits in here somehow as the most overrated baseball broadcaster ever. Ron wants to get down on the field and grab the shoulder of someone who shall remain nameless for swinging at three straight 55’ sliders in the left handed batters’ box.
We really need our intermediaries in this art form to be people we can relate to personally but who we also can look to as a source of insight, truth, maybe a little inside information into the workings of the team and someone we trust as people., not as “entertainment personalities”.
I apologize for the ramble but all this thought on this topic is making me realize I was never going to have the whole Cubs experienced more appropriately wired and balanced than the days when all I could do was to listen to WGN radio and wait for Vince Lloyd and Lou Boudreau to join me in my basement room with the black lights and playboy pinups on the wall and Jimmie Hendrix posters on the ceiling and just listen to those guys through the black night and imagine the day when I could replace Kessinger at SS. Rich memories from the tiniest reference to those days.
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on Oct 15, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always liked Chip...
… I never found him to be that “every play is like it’s in the 7th game of the WS” as DmL did above.
The guy who had that attitude, I felt, was Thom Brennaman. Every play, no matter how trivial, was incredible, and his sense of baseball history seemed to go back no farther than the 1980’s.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 15, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I felt the same way that DmL did.
A lone example that typified him for me — Sosa popped out to end a close game against the Cardinals in 1998 – to McGwire.
Chip nearly fell out of the booth screaming, “HOW APPROPRIATE IS THIS!?!?!?” Well, Chip, it was one game, it wasn’t a great play and it didn’t decide a pennant race. It came off as contrived — like a lot of Chip’s calls do to me. I’ve noticed that in what little of the LCS I’ve watched, too.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're on a roll, Al.
You’ve ben on the money two days in a row. I totally agree with your suggestions on how to renovate Wrigley Field (including the Jumbotron, and especially the clubhouse for Cubs players) and the proposed Cubs TV network.
by Fraggin Judge on Oct 14, 2008 11:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
WGN
Is the reason so many of us outside of chicago are cub fans . They carried the only day baseball back in the early 80’s when cable TV had started . But it seems less and less each year the amount of games they cover . Cubs Nation is alive and well because of WGN ….Cubs fans have it made compared to some of the broadcast crews other teams have ….
by cubs north on Oct 14, 2008 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I also think from WGN’s standpoint they would almost have to keep Cub games because I think that’s the only reason most cable companies carry it.
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Oct 15, 2008 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why
WGN’s cable service has been rebranded WGN America. Tribco wants that net to become a TBS, TNT, A&E, USA — cable nets with real, measurable ratings. Even with Cubs games, WGN Superstation/America — never moved the rating needle AT ALL. Zip. Zero. Not enough to measure.
(It’s strength was mainly in the midwest.)
The rebranding, reprogramming — original programming — it’s all part of a long-term strategy to shake the dust off WGN’s national service, which had the Cubs/Sox — and nothing else.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 16, 2008 3:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the two most successful financial baseball teams are
the Stankees with Yes and the Red Sux with NESN, so it would make sense for Zell to add WGN into the mix for the sale of the Cubs.
Zell should wake up and sell this most attractive media/sports package of Cubs product to the potential buyers.
"When you are in a hole, stop digging." - anon.
by LAcarl519 on Oct 15, 2008 12:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
when you say most successfull are you limiting the parameter to top line revenue or net profit for the owner
or some perfomance based metric like WS or Div wins? or some sabre combination? Sincere honest not sarcastic question.
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on Oct 15, 2008 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yankee Ticket Prices '09
Behind the plate $500 each? Down the lines – $325? They are crazy in New York! For a baseball game?
by rmonday557 on Oct 15, 2008 2:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The org mtngs are on the 19th
or at least due to start on the 19th in AZ. Are we to expect to hear anything out of that? I don’t imagine Bruce Levine is going to be out there covering this will he?
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Oct 15, 2008 6:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, probably not...
… because those meetings are private and no one from management says much when they’re over.
But we may get a sense of where the team is going from any minor transactions that happen after the meetings are over. No major transactions are going to happen till the World Series is over.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 15, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the best thing marketing wise that happened for the Cubs
when they went national is the same thing some folks talk about being a downside for the players: Daytime only baseball.
The Cubs had no [sports] competition weekdays for years. Everyone knew that without lights, the Cubs at home meant day baseball. Add in the charm of the ballpark that was starting to turn around, Harry Caray with Arne Harris and the crew plus Ryno and there you go. The best marketing tool in MLB at the time.
Every year out of town relatives and friends (especially those from overseas) that plan their vacation time in the summer to be in Chicago want to do several things. One of those is to go to the Cubs game. Every January an Aunt and Uncle that come in from California, schedule their time here so I can get them Cubs tickets. They never lived in Illinois, let alone Chicago but come hell or high water, every year they make it to the Shedd, mag mile and Wrigley.
WGN did that. Too bad other MLB owners of that era had the same thoughts as the old tight-wad Arthur Wirtz (then his son Bill).
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Oct 15, 2008 7:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Which is also why...
…. ownership has realized that having a larger number of weekday afternoon games than most other teams, though it loses them money in TV ad revenue, is great for marketing purposes.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 15, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs Channel
A Cubs Network would end any chance I have of ever seeing a Cub game. I live in Northern Wisconsin and I’m sure our cable provider would never offer this network. As it is now, I only see about 3 games a week (WGN, ESPN, FS North when they play the Brewers). I grew up a Cub fan in Illinois, went to many games as a kid and my heart is as broken when they lose as anyone else. Please, no Cub Network!
by Jasely on Oct 15, 2008 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet you could get any such network.
You might have to switch to a satellite provider, but I cannot imagine the Cubs offering such a network unless it were available nationally.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 15, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please see my earlier post.
Any ‘Cub Network’ would be featured on “Extra Innings” just as any Comcast Chicago Cubs cablecast is now. As stated already, the difference is that the Cubs would profit from advertising, not the cable rights holder — Comcast.
If you watch games on EI now, you’d never tell the difference between Comcast and the so-called Cubs TV. But, I’d guess WGN America games would be few and far between. That’s probably inevitable.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 16, 2008 4:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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