2008 Postseason Interlude: Wake Me Up When October Ends
by Al
on Oct 15, 2008 8:22 AM CDT
in The Next 100 Years
Before I post my thoughts on where the Cubs should go with player and coaching changes for 2009, I wanted to say this about the 2008 post-Cubs postseason.
Is this boring or what? Apart from fans of the Phillies and Rays, who have to be excited about their teams being one win away from the World Series, this postseason has, for the rest of us, been dull and one-sided. There have only been a couple of games -- the Phillies' come-from-behind win in NLCS game 3 and the hugely entertaining, home run bombing, extra-inning Rays' 9-8 win in ALCS game 2 -- that have been either close or had compelling story lines.
Nevertheless, the Phillies and Rays -- who are both good, but flawed teams -- stand one victory away from getting to the Promised Land that we as Cubs fans have always had to watch on television. And so I pose the question to all of you this morning: how are they doing it? They are not the most talented teams in this postseason; they are not the teams that won the most games in the regular season in their respective leagues; in the case of the Rays, many of us have scratched our heads even while giving them respect for their achievements in 2008 and asked, "How are they DOING this?"
So I'm asking you: "How DO they do that?" What is it about the Phillies and Rays -- and at this point, I'm picking the Rays to win the whole thing -- that has gotten them to this point? What do they have that we don't? And what is it that the Cubs could go out and get to bring them from a 97-win regular season team, to a team that can win 11 games in October? BCB reader Weeghman Park suggested in this comment made in last night's ALCS game thread something that I've often thought of -- we need that one player, that one leader, to get us over the hump; the guy who'll say, "Screw everyone else, we're in this to win it for US".
But who is that player (or is it more than one)? And how do the Cubs get him and fit him in with the others who will take the field in 2009?
Have at it.
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But who is that guy?
And you’re saying ONE guy would have made the difference this year? Why?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Oct 15, 2008 8:30 AM CDT
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Manny
If you can put up with him and his antics he is THE BEST PLAYER ON THE PLANET.
I don’t know how you get him, I doubt he even is on the Cubs radar. But if you can convince him or Sori to play right field, sure you would be sacrificing A LOT OF Defense but damn if you don’t win 105 games with the same team plus Manny.
Pipedream and I hate the guy but I feel like I would love him if he were hitting .330/35/125 for the cubs
by niuhuskie224 on Oct 15, 2008 8:35 AM CDT 0 recs
Best player on the planet
Maybe if you’d said “Best hitter on the planet” I could see where you’re coming from, but in the NL players have to play on both sides of the ball. Manny is such a liability defensively that it’s hard to look at him over, say, Albert Pujols or Hanley Ramirez and say he’s their better.
And besides, which Manny are you getting? The one who’s loafed around in Boston for the last few years or the one who’s playing out of his mind now that he wants to earn a contract?
by Wreckard on
Oct 15, 2008 10:08 AM CDT
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Right
Plus, the one who is likely entering the waning years of his career – and will want 4 or 5 years on his contract.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 10:25 AM CDT
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I'm not saying the risk isn't there
I know what he would demand but for one year he would be awesome. And I will give you Pujols but Hanley is brutal defensively.
by niuhuskie224 on
Oct 15, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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I think it's possible
But I’m not sure it’s a guarantee. Someone at the stage in his career that Manny is at is better suited to be an in-season acquistion — lower risk. I do realize that it’s not guaranteed that someone like that would be available, though.
Still, with all the backloaded contracts and NTC’s; I’d be real reluctant to take on another potential albatross of a contract, unless I was convinced that it was the missing piece (again, I realize no guarantees – but if it looked like it filled a glaring need, ok).
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 1:30 PM CDT
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calling you out
on that nonsense.
Look at his stats.
Loafed around boston? Good god.
by tal1286 on
Oct 15, 2008 2:14 PM CDT
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Are you saying effort hasn't been a major issue for him?
Faking injuries so he wouldn’t have to play against tough pitchers? Not hustling? Playing atrocious, atrocious defense?
He’s still a fabulously good hitter, don’t get me wrong. Manny loafing around is still one of the better hitters in the league. But expecting him to put up an EQA of .400 (like he has in LA this year) for you next year is a little unrealistic.
by Wreckard on
Oct 15, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
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the problem
With this is that, as you state it, Manny gets us to 100+ wins during the regular season. But does he get us any closer to winning postseason games? I’m not convinced. Run scoring ability wasn’t our problem (see regular season results), it was the ability to score those runs in high-pressure postseason games…
by 26.2cubsfan on
Oct 15, 2008 12:17 PM CDT
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Have you seen what Manny's done this postseason?
Small sample size caveats apply, but:
against the Cubs: .500 / .643 / 1.100 for an OPS of 1.743
against the Dodgers: .500 / .667 / .917 for an OPS of 1.584
He is like 7 for 8 with RISP.
Seems like he has the ability to score runs in high-pressure postseason games.
by John Q Freejazz on
Oct 15, 2008 12:42 PM CDT
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And I do agree that he's likely to be able to repeat that
Still….an OF with Manny and Soriano. Does the offense indeed make up for the runs allowed? I’m not sure. Probably, but I think that Manny’s not the missing piece.
I’m not saying that he’d hurt, though — no disputing the numbers you quoted.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 1:31 PM CDT
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more than one
A major left-handed hitter, and a gold glove “take charge” shortstop.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
by KedzieKid on Oct 15, 2008 8:38 AM CDT 0 recs
The Phillies have 2.5 MVPS in their lineup
Howard and Rollins of course, and Utley was on track until he got hurt last year (or was it the year before) and Rollins is a switch hitter and the other two are lefties…..so they got us beat there.
The Rays were the second best AL team all year, I dont know that their lineup is any better than the Cubs, maybe it was the Mohawks? Certainly Upton and Longoria are on there way to being mega-stars, and I have no doubt Longoria will be a better player than A. Ramirez sooner than later.
I dont know who the Rays intangibles/leader guy is, maybe Percival, I think for the Phillies Rollins is their heart and soul, he laid it out last year that they were gonna beat the Mets.
For all the questions of who the Cubs leader is, the guy who unites them is an “us against them” mentality, well I dont know if he exists. Dempster seems to be well liked and jovial, Lee is kind of laid back, Zambrano is too emotional to be counted on as a leader…..but this is kind of odd, b/c all those intangibles and fire in the belly characteristics are exactly why I hoped Girardi wouldve beaten out Lou for the job.
The philles just have a more balanced lineup, and the Rays are just an up and coming team hitting on all cylinders at the right moment.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Oct 15, 2008 8:40 AM CDT 0 recs
Balanced?
I saw a summary a few weeks ago that said the Phillies line-up has too many right-handed hitters and wouldn’t make it in a short series. Perhaps that author meant the Cubs. But, that same author said the Cubs were beyond question the best team in the NL and would go to the series.
I think we are back to intangibles…and back to some luck, which apparently the Cubs used 97 times this season, but the well ran dry when it counted.
Luck, and a bit more heart — and the ability to “throw out 100 years.” It does seem to matter. It shouldn’t, but there no other way to explain Game of this year’s Divisional Series.
Philadelphia, over all may have a trophy case even smaller than Chicago, but the Phillies have been in a World Series less than 20 years ago. The Tampa Bay market is primed to win their third major championship (in three sports) in less than 15 years.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on
Oct 15, 2008 11:49 AM CDT
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Balanced- a bit more
In terms of handedness- Rollins and Victorino are switch hitters and Howard and Utley are lefties, and Burrell is a righty….so in that respect, Id say theyre more balanced.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on
Oct 15, 2008 11:55 AM CDT
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How about...
scoring twice as many runs in one game as the Cubs did the entire series?
Baseball is a very simple game. You look up after nine innings and if your number is bigger than the other team’s, you win!
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Oct 15, 2008 8:42 AM CDT 0 recs
they dont care
The players on those teams aren’t concerned about the years of failure. They are simply going out and having fun.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Oct 15, 2008 8:44 AM CDT 0 recs
Exactly.
The question is: how do the Cubs get guys who can and will do that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM CDT
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thats a good question
as a fan I want guys who understand and appreciate what all that is Cubdom but at the same time you can’t overthink it.
Honestly I don’t know the answer. If I did I’d call up the Trib and ask for an audience with Jim Hendry.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on
Oct 15, 2008 9:08 AM CDT
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I thought we had some in...
Dempster, DeRosa, Zambrano, Lee, Edmonds….
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on
Oct 15, 2008 9:47 AM CDT
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Yeah, I thought we did too...
… particularly Dempster. When Dempster, the clubhouse cutup and guy keeping everyone loose all year, failed in game one, I think that tightened everyone else up.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Oct 15, 2008 10:54 AM CDT
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I don't know that it is only on the players...
…as I have said before, I am not sure our management did and said the right things to mentally prepare our guys for the postseason.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on
Oct 15, 2008 12:49 PM CDT
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Difference
between loose, confident, prepared and a term I’ll borrow, which is swagger. Loose=no worries about what is about to occur. Confident=the feeling of being prepared. Swagger=if you look at me wrong I’ll hit you so hard your children will have concussions. Lou wants swagger and we don’t have it, or enough of it. Manny has swagger. You just know he is going to get hits. Soriano is so scary if he ever got it he could provide enough swagger for our entire team, but he is hopeless. DLee has shown it when he charged a pitcher a few years ago but the rest of the time is just a great guy.
My 3 point plan. 1. Get pitchers that throw inside and start riots. 2. Get into some old fashioned bench clearing brawls once in a while in support of your pitchers. 3a. Back up your pitchers with some bashing of the baseball. 3b. Have a guy on your team that truly enjoys being in the middle and who enjoys even more how to show up the other team by always getting the big blow.
Finding that person, good luck.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on
Oct 15, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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for #3 how about that white haired catcher on the White Sox?
Can’t say his name in connection with a Cubs blog but he’s the ticket
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on
Oct 15, 2008 3:30 PM CDT
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horrible idea- just horrible
Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....
by Andre Fonseca on
Oct 15, 2008 3:41 PM CDT
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Come on, you know I was kidding
I don’t know how to use that sarcasm sign thing
Tommie Agee was out.
by Weeghman Park on
Oct 15, 2008 3:48 PM CDT
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Bingo....
could they use a better defender at shortstop? Sure…any number other tweaks could be made as well, but the 2008 Cub roster was good enough collectively to win it all. Look at the cumulative team offensive and defensive stats—they had plenty.
“half this game is 90% mental” Sir Lawrence Berra
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon
by cubfever7 on
Oct 15, 2008 9:05 AM CDT
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Well...
They could use a better defender, but is defense the only way to upgrade the position?
Hanley Ramirez is not a great defender and may or may not be a defensive upgrade (both sides can be argued, fielding pct. versus range, etc.). However, Ramirez hits for power and is a much better stolen base threat.
I mention Ramirez on purpose as he is getting closer to big money and the Marlins are traditionally alergic to big money.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on
Oct 15, 2008 9:25 AM CDT
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Enough about SS
Theriot did not make the Cubs go into a post-season funk, nor did he cause Dempster to implode. Upgrading at SS would not make a significant difference in the question that Al has asked.
In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband
by Ross on
Oct 15, 2008 11:12 AM CDT
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If you can't talk about upgrading a position in the offseason,
when can it be discussed?
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on
Oct 15, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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Exactly
Especially when you’re trying to improve upon a good team, and upgrading SS would be one clear improvement.
To whit, Theriot and Fukudome were the only Cub regular starters with an OPS+ of less than 100 (Theriot had 95, Fukudome had 92), and by the end of the season Fukudome wasn’t even a regular starter.
by John Q Freejazz on
Oct 15, 2008 12:45 PM CDT
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I don't get that you can't mention upgrading SS around here without
being labeled a Riot basher. Ryan Theriot is a valuable piece to the team and should be back and contribute unless he is part of a larger deal.
I would like to see SS as the major area to upgrade and the target should be a SS with an elite ceiling. Either an established superstar or a ’ute on the cusp.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on
Oct 15, 2008 1:07 PM CDT
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Agree...
…now is not the time to fall in love with players, it is the time for Hendry to fall in love with improving the team.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Oct 15, 2008 12:47 PM CDT
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talk about all you want
but come up with a solution. who’s available? anything past furcal isnt much better thanwe already have.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on
Oct 15, 2008 1:05 PM CDT
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Well, that depends
Do you meen FA, or trades? There are a lot of better shortstops out there. I doubt Hardy would get traded within the NL Central, but can anyone honestly say they’d rather have Theriot than Hardy?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 1:34 PM CDT
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yeah me
theriot was better than hardy last year. just a crazy thought but you think the rangers would do a deal involving michael young and rich harden? they have a youngsetr ready to take over and FA pitchers dont seem to wanna go there. they need a starter bad and harden would be cheap.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on
Oct 15, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
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Oh, I disagree on Theriot being better
Higher OBP, yes. Lower SLG and OPS — by a lot. Plus, Hardy is a shortstop – not a second baseman playing short.
Would the Rangers make that trade? They’d be stupid not to. Young is essentially Hardy with less power.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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harden
is a big gamble. keep him and hope he is great or trade him for a good bounty. post theriot and hardy’s numbers if you can. hardy was horrible the 1st half.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on
Oct 15, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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Quite frankly...
The Phillies are doing it, because we aren’t (or couldn’t). I’ll admit, I haven’t watched any of the NLCS, but we could easily be the ones up 3-1 on Philly if we played like the regular season version of the Cubs.
The Rays are an interesting story and I wouldn’t mind seeing them win it all. They have a bunch of young guys that look like they’re having fun and are on a tear.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM CDT 0 recs
I honestly think
that the Cubs don’t need that one guy to make a difference. They really didn’t need one all summer. The Rays and Phils are playing loose and pounding the baseball. We pounded the baseball all summer but we did have streaks where we looked like Little Leaguers out there. Unfortunately, the LL Cubs showed up for the playoffs.
The BoSox/Dodgers pitchers are being crushed, simple as that. Both teams got some big hits early in the series and it relaxed them. The Cubs got a 2 run dinger from DeRo but that got trumped by the Loney slam and they never recovered. I have said it multiple times, they recovered all year, why didn’t they in the post season? You have to ask them. Lou didn’t help matters, either. Maybe Lou needs to be the guy to rattle their cages and get them to loosen up.
I have also said this before, they players say the 100 year thing has no effect. Maybe in their hearts, it does. They have to say it doesn’t affect them in public, they’re pros. Bu they are still human. And watching post season futility either from the Cubs dugout or from the other side, you tend to think it’s bigger than they let on.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM CDT 0 recs
I thought they had those guys in Demp & Derosa.
I’ve said it before, they have to get off to a hot start in the NLDS and probably every series. Otherwise the fans, media, and probably players are going to think, “here we go again”. Or have an a team like in ‘03 that doesn’t have much expectations.
Sidenote, I was impressed at 11:10 eastern time with the Red Sox down big, there were not many empty seats at Fenway.
James Loney, seriously?
by slocs55 on Oct 15, 2008 8:47 AM CDT 0 recs
I did too and I thnk the team did as well and ironically those are the two players..
..who had the two biggest gaffes which derailed the whole thing…
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on
Oct 15, 2008 9:32 AM CDT
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they are doing it because
They’re coming to the park ready to play and when on the field, they execute accordingly.
The Cubs easily could have done the same. They had the talent.
They did not come to the park ready to play. They became head cases and melted down.
Next question …
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on Oct 15, 2008 8:49 AM CDT 0 recs
I think we all know this is the reason.
My question is, how do you accomplish the goal of being “ready to play”? How do you avoid becoming “head cases”?
If you can answer that question, you’ll help build the Cubs championship team.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Oct 15, 2008 9:07 AM CDT
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Honestly
I think it has nothing to do with actual play. There’s all the pressure from the fans and the press. They play tight because they don’t want to be the guy who screws it up. EVERY infielder had an error in game 2!!! That’s not a matter of not having “the guy”, that’s a matter of letting the pressure get to them.
All one of them has to do is turn the corner. Maybe next year is that year. I’ve been on record as saying that I wouldn’t change a single thing about this team at this point. I continue to believe that.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on
Oct 15, 2008 9:22 AM CDT
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you really think
dome is a good choice for next year?
Edmonds?
by tal1286 on
Oct 15, 2008 2:20 PM CDT
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I think Dome figures it out
over the winter break, and hits a good .268 next year — evenly, throughout the year.
Edmonds is replaced by Pie.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on
Oct 15, 2008 4:34 PM CDT
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I hope you're right about Pie
But I’ll make you a side bet for Project 3000. I’ll bet you $5 that Pie is out of the Cubs organization before the end of the 2009 Cubs Convention — and I hope I’m wrong.
You in?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 4:42 PM CDT
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(BTW)
.268 isn’t good for a corner outfielder with little power. It’s pretty bad, actually.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 4:48 PM CDT
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I'll take that bet
and I hope I’m wrong… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Oct 15, 2008 9:22 PM CDT
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So you're saying he's still there?
By the way, what happened to Drew?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 16, 2008 8:19 PM CDT
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yep
I’m saying that by the end of the Cubs convention weekend – I’ll even give you until midnight Sunday – Felix Pie will still be in the Cubs organization.
So if he’s still here, I win, and you owe $5 to Derrek Lee’s Project 3000.
If he’s been traded, you win, and I owe $5 to Project 3000.
And no idea what happened to Drew for I am not my drewid’s keeper… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Oct 18, 2008 4:22 PM CDT
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Alrighty, you're on
Interesting. . . . we’re each betting against our own preferences.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 18, 2008 4:43 PM CDT
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actually I like Felix Pie
but I just don’t think he’s gonna get a(nother) good chance to succeed if he stays with the Cubs. Better for him if he gets traded and starts anew somewhere else.
Obviously I like the Cubs too, so if they can get anything that helps them for Pie, they should do it. Because I don’t think they’re going to get much value out of him if they keep him.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Oct 21, 2008 7:23 PM CDT
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And the answer is...
There is no answer. This team could win it all next year. Or not. But could.
"This field, this game...it reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again." ~ Terence Mann
by chr15 on
Oct 15, 2008 9:25 AM CDT
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Then who is the answer?
As much as a lot of people bash Dusty on here — and I am a critic of him — he started the change in culture. Piniella has progressed it even further. Who do you propose is a better candidate than Piniella to take the team to the proverbial next level?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 1:35 PM CDT
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I just think Pinella...
…is old school, and is the type to more aptly camp out in his office and communicate through his staff to the team. I like Lou, but I question whether or not he personally met with the team and did everything he could from a leadership perspective to put the team at ease.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on
Oct 15, 2008 3:44 PM CDT
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massages?
sweet whispering from Lou… I think Lou is a big part of the good things that happened to the Cubbies this year and last. I do not want a young manager coming in and trying to hype up the team. Lou is the man.
Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....
by Andre Fonseca on
Oct 15, 2008 3:47 PM CDT
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While not an unfair assertion, I have to ask again
Who would be better? I don’t disagree that Lou isn’t perfect, but he is what he is.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on
Oct 15, 2008 4:43 PM CDT
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Let me be clear...
…I am not advocating for a change in personnel in the management ranks necessarily, I just am questioning the style of management that was expressed at the start of the postseason. Was it effective in putting the players’ minds at ease and motivating them to play baseball the way they did all year?
I don’t know the answer to that, of course, but I am speculating that Lou and staff didn’t send the right message to the team in the beginning of the playoffs, or after game 1 and 2.
Whomever it was in the broadcast booth last night kept on remarking about whatever Maddon and crew have done to put the Rays at complete ease was an incredible display of leadership and management ability.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on
Oct 15, 2008 5:23 PM CDT
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Pete Rose, Gary Matthews-Type Leader
Mike Schmidt said he was excited to get Pete Rose on the Phillies team in 1979 because the Phillies had lost in the NLCS three seasons in a row from 1976-1978. The Phillies finished a disappointing fourth in 1979. They came back to win the World Series in 1980. Schmidt felt Rose was the leader they needed to get over the hump.
I don’t see a Pete Rose-type leader on this club. The Cubs did have Gary Matthews, Sr. as a veteran leader in 1984. I don’t see Zambrano, D-Lee, A-Ram, or Soriano or anyone else being a “Sarge” on this team.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 15, 2008 8:56 AM CDT 0 recs
Do you mean a player like Jeff Kent or Scott Rolen?
A leader-type guy? Or a jerk?
I think one of the best leader/jerks is this guy:
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Oct 15, 2008 8:58 AM CDT 0 recs
Was Jake Taylor a jerk?
I never got that impression, except when he tailed his ex wife home to her boyfriends house
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on
Oct 15, 2008 11:57 AM CDT
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They weren't actually married before the end of ML 1
But that was a questionable thing. He wasn’t a jerk so much as probably immature in his womanizing days before the time frame of the movie.
I thought that he was a good leader who kept rookies Hayes and Vaughn grounded but wasn’t afraid to get into a vet’s face (Dorn).
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson