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2008 Postseason Interlude: Wake Me Up When October Ends

Before I post my thoughts on where the Cubs should go with player and coaching changes for 2009, I wanted to say this about the 2008 post-Cubs postseason.

Is this boring or what? Apart from fans of the Phillies and Rays, who have to be excited about their teams being one win away from the World Series, this postseason has, for the rest of us, been dull and one-sided. There have only been a couple of games -- the Phillies' come-from-behind win in NLCS game 3 and the hugely entertaining, home run bombing, extra-inning Rays' 9-8 win in ALCS game 2 -- that have been either close or had compelling story lines.

Nevertheless, the Phillies and Rays -- who are both good, but flawed teams -- stand one victory away from getting to the Promised Land that we as Cubs fans have always had to watch on television. And so I pose the question to all of you this morning: how are they doing it? They are not the most talented teams in this postseason; they are not the teams that won the most games in the regular season in their respective leagues; in the case of the Rays, many of us have scratched our heads even while giving them respect for their achievements in 2008 and asked, "How are they DOING this?"

So I'm asking you: "How DO they do that?" What is it about the Phillies and Rays -- and at this point, I'm picking the Rays to win the whole thing -- that has gotten them to this point? What do they have that we don't? And what is it that the Cubs could go out and get to bring them from a 97-win regular season team, to a team that can win 11 games in October? BCB reader Weeghman Park suggested in this comment made in last night's ALCS game thread something that I've often thought of -- we need that one player, that one leader, to get us over the hump; the guy who'll say, "Screw everyone else, we're in this to win it for US".

But who is that player (or is it more than one)? And how do the Cubs get him and fit him in with the others who will take the field in 2009?

Have at it.

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Shortstop

A pro shortstop.

by Jasely on Oct 15, 2008 8:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But who is that guy?

And you’re saying ONE guy would have made the difference this year? Why?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Manny

If you can put up with him and his antics he is THE BEST PLAYER ON THE PLANET.

I don’t know how you get him, I doubt he even is on the Cubs radar. But if you can convince him or Sori to play right field, sure you would be sacrificing A LOT OF Defense but damn if you don’t win 105 games with the same team plus Manny.

Pipedream and I hate the guy but I feel like I would love him if he were hitting .330/35/125 for the cubs

by niuhuskie224 on Oct 15, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Best player on the planet

Maybe if you’d said “Best hitter on the planet” I could see where you’re coming from, but in the NL players have to play on both sides of the ball. Manny is such a liability defensively that it’s hard to look at him over, say, Albert Pujols or Hanley Ramirez and say he’s their better.

And besides, which Manny are you getting? The one who’s loafed around in Boston for the last few years or the one who’s playing out of his mind now that he wants to earn a contract?

by Wreckard on Oct 15, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

Plus, the one who is likely entering the waning years of his career – and will want 4 or 5 years on his contract.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying the risk isn't there

I know what he would demand but for one year he would be awesome. And I will give you Pujols but Hanley is brutal defensively.

by niuhuskie224 on Oct 15, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's possible

But I’m not sure it’s a guarantee. Someone at the stage in his career that Manny is at is better suited to be an in-season acquistion — lower risk. I do realize that it’s not guaranteed that someone like that would be available, though.

Still, with all the backloaded contracts and NTC’s; I’d be real reluctant to take on another potential albatross of a contract, unless I was convinced that it was the missing piece (again, I realize no guarantees – but if it looked like it filled a glaring need, ok).

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

calling you out

on that nonsense.

Look at his stats.

Loafed around boston? Good god.

by tal1286 on Oct 15, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you saying effort hasn't been a major issue for him?

Faking injuries so he wouldn’t have to play against tough pitchers? Not hustling? Playing atrocious, atrocious defense?

He’s still a fabulously good hitter, don’t get me wrong. Manny loafing around is still one of the better hitters in the league. But expecting him to put up an EQA of .400 (like he has in LA this year) for you next year is a little unrealistic.

by Wreckard on Oct 15, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the problem

With this is that, as you state it, Manny gets us to 100+ wins during the regular season. But does he get us any closer to winning postseason games? I’m not convinced. Run scoring ability wasn’t our problem (see regular season results), it was the ability to score those runs in high-pressure postseason games…

by 26.2cubsfan on Oct 15, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you seen what Manny's done this postseason?

Small sample size caveats apply, but:

against the Cubs: .500 / .643 / 1.100 for an OPS of 1.743
against the Dodgers: .500 / .667 / .917 for an OPS of 1.584

He is like 7 for 8 with RISP.

Seems like he has the ability to score runs in high-pressure postseason games.

by John Q Freejazz on Oct 15, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I do agree that he's likely to be able to repeat that

Still….an OF with Manny and Soriano. Does the offense indeed make up for the runs allowed? I’m not sure. Probably, but I think that Manny’s not the missing piece.

I’m not saying that he’d hurt, though — no disputing the numbers you quoted.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

more than one

A major left-handed hitter, and a gold glove “take charge” shortstop.

"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields

by KedzieKid on Oct 15, 2008 8:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Phillies have 2.5 MVPS in their lineup

Howard and Rollins of course, and Utley was on track until he got hurt last year (or was it the year before) and Rollins is a switch hitter and the other two are lefties…..so they got us beat there.

The Rays were the second best AL team all year, I dont know that their lineup is any better than the Cubs, maybe it was the Mohawks? Certainly Upton and Longoria are on there way to being mega-stars, and I have no doubt Longoria will be a better player than A. Ramirez sooner than later.

I dont know who the Rays intangibles/leader guy is, maybe Percival, I think for the Phillies Rollins is their heart and soul, he laid it out last year that they were gonna beat the Mets.

For all the questions of who the Cubs leader is, the guy who unites them is an “us against them” mentality, well I dont know if he exists. Dempster seems to be well liked and jovial, Lee is kind of laid back, Zambrano is too emotional to be counted on as a leader…..but this is kind of odd, b/c all those intangibles and fire in the belly characteristics are exactly why I hoped Girardi wouldve beaten out Lou for the job.

The philles just have a more balanced lineup, and the Rays are just an up and coming team hitting on all cylinders at the right moment.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 15, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Balanced?

I saw a summary a few weeks ago that said the Phillies line-up has too many right-handed hitters and wouldn’t make it in a short series. Perhaps that author meant the Cubs. But, that same author said the Cubs were beyond question the best team in the NL and would go to the series.

I think we are back to intangibles…and back to some luck, which apparently the Cubs used 97 times this season, but the well ran dry when it counted.

Luck, and a bit more heart — and the ability to “throw out 100 years.” It does seem to matter. It shouldn’t, but there no other way to explain Game of this year’s Divisional Series.

Philadelphia, over all may have a trophy case even smaller than Chicago, but the Phillies have been in a World Series less than 20 years ago. The Tampa Bay market is primed to win their third major championship (in three sports) in less than 15 years.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 15, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Balanced- a bit more

In terms of handedness- Rollins and Victorino are switch hitters and Howard and Utley are lefties, and Burrell is a righty….so in that respect, Id say theyre more balanced.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 15, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about...

scoring twice as many runs in one game as the Cubs did the entire series?

Baseball is a very simple game. You look up after nine innings and if your number is bigger than the other team’s, you win!

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 15, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant!

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they dont care

The players on those teams aren’t concerned about the years of failure. They are simply going out and having fun.

---AC 00 00 00 - Believe

by mjk83 on Oct 15, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

The question is: how do the Cubs get guys who can and will do that?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats a good question

as a fan I want guys who understand and appreciate what all that is Cubdom but at the same time you can’t overthink it.

Honestly I don’t know the answer. If I did I’d call up the Trib and ask for an audience with Jim Hendry.

---AC 00 00 00 - Believe

by mjk83 on Oct 15, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought we had some in...

Dempster, DeRosa, Zambrano, Lee, Edmonds….

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 15, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I thought we did too...

… particularly Dempster. When Dempster, the clubhouse cutup and guy keeping everyone loose all year, failed in game one, I think that tightened everyone else up.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know that it is only on the players...

…as I have said before, I am not sure our management did and said the right things to mentally prepare our guys for the postseason.

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 15, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Difference

between loose, confident, prepared and a term I’ll borrow, which is swagger. Loose=no worries about what is about to occur. Confident=the feeling of being prepared. Swagger=if you look at me wrong I’ll hit you so hard your children will have concussions. Lou wants swagger and we don’t have it, or enough of it. Manny has swagger. You just know he is going to get hits. Soriano is so scary if he ever got it he could provide enough swagger for our entire team, but he is hopeless. DLee has shown it when he charged a pitcher a few years ago but the rest of the time is just a great guy.

My 3 point plan. 1. Get pitchers that throw inside and start riots. 2. Get into some old fashioned bench clearing brawls once in a while in support of your pitchers. 3a. Back up your pitchers with some bashing of the baseball. 3b. Have a guy on your team that truly enjoys being in the middle and who enjoys even more how to show up the other team by always getting the big blow.

Finding that person, good luck.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 15, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

for #3 how about that white haired catcher on the White Sox?

Can’t say his name in connection with a Cubs blog but he’s the ticket

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 15, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on, you know I was kidding

I don’t know how to use that sarcasm sign thing

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 15, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bingo....

could they use a better defender at shortstop? Sure…any number other tweaks could be made as well, but the 2008 Cub roster was good enough collectively to win it all. Look at the cumulative team offensive and defensive stats—they had plenty.

“half this game is 90% mental” Sir Lawrence Berra

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 15, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

They could use a better defender, but is defense the only way to upgrade the position?

Hanley Ramirez is not a great defender and may or may not be a defensive upgrade (both sides can be argued, fielding pct. versus range, etc.). However, Ramirez hits for power and is a much better stolen base threat.

I mention Ramirez on purpose as he is getting closer to big money and the Marlins are traditionally alergic to big money.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Enough about SS

Theriot did not make the Cubs go into a post-season funk, nor did he cause Dempster to implode. Upgrading at SS would not make a significant difference in the question that Al has asked.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 15, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you can't talk about upgrading a position in the offseason,

when can it be discussed?

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Especially when you’re trying to improve upon a good team, and upgrading SS would be one clear improvement.

To whit, Theriot and Fukudome were the only Cub regular starters with an OPS+ of less than 100 (Theriot had 95, Fukudome had 92), and by the end of the season Fukudome wasn’t even a regular starter.

by John Q Freejazz on Oct 15, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get that you can't mention upgrading SS around here without

being labeled a Riot basher. Ryan Theriot is a valuable piece to the team and should be back and contribute unless he is part of a larger deal.

I would like to see SS as the major area to upgrade and the target should be a SS with an elite ceiling. Either an established superstar or a ’ute on the cusp.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree...

…now is not the time to fall in love with players, it is the time for Hendry to fall in love with improving the team.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

talk about all you want

but come up with a solution. who’s available? anything past furcal isnt much better thanwe already have.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 15, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that depends

Do you meen FA, or trades? There are a lot of better shortstops out there. I doubt Hardy would get traded within the NL Central, but can anyone honestly say they’d rather have Theriot than Hardy?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah me

theriot was better than hardy last year. just a crazy thought but you think the rangers would do a deal involving michael young and rich harden? they have a youngsetr ready to take over and FA pitchers dont seem to wanna go there. they need a starter bad and harden would be cheap.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 15, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I disagree on Theriot being better

Higher OBP, yes. Lower SLG and OPS — by a lot. Plus, Hardy is a shortstop – not a second baseman playing short.

Would the Rangers make that trade? They’d be stupid not to. Young is essentially Hardy with less power.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

harden

is a big gamble. keep him and hope he is great or trade him for a good bounty. post theriot and hardy’s numbers if you can. hardy was horrible the 1st half.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 15, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quite frankly...

The Phillies are doing it, because we aren’t (or couldn’t). I’ll admit, I haven’t watched any of the NLCS, but we could easily be the ones up 3-1 on Philly if we played like the regular season version of the Cubs.

The Rays are an interesting story and I wouldn’t mind seeing them win it all. They have a bunch of young guys that look like they’re having fun and are on a tear.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I honestly think

that the Cubs don’t need that one guy to make a difference. They really didn’t need one all summer. The Rays and Phils are playing loose and pounding the baseball. We pounded the baseball all summer but we did have streaks where we looked like Little Leaguers out there. Unfortunately, the LL Cubs showed up for the playoffs.

The BoSox/Dodgers pitchers are being crushed, simple as that. Both teams got some big hits early in the series and it relaxed them. The Cubs got a 2 run dinger from DeRo but that got trumped by the Loney slam and they never recovered. I have said it multiple times, they recovered all year, why didn’t they in the post season? You have to ask them. Lou didn’t help matters, either. Maybe Lou needs to be the guy to rattle their cages and get them to loosen up.

I have also said this before, they players say the 100 year thing has no effect. Maybe in their hearts, it does. They have to say it doesn’t affect them in public, they’re pros. Bu they are still human. And watching post season futility either from the Cubs dugout or from the other side, you tend to think it’s bigger than they let on.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought they had those guys in Demp & Derosa.

I’ve said it before, they have to get off to a hot start in the NLDS and probably every series. Otherwise the fans, media, and probably players are going to think, “here we go again”. Or have an a team like in ‘03 that doesn’t have much expectations.

Sidenote, I was impressed at 11:10 eastern time with the Red Sox down big, there were not many empty seats at Fenway.

James Loney, seriously?

by slocs55 on Oct 15, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I did too and I thnk the team did as well and ironically those are the two players..

..who had the two biggest gaffes which derailed the whole thing…

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 15, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they are doing it because

They’re coming to the park ready to play and when on the field, they execute accordingly.

The Cubs easily could have done the same. They had the talent.

They did not come to the park ready to play. They became head cases and melted down.

Next question …

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Oct 15, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we all know this is the reason.

My question is, how do you accomplish the goal of being “ready to play”? How do you avoid becoming “head cases”?

If you can answer that question, you’ll help build the Cubs championship team.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I think it has nothing to do with actual play. There’s all the pressure from the fans and the press. They play tight because they don’t want to be the guy who screws it up. EVERY infielder had an error in game 2!!! That’s not a matter of not having “the guy”, that’s a matter of letting the pressure get to them.

All one of them has to do is turn the corner. Maybe next year is that year. I’ve been on record as saying that I wouldn’t change a single thing about this team at this point. I continue to believe that.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 15, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you really think

dome is a good choice for next year?

Edmonds?

by tal1286 on Oct 15, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Dome figures it out

over the winter break, and hits a good .268 next year — evenly, throughout the year.

Edmonds is replaced by Pie.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 15, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you're right about Pie

But I’ll make you a side bet for Project 3000. I’ll bet you $5 that Pie is out of the Cubs organization before the end of the 2009 Cubs Convention — and I hope I’m wrong.

You in?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

(BTW)

.268 isn’t good for a corner outfielder with little power. It’s pretty bad, actually.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take that bet

and I hope I’m wrong… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 15, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying he's still there?

By the way, what happened to Drew?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 16, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

I’m saying that by the end of the Cubs convention weekend – I’ll even give you until midnight Sunday – Felix Pie will still be in the Cubs organization.

So if he’s still here, I win, and you owe $5 to Derrek Lee’s Project 3000.
If he’s been traded, you win, and I owe $5 to Project 3000.

And no idea what happened to Drew for I am not my drewid’s keeper… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 18, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alrighty, you're on

Interesting. . . . we’re each betting against our own preferences.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 18, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually I like Felix Pie

but I just don’t think he’s gonna get a(nother) good chance to succeed if he stays with the Cubs. Better for him if he gets traded and starts anew somewhere else.

Obviously I like the Cubs too, so if they can get anything that helps them for Pie, they should do it. Because I don’t think they’re going to get much value out of him if they keep him.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 21, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the answer is...

There is no answer. This team could win it all next year. Or not. But could.

"This field, this game...it reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again." ~ Terence Mann

by chr15 on Oct 15, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

management

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 15, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then who is the answer?

As much as a lot of people bash Dusty on here — and I am a critic of him — he started the change in culture. Piniella has progressed it even further. Who do you propose is a better candidate than Piniella to take the team to the proverbial next level?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just think Pinella...

…is old school, and is the type to more aptly camp out in his office and communicate through his staff to the team. I like Lou, but I question whether or not he personally met with the team and did everything he could from a leadership perspective to put the team at ease.

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 15, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

massages?

sweet whispering from Lou… I think Lou is a big part of the good things that happened to the Cubbies this year and last. I do not want a young manager coming in and trying to hype up the team. Lou is the man.

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 15, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

While not an unfair assertion, I have to ask again

Who would be better? I don’t disagree that Lou isn’t perfect, but he is what he is.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me be clear...

…I am not advocating for a change in personnel in the management ranks necessarily, I just am questioning the style of management that was expressed at the start of the postseason. Was it effective in putting the players’ minds at ease and motivating them to play baseball the way they did all year?

I don’t know the answer to that, of course, but I am speculating that Lou and staff didn’t send the right message to the team in the beginning of the playoffs, or after game 1 and 2.

Whomever it was in the broadcast booth last night kept on remarking about whatever Maddon and crew have done to put the Rays at complete ease was an incredible display of leadership and management ability.

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 15, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pete Rose, Gary Matthews-Type Leader

Mike Schmidt said he was excited to get Pete Rose on the Phillies team in 1979 because the Phillies had lost in the NLCS three seasons in a row from 1976-1978. The Phillies finished a disappointing fourth in 1979. They came back to win the World Series in 1980. Schmidt felt Rose was the leader they needed to get over the hump.

I don’t see a Pete Rose-type leader on this club. The Cubs did have Gary Matthews, Sr. as a veteran leader in 1984. I don’t see Zambrano, D-Lee, A-Ram, or Soriano or anyone else being a “Sarge” on this team.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 15, 2008 8:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you mean a player like Jeff Kent or Scott Rolen?

A leader-type guy? Or a jerk?

I think one of the best leader/jerks is this guy:

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 15, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Was Jake Taylor a jerk?

I never got that impression, except when he tailed his ex wife home to her boyfriends house

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 15, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They weren't actually married before the end of ML 1

But that was a questionable thing. He wasn’t a jerk so much as probably immature in his womanizing days before the time frame of the movie.

I thought that he was a good leader who kept rookies Hayes and Vaughn grounded but wasn’t afraid to get into a vet’s face (Dorn).

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jake was the man.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 15, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if the Cubs lost to the Rays in the World Series?

I dont know if I wouldve been able to handle that

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 15, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Better than being swept in the NLDS, just sayin.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 15, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont know...

I mean its the Devil Rays…..that wouldve been just poetic, tragically poetic

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 15, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First, they are the "Rays," new name new, very talented, team.

Second, have you seen them? wow!

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the baseball gods

approve of their exorcism and are rewarding them accordingly.

---AC 00 00 00 - Believe

by mjk83 on Oct 15, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know they're the Rays...

my point was, we wouldve been beaten by the Devil Rays!! the worst team in the majors for the past decade….just imagine waiting 60+ years to get to the WS and losing to the team formerly known as the Devil Rays….ugh, that would be horrible, and terribly Ironic

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 15, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And instead, they were vastly outdone by the Rays

This is better how, exactly??

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I prefer

The Jesus Rays

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 15, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watching last night was more

HOLY SH*T Rays!!!

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That NL Pennant Would Be Nice

Losing the World Series to any team would be disappointing, but having the NL pennant would be nice.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 15, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus it would be progress

from last year. Than next year we would have to take the final step. Instead, if the Cubs make the playoffs next year, the entire world will be waiting for them to lay an egg.

James Loney, seriously?

by slocs55 on Oct 15, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is exactly why they have to get someone to keep them loose throughout.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't Demp the comedian?

I thought they had a great locker room, and some are saying they need a cocky superstar, isn’t that Soriano?

Bottom line, they need to get off to a quick start in the playoffs, otherwise the pressure swallows the team.

Maybe next year people expecting them to collapse in the playoffs will help, the expectations have changed because of the last two disasters.

I guess what I’m trying to get across is until they play to their ability in the playoffs the outcome will not change. I feel like were reaching here for a solution.

James Loney, seriously?

by slocs55 on Oct 15, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe a different kind of egg?

Been lurking for a while, and this is my first post on BCB. Hi, all.

I think if (when) the Cubs make the playoffs next year, it’ll be different in the ‘psyche out’ department than it was this year. At least, I hope so. My reasoning for this would be the fact that 101, at least to my mind, doesn’t have that same, magical ‘oh-my-God,-wouldn’t-it-be-great-if,-holy-cow-the-pressure-of-it-all’ feel to it. 101 is just a loooooonng time, you know?

If you take all that stuff out (and I agree with Al – that sort of stuff shouldn’t matter in the first place), it just leaves the ‘we can’t remember when we won a post season’ egg. Hopefully, with the team they’ll have, they can scramble that sucker next year.

"From childhood's hour I have not been as others were - I have not seen as others saw." - Alone, Edgar Allan Poe

by Edgewood on Oct 15, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it would have been similar to losing

to the Marlins, another Florida team without fans, save for a few playoff dates. THAT would have been worse. I can take losing to teams like the Red Sox….Yankees..even the White Sox. But to a nondescript franchise……in Florida……….in front of fans who needed mapquest to find the dome… no….I can’t take that.

Losing the Series should never be an embassassment, but it would have been so for the Cubs this time. I don’t see that as progress.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 15, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+100

This was supposed to be the season of progress, and I suppose in terms of the regular season it was. But it was a postseason of mortifying, seizure-inducing regression. I’m not saying I wouldn’t be heartbroken if the Cubs lost in the NLCS, but at least we would’ve been able to call getting there progress. Getting embarassed in the NLDS feels like a step backward.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 15, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they're playing loose

just like the Cubs were before the Dempster walk-a-thon in the 5th when the Cubs hitters were 6-16 with a BB in the first 4 innings.

The Cubs got tight after Dempster’s walk-a-thon and never got loose again.

How do you change this? I don’t know

I guess it would help to have an extroverted star or someone who is absurdly cocky. Guys like Jimmy Rollins and Carlos Pena seem to be keeping the clubhouses quite loose

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 15, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Dodgers play loose

…and lose. The Red Sox don’t seem to be tense, they just seem to have bad pitching all of the sudden.

by Wreckard on Oct 15, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Execution + Luck

The team needs to execute. The team needs a little luck. That is the secret to post season success.

There has been a lot of talk about “mental toughness” and “playing loose”. Anyone who watched this team all year KNOWS how mentally tough they were. They never backed down. They never gave up. To suggest that they lost this attribute the second they entered to postseason seems a little inconsistent to me.

To the extent that “mental toughness” and “playing loose” has anything to do with it, I think you have to go back to the Game 1 Grand Slam. If Dempster escapes that inning, perhaps the whole mental complexion of the series changes. If the Cubs had put up 2-3 runs before the Dodgers did, maybe the same thing. Maybe the team can exhale, relax a bit, and start playing ball. To get to that point you need a little execution and a little luck.

by MikeIowa on Oct 15, 2008 9:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We put up the first runs when DeRosa hit the homer. It didn't matter.

We couldn’t beat LA because we lacked lefthanded hitting. Look at how the Phillies are pounding them.

by Rick B on Oct 15, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but

being right handed didn’t cause our entire infield to commit errors in Game 2, nor did it cause Dempster to implode, or anything else.

Not saying that left-handed hitting wouldn’t have been useful, just saying that our lack of it was not outcome-determinative.

by MikeIowa on Oct 15, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I pointed this out to my son

as we were blowing another playoff game. There is a difference between having talent and being a winner. As our guys sat on the bench, with their heads down in L.A. , it was obvious we were lacking leaders and winners. The Red Sox and Yankees find them. The Rays have found some young ones. It’s up to Hendry and Lou to not only look at stats but the heart of the player.

by Rick B on Oct 15, 2008 9:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Difficult to do...

…but I understand what you are saying.

Lou tried real hard before the playoffs to take the pressure off of the club. He said things that we all know he didn’t mean; “it won’t be a dissppointing season if we don’t win it all” etc. etc. I don’t think Lou believed that for a minute, but he tried to take pressure off of the players by doing that.

If they are able to make the playoffs next year, I would take the opposite approach if I was Lou and tell these guys that he expects them to win it all and play like champions (he may have said this behind closed doors for all I know). Take a page from the Herb Brooks school of coaching that he used during the 6-7 months he coached the gold medal olympic team, and that was to challenge his players to be better. In fact, in the gold medal game against Finland, the US were down 2-1 between the 2nd and 3rd period and were close to blowing all the hard work they did over a long period of time and just beating the Russians a couple of days before. Do you know what Brooks told them for encouragement?

“After all you have been through, if you blow this chance, you will take it to your fu@kin graves” They proceeded to go out and score 3 goals to win the gold medal. Maybe this team needs a swift kick in the ass and a personal challenge to be the best they can be.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know...

…but when you say something to the media, you are also talking to the players as well because they will hear it.

All indications were he was trying to take pressure off of the club and if he said something completely different to them behind closed doors, his credibility would be there because they would be hearing mixed messages and he isn’t that stupid.

In hindsight, maybe he should have challenged his players more at the start. I could be wrong, but I’ll bet you see a Piniella next year with a little more consistant fire throughout the season. We saw flashes of it the past two years, but he was clearly holding back at times and you could tell. It could very well be, an aggressive approach is what (the current makeup of the club) needs to get over the playoff hump.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

post game recaps

I never saw any heart from any Cubs players after each beat down vs. the Dodgers. Was it just me? The only time I actually saw even a little bit of fire was after DLee struck out AGAIN on a low outside pitch (as he did all season).
No fire on this team at all, not even from Lou

Check out my Cubs shrine: http://picasaweb.google.com/vegascubfan/CubsRooms#

by VegasCubFan on Oct 16, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Competition

We have a good team, but AMEN to the need for a big time player. We may have finished with 97 wins, but 39 of them were aginst very weak Astros, Reds, Pirates and Cardinals. When we go up against teams in tougher divisions we have problems, ie, being swept by the Rays for example.

Ya gotta love a team with a shortstop named TheRiot ...

by StampMe on Oct 15, 2008 9:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not entirely fair

How about sweeping a red hot Milwaukee team in Milwaukee?

I don’t think we can chalk up 97 wins as only being able to beat bad teams. And, frankly, the ability to routinely beat the bad teams is how every team wins 97 games.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Oct 15, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Milwaukee wasn't that good either - let's keep things in perspective.

The way these teams are playing in the postseason this year – not even comparable to the way we were capable of playing.

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 15, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beg to differ

Milwaukee went in the tank in September, no doubt about it. But, let’s be clear, the Milwaukee team that the Cubs swept in 4 games in Milwaukee was a VERY good team. They beat Sabathia, who had not lost yet in the NL. They beat the very hot Sheets, the All Star Game starter.

This was a team that had made up a 5 game deficit in 9 games.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Oct 16, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mental toughness

The Rays and ESPECIALLY the Phils are simply not allowing the longing of their fanbase to affect there play. They are professionals and playing to the level that their paychecks reflect. The Cubs, on the otherhand, are not mentally tough and allow the fanbase’s passion to weigh down on them like an anchor.

There has been a lot of talk about the actual fanbase and the attitude towards the team in the playoffs and it WAS negative. I was at game two and was embarrassed. However, all that place needed was ONE clutch hit, ONE inning ending double play, ONE web gem and it would of turned around.

The other teams still in the playoffs can deliver those game changing/momentum swinging plays while the Cubs could not.

by krauze on Oct 15, 2008 9:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No, it's luck

Errors happen. Good teams lose (hell, GREAT teams lose about 5/8ths of the time). ONE clutch hit, ONE inning-ending double play, ONE web gem . . . we didn’t get them because we were s&*@ out of luck.

by MikeIowa on Oct 15, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

5/8?

Great teams lose 62.5% of the time?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Err

. . . and great mathematicians are wrong 1/10th of the time. But I am not a great mathematician. I meant 3/8ths.

by MikeIowa on Oct 15, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

72% of stats are made up and...

84% of the public believe 100% of what they hear. While the other 16% believe on 53%.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 15, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That, I can go along with....

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The stat.

Not saying you aren’t a great mathemetician. Anyone can make a typo.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know who that one guy is

but I know one player on our team that seems to fit that bill, and he was left rotting on the bench in the NLDS.

"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." ~Arthur C. Clarke

by Goodie1969 on Oct 15, 2008 9:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Milton?

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 15, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Close enough.

"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." ~Arthur C. Clarke

by Goodie1969 on Oct 15, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay...I will take this from here...

Reed Johnson?

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 15, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right on.

Reed is the type of guy who seems like his switch is always on HIGH, and doesn’t know any other way but to go all out. Give me an outfield of three Reed Johnsons, an infield of four DeRosas, and Ted Lilly on the bump, and I’ll start clearing out space in the trophy case.

"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." ~Arthur C. Clarke

by Goodie1969 on Oct 15, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hitting the ball in Fair Territory..

They are putting the ball in play, where the other team’s fielder’s are not able to field the ball and record outs. This allows them to get baserunners, and in turn, helps them to score runs. Its quite simple actually.

by jimvanders on Oct 15, 2008 9:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's due to magic and Palin's witch doctor

Aside from that, I don’t know. We’ve reviewed this aspect ad nauseum. These teams go out to play, not to satiate other people’s beliefs about destiny. Watching the Rays, they’re just playing the game, and they’re outplaying the Red Sox. Who is a leader on that team, or someone that plays the role of leader more than someone on our team?

For the Phils, they have Matt Stairs. Why oh why did we ditch Matt Stairs? That, and a lot of players on their team are fairly fired up guys. They possess the “intangibles” that the Cubs don’t. That’s the best way I can explain it.

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 15, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Players like Matt Stairs don't stay with one team that long

No one does, actually.

You want to lament the loss of Stairs? Really? How many other ex-Cubs have made it further in the playoffs after leaving? Are they really the “missing piece”?

I like Stairs — he seems like a good character guy. But since he left the Cubs after 2001, he’s changed teams 8 times. I really don’t think that’s the difference.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was being facetious.

Little tougher to convey in text than I thought.

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 15, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may have hit on something.

Stairs IS a good character guy and I think one of the reasons the 2001 Cubs overachieved. He helped keep ’em loose.

Why has he changed teams so much? Because he’s not much of a fielder, doesn’t really have a position, and no AL team has taken him on as a fulltime DH.

Would he be the answer now? No, because he’s 41 next year and probably done. Would he have made a difference this October? Maybe.

There are other guys like that around. Find one of ’em.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Cubs HAD a guy like that.

His name is Jim Edmonds.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 15, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought so, too

I was really impressed that after they clinched, not only did he talk to the team about it being the first step, but he asked Lee’s permission first before addressing the team.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question...

Does the GUY have to be an every day player?

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I don't think that he does

I think Stairs helped keep the Cubs loose in ’01. I think Coomer helped when he was a Cub, too.

Eric Karros would be someone else that I’d put in that category, too.

I never played competitively at a high level, so I may be wrong, but I’m guessing a role player could do it. The advantage of it being an every day player is the larger role on the team, but — I think that a professional team sees every one as part of the team (at least most of the players do) – including trainers, travelling secretaries, media relations, etc.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what I'm thinking.

1. The clubhouse needs another veteran leader. Someone who can come in year one, like Karros, and keep the team on target.

2. The team needs an all around clutch player like a Sizemore, Utley, Crawford, Manny. A guy who can carry the team when they are hot, but are more consistant than Soriano. That is what is so maddening about the Fonz. With his talent, he should be this guy.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed on both

If Soriano and Zambrano grew up a little bit and had some introspection, they could be scary good.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Therein lies the problem...

…why ask a guy that has shown no leadership ability for permission to talk about leadership and the post-season.

Lee has been a solid player, but he wasn’t a leader on that ’03 Marlins team, it was Pudge.

Possible leaders, or leaders-by-committee could include…

(1) Pitching staff…The Bulldog, Ted Lilly. Nobody tougher than him when we needed a big win this year. NEVER touched the ball in the post-season.

(2) Regular players…Mark DeRosa…to me, clearly our MVP this year. Career numbers with being moved all over the batting order and playing almost every position.

(3) Bench players…Reed Johnson. He was mentioned above…never ever took a play off…he had the Pete Rose/Charlie Hustle mentality.

(4) Future leader…Geovany Soto. There are a few great catchers out there, and his potential is unlimited. Easily one of the top 5 catchers this year, and you could make an argument for top 3.

This leadership thing is not a new problem…it surfaced with the meltdown in 2006 and hasn’t been fixed yet.

Just my .02

by salukipete on Oct 16, 2008 4:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is all fine and dandy...

…but unless any of you have email addresses for Lee, DeRosa, etc – this really is not worth discussing any further.

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 16, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's absurd

This is a Cubs discussion site. There are probably 1 or 2 of us that have some legitimate connections within the Cubs organization, in addition to Al. So, the rest of us shouldn’t comment?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 16, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 17, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got it -- thanks for setting us all straight.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 17, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

that Stairs still has another year on his deal…He is going to be on the Phillies next year in some capacity, which Gillick knew when he picked him up…

"There is not a better offense in America. Missouri has had 48 possessions and scored on 33 of them. The nation's No. 1 scoring offense has punted just five times and has yet to go three-and-out." Tom Dienhart, Rivals.com

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 15, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry. Had my sarcasm detector off this morning.

But the character point is true.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's ok

I shouldn’t be attempting such things in text. Force of habit I guess.

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 15, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fred McGriff Arrival=Matt Stairs Departure

When the Cubs got Fred McGriff in 2001, everyone knew that Matt Stairs was not going back for the Cubs in 2002.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 15, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Stairs

The Cubs went out and did the opposite of what they did all year to win. Period. Matt Stairs wouldn’t have made any difference.

by Jasely on Oct 15, 2008 10:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Chase Utley

Don’t know what it is about the guy – he’s not the best player in the league, but he’s just a good ballplayer. I think that type of player makes a big difference on your club.

by montanacubby on Oct 15, 2008 10:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If the answer is Micah Hoffpauir, what is the question?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who is a left handed power hitter

that could possibly could play in RF

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 15, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the answer to that question

is NOT Micah Hoffpauir.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 15, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name the Cubs most tantalizing left-handed "power hitting prospect" since Hee-Seop Choi?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 15, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno. Who?

It’s not Micah Hoffpauir.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would hope it's not.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 16, 2008 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because they're free to just play baseball...

but it’s not that simple for us. we have 100 years of emotional baggage to overcome. I get insanely jealous over these other teams who can just go out and play, and have no such pressure to overcome. Not just any talented team will do in our case- certain men, hand picked for their emotional and clubhouse makeup, will be the only ones who can overcome the 100 years of pressure. A team that might win a WS for another franchise wouldn’t necessarily do so for us- the pressure and ghosts of past failures hangs over this franchise too much. It makes me sad, really.

by reedjohnson on Oct 15, 2008 10:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You're onto something there

As I was watching the Rays last night, completely dispassionately, I realized how much fun they were having. Granted they were blowing out the Sox but there was no sense in the least of “how are we going to blow this 7 run lead?” I then tried to morph the game into a WS game where it was the Cubs vs Red Sox but the Cubs players were all those young Tampa Bay kids instead of the real Cubs. And in that imaginary, projected game Evan Longoria, et al, locked up, tensed up and did not have fun; that is, I could not see them in my mind winning the game wearing royal blue. That was depressing.

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 15, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anecdote

Your post reminds me of listening to Game 4 of the NLCS in 2003 at Camp Randall Stadium, sitting next to another Cub fan. I don’t remember what the score was, but the Cubs had a huge lead late, and Florida got a runner or two on. The guy next to me said something like, “Only Cubs fans could be nervous with a lead like that.” I agreed . . . which maybe speaks to the whole gloom and doom thing, but hell, we’ve been given enough reason.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

as in that game was the last post season victory.....

…who would have thought that at the time?

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 15, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, no kidding

I think a good percentage of Cub fandom thought the 2004 post-season was their birthright. I certainly expected them to be back (which they have been) and won a few (um) by now.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's Luck

I lifted this from the Wall Street Journal back in April.

Question:

In baseball, suppose the American League champion is better than the National League champion, such that it has a 55% probability of winning each game against the NL champ. Then the NL champ nonetheless will win a best-of-seven-games series four in 10 times. What is the smallest odd number, X, for which a World Series between these two league champs that is best-of-X will ensure that there’s a 95% probability of a just result — the superior AL champ winning?

Answer: The probability of the AL team winning a certain number of games can be represented by a graph of the binomial distribution, explained here. Calculating the probability that the AL team wins at least n games in a series of 2n-1 games is equivalent to graphing the probability of winning a certain number of games, and then adding the area under the part of the graph equivalent to the AL team winning at least n games. (This assumes the series continues even after one team clinches, which makes the calculation easier and doesn’t change the result.)
In Excel or another spreadsheet program, a single formula handles this. In Excel, that’s =BINOMDIST. This calculates the probability that the NL team wins no more than n-1 games, which is necessary for the AL team to win the series. Applying this formula to every possible number of games, from seven and up, you eventually find that the AL has a 94.9% chance of winning a best-of-267 game series and a slightly greater than 95% chance of winning a best-of-269 game series. So the right answer is 269 games.
Comments: A best-of-269 game series is 107 games longer than the regular season. And yet that’s how many games it would take to feel 95% confident that the better team won, if the better team has a 55% probability of winning each game. Lower that to 53%, and it would take 751 games to properly sort them out — a doubleheader each day of the year wouldn’t suffice. Probability really varies each game, depending on home field and pitching matchups, but this approximation does illustrate how likely it is for the better team to lose. "This is why the baseball postseason is so ridiculous," reader Joe Lurito commented. "It’s basically a crapshoot at seven games."

by dorf on Oct 15, 2008 10:51 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Here’s another great post on this from JC Bradbury, one of my favorite baseball bloggers.

Few things annoy me more than when people insist that an outcome must be attributable to some easily-identifiable cause. Life is full of randomness, why can’t people admit this? It may not satisfying answer, but it is frequently the correct answer.

One of my favorite quotes in there comes in the comments:

Ever since its inception, perception of baseball has been controlled by writers, who understand everything as a narrative. It was not until people like Bill James that fans started to understand that you can appreciate baseball in a non-narrative perspective.

Everyone is desperately trying to assign some kind of story to the Cubs failure. And to find a place for it in the greater story of the Cubs futility.

In a way, this is part of the problem – people talk about getting rid of the banners, the stadium, the symbols of failure and yet even if we did that it would still just be part of the story. The solution is to get away from this approach completely – stop playing armchair psychologist and trying to assign a narrative to everything after the fact.

by Wreckard on Oct 15, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

But, human nature being what it is, I suppose we all want a concrete explanation. So there will be many answers on this forum. But you, Dorf, have the only correct one.

by MikeIowa on Oct 15, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rays....

…have clearly done well with player development and have some exceptional young talent. Sometimes, these young guys don’t know any better and they just go out and play without feeling a lot of pressure. There is something to be said for youthful enthusiasm and how that can interject life into the team.

The Phils just have a solid club and they are playing like they have something to prove. They are refusing to let anything get in the way of them performing and that is the sign of a championship team. Really, they could have crumbled after Howard’s error in the last game, but they come up with two huge dingers against a dominant pitcher.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 10:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Padres are loaded with youth.

That hasn’t gotten them anywhere. If ‘youth’ is defined as “young, very talented players” then I agree.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 15, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe I did use...

…the word talent in there somewhere.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When both the pitcher AND your catcher have to actually GLARE into the dugout...

…in Game 1 of the NLDS because it’s painfully obvious to EVERYONE there (except apparently the manager and the pitching coach) that your starter (Dempster) has NOTHING left – and then and only then do they even have someone START TO WARM UP, it’s pretty obvious the ‘engine’ that was the Cubs team (the 97-win one) is not running correctly anymore.

That still astounds me. What is it about how Lou and co. manage in the post-season that seems a complete 180 from what I saw in almost all the other 162 games???

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on Oct 15, 2008 10:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree...

…that I was surpised Larry didn’t go out and try to get Dempster on track. If he couldn’t think of it himself, Lou should have told him to.

This is not a defense, but for whatever reason, most managers tend to stay with their top starter longer in a playoff situation as compared to the regular season. In Dempster’s case, it was pretty clear he was lost and I think they made a mistake by not goint out and slowing things down.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Rothschild can go to Detroit? And the Cubs can get Mazzone.

I have never been a huge Rothschild fan. I read that Detroit is looking to hire a new pitching coach, and as I recall, Rothschild was up for it when Leyland got hired a couple of years ago. Maybe Larry can go to Detroit and the Cubs can scoop up Leo Mazzone.

Just a thought/dream. I would love to see Mazzone working with some of our young arms.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 15, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rothschild...

…is not someone I have ever thought was as good as advertised either. I don’t know whether he is locked in for multiple years, but I would not be sad to see him go.

Frankly, I am tired of seeing guys like Duncan squeeze blood out of a turnip and watch Rothschild year after year. Also, it is Rothschilds job to sit down with his pitchers and go over the scouting reports of every hitter in a very intense manner for the playoffs. I know the pitchers till have to execute, but I didn’t want them to retain Rothschild when Lou came on board.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone notice that...

…the Cubs have two ex-Rays managers on their staff who couldn’t win with young players, and the Rays have a Scioscia disciple who has changed the culture of the organization after both those guys left? Think that’s a coincidence.

Also, the Rays have made the most of the young talent in the organization, either bringing up the homegrown talent (Longoria, Upton), trading other talent (Delmon Young, Elijah Dukes, Aubrey Huff, Ty Wigginton) for critical pieces of their team.

There’s really no secret to hiring a manager that can change the culture and do a superior job of talent evaluation and scouting.

Formerly a Cub fan...but never again!

by NotSure on Oct 15, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This Rays...

…team is far different than it was a few years ago. Some of their raw talent has matured, and they have added others who were not around when Piniella was there.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 16, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like ex-Cub, Uncle Cliffie

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 18, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's obvious

“Screw everyone else, we’re in this to win it for US”

McCain / Palin: The POW / WOW! Ticket

by Goat Whisperer on Oct 15, 2008 11:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Or..

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 15, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs need to start drafting college power hitters.

The Cubs have a massive money advantage over most MLB teams. Unfortunately, MacPhail did not believe in exerting that advantage, and we passed on players like Carlos Beltran, and then signed Alfonso Soriano.

That being said, the primary problem with this Cubs team is that it has no truly great power hitter. Soriano is streaky and kills mistakes. Aramis is streaky and a very nice complementary player. Derrek Lee looked like he was going to be that great power hitter, and he’s paid to be that guy, but it’s become apparent that it just isn’t going to happen for him.

Where do the Cubs’ rivals get their great power hitters? Generally, through the draft, and generally, by drafting hitters who already displayed power at the college level. I hate to keep harping on this, but the Cubs seem to be allergic to college power hitters for some reason. We’ve drafted college pitchers (Prior, Hagerty, Blasko, Brownlie, Samardzjia, Cashner), we’ve drafted college kids who haven’t displayed power (Glanville, Colvin), and we’ve drafted prep “power hitters” (Vitters, Harvey, Montanez, etc.), and prep “tools” guys like Dunston, Patterson,

You’d have to go all the way back to Rafael Palmiero in 1985 to see the Cubs taking an established NCAA power hitter. I don’t know why that’s the case.

It seems that we do a lot of waiting and hoping for guys to turn doubles power into HR power, while other teams just draft the Teixeras and Utleys and Howards and Brauns and Longorias and LaPortas and Wieterses of the world and get on with it.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 15, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's go down the list

Let’s take a look at the Cubs current roster and evaluate their “outward” leadership and, for lack of a better term, fire on the field. This is purely subjective of course.

Soto – Too young to “lead” the team now. Has potential as an IRod type player. With another year or two of success, he could become that veteran leader.

DLee – Too laid back, mellow. I believe he has been significantly, but understandably, distracted since his daughter’s illness. Good lieutenant, but not the guy to lead you “over the hill”.

DeRosa – Good character guy, but not a superstar leader that people will follow. Too bad, because as a former quarterback he probably has just those qualities.

Theroit/Fontenot/Cedeno – No (notice that all their names end in “O” or “no”? Just sayin.
Ramirez – Another quiet guy, not a vocal leader. Doesn’t seem to have the emotion.

Soriano – Headcase. Yes he can hit, but not a guy you want leading you into battle. He might just run the wrong way.

Edmonds – Here is the mold of the guy we want. Just a younger version. The trick is finding him. I admire the way that he stepped up this past year. If he had been here a little longer, another year perhaps, maybe it would have made a difference.

Fukudome – Bwahahahahahaha. No. Even if he remembers how to hit, he is clearly not a dynamic presence in the clubhouse (at least in a positive way.)

Pitchers – Pitchers generally don’t fill this role. Throwing every five days just doesn’t open the door for this sort of leadership. However, a guy like Dempster could help steady the pitching staff.

Wood is the exception here. As a closer, he could be “that guy”, like Trevor Hoffman in SD. But to be that guy, he needs to be more consistent on the mound. And when I say more consistent, I mean 40 saves in 41 attempts consistent. For him to be that leader, he has to come out and there has to be no doubt in anyone’s mind that he is going to get three outs. I don’t think that has been there the last two years.

So, we have a bunch of soldiers, a couple of guys who have the numbers but not the personality, a couple of flakes, one “leader” past his prime, and another who may be coming into his prime – and that is a big maybe.

As for the other teams…

IMHO, the Dodgers aren’t solely benefitting from the Manny-effect. Yes, his bat is ridiculous, and his headcase antics serve as a distraction for the media, allowing the rest of the team to get their jobs done. But the Dodgers are a team of veterans who came together at the right time. They have a couple of leaders in Kent and Garciaparra, they have young kids who are producing. Even Casey Blake has been a steadying influence.

As for the Phillies, they are the prototypical “good” team. Strong up the middle both offensively and defensively, a good mix of power bats and OBP guys, and solid defense.

The thing that has bugged me the most about the season is the way the media has portrayed the Rays as some sort of miracle. There is no miracle. There is the benefit of drafting intelligently near the top of every round in every draft for the last 10 years or so. Yes, fans put up with 10 years of mediocrity, and now that talent is blooming. This is no miracle, it is simply good administration, good leadership and good managing.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 15, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Disagree on DeRosa...

…you don’t need a superstar to take on this role. In fact, on many clubs it is an average player that gets the job done in regard to leadership.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see DeRosa step up in this role next year and be a little more vocal.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to see him do this.

I’m not sure if he has the personality for it, but he definitely has the mindset.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 15, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he was half as chatty in the clubhouse as he is on talk radio,

he’d already be doing it.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, something tells me...

…DeRo is too smart for his own good. He doesn’t have that brash “follow me or I’ll whup your ass” attitude. He may have a tendency to overthink things and secondguess himself. In other news, I love being an armchair psychologist.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 15, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some of the points are valid

But you lost me on the names ending in “no”. Who are you, Buster Olney? That’s irrelevant.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is, but it struck me as funny...

I hadn’t ever noticed it before.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 15, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Months ago I stated here

that “the Phillies are the only team that scares me.”

Why, you ask, Al?

Let’s count the ways:

One, sure thing pitcher. Two other starters that are “good enough”, including Joe Blanton.

Two, the bullpen is mighty improved. JC Romero is terrific from the left (compare him to ANY lefty reliever we’ve used this year). And Lidge is a Beast, this year.

Three, THEY CAN SCORE RUNS from any spot in the lineup, with LH prowess.

Four, they have some speed with Vittorino, and Rollins

Five, they can go deep with the best of them

Six, a nice defensive club

How can you not see that really – they were the better team this year and are proving it when it counts the most? Plus, they did not get to play the Pirates as much as the Cubs.

by The E-Man on Oct 15, 2008 11:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well said

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know why this matters now

Since the Cubs didn’t get far enough to play them anyway.

Until October, Dempster pretty much was a sure thing pitcher, too. No one pitches great every time out. Stuff happens.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aside from the LH prowess...

and MAYBE the “sure-thing” starter (though I’d take Harden ahead of Hamels), you could make the same statements about the Cubs. In fact, I’d say we had BETTER starting pitching, a better bullpen, and a deeper lineup. Victorino and Rollins are better speed guys than Soriano and Theriot, but I’d argue that they didn’t win because of speed.

The difference was that the bottom of the Phillies’ lineup happened to produce in October and the bottom of our lineup didn’t, one of our top starters lost his command, and our defense (which had generally been solid) had a bad game.

I don’t think your argument holds water here, because what you listed as the Phillies’ strengths happened to be mostly BIGGER strengths for the Cubs.

The only place I’d say that we were less prepared than the Phillies was in having LH hitting prowess in the lineup. But it’s not like the Phillies’ LH bats have been that amazing anyway. Howard and Utley stunk in the NLCS.

by SouthernCub on Oct 16, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ressurrection project

would like to see us get baldelli for the league min. if possible and see if he can turn it around.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 15, 2008 12:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Honestly this is as useful as arguing about the AC sign

Sorry but there is no one miracle man and there never has been. When teams win suddenly folks decide it was player
X who made the difference despite the fact that player X was on the team for the past 3 years when the team sucked and in fact player X was WITH the Cubs a few years before or comes a year later. Now getting the right player(s) with the talents you need makes the difference but not some single guy who inspires and kicks ass at the same time IF anybody should do that it is the manager and I am not going there.
Frankly there is a lot of luck involved but it does in the end boil down to the right players, managers and coaches being able to do what they are supposed to during the season AND in the post season and not goats, signs, good fans, bad fans or a single player you can just go out and get.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 15, 2008 12:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kind of unrelated...

But I think Evan Longoria is going to be something REAL special…Even more than I thought this season…

Could prob hit 30+ HR’s a year…Perennial All-Star? This guy thinks so.

"There is not a better offense in America. Missouri has had 48 possessions and scored on 33 of them. The nation's No. 1 scoring offense has punted just five times and has yet to go three-and-out." Tom Dienhart, Rivals.com

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 15, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My gut reaction is that...

…any pursuit of one guy who would lead the team to postseason success would be a fool’s errand. You can’t pick leaders off a grocery store shelf; they have to evolve from within the team. Did the Cardinals “raise” Albert Pujols to be a leader? No, he grew into that role by both action and attitude. There are probably other examples.

What the Cubs need to do is continue putting together well-balanced teams and making it to the postseason. And they need to play as a team and not look to any one player to “ignite” them. I keep going back to how Lou repeatedly said that Alfonso Soriano ignites the offense and then shuddering at the prospect of a contending team’s offense livng and dying according to such an extremely streaky player. (And, yeah, I know all players are streaky – but Soriano’s streaks just seem more pronounced, either in reality or in appearance.)

The Phillies and Rays are winning because they’re playing a team sport as a team. That’s what the Cubs need to do to win.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 15, 2008 12:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...

…we could relocate the team to Florida? To date, no Florida-based team has ever lost a playoff series. :)

Seriously, though, I’m not sure there’s one magic-bullet solution to the clubhouse makeup. Frankly, a lot of playoff baseball (particularly in the short series) comes down to luck. There are no bad teams in the playoffs, so every little mistake or bad day is amplified tenfold, as you have to assume that your opponent will make the most of their extra chances. We just need to keep fielding quailty teams, which we did this year, and put ourselves in a position to make another run at the playoffs.

…and I typed too slowly, as dat cubfan daver beat me to the punch a little. :)

by MarchHare on Oct 15, 2008 12:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dat's how I roll.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 15, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The one guy?

daver said:

“You can’t pick leaders off a grocery store shelf; they have to evolve from within the team. Did the Cardinals "raise" Albert Pujols to be a leader? No, he grew into that role by both action and attitude.”

Which I think is a very good point.

So, the one guy?

Geovany Soto.

Maybe not yet, but I think in a year or two he will be.

He gives it everything he’s got, is a great hitter, good defender, calls games, manages the pitching staff (including Zambrano!), shows leadership qualities.

by John Q Freejazz on Oct 15, 2008 12:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree -- he could grow into that role

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, he's been growing into that role

His handling of the pitching staff this year demonstrated his leadership abilities. And his selflessness in terms of his personal stats resonated in the clubhouse, too.

Being a catcher, he’s expected to be a leader, and I would say within the next 1-2 years Soto will the leader of this team.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 15, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One guy? Doesn't exist, we must look from within, and then and only then, will you find the master!

Well of course the teams all have the player with the “it” factor, but the real reason why those teams are successful are that there line-up are complete from top to bottom.

The Cubs line-up lacks high OBS/Lefty/Speed at the top of the order. We also lack the true LH power bat in the middle of the line-up to split up the RH Bat’s. By having no balance in our line-up, it makes our team very vulunarable to a solid RH pitcher, especially it allows the pitcher to get into a groove working just 1 side of the plate with his sliders and curveballs and the Cubs’s are either too stubborn or just can’t make adjustments.
Hopefully we can either get Chone Figgins or Brian Roberts at the top of our order. and get a LH /Swith bat like Milton Bradley, Raul Ibnanez, or even the man Mark Texiera!

Could life get that great for us?

by MrShowtime on Oct 15, 2008 12:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So Al...

Does this mean you’ll be making your personnel post today? I’ve been waiting to hear your opinions on what (if anything) needs to be done! :)

by hmlee on Oct 15, 2008 1:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ya Gotta Have Heart!

I tried to capture the essence of what I think some of us are talking about in my latest article over at Bleacher Report. Check it out and let me know if you agree.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/69098-come-to-think-of-itphillies-and-rays-prove-ya-gotta-have-heart

by rememberthecoop on Oct 15, 2008 1:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Players With Playoff Experience

Kenny Lofton was available ALL season. He has the following:

1) Left handed bat
2) Playoff experience
3) Quality leadoff man

We need a top end lead off hitter, whoever the next Kenny Loften is will hopefully play for the beloved.

by CubbieKoolAid on Oct 15, 2008 1:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Okay, I give.

Lofton has been the answer since 2004. How old is he and are we now talking about the latest Rickey Henderson.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops

I just want a similar style of player to lead off, that’s all. There’s only one Rickey Henderson!!! :-)

by CubbieKoolAid on Oct 15, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows who that guy is

it seems that no matter who they bring in, the pressure of ending the postseason futility gets to them. Aramis has proven himself to be a pretty clutch rbi guy during the regular season, but he has been an absolute train wreck in the postseason. The Phillies won a WS in 1980. The Rays really don’t have any pressure on them, because nobody expected them to be where they are right now anyway. It’s all gravy for them. I’m pretty sure the Rays players aren’t feeling pressured by the expectations of their fans right now, although I think that argument is a cop out if used by Cub players or management. I really think that once this team wins a World Series (hopefully before I drop dead), they will probably go back again shortly after that first appearance, much like what has happened with the Red Sox. The pressure will be off.

by qccub on Oct 15, 2008 1:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

For those who are bored to tears, like Al references in the title

I invite you to check out the Blackhawks. While they are trying to find themselves in a new system being implemented by HoF head coach Denis Savard, they’re a young team trying to break through. They’re the 2nd youngest team in the NHL.

And for the first time since Gerald Ford was President, they are on TV. Yes, the Blackhawks have stepped into the 20th century, just 40 years a bit too late.

Even if you’re not a hockey fan you may be interested in seeing the fastest team sport in the universe.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 15, 2008 1:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do they play in the fall league?

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How did Savard...

…change the system from last year?

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Greatest overall emphasis on defence

and more over puck control from their own end and through the neutral zone.

They were a “clear it out” and “dump it in & chase” team last year. Now, it’s a control-type approach where they do a better job to control the puck in their own end and come out with the bisquit looking to carry it in over the line.

An enabler of this is Campbell as long as he does his job on his side of the blue line. Whether or not Savvy is going to keep Keith and Seabrook apart (they were paired together again for a good portion of Monday’s game) will be determined by the overall success of both 1st and 2nd set defenders.

I know Ovechkin is a bundle to handle but Campbell has to put the body on him as he came over the line on Sat. Twice his inability to do this cost the ‘Hawks a goal. Savvy’s new system should try to correct this.

On the PP, they are going to concentrate more on puck movement initiated by the point men. They have to expand the defences p-kill box to open up opportunities in the slot. Having Byfuglien on the point will be interesting, though I’d much rather see him in the deep slot.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 15, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks...

…I know it takes a while to get new systems down (a good 15-20 games) and hopefully they can get it down before long.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will say

That I was, and still am, stoked for this season for the Blackhawks. Also, do the Bulls still play basketball, or is that myth?

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 15, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Execution

I don’t know how much more pleased we would be had the Cubs won 1-2 games against the Dodgers and still lost that series, or had they won that series and dropped the NLCS. Both would have been an improvement over their previous postseason.

We’ve all seen tournaments where the teams with the best record or the most highly acclaimed teams don’t make it to the finals. Why?

I don’t believe the Cubs were the best team in the NL by the time the season ended. How many games did they win in September?

I don’t believe that resting the team after the division was clinched was beneficial. That was done to protect players from injury, to allow the callups to play, and maybe to stage some tryouts for the postseason roster. Rather, they should have rested only players who had to be rested. In 07’ they thought the team was out of gas and so they tried to avoid that.

Some people feel situational pressure, while others have to have pressure or see it as placed squarely on themselves before they feel real pressure. In high pressure situations you would of course rather have the latter.

Last, I see no reason why the first play-off series should be shorter than the others. While not applicable this postseason, the team with the best record should also play the team with the worst record even if the teams are in the same division.

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 15, 2008 2:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with just about all you said

And yes, losing 3-2 or 3-1 in the NLDS would have been a disappointment. But, at least that would have looked like they showed up….

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The answer is to try and trade Lee Theriot anc Ceda for Matt Cain

and then sign Furcal for SS and sign Dunn to play First base…

Furcal
DeRosa RF
Rammy
Dunn
Soriano
Soto
FOntenot
Johnson/Pie/Fukudome looks good for me

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 15, 2008 2:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

with a rotation of Z, Cain, Harden, Lilly, and Marshall/Marquis/Shark/Hill/Dempster

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 15, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would it be too greedy

to sign Teixeira for 1B? I mean you have D-Lee going (which I also considered), so why not, it costs only money, no trade, correct? He’s an unrestricted FA, right?

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 15, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no Dunn please no Dunn

Can’t stand a guy striking out that much

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 15, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This might come as a surprise to you, but I agree.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 15, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he also had more runs a better OBP and OPS than Lee...

Way too much hate here for Dunn plus he tears the cover off the ball at wrigley…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 15, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The hits at Wrigley argument is dangerous.

That was against Cubs pitching. And under the Jeff Blauser Principle (est. 1998), signing players because they’ve hit well in Wrigley can backfire badly.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 16, 2008 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

please be realistic

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 15, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i also wouldnt mind bobby abreu

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 15, 2008 2:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Abreu might not be a bad pickup. He's 34 now and his power

numbers probably have peaked. He has struggled to hit 20 hr in yankee stadium, supposedly a good LH hitters park. He’s not a dead pull hitter, which explains his somewhat low hr number. He’s a gap to gap hitter with good speed. He’s got a good arm and would probably do well in Wrigley.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 15, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HAPPY BARTMAN DAY!!!

"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."

by Cubster on Oct 15, 2008 2:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

-1

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 15, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No body has a sense of humor any more

"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."

by Cubster on Oct 15, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was an entire diary on this topic yesterday

I think the party line was fairly well articulated as: “Move along, there is nothing to see (or laugh at) here.”

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 15, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you.

That’s exactly how I feel.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure we do

But it wasn’t funny. No offense.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 15, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and a player who might be available in the offseason

Tampa has a glut of outifelders. If Baldelli’s health ever improved (and given his illness – his muscles fatigue quicker than normal) – he’d be a target for CF. However, I fear that his illness will keep him from being an everyday player.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 15, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the difference between us and them

They don’t have the 100 year monkey on their backs like we don’t, forget all the goat and curse bs. Not winning it at all since 1908 and not being there since 1945 has a huge psychological impact on the current team whether they admit it or not.

Someday we'll go all the way.

by Cubbinstrongsince86 on Oct 15, 2008 4:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you 100%.

So what’s the answer? How do they stop thinking about that? I agree, you can’t NOT think about that, fan or player.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hire a full time sports pyschologist

and Mandate that all of your players talk to him/her on an invidual basis and stage several group sessions throughout the year….

Sort of a Cubs AA….

Just thinking outside the box. If a team can have a medical/sports trainer, why not a Brain Trainer

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 15, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really hate...

…how the national TV media has been this postseason.

Last night they had a camera guy on the outside of one of Fenway’s exits in the 7th to film people walking out of the ballpark early.

Last night they had a camera guy on one of the ramps down from the seats filming fans walking out to leave with a total look of desperation. The camera was literally “in their faces”.

Last night the base-line cameras kept strategically switching to catch a couple-second view of a Boston fan with their hands covering their faces.

It seems that the drama of losing is what sells in the national media – at least from the media mogul’s perspective.

I don’t want to see that as a fan of any sport. Heartbreak, despair, depression, anger, defeat: bottom line is it sells.

My point is that the media will always have a field day with the Cubs, and it will continue to get worse as technology improves and time clicks off of the clock. The challenge will be greater each year to somehow circumvent the negativity and avoid it at all costs.

Maybe the answer is as simple as requiring the players to not read or follow the media coverage from September on, no radio show calls, not agree to any pre or post game interviews with idiots like whatever-his-bad-suit name is, and just completely shut yourselves off from the outside world until the job is done?

Celebrities seem to somehow do it, why can’t the players?

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 15, 2008 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my heart,

I thought that Sweet Lou was the answer, and would get us to the Promised Land……………and now I am bewildered and don’t have a clue. We apparently need some divine intervention to get the 100 year monkey off our backs.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Oct 15, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am with you here, AL

I don’t ever think about the 100 year monkey on the back – unless the announcers bring it up. I’m certain the team doesn’t think about this either. Sure, there’s pressure on the players to win, but I feel the team made some great strides this year, save the postseason. At least the wallets of tribune remain open.

I’ll go into this spring optimistic – and for my money, Piniella is THE GUY.

"Hey Hey, Holy Mackerel, No Doubt About It!"

by scottsdalecubs on Oct 15, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No pitchers?

I was ridiculed for the suggestion on another thread. But I would say that the key player may very well be a pitcher. If we look at the key ball players for recent WS teams, many of the heroes are starting pitchers.

I agree with what was said above about luck. Think about Aramis. On any given regular season day many of us would consider him the most “clutch” of the Cub hitters, with game winners against Milwaukee and the W. Sox engraved in Cub lore. Yet, in the postseason he suddenly becomes useless. I would chalk that up to two things, luck and to some degree nerves.

At this point, it seems like nerves are taking over the bats on this team. De Rosa said what we all were thinking after game 1, that game 2 was do or die. By that same logic, after the Loney grand slam, the rest of game 1 was pretty much do or die. All this “do or die” made the Cubs tight.

It is pretty clear though that pitching and hitting are not separate. If your SP is strong, your bats will be looser and more confident, and subsequently more effective.

As I look at this team, I still say that adding a true ace would be the best move for the Cubs. So, I would say that the one player (of those currently available) who would most improve the Cubs WS chances would be CC Sabathia.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Oct 15, 2008 5:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do or die for the Dodgers tonight

Let’s see how the Dodgers respond to “do or die”. Will it be Hamels shutting down the Dodger lineup or will Loney hit another grand slam this time off none other than Cole Hamels…

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 15, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What the Cubs need is

A sports psychologist. Seriously. When the majority of your team plays well below their capabilities you need to look at how the mental aspect is being handled. It’s one thing to lose, it’s quite another to self destruct like the Cubs did. I’m a big Piniella fan, but I think he needs to look at himself in the mirror. The way the team handled the 100 years drought and the past meltdowns was completely opposite as it should have been done. They added more pressure to themselves and it showed.

by Luis on Oct 15, 2008 5:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What you're looking for is somebody like "The Shooter", Rod Beck (may he rest in peace).

When I look at the current roster, the one player that I think comes closest to emulating Beck’s grit, determination and guile has already been mentioned – Reed Johnson. Again, that diving catch he made earlier in the year could have been the signature moment to a perfect year.

Soto has potential in this regard too. Takes a lot of moxie to go to the mound and bark at your pitchers – and he did that LAST year when he was just a late-season callup.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 15, 2008 9:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No Mystery

Teams create their own momentum. Scoring breeds confidence and confidence creates relaxed play. Our RH lineup was not only up against good RH pitchers but also exactly the kind of pitchers we do the worst against. Breaking ball, sinker type pitchers that paint. Soriano and Dome esp needed to try to work themselves into a FB count because they can’t hit the breaker/sinker.

Soriano at leadoff unfortunately led a poor approach and sort of set a tone. Dempster’s performance took away any momentuum DeRosa’s HR had and the Dodgers took over from there. They gained confidence and the Cubs lost confidence. That’s pretty much what happened. Not scoring and already down a game probably helped create the fielding debacle in game two. That’s all the Dodgers needed to finish us off.
They knew a beaten team when they saw one.

Tonight, the Dodgers were us. They were up against it and couldn’t get anything going so they made errors, left men on base, hit into rally killing DPs and lost easily. They looked like us but were the same team that swept us except they weren’t because now they were the ones playing tight.

I think a better leadoff hitter would give us a better chance at seizing the momentum early and I think a better game plan would have helped. Our players rarely got themselves in good hitter’s counts and didn’t force them to get the ball up. Even walks create some momentum by putting people on base. We just didn’t give ourselves enough of a chance.

by alexinSac on Oct 16, 2008 5:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the place to start for pitching

is a new coach
so long rothschild
hello leo mazzone

by cubsmansince91 on Oct 16, 2008 8:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Pitching Coach = Dr. Mike Marshall; Sparkplug/Hustle player = Shane Victorino

No question that Larry R. is NOT going to improve the pitching to Championship quality and depth.

Go outside the box for a refreshing and winning change – bring Dr. Mike to an organization that really needs him, and find ownership with the guts, smarts, and heart to truly support Dr. Mike!

Shane Victorino does nothing but play hard, smart, and constant hustle baseball in every game. He can cover right field better than Kosuke, and adds a great bat, speed on the bases, and leadership spark to a lineup.

Not sure how the Cubs pry him away from the Phils. Probably pitching and prospects plus a multi team trade.

Victorino should have been targeted for acquisition long before Kosuke was ever considered. Probably would have cost far lees three years ago too.

by GeneticCubsFan on Oct 17, 2008 2:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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