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What We've Got & What We Could Get:  Outfield

In 2008, Alfonso Soriano was the 8th best LF in baseball.  Kosuke Fukudome was about replacement level, not quite as good as Jay Bruce, but better than Gary Matthews, Jr., and we’re not even mentioning Austin Kearns.  As a Cub, Jim Edmonds was the 4th or 5th best CF, depending on how much you think Curtis Granderson’s defense gives him an edge over Edmonds’ slugging.  Reed Johnson was the perfect platoon partner.  The Felix Pie experiment lasted 4 days, although he was looking better at the end of the season.  Still, going into next year, Soriano could be the only one to come back.

Star-divide

I’m assuming Alfonso Soriano is not going to be traded.  I think there are some potential scenarios where Soriano goes to one of the two LA teams or to SF.  These are far-fetched and Jim Hendry can’t go into the post-season planning on them.  If Soriano is going to be traded, it will have to happen fast.  I don’t see it happening.  Anyway, Soriano is a good player.  ML leadoff hitters hit .275/.345/.415.  Soriano hit .280/.344/.532; so, yes, his OBP is just average for a lead-off man, but his SLG is exceptional.  We may not be able to count on him in the playoffs, but he will help us get there again.

I’m also assuming that Kosuke Fukudome is in Lou’s doghouse, a place which has been poorly named since doghouses have open doors and it’s possible to get back out of them.  Either way, Kosuke is not likely to have a starting job on the Cubs in ’09.  He and Pie could potentially battle for the CF job and that, in fact, might not be a bad use of resources.  More likely, neither are on the Opening Day 25-man.

 

So, what could we have in the OF in ’09?

 

The way I see it, the Cubs have two types of hitters they are likely pursuing and two positions in the OF they likely want to fill.  They want a Lefty Thumper who can hit 4/5 and they want a Lead-off Man, preferably lefty as well.  The latter is slim pickings.  Unless Ichiro becomes available (doubtful), we’re looking at Randy Winn or David DeJesus.  Each could give us .010-.020 pts of OBP on Soriano with fair SLG.  Each also has a downside which would make them a disappointment.  There’s also less likely guys like Shane Victorino, Coco Crisp, Nate McLouth, and Reggie Willits.  Conceivably, the Cubs could perceive Bobby Abreu as a leadoff man.  I tend to think that Lead-off Man’s going to come in the middle IF instead of here.

 

As for the Lefty Thumper, there are a lot of options and three main strategies I see the Cubs could follow.  There’s the Maddux’04 Strategy, signing an aging star who we wish we had a few years back.  There’s the Cruz’03 Strategy, acquiring a young guy with upside, but who the manager may dislike and force you to dump for pennies on the dollar.  Finally, there’s the Harden’08 Strategy, signing a top-shelf talent who has considerable injury risk.

 

The Maddux’04 Strategy seems most likely.  Under this strategy, the benefit is the relative certainty for production with the risk of age-related disappointment.  You tend to overpay and there’s little upside hope. 

 

Raul Ibanez is a guy Hendry has reportedly wanted for a while.  37 next year, Ibanez has been supremely consistent during his time with Seattle, hitting .293/.358/.479 this year and much like that for the previous four years.  That Seattle park is killer, but Ibanez’ numbers have only been better away in one year over the last five.  So, maybe Ibanez could get that SLG into the .500s in 2009, but given his age, I wouldn’t bet on it. 

 

One little hiccup on Ibanez is that Lou managed Ibanez before and when he did, Ibanez stunk.  Under Lou’s supreme genius guidance, Ibanez hit .241/.296/.383 from his age 24-28 years.  But, you know, that’s because Ibanez was an overrated prospect who was never going to hit or have a major league career. 

 

Bobby Abreu is a younger Raul Ibanez with more OBP skill and maybe a tick less SLG.  Abreu will cost more in both dollars and years.  He may also not make it to free agency.  If he does, it will be interesting to see which Hendry pursues between Ibanez and Abreu.

 

The Cruz’03 Strategy seems least likely.  Under this strategy, you buy in on a former prospect who has disappointed or failed to reach his full potential.  You buy low, but the risk is that you may not get a fully productive player; you may even get a disaster.  Hendry actually used this strategy a lot under Dusty Baker, from Matt Clement and Aramis Ramirez on the successful side to Alex Gonzalez and Todd Hollandsworth on the not-as-successful side.

 

Jeremy Hermida is the top target here.  He’s 24, has a ton of potential, and could easily have a better ’09 than any of the names we are discussing here, Soriano included.  He also hit .249/.323/.406 in ‘08.  He also has a history of J.D. Drew-like fragility.  The Fish apparently aren’t asking for much.

 

Jody Gerut had a great 2008 (.296/.351/.494 at PETCO).  He’s arb-eligible for the Friars; maybe they’d swap him, maybe they wouldn’t.  With both Gerut and Hermida, you have to ask if Lou would work with them.  Neither is expensive, however, and you could bring them both in, shuffle up the OF with Dome and/or someone else with potential and see what happens.

 

The Harden’08 Strategy is very possible and my preferred route if the Cubs double down on it.  Under this strategy you shoot for the moon, risking it on players whose injury-tendencies could leave you with a choice between Sam Fuld or Micah Hoffpauir in CF.  

 

If you go this route you have to look at Jim Edmonds.  Could Edmonds do it again in ’09?  I’m skeptical, but I can’t rule it out.  He poured everything he had into an offseason regimen to reinvent his body to play in 2008.  Is he going to do it again?  Can he do it again?  One of the interesting things you see when you look at Edmonds’ splits is that he really only had one good month of AVG – June.  Otherwise he was struggling to get to .250.  And yet, once he became a Cub, Edmonds was able to post astounding SLGs off very low AVGs.  Edmonds still has the power.  If he can keep his AVG up, he’s one of the best LH bats available.

 

Milton Bradley’s also out here.  He’s another guy who Hendry’s had rumored interest in before.  Bradley remains a big question mark because his career high games played is 141.  His second best season was this past one where he hit 126 games.  Other than that, he’s never played more than 100 games in a season.  If the Cubs want to roll the dice on Milton Bradley’s game, I’d be excited, but I’d also have a back-up plan – or two.  We could have that in Pie and/or Dome.  That said, Dome’s an expensive guy to sit on the bench and Pie may not be an option to Lou.

 

But what if you signed both Edmonds and Bradley?  Then you hope that at least one works out – and if both are healthy and productive come October, you’ve hit the jackpot.  Keep a solid backup and hope for the best.

 

Finally, there’s one more option, one we’ve talked to death in other threads:  Adam Dunn.  I really don’t think Dunn is Hendry’s type.  However, the one thing to point out on Dunn is he’s young for a free agent and may not require more than 4-5 years.  Unlike Soriano, Ibanez, Manny, or Abreu, Dunn should maintain his bat through the duration of any deal he gets.  He also could see his defense get even worse as he ages.

 

I haven’t really considered the right-handers, though there are some good ones, but that’s because I’m fairly certain Hendry’s not in the market for one.  Reed Johnson could easily come back.  If not him, we could see a Gabe Kapler or a Marlon Byrd.  Maybe Baldelli.  But I can’t believe we’re seriously considering Manny or Burrell.  I’m also hoping Griffey’s not an option.  He might be, though.

 

What do you think?

 

Poll
The Cubs #1 OF offseason target should be:
Bobby Abreu
10 votes
Milton Bradley
15 votes
David DeJesus
3 votes
Adam Dunn
18 votes
Jim Edmonds
8 votes
Jody Gerut
2 votes
Jeremy Hermida
36 votes
Raul Ibanez
3 votes
Reed Johnson
9 votes
Manny Ramirez
12 votes
Randy Winn
2 votes
Barry Bonds
6 votes

124 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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My preferred target is

Jeremy Hermida. Cost-controlled for a few years, which is helpful with our backloaded contracts. He still hit well away from home, and he’s got pop in his bat. I’d take the chance, and I think we can make a competitive bid (whether or not we could win is another issue, but sure, I think we can compete on Hermida, even accounting for the cost-controlled years dynamic).

by toonsterwu on Oct 19, 2008 11:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dunn

I’d like to see this just because we will need a replacement at 1B once DLee’s contract is up and i believe Dunn could fill that role, limiting his defensive blunders a tiny bit.

It would worry me though that our lineup would be a handicapped by power pitchers. I’m not too sure i could handle Sori and Dunn getting k’d 2-4 times a game.

by StlCUBBIE on Oct 20, 2008 1:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Edmonds

Pro-rated, his stats with the Cubs are very similar to his 2005 season in St. Louis. (With a few more walks and homers.)

If he can stay in shape this offseason, I’d roll the dice on one more year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 20, 2008 4:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that Edmonds is on the precipice.

I’d like rolling the dice on Edmonds, but it backs you in a corner for the following reasons:
  1. You can’t assume he can be your 4/5 bat, so you have to go get another one.
  2. You can’t assume he’ll be healthy to play CF all season, so you have to have a plausible ML CF somewhere on the 40-man as a backup.

That leaves you with Edmonds batting 6/7 and someone like Pie/Dome or a Dave Roberts type riding the bench, which isn’t fair to them. Indeed, you then begin to wonder – if we aren’t counting on Edmonds to bat 4/5, is he really a better bet to be a productive ML CF in 2009 than Felix Pie? What do you say to that question, Al?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd vote for continuing last year's platoon for one more year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 20, 2008 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

does

anybody think hermida, with a change of scenery can be the next quentin? I know thats probably asking for a lot.

Life's a garden, dig it.

by easyaspie on Oct 20, 2008 6:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hermida and Quentin are very comparable.

But Hermida already hit .296/.369/.501 over the course of a full season in FL when he was 23. So, Hermida’s done it at the ML level – which is why he’ll cost more in trade than Quentin who hadn’t. Hermida’s also a year and a half younger than Quentin and, in my view, potentially better.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One year doesnt equal "done it at the ML level"

This guy is all potential and fragile as you mentioned. His reputation was inflated b/c he hit a grandslam in his first AB. He just seems like the kind of guy we’d all get excited about, but in the end he wouldnt really make that much of an impact. We already have a young left capable of hitting .249/.323/.406

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But we don't have a young LH OF that Lou is willing to play.

Felix Pie is Lou’s new Raul Ibanez. What Jeremy Hermida is is the new Aramis Ramirez, the diamond in the rough. I’ll predict that if Hendry could trade Theriot for Hermida, in 2 years, people will say it’s the second coming of the Choi-DLee trade.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ramirez had already had a 30 HR 100 RBI season with Pittsburgh

Not exactly a diamond in the rough, Hermida hasnt really done anything to warrant this kind of hype.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess you're comfortable writing off his entire 23-year old season

 as well as his minor league track record and the scouting reports on him. Aramis’ age 23 season was not quite as good as Hermida’s and his age 24 season was nearly as bad as Hermida’s age 24 season. I’m working off of OPS+ and triple slash stats, though, not RBIs, so that may account for the difference in our perspective.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are a ton of Hermidas out there...

Hype, superb minor league numbers, but plagued by injuries and inconsistencies in the majors….he just seems more likely to do that, why else would the Marlins be looking to unload a cheap, controllable player/contract?

A drop of 50 points in avg, 40 in slg and almost 100 in OBP is worrisome, especially combined with his history of nagging injuries.

My point was, Ramirez had proven himself (albeit in one year) to be capable of being an impact major league bat, whereas Hermida has yet to do so. Pie has had excellent minor league statistics, almost as good as Hermida, with the exception being Jeremys higher OBP, but they were reasonably close in avg and slugging, in fact Pie had a higher avg and slugging percentages, although he had more at bats.

I’ll give you the fact that he has tremendous potential, and perhaps getting out Dolphins stadium can help, but his record thus far suggest very little he can produce like Ramirez, minor league accomplishments not with standing.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hermida is just as proven as Ramirez was...

I think your argument is weak here.

Here are Hermida’s career numbers to this point:
1279 AB, 75 2B, 44 HR, .269/.342/.436 (.778 OPS)

Here were Ramirez’s numbers at the time we got him:
2061 AB, 117 2B, 76 HR, .263/.306/.435 (.741 OPS)

You seem to be basing your argument entirely on the idea that Ramirez had at least had one big season. Well, here’s Ramirez’s one big season:
603 AB, 40 2B, 34 HR, .300/.350/.536 (.886 OPS)

For Hermida, it’s this:
429 AB, 25 2B, 18 HR, .296/.369/.501 (.870 OPS)

That’s really similar. And that takes into account the fact that Hermida played half his games in that cavernous Florida park, where he had a .785 OPS. His numbers were comically good on the road that year (.324/.401/.548).

And you say that the drop in production is worrisome for Hermida. Well, what about the drop in production for Ramirez? He went from an OPS of .886 in his good season to a .666 OPS the next year (220 point drop!) and a .778 OPS at the time of the trade (still a .100 point drop!).

I’m not saying Hermida is a sure-fire thing by any means, but he is absolutely as proven as Ramirez. The injury risk is really the only concern I have for the guy, as he’s topped .850 in OPS on the road in each of the last two years.

by SouthernCub on Oct 21, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a question

Why Cruz03? The only Cruz on the Cubs 2003 roster was Juan, and he was a Cub farmhand. Doesn’t seem very parallel to getting a guy like Hermida. Am I missing something?

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Oct 20, 2008 7:39 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Juan Cruz, indeed,

was once a top 10 prospect. He could have been the Marmol of the ’03 Cubs had a different manager developed him. He could have been the bridge to Borowski. Instead we dumped him and watched him blossom elsewhere.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Other lefties available

J.D. Drew. Not that I want him, just sayin’.

Travis Buck. Very similar to Hermida. His dropoff in 2008 was mostly due to injury, IMHO. Oakland may also be looking to deal Huston Street. But Pie and Ceda might get you Buck.

Brian Giles. Probably not willing to approve a deal, anyway.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Oct 20, 2008 7:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why do you assume Drew is available?

He had a really good year for the Red Sox, who don’t really have another RF that I know of, and is signed for another few years.

by SouthernCub on Oct 21, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Fukudome is going to be back.

As much as I have huge doubts about his ability to succeed at the level a 48M dollar deal requires, I cant see him just giving up unless he’s completely miserable in the States. But Im sure he has a sense of pride and a strong work ethic, so it doesnt seem likely he’ll just give up and a trade isnt likely either.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 8:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bradley and Dunn :)

Soriano
Bradley
Lee
Dunn
Ramirez
Soto
Derosa
Scrappy

wow

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 8:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, that would be a really bad defensive team.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 20, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it would be absolutly atrocious.....

but it would make up for it in balls flying over sheffield

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing Raul Ibanez, or reasonable facsimile, is the target

A veteran left-handed hitting run producer who can play the outfield corners (or at least TRY to play the outfield corners). Ibanez is 37 years old and considered more of a DH type. But he has played the outfield some. I think he fits a model of serving as platoon mate in the outfield. Maybe straight up with Mark DeRosa, with DeRo playing 2nd base against right handers.

That leaves Kosuke, Reed Johnson and Jim Edmonds (who I think will be back unless he retires) to play center field.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 8:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ibanez, unfortunately, is not a platoon type in the Cubs mind, I'll bet.

Ibanez is a “run-producer” and a potential 3/4/5 hitter. My hope is that Ibanez wouldn’t want to come back to play for Lou and Hendry has to go a different route.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what about little mike fontenot

no one seems to talk about this kid’s upside and how he can impact an ’09 run. The kid sat on the bench most of the year and still performed exceptionally well.

by jesus figeroa on Oct 20, 2008 11:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...

I like Mike Fontenot too. But thing is he was very selectively used in 2008 to the benefit of his performance totals. Also, he is a liability at 2nd base no matter how you slice it and doesn’t offer up the versatility to play other positions. Therefore his highest and best use is probably serving the role he served in 2008.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

liability?

Fontenot fielding stats.
  
 SEASON TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT
2008 Chi Cubs 2B 82 49 498.2 245 101 143 1 27 - - - 4.40 .996

.996 is pretty damn good! my personal opinion is this guy should be playing everyday! move derosa to ss and dump theroit! mike had more rbi in less ab’s than roit.
 
 

by bassncubs10 on Oct 20, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so......

mike started 49 games this year and had 1 error, i think that means he is not really a defensive liability?

by bassncubs10 on Oct 20, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i thought i saw somewhere

that fontenot was in the top 10 among 2B in bill james’ plus/minus system with like a +11 rating. so he made 1 error in 82 games and made 11 plays more than the average 2B, all while posting an OPS over .900.

why wouldn’t we want him to play every day, or at least, be the strong side of a platoon?

by circuitclout on Nov 1, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Dunn...

I don’t know… none of these options are really turning me on. I like Dunn because of his HR’s and his OBP. I don’t know though. Maybe a trade would be a better option than a Free Agent sigining.

One thing to note, if the Cubs signed Dunn, I think Lou would be on him a lot to straighten up his defensive game a little.

I don’t know… If nothing better comes along, maybe it’s best to true a repeat of Edmonds/Johnson. If they are stinking up CF next season, maybe just hurry and make a trade ASAP.

by TheHawkRules on Oct 20, 2008 1:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i like Raul.... however i dont know if he keepos up the production

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 1:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I suppose I'd like an 09 outfield of:

Soriano LF, Johnson/Dome (or Pie if he’s kept) CF platoon, Milton Bradley RF, with Bradley getting rest from Johnson, Domer, Dero, whoever is not in CF that day. Bradley has the pop to slide in at 3-4, and may have the type of attitude that will allow him to not take the pressure too seriously that seems to get to the rest of the team so much in the playoffs.
Adding Milton on a 2 year deal, I’d love to see this lineup, (although we won’t):
1. Derosa
2. Lee
3. M. Bradley
4. Ramirez
5. Soriano
6. Soto
7. Dome/Johnson
8. Theriot

by philadelphiacub on Oct 20, 2008 2:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Milton Bradley??

Good grief. This guy is a lifetime loser and a cancer who has been scary problem child for every organization he has ever played for. While we’re at it why don’t we see if we can acquire Pacman Jones for the Dallas Cowboys and convert him to shortstop.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pass on that guy.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i love pacman

going to strip clubs with him that is

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make it rain, baby!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Luke Scott?

Al’s post today campaigned for Luke Scott. Scott’s an underrated ballplayer, but at age 30, he just had his second straight year of declining stats. He hit .257/.336/.472 and .269/.346/.492 versus righties.

With quite serious respect to Al, I have to wonder what makes Scott worth trading assets to get when you can just sign Raul Ibanez who had the same numbers against RHP in a tougher park. Sure, Scott’s younger, but he’s also a late-bloomer who may already be on the downslope of his career.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 8:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

For one thing....

… Scott is seven years younger than Ibanez. You say he’s a late bloomer, which I think is true. How can you be a late bloomer AND on the downside at the same time?

Ibanez, at 37, has the chance of declining at any moment, which would probably be as soon as the Cubs signed him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 21, 2008 4:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's precisely because he's a late bloomer than I don't expect a long career

In comparison, here are some of the other hitters the recent Astros have seen bloom under their watch:

Morgan Ensberg – productive career started age 27 and ended age 30
Jason Lane – started age 27 and ended age 28
Mike Lamb – started age 28 and ended age 31

I’ll be curious to hear how others respond – who do you think is more likely to have an unproductive 2009 – Scott or Ibanez?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2008 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because three Astros failed...

… doesn’t mean Scott will.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 21, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not so much that they were Astros

as that they were late bloomers.

Scott’s hardly the worst option. I wonder, though, if the trade cost for Hermida who has much more upside is really going to be that much greater than the trade cost dealing with Angelos.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might be right.

As I said yesterday, I think Ricky Nolasco will be on the block. If the Cubs could make a big enough offer to get him AND Hermida, that’d solve a couple problems at once.

The problem is, of course, getting the sorts of players the Marlins would want. They won’t take high salaried guys — that’s the whole reason for getting rid of Nolasco.

You could start with Sean Marshall and Felix Pie, but it’d take more than that. Can you add to that?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Fish are rumored to be trading Uggla, too

so they may have need for a 2B – Theriot or Fontenot could interest them. It depends on how much they value Hermida and how much they’d value one of the Cajuns.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With aging curves, you do tend to see mediocre players have shorter careers.

Now, that’s a question of whether they decline faster or they just don’t have as far to fall.

As for Scott – he’s probably going to be around 7 runs above average next season on offense – or about where he was this year. I don’t know if that’s really much better than what we got out of Fukudome, once defense is considered.

by cwyers on Oct 21, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you can find a RF with some power...

… and who can play defense, then Fukudome could be made part of a CF platoon.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't Orioles' Park a hitter's paradise?

How does it compare to Wrigley?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 21, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix Pie will "make the ballclub out of spring training"

Full quote:

“We feel Felix is going to be a good player,” Hendry said. “You’re talking about a 23-year-old kid. He’ll be an out-of-options player. Without any kind of injury or significant change, he’ll have a very good chance to make the ballclub out of Spring Training.”

Rule #1 when planning to trade a prospect: Say how certain you are that he’ll help your own team in the coming year. Even the quote itself allows for the “significant change” [read: “trade” possibility.

That said, if the Cubs plan on giving Kosuke another shot in 2009 – and the Muskat article sounds like that’s the plan, I won’t be surprised at all if the Cubs 2009 OF looks like this:

Soriano LF
Lefty3/4/5Hitter RF
Pie/Dome/RJ CF battle for playing time

At any rate, there’s no hint of what Al is suggesting about a Dome buyout.

The article does not seem high on Edmonds’ chances of returning, imo.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 8:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't see Edmonds being brought back.

Which is kind of disappointing. But with Pie and Kosuke already under contract, I can’t see the Cubs signing another left handed hitting outfielder.

by kanderber on Oct 20, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, they're signing another LH OF - I'm sure of it.

As I read the things we’re hearing from Hendry and rumor-mongers with an ear to the Cubs – the LH slugger is a reoccuring theme. Pie can be traded. Kosuke can be benched. They want someone to bat between Lee-Ramirez-Soto and maybe Sori and DeRosa, too.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To elaborate on a post I wrote a few days back:

I suggested Hendry go after Brian Giles, and while there is not all that much of a chance that he leaves San Diego, if he does he would be great for the Cubs. Many commented about how much he would hurt the defense, but to those I say +20. Thats his plus/minus score from the recently released fielding bible. He was great defensively and that was in a cavernous park. I think he and his solid power/great OBP would be an outstanding fit for the team.

by dakoose on Oct 20, 2008 11:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But it won't happen.

Giles vetoed a trade to the Red Sox last year, which would have put him in the playoffs and taken him off a miserable last place team. He lives in San Diego and doesn’t want to leave.

So it’s pointless to even discuss this.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 21, 2008 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Giles was a good ballplayer -- 5 years ago

Why on earth would we want a significantly washed up Brian Giles? The guy is old and useless. And hasn’t been the same ever since they started testing for steroids and his previous puffiness disappeared (hint, hint).

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 21, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats arguably the dumbest thing I have read since joining this site.

I can understand the points made about him wanting to stay in San Diego, but it is just plain out stupid to say he is useless. For starters, he was +20 on defense in Petco this year. That alone makes him useful. On top of that, he was an outstanding hitter this year:
Brian Giles, 38: 147 g, .306/.398/.456, 2.52 WPA/LI. He had an OPS of 854(Soriano OPS:.876) and an EQA of .320. BP has his translated slugging percentage at .526. That would give him a better SLG% than Aramis Ramirez. Giles played at an All Star level this year.
I understand it would be very difficult to bring him in, but if it were possible to I can’t come even close to understanding why so many are against bringing him to Chicago.

by dakoose on Oct 21, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he's 39 years old, for one thing.

And I don’t see the point of discussing someone who will absolutely not, no way, not now, not ever, approve a trade to the Cubs.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 21, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't that same argument (the age part) apply to...

Edmonds? I mean, at least with Giles, he’s consistently hit well away from San Diego.

I’m not saying that we should be discussing Giles (I agree with you that he’s not going to opt to leave his home and come to Chicago). But I wouldn’t use the age argument against Giles and then recommend retaining Edmonds, even as just the majority member of a platoon.

by SouthernCub on Oct 21, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We already know what we're getting in Edmonds.

I agree, there’s a risk in signing Edmonds again.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 21, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Let’s put a lid on all of the Brian Giles talk. He doesn’t want to leave California and I don’t want him. He hasn’t shown any special talent to transform a team into a winner in the post season and he would be a roll player at best on this Cubs team. Enough already.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 21, 2008 10:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd prefer to go on the younger end

God bless what Edmonds did for us this year, but he really looked drained at the end of the year. I just don’t think he has enough left in the tank. Ibanez is a solid guy, but I prescribe to the thoughts of posters that understand how backloaded the Cubs are with some contracts. Hermida is intriguing in this way. Plus, the Marlins need to trade away salary still. Salary that is marginal to the Cubs. In this case, do we have enough chips that the Marlins would want? That is the question. Especially if you expand it to include Uggla.

by Nibbles on Oct 21, 2008 9:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We shouldn't want Uggla.

Al wants to get Nolasco back. I’m happy with a Theriot-Hermida swap.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not totally committed to the Luke Scott idea.

If you could get Hermida AND Nolasco — that’d be great. But it’d cost quite a bit (in terms of players).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 22, 2008 4:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dan Uggla is a one-dimensional player who makes Mike Fontenot look like Ryne Sandberg in the field

A big NO.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 21, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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