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All A-Loney: Cubs Lose Game 1 To Dodgers 7-2

Here's the very first thing I want all of you to remember this morning, as fans: do NOT give in to the temptation to think, "Here we go again!"

There are two things that truly bothered me about the Cubs' truly awful 7-2 loss to the Dodgers last night.

First, it didn't feel like a playoff game -- not in the least. There wasn't the usual electricity you feel in the stands even before the game. Now, maybe you could chalk this up to the odd starting time, but that's not really an excuse; the park was filled at the first pitch, but there seemed no excitement, no buzz, no anticipation, no sense that this wasn't just another game on, say, May 1 instead of October 1. Even after Mark DeRosa's windblown homer that gave the Cubs a 2-0 lead, there wasn't the hiked-up level of excitement you'd expect. The scoreboard operators must have figured it was a regular-season game, too, because they kept adjusting everyone's batting average each at-bat as if their previous AB in the game had been just another regular-season AB. There also wasn't any real buzz on the street, although the city set up barricades on Waveland and Sheffield, expecting people to be sitting outside -- there weren't many more than the usual crowd on Waveland during the game. One guy spent several innings writing "GO CUBS GO" in huge letters in chalk on the street, but that was about it for anything unusual.

Second, this one's on Lou. Seriously -- if you have two pitchers (Sean Marshall and Jason Marquis) who are starters or pitchers used to going extended periods, on the roster for the specific purpose of using them in long relief, why wouldn't you use them that way on a night when it was clear that your starter had absolutely no command? This is something Lou did all year during the time when he had Jon Lieber in the bullpen -- refusing to use Lieber in the very long-relief situations that he was specifically on the roster to fill.

Ryan Dempster, who is a standup guy (and ditch the full beard, Ryan -- it looks awful), would probably be the first to tell you that he sucked last night. Part of the problem was home plate umpire Dale Scott's bizarre strike zone -- pitches that appeared right down the middle were called balls, while breaking stuff in the dirt got called as strikes -- which might have made Dempster try to adjust, getting him out of his normal rhythm and as the night went on, generating more and more pitches out of the zone (57 balls out of 109 pitches).

But Lou stuck with him. And as it turned out, probably two batters too long. After Dempster walked Manny Ramirez, his fifth free pass of the game, even though the Cubs still had a 2-0 lead at the time, Lou should have yanked him, especially with the lefthanded hitting Andre Ethier and James Loney coming up next. Marshall was ready to go and there were two out; we figured maybe Lou had fallen asleep in the cold. Even giving Lou the benefit of the doubt because of his decades of experience, once Ethier walked, loading the bases, Marshall should have been in there.

So this one's on you, Lou. You've done great things for this franchise -- but not last night. It didn't help that Marshall, Jeff Samardzija and Marquis all allowed single runs in their relief work; this turned a possibly workable 4-2 deficit into a 7-2 blowout, the exclamation point of which was Greg Maddux' appearance in the 9th inning. Maddux, the only Dodger who got cheers on pregame introduction (loud boos were reserved for LA's other ex-Cubs, Nomar Garciaparra and Juan Pierre), received only tepid applause when introduced to begin the 9th, possibly the last time Cub fans will see him pitch in Wrigley Field.

The other culprits are the highly-paid Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez, who vanished in last year's division series and who went a combined 1-for-9 last night. Frankly, I was surprised any balls went out of the yard last night with the wind blowing in the way it was; DeRosa's blast was actually blown out because the wind was sort of blowing across from center to right field; the other homers cut through the teeth of the wind, including Manny's... and that one's on Lou, too, because none of us could believe he left Marshall in to pitch to Manny, among the biggest mismatches I've ever seen in a playoff game. Incidentally, perhaps only funny moment last night was provided by Manny; he threw the warmup ball into the LF bleachers just below us going into the bottom of the 9th. It was promptly flung back on the field; Manny ducked (the ball wasn't really that close to him). If you're going to the game and thinking about doing this -- don't. The thrower was promptly ejected, because throwing anything but a HR ball back isn't allowed.

So. What have the Cubs lost here? Not the series -- there's still time, although it's at a premium in a short series. The Dodgers swiped home-field advantage, essentially; the Cubs can steal it back by winning the next two games. I note that the best team in baseball, the Angels, also lost their first game at home to the Red Sox. Carlos Zambrano -- you've got to be on your game tonight. No histrionics, no stomping around, no bat-breaking, just your best stuff, like you had on September 14 in Milwaukee.

Finally, a word about the game threads. I have heard from a few people telling me how nasty it got in there. I do understand frustration and wanting to "get it out". All I ask is that you keep the profanity down and most importantly, don't attack others.

This isn't 2003 or 2007 or any of the other years where the Cubs failed. Remember what all of us have been saying, almost all year? This feels different; this team is different. They've come back from crushing defeats before. There is a lot of baseball still to be played by the Chicago Cubs in 2008. Onward, because the best IS yet to come.

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First!

Cubs are going to wine the next 3.

by bergs55 on Oct 2, 2008 8:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Do you think these are the Pirates

they’re playing?

Maybe they will “wine” or “whine” in the next three…

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Might I recommend

a bold Merlot?

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I prefer Pinot Grigio, myself.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha.

Sideways?

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whoops :)

If they don’t win, I’ll be hitting the wine hard…

by bergs55 on Oct 2, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

MD 20/20?

You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on Oct 2, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Oct 2, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Night Train

"Can that be used in a sentence now as a swear word? as in "That was the most White Sox White Soxing call I’ve ever White Sox seen in all my years of watching this White Sox game. White Sox it all to hell!" Weeghman Park

by derv on Oct 2, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

That Night Train's a mean wine

"Years of academy training, wasted"--Buzz Lightyear (not a flying toy)

by spoiledcubbage on Oct 2, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOVE THAT STUFF!

AND I CAN NEVER GET ENOUGH!

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by daver on Oct 2, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's the price?

50 THRICE!

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Oct 2, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you just pour it on and they dissolve?

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Think the Germans invented it

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let's win the SECOND game!!

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 2, 2008 8:25 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

+2

Season’s on the line, hate that I have to type that so early in the playoffs.

by southloop on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

not yet

the boston red sox lost the first two games of a five-game series against oakland in 2003, came back and swept the back 3 to win the series.

Not something you want to try to do, but there is precedent.

The season will be on the line when and if the Cubs face an elimination game. Not before.

by SuperContext on Oct 2, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe they lost the first 2 in Oakland

and then went back to Boston and won the next 2 games.

With the Cubs starting out at home, it’s imperative, they win tonight.

Hopefully, the Cubs will win tonight so we won’t be talking about going down 0-2.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 2, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I sure hope youre right

I just cant help but shake the "here we go again " feeling b/c last nites performance was so different from the regular season, it just seemed they were rushing in all aspects of the game…..I suspect that feeling was echoing throughout the stadium, leading to the libray-esque atmosphere

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 2, 2008 8:26 AM CDT reply actions  

Al, you are spot on...

My 2 gripes was the crowd and Lou… and you covered them both. Seems like Lou forgets how to manage in these 5 game series.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 8:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Thanks Al,

reading your post made me feel a whole lot better this morning. I think Z is going to be on a mission tonight. Here is to a Cub win tonight!!

by 23Ryno on Oct 2, 2008 8:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Al--your recap is very heartening

and I agree with much of it, but sometimes it hurts so much to love this team that I wish I didn’t. But it’s a codpendant dysfunctional relationship and I can’t stop it. Doggone this stuff is painful sometimes

Z has said this is his team. tonight he gets to rpove it—one way or the other.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 8:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Thanks Al

For stopping by last night, good to finally meet you. A very kind gesture on your part

Let’s go out and get them tonight and even this thing up, 1-1 with Harden on the mound for Game 3 doesn’t sound so bad does it?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Nice to meet you and your dad, too.

Sorry you had to sit through such an awful game. We’ll get ’em tonight.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Harden

Isn’t Harden our most consistent SP? I wondered that when the rotation was set — he will be limited to one start in this series. Wouldn’t he be a more reliable start tonight than Z?

by SETX Cub on Oct 2, 2008 8:30 AM CDT reply actions  

he's limited to one start

because of his arm, not the schedule.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

He can't even pitch on five days' rest?

I understand he’s been iffy on normal rest, which is four days off in between starts, but if he went last night he could have pitched game 5 on five days’ rest. I thought he did well with that extra day.

This kind of bugs me, unless he’s taking more time to receover now than in July.

I know the previous poster was talking about Harden going tonight, not last night. Just frustrated because Harden was my original pick for Game 1 due to the team’s winning percentage when he starts.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

If he pitched game 1

I suppose he could pitch game 5. Other than that, tho, he’s not available twice in a five game series.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have faith in Z...

But the offense is what worries me. Lou kept bringng up the starting pitching and relief work during his press conference last night, did he even mention the offense?

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 2, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Sigh...

I felt lifeless last night after that Grand Slam… once I saw Dempster’s pitch count was about 99 going into the 5th I had a feeling that we were in trouble, unfortunately it was right. Unfortunately this feeling is carrying into the morning, although by gametime it will turn into excitement and anticipation. Losing Game 1 of a 5 game series sucks though.

by GoCubbies34 on Oct 2, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Game was borderline tragic...

I have never been more deeply disappointed and saddened by a one game performance. The Cubs failed on all cylinders last night. Alfonso Soriano continued with the disapperance act of last year’s playoffs against Arizona. The offense overall reverted to it’s dysfunctional and inept way. Ryan Dempster puckered up big time. The achilles heel of this team, middle relief, reared it’s ugly head.

Give credit to Joe Torre and the Dodgers. They executed and played a smart ballgame even though, like Arizona, they are allegedly “inferior” on paper.

Very worried about today’s game. Carlos Zambrano has become an unstable wildcard. And you just know that Torre and the Dodger hitters are going to try and get inside his head. I wish Rich Harden or Ted Lilly were going today. Soriano MUST show up because it has been proven that he is the catalyst that makes everything go on this offense.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Stat of the day

the winner of game 1 in the NLDS has won 23 of 26 series. This ain’t over, but if history is any guide, then the Cubs are down to about a 5% shot in this.

/runs to corner and puts arms over head.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought it was 24 of 28...

One of those four teams who pulled it off was none other than the 2003 Marlins.

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 2, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Either way

it ain’t good. But it makes little difference now. If they don’t win tonight, then it’s over.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

OTOH...

… AL teams split (12-14) after winning the first game. These numbers scream out “small sample size”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

That actually is the best news I've heard yet

And gives some confidence to me. The Dodgers are not a better team than the Cubs and as someone said above, 1-1 with Harden in that massive stadium in Chavez ravine, and I like our chances.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

The whole 24 of 28 stat is not that frightening (to me).

we can add it to the list of amazing accomplishments for this year’s club when they win this series.
That being said, we really need the good Z tonight.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel

by Blue W on Oct 2, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope, the not winning the WS for 100 years is much more daunting.

All we have to do is win 3 games, they’ve done that LOTS of times all year long.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 2, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

True...

More pressure, that’s all this team needs. sigh

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 2, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

The playoffs are all about pressure and what team can handle it best.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al- your feeling about tonight's game?

Feeling positive, negative, someplace in between?

(By the way, I read your post game 7 2003 nlcs post yesterday before the game. I have to admit, there was almost tears; I had forgotten how terrible I felt for about three days)

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm always positive, as you know.

But Z had better pitch the game of his life tonight.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I feel strongly that Z is going to pitch well tonight.

Hopefull, the offense will be able to get going.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

If he doesnt there needs to be a quick hook!

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 2, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

True stat, but....

As someone on another blog pointed out, frequently this is because the team losing the first game pitched their ace in that game and then it was downhill from there. I would argue that Z (if he is on), Harden and Lilly are, on a given night, going to give you as good an opportunity to win the game as Demp.

Yeah, it sucks to lose the home field advantage but I am not sure how much of an advantage the Dodger’s park is for them.

Come back in off the ledge folks.

by jking79 on Oct 2, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dodgers play in a pitcher's park

and I still think our pitchers are better.
Advantage = Cubs.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel

by Blue W on Oct 2, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

if we're going to win this thing

we’re going to have to defy a whole lot of history along the way. Adding another stat to the mix isn’t a big deal

The Red Sox busted things up by coming back from down 0-3

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

+100

trends are gonna have to not mean anything for this team.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

If it’s stats you want, over the last 99 years, the Cubs have won exactly zero World Series championships, which translates into 0. So, if the Cubs chances are really at 5 as you suggest, I kind of like those odds.

History isn’t necessarily a guide to anything. Remember that.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Oct 2, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

If that's the most disappointed you've ever been,

you must not have been a Cub fan for very long.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 2, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you on Soriano... He needs to get it going.

he definitely sets the tone… and Lou, PLEASE, if you’re going to play Dome, bat him 8th.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Batters 1 through 5

cannot go 2-19 with two walks. Simple as that.

by TC Cubby on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Question:

Would you even have visited the site this morning had we won?

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe Felix Pie

will come through with a big clutch hit.

He’s on the post-season roster, you know.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I told you Hoff shoulda made the roster!

Pie didn’t do anything last night!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

guess sitting

bench warmer!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

If the Cubs can win the next 2 games

they will be fine. If not, I fear this will be the end of the line. If Z can win tonight (and let’s face it, if he doesn’t this is over anyway), then I think Harden will mow them down on Saturday and we can take this thing.

Al is exactly right, there was no reason to leave Dempster out there last night. Period. Not with a fully rested bullpen.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Piniella has little faith in his middle relief

Can’t say that I blame him.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

don't disagree

but when a guy has walked SEVEN, you might not need to lose some faith in him…

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, this ballgame was lost by failure on all cylinders, not just Ryan Dempster

The offense was horrificly bad. I will criticize Lou Piniella harshly on a few things, and that is the presence of Kosuke in the lineup and Ryan Theriot buried in the # 8 hole. Theriot is the one Cub who works the count and has been the ignitor. Also, I don’t care if DeRosa’s ankle is troublesome…Mike Fontenot MUST be inserted into the lineup with DeRosa moving to right.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

the majority of the games we won

against the Dodgers this year we scored less than 4 runs. Not saying 2 was going to be enough to win it by any means, and the offense certainly did let us down. But Dempster’s the main culprit for last night

His inability to throw strikes led to 4 big runs and then led to the middle relief having to be used. If Dempster throws strikes its a different story

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, the only solution to poor starting pitching in this series is going to Carlos Marmol ridiculously early in a ballgame...

Is that the right thing to do? Probably not. Do you burn through Marmol in hopes that you can mount a comeback offensively? Marmol can’t pitch multiple innings every game of the series. But it sure seems like that is going to be needed.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

i dont think you do either

but Marshall only allowed 1 ER in 2 1/3 innings and it was a monster shot by Manny. He struck out 4. He was actually fine in his role

the problem was Dempster

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Manny

also hit that ball off his shoe tops. No one else in the league gets that ball in the air, IMO.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 2, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I couldnt believe he connected on that pitch

"Can that be used in a sentence now as a swear word? as in "That was the most White Sox White Soxing call I’ve ever White Sox seen in all my years of watching this White Sox game. White Sox it all to hell!" Weeghman Park

by derv on Oct 2, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought about that too.

Bring Marmol in the game in the 5th get Loney, you still have a 2 run lead and who knows what happens.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

there was nothing wrong with Marshall's performance

a great hitter reached out for a low and away pitch and did something that very few can do. I don’t fault Sean or Lou for that matchup.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought it was a pretty good pitch.

It didn’t look like a mistake, but if it was a mistake, you usually don’t mind it being in the dirt. Manny just reached down and grabbed a hold of it.
From what I have heard, he’s a pretty alright hitter.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel

by Blue W on Oct 2, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Crap I agree with Blue Mike

I don’t think anyone thinks less of Lou as in game manager then me but no I don’t think Dempster should have been pulled and certainly NOT for Marmol. Dempster was struggling BADLY but I don’t see how you pull a starting pitcher in the 5th inning BEFORE he has given up a run. Suppose Lou had pulled him and put in Marquis or Marshall or even Marmol who then gave up 2 or 3 hits resulting in the same 4 runs ? I am sure folks would claim Dempster should not have been pulled. It is easy to say we should have pulled him cause he gave up the grannie but he could easily have gotten out of that inning.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 2, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

what kills me about the Slam

Was that he had Loney 1-2- he had struck Ethier an inning or two before in an other tough situation.

The crowd was weird where I was sitting- one group in front of me admitted to stealing a sign from an old lady in the bathroom (WTF?) and some starched shirt tried to kick me out of my season seats because they were his ‘season tickets’. He was threatening to call an usher but wouldn’t talk directly to me only to the fans around me.

My take was a lot of season ticket holders sold their seats to finance the playoff ticket outlay.

The crowd was pretty loud throughout the game- but not ‘electric’ as in the past. I’ll blame the early start for part of it- and the slam took a lot of the crowd out of the game.

Of all the walks given up last night- the most egregious offense was walking Derek Lowe twice – this really elevated his pitch count having to face some good hitters with runners on.

Also (Silver lining) Furcal looked like he can be taken advantage of at SS- real stiff out there.

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I gotta agree.

Demp looked awful, no doubt. But he’s had a knack for getting out of those situations. If it’s the seventh and we have a guy like marmol warming then absolutely yank him. But the guys suited for middle relief has been horrid the past month, and last night was no exception.

by shoemile on Oct 2, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't pitching king?

So shouldnt it then be a starting pitcher who gives up 7 walks be a major part of the failure?

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, because

those critical catches Dome made didn’t matter a damn bit.

Sheesh.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster was looking into the dugout after he walked Manny then again after Either

almost as if to say, “hey Lou, I ain’t got it tonight.”

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw that

and thought to myself “where is the Lou from earlier in the year who yanked Cotts after walking ONE batter?” Dempster wanted out, and it looked like he would get out of it after getting Loney to 0-2.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought so too.

But Dempster was gassed and you could tell by the pitch Loney hit out of the park. Left it FAT in the zone.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll say this again....

Lou Piniella has very little faith in his bullpen beyond Carlos Marmol and Kerry Wood. I don’t think you bring in Marmol in the 5th inning. Maybe today you do because it is literally do or die time.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just think he manages these 5 gamers like they are 7 games.

I bet some manager would have brought him in. Hell, he brought him into the 7th last year when Z was rolling.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

That wouldn't have been a bad idea.

Even just to pitch to one lefthanded hitter.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks Al. I knew I wanted to read your post before we leave for the drive down

from MN to Wrigley for tonite’s game……..

GO CUBS GO……….

GoCubsGo

by MinnesotaFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions  

The person who threw the ball at Manny was arrested for doing so...

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008/10/fan-arrested-for-throwing-ball-at-manny-ramirez.html

Most certainly a bad idea.

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 2, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions  

Was there last night, too

and re the crowd, Al: the reason is simple:
The team has to prove once and for all that it is not going to fail once again. Walking away after watching that terrible performance, I completely understand the sentiment. Yes, the REGULAR season was great, but once again the high hopes in the opening game of the NLDS that we’ve all ben waiting for was an utter flop. IF the team makes it to the NLCS, you will see the “elecricity”, imo. Or even Game 5 in the NLDS.

This however, was the key in your open:
“if you have two pitchers (Sean Marshall and Jason Marquis) who are starters or pitchers used to going extended periods, on the roster for the specific purpose of using them in long relief, why wouldn’t you use them that way on a night when it was clear that your starter had absolutely no command?”

One batter too long, maybe two. Bring in another pitcher, get out of the inning with a run or two – we’re still in it. These are the instances when in my mind – Lou=Dusty.

However, as I have posted several times, Derek Lowe kills us, and he did it again last night.

And Soriano is nothing but a sham in the Post Season. An overpaid, hopping, disappointment.

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 8:36 AM CDT reply actions  

No excuse on the crowd...

The White Sox fans put us to shame in their one game play off against the Twins. I was expecting that type of energy. The grand slam put us down by 2 and we were still in the game yet you could hear a pin drop in there last night.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

At home I was puzzled by lack of crowd excitement too

as I was bouncing off the walls and screaming at the TV. I think it could have been Dempster’s obvious & early lack of control that caused a nervousness, which added to a general unease about the game that shut people down. I expect with more on the line today with an emotional Z on the mound that the Wrigley partisans will be a little more active & vocal today.

by JFCubFan on Oct 2, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very odd

One of the quietest games I have ever been to. And I go a lot. Before the game, when we were winning and when we were losing. VERY odd.

by gocubsgo22 on Oct 2, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

One of the announcers said...

“It’s like the crowd is expecting something bad to happen…”

That’s exactly what it seemed like. I’m not saying it’s the crowd’s fault, however it certainly does help to have that home field advantage.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly, it bothered me.

Seemed very Un-Wrigley like.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

he made

two or three really good catches. We hit the ball well, few of them had eyes.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou

For a hot minute there, I thought Johnny B. Baker was back in the dugout.

by thermal54 on Oct 2, 2008 8:38 AM CDT reply actions  

Still worth going

This was my first playoff game ever at Wrigley Field. It was a disappointment, and it was COLD (in Section 512). The crowd was definitely older than what I’ve usually seen. No fatcats up in that section, just some longtime Cub fans. They got excited at the right times, there just weren’t enough of those last night.

Two stories:
The last game I attended alone, I was seated behind a group of women slightly older than me, on a “girl’s day out”. When they found out I was there by myself, they asked to take a picture with me to “make their husbands think they had been fooling around.” Last night, a younger woman a few seats down suddenly said, “Can I get a picture with you?” And I thought, huh? Then she said, “You look like Mayor Daley, but you’re wearing a Cubs cap. It’s hilarious.” The guy next to me said, “I think that’s a slam.” How the mighty have fallen.

From our back-row seats, we had a birds-eye view of the Chicago schools demonstration by the McDonald’s at Clark and Addison. In fact, the loudspeaker was often louder than the public address system in the ballpark. At one point, they began a chant. We weren’t quite sure if it was something about “Save schools now!” or “No Bob How-ry”. Not to downplay the seriousness of the crisis in the public schools, but it was also fun to listen to the preachers as if they were critiquing the game on the field.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by cubzfan on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Great post as always, Al.

I couldn’t agree more about the crowd. What would you attribute that to? Well-heeled jerks driving out the true fans? I don’t know if it was just TBS’s ambient mike or what, but it almost sounded like the crowd was booing throughout the entire early part of the game (even with the Cubs up).

I almost feel like it would benefit this team to get on the road. Win one tonight and get away from the pressure cooker and the psuedo fans.

"What's the score?" "Nothing-nothing." "Who's winning?" "The Bears."

by ScottieG33 on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Al, I disagree with your critique of the fans...

Most good and long-standing Cub fans have an impending fear of dread and therefore are rightfully cautious and reserved. In all honesty how can you blame them. There is no way you can deflect the puckering up and ineptitude of the product on the field to the crowd in the stands.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions  

Thank you.

Agreed. Having experienced and attended in 69, 84, 89, 2003, 2007 and this year – I have experienced enough disappointment. I cheered and stood up waiting for the crucial Loney strike 3. It was a grand slam instead.It reminded me of the balloon busting with one Rich Hill as well.

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

"There is no way you can deflect the puckering up and ineptitude of the product on the field to the crowd in the stands."

I don’t think Al is trying to ‘deflect’ yesterday’s ineptitude onto the crowd but I agree that given our history there is no reason to find anything wrong with the crowd. These god darn high priced players have to produce when it matters.

by cubsnlinux on Oct 2, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

STOP BLAMING THE FREAKING CROWD!!!!!

Dempster sucked the life right out of the stadium.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

The point is...

… there was no life in the crowd BEFORE Dempster started walking everyone in sight.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

The point is

The crowd pays to see the game and does not have a direct effect on said game.

The players get PAID to play the game and should have put forth a much better effort.

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

of course the crowd has a direct effect on the game.

players talk about how the crowd effects them all the time.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I knew I was going to get it when I posted that

I understand they do have an effect, but speaking of this game specifically it’s hard to blame fans who come to the stadium for the poor performance on the field.

Hope that clarifies a bit :)

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh, absolutely.

but I do agree with Al. The crowd seemed… off… in general.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was sitting on my couch

yelling at the crowd to get into the game last night. they seemed very un-Wrigley like. They weren’t standing and cheering on all the 2-strike counts like the crowds usually do.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was sitting on my couch

Yelling at Dempster to figure it out.

It never occurred to me, not once, to blame some guy in Row 15.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is there any hint of blame in my comment?

I am not blaming anything on the crowd, just simply stating that it was noticeably how dead they were and it would have been nice for them to get into the game a bit, in the hopes that it would put a charge into our players.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 2, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

But it's not on them to hype up the players.

In fact, it’s the other way around.

My view was the crowd was hesitant and needed a catalyst in the form of offense. To me it sounded like they were more alive after DeRo’s shot, but Demp’s off pitching brought them right back out of it. After the GS they were done.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

But they shouldn't have been done. It was a 4-2 game in the 6th!

This team has came back from much worse than that. I was disappointed after the GS too but I didn’t think that was going to be the game and i certainly didn’t stop cheering.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, I completely agree.

That’s just how I viewed it. But I wasn’t at Wrigley so I don’t know.

All I know is I was PUMPED an hour before the game and Demp did a whole lot to take me out of it. After the GS I was pretty damn silent.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Watching Soriano

Strike out what seemed like 5 times on 15 pitches had a lot to do with the lifeless crowd.

I agree the crowd shouldn’t have been so silent.

The crowd should have booed their freaking lungs out.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree, in part

It can work both ways.

Dero said earlier in the season that the players got a real charge out of the Wrigley fans because they were into every game and wouldn’t allow the players to take a game off. When I hear that, I infer that the players get charged up by the fans’ energy. There was no energy last night.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's hoping

Z and the crowd feed each other tonight.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus, IMHO

Loud crowds put pressure on the opposing pitcher. I don’t think they can ignore it.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Like I said

I really think it had more to do w/ the type of fans that were there last night. And it’s no way indictment of the true fans that were there, but they just give off that same aura that I usually see from fans at the game, EVEN when we’re losing.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree, I have never been at a game of this significance at Wrigley

…where the crowd was so lifeless from the first pitch. I really cant figure out what it was…

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 2, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well maybe the majority of the fans

were a bunch of suits who bought their tix off StubHub for a huge markup just to say they were there. I swear, at least on TV it looked like a lot of the fans were lifeless from the get go, and that is in no way a knock on the die-hards that were there (i.e. Al any other BCBers). It didn’t help that our so-called owner (Zell) was sitting there front row throughout the game w/ nary a smile on his face. He just looks smug.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah i suspect the same thing

i loved seeing the old guy in the crowd with a full suit and tie on, wearing a cubs hat….give me a break

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster was off yesterday

But the crowd was quiet regardless of how he pitched. It reminded me of 2003. Any game we had a lead in the series the crowd was nuts. When we were tied in the series the crowd was silent.

by gocubsgo22 on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sick of the self-hating so-called Cubs Fans

epitomized in this comment.
If you don’t like watching the Cubs then don’t spend money on tickets to come and ruin my otherwise good time at the ballpark.

I hate the ‘i paid to boo’ baloney- thats for White Sox Fans- its the friendly confines and I dont care how much you paid you shouldn’t be booing our team.

I think the crowd was cheering and into the game- but after the slam it sort of sucked the wind out of everyone- plus Lowe came out after that and shut the Cubs offense down completely- not much to get excited about after that.

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I kept thinking if I had the privilege to be at Wrigley for a playoff game, my ass wouldn’t hit my seat. I am so pissed at the people who take for granted the opportunity to be there.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree completely.

I never understood fans that gt on other fans for booing. Listen, booing, in some odd way, is a way of saying I expect more from the team and therefore am upset that the team is playing like trash. I bet nobody boos the Nats or Pirates because nobody expects any better from them. When a team as good as the Cubs lays an egg like last night, I have no problem with booing, and I probably would have been there booing myself if it wasn’t Rosh Hashanah and at my house.

by dakoose on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

i agree

these players are getting paid MILLIONS!!!!…they can get over it and use the construtive criticism

by Bardusk87 on Oct 2, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

my point is I came to watch a ballgame

not listen to you boo some player who gets paid whether your criticism is there or not-
same thing goes for unfunny heckling- you know:
Hey you suck- your mom is ugly…heckle, but please heckle with wit

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

A few thoughts

The article (linked above) about the arrested fan says nothing about the ball having been the one tossed up by Manny. That doesn’t justify the idiocy, but it makes it clear the fan was just reacting, not doing something that overtly hostile.

Al — surprised there was no comment on the roster. Is it common a manager waits until just before Game 1 to announce it?

Al — also surprised you didn’t mention the times the Cubs have done quite well in a Game 1 since 1984, only to lose the series. This has happened more than once, IIRC.

by roricka on Oct 2, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions  

I have no idea on the roster.

The only time the Cubs have won a game 1 but lost the series was in 1984. They lost game 1 in 1989, 1998, the NLCS in 2003 and last year.

They did win game 1 in the NLDS vs. Atlanta in 2003 and WON that series.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

That fan...

Should be thrown onto the field and the players should get to pummel him. You do not throw things at the players.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

really?

from the guy who wants Ted Lilly to throw at everyone’s head???

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is a deliberate misrepresentation of what I said

Get it right. I said the ribs. You are a liar, sir.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Black cat

I had to leave home last night for a bit during the game. I left at the end of the 3rd inning and paused my DVR. As I was pulling back into my driveway a black cat (stray I guess) ran across the driveway in front of me. I fought so hard to ignore it and pretend like there are no curses. But as I watched the game unfold, I kept thinking about that damn cat.

"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard

by TXCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

There are no curses.

That was actually a chupacabra. So, you know, you got that going for you.

"What's the score?" "Nothing-nothing." "Who's winning?" "The Bears."

by ScottieG33 on Oct 2, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

so when a black cat stares you down

stare back

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al

You’ve officially lost points (for whatever its worth) for putting “pick to click” on the right nav bar! Just saw it this morning and vomited a bit in my mouth….

Lets get them in game two!

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Hmmm.

You didn’t like that poll? Suggest a new one, then.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about: Cub who will club?

—that is sorta lame…

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily the poll

It’s the “pick to click” that has me nauseous.

New Poll: Who would win in a hotdog eating contest. Dick Stockton or Tony Gwynn?

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

OK, point taken on “pick to click”. I’m going to do the same poll tonight with a different name.

(Gwynn wins your poll.)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great to hear!

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did anyone else hear a constant "ooo" from their TV while watching?

I’m not sure if it was the feed or not, but it seemed like there was a silent, monotonous "boo"ing sound throughout the first 6-7 innings. It was weird.

"Looks like Milwaukee got their No Hitter" -ak123

by NittanyCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Yes!

That’s what I said in my post (above.) Weird.

"What's the score?" "Nothing-nothing." "Who's winning?" "The Bears."

by ScottieG33 on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

That may have been from the blimp's engines

Whatever it was, it was pretty strange.

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 2, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

The blimp

Was pretty loud last night. If they had mics on the roof which they often do that is probably what you heard.

by gocubsgo22 on Oct 2, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

RIGHT ON AL

Tonights another night ..Big Z will we on and the W flag will be going up,,,,,Still can’t figure out Lou leaving Dempster in ………It was so obvious he was having trouble making his pitches ..Go Figure……..

by cubs north on Oct 2, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Ran into our weak spot

Middle relief… We really are relying on our starters to get us into the 7th and if that doesn’t happen it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

think Lou had a hangover from Game 1 last year?

when he got criticism for pulling Z too early?

this game he leaves Demp in too long?

just a thought…

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 AM CDT reply actions  

I can forgive Lou for last year

But pulling last Demp last night was a no-brainer.

by southloop on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

This loss is not at Lou's feet...

it’s on the pitchers and inability of the offense to score.

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 2, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's on both.

Dempster was out of gas. Marshall should have been brought in two batters earlier. It doesn’t matter that the game was scoreless then. A short series has to be managed with a sense of urgency, not like a regular season game. Having said that, however, I’m not overly critical of Lou because yanking Dempster then was not an obvious move. In the end, it’s up to the players to perform according to their abilities. I think Dempster psyched himself up too much and overthrew his pitches. That’s another reminder that players are human beings.

by Fraggin Judge on Oct 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

absolutely with a doubt

great point

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

without*

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

The crowd was terrible

Maybe it was because its a richer older crowd, but Ive heard more cheering at a Padres game.. sheesh.

One of Us!One Of Us!

by HerrProf on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

Do you mean a Padres game in San Diego

b/c I have been to 22 games this year, and I would disagree with you strongly.

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't think it was a "richer, older crowd".

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

But can you agree the crowd totally took themselves out of it? Im sick of this woe is me sky is falling pessimism of cubs fans.

One of Us!One Of Us!

by HerrProf on Oct 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I agree with that.

The crowd could really help the Cubs if they were more into it. Hard to do that after a grand slam against you, but they weren’t into it before that, either.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

wtf was with all the booing?

They lost one game and had a couple bad performances and I heard constant booing. That crowd didn’t look like the normal crowd of die-hards that live and die with every game. I’m so sick of seeing people there for the event instead of the game itself. When only 6,000 tickets get released to the general public, and scalpers are charging 300+ for shitty seats, then I hope management understands that they’re not going to get nearly the crowd support they would normally get.

Just my $.02

by dr stabbingworth on Oct 2, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder

how much of this “the crowd sucked” is coming from people that are just upset they didn’t get in.

The crowd was very much into it until the Loney grand slam. We were on the edge of our seats with all the walks, but we were into it. If Demp strikes out Loney, Wrigley explodes.

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

No.

I was at the game and it was the lamest crowd of the year. Bar NONE.

by gocubsgo22 on Oct 2, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

no they weren't

watch the game on tv…..this is the playoffs, the crowd needs to take it to a whole new level

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hard to watch the game on TV

Because I was there, section 509. The crowd was loud and on their feet during the Loney at bat, and if Demp gets him, the roof blows off that building.

I agree the crowd could have been more into it at 4-2, but let’s face it, the Cubs never made any push whatsoever to give the crowd a reason to stay in.

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I meant if you have it Tivo'ed or on a DVR....

I understand the Cubs didn’t give the crowd a reason to cheer, but this is the PLAYOFFS and we are the CUBS. They shouldn’t have needed a reason to “get up,” being there should have been enough.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

And FWIW

I didn’t boo. I find silence much more damning.

Although I did boo Belushi.

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just dont get why Belushi seems to be the first guy they call for this stuff?

…he doesnt live here, hasnt lived here in decades and is a real buffoon in my book.

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 2, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be shocked if Belushi calls them

I’m sorry, but when did Jim Belushi get voted in as “Mr. Chicago Sports” and how long is his term?

If it weren’t for his brother he’d be changing brake pads for a living.

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I want Bill Murray

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hear he's single. There you go.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

ummm @ the game. LOL

Not for me personally.

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

My guess is that he's not the first guy they call

he’s just the first guy they call who’s available on short notice

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 2, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I only really heard one episode of booing

(apart from LAD intros, and Manny intros) that was when Manny slugged that homer- and I thought that was more directed at Manny than the Cubs.

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought I heard

Soriano get booed after one of his strike-outs.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

He did

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Oct 2, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

i must have been at the trough

for that one

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

A couple things:

1. Marshall’s pitch to Manny was a, dare I say, perfect pitch. How Manny got to it, let alone golfed it out is anyone’s guess. It reminded me of a few of Rami’s shots.

2. I stay out of the majority of game threads and read them later, and have for a while . Granted, the negativity does creep in there when things go bad, but when you say “don’t attack others”, I guess you have to point out that it goes both ways. Better to ignore the ledgejumpers than to attack them, because THAT is when it gets ugly in there.

3. Dick Stockton made about 400 mistakes during that telecast. Truly painful to listen to.

4. Most Important Start by Z EVER tonight. Let’s hope he’s up for it.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

God he was awful wasnt he?

He should stick to the basketball.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 2, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

God, I was thinking THE SAME THING on #1

How did he possibly hit that, much less, hit it 400+? That ball was nowhere near the strike zone. Ramirez has some real power.

"Looks like Milwaukee got their No Hitter" -ak123

by NittanyCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Manny's a guess hitter

and he was SITTING on Curveball because he knows Marshall’s not going to try to beat him with a fastball down in the count

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

But that curveball almost bounced in front of the plate...

Give Manny credit, but that’s a “out” pitch to any other hitter…

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

What about the TBS camera angles...

The picture of DeRosa’s homerun looked like it was shot with a zoom lens from planet Saturn. Terrible coverage. Tony Gwynn is awful, Ron Darling has a grating voice and Dick Stockton is 25 years past his prime.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I actually enjoyed Darling

Gwynn does NOT have anything near a voice made for TV. He just sounds terrible. Stockton — well, nothing more needs to be said.

What was his line at the beginning of the game? Something where he called the Dodgers understudies when he meant underdogs. Ron Darling gave him a quick look and just smiled.

by kanderber on Oct 2, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dick Stockton was confused and thought he was doing a Celtics vs. Lakers game from 1984

Plus, Stockton has always had a bug up his ass about Chicago. Ever listen to him do a Bears game?

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's what kills me....

no one in the booth with him ever corrects him. He got numerous pitch counts wrong, which drove me nuts.

The Sox game the night before he said “Brian Anderson is coming in to pinch hit for Griffey” after Griffey had just doubled. That’s pinch RUN, Dick.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

We could go on and on about his mistakes...

but one more I felt was worth pointing out was when he got confused and was talking about Piniella managing the Dodgers. Then, and I almost thought he was correcting himself… at the end he goes “that would be Piniella, of course, coming up with the Dodgers game plan.”

It’s pathetic and embarrasing that TBS employs this guy. At least we didn’t have to hear the names Adolfo Soriano and Aramis Rodrigo last night.

by kanderber on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was right after that particular comment you mention

that I turned the sound off for the rest of the game. The guy is pathetic. He can’t even correct himself correctly. Silence was better last night for a lot of reasons. Why couldn’t we have gotten Chip Caray?

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 2, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gywnn

Agree 100% on the voice…good thing he looks great on camera!

by StevenABQ on Oct 2, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you get past how it sounds

what he says is worthwhile, in my opinion

by TC Cubby on Oct 2, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agree on #1, but

with the mobile strike zone and pitches identical pitches down almost that far being called altertately ball and strike on succeeding pitches, Manny almost has to swing at that. The fact that he can launch the sh*t out of it down there makes it more enticing.

That pitch was perfect. Manny is a beast.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I really missed

listening to Len & Bob. I really appreciate them as announcers.

by sue369 on Oct 2, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

+more than i could ever write

The only plus for the game being so late tonight is that 720 only comes in with anyregularity after 9pm here. Same for Saturday. That should be a good omen.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

1-1 back to LA

wouldnt be too bad with Harden and a red hot Lilly going in games 3 and 4…..its going to be a suspenseful night

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 2, 2008 8:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Carlos Zambrano is pitching in his most important game of his career today...

And I’ll tell you what, I don’t feel good about it. I’m being very honest in saying that I don’t have a lot of faith in Zambrano for this game. Torre and the Dodger hitters are going to consciously try to get into his fragile skull. Hopefully Piniella is sitting down with Zambrano today and counseling his emotions.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 8:51 AM CDT reply actions  

The offense...

Should worry us more than Z.

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 2, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

There needs to be a barrage of runs tonight to restore some confidence. A 2-1 victory tonight would be better than a loss and say something good about Z, but it wouldn’t feel real good.

"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard

by TXCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I’ll tell you what,

You have. Over and over again.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

No one has mentioned this

but if there is a hole in Soto’s game, it is holding on to the foul tip strike three.

Would a Molina brother, Martin, or Pudge have held on to that strike three on Loney?

It must be really, really, difficult – but some do it better than others.

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions  

ive seen soto

grab quite a few foul tips- If he has a hole in his defense, it is blocking the plate on throws from the outfield.

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed,

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 2, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Foul tips?

For the most part, catching foul tips is mostly luck. “Lucky timing” is what two lifelong catchers just told me. I had to ask them because your comment made me wonder about this, and I’ve never caught a game in my life. Of course, they said that some are easier to catch than others just because they aren’t deflected as much.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stick With Cubs in 5

I made that prediction yesterday. The Cubs can split the first two by winning tonight’s game at Wrigley. They can split the next two in LA. Then, they can come back to Chicago to win game 5.

Maybe, the 8:30 PM start time will encourage a more raucous crowd tonight at Wrigley.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 2, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions  

2003

We split the first 4 with the Braves in the NLDS, and of course lost game 1 to the Marlins….but we all know how that turned out.

by southloop on Oct 2, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

And we won the first two in 1984 and we all know how that turned out too. This isn’t insurmountable by any stretch. Even down 2.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think there could be trouble with rowdiness tonight...

… with the later start. If that translates into being more “raucous”, good.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

especially

if the Cubs fall behind- there could be some hostility from disappointed fans.

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

We were pretty raucous at the local watering hole last night

and I will be pretty raucous in front of the TV. I promise to make it loud.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right on Al...

yes, this was on Lou…I was literally yelling at him through the TV when he left Marshall in to pitch to Manny. Come on! Demp just didn’t have it, interesting take on the ump…didn’t think of that. Yeah, tonight’s where Z earns his money and needs to show that he is our premier big game pitcher along with our entire offense. I’m still pissed at Soriano’s poor showing last night, Lowe is good, but seriously that was horrible.

You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on Oct 2, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions  

ALf is a cripple shooter--he kills fast balls

but smart pitchers with good sinkers will eat him alive almost every time.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

My furstration on Fonz was the damn sliders.

In, I believe, two successive at bats he let the first go for ball one and swung at the next three identical pitches. 4 in a row.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Strike zone

I did not think the home plate umpire was that bad. Dempster was. The HR Manny hit was impossible. Right off the top of his shoes. The crowd was probably made up of those who cold afford tickets, not average fans. There were a lot of tickets on web sites for sale and a friend who was at the game said scalpers had plenty of tickets for sale. Where do they get all these tickets and who is buying. Good question, but it didn’t seem like a “regular” crowd. The only thing I take comfort in is that we have Z-Harden and Lilly going. That’s the best 2-3-4 we could put on the field. The best thing that could happen tonight is a big win to get our mojo back.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 2, 2008 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

I disagree

the ump looked like he was anticipating Lowe’s sinker and calling strikes about 6 off the ground. Lowe was hitting the strike zone as called, but it was not a good zone. What I wouldn’t have given for Tim McClelland last night (I never thought I’d say that)

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought Scott's strike zone was low....

…but I thought he was consistent. The umpire was not the problem. Most of Ryan’s ball 4’s weren’t even close. That tells me he had no command.

However, to be fair to Lou, Dempster got into trouble a lot this year and was one of the best I’ve ever seen at consistently getting out of jams. I really believed he would find a way out of the 5th inning.

"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard

by TXCub on Oct 2, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's a tough call for Lou...

…Dempster did wiggle out of trouble before and he actually did have pretty good stuff when he got it over the plate. Lou was hoping for one more good pitch when Dempster was ahead of Loney and he just ran out of lives.

Lou was probably thinking of showing some confidence in Dempster (for future benefit) and also not torching the pen so early in the series.

I do understand those who argue he should have been pulled, and in hindsight, that is what he should have done.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

See, I didn't think he was consistant.

The ball over the plate but just below the knee varied on being a ball or strike. I’m not whining because I thought he screwed the Cubs and Dogers equally, but it made it tough for the teams to play the game.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pitchers...

…need to adjust to an umpires strikezone and last night, I don’t think Dempster could have adjusted to anything.

We have seen flashes of this from him before (no command at all) when he was a closer and a little this year as a starter. Let’s call it for what it was – he just didn’t handle the biggest game of his career (so far) very well the first time out.

I say the club responds in a positive way to last night and so does Dempster in his next outing.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you 100%

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

What was up w/ the music they played before the game and between innings?

The songs they were playing weren’t exactly going to fire anyone up. The song they came out to was just bad.

I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)

by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Oct 2, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions  

"I Love This Town"?

I guess that’s the “playoff song” for TBS. I’m already sick of it.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

After the Cubs batted in the 5th

they played “Build Me Up Buttercup”

Why do you build me up buttercup baby, just to let me down

I thought it was some sick joke

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Oct 2, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Alfonso Soriano, "Mr. October"

2007 — 3 games, 14 abs, 2 hits, 1 bb, 4 ks

2008 — 1 game, 5 abs, 2 ks

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 9:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Yep. Agreed.

Look at his career stats Post – shit!

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those K's last night were brutal.

Lowe is good, but the pitches Sori swung at screamed “I am so anxious I would swing if you threw the rosin bag at me”

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

He just goes up there with that 32 ton bat hackin....

That won’t work in the playoffs against good pitching and a short series. It’s pathetic that we have to HOPE he is in one of his good streaks. Shorten up your swing and punch the ball the other way.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

and the circle is complete.

Blue-Mike has been hating on Soriano all freakin year. This is nothing new.

Nice of you, BM, tho, to completely overlook his excellent defense last night.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he should probably change his swing right now.

Maybe you could go down there during BP and talk to him about this.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

He just looked so anxious last night

I few hits and he could bust out of this and carry this team for two series.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Oct 2, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Makes you wonder what happened

Maybe the Yankees are smarter than the Cubs and were able to play his hot streaks. In 2001 he had two walk-off hits in the playoffs, one in the ALCS, one in the WS.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

One bad game from Soriano...

… doesn’t mean he won’t suddenly turn it on starting tonight. He’s done that before — looked horrible, then suddenly gone on one of his streaks with no warning.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's looked bad for a while now (as he ended the reg season cold)

so I think he’s due for a hot streak.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 2, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

We gotta hope it either starts tonight, or they need to get production from some of their other big sticks.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly, the entire

“umpire” system needs to be revamped. This year has been worse than last. All over baseball, just terrible inconsistent, missed calls, taking the game out of the player’s hands, showboating…The union also protects guys that just shouldn’t be doing it anymore (Joe West).

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 9:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Please....

Let’s not look for feeble excuses for the ineptitude of the Cubs in the playoffs. The home plate umpire last night had same strikezone for the Cubs and the Dodgers.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have to agree

The Cubs losing 7-2 had nothing to do with the umpires. Dempster was all over the place and it cost him. There were a couple pitches I thought could have gone either way (Russell Martin’s attempted bunt where he was on top of the plate being one), but for the most part, the zone wasn’t that terrible.

Oh well, go get em tonight.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is NOT a feeble

excuse – it is a DISEASE that impacted many games, all year that sportswriters have written about (ESPN/SI).

Did I write anywhere that I was blaming the umps in the above?

Reading is a lost art. Texting is a poison. lol

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

You did post the issue about umpires in a post-game thread. So I can see how people might think your thoughts are related to things that happened in the game.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

If I did, last night,

I don’t recall blaming the umps for a loss – just that the entire umpire system needs improving – for all teams. We deserve it. But it did not cost the Cubs the game.

by The E-Man on Oct 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're missing my point

I’m talking about the thread we are currently posting in. I’m not saying you blamed them, but I could see how people might construe that you are referring to umpires in last night games as an example.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

4 series with 6 umps each

I don’t think it should be that hard for MLB to come up with the best umpires who can call a consistent game throughout. The strike zone wandered ridiculously for both pitchers. Demp sucked, but so did the strike zone.

by dr stabbingworth on Oct 2, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Correct, but Lowe still managed it better.

It’s like the Bears said after the Super Bowl: you can’t blame the rain cos we both played in it.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good point

I just see it as another point of contention in my argument that MLB is run poorly.

by dr stabbingworth on Oct 2, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I see that, too.

They should strive to get the best umps for the playoffs, bar none. That floating strikezone was a joke. But you can’t blame our loss on it.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks Al

It’s nice to have a voice of reason and a sense of optimism in world dominated by sky-is-falling media.

Tonight’s game is pretty close to a must-win. I confident we will and Harden on the pile of dirt for game 3 with a 1-1 series tie will have me feelin’ good again.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

by wrigley's ivy on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT reply actions  

Well, that wasn't fun.

Doesn’t make tonight technically a must-win, but, yeah, it’s a must-win. Hope Z has his big boy stuff and sends us to LA tied. I think that would go a long way to erasing the taste of last night out of our mouths. Two out of three is manageable. Three-game sweep will be very tough. Maybe too tough.

Go Cubs Go.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM CDT reply actions  

lack of energy

Face it, many fans are dreading this first round. If they win, we don’t feel joy — just relief, as if a loaded gun hand been pulled away from our forehead. If they lose, we console ourselves that it was going to happen all along anyway. Makes it kinda hard to get excited, eh? The only comfort is that the players don’t buy into this. In fact this might make it easier for them to play on the road.

by DaveinHouston on Oct 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Yep...

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Oct 2, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

A reluctatn +1 from me

My buddy and I were just sitting there during the game hoping things didn’t blow up. The crowd seemed the same way.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

A few disagreements

First off I think your certainty in the “its all on Lou” is wrong. Is it reasonable to think that Dempster needed to be lifted in the 4th? Sure. Its also reasonable to think that Dempster has succeeded all season in getting out of those situations. I heard on WSCR last night the stat that Dempster led the league in getting out of bases loaded situations without any runs scored. The middle relief has also been so questionable that I think you stick with your ace. So to think that its such a certain situation that Dempster should have been lifted, to me, is just wrong. To be so certain that this is on Lou is wrong.

Dempster threw a pitch to Loney that was down the heart of the plate. The Cubs failed to get in additional runs that they could have and they also tried to continually take a sinker ball pitcher out of the park rather than try to get base runners on.

I’m also not sure why there is all this focus on the fans. Sorry, but even myself in my car last night was nervous as heck. I imagine there were lots of fans in that same place. And often the attitude of the fans is driven by what is going on on the field of play. To me, the fans is so secondary to so many different things that happened on the field. I do not understand why this has played such a primary role both on the blogs and in the media. David Kaplan spent half of his show last night talking about the fans.

And yes, I will say that this all is far too reminiscent of 2007. Last night it was the same offensive gameplan that they had in the three game sweep at the hand of the Diamondbacks. I sure hope that changes tonight.

by dmlichte on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Well...

After Demp walked Manny, he should have been done. He was over 100 pitches, he had no command and the guy coming up to the dish had good career numbers against him. Bring in Marshall to attack Either and you can leave him in for at least the next inning. Then you can start playing matchup games in the 7th to try to get to Marmol for the 8th. I said last night that Lou managed that 5 inning thinking all along about an 8th innning situation that never happened. He wanted to limit the exposure of the middle relief to one inning or less.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

should say

“Dempster needed to be lifted in the 5th”

by dmlichte on Oct 2, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kaplan is an idiot

He’s complained about Cubs fans before

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

He had a bad game

His timing was off. He just wasn’t ready for the playoffs to start. When the crowd would get something started, the way he would play would quickly bring them down again. He seemed to be affected by the cold, not delivering at the right moments. Maybe he was hiding an injury to his hand. He didn’t show any power. All around, he had a bad game and it affected everyone in the park.

Yeah, that’s right, I’m putting the blame right where it belongs…on the organist!

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by cubzfan on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Did anyone notice that as the game progressed... (and as he lost his control)

That Demp stopped his glove twitching? Perhaps this was evidence he was out of his groove and rhythm?

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 2, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

and there were plenty of baserunners...

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 2, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Probably because of the extra time it takes to do...

Would make it easier for a runner to swipe a bag

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only one way he could do it

The only way he could do it is if he did it every time and he did it as he was delivering the ball towards the plate. Obviously this would take a little too much time since the whole point of the stretch is getting rid of the ball quickly. He wouldn’t be able to do it before delivering the ball to the plate for the simple fact that you have to come set with your hands (with a slight pause) before delivering.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I think the organist is a woman btw-
I’m pretty sure TBS is forcefeeding crappy songs to be played between innings- the gal even cut off a lets go cubbies chant at one point

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

FWIW...

I read several Cubs-Dodgers series predictions from journalistic sources I respect (most prominently Baseball Prospectus) which predicted the Dodgers would win game one but the Cubs would win the series.

The Cubs have Z, Harden, and Lilly going in games 2-3-4. I ain’t gonna panic yet, how about you?

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 2, 2008 9:14 AM CDT reply actions  

I'll panic if the Cubs get down to their last batter in a losing clincher

Until they’re walking of the field, either done or victorious, I’m not giving up.

by dr stabbingworth on Oct 2, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Same here

I’ve seen some crazy things in baseball, both watching and playing. It’s a weird game, and the Dodgers still need to win 2 out of 4 games to take this one away from the Cubs.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

+ 11!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know what I want to see?

Fontenot manning 2nd, DeRosa manning RF. Fukudome did have a fine defensive play, but it left me thinking if DeRosa could do the same thing— which I believe he can.

At least if he starts Fukudome, put him at the bottom of the lineup. Theriot, obviously, has been hitting great at the 2-hole. Fukudome, hitting 2nd? REALLY?

"Looks like Milwaukee got their No Hitter" -ak123

by NittanyCub on Oct 2, 2008 9:16 AM CDT reply actions  

DeRosa

We have no idea how his muscle strain is. This might prevent him from playing RF effectively.

by dmlichte on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately true.

If that weren’t the case Dome would only get an AB in “even Howry can’t blow this” situations.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

i think DeRo

in the infield is more to protect him from having to run long distances or slip and hurt his calf again

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's the

reason they gave last night.

by sue369 on Oct 2, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

except we know

DeRosa CAN’T. Even without the injury, he doesn’t get to all those balls. He’s not an outfielder, amazing tho he is.

Dome should have been hitting 2nd the entire season.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

That catch in foul territory where Dome tripped on the rubber

was amazing. Hey, he hit a rope and got on base. Hit, error, doesn’t matter.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fukudome hitting 2nd? Are you on drugs?

Theriot has been everything that’s been expected of a 2-hitter: he gets on base. He has a .387 OBP. The only person that I think that should hit in the 2-hole is Cedeno, who obviously doesn’t start.

Saying Dome should have been hitting there the entire season is ludicrous.

"Looks like Milwaukee got their No Hitter" -ak123

by NittanyCub on Oct 2, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Lou insists on playing Dome

and with DeRosa’s calf that’s what we have to do, he needs to bat eighth. Theriot should be second.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe

that Dome would have gotten more protection early on if he’d been in that position. I think it was a mistake on everyone’s part to suggest that he was a 5-hole power hitter like Edmonds has turned out to be. I think it would have given him a very different set of pitches to adjust to.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

But ARE YOU ON DRUGS?

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

none that

effect my perception, worse luck.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with that.

Fukudome certainly doesn’t have the power that many people thought he would have. However, I would have liked him to be in the 7th or 8th spot in the order. Hell, maybe even the 9th spot if Zambrano is pitching.

"Looks like Milwaukee got their No Hitter" -ak123

by NittanyCub on Oct 2, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

it wouldn't surprise me

to see him batting 8th tonight. He can get on base and Z can drive him home.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Z doubles to the gap and Dome

scored from 1st. You heard it here.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I say this not because the Cubs have lost the first game...

but do you think there will come a time when the first round is best of 7 games?

I know they don’t want to push the end of the World Series to mid-November when it has the potential to be played in a cold-weather city, but it’s just frustrating that over 180 games played between spring training and the regular season could all come crashing down if you play poorly in a couple first round games.

I’m sure the players and managers wouldn’t argue too much if they wanted to remove 4 or 5 spring training games to start the season a few days earlier and allow a best of 7 first round.

Plus, the playoff games are too spread out as it is in a lot of these match ups. Look at Boston and L.A….they play W, F, Sun, M, W. Only one potential back to back. This is baseball, people, we’re used to playing 20 games in 20 days. If anything, it gives a huge advantage to teams that lack depth in their starting rotations.

No matter what, the Cubs didn’t show up last night, and that’s not why I wrote this post. However, the system just seems flawed to me.

GO CUBS, let’s get em tonight Z!

by mycubs1987 on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't think a 7-game series will ever happen.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think

that we have TOO MANY playoff games. Go back to two divisions, and screw the conference series. Play for the pennant.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

ROFL...

Yeah… go back to the days when only two teams made the playoffs!

THAT will make money and generate interest! The Angels clinched a month ago. The Cubs clinched two weeks before the regular season.

Back before the NFL and College Football were king, baseball could get away with crap like that. Now, they have to keep their market share.

There will be 7-game LDS’ before 2013.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Which would mean the World Series would be in November.

Wouldn’t that be fun! (sarcasm)

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 2, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe they go the NFL way

and play in a neutral stadium?

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 2, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

But in a sport (like all professional sports) where they're looking to increase revenue,

don’t you think it’s almost an inevitability that they’ll eventually move to this format if for no other reason than to bring in more money?

by mycubs1987 on Oct 2, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only reason they haven't done it yet

Is because of weather concerns. At some point, they will get over that and we’ll see World Series’ in November every year.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or

I’m OK with the short series as long as it’s slanted much more heavily to the team with the better record during the regular season. Play Game 1 in the lesser team’s park and the remaining four games in the park of the better team. The lesser team should never have the opportunity to clinch a short series at home. If they wanted such an advantage, win more games in the regular season. But, that’s not out of the ordinary for Bud Selig and MLB. They already use a meaningless exhibition to decide something as arbitrary as say, home field advantage in the World Series. How appropriate is that?

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I must be slow or something

And for the first time Al’s post slightly disapoints. This whole fan excitement level thing is driving me nuts. the Cubs have lost 7 straight post season games, one of which was an utter nightmare. The fans want results and will respond accordingly. Hell, I wouldn’t be embarrassed if everyone decided to boycott going to games until results happen in big games. As far as other issues like the umpires or Lou’s decision making, cmon. If Lou would have went to our so dominant middle relief he would have been called out for that. Bottom line no one can manage around 7 walks in 4 2/3 innings. You tempt the baseball gods, you lose. The umpire was the same for both pitchers, did you all not notice Derek Lowe getting a tad frustrated early on? I saw one glaring mistake and that was the non call to Derek Lowe in the third. Big time players step up, even when the going gets tough! I’m just a little sad about all of this finger pointing. I said it last night and I feel the same way. If you go out there and play like champions you’ll be treated like such, if you play like the way the cubs did last night, you’ll hear crickets.

"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus

by graceunderpressure on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed. I sat in the centerfield bleachers and the ump

missed calls for both pitchers. He was totally inconsistent on strike calls at the knees. You could tell Dempster was not comfortable from the start. He spent way too much time stomping around the mound. I wanted Lou to get someone up earlier in the 4th – especially since Marshall, the guy who ended up coming into the game, is a starter. Would have been nice to have him ready for Loney but… oh well.

by the nth on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like to play umpire in the bleachers

And I was calling balls strikes and vice/versa. He was all over the place but he was consistently inconsistent for both teams. It was very ugly (granted this is from 368 feet).

by gocubsgo22 on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. That's what I saw.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

We all know that its totally not fair to compare

this year’s team with last year’s, or the 2003 team. But the simple fact is that the Cubs have been to the post season 3 times in the past 5 years.

They are now on a 7 game post season losing streak, 4 of those at Wrigley.

Again, I realize that’s its not fair to burden this year’s team with previous year’s numbers, but this is what the fans are going through. And it hurts. bad.

I’m trying to be optimistic for the rest of the series, but its tough.

by Neifi Puppy on Oct 2, 2008 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

why...

… is it not fair to compare this year’s team with last year’s?

by dmlichte on Oct 2, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

This year's team is supposed to be better.

Soto, Fukudome, the two-headed CF monster, Harden, etc…..they all don’t deserve the weight of previous losses. But we remember those same loses all too well.

by Neifi Puppy on Oct 2, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

The pitching is different

The hitting, however, really is not. Soto was on last year’s team. Fukudome, while he was a tremendous player in the first half of the season, has been remarkably Jacque Jones-esque lately.

I was looking over the box score from game 2 of the NLDS last year when the Cubs faced another pretty extreme groundball pitcher in Doug Davis. The games were remarkably similar. The Cubs took an early 2-0 lead on Soto’s HR, but that was short lived as Ted Lilly gave up a big HR and the Cubs did little else offensively (they did score two more runs late in the game, but they were insignificant).

by dmlichte on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's not the same team.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

most of the key offensive players

are the same. Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Soto, Derosa. Its not the exact same team but its remarkably similar. But even if it was different, they still had the same offensive approach we saw that led to a three game series loss to a team in the Diamondbacks that I still believe was inferior.

by dmlichte on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

MLB.COM says...

Teams that Win Game 1 On the Road are 13-1 in the NLDS. Darn

by nervousCUBlover on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 AM CDT reply actions  

And?

What does what a different organization did last year and in previous years have to do with how this series will unfold?

I get it… if the road team wins game one, they have an advantage. Everyone knows that. The stats from previous years really means nothing though.

by kanderber on Oct 2, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al, i gotta disagree with you on Lou

When you are up 2-0 you can’t pull the person who has been your best pitcher the entire season for Jason Marquis. I can maybe understand Marshall bcz of the lefty lefty matchup, but Marquis can’t be more effective than Demp even on a bad night. If it is a tie game we have a different scenario, but I think Demp should have stayed in…..As far as Kosuke…he should not be hitting 2nd! Put him 8th, but he needs to be in the lineup bcz of that D

by MJMars on Oct 2, 2008 9:26 AM CDT reply actions  

Buuuuttt

Demp didn’t look good all night. It wasn’t just the 4th. It was one of those games where you knew it wouldn’t end 2-0.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

what about Cotts, your "lefty specialist?"

Couldn’t we bring him in to to pitch to Loney? Or does Lou not trust ANYONE in that ’pen till Marmol?

by CubFaninNY on Oct 2, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Marquis was just one of the choices.

Sean Marshall should have been in the game.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I love Demp and Lou,

but game 1 is on them. I wish Lou would manage every playoff game like it’s an elimination game. If they knew Demp didn’t have it, take him out after 5 and let Marmol go 2 innings, and Wood go 2 innings. I’d rather win game 1 and not have either available for game 2 than lose game 1.

I hope Fontenot is in at 2nd, Derosa in right, and Theriot in the 2 hole.

With all the bad stuff being said, this team is different than last year and they’ll bounce back. Z is going to step up and throw a gem (please God).

Today is gonna be a long day at work. I’ll be there tonight, let’s make sure Wrigley is rocking.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 9:27 AM CDT reply actions  

funny thing is

he seems to manage that way in April and May

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

So true,

how many of us were complaining about the overuse of Marmol in the early months?

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

All?

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't blow...

…your 2 best relief pitchers in game one of the series and make them unavailable for the game tonight.

I’m torn on whether he should have brought in Marshall to face Loney, but I know for sure Marmol would not have been the right call in the 5th inning of game one.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why?

I would rather win game 1 and take my chances without them in game 2. These sereis go quick, you have to play every game like it’s an elimination game.

So you agreed with taking Z out after 85 pitches last year in game 1?

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would have left Z in...

…last year, but he was also bringing in pitchers who had done the job all year.

Last night, was a completely different scenerio.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was different,

but the outcomes in both games were the same. The bottom line is Torre managed last night like it was an elimination game and Lou did not.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

And that's how you have to manage in the playoffs.

Like there is no tomorrow. Cause 3 games can sneak up on you really quick!

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Oct 2, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can't blame anyone but myself.

I watched the first few innings of the game when the score was still 2-0. However I had to play softball last night. This means I had to leave my TV. We all know what happened next.

Tonight, I am not leaving the TV. I won’t leave my TV for the rest of the series. Sorry guys, my bad. The Cubs should be able to win this in 4 now.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

thank god, I was looking for someone to blame

Maybe be a little more considerate the next time you think about going to a softball game.

;-)

by mycubs1987 on Oct 2, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gotta take the heat off the Cubs somehow

Besides….baseball is supposed to be fun. Of course they say its not fun unless you win but……whatever.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sports Radio in New York is banging away at the Cubs fans

They’re talking about how they’re “wine and cheese fans” and were asleep at the game last night.

by CubFaninNY on Oct 2, 2008 9:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Well if New Yorkers said it,

they must be right. Were all the Met games last week even sold out as they were battling for a playoff berth?

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

That may be true

But we need to show that we’re better than Mets fans. By the way, they were knocking the Mets fans too, it just hurts more when they talk about Cubs fans and how they can expect nothing until they win. They say they’re like Braves and Yankees fans who didn’t get excited about the LDS, because they expected to be there and move on.

by CubFaninNY on Oct 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't mean to sound condensending,

so they were ripping Mets, Yankees, Braves, and Cub fans? What fan base is adequate?

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who cares?

I’ll settle for having the Cubs win a championship and leave the fan comparisons to the idiots that bring up the subject.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Oct 2, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

To all the ledgers out there

It’s game 2 of the postseason. Zambrano LIVES for this kind of game! He’s a professional and will be ready to go, especially after he didn’t get the start for game one and we lost.

I expect Big Z to give us a great shot at a win tonight.

Remember this is a 5 game series! Can’t win it in 1.

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:34 AM CDT reply actions  

like game in 2003, when he coughed up the 4-0 lead he got?

Granted, 5 years have passed, but when WAS he a big game pitcher, ever?

by CubFaninNY on Oct 2, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Last year

NLDS game 1. He pitched pretty darn well in that one till he got pulled

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 2, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Never!

Odds are he’ll implode as soon as a borderline call goes against him.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Oct 2, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that Big Z is gonna be awesome tonight

This is his time, his game. Watching him in the dugout yesterday I could tell he wanted to go out and show that he was good to go.

Tonight Big Z is gonna remind all of us why he is the Cub ace.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be happy

if he just gives us a shot at winning. That’s one thing you can count on, keeping us in the game. We need our offense to spark tonight. Get Fukudome out of the 2 hole.

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dome should be batting 8th

We need his RF defense. We can expect more out of Z than just keeping us in the game. I’m expecting 8 innings of 1 or 2 run ball.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope you are right, but I do not have the same confidence in Z

asa profesional. I do have confidence in a healthy and rested Z, hopefully we see that guy and that he has control, of his emotions and his pitches. You get those 2 together and Z can be unhittable.

by DudeVf11 on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fingers crossed

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yuck.

So where was that quick hook Lou used in last years first playoff game? He got it backwards. I’ll be there tonight ready to make noise. Hopefully not the noise you make when you’re having a stroke.

by goddess on Oct 2, 2008 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

Last Night's Done and Gone

There’s nothing to do – all day and most of the evening, in fact – but try to regroup and win tonight.

The team has to try to relax. The stress makes them press. We have to try to relax, hard as it might be. While I don’t excuse Dempster’s performance or Lou’s failure to go to the pen the game was eminently workable even after Loney’s home run. But you would have thought that it was a walkoff from the way everyone in the park wearing blue seemed to throw in the towel.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it aint over now. Let’s do it!

Now all we have to do is wait eleven more hours.

by 08Cubs on Oct 2, 2008 9:38 AM CDT reply actions  

Give me a break on the ump calls

At most, there were a few check swings I thought were strikes, but I don’t blame the first-and-third base umps for not calling them either.

This was a choking dog performance by a choking dog pitcher and a choking dog leadoff man.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 9:39 AM CDT reply actions  

The Crowd will be better tonight....

The Hoosiers will be in the house tonight. We will be loud and proud. I cashed in the remainder of my banking stocks to grease the palm of the scalpers.

This is, simply put, a career defining moment for Big-Z. At this stage in his career, it is not readily apparent whether he is: (a) an elite starting pitcher, or (b) an overpaid, over emotional underachiever. Tonight will go a long way to answering that question.

On Al’s comments about the game threads, I rarely even read them anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I concur with all the posters who posted variations of the “SHIT!!!!!” comment when the grand slam flew into the bleachers last night. I’m just not sure we need 30 similar posts. I really enjoy the substantive commnents offered by all the BCB’ers. There are always many good, informed comments and insights. I do not like to have to wade through all the emoticons and one word expletive posts to get to the good stuff, however.

by perseman on Oct 2, 2008 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

First inning runs will go a long way to helping the crowd get going

Otherwise I could see another reserved crowd similar to last night.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Although

They probably will have higher blood alcohol levels.

by StevenABQ on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know I will

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice

I couldn’t even enjoy a damn beer last night, and it ruined a good pizza.

by StevenABQ on Oct 2, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

The games are much easier to watch

Especially when we start sucking.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Call me crazy but i got a good feeling about tonight....

Z will live up to expectations

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 AM CDT reply actions  

Not crazy

I have confidence that Z can come up big. IF he can keep his pitch count and walks down, I see the Cubs winning this game. He has good stuff, he just needs to throw strikes. Even though they scored 7 last night, I’m not sold on the fact that the Dodgers are this “great offensive team.” Get ahead in the count early and let your stuff/defense do the work.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

concur...

6 runs came on three pitches… THe only one who scares me is Manny

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

He truly is a playoff stud. He just goes out there and plays his game, and he even elevates it a bit. I really think the guy is so carefree that he doesn’t feel pressure.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't work that way...

…all the walks and number of pitches Dempster had to throw, led up to the circumstance where Loney got one he could handle with the bases juiced.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 2, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

i undrstand

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was a team loss.

That includes the manager. Dempster pitched terribly and should have been removed earlier The top 5 guys in the lineup were MIA. Some of that is Lowe, but it’s been a trend for a while now. Whether it’s age, injuries, or combo.,just prolonged slumps by everyone at once, or something else, the team’s offensive studs have performed very poorly.

by DudeVf11 on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 AM CDT reply actions  

Give me a sharp object please...

because hearing tony gywnn’s “gary coleman” like voice makes me want to stab my ear drums out…….along with the whole TBS crew.

by Bardusk87 on Oct 2, 2008 9:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Great Observation.

That’s one of the things that annoyed me during the game last night that I could not put my finger on at the time, i.e., they had two of the worst voices for broadcasting in the booth, Gwynn & Darling. When Darling spoke at first I thought it was Sylvester Stallone light. If Darling had started every comment of his with “Yo, bud.”, then it would have at least been entertaining. Add to that Stockton’s miscue after miscue and I was wondering whether TBS even cared that they were doing the playoffs?

by DudeVf11 on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I cant get over that pitch Manny hit out....

THAT BALL WAS BELOW HIS KNEES….. What a shot

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 9:46 AM CDT reply actions  

yea that was absurd....

i looked at the pitch and i was like WTF he cant hit 89? D Lee will be good today

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

He probably hits it...

…if it is 95 and straight. Its not all about what the radar gun says. Lowe has good movement and location on most of his pitches and he also sets hitters up well when he is on his game (like he was last night).

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 2, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Everytime I saw that replay I was amazed, it just isn’t right he golfed that out. That was a good pitch.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is the best hitter in baseball

Sometimes you just tip your cap.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am done tipping mine.

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 2, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

A tale of two cities so to speak...

“We miss the easiest of pitches, they hit the hardest of pitches…”

by DudeVf11 on Oct 2, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

that it got out by a LOT, going into the wind. On a hot July day that ball probably lands across Waveland.

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 2, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

it was a perfect pitch too

0-2 count, marshall threw a great junk pitch slider and a hall of famer knocked it out of the park

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

best pitch from marshall all night

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

wow i'm still hungover

correction….great junk pitch curve

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I cant get over

how many times TBS replayed it. That was irritating!

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't like the TBS coverage, but..

they replayed DeRo’s a BUNCH of times too.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ahhh missed Dero's

was still at work….

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

really liked the overhead view

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

But I did enjoy watching th replay of Manny's dinger--it was an amazing shot.

It reminded me of one that Greg Luzinski hit off Sutter back in the day, but I think the wind blew out on that day. Manny’s was just one of those shots that as a baseball fan you have to respect—he’s an amazing hitter.

by DudeVf11 on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Had him completely fooled

had no legs behind that hit, it was all arms and he put it 15 rows up in center. Crazy!

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano has to step up and get the scoring started right away, he's got to get back to being patient

If the Cubs fall behind early tonight the air is going to be let out of the balloon and the crowd will get ugly.

Fat , drunk , and ,stupid is no way to go through life son.

by alabebo on Oct 2, 2008 9:47 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree that Soriano is the key.

I hope he does not turn into our A-Rod. This team needs Soriano’s cold stream to come to an end…REAL FAST.

Lou or Gerald Perry need to figure out something to get him to relax and be the hot Soriano that we can ride to 11 victories this month. If Soriano steps up, everything else falls into place.

THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!

by LAcarl519 on Oct 2, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to tell you what Lou said to his players (at least, my best guess).

It’s only one game. And all of us know it. If we win tonight, we’ll be back on the victory train, crowing about how we’re going to win.

Let’s go get ’em.

IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!

by Cubfansince1957 on Oct 2, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Yup.

A win tonight is a complete 180.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Z should channel Bob Gibson/Don Drysdale tonight.....

and greet Manny with a high and tight 96 MPH buzzbomb on the first pitch tonight. Just a little calling card.

by perseman on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

cubs to win out.....

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Anyone think I can overnight ship

a Sports-Synch radio?

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions  

Can't run to radio shack or best buy?

I would think they have a similar type thing if they don’t have the Sports-Synch brand.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope they do...

…Cant…Listen….To…Stockton….

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I’ll be trying to sync DVR and Pat and Ron tonight

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I did that last night, and it worked well.

 My laptop and the TV were about 45 seconds apart. The TV was 45 secs ahead.

by storkysm on Oct 2, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know if I can listen to Santo again

during a game like last night’s

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I watched it,... where as I normally listen to the game

I can only imagine Ronnie had a rough night?

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I turned the radio off after the GS. He was starting to make me feel sick.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ronny was actually pretty under control (for him)

until the bullpen also started giving up runs.

Still he seemed to keep it in perspective that it was only the first game.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 2, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do Dick Stockton and Joe Biden....

…go to the same hair plug clinic? Maybe Santo should lend Stockton one of his “gamers”.

by perseman on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

A note on the game threads

I will talk about my feelings on the game in a second, but want to get this out first. The attitude in the game threads is horrible. It’s so frustrating to have watched this entire, magical season with some really awesome people (HBCG, sue, Maddy, Emelie, Dan, Drew, SWL, there are others, but you get who you are) and not be able to watch the playoffs with them because the threads are overrun with people who weren’t here for months and only come in to gripe about the game. I can’t take it, it kills any amount of fun that those threads have.

Those of you that just want to “get it out” and use BCB as your private venting ground are being totally disrespectful of people who are here to watch the game with friends and really just can’t take your negativity. It makes things unbelievably negative.

Can we PLEASE try and be considerate of people in the game threads and not turn them into a negative echo chamber?

That said, I’ll at least start out in the game thread tonight, but if things turn south and I vanish for a bit, that’s why, I’m not dealing with it anymore. I’m not all that into self-flagellation.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

my thoughts exactly. I’m through explaining the obvious to baseball idiots who insist that this series is over already!

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that you're overstating the problem.

And to some extent, contributing to it. Relentless enforcement of positivity, even to the exclusion of obvious facts, isn’t a virtue.

In fact, the posters who take it upon themselves to respond to every negative comment or critique with a personal attack – even in cases of constructive criticism – are contributing to the problem.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly...

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know who you're talking about.

Not one of the people I mentioned above is like “WooHOO! 7 walks and a granny for the win” but they don’t give up and tear the team apart in the 5th inning either. I really don’t think we can all coexist peacefully without making each other miserable. Is it possible to start 2 threads, one for the misery set and one for the rest of us?

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I always get a kick out of the comment

“this is completely unacceptable.”

Oh? What’s going to happen?

Answer: Frakkin’ nothing. THEY DON’T WORK FOR US.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

My favorite

is when the DP Lee crew starts calling for us to find a new 1st baseman. Because you know, gold glovers are so common (I stole that thought, I forget who said it last night though).

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are at least 5 or 6 GG 1Bs in MLB right now

That’s about 1 out of 6 first basemen.

One of them is Mark Teixera.

I’m just sayin.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

No one is tearing the team apart --

To the contrary, it appears that a certain subset of posters has embraced the mantra of willful ignorance.

To these posters, pointing out Dempster’s wildness last night was grounds for permanent expulsion.

For instance, It is very frustrating to see a once-great player like Derrek struggle for months to adjust when the league has figured him out. He’s going to see a steady diet of outside fastballs and sliders away, and until he starts recognizing them, he’s going to struggle to hit for power.

Take another look at the game threads -my posts in particular – and look at the furious responses thoses posts engendered. The “punishment”, last night, was exponentially worse than the “crime” of constructive criticism.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

look,

if your posts last night are like your posts here, I"m not talking about you. I am talking about the “DP Lee, need a new first baseman” set and the “Here we go again” set and the “That’s it, it’s over” set. I called for Demp to be pulled a couple of times last night, that is not what I’m talking about. I think the difference between the dude who flat out says he logs on to BCB so he can bitch about the game because his friends are there and he doesn’t want to be negative in person, and the person who is watching, hopeful, and realistic is obvious.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about

“The blame falls at the feet of Hendry”?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I certainly never said that.

In fact, I repeatedly said that Hendry, being an awesome GM, is no doubt aware of the Cubs problem at 1B going forward, and will be proactive in dealing with the issue.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yah

I just meant that was one of many crazy posts I read last night. I didn’t mean to imply you did.

Sure everyone has the right to voice their opinions, just as I have the right to call you a tool if they are like the aforementioned post.

I’m over arguing about this. Go Cubs.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

People do get a little (for the lack of a better word) bitchy from what I saw. I hardly ever post in the actual game threads. I do read them every so often though, usually after the game. I understand being angry about play on the field, but there’s no justification for those kinds of posts.

Besides, I don’t know how you people are able to follow the game and a game thread with like 600 posts in it anyway. I am too locked in on the game to be typing here. You all must be better multi-taskers than me.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

OR....

You could, you know, use the reasoning powers God gave to us instead of ferrets and NOT READ THE OTHER POSTS.

Just respond to the ones that fit in with your world view. Start other threads.

Learn to co-exist with those of us who find it unacceptable to walk 7 guys in less than 5 innings. We will learn to co-exist with those of you who find it acceptable.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone finds it acceptable to walk 7 guys in less than 5 innings.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're completely ignoring what he was saying.

The problem he, and many others see is that the same people who come here to gripe are the ones who are absent when the team does well. That comes across as pessimists only here to stir shit up.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you, that too.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's a fair point

…and if you have a problem with it.. . DON’T READ THE POSTS!

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

It just makes me wonder

why people voice their complaints but are silent when things go right.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

nail.

on. the.
head.

they are the people that LOVE to say, “I told you so!”

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're being short sighted.

No one was cheering on 7 walks. Some of us decided not to call the game because of it though.

It’s really difficult to ignore posts the way BCB scrolls, and btw, when we suggested staying in one overflow and you all going to the other one, people didn’t do that. So it’s sort of impossible to take you up on that offer. I read pretty quickly, if I hit “Z” and your post is highlighted, I’m probably going to have time to read the 2 sentences you wrote.

I’m all for separate threads, but something tells me that would be a nightmare for Al/Sue/SWL whoever is running this stuff.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

we did it last year

but with the way SBN runs now, I’m not sure it could handle the strain.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's worth a shot

the alternative is that the positive, rational. set that has been here through everything gets turned away by these yahoos, and that seems horribly unfair to me.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I WILL strart

a seperate thread tonight for us. We do not have to put up with all that crap like last night.

by sue369 on Oct 2, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

YAY!!!!

Sue, you rock. :) Thank you.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

I must have missed a crazy night here.

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't bad at all.

It wasn’t even as bad as your typical regular-season loss.

Some people have an abject inability to see what is happening in front of their faces, and want to create a bubble into which reality cannot penetrate. A world where Dempster was not wild, Kosuke is fine offensively, and D. Lee is still hitting the ball with authority.

That’s their right – totally. But it’s not their right to “police” an open forum and berate the objective observers.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hi...I'll ignore the fact that you're talking out of your ass for a second...

Who was denying Dempster was wild? Who posted a comment saying Kosuke is fine offensively? What BCB’er said D. Lee is still hitting the ball with authority? There is a search feature on this blog…so you don’t get to just make shit up and feel good about yourself.

You seem to have confused the regular user’s requests for some perspective and a little less “OH GAWD WE’RE DOOMED” talk for “policeing the blog”.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just re-read the thread.

In response to “Kosuke Fukudome will be better next year. But he shouldn’t even be on the playoff roster. Pie makes him redundant.”, we get:

“you are ridiculous. seriously, do you think you’re a scout or something? FFS.”

“you’re killing me. can you not find 1 single solitary thing to NOT BE PISSED OFF ABOUT?”

“What were you saying in May when he was hitting over .300?”

“for Christ’s sake, SHUT UP”

And in response to “We can still win this game, but I dont’ want to see Lee at-bat in a high-leverage situation again”, I got:

“I don’t think anyone cares what you want” (thanks, Sue.)

There are dozens more examples. They’re still online, if you’re interested.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

I would like to see more examples…perhaps some that actually reflect what you were talking about in your first post.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because

that question has been asked and answered a dozen times already.

Of COURSE your 48 million dollar All Star Rookie is on the roster!!!!

I don’t even understand why you could think it would be a good idea!!!!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

I totally don’t remember seeing you in most typical regular season losses, for the record. BTW, last night was easily worse by orders of magnitude.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

last night wasn't all that bad.

this same discussion has been going on for years. i can’t believe it continues. insane!

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Oct 2, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's your opinion.

Others don’t agree with you.

by sue369 on Oct 2, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree completely - that was hardly negative.

By and large, the only personal attacks in last night’s game threads – and much of the profanity – were coming from the Positivity Patrol.

There is a big difference between “bitching” and “griping”, and noting that Derrek Lee simply isn’t seeing breaking pitches or going oppo with outside pitches anymore, causing him to pound everything into the ground.

When a comment like that draws 15 responses of “JUST LEAVE! YOU ARE STUPID!”, there is a problem, and it isn’t the guy making the correct observation in the first place.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

EXACTLY...

I for one am getting irritated with people who respond to any hint of negativity with “Go cheer for the Yankees then!”

Truth be told, the most angry people are the most positive.

But I ignore them and don’t read them.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Phrasing is everything.

You rarely see the negative posters say something like “Lee struck out again. That sucks.” It’s always, “Just like I thought. Strike out again! Way to go!”

Big big difference.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

You must have reading comprehension problems.

I’m not talking about profanity, I’m talking about ignoring that people don’t want to be around your negative crap and drowning out the positive conversation between many of us that have been here through good and bad and have come to like watching games together. You all literally only show up when we’re down and freak out. It’s draining and annoying, and you make it impossible to enjoy the thread. We’ve already lost a lot of cool people who used to participate in these threads because of you, I’m just asking ledge jumpers to be considerate.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm asking for...

the shiny happy people to leave us alone and let us be miserable.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's really unfair

considering the shiny happy people are the one’s who have been here the longest/stuck out most games. Start a misery game thread for the rest of you then.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I DID

And it was infected by pathetic simps who were insisting that everything was just going to be OK.

So, I’m here. We’re going to have to learn to co-exist. I’ll ignore the goofy optimism. You ignore the realism. We’ll go from there.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know you want to say it...

….so go ahead and say “I told you so. I told you the Cubs would blow it.” So get it off your chest already.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Pathetic simps."

There ya go. Not once did I resort to namecalling. Bravo.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

no.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's a little over the top.

And it’s typical of the kinds of “positive” personal attacks we’re seeing.

First off, I made about 7 posts last night in total.

Secondly, literally every one of them started off with a “silver lining”, such as “I like our pitching matchups in Games 2 and 3, but we can still get this one too!”

Thirdly, I’ve been posting on this board (I used to post under the name ’closingtime’), since its inception – I even used to post with Al on usenet in the old Cubs newsgroups. We go way back.

Thirdly, and I’ll stress this again – pointing out obvious problems, and suggesting solutions, is not disloyalty. I love this team, and for some reason, I love its players, too. They seem like great guys.

As I said last night, the franchise is in the best position of my lifetime – from the front office, to the field manager, to the coaches, to the players, to the minors.

None of that changes the trendline on Derrek Lee, or the fact that Kosuke needed a break last month to clear his head. Kosuke will be better next year, but he shouldn’t be batting #2 right now!

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

no.

Suggesting that DLee is not trying, or that his behavior is “unacceptable” is what gets the reaction.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

You still need to explain yourself.

In 2008, Raul Ibanez was a better player. Especially in the 2nd half, and especially when you correct for park factors.

Lee had a pretty bad season. He’s obviously not happy about it, and I’m sure that Hendry is aware that the Cubs are getting about 30% less production than they’d anticipated for the resources invested in him. Fortunately, the contract is up soon.

Obviously, Mark Teixera is better in every facet. (I didn’t realize that he is a 2-time gold glover, too. That’s nice.)

And did you ever respond to my posts about Manny Ramirez as one of the best hitters in MLB history? I put a lot of research into that! :)

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't need to explain anything. I disagree about Manny being one of the best ever.

I’m glad you got those stats., but still it’s your opinion. As far as Lee, he is a far better first baseman. Lee has had an off year, and Ibanez’s offensive numbers may have been better. He’s not a full time 1B though, so he is not a better alternative to Lee. I think, (my opinion), that anyone who thinks that Ibanez would of had a better year all year at 1B than Lee is ignorant. Simple.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 2, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Leaving opinion completely out of it.

I think that he’s in the top 20 all time in terms of cumulative and yearly win shares. Literally every player in front of him on that list is a Pantheon Hall of Famer – Mantle, Ruth, Cobb, Hornsby, Gehrig, Mays, Williams, Musial.

He’s going to pass some of those 20 before he’s through, and in all likelihood end up in the top 10, tucked in around Mantle/Hornsby/Mays.

He has a 155 OPS+ in one of the highest-scoring eras in baseball history – an era which we now know to be steroid-aided – and Manny has been even better in the era of enforcement, which indicates that he was clean! Can you imagine his OPS+ if the league was on the level during his career?!

I don’t see how a rational argument can be constructed that he’s not an all-time great, but whatever. I’m sure your gut feeling trumps statistics and reality.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you come to a Cubs blog to

a) trash the Cubs

b) extol the virtues of a player playing against the Cubs

Why?

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, I don't.

I never trashed the Cubs, and I talked up Manny for 2 reasons – first, to point out that the HR wasn’t Marshall’s fault – it was an all-time great doing an all-time great thing, and second, to point out the kind of offensive player I’d like Hendry to go after when they’re available.

We love our Cubs, but we don’t live in a bubble. You have to acknowledge greatness, even when the player isn’t wearing blue pinstripes.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Careful, I live in a bubble.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

there's saying that it's not Marshall's fault

and then there’s gushing about the guy who hit the HR.

BlueMike does the same thing all the time with opposing pitchers.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Easily a top 5 RH hitter of all time.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats why Im staying away during the playoffs

It’s Debard and Bluemikes right to come and bitch and ledge jump…. but personally that ruins a game for me. and I would be willing to bet a large majority.

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, then it's sad...

That I have such power in your life, to ruin a game for you.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah you do b/c I have enough problems in my real life that I have to put up with people I dont like

I have a gramma who came off life support on Monday and is doing better, but a family who is still shaken by this. I spent 5 days up @ my parents and got to come back my apartment for a few days since she is doing better………….

That being said, I don’t have the patience for someone who is picking fights on a Cubs forum.
That is why it is just easier during the game to stay away. That I can control, the rest of this stuff I cant

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

*hugs*

I hope your gramma is okay. :( If you are on yahoo! look me up, we’ll chat on our own. :)

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Meow

Saucer of milk, table 2….

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry didnt mean to unload.....

but the comment about sad to be able to ruin my day… just got to me. As for gramma she is awake and recogizing people, but it’ll be a long time before she’s home. I’ll head back up there in a few days.

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

amen!

i was popping in and out of the threads last night. I can’t take all the negativity that goes along with the non-regular BCB’ers. As soon as Loney hit that GS, I exited out of BCB.

I wish there was a way we could have a private thread, with a password and whatnot. So the good posters on here can still chat with each other and leave the ledge jumpers to themselves.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

You do have a password

It’s called the mouse button. Click it and move on to another thread.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sweet burn dude

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

first of all

that means you win, which I won’t accept. Second of all, you’ll FOLLOW us there. You don’t know where you’re not wanted, or worse, you don’t give a damn.

If you were at the game, you’d be getting into fights and ruining the experience for everyone around you. Because that’s EXACTLY what you do here.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

No he wouldn't Drew

He’s one of those guys that loves to hide behind the internet and talk crap. He wouldn’t have the balls to say it to someone’s face.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

If everyone has Yahoo or AIM

we can set up a private chat. I’m not dealing with this anymore. The game isn’t fun with these types around who insist that they ruin it for other people.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha. A chatroom. Nice.

A/S/L?

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol. :)

We’d need to backchannel screen names and the like to people. I know HBCG, Madison and I all have yahoo. :)

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do too.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

cool!

do you have any BCBers on your list? I’d just post my info here (like i’ve done in the past) but the whole idea is to not open it up. ;)

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

my yahoo messanger is normally up if Im home

"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't.

but I don’t know how to get people to know it without telling them. So here:

drewnmt@yahoo.com

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

sweet.

slcathena@yahoo.com When you add it you should tell me who you are. ;)

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Omg lol WTF

gO cUbS ELEVENTY11!

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is all so high school...both fronts

I feel like we are in the lunch room caferteria…

at one table we have the jock sniffers and barbie dolls…
another table we have the druggies and tree huggers
another table we have the D&D and Star War Nerds
another table we have the mental heads…

Short of adopting the Chinese Policy’s on internet use, you can’t fix either of these issues…

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'm with the druggies!

I’m gonna stay away from BCB for the majority of the day, this is ridiculous.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I usually sat at the table

scurrying to finish their homework for their next class.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's kind of hilarious

that after a loss in the playoffs, this is what everyone is spending their time and effort talking about…I’m never here for the game threads, but it seems like talking about this subject only fosters the growth of the problem, because people like to draw their line in the sand, and then make it deeper and deeper. We all get it. We critique and respond in different ways. But EVERYONE here wants the Cubs to win. That is the bottom line. Can we all agree on that? That’s all.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great points...

it’s happened all season, no reason to believe it was going to stop when the stakes are so much higher…

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's 100 times worse now.

That’s the problem.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I respectfully disagree....

I think it’s because the stakes are higher.

Look. The “Riot sucks” crowd ruined game threads for me. But at some point you have to realize it’s not going to change and you have to make a decision. Sort through the bullshit or get off the thread completely. I miss the game threads, but it ruined the experience of cheering for my favorite team.

Totally get what you’re saying and it’s a shame that it happens and you have to make that choice, but I have a hard time believing it’s going to change, even with your plea.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but...

It does seem there are some people who a) are only here when the Cubs are in a funk and b) seemingly want yearn for the Cubs to lose. Like they enjoy being defeatists.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are those types of people

everywhere in life. Nothing you can about it, unfortunately…And pointing it out only eggs them on…

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

do you have yahoo?

if so we should really figure this chat thing out.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Come out to the bar!

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

If last night's any indication

I’d be thrown out of any bar for “violent outbursts of swearing and arm-flailing.”

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha, everyone was that way...

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hope that's replaced tonight by

“exuberant outbursts of swearing and arm-flailing.”

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're always

welcome at my place NA. Just don’t come dressed as a Storm Trooper.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cheers.

I don’t have any costumes (have worn a few, though) but do have enough useless crap in my place you’d think a seven-year-old lived there. Not that I invite seven-year-olds over, mind you.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

no

I can’t agree. I think there are people here who do NOT want the Cubs to win. They’re sadists, and they want to LOSE.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure there are a handful of jerks on this board, but............

maybe some just want this so freaking bad that it causes us to see red when things like 7 walks in a playoff game occur. I’m not supporting the outright negativity, but can’t we allow for that to be some individuals way of expressing themselves?

"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus

by graceunderpressure on Oct 2, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's insane. And completely unsupported.

I’m thinking that some of this criticism must have hit pretty close to home – the responses have been beyond irrational. No one wants the Cubs to lose.

We all love Derrek Lee, and for a while, it looked like he was going to be a major asset. Be it because of injuries or age, it didn’t work out. I’ll concede that the time to discuss this is after the season – but it will have to be addressed. For 2009 and beyond, the Cubs cannot carry an eight-figure salaried first baseman who is trending toward replacement level, if not becoming an offensive liability.

The difference between the best 1B glove in the league (which, by the way, Lee no longer is), and replacement level, in terms of defensive win shares, just doesn’t add up to a whole lot. JT Snow was a great defensive 1B, too, as was Doug Mienkiewicz. Both players were liabilities to their teams, and in the Twins’ case, they made the right choice in jettisoning their low-powered GG 1B.

At the same time, the time to discuss Fukudome’s struggles is right now. He simply cannot be used as a hitter at this point, as he’s completely overmatched. Frankly, he looks like a pitcher up there. Batting him #2 was a major miscalculation by Lou — I can see why he took the chance (high OBP, good defense), but the Cubs have games to win, and Kosuke should just focus on 2009. He’s going to be a part of this team for the next 3 years, for better or worse.

This team can win this series – they need a good outing from Z tonight, but even more than that, they need the bats to wake up. Assuming a win tonight, I think that a split in LA is almost a lock – Lilly and/or Harden will come through. Which brings us, at worst, back to Wrigley. Would you give the ball back to Demp for Game 5? I’m struggling with that question right now… I think I would.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

You make a lot of good points

and you’ve done so, for the first time I’ve seen, in a calm, rational way. But what you say about Dome is shared by the mass majority of people here. Nobody’s arguing you on that.

And, yes, I would assume Demp gets Game Five. But he prolly gets a short leash, too.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

If they're good points now, they were good points last night.

And our Positivity Patrol absolutely ripped into me for making those same points last night, in almost precisely the same words. Obviously, in a liveblog-instant reaction type of format, there’s going to be less verbiage, but the point is the same.

When you say “you know, It looks like D-Lee is losing his batting eye. He isn’t going oppo with outside pitches anymore, and he’s not recognizing breaking stuff either, so he’s trying to pull outside pitches and pounding everything into the shortstop”, and the response is 25 posters cursing you out and writing “-100000!!!!” and telling you to get out because you aren’t a True Fan, it’s a little disheartening.

What does this site/forum exist for, if not analysis of baseball, and the Cubs in particular?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I wasn't there last night so I can't comment on that.

And I’m not about to read through the thread.

But when criticism, even if it’s well-constructed, continues to get piled on top of more and more and more criticism, I bet it gets a bit overwhelming. We’re all frustrated. Hell, people simply asking me at work today, “Z’s gotta do it tonight” is getting on my nerves.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I read some of the game thread you're talking about...

and you didn’t get ripped for what you said…you got ripped for saying 15 different times…

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's just not true.

I don’t think I made 15 posts yesterday in total, and certainly didn’t participate in 15 different discussion threads.

I started one discussion about Lee after his double play, one about Fukudome, and then a couple defending Lou and Theriot. And as you know, the ripping started with the first critical post.

If some posters would rather this were a closed forum with no critiquing of on-field actions for fear of bad vibes, they can start a closed forum. Or a closed thread or whatever. Take your ball and go home. I won’t intrude.

But there’s a whole lot more value in legitimate analysis, even when it’s critical, than there is in a few hundred posts of “come on Dome! You Can Do It!”

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK...you were attacked...unmercifully...and unfairly...for no good reason...

this blog is full of pollyanna sunshine nazis that stifle any contraditory opinions. Feel better?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

you know what?

I don’t agree with that either.

During the game, SUPPORT THE FRAKKING TEAM. Analysis can wait for after the game.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's both

and there’s a time and a place and a TONE for everything.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's not a free site.

this site is private property, and AL gets to decide what happens here.

post whatever opinion you want. Be prepared for the backlash.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

But, you aren't Al, right?

Al has laid down ground rules as to what is permissible and what is not. Analysis and criticism is not forbidden. Personal attacks and excessive profanity are.

The pollyannas were, at times, way over the line last night in personally attacking posters who were saying things they didn’t want to hear.

And it didn’t stop there — based on Al’s game recap, some Pollyannas took it upon themselves to complain to Al about the “bitching”, which apparently created a hostile environment which offended their sensibilities.

And it didn’t even stop there, as someone felt the need to get in yet another shot in this thread, which led to this entire discussion.

I certainly agree that mindlessly posting “such and so player SUX!” is counterproductive, and even more unnecessary than the mindless “go get em!” posts. But the whining from the pollyannas last night was a giant overreaction, and seriously, not worth sending an email to the site owner over.

If people want your own private thread in which no bad thoughts are allowed, Al has provided the mechanism for them to do so. He’s expressly refused to prohibit that kind of posting in the game threads, however.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wish she was

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mama Mia!!

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Talk about supporting the "Team"

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 2, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1111 finally something most of us can agree on

Fat , drunk , and ,stupid is no way to go through life son.

by alabebo on Oct 2, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

*Unless that Team member is

The infamous Riot-
Sorry but you guys are getting a little hypocritical on this one

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've seen you have many threads on Theriot

and know you have your factually supported opinion, but where have you seen anyone not support Theriot or want him to do well during a game?

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please

Somebody post the Deadhorse pick…. We have beaten this topic up so much over the season that it is not even fun to debate anymore.

We don’t live in China so both sides are going to have to deal with each other.

If Al does not like the content, he can ask every member to sign a code of conduct and if they don’t follow, he can kick them out..

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

umm...

I ain’t peeing in no cup.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

its not insane

and if you were here to see more game threads, you’d see that it’s COMPLETELY supported.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Felt like the Tampa Bay series

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 2, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

exactly.

and that was easily my least favorite series on this blog, for what it’s worth.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Losing I can take but...

not looking bad doing it. Suck it up. Strap it on. Stop trying. DO. We’ll be alright.

"This field, this game...it reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again." ~ Terence Mann

by chr15 on Oct 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT reply actions  

There were a lot of commercials for the Volcano Taco

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT reply actions  

No one can escape Frank Caliendo.

NO ONE!

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

heh

Sorry but his Seinfeld is pretty weird, and George Costanza was horrible.

by StevenABQ on Oct 2, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm surprised he survived his first season

Funny guy, but it’s hard to consistently come up w/ new FUNNY material. I give him one more year.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Really he pretty much best in the commericals for Direct TV.

by StevenABQ on Oct 2, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does anyone else think Taco Bell...

selling a pink taco is funny?

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 2, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

hee hee hee

(laughing like a little schoolgirl)

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

by ilovepie on Oct 2, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

anyone had a volcano taco???

lava butt??

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 2, 2008 10:11 AM CDT reply actions  

SWL posted these pictures of Theriot

earlier this week.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have been wondering how they are

I live like a block away from Taco Bell but I’m sort of scared to try one. Maybe I will man up (like Z needs to) and go get one tonight before the game.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

As Jim Bouton once said....

“Tell your statistics to shut up”.

:)

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

great quote

thanks! :)

"This is a game to be savored, not gulped. There's time to discuss everything between pitches or between innings." -- Bill Veeck

by MOCubsfan on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those things only DON'T work when they favor the Cubs

Like in 2003 when Prior and Wood were the game 6 and 7 pitchers at home. NOBODY expected that to happen.

by CubFaninNY on Oct 2, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dayn Perry

Well he could always change his mind like he did about Bonds

by StevenABQ on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I did

Just crackin’ on him for the flip flop on the steroids issue…thats all.

by StevenABQ on Oct 2, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder what

Colin would say about this

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

More like...

“and he cherry-picks the stats that make his case stand up”

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be standing on Waveland tonight

Holding up “Make some noise” signs for the bleacher standing room crowd. Maybe they can pass on the message to the rest of the stadium. Who is with me??

I was actually at Murphy’s last night… I didn’t hear CRAP from the Wrigley crowd unless something was happening… It was kind of pathetic.

by daeviant on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Maybe I'll stop by and say hi

I’m slowly moving into my new apt on Waveland/Wilton. I can see the bleacher entrance from my kitchen window and Murphy’s is about 100 ft from my back door. I was there last night w/ the windows open, and I agree, there wasn’t much noise, but then again what was there to cheer about?

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll come by!

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know if I'm actually going to make a sign

But I’m starting to think it might be cool. Maybe I’ll be on TV! hahah

by daeviant on Oct 2, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Over?

Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
And it ain’t over now. ‘Cause when the goin’ gets tough… the tough get goin’! Who’s with me? Let’s go! What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where’s the spirit? Where’s the guts, huh? “Ooh, we’re afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble.” Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I’m not gonna take this. Ramirez, he’s a dead man! Furcal, dead! – Billingsley

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Don't stop him, he's on a roll

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

close, but not quite

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

animal house

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Animal House

That is an easy one

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Big Z's bat is gonna be useful tonight as well

One of the few chances we had to score. DeRo and Riot both got hits, but Dempster was up. Tonight Big Z is gonna have an RBI chance or two, and I think he will cash in.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 10:16 AM CDT reply actions  

I dont like that idea

Dome’s defense is needed out in RF. DeRo with his iffy calf can’t be very effective in RF.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

the issue is not dome vs fonty,

the issue is whether our big ticket guys can bring their bats to the ball park today.

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Given their postseason track record

I’m putting my eggs in the Big Z dominates, other guys get RBI basket.

Aramis has a below 200 BA in the postseason, Soriano is around 200

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #3/4 4-0 (0-0). Next up at Nebraska October 4th. Live on ESPN in primetime. Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin for Co-Heisman!

by nji232 on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

bad idea.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

We can only hope!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Oct 2, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

According to the Trib, Fukudome is going to be in the lineup for the whole NLDS.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

One of my favorite qualities about this Cubs team

is the ability to win a series after losing the first game, which it seemed like they did a lot this year.

That said, I did spend the past few days telling everyone that I thought game 1 was super crucial because we have our Random Number Generator starting game 2 against their pitcher. After last night I’ve decided rather to think that we’ve got a pitcher who can be absolutely brilliant going against a guy who can’t be as dominant as Lowe was over the past month.

So, here’s hoping Z, Aramis, Soriano, et al get it back together tonight and give us a good series to get excited about.

by Gator Cub on Oct 2, 2008 10:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Good point.

There were two or a three in a row late this year I remember losing the first game and coming back. Like I said above, a win tonight is a complete 180 for both the team and us.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Zambrano will have a big game

It’s really strange to say this… but the fans really need to step up today. Make Zambrano feel like this is really a home game.

by daeviant on Oct 2, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's all going to hinge on his command.

What Dempster did last night looked like a classic Bad Z Game. I remember going to the game Z pitched against the Rays in Tampa and being able to tell within the first two batters that Z just didn’t have his command. When that happens, he usually doesn’t settle down. It will be interesting to see if Lou has a shorter leash on Z given what happened by leaving Dempster in too long last night and the Cubs’ almost desperate need for a post-game concert in the stands tonight.

by Gator Cub on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

And his command hinges on whether he can

focus his emotion. I believe Z is maturing and wants to be “the guy.” Tonight will tell.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know if it always hinges on his HIGH emotions anymore.

I think he can just as easily have an off night when he’s too subdued as when he’s too jacked up. He will definitely be jacked up tonight, and I expect a lot of reactions reminiscent of that Barry Bonds strikeout several years ago. Still, if he focuses that energy into concentrating on his delivery, he’ll have a good night.

by Gator Cub on Oct 2, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

You will now right away how he is feeling

if he gets through the 1st Inning and if he places his cap on his glove as he walks of the field….he will be fine. If not, he will be Melba Toast….

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

He can be jacked up and probably needs higher emotion to

succeed. His issues are when it spins off into other issues. Anger at someone for poor fielding, the ump for the strikezone, a batter for posing etc. When he keeps that stuff from bothering him, he’s usually great.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Would it have been any better if the Cubs lost 3-2 in 12 innings?

Let’s say Lou pulls Dempster with the sacks packed and Marshall gives up a game-tying single, would that have been better? Let’s say the game goes on like that till the 12th with Wood or (gasp!) Howry giving up a HR to Manny in the 12th, would that have been better? The Offense was AWOL last night.

by CubFaninNY on Oct 2, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who knows what would have happened

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

the issue with this team though...

is that they are awfully streaky….a good chunk of the losses this season have come in losing patches of 8/9, 7/10, 8/12, 4/5, and 6/8….if we’re hitting another such patch, it will be a short series.

i remain confident, but when this team goes cold, they stay cold

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

and generally when the cubs go into cold stretches

it’s because of a reduction in offense….ie. soriano’s injury, dLee and rami unable to generate runs, etc…they key is for the big guys to get some production

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still think last night

was more a case of Lowe being filthy than the offense being particularly inept.

by Gator Cub on Oct 2, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

i hope so...

but going back to last year, rami and sori haven’t demonstrated that they can step it up in the postseason

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I prefer the larger sample size of this season

to the smaller sample size of three games last October.

But yes it’s a valid point that you can’t shrink from the big situation, and I fear Soriano may have done SOME of that last night with some of those bad swings. Aramis, at least in his early at bats, looked like he was being discerning at the plate and trying to work the count.

by Gator Cub on Oct 2, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

i agree that statistically,

the season offers a better sample size….but i also believe that baseball is a streaky sport, regardless of statistical norms, and that this team seems to epitomize streakiness. when they are hot and busting on all cylinders, they are unstoppable. when they are cold, it’s painful. and i think the offense has been the driving factor behind the streaks

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

the spinning glove

 I knew they were done when Dempster stopped spinning his glove.
 The silence of the crowd took him right out of the game.
 The 10th man was outside.

by Cerebral Clown on Oct 2, 2008 10:23 AM CDT reply actions  

He does not spin his glove in the stretch

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

he spins his glove in the wind up only...

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am not following

Windup = No Runners on base.

Stretch = Equally Runner on Base

Only time a pitcher will pitch out of the windup with runners on base is if the bases are loaded…

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or if there's a runner on third

Sometimes with a runner on 2nd and 3rd also, but it allows the guy at 2nd to get a better lead than normal. At least you can kinda keep him close out of the stretch.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

not quite

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's the regular full motion of pitching innit?

The shortened slidestep is done when a runner is on first.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here it is

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_pitching_out_of_the_stretch_mean

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ahhh...

I knew the difference but thought the two terms were one and the same. And now I know.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope. Windup is your full motion.

Stretch is coming set.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

watch him.

 He does it out of routine.
 Men on base or not.
 When he stops, he’s thinking to much. Over-pitching.

by Cerebral Clown on Oct 2, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was

not responding.
to you.
see above.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe he did that last night

but he consistently has stuck to the waggle in the windup only MO.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so.

He’s pretty consistent on not using the waggle only when pitching from the stretch. (See, I know the difference now!)

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

The slidestep

is just something you can do out of the stretch. It makes your delivery to the plate quicker.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Same guy you're talking about Al?

Incidentally, perhaps only funny moment last night was provided by Manny; he threw the warmup ball into the LF bleachers just below us going into the bottom of the 9th. It was promptly flung back on the field; Manny ducked (the ball wasn’t really that close to him). If you’re going to the game and thinking about doing this - don’t. The thrower was promptly ejected, because throwing anything but a HR ball back isn’t allowed. Al Yellon

There was a guy who was arrested last night for throwing a ball at Manny. The report makes it sound like the guy threw the ball at Manny during the game.

Are these two separate incidents, or are they the same?

A 31-year-old man was arrested Wednesday night at Wrigley Field for allegedly throwing a baseball at Los Angeles Dodgers outfielder Manny Ramirez during last night’s Cubs playoff game.

Paul Solans, whose address is listed in the 2200 block of North Lincoln Avenue, was charged with misdemeanor reckless conduct for throwing the ball at Ramirez while the All-Star left fielder was playing his position, police said early Thursday. - Chicago Breaking News

by DrCrawdad on Oct 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT reply actions  

already cited above....

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

at least he didn't get charged with a felony

"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray

by billmurrayforowner on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Swing and a miss!

Sorry, I missed that. I did a search for the goof’s name and nothing came up. Either way though my specific question was not posted above.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 2, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do the White Sox play today?

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

What's up all.

I should confess up front that I don’t have the energy to read through all of the comments on this thread, and I’ve only sampled a little of the hate, vitriol and hand-wringing in the fanposts. (I can only imagine what the game thread was like.)

Al, as always, I appreciate your recap – especially the pep talk therein. I haven’t given up hope myself. I’m very sad, disappointed and worried, but I refuse to give in at this point. I will say that any optimism I’ll be able to muster going forward lies with Big Z tonight. If he and the Cubs come through, I think this team can do it. If not, well, then we’ll all truly be waiting on a miracle.

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by daver on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

I'll say this for the third time today:

Z win = Cubs 180. Whole new best of three series.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm ready to be happy...

…and I think Z can lead me there.

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by daver on Oct 2, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Either way it should be an exciting game

Either: Z is on fire and shuts the Dodgers down
Or: Z is bad Z and gets frustrated… then he will definatly bean Ramirez in the head

Either way it should be entertaining!

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

With two games on the road and...

the deciding game at home being pitched by a head case.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's something positive

Tonight will be better, because if the game gets out of hand…

I can switch over and watch Biden eviscerate Gov. Barbie Doll and put a damn stake in the vampire corpse that is McCain once and for all.

Yes, I brought politics in. Deal with it.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Oct 2, 2008 10:34 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

You're so edgy...

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not generating enought anger merely griping about the team?

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Um, dude, you're more than a little out of control.

Chill out.

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by daver on Oct 2, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Congrats.

You can look at your profile and see you had a post which had five responses. Way to go.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

collateral damage

I had a fan post about Dempster beibg a great stopper a few weeks ago that had ZERO responses…now you’ve hurt my feelings you big pooty head.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe we knew in advance what was going to happen last night.

But I’ll give you a hug if it makes you feel better.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Oct 2, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

have you considered

anger management classes?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

or maybe you actually are the planet 2 before Pluto?

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

not exactly--but I was trying to be mysterious

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on Oct 2, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha

Those last two sentences are pretty funny.

"Looks like Milwaukee got their No Hitter" -ak123

by NittanyCub on Oct 2, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Yes I brought politics in. Deal witih it." ?

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I called my brother in Chicago

after the game and my first words were “It’s all Loul’s fault”. I got home from work just in time to see the 5th inning and after watching on gameday and then on TV, I felt like I was in the Miller commercial but I couldn’t be heard because I was 1500 miles away. As soon as Dempster walked Manny I was yelling at the TV to take him out. It was so obvious that he had no control and was a pitching time bomb. My brother tried to defend Lou by saying Dempster had Loney at 0-2 and should have gotten out of the inning but I felt Dempster should not have been in there after he walked Manny.

I think I must be getting old because the scar tissues have built up so much that this loss didn’t bother me as much as prior year playoff losses. Sure it pains me some but I just take the attitude that it’s just a game and what else is new? I’ve seen this all before and as much as we say it’s a different year and different players, it’s just doesn’t feel all that different to me. I think I’m beginning to understand my dad more now because he was so cool and calm back in 1984 when the Cubs blew it and my brother and I were so depressed and upset that it really felt like the world had come to an end. Sure my dad was hurting but I think he also had developed so much scar tissue that he just let it roll off. I’m becoming my dad.

So after saying all that, I really do hope I’m wrong and this is a different team and year but if not, we get to do this all over again next year.

Go Cubs!

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson

by tucsoncubsfan on Oct 2, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions  

I was at the park and mentioned to my trough-mate that Marshall would come in right after that walk to Manny.

"Can that be used in a sentence now as a swear word? as in "That was the most White Sox White Soxing call I’ve ever White Sox seen in all my years of watching this White Sox game. White Sox it all to hell!" Weeghman Park

by derv on Oct 2, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have a trough-mate????

I hope you kept you eyes at the horizon-level. Other wise I’ll have to take your man-card.

by perseman on Oct 2, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have a trough-mate????

I hope you kept you eyes at the horizon-level. Other wise I’ll have to take your man-card.

by perseman on Oct 2, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I say as long as they weren't

Trough Diving, no harm done.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK the guy pissing next to me

"Can that be used in a sentence now as a swear word? as in "That was the most White Sox White Soxing call I’ve ever White Sox seen in all my years of watching this White Sox game. White Sox it all to hell!" Weeghman Park

by derv on Oct 2, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't cross the streams...

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sword fight?

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm outta here

I don’t have the energy to put up with this tonight. Let’s go Cubs.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 10:37 AM CDT reply actions  

look above. ;)

Sue’s got your back. :)

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

is tonight's lineup posted yet?

im thinking fukudome should be dropped, put riot’ in the second slot and find a way to start reed…that is assuming we get production out of our power slots

by sgerring21 on Oct 2, 2008 10:44 AM CDT reply actions  

bleacher seats

are the bleachers still first come first serve or are there seating assignments on the tickets actually where everyone sits out there?

by krauze on Oct 2, 2008 11:01 AM CDT reply actions  

so..

my seat says aisle 302 row 10 seat 9 anyone know where that is?

by krauze on Oct 2, 2008 11:05 AM CDT reply actions  

left field bleachers

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Give them to me

And I promise I’ll tell you

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Listening to ESPN

I was just reminded of a funny moment last night on TV. Did anyone else notice Joe Torre appearing to doze off while the camera was on him? He outmanaged Lou w/ his eyes closed!

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 11:06 AM CDT reply actions  

You're right

But I kid you not, my friends and I all noticed it, his head literally bobbed a few times as if to catch himself last second from passing out. They just mentioned the same on ESPN. Either way, it made me laugh. One of the few moments that made me smile all night.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jim Edmonds said it best

last night…“You have to win three games out of five. It doesn’t matter which three of five you win as long as you win three.”

Hope the mature Z shows up tonight.

If the game threads get all pissy like they did last night I will start a seperate thread.

by sue369 on Oct 2, 2008 11:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Yes

He said “In order to have a happy game thread, you have to make sure it doesn’t get pissy.”

by daeviant on Oct 2, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree re: Z.

And the second thread. :)

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 2, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

One thing that (I don't think) has been mentioned yet...

…the crowd was so disinterested in the game, that they tried starting the wave in the CF bleachers!!!

I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)

by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Oct 2, 2008 11:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Say it ain't so!

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

now THAT

proves that at least some of those people weren’t regular cubs fans!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh my god!

I used to tell my LA fans, while sitting in Dodger stadium watching those idiots do the wave, this would NEVER happen at Wrigley. Ugh thanks for making my morning even worse.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 2, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I spotted a few towelies in the crowd

We quickly pointed out that this is not acceptable at the friendly confines….
Please spread the word that spankerchiefs are not to be waved at Wrigley… it just has Thunderstick all over it.

Cubs Karma: Don't take anything for granted.....

by Andre Fonseca on Oct 2, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Playoff beard

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Shave it

It apparently obstructed his view of the strike zone.

by rambler19 on Oct 2, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

ZING!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was he getting hammered??

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Oct 2, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I guess that proves he's not "gutless."

Takes some balls to be out in public knowing you could take a lot of guff from angry fans. Also, I believe eating at Ann Sather violates his exclusivity agreement with Einstein Bros., but I won’t tell if you won’t.

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by daver on Oct 2, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

mmmmm

I love Ann Sather’s cinnamon rolls

Check out my Cubs shrine: http://picasaweb.google.com/vegascubfan/CubsRooms#

by VegasCubFan on Oct 2, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Time for Soriano and Zambrano to step up and earn their horribly overpaid salaries tonight

Zambrano needs to go out and pitch like a man rather than the 9 year old headcase who lets an error ruin his night

"This is why Major League Baseball does not need instant replay, because then every single play will then be reviewed." -- Joe Morgan, 5/18/08, referring to an umpire ruling a Carlos Delgado homerun foul when replays showed it hit the foul pole.

by CubsBall2202 on Oct 2, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions  

I was there last night

I was at Wrigley last night for my first post-season game. I consider myself to be a very “regular fan.” I was in section 511 and I felt everyone around me was very much into the game. We went crazy on DeRo’s homer and when Dempster got out of his first bases-loaded jam. But, the GS really killed the energy. I thought we could get back in it on the Aramis double, but when they failed to cash in that run, that was pretty much it. After that, I’m not sure what the crowd was supposed to be into? The momentum was all LA.

All stats are about the past and the past and has nothing to do with today, this moment. One of the things I love about baseball is it’s excruciating unpredictability. None of us know what’s going to happen tonight. We’ll just have to watch and see.

by ElvisCole on Oct 2, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't understand the complaints about the fans being quiet,

Besides the DeRo home run and a nice catch by Fukudome there wasn’t much to cheer about.
Give me something to cheer about and I’m with you all the way.
We shouldn’t have to motivate the players the players should motivate us to be loud, play like crap and you get what you deserve.
That being said I’m still hopeful about tonight, let’s hope good Z shows up ,if he does we win.

Fat , drunk , and ,stupid is no way to go through life son.

by alabebo on Oct 2, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree 100% that corporate stuffed suits may have dampened some excitement

but there were also many loyal Cubs fans and season-ticket holders, too.

I personally know two suits that took clients to win over a deal. The game was secondary to the schmoozing, but both are season ticket holders who do this all the time.

There are others who cannot pony up the average ticket price of $320 (source: Bloomberg.com) if they did not win the playoff ticket lottery.

I also think that the two ticket limit reduces the "me-and-my-rowdy-friends-are-going-to-a-Cubs-game" party atmosphere.

And my parting thought: I seriously believe that clinching early takes away some of the competitive edge. To me, the last two weeks felt like spring training.

The Cubs and the Angels clinched early. Both lost last night.

Let’s go Cubs! I do not want to have to use my Game 5 tickets.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Oct 2, 2008 11:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Hand the ball to Zambrano

Maybe the crowd was pondering why Fukudome was batting second.

Seriously, losing game 1 puts alot more pressure on Zambrano. Hand the ball to Zambrano and we’ll see how he does tonight.

There is going to be something that haunts if the Cubs don’t make it to the WS. It’s the pamper and preserve approach taken against the Mets and Brewers last week. I deemed that approach a gross failure last night. The injury wasn’t amusing, but I find the circumstances amusing where DeRosa was injured anyway. While try-outs for the postseason bullpen and bench players may have been a fan fabrication, last week was no time for trying anything out and there was no need for it except possibly Gaudin. I had a major major problem with the pamper and preserve approach. First, it risked getting the starting pitchers and regulars out of synch. Second, it translates into not taking those games seriously. Those teams were vying for the playoffs. They should have won more of those games and made each of those teams earn their wins; different scores could have spelled playing the Mets instead of an improved Dodgers team with better pitching. Maybe it wouldn’t have mattered although it could have and should have been different. When it haunts it haunts because they didn’t even try to field their best players and win. You can’t just ignore that it might have made a difference.

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 2, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Wow, that's remarkable.

Your first two paragraphs were so short…

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by daver on Oct 2, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's your problem

Sorry for not editing my last paragraph to make it shorter and perhaps clearer.

I didn’t like having the regulars and starting pitchers out of action to the extent that they were last week. I didn’t think it was necessary. No doubt those nursing injuries had to not play. I also thought winning those games was important even though the division title was cinched. As stated, the Cubs might be playing a different team, one with a weaker pitching staff, or they might be better prepared for playing this one.

Whenever I don’t like a post for any reason, I just skip over it. I suggest that you do the same. You might also want to try learning how to respectfully disagree.

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 2, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the reason

zfor the apparent lack of enthusiasm is that people are nervous. Most Cub fans are always waiting for something bad to happen, and I think it has gotten worse over the past several years since we have come so close.

The series is far from over, so although I was extremely pissed off by last night’s performance, there is still a long way to go. If we lose again tonight however, I don’t like our chances. In my opinion, Lou should have pulled Dempster after he walked Ramirez. I think Marshall would have retired Ethier. Marshall pitched pretty well; that was a good pitch he threw to Manny, not much you can do about that.

I hope Fukudome sits for the rest of the series; he can’t hit and I have no idea why he was in the two hole. Bring him in for late inning defense when we are ahead. I’ll take the offense of DeRosa and Fontenot over Dome’s defense any day. We aren’t going to win too many games scoring two runs.

Also, I’m not much of a game thread poster, but some of you people need to lighten up. If you don’t like what someone else is posting, ignore it and them. There are all kinds of Cub fans, some very positive and some who are very negative. We all have different personalities. It would be pretty boring around here if everyone posted exactly the same thoughts and feelings all of the time, wouldn’t it?

by qccub on Oct 2, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply actions  

If Derosa were healthy and could play a serviceable RF, I would agree.

I keep reading he is not healthy enough to cover RF.

If that’s the case, what is the best option? Edmonds/Johnson are a dedicated platoon in CF. Their stats are good based upon the pitchers they face and it works. The options in RF appear to be Ward, Pie and Dome.

Ward brings a decent bat and is a liability in the field versus Dome. Pie is almost as good a glove as Dome, but his bat is untested late in the season and stunk earlier. Pie at #8 may not be the worst idea, but is a start warranted.

I don’t know…

Is the question to bench Dome or move him to #8?

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Either way.

I’d prefer to see what Pie can do, as his last few months at AAA looked like Soto’s 2007.

He’s also better on the basepaths.

Fukudome should focus on next year. He’s not helping out right now on offense.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is number 16....

in D98’s lecture series titled “I think Felix Pie should start over Fukudome because Fukudome isn’t good at hitting and Pie is just as good on Defense so we wouldn’t really be missing anything if we had just left Dome off the playoff roster and let Pie and DeRosa take care of Right Field.”

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dammit

I missed issue 15. I need a baggie, a piece of cardboard and an ebay auction, STAT!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn you guys are pretty self righteous

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

no.

just right.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

In your case drew...

I’d say you are pretty AND self righteous.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

I just did my hair…

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Point Proven...

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

not really.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I give up...

I guess we should all run our comments through the SWL and Drewish Approval board before posting.

I guess you beating up Theiot and your several posts yesterday and today about Dome batting second all year don’t fall into the same category of D98 posts about his thoughts about Pie and Dome

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quitter.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would rather quit than

fight a war that nobody can win

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, why are you busting D98's chops so much?

He has an opinion, and it’s (somewhat) valid. What’s your deal today?

Not to be an asshole, but D98 has posted more opinions today than you have in a week, it feels.

"Looks like Milwaukee got their No Hitter" -ak123

by NittanyCub on Oct 2, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

D98 has posted the same 2 sour opinions 10 times each...

in a game thread….when we were losing…and whined about the backlash he got.

Here’s an opinon for eveyone form SWL…

You don’t lose a 5 game series in the 1st game, and you can’t allow any pitcher (starter or reliver) to walk 7 guys in a playoff game, and eveyone here needs a blowjob or a stiff drink to chill the hell out. And no, you can’t have both Drew…pick one.

Also this monkey likes bubbles.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 2, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to say

that I get to pick, not them.

Oooh, bubbles!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not impressed.

You apparently aren’t much of a thinker, or much of a reader. You are a great poster of funny photos, a serial exaggerator, and apparently, a giant hypocrite.

First, “Pie has been awesome in AAA, let’s give him a chance” is not a “sour opinion.” It’s an opinion without a whole heck of a lot of empirical evidence to support the idea that Pie could do something in MLB, but it’s pretty clear that the status quo is failing.

And I wasn’t even engaging you here – I was trying to discuss the lineup with another poster. You’re apparently just tailing me to be a dick. That’s your prerogative, but it makes you look bad, especially because you don’t seem interested in disputing the content of my posts – just beating your chest and trying to establish some sort of message board primacy.

Secondly, as you know, the majority of my posts last night were positive by any standard. Heck, more than half of them were after the game was out of hand, and involved Manny Ramirez and his place in history. And as you are well aware, I posted about Lee and Fukudome no more than 3-4 times total, and every time, in a reply to an ongoing discussion.

Finally, I’m certainly not “whining”. Today, I’ve tried to set the record straight, that last night’s threads were nowhere near “out of line”, and calling out the posters whose delicate sensibilities were offended by legitimate discussion.

The fact of the matter is, there are some Postiivity Patrol posters who were dealing with a whole lot of cognitive dissonance last night – what they were seeing on TV wasn’t matching up with what they’d assumed would happen – and they reacted by lashing out at anyone who commented on the actual game.

The revisionist BS I’m seeing today is ugly, insulting, and borne out of pathetic message board narcissism – i.e., “people care about ME here, not you, so stop talking!”

You can do better. Well, you can maybe do better.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Whether or not Pie should play is a good question.

I disagree with your reasons.

1. Soto progressed through the minors and came up to the big league after tearing up AAA and began tearing up the MLB. Pie has repeatedly succeeded at AAA to falter at MLB.

2. Dome is very good on the basepaths and has good speed. He’s just not been there very often.

3. Both Dome and Pie have to focus on this year and next year. They are on the playoff roster and are the penciled starters in RF and CF for 2009.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously, that's a fair assessment.

There’s no reason to think that Pie is suddenly going to “click” at the MLB level, and this is obviously not the best time for experimentation.

That being said, Soto’s progression through the minors was a little unconventional – he didn’t hit a whole lot until 2007, when he basically arrived, fully formed. Like the reincarnation of Thurman Munson or the Latin Mike Piazza. He’s awesome, and I don’t think Pie is going to have that kind of immediate impact.

When I look at Fukudome and his late-season swoon, I think of Hideki Matsui, who pretty much augered in at the end of his first season, and has been awesome ever since. I have high hopes for him, and I love his fundamental skills, I just think he’s beat.

That’s why I say “why not mix it up and see what happens?” Pie, Reed, heck, even Fukudome, so long as he’s batting 8th.

Your third point is obviously well-taken.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 2, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

DeRosa looked OK

last night. If they feel like he can’t play right, I would put Johnson out there. He plays good defense and hit over .300 this season. I put Pie in the same category as Dome, late inning defense or pinch runner, but I wouldn’t let him hit. I don’t care what Pie did at AAA; he always hits well at AAA, but he has not yet proven he can hit at the major league level. I don’t think that the playoffs is a good time to try and find out if he has figured it out yet.

by qccub on Oct 2, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

it amazes me

that we’re still having this conversation about Pie in October.

How many starts did he get after being called back up? He hit pretty well in most of them.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't believe people still believe the offense will work with both Edmunds and Johnson

in the lineup. It’s called a platoon. What we know is that each can only hit pitching coming at them from one arm.

Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...

by N Oakley on Oct 2, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reed Johnson

hit .280 vs right handed pitching this season. So, you are incorrect when you say he can only hit lefties. He does hit better against lefties (.333), but he has hit well against both. He’s also a pretty clutch rbi guy.

by qccub on Oct 2, 2008 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

It amazes me

that there are people who still think he should be in the lineup. You’re going to play him based on 28 at bats in September?

by qccub on Oct 2, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lets just get a win

Theriot to the 2 hole, and DeRosa in right, Fontenot at 2b.

GO “Z” and Go Cubs

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 2, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Ronrey. So ronrey.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dont jump people!

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 2, 2008 1:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Get.Fontent.In.The.Lineup

Period. Dome out, Fontenot in. Last night the pitching was not great but it is the offense that will sink this team if we don’t win and we need his hot bat. I just don’t understand or agree at any level with giving the coldest hitter in the majors not only starts, but 4-5 at bats a game by batting him second. It makes no sense.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Oct 2, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions  

it's going to be an odd looking lineup

with two guys playing second and no one playing right.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goat curse lives on

Another moron steps to the fore

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Oct 2, 2008 1:41 PM CDT reply actions  

they should have let him in.

couldn’t have hurt.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

No kidding!

Then led them around the place and then butchered the goat and served it to the team!!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Oct 2, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al...

Interesting Poll would have been..

What makes a successfuly Cubs Season?

1)Cubs Winning the Division
2)Winning the NLDS Series
3)Winning the Pennant
4)Winning the WS

Probably too late to do it now if it has not already been done since the playoffs have already started.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 1:45 PM CDT reply actions  

I think we had a fanpost on this

a lot of people suggested that this was already a great season, no matter what happens.

And then there was DaBard.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

You really think so Drew?

I believe this team is built to win now. Anything short of a World Series appearance, I’d be very disappointed.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

as would I.

No one WANTS to lose in the post season.

But that disappointment would not take away from the fact that this team was the best in the NL during the regular season, and provided us with a whole lot of fun and excitement and great memories.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

May opinion is 4

but at the very least, I would like to see 3

The core of this team is aging and they have made through the last two seasons relatively injury free. Not sure how much longer we can avoid a series injury (i.e. Season Ending) that would affect another run at it with these current core players.

Winning in the regular season is great but it is not going to stop all of the other BS that we hear. I know that i should not let it bother me….but it does.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 2, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

But please don't sort me in w/ the

DaBard pile.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 2, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously # 2 or more. (No pun intended)
  1. 1 was already done last year. Acheiving only that again would be stagnation and not progress.

by Fraggin Judge on Oct 2, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

or, you know.

consistency.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 2, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Real Cub Fans

Not that it matters, because we are not playing, but seriously they are really not true cub fans sitting there – corporate america has the seats that’s why it didn’t seem the same, let the real fans in there and maybe we can help – you know 10th man and all. And, I agree they should be starting at 1:20 or 3:20 (real home field advantage – not 8:30!)

by longtimecubfan on Oct 2, 2008 1:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Let me explain to you how this works

You see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out… and the corporations sit there in their… in their corporation buildings, and… and, and see, they’re all corporation-y… and they make money.

The Missouri Tigers (4-0) begin defense of their 2007 Big 12 Conference North Division title Saturday on the road, as they take on the Nebraska Cornhuskers (3-1) in Lincoln, Neb.

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 2, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I propose a member of the blackhawks sings the 7th inning stretch seeing how

everytime they have been in the park this year, we have won. Also Soriano please dont suck again tonight, just leave the bat on your shoulder the whole night

"This is why Major League Baseball does not need instant replay, because then every single play will then be reviewed." -- Joe Morgan, 5/18/08, referring to an umpire ruling a Carlos Delgado homerun foul when replays showed it hit the foul pole.

by CubsBall2202 on Oct 2, 2008 3:26 PM CDT reply actions  

How good will we all feel when the offense shows up tonight?

After going through the 2007 play-off drought and the absence last night, I know that is what we are all praying for. As much as we all want the “Good Z” to be on the mound tonight, I think we all know that Z’s job will be easier if the offense finally does its job too.

IT IS TIME!!

THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!

by LAcarl519 on Oct 2, 2008 4:17 PM CDT reply actions  

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Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

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Managing Editor

Alyellontoppscard_small Al Yellon

Front Page Contributors

Primary_fc_small Josh Timmers

Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

Other Contributors

Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima

Toonmike_small Mike Bojanowski