Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: U.S. Government Shuts Down Streaming Websites

Building A Cubs Champion: Introducing Your 2009 Chicago Cubs

This is the one you've all been waiting for -- the thoughts I have about what sort of 25-man roster, including position players, pitching rotation and bullpen I think the Cubs should put on the field in 2009. I'm also going to make a comment or two on the coaching staff, which by and large did a fine job in 2008 (well, at least until October 1, they did). This is a long post, so I'm going to make you click through to read the rest, rather than show about 3,500 words on the front page. (You're about to find out why this took me so long!)

Star-divide

The key question that must have Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella and everyone else in Cubs baseball management scratching their heads is, "How could a team that won 97 games in the regular season not only lose in the playoffs, but look like a bunch of scared high school kids?"

If you have the definitive answer to that question, incidentally, let Hendry know right away. I'm sure he'd like to know.

The knee-jerk response, of course, would be to pull out the handy 2009 complete free agent list and choose one from column A, one from column B; simply identify the best players and throw money at them until it sticks, increase the payroll, because, after all, that's the best way to win, right?

It's not, and I think that should be obvious by now -- the Yankees of the last several years prove that out. Since they started signing every player in baseball, as that classic 2003 Onion article put so cleverly, they have made the playoffs every season (until 2008), but have won no World Series since 2000 and made it twice in the eight years following, without a win.

We'd take that, of course, but the lesson is: when the Yankees were winning titles, they did it through putting a fine team on the field that had, in large part, been developed in their own system, complemented with good role players (Scott Brosius, Paul O'Neill), instead of simply trying to put an All-Star team on the field. It is worth noting that as soon as Alex Rodriguez left the Mariners, they had several of the best seasons in their history -- and as soon as he signed with the Rangers, they had three of the worst in theirs. Following his signing with the Yankees, they ended a run of appearing in six World Series in eight years -- they haven't been there since. Now, I'm not blaming A-Rod for the Yankees' failures; the point is that simply salivating after someone because he's on a free agent list and puts up gaudy statistics doesn't make a team a winner.

Another team that's a poster child for spending money foolishly is the Dodgers. Sure, they made the playoffs, largely because Manny went nuts there for two months. Without him they'd likely have finished under .500, and I'd bet they'd like back all the money they wasted on Juan Pierre, Andruw Jones and Jason Schmidt, three of the worst free-agent signings ever.

So for the Cubs, I say stay away from the big-time free agent signings; more often than not, they fail -- though I think Alfonso Soriano has helped the Cubs, he appears to NOT be a good postseason performer and I know there are many here who'd rather see him gone (note: ain't gonna happen). I think the Cubs can, without major surgery and with making some very minor tweaks including adding the very role players that have helped some teams win, take that next step to a title.

It's important to first remember that Jim Hendry is on the cusp of signing a contract extension that will, essentially, keep him and his management team in place for three more years. Since it seems clear that Lou Piniella will not manage past 2010, that also means two other things: that the Cubs will, as they have the last two years, go all out to win sometime before Lou goes, and also that Hendry will be the one to put in place Lou's successor. The 2009 Cubs may be built with both things in mind -- win now, and also put a base in place that will help them be a perennial contender. Further, keep in mind that as long as Lou is in charge, players he likes are going to play no matter how much any of us would like them gone, and players in Lou's doghouse get there and stay there. Just ask Scott Eyre about that -- he's a happy escapee from that doghouse, now that he's in the World Series.

So let's begin -- as is traditional with these sorts of thoughts, I'm going to organize them by position. And as I go through by position, I'll try to construct a logical and reasonable facsimile of what I think the April 6, 2009 25-man roster will look like.

Catcher: here's one place where the Cubs don't have to worry. Geovany Soto hasn't yet been named 2008 NL Rookie of the Year, but he will be, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't unanimous (and no, I don't want to hear the VORP arguments about Joey Votto. Soto was far more valuable to his team than Votto, and was outstanding at a far more difficult defensive position). Where some of us disagree is over the value of Henry Blanco, who, admittedly, is getting old at 38. His value as a mentor to Soto cannot be overstated. Is he worth his $3 million option? I say yes, although I have heard the Cubs are going to attempt to decline it and sign him to a lower-value deal. To do so they may have to give him two years. I'd still do it.

First base: Here's where we begin to dismantle the two-time division champions. Longtime GM Branch Rickey used to say, "Better to trade someone a year too early than a year too late". Very true, I think. And with that, I think it's time for the Cubs to say goodbye to Derrek Lee. D-Lee is a class act and has given us five (mostly) good years. He will be 34 next September, has two years left on his deal, and a year from now I suspect will be almost untradeable. With that, unload him to the Giants. D-Lee is a native of northern California (Sacramento); the Giants seem to like getting hold of older players who still have something left in the tank; and they can afford him. In return, I'd like Matt Cain and lefty reliever Alex Hinshaw. Don't slot Cain into the rotation yet, though; I'll explain why later.

To replace Lee, it will require a trade and a free agent signing; I'm going to suggest a platoon, and there's a reason for that. First, acquire Aubrey Huff from the Orioles. Yes, I'm aware that it's nearly impossible to trade with the dithering Andy MacPhail, but I'm guessing it'd be relatively easy to take Huff's contract ($8 million in 2009) off MacPhail's hands. Send them Sean Marshall, Ronny Cedeno, Michael Wuertz and Micah Hoffpauir for Huff and Luke Scott, who's in line for a large raise as an arb-eligible player in 2009. While Huff had a fine year playing full-time, as a platoon player he'd be even better -- he hit .321/.382/.607 vs. RHP. You'd be giving the Orioles a rotation starter, a starting SS, a strong setup man, and someone who could replace Huff at DH (Hoffpauir). They already have a replacement for Scott in Luis Montanez, the former Cub #1 draft pick at SS who, shockingly, has apparently reinvented himself as a power-hitting outfielder. This deal makes sense for both teams, and later, you'll find out the reason I want Scott. See below, also, for Huff's platoon partner.

Second base: Mark DeRosa is on the last year of his three-year deal, coming off a career year. He'll be 34 in February and isn't likely to replicate his 2008 season. Still, even if he played only at his 2007 level, he's a valuable player who can play multiple positions, and Mike Fontenot is a capable backup. Here, we make no changes.

Shortstop: The bottom line at SS is this: no matter how many SS are free agents (Furcal, Cristian Guzman, Orlando Cabrera, etc.) or may be available by trade (Khalil Greene), Lou loves Ryan Theriot. I don't want to start another round of Theriot-bashing here, but the reality of things is: no matter what any of us thinks, Ryan Theriot is going to be the Cubs' starting SS in 2009.

Third base: Aramis Ramirez.

Backup infield: As noted above, Mike Fontenot returns as the backup 2B. But you are going to need another backup middle infielder, because above I dealt away Ronny Cedeno, and perhaps another hitter. Here's where you go to the bottom rungs of the free-agent list and sign someone: perhaps Alex Cintron, who the Cubs had in camp last spring and who nearly made the team. Others: Felipe Lopez can play several positions and is only 28; Mark Loretta is versatile but is 36; Pablo Ozuna had a couple decent years as a White Sox backup; Juan Uribe can also play several positions, but might want a starting job; Willie Bloomquist can also play multiple spots and played for Lou in Seattle.

Of those, I think I'd go for Cintron, who is a switch-hitter and wouldn't be that expensive (he made $1.9 million in 2008 and $1.6 million in 2007 -- you could probably have him for about $2.2 million.

And then I'd sign Kevin Millar to back up first base and outfield. Yes, this is likely to be controversial -- Millar, after all, is 37 and had a pretty bad year in 2008. But Ryan Dempster, who was supposedly the "loosen up" leader in the clubhouse, says he'd love to play with Millar (again -- they were Marlins teammates from 1998-2002), and Millar is the one credited with inventing the Red Sox "idiots", the ones who made the amazing comeback in 2004, the guys who won because they threw off the yoke of jinxes. Millar does have some power (25 doubles, 20 HR last year) and has a .361 lifetime OBA. But there is value in him beyond his statistics, and yes, that is important when you play a game where 25 men basically spend six months together in close proximity.

Outfield: We are stuck with Alfonso Soriano. Phil Rogers' column yesterday suggested Jim Hendry might go after Manny Ramirez, but to do so would require dumping Soriano's deal (if you hate him in LF, you'd despise him in RF). The Dodgers, presuming they'd lose Manny, might be interested -- but in order to push Soriano off on them, you'd probably have to take one or more of LA's bad contracts (the same Pierre, Jones and Schmidt deals I mentioned above). I personally don't have the least bit of interest in any of those three.

So keep Soriano. He can carry a team, at least in the regular season, and then hopefully, someone else can in October.

In center field, I'd give one more year to the productive platoon of Reed Johnson and Jim Edmonds. It will not come as cheaply as the $1.6 million combined the Cubs paid to those two last year -- Johnson's probably in line for a $4-$5 million one year deal (if not a multiyear deal) and Edmonds will probably get close to the $8 million he got combined from the Cardinals and Padres in 2008. Yes, it's a risk; there's always the risk that Edmonds could fall off the face of the Earth in 2009. But Cub CF -- and Johnson and Edmonds combined account for 139 of the 161 games there -- hit .290/.374/.484 with 23 HR and 101 RBI. Even 2/3 of that production would be great, considering Johnson and Edmonds provide fine defense.

Now, you're going to find out why I made that deal with the Orioles to include Luke Scott. Meet your 2009 starting right fielder, Luke Scott. I firmly believe that the Cubs and Kosuke Fukudome are going to reach an agreement that will allow both sides to, with face saved, get out of the remaining three years of the deal signed last year -- probably with several million dollars of buyout -- and Dome, who is deep in Lou's doghouse (and you all know that once there it's nearly impossible to get out), will return to Japan. Scott, who hits RHP very well (.269/.346/.492 last year) would play most of the games, with Mark DeRosa playing some others and Millar perhaps a handful (though he hasn't played any RF since 2005).

So your Opening Day 2009 Cubs position player roster, if I'm in charge, reads as follows:

C: Geovany Soto, Henry Blanco 1B: Aubrey Huff, Kevin Millar 2B: Mark DeRosa, Mike Fontenot SS: Ryan Theriot 3B: Aramis Ramirez INF: Alex Cintron OF: Alfonso Soriano, Reed Johnson, Jim Edmonds, Luke Scott

13 position players would begin the season, just as last year. You'll note Felix Pie is not listed there, and you're about to find out why.

Starting pitchers: Re-sign Ryan Dempster to a three-year deal with a mutual option for a fourth season. The dollar amount isn't that critical because Dempster loves playing in Chicago and would likely give Jim Hendry a hometown discount, particularly after Hendry signs Dempster's buddy Millar. There is risk here: Dempster was horrid in the NLDS and yes, he could regress. But I think Dempster learned his lesson last offseason and is willing to work hard to keep his near-Cy Young form.

Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly and Rich Harden are under contract for 2009 and, presuming they all keep in shape and work to fix any unresolved problems left over from '08, will be, along with Dempster, one of the best top fours in baseball in 2009.

Jason Marquis, who was the best fifth starter in the game last year, will, under my scenario, bid a fond farewell to the Cubs and re-emerge in his hometown, New York, for either the Mets or Yankees, both of whom could use an inning-eater like Marquis. In return for one of the Big Apple teams taking over the $9.875 million left on Marquis' contract, all the Cubs require is to get a face-saving prospect or two.

And that leaves the fifth spot open. But you're saying, having read my epic saga so far, "Wait! Didn't you trade for Matt Cain 17 paragraphs and a blockquote ago?"

Yes, I did, but Cain isn't going to pitch a single inning in a Cub uniform. Instead, he's headed to the Marlins, along with Felix Pie (told ya I'd get to that!) in exchange for Ricky Nolasco.

The reason Nolasco is on the trading block should be obvious. The Marlins operated with the lowest payroll in the majors last year, and Nolasco made the major league minimum of $390,000. His 15-8, 3.52 season with 186 K's (8th in the NL) made him one of the top pitchers in the league last year, and he's arb-eligible... which would probably make him a salary of at least $7 or $8 million, which would be close to half the Marlins' total payroll. There's no way they'll do that. Cain is scheduled to make a more reasonable $2.65 million in 2009 and $4.5 million in 2010; the Marlins can handle that and Cain becomes their #1 or #2 starter, and Pie their starting CF (freeing up Jeremy Hermida for trade, and if the Luke Scott deal becomes impossible, Hermida, who is 9-for-27 with 4 HR lifetime in Wrigley Field, might be an enticing target, and Sean Marshall and Michael Wuertz, who I'd send to Baltimore for Scott, could be the starting point for a deal for Hermida, or you could make one huge deal for Hermida and Nolasco). Finally, getting Nolasco back, just at the time he's probably headed to his peak years (he's 26 in December) would right the massive wrong Jim Hendry did when he sent him away for Juan Pierre three winters ago.

Your 2009 Cub starting rotation:

Ryan Dempster, Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly, Rich Harden, and Ricky Nolasco (not necessarily in that order).

Bullpen: Just as I'd re-sign Dempster, I'd re-sign Kerry Wood to a two-year deal to close with a mutual option third year. Carlos Marmol returns to set Wood up, and Jeff Samardzija (who I still think is better suited to relief than starting) fills the 7th-inning role that Bob Howry failed so miserably at for most of 2008. Howry departs to free agency -- he might, because the free-agent rankings take into account the last two years, even bring a draft pick if someone signs him.

Alex Hinshaw, acquired from the Giants, becomes the LOOGY (LHB hit .205 with only 1 HR off him last year); Neal Cotts remains as another lefty who can go longer. Chad Gaudin and Angel Guzman should round out the bullpen, or perhaps some other righthander will come out of spring training, or there are over 80 other free-agent relievers on the above-linked free-agent list.

Your 2009 Cubs bullpen:

Kerry Wood, Carlos Marmol, Jeff Samardzija, Chad Gaudin, Angel Guzman, Alex Hinshaw, Neal Cotts

I'm not going to get into specific dollar amounts, but just looking over what I've done here, I have removed $13 million of Derrek Lee's deal (and Bob Howry's $3 million and the $1.2 million Daryle Ward earned is gone too); that's $17.2 million gone, probably eaten up with the additional money paid to Johnson, Edmonds, Dempster and Wood (above and beyond what those men made in 2008, a total of $15.5 million -- it'll take about twice that to retain those four). In addition, subtracting the $11.5 million that was due to Kosuke Fukudome in 2009 and Jason Marquis' $9.875 million should cover Aubrey Huff's $8 million and whatever is paid to Luke Scott and Ricky Nolasco. That might make this roster cost virtually the same as the 2008 team, something that ought to be manageable given the uncertain state of the sale of the team and the overall economy.

And that, I believe, is how you build a team. Not "blowing it up", not throwing multiple millions of dollars at a free-agent dartboard, but carefully, taking advantage of the assets you already have to keep a team performing at a high level, and take it to the next one.

Manager/coaches: I still like Lou Piniella, but just as any manager will when you get to know him well enough, he drives us nuts with some of his in-game decisions and use of his bench and bullpen. One thing that I think Lou failed us in both last year and this is his approach to the postseason. He managed games in the NLDS in 2007 and 2008 as if it were May 1, not October 1. When Ryan Dempster was in trouble in game 1, why wasn't Ted Lilly -- who wasn't going to pitch for three more days -- warming up? Other teams use starters in relief in the postseason; why can't the Cubs? That's just one example. The fact that Lou didn't really treat the last week, against contending teams, as playoff type games, bothers me, especially the last regular season game vs. Milwaukee, where he put a spring-training pitching staff out there. We all know what might have happened had the Cubs won that game, which would have forced a Brewers/Mets playoff -- what if the Mets had won that?

Anyway, that's done and gone. But Lou has to learn a lesson from those failures, too.

I think the entire coaching staff will return, with the possible exception of Matt Sinatro, who may go back to Seattle. If that happens, do not be surprised to see a familiar face, a very popular one, on the coaching lines at first base in 2009 -- Ryne Sandberg. Sandberg did a very good job at Peoria the last two years, improving from year to year, and he has made no secret of his desire to manage in the big leagues. Promoting him to the major league coaching staff would be a good first step toward getting him the experience he needs to do that.

So there you have it -- what I'd do, starting as soon as possible, to give the Cubs a winning roster in 2009. Naturally, there are always the unforeseen -- injuries, declines, career years -- but this, rather than just buying every free agent in sight, I think is the way to do it. These are, FWIW, my thoughts only and don't represent any inside information... except for exactly one of the potential transactions I've mentioned, which I have heard the Cubs are interested in making. Speculate away -- I'm not telling. Go Cubs. Let's win it all in '09.

Comment 639 comments  |  4 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Have been looking forward to this!

Thanks Al, now I have something to do at work on a Monday!

Football and basketball are just things to do between baseball seasons.

by MetsSuck on Oct 20, 2008 8:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Hope I'm not responsible for you getting in trouble on the job!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

No worries there.

I can get in plenty of trouble without help.

Football and basketball are just things to do between baseball seasons.

by MetsSuck on Oct 20, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Magnum Opus Indeed!

Well thought out and nicely presented. Now, if Jim Hendry reads BCB …

Ya gotta love a team with a shortstop named TheRiot ...

by StampMe on Oct 20, 2008 8:39 AM CDT reply actions  

Someone should email it to him.

Or heck just print it out and slip it under his door.

by 100yearitch on Oct 20, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great tweaking of a team

I agree with you thoughts, but am a bit fuzzy on Luke Scott – and he may be the guy. Otherwise very solid, and with a winner like Millar in reserve.

Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!

by Ihatethecards on Oct 20, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Well written and thought out

And I wanted to start out with that positive, so as not to be taking shots at what obviously took some effort to put together — because at least to start, I’m going to focus only on what I don’t agree with:

- I have a hard time believing the Giants would give up Cain for Lee. I know the popular sentiment is that Sabean likes older players, but this seems like a stretch. I wouldn’t make that deal straight up, let alone including a lefty reliever. Plus, the rumor dejour four weeks ago was Fielder AND Hardy to SF in a Cain deal.

- People talk about Brian Roberts, and you mention Luke Scott and Aubrey Huff. However, Teixiera is from the Baltimore area and has made no secret of his desire to one day play for his hometown team. If that day comes in 2009, why would the O’s trade established players for less established, prospect types?

- I was wrong about the Edmonds signing; I was against it and didn’t expect anything out of him. I think the Cubs should invite Jim Edmonds to the 2009 Convention to let him get his well-deserved applause and thanks for helping the Cubs win the division. And that’s it. He hit .241 after the ASG, including .200 in August. He gave the Cubs a boost, and they may have given him one — but I hope the organization learned from the Gaetti signing of 1999. If Johnson full-time is the backup plan, then just give him the job outright and save the money on Edmonds.

- Unless Deep Goat is telling you about Fukudome, I don’t believe that this is going to happen. I think there’d be tremendous backlash from the players’ union, not to mention the future implicatoins when the Cubs try to sign a player from the Pacific Rim (or any other global region where the draft doesn’t apply). Kosuke is probably here for at least one more year, if not three.

- The most minor comment — Listasch and Davis are higher on the organizational chart than Sandberg. I wonder if this is a sentimental choice — I can understand that; Sandberg’s my all-time favorite Cub (nothing against Banks; I was born in the 1970’s). However, I think those two get a call to the big leagues before Ryno does. Even if not — usually managers in waiting are third base or bench coaches, not first base coaches.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions  

I know the Giants are looking at Lee.

Maybe you’d have to throw in a prospect or two to make that deal. I’d still do it.

About Reed Johnson, he doesn’t really hit RHP — and Edmonds doesn’t hit LHP any more. But the two of them together can still be a productive platoon.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lee

I’d do it from a Cub perspective; I was saying I wouldn’t do it from a SF perspective.

Johnson actually hit .273 against RHP from 2005-2007, and .280 in 2008. I didn’t mean that he was the answer, I just meant I think that Edmonds isn’t anymore.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I acknowledge that Edmonds declined late in the year.

It’s not quite a Gaetti situation — in fact, Gaetti hit great for six weeks, which is why Ed Lynch re-signed him.

The Giants have a surplus of pitching and, really, no hitting at all (their best hitter was Bengie Molina. How weak is that?). D-Lee becomes the best player on the team, and solidifies their defense.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lee and Edmonds (which I should have titled the above...)

As much as I like Lee, he’s probably the most movable of the “big 3” — and that 3 needs to be broken up. If I were Hendry, I’d definitely do it for Cain straight up and especially if they’d include another piece.

I still think signing Edmonds would be a mistake. His range has decreased in addition to his hitting. I was wrong once regarding him; maybe I am again – but in your rationale for getting rid of Lee, you invoked Branch Rickey — I think that could apply here, as well. Not that there is a great option out there, but the money is better spent somewhere else (Blanco?). Plus, I still think Fukudome stays. Maybe Kosuke is the platoon partner in center.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

That could work, I suppose...

Fukudome had weird splits. His BA was higher vs LHP (.276 to .251). But he hit RHP for more power (.388 SLG to .354). Not quite sure what to make of those.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kosuke's splits -- odd indeed

And another year of that would probably signal his way out the door — but so would a .260 overall average unless he walks 100 times.

Unless he decides himself that he wants to leave, I think he’s a Cub in 2009. Then it’s up to him to work on that swing and get both splits up. No more “bail, wail and fail”.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Dome is gone either

He seems like a pretty confident guy and I just don’t think he would accept failure by returning to Japan. He wants to succeed and I would expect him to work his ass off this winter to achieve that result.

I like him as the platoon partner in center w/ Johnson. He has got to be at least Edmonds equal in terms of defense. Offensively, however, Dome may be a downgrade if this year wasn’t an aberration.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 20, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

I also think Dome is here to stay for at least another year and agree that he will work his ass off to prove that last year was due to the transition, travel, longer schedule etc to MLB. His culture will not allow failure especially this early. Hopefully he proves he can hit at this level and proves last year was an abberation.

You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on Oct 20, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think a lot...

…of this had to do with how bad (or good) he was swinging when he faced these guys. And, we know he wasn’t swinging very well in the 2nd half.

I tend to think Fukudome will be back. The Japanese players have a lot of pride and I don’t see him putting his tail between his legs and giving up. He has something to prove and he will do his best to prove it.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

If he could improve his offense...

… he’d be extremely valuable, the guy the Cubs thought they were getting.

I’d love to see that. I just don’t expect it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

isn't there evidence

of more success in the MLB in the second year coming from Japan? Based on getting used to travel, longer season and better pitching. I don’t think Dome is gone next year either.

by cubbiefanTN on Oct 20, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quit talking about my sample size!

I’ve been told size doesnt matter! :)

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 20, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

declined?

sure his BA was down, but his OBA went up by 40 points and his SLG went up by 160 (!!), .424 in the first half, .586 in the 2nd half. his OPS for the second half was an insane .955. i see no decline.

Tennis is to artillery and air strikes what football is to infantry and attrition. - David Foster Wallace

by McNallyish on Oct 20, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

edmonds, that is

Tennis is to artillery and air strikes what football is to infantry and attrition. - David Foster Wallace

by McNallyish on Oct 20, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Have Cubs Given Up On Pie?

Ideally, we would love to have Pie hit better at the big league level and have him as the full-time centerfielder. Have the Cubs given up on that idea based on Pie’s poor hitting performance last season? You’ve got to be concerned about how well Edmonds will perform next season when he’s a year older. I doubt Edmonds will replicate the success of 2008. The Cubs can get more good years out of Johnson than Edmonds.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 20, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still like Pie.

But again, Lou doesn’t (despite the addition of Pie to the playoff roster). And when Lou doesn’t like someone… eventually, you can say goodbye.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe it's time for higher-ups in the organization to put their feet down

I think a Johnson/Pie platoon could be very productive, and Pie is much cheaper than Edmonds.

Of course, I doubt anyone will actually tell Lou what to do.

by dr stabbingworth on Oct 20, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see this, too.

But, knowing Lou’s discomfort level with Pie, I have a hard time disagreeing with Al (and others) who believe it’s highly likely that Felix will be dealt.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is the great drawback of Lou -

he limits the players that can succeed on your club. Raul Ibanez couldn’t hit under Lou during his ages 24-28 years. We’ll be regretting the loss of Pie for years.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lou's doghouse

I am not sure that I see Lou’s doghouse, or his dislike of Pie and Fukudome, as being as big a deal as seems to be the consensus.

Fukudome struggled in September, but was still in the lineup in October. After two games of hitless ball, he was still used as a pinch-hitter in an important situation in game 3.

Similar situation on Pie. He was given a chance at the beginning of the year, then Edmonds came on board and clearly Pie was bumped out. I didn’t see that as a “Lou doesn’t like Pie” statement as much as jumping at a good opportunity. Then, Pie was kept on the postseason roster which has to be viewed as something of a vote of confidence (even if there are obvious PR/defensive replacement arguments that can be made in his favor that don’t speak to his overall skills).

So basically I would just argue that we should be cautious in simply all buying into the groupthink that:
a) Lou has an inescapable doghouse
b) Pie and Fukudome are in that doghouse.

Note that I am not arguing for the same CF/RF opening day starters in 09 as 08.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Oct 20, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's more on this conversation below.

Here, I am less talking about the doghouse and more talking about the fact that some players seem to see their performance suffer under Lou’s management style.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, about coaching...

… whether Davis and Listach are “ahead” of Sandberg is really irrelevant. Yes, Listach is a fine managerial prospect. But Sandberg has opened some eyes in the organization in the last year. Being a 1B coach is only a start — he could move into being a bench coach after that and then be a manager.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

When I say ahead, I don't mean managing higher-level teams

From what I’ve read, the team looks at them as being closer to MLB ready than Sandberg. But then, you certainly could have some inside insight on this.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've heard rumblings about that, yes.

Both Davis and Sandberg could become major league coaches. I’m not sure exactly how many managerial openings there will be this offseason — so far, it seems only Milwaukee has one — but Pat Listach may get offered a managing job in the next year or so and I don’t think the Cubs would stand in his way.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just to clarify

You’ve heard rumblings that Davis and Listach are ahead, or that Sandberg’s moved up?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

About Sandberg impressing the brass.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe this goes without saying

But would this be naming the Cubs way of naming Lou’s successor before he leaves?

If this is the case, I hope Lou is sure he is done after 2010. That situation could get sticky…

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 20, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou will be 67 in 2010.

I’m pretty sure he’s done.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al, why will Sinatro go to Seattle?

Did I miss something?
In what capacity will he go there? Do you have any assumption of whom will be GM there? Will that person ask for Sinatro or is there something more to this?

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just a rumor, I've heard.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Deep Goat. The dude’s a ledgend on this blog!

by Rev Gunia on Oct 20, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why are you assuming it's a dude?

I have never once mentioned this individual’s gender.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Probably because

you don’t refer to the individual as Deep Goatess ;)

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 20, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

“Goatess”? Never heard that term before.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh my God, it's Carrie Muskat!

Ewwwwwww!!!

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, it's not.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

perhaps not...

but you wouldn’t tell us if we did happen to guess it, now would you Al?

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 20, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

I’ve repeatedly said I will not reveal this individual’s identity and I won’t. Ever.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

sounds like it's Muskat to me...

looks like you’ve been in bed with the enemy this whole time. shameful.

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 20, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ewwwwwww!!!!

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm getting a mental picture now that just isn't right.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Duh!

Who ever heard of a female goat? They all have those Amish beards, don’t they?

by Rev Gunia on Oct 20, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course you have - a nanny goat. You know, you hire them

to look after your kids.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very well done Al

My only concern would be trading away Marshal, with Harden’s history of injury he is good insurance policy to step in the rotation in case someone gets hurt.

"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"

by MerlinDog on Oct 20, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Chad Gaudin made 34 starts for the A's in 2007.

He could, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good Point

I forgot he was a starter in Oakland.

"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"

by MerlinDog on Oct 20, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well thought out Al

a real “thinking” plan. The point on not blowing up the team is right on. Subtle changes will be made. I was mulling around the thought of requiring Lee to swing for the fences a little more, lower the average and increase power, maybe in the 5 or 6 hole. I hate to see him go but maybe it’s time. The trade for Nolasco would be awesome. Let’s get that one done, an quick because many teams would like to have him.

Good plan, well thought out, let’s see how it plays out.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 20, 2008 8:48 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm with you

Everyone likes D Lee, but I think the time is right to trade him.

Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!

by Ihatethecards on Oct 20, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's a guilty feeling

I’ve been quietly saying it to all my friends since the NLDS. If the Cubs make a “big move” this offseason, I think it’s to move DLee. I feel terrible saying it, but yeah I think it’s time.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 20, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

He saves a lot of bad throws

and that stat doesn’t show up in the box score.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 20, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know

and you are preaching to the Choir, but I agree, I think its time to trade him.

Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!

by Ihatethecards on Oct 20, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

we could always move Soriano back to second and DeRosa to SS. :P

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goodness!

Even the thought gives me nightmares!

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Especially if you are seated

on the first base line in rows 1-10.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good post

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Al.

It seems that once again Lou and Jim are in the market for a leadoff hitter, regardless that leadoff is not a position. So I have to believe that that would impact whatever other moves are made.

You do have a number of shrewd suggestions: getting Cain and Hinshaw and flipping Cain with Pie for Nolasco, especially. Obviously either Cain or Nolasco would be wonderful additions to an already strong starting rotation. Nolasco was completely dominant the second half of 2008, he’s young, and has secret sauce stuff.

One of my worries with your 2009 lineup is that especially with position players it is clearly designed to win now and not compete for several years — having old guys like Millar, Edmonds, Blanco, etc., while trading away young talent like Pie. OTOH, maybe the veteran presence of guys like Millar can translate into a better postseason performance than we’ve witnessed the past few years, especially if Millar can keep the team loose.

You’re also right about Lou’s end-of-regular-season and playoff foibles. This point has been made elsewhere, but by treating the end of the season differently (resting regulars, using only relievers for one game, etc.) he sent the message that the playoffs were different — no longer could the Cubs just go out and play good baseball like they had all year long, but likely felt that it was different and had to address the pressure put on them by the media and the fans for past failures that were in no wise their responsibility.

I have to ask about your strong belief that Fukudome will head back to Japan. Is this a hunch or have you heard murmurs from Deep Goat or other sources? Is there precedent for such a move?

by John Q Freejazz on Oct 20, 2008 8:50 AM CDT reply actions  

There's no precedent for such a move.

It seemed to me that Fukudome wasn’t happy most of the year — missed his family more than other Japanese players. It’s mostly a hunch based on how deep Fukudome is in Lou’s doghouse. We have seen evidence of how once you get there, Lou apparently lobbies Hendry heavily to get such players off his team (Michael Barrett, Scott Eyre, etc.) no matter what their possible value could be.

I just have a feeling Lou may be doing this, or will once the organizational meetings start today.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Always wondered...

If missing his family was such a big deal, why wasn’t the family able to visit frequently? It’s not as if he’s from Cuba or something :)… anyone know…. is there some goofy travel restrictions going on here?

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 20, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

No.

In fact, his family was here quite a bit during the season. But even doing that is different from him being in his home country. Japan’s a very different culture from the USA and it seemed Dome had trouble adjusting.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks Al...

so it’s both the family thing, and the cultural thing. gotcha.

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 20, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Homesick?

I doubt his slumping at the plates was from being homesick. I’d say his slumping at the plate just made him even more homesick.

by TheHawkRules on Oct 20, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

He just needs a BFF

Let’s get Ichiro to roam CF next season. Should be easy right?

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 20, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Piece of pie. Easy as cake.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are you asking for political asylum

or any other kind? (I know that movie too).

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 20, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe Sori can lend Dome one of his BFF's on Facebook....?

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Oct 20, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, we can just trade Matt Sinatro for Ichiro.

"That’s what I love about my skip, man. He’ll tell you that you suck...I know I suck. We know we suck...Yeah, we suck. But we’ll see who sucks at the end."
- Gary Sheffield

by DrGalazkiewicz on Oct 20, 2008 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

So maybe he'll make that adjustment.

I can’t see the Cubs just dumping him after one rough year

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I forget his name but...

where is our BCB-Japan correspondent? What was his take?

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Oct 20, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dragonsfanatic?

He hasn’t posted much since the playoffs.

by sue369 on Oct 20, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the frequency of his posts...

…seemed to decline in tandem with Kosuke’s batting average. Can’t say I blame him.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

well...

he did say that the Dragons had a fantastic season so his attention was elsewhere. Go Dragons! (At least I think it was the Dragons)

All generalizations are false.

by Emelie on Oct 20, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Dragons are currently in the 2nd round of the playoffs...

… the equivalent of the LCS, trailing Yomiuri 1-0.

The Japan Series starts November 1. (Remember, they have mostly domed stadiums over there.)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lou's Managing: Integrity of Game Issues

During the last week of the regular season, Lou gave the regulars too much rest in games that meant a lot to the Mets and Brewers. Perhaps, the Cubs got their just desserts by getting swept by the Dodgers. The Cubs should have had their “real” players out there for every game down the stretch against playoff contending teams.

I admired Larry Dierker and the Astros for playing their regulars the whole extra-inning game against the Cubs in contest 162 of the 1998 season, when the Cubs were battling for the wild card. The Astros won that game, which eventually forced the Cubs to play that one-game playoff against the Giants that year.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 20, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

Yes, two players — DeRo and Soto — were banged up and needed the rest.

The rest of the team should have gotten one day off — the day after the clincher, that’s traditional — then got back to work. And the spring-training pitching staff that threw the last day of the season was a disgrace.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

The pitching is the one that bugged me the most

Marquis should have started game 161. No way does one relief appearance get him any more ready to pitch in relief the next week than a start would have.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

Not only should he have started, he should have gone his usual — well, however long he could have gone. Lou played game 161 like a spring training game. Stupid.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

And while it’d be stupid for the team to say who they’d rather play, I think most of us wanted the Mets, whose pitching staff was in disarray.

Granted, the Cubs wouldn’t have beaten the Mud Hens the way they played against the Dodgers — but this sentiment was before the fact.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't upset by the rest for players.

The Cubs have a lot of older players, the offense seemed to disappear in September, not just that last week, and Lou had already ridden the Staff too hard during the season.

The playoffs are different by the short series. There’s no way around that. To me this team’s failings were just an extension of their mediocre play at the time, in part from age. The Manager totally F’d up tat first game by leaving in Dempster too long. in a best of 3 you don’t wait it out to see if your starter can get it going. Lou totally screwed this up as he mishandled the Staff most of the year.

Unless this team really improves its talent base for 2009 I am not as optimistic that they can overcome the shortcomings of their Manager and the age of the roster. I am not saying they will become a lousy team, but with only minor tweaks and a Manager who doesn’t look so hot, it could be much closer to .500. than 90.

by DudeVf11 on Oct 20, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

What would you have said if

DeRosa had pulled his calf muscle and Soto aggrivated his hand injury to the points where neither could play in the NLDS?

Don’t get me wrong – I don’t think you are completely off base here – but there is a middle ground between uber-rest and playing every player every inning of the remaining games.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

As I noted above...

… DeRo and Soto were banged up and needed the rest. The rest of the team should have been in there every day.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let's see how the Phillies do after their week away from competitive baseball

My hunch is they come out flat while the Rays come out stoked.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Oct 20, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Which is what happened to last year's Rockies.

This new postseason schedule sucks for any team that sweeps the LCS, or makes quick work, as the Phillies did. They get far too much time off.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

True, too.

But I’m betting the time off catches up with the Phillies this week. Had the Rockies not had to sit for several days, maybe they’d have stayed hot — or at least hot enough so they wouldn’t have been swept.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think the Phillies are a better team than the Rockies were last year.

Everyone seems to underestimate how well they pitch. That said, I don’t think they’re as good as the Rays. Anything can happen in a short series, though.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very Thorough, but youre not getting Matt Cain for D.Lee

They wouldnt even trade Cain for Prince Fielder. Cain is 2 years younger and has no history of injuries, like Nolasco, and has performed admirably for some miserable SF teams. If the Giants are to deal one of their two cornerstones, Lincecum being the other, they can do a lot better than a 34 year old first baseman with declining power.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 9:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Then throw in a prospect or two.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or trade him to the Angels, who will be looking for a first baseman when Teixeira leaves.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

For Whom?

Do the Angels have any young pitchers that would then fit into the Cain to Florida deal? Or would they go for Figgins?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your convinced the Angels won't sign Tex?

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

We dont have enough top prospects

To get a 24 yr old pitcher of his caliber

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're underrating Cain on both ends.

SF simply isn’t going to include Cain in a deal in which D. Lee is the centerpiece of the players they’re receiving.

Cain and Lincecum are the only two Giants who are approaching “untouchable” status – Lincecum obviously more so than Cain. But neither guy is going anywhere unless Sabean is absolutely blown away. And Lee + (take your pick of any 5 minor league players in the organization) isn’t even enough.

And on the other side, I wouldn’t trade Cain straight up for Nolasco – let alone throw in a prospect like Pie. Cain is quite good.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed on Cain.

If we get Cain, we keep him – he’s a star. On the other side, though, I refuse to underappreciate Sabean’s ability to make bad trades for aging veterans. If only we had A.J Pierzynski to trade him…

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fukudome

Somewhere I heard that other Japanese players struggle their first year and then turn it around the second. The grueling schedule, the travel and being away from home all take their toll. When they come back for the second season, they know what to expect and can better handle it. I’d probably give Fukudome one more year.

Javon Ringer for Heisman!

by Spartan1979 on Oct 20, 2008 9:13 AM CDT reply actions  

I believe that struggle the first year is a myth.

H. Matsui was .287/.353/.435 with 16 Hr his “rookie” year and .298/.390/.522 his second and 31 Hr his second. Didn’t struggle, but improved.

Ichiro was .350/.381/.457 with 34 2Bs his “rookie” and .321/.388/.425 his second with 27 2Bs. Measurably better the first year.

Kas Matsui was .272/.331/.396 his first year and .255/.300/.352 his second playing fewer games.

Nomo was dominant his first year plus and faded back.

I agree the first year is grueling, but the major signing comparisons don’t support the theory. From the comparisons, it seems Fukudome could just as easily post worse numbers as improve.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think you need to worry

No one is going to take Fukudome’s contract after last year and I have never heard of anyone accepting a “buyout” of a contract. He would just be giving millions of dollars away. Fukudome will be a cub next year.

by JonH on Oct 20, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very well thought out.

I agree with the concept of tweaking and avoiding major free agent expenditures. I also agree the big three need to be split up and that Lee is the easiest to move.

I would rather have Cain and Pie than convert both for Nolasco, but I understand and respect your opinion.

I hope you are correct on Fukudome. If he can’t produce, unloading that contract would be the biggest of the offseason movement.

This offseason will probably be more interesting to watch than 06/07 and 07/08 as it’s shouldn’t be about the 1 big signing.

All the tap dancing involved in multiple smaller moves and resigning strengths should keep Jim busy all winter.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 9:14 AM CDT reply actions  

Millar had 20 HRs!?

That was the most surprising part of this post, I would’ve guessed he had half that.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

What about defense?

The difference in defense between the 2007 and 2008 teams was significant and in my opinion, played a key role in the improvement of the tea,

If you bring in below average defense players like Kevin Millar and Aubrey Huff and if I recall correctly, Luke Scott wasn’t very good defensively with the Astros (and more of a left fielder, not right fielder) you will allow the other team to score more runs.

My question is, if you weaken a team defensively to try to improve the offense, do you really make it better? I’m not sure that defense is given enough weight in this scenario that Al laid out.

Here’s another thought, you would also add age to the team adding players like Millar and Huff. The older your players, the more likely you are to have injuries.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 9:20 AM CDT reply actions  

Personally, Luke Scott used to scare the hell out of me when he was in Houston. He’s a ballplayer.

by leothelip on Oct 20, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well . . .

If we trade enough defense for offense such that the end result is that we still have a 97-win team, but one that can hit in the playoffs, I’ll take it.

by madcow256 on Oct 20, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow, madcow talkin' to cowsare cool. This is great!

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is a moooving experience.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cud you guys moooove on?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can tell you guys are gonna milk this cow thing for all it's worth.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

It just seems like the bulk of the emphasis in the posts today is on offense.

Stopping the other team from scoring is as much or even more important than scoring, depending on the point in the game.

Putting an all around team on the field in 2008 is why the team improved from 85 wins in 2007 to 97 wins in 2008. Their defense (particularly their outfield defense) played a big part in the increase in wins.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Luke Scott definitely has a RF arm,

though Markakis’s is better. Range-wise, he’s not the greatest, but range in LF is the same in RF unless you play in a very asymmetrical park (i.e., Fenway).

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very well thought out Al...

…and very interesting indeed. This can go in a lot of different directions, and my biggest hope is Hendry and Lou follow some of the ole Herb Brooks logic in putting a team together:

“I’m not looking for the best players, I’m looking for the right ones.”

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 9:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Backloaded contracts

Have you accounted for all of the raises due to the people we expect to keep? Soriano, Lilly, Ramirez, DeRosa, Harden and Zambrano are all getting raises totally about $17M.

by lohroffc on Oct 20, 2008 9:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Ah, you're right.

I didn’t account for that. Still, if all the other money moves I suggested come to pass, those backloaded deals become not so onerous.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Im not to sure about this

Especially the D. Lee for Cain bit which as mentioned before i seriously doubt that the Giants who have talked to Milwaukee about Fielder would want D. Lee.

Also, Im really concerned about the age of this team and the potential injuries that can pile up on an older ball club. Not to mention that the CF production this year was pretty much catching lightning in a bottle so to speak.

Also, another issue I see with the line-up is that Soriano probably still bats leadoff in that scenario and as we’ve seen that probably wont be a great idea.

We also have to take a minute and look at the potential Jake Peavy impact. Now if you believe some of the rumors, it is rumored that his favorite destinations could be St. Louis, Cubs, or Houston last I checked those are two teams that play in our division and certainly not going to be fun facing him several times a year for lord know how long.

Also, I think that the proposed line-up does lack speed and power as well as defense, Now I know not putting an all-star team on the field wins you championships, but niether does 9 butchers.

by Galvan316 on Oct 20, 2008 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

What lack of power?

Aubrey Huff hit for more power last year than D-Lee, and Luke Scott had more than Fukudome.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I really underestimated Huff's production

I guess if we are talking about a D. Lee replacement that would be a suitable guy in Huff. I guess it pays to look at stats

by Galvan316 on Oct 20, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look at more than one year's stats, though.

For the three years preceeding this one, Huff was a league average hitter. So, there’s two options:

1) At 31 years old, Huff had a fluke season that he won’t repeat next year.
2) At 31 years old, Huff has reestablished himself as a better-than-average hitter.

I’m betting #1.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't Huff the guy who had a blow-up with John Gibbons

about not playing every day? I think he has a reputation about bitching if he doesn’t play every day. That doesn’t bode well for him and Lou to get along if, as you suggest, he will be part of a platoon.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope, Huff played for Tampa Bay until he was traded to the Astros mid-season in 2006.

He then signed a 3 year deal with the Orioles in 2007.

I can’t think of the name of the player you are thinking of, I only remember he was traded to the Giants after being DFA’d by the Blue Jays. Not sure if he’s still playing MLB.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shea Hillenbrand (sp)???

Not positive…

"I love when they play that Go Cubs Win song."

by BMoney79 on Oct 20, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's it!

Looks like he last played in MLB in 2007 for both the Dodgers and Angels.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for correcting me.

I feel better about Al’s proposal. (Not really, but at least from the clubhouse fit angle.)

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Huff and Scott have some potential

but I’m not sure why we’d trade for both when we could sign the likes of Abreu/Ibanez without giving up the trade chips for both.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

DeRo hit for more power last year than DLee,

.481 vs. .462 SLG. Does that make DeRo a power hitter, or DLee a singles hitter?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or does it mean

that DeRo had a good year for his talent level and DLee had a bad year for his talent level? Of course, I’m bullish on both DeRo and DLee for 2009.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whod platoon with Huff?

Im confused on that one, assuming Huff hits against the righties. Who bats against the lefties, Millar’s 08 splits against lefties were pretty bad: .238/.341/.395, and he’s 37 years old, so you cant really rely on what he did when he was ten years younger. And to give up Marshall, Cedeno, Wuertz and Hoffpauir for Huff and not have suitable platoon partner doesnt add up to me.

You might as well trade Lee for whatever you can get for him and put Adam Dunn at first, his defense cant be any worse than Huff’s who hasnt been a full time 1B either. And his power and OBP numbers vs lefties are better than Huffs as well.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 9:33 AM CDT reply actions  

One more note...

…I would be really surpised if the Cubs brought Edmonds back.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

Really?

Why? What’s the other plan? Lou doesn’t like Pie and I suspect Hendry will deal him.

The only other option would be to find another RF and platoon Fukudome with Johnson, but then there’s the problem of Fukudome’s odd splits.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too much risk...

…with injury. I also think it is likely that you get less production because he has physically slowed down.

I admire what he accomplished this year, and he was one of the more productive power hitters the Cubs had, but I think he was motivated to show a new team he could still do it, and I tend to think that motivation might not be there next year.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Money might motivate him.

Or, the chance to win one more ring. I suspect if the Cubs had won it this year, Edmonds would have retired.

But maybe being part of a Cubs champion would entice him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pie will be dealt...

…if it fills a hole, but I would not be completely shocked to see a platoon of Johnson and Pie if he can’t be used for trade bait. If Pie keeps showing he can’t hit major league pitching, you would have to address his spot at the trade deadline.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Lou doesn't like..."

This was one of the themes of your post. e.g. “We could upgrade at SS, BUT LOU” and “Fukudome, BUT LOU…”

Is it an option for Jim Hendry to take control and tell Lou to rethink some things?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly...

Lou won’t be around forever, trading Pie (who has potential) b/c Lou doesn’t like him could come back to bite us. For all we know, Lou could possible retire after next year.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 20, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

But what are you going to do with Pie in 2009?

He is out of options. If Lou doesn’t want him on the roster, Hendry will have to trade him — there’s no place to stash him. He wouldn’t clear Outright Waivers in a million years.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's such a difficult situation, . . .

 . . . this deal with Pie. I’d be curious to know how some other players who fell into similar situations earlier in their careers faired in the long run. That whole ‘too good too young and pushed at WAYYY too soon an age’ pile of garbage.

Because, track with me . . . if Pie takes four more years to find his stroke, he’ll only be 27! That means he could be still be having a great career around 2020.

It’s too bad that, at his age, he’s to a point with a team where he’s out of options with a team.

"From childhood's hour I have not been as others were - I have not seen as others saw." - Alone, Edgar Allan Poe

by Edgewood on Oct 21, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't need . . .

 . . ‘with a team’ twice. Sorry about the wasted e-ink.

"From childhood's hour I have not been as others were - I have not seen as others saw." - Alone, Edgar Allan Poe

by Edgewood on Oct 21, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think people overestimate Lou's power over Jim.

Jim is going to sign and trade who he wants, albeit with some input from Lou. Lou will play who he wants, and probably without any input from Jim. If Jim wants a new SS, he’ll go and get him.

Everyone states the love Lou has for theriot, but i think that’s overstated. Yes, placing a call for his inclusion on the all star team was peculiar, but I don’t recall ever seeing the claim that he was the only guy he vouched for. And if cedeno was in the doghouse like some people have claimed, well of course it’s gonna look like Lou is in love with theriot. He’s the only other SS we have!

Yes, there is some truth to the doghouse of Lou’s. But the last month or two Lou made multiple comments about Kosuke needing to play better and subsequently lessening his at bats, and then voila, he’s starting games 1 & 2. I think the “doghouse” is a tad overblown by some.

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe the whole idea of the relationship

between the General Manager and Manager is to work together.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

100% agree

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely on the doghouse myth

I really haven’t seen it.

What is the evidence that Lou doesn’t like Pie or Fukudome? They have each been given multiple chances, and the last move that Lou made with both was “positive” (PHing Fukudome and giving him a chance in games 1 and 2, and keeping Pie on the roster).

I really believe the doghouse idea is a bit of a myth. This doesn’t mean I am arguing for them to both be starters in 09 though.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Oct 20, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's Lou's power over Jim so much as Jim's modus operendi

Hendry is a great GM to work for as a manager – he gets you the players you want. This seems to be evidenced fairly well by the change in type of players Hendry has acquired under the Lou and Dusty eras. Dusty wouldn’t have sought Fukudome and Lou wouldn’t want Juan Pierre.

As for Dome – I don’t think he was in Lou’s doghouse until the playoffs. And I don’t even think it’s so much the doghouse with Dome as it is that Lou doesn’t believe in Dome any more.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

But did Lou push for Fukudome either?

I’m not saying he didn’t want the guy; but from what I recall, assistant gm Randy Bush had been on that guy for quite some time. I think we grab fukudome regardless of who’s managing.

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

The whole organization had a hard-on for him for about 4 years...

and with good reason. He’s a stellar defensive outfielder, is a hard worker, and loves the game. The guy is a winner, with a proven track record. I expect him to turn it around dramatically next year. I’d be willing to bet that he is working on it now.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Because of Lou’s many years of experience and stubborn attitude people make it seem like he’s running the show. Jim has a mind of his own too, and for better or worse he’s gonna use it.

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well thought out for the most part

However, the Nolasco / Cain deal doesn’t make sense for a number of reasons.

  1. - I really, really don’t think the Giants could trade Cain for Lee. It just doesn’t make any sense, and seems like an idea more likely to have emerged from Phil Rogers ass than reality.
  2. - Once you have Cain, why trade him and your one of your better prospects for a pitcher of equal value ( Nolasco’s ERA+ last season was 118 vs Cain’s 114)?

That said, I like your idea of replacing Lee with the underrated Huff. However, I don’t think there’s any need to platoon him – he’s worse against lefties but not terribly so (.752
OPS vs .989). Even if you can’t get Luke Scott back in return I like this deal.

I would also not count on Edmonds repeating his 2008 performance. Ditch him and platoon Pie with Johnson instead.

by Wreckard on Oct 20, 2008 9:38 AM CDT reply actions  

I think Nolasco has more upside than Cain does.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd take Cain in a heartbeat

A Potential ace vs. a solid middle rotation type starter? Cain has ace potential. In the end, even with Nolasco, we are talking potential as well. Cain has better raw stuff, Nolasco is a bit more consistent right now, but Cain has the better fastball, and imo, a better breaking ball as well.

Maybe Cain doesn’t develop … but I’d take the chance on him vs. Nolasco any day,

That said, it’s a well thought out plan, but I don’t think there is any way the Giants ponder a Cain for Lee deal, even if we offered up, say, Vitters. I really don’t. They’ve got enough young hitting in the pipeline to not have to give up a potential ace. They also have some monetary flexibility this offseason. Furthermore, they could probably get Dan Uggla and perhaps more for Matt Cain if they wanted, which would be a more worthwhile move.

I’m not even sure the Giants would shop Jon Sanchez for Dan Uggla, let alone Jon Sanchez for Derrek Lee, but if we were talking about scenarios with the Giants, my realistic wish would be Jon Sanchez, who could either fill in as the 5th starter or be a lefty pen arm. If Sanchez can develop the breaker a bit, and be a bit more consistent, I think his upside is better than Nolasco’s. Even if Sanchez doesn’t develop, he becomes a power lefty pen arm.

by toonsterwu on Oct 24, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good article but...

…with the postseason being the number one problem for the Cubs, there’s no way I get rid of our #1 playoff hitter. Lee was most definitely not the problem in 07 or 08. Huff has never played in the postseason and Millar is a career .242 hitter in the postseason. I just can’t see this.

If (I think that’s a big if) you can get Kosuke to go away, then it shouldn’t be to hard to find a RF upgrade. Even if Kosuke stays, I think he will be better than last year. Any attempt to move Cedeno is fine with me. Millar might make a good replacement for Ward.

As far as pitching goes, I think Marquis will likely be disposed of one way or another, effectively making room for Guzman. I think Samardzjia will get a shot at starting during Spring Training and if it doesn’t work, Marshall can take over.

I kind of look at this like they used to tell you as a kid. If you get lost, just stay in one place. If you throw the exact same team out there for the next 4 or 5 years I think one year they’ll break through. Now obviously you can’t just throw them back out there (for contractual reasons) but this was the best team in the NL all year. I’d like to see them take another shot with these guys (at least the principal ones).

If I couldn’t move Pie, I’d platoon him with Reed. Hopefully, he hits a little and emerges as a star or becomes moveable.

"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard

by TXCub on Oct 20, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Our #1 playoff hitter?

It made no difference. I suspect D-Lee would bring a fair amount in trade from several teams, not just the Giants.

I’m not convinced Samardzija can start in the major leagues; his stuff and temperament seem better suited to the bullpen.

Guzman — now there’s a possible starter, though he too seems better off in the pne.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pne = pen

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Guzman could ever stay healthy starting every 5 days

His stuff can really help us in the bullpen tho.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 5-1 (1-1). Next up at Texas. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree about Lee but...

…if we’re trying to fix the problem of postseason offense, how can your solution involve getting rid of our best source of playoff offense and not include adding a proven playoff hitter. Sorry Al, I just can’t see it. It seems you started out with trying to find a way to fit Kevin Millar on this team. To me that is a mistake. Millar may have been a clubhouse benefit for the Sox in 04 but not at the expense of his play on the field. If we can have 04 Millar, then great. But he has pretty much been in constant decline since then.

"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard

by TXCub on Oct 20, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lee has been lousy in the postseason.

A couple of bases-empty bloop doubles in the gap in the 2008 NLDS do not turn a poor postseason hitter into a good postseason hitter.

He failed in every high-leverage AB in 2007 and 2008, and stranded literally every baserunner he saw. Zero RBI! He was also terrible in 2003, with the exception of the double that ended our season.

The D-Lee defenders on this site are getting more creative all the time. It used to be his batting average, until that sunk. Then it was his defense, which is fading under every available metric, but which is apparently the only thing keeping the rest of our infield from becoming 2006 BJ Upton. Now, it’s the fact that he got 2 singles in NLDS Game 3 2007, and a couple of bases-empty doubles in NLDS 2008.

Lee didn’t come through in the NLDS, and he was below average in the regular season. If Hendry can find a taker – A big “if”, in my opinion, it has to be done immediately.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

You don't like Lee?

I don’t think I’ve read that on here anywhere. :-(

by sue369 on Oct 20, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't you have a Cubs victory parade to attend?

I mean, at which point are we allowed to let reality encroach on our perception of the team’s performance? :)

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey, now.

NOBODY produced on offense this year or last. Lee got more hits than anyone else, I think. With Soriano going 1-for what, 23? And Riot being riot, where, exactly were Lee’s RBIs supposed to come from?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I posted a recap below.

In the last 2 division series, he’s 1-10 with runners on base, and the 1 hit was a ground-ball-with-eyes single with Fontenot on 1st in 2008 Game 3.

In the other 9 at-bats with men on base, he has 4 K, 3 GIDP, a popout and a 6-3.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

did anyone else

do better?

Other than DeRosa’s HR this year, and Soto’s HR last year?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know.....I know

piclk me……pick me!!!! The answer is NO.

by sue369 on Oct 20, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

DeRosa, for starters.

In 2008, he was 4-12, with 2 doubles and a home run, and 4 RBI, and it took an 0-4 game 3 to bring him down to .333 on the series. Going into Game 3, he had 4 of our 5 RBI.

In 2007, he had an OBP of .500, and again hit .333 – I think he made something like 2 outs with men on base in the entire series, although one of those at-bats was a backbreaking GIDP with the bases loaded.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, so then...

Lee was our second best hitter in the playoffs, right?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, let's ride him out of town on a rail!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Overall, sure.

And I never argued otherwise — in fact, the entire premise of my original post is that he was horrible in high-leverage playoff at-bats, despite the fact that his overall line looked pretty good.

Which is why his failure with men on base is so excruciating.

He was 4-5 with the bases empty in 2007, and 0-7 with runners on!

This year, he was 5-8 with the bases empty, and 1-4 with runners on.

And at no time through any of this did he hit for power. I really appreciate all that he did for the team, but I think that the record needs to be set straight about his Cubs playoff performance. Simply spouting off “10 for 23” doesnt’ even tell a portion of the whole story.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude......

we know how you feel about Lee. You don’t need to say it 453,967 more times. We get it already.

by sue369 on Oct 20, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah 6-11 was lousy...

….and a combined 10 for 23, that’s lousy. When you play on a team that isn’t hitting, you’re not going to get a lot of RBI’s. I don’t care how you package it, going 10 for 23 over 6 games isn’t lousy. It far surpasses any other hitter on the team.

"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard

by TXCub on Oct 20, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Every high-leverage AB and literally every baserunner he saw? Come on. Your

arguments carry a lot more weight if you speak realistically. He has had a rough couple of years, but let’s not be ridiculous.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

In the playoffs, yes.

I suppose the argument could be made that every playoff AB is “high leverage”, but Lee has zero postseason RBI for the Cubs.

2007 Game 1
AB 1 (1st inning, 0-0, 1 out, runner on 1st)- strikeout
AB 2 (3rd inning, 0-0), 2 outs, runner on 2nd) – strikeout
AB 3 (6th inning, 0-1, no outs, bases empty) – single
AB 4 (7th inning, 1-1, 2 outs, bases empty) – strikeout

2007 Game 2
AB 1 (1st inning, 0-0, 1 out, runner on 1st) – grounded into double play, Theriot out at 2nd
AB 2 (3rd inning, 2-4, 1 out, bases empty) – walk
AB 3 (5th inning, 2-6, 1 out, runner on 1st) – popout to SS
AB 4 (7th inning, 4-8, 1 out, bases empty) – single
AB 4 (9th inning, 4-8, 1 out, runners on 1st and 2nd) – strikeout

2007 Game 3
AB 1 (1st inning, 0-2, 2 out, bases empty) – single
AB 2 (3rd inning, 0-2, 1 out, bases empty) – single
AB 3 (5th inning, 1-3, no out, runner on 2nd) – groundout to SS, runner does not advance
AB 4 (7th inning, 1-4, 1 out, runner on 1st) – grounded into double play, Theriot out at 2nd

There’s your 2007 NLDS. 4 singles, every one of which came with the bases empty. With men on base, he was 0-7 with 2 GIDP, 3 strikeouts, a 6-3 and a popout.

As for 2008:

Game 1
AB 1 (1st inning, 0-0, 2 outs, bases empty) – walk
AB 2 (3rd inning, 2-0, 1 out, bases empty) – single
AB 3 (5th inning, 2-4, 1 out, runner on first) grounded into double play, Fuku out at 2nd
AB 4 (8th inning, 2-6, no outs, bases empty) – groundout 6-3

Game 2
AB 1 (1st inning, 0-0, 1 out, runner on 2B) – strikeout
AB 2 (4th inning, 0-5, no outs, bases empty) – single
AB 3 (7th inning, 0-7, no outs, bases empty) – flyout (9)
AB 4 (9th inning, 1-10, no outs, bases empty) – double

Game 3
AB 1 (1st inning, 0-0, 2 outs, bases empty) – double
AB 2 (3rd inning, 0-2, 2 outs, runner on 1st) “seeing eye” single to 3B, runner advances to 2B
AB 3 (5th inning, 0-2, 2 outs, bases empty) – strikeout
AB 4 (8th inning, 0-3, no outs, bases empty) – double

Definitely better than 2007, largely b/c of Game 3. And it’s not his fault he lead off so many innings in Game 2. However, he’s still looking for his first RBI, and failed in every big spot in 2 straight years of NLDS losses. He’s grounded into 3 double plays in 6 NLDS games, and has ‘come through’ with men on base once, and it was, of course, a single that didn’t result in any runs.

I like the rate stats in the abstract, but the splits are terrible. His overall performance in the last 6 postseason games has been excruciating to watch.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now try to imagine what some of those singles could have produced...

with a lineup that included an actually leadoff man that can get on base when you need him to.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

With men on base, we've seen a different result.

Obviously, small sample sizes and all that. But Lee saw plenty of at-bats with men on base – 7 in 2007, 10 total – and he failed almost every time – he struck out 4 times, hit into a double play 3 times, popped out once, grounded out once (which would have been a double play, were the runner on 1st), and, granted, had a seeing-eye single.

Maybe he has the yips.

This is what I meant by failure to deliver in “high leverage” at-bats in the 2 division series. I’m well aware that he had a bunch of bases empty singles, and that he hit a double when we were losing 10 to 1.

But if he’d come through and driven in even one of the baserunners he’d seen, maybe the Cubs could have gotten something going. Instead, it’s Ks and GIDPs.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

he could have been like almost every other Cub, and fail with runners on and off the bases.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

If his overall performance in the last 6 postseason games has been excruciating to watch, I imagine you must’ve gouged your eyes out watching everyone else.

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

He also failed to...

…leave a 15% tip for his waitress at Denny’s and didn’t use his turn signal when changing lanes on the Kennedy! I mean, come on, the man has GOT TO GO!

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I told you once, I told you a million freaking times - don't exaggerate!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've heard of bloop singles...

…but this is the first time that I have heard the term “bloop doubles in the gap”.

I would like to have more of these “bloop doubles in the gap” hitters, please.

by vonde6 on Oct 20, 2008 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great job Al! Thanks for all you hardwork!

I agree with most of your points and also believe that Lee will be playing first base for the Giants next year. I think you may be right about Fukodome as well, he looked miserable throughout most of the year and may want a clean break and head back to Japan.

Unfortunately, Pie is in Lou’s doghouse as well as Cedeno and both will be traded but with Scott and DeRosa in right the outfield defense really would be a concern of mine. I keep hearing they want to move Soriano from the leadoff spot but I am not sure if Theriot fits the bill in their eyes or this would have happened last year. This leads me to believe they will be looking for a leadoff hitter this winter.

I would like for the Cubs to make a push for Peavy rather than sign Dempster to multi-year because I would be leary of how he will fair over the next couple of years and the money would probably close to the same as peavy is already signed for.

by cubdreamer on Oct 20, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Whats the over/under for comments on this post?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 9:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Are we to include

potentially necessary overflow threads?

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 20, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting Analysis/Predictions

Quite a good read, much better than most of the other word jockeys at the major papers could have done… then again, you’re not taking kickbacks from the clubs ;-)

Anyway, I disagree with what you said about Derrek Lee. He still provides important defense on the team (albeit his numbers were down this year) and even his mediocre production is above and beyond what we can expect from many other players in the league. Plus I think Derrek is the face of the team. He’s an extremely public figure, and sort of embodies the “every guy” character Cubs fans are known for. Huff is certainly a great player (had him on a fantasy team this year, good production) I just don’t think a Huff/Millar platoon would be any better over 162+…

Also, there is no way this club gets rid of Fukudome. I’m not being a fanboy here, but that would be like letting the passengers know the ship is sinking once it hits the bottom… that type of gut-check reactionary business would be great to see (just from the team TAKING some drastic action to turn things around) but I think they give him one more year to prove himself, and whoever the new owner is will not pass up the marketing opportunities a Japanese player gives your team (see Ichiro, Matsui, Matsuzaka). I’m a huge Luke Scott fan, however I don’t think Fukudome is going anywhere, unless of course he repeats this year, next year.\

Finally… Ricky Nolasco?? Really? Is that how we develop players now? When they can’t produce, ship them off to a team with better coaching, then pay a ton more to get them back than we would have if we’d kept them? Well, it work for Maddux, I suppose. ;-)

Once again, great post, and a great read.

by lswaidz on Oct 20, 2008 10:03 AM CDT reply actions  

Nolasco should never have been traded in the first place.

That was the worst deal Hendry’s made in his entire time with the Cubs, and I think he’d admit it. It’s time to get him back.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

Shouldn’t have been traded for Pierre, yes. But let’s be honest. Nolasco has had two terrible years (one bad year and one year lost to injury) followed by a great year. It’s possible and even probable that the Cubs wouldn’t have had the patience to develop him anyway after the 2006/2007 he had.

Dontrelle Willis is a good example of judging to fast. However, as you have pointed out many times in the past, it’s not really about how good he becomes but that his trade value at that moment was higher than a Juan Pierre, even straight up (adding Pinto was insult to injury).

by Luis on Oct 20, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Correct.

However, at age 26 I’d be willing to take a chance that Nolasco really has established himself as a top-quality pitcher. On the Cubs, he’d be the 4th or 5th starter, taking pressure off him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Very smart comment.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right...

He shouldn’t have been traded… but immediate needs tend to outweigh long-term plans. However, that is contrary to a team like the Rays, who spent the last 10 years building a world champion (quote me, they’ll win it).

With that logic, let’s send Angel Guzman to another team for a few years and buy him back for the 2011 run! Maybe the team should look at how they’re developing prospects and spend some money pulling in guys who are capable of building an athlete and identifying true areas of talent.

by lswaidz on Oct 20, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Amen to that

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

"should never have been traded in the first place"

Why was he traded? Because Jim Hendry followed his manager’s wishes to get him exactly what he wanted. Maybe that’s the lesson that needs to be learned here – that Hendry should take more leadership and keep the players he believes in on the team.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe the trade occurred because of the "win now" philosophy.

This is a good example of why you need to be very careful when an organization trades some of the future for the present. (Ask Tiger fans about trading prospects for high priced veteran players.)

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doyle Alexander was a great pitcher. The Tigers only had to give up that

guy…. John something. I wonder whatever happened to him.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

He suffered an elbow injury requiring TJ surgery

and a shoulder injury requiring surgery.

They would have been better off with Marquis, who is never injured… :-)

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hendry panicked after he failed to get Furcal.

As much as I love to slam Dusty, I can’t really absolve Hendry from that trade in good conscience.

Hendry wanted his leadoff hitter – We’d won with Lofton in 03, and 2 years of Neifi and Patterson leading off were associated with the losses piling up.

Hendry wasn’t willing (or, perhaps, wasn’t allowed) to match the Dodgers’ offer for Furcal, and so he went after the “next best thing”, by massively overpaying for Juan Pierre, a player who has somehow managed to trick MLB GMs into believing that he is valuable for his entire career.

Hendry probably thought “fast centerfield leadoff man = division title”, and went out and got us a player who is literally incapable of doing anything but hitting high bouncers to 2B and beating out 3 in 10, and then running himself off the bases 2 of 3 times he tried to steal.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hendry was both willing... and was allowed to spend what he deemed neccessary

to get Furcal. Furcal simply took more money and less years, to maximize his FA potential.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did I miss it?

who replaces Ward?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 10:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Millar.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

I know you hate Hoff, but he’ll be Ward’s replacement. Mark it down.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 20, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bull

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't believe THAT at all.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Believe it Drew

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 20, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll print this page out and eat it if Hoff is on the major league roster next year.

If we’re lucky, we trad him. Otherwise, he’s back in iowa.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I gotta try that high fiber diet you're on Drew.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Up until this moment, I was ambivalent about the hoff.

Gotta say now I’m rooting for him to stick and the photographic evidence of your paper diet.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Careful Drew

Hoff’s career has passed the half-life, but he could be the Piggy of 2009.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hoff won't even be a Cub next year...

He’ll be traded in a package deal of some kind.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

While I agree with trading DLee

Keep in mind that not every first baseman can dig out the crap throws from Aramis and Theriot. DLee has made both of them look better the last few years.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 5-1 (1-1). Next up at Texas. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 10:26 AM CDT reply actions  

Point taken.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's why I considered the possibility of moving Aramis to 1B and DeRo (of the more accurate arm) to 3B.

If you’re hearing Lee could be moved, are you also hearing that Aramis could move across the diamond to fill that void? If all we’re getting at 1B is Huff/Millar or Ibanez, wouldn’t it make more sense to open up 2B to get Roberts or get Theriot off of SS?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's possible, I suppose.

But then who would you get to play 3B? Chone Figgins might work — and you could probably trade D-Lee to the Angels for him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

DeRosa is an excellent 3B.

Moving DeRosa to 3B allows you to do one of two things –
1. play Theriot at 2B and get a SS with a SS arm and SS range
2. get Roberts as is being rumored again.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point

Millar is a decent fielder from what I can remember, but Huff has primarily been a DH for the past 2 seasons (and probably should have been before that).

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 20, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is a "win now" sort of move.

Huff’s on the last year of his deal and Millar’s 37 years old. They’d be Cubs for one year — 2009. After that, you look for another answer at first base.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, obviously.

And it’s not like D-Lee would be a whole lot better than even a league-average 1B by 2010.

Truth be told, no matter who the Cubs’ primary 1B is, I’d rather keep Hoffpauir around for ‘09 and let him try to fill Ward’s shoes to start the season. Yes, I know, he’s too old to be considered a prospect, and yes, I know that his ‘08 performance might be attributable to small sample size – but he certainly hit well enough between Iowa and the big leagues to warrant another look. If it doesn’t work out, how hard could it be to trade for a good 1B/LF? And if it does work out, the Cubs have a low-salary, in-house replacement for Lee/Huff/whomever at 1B in 2010.

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 20, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is such a subjective, unrebuttable defense.

Lee’s zone rating is down, and his errors are up. But every Lee defender on this site (I’m not singling you out, sorry for the vitriol) is claiming that Lee is some kind of super-magician with the glove, saving the infield from total oblivion.

I’m absolutely not seeing it. Every MLB 1B is capable of picking a throw out of the dirt – I used to play the position, and can say with some confidence that every college and HS 1B gets almost all of them — and MLB players, even Aramis and Theriot, are making better throws across the diamond than your average NCAA or prep infield.

First, It’s not that rare or valuable of a skill, and second, I don’t believe that Lee is any better than your average MLB 1B at it. There are no stats to prove it either way.

I could point to Lee’s horrific failure to pick Theriot’s bouncer in 2008 NLDS Game 2, in which he somehow managed to contort his body such that the ball missed his glove, his leg, and his entire body on the way to the dugout as an example of Lee failing to pick a throw. I’m sure it happened a couple more times last year. Bringing in any capable MLB 1B is going to get us a guy who can pick throws out of the dirt.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well we actually agree on most things

DLee isn’t the defender he is still made out to be, but he is still a damn good one. Aramis got a whole lot better when his first baseman became Derrek Lee. Aubrey Huff is someone who wouldn’t be able to reach out and snag the short and low throws from our SS and 3B.

Please trade DLee is we are can snag a starter as good as Cain.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you thnk that every ML 1B can pick throws out of the dirt,

you’ve obviously never seen Jason Giambi or Prince Fielder play 1B.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, the stats simply don't bear this out.

If those 1B were so terrible at picking throws in the dirt, then you’d expect that their teams would incur more errors, right? Especially b/c these lousy fielding 1B can be anticipated to kick in a few errors of their own? (Or, in Howard’s case, 19?)

Here are some of those teams’ error totals for last year (yes, this includes more than 2B-SS-3B, but it’s largely representative, as the infield accounts for the bulk of most team’s errors:

Cubs – 99 errors
Brewers – 101 errors
Mets – 83 errors
Phils – 90 errors
Yankees – 83 errors

It just can’t be objectively established that D. Lee is preventing a bunch of errors, considering that his infield committed errors at the league-average rate, and that he, himself, committed 9 of those.

In terms of range factor, Delgado was a better fielder than Lee in 2008. He committed 1 less error, and turned 8 more doubleplays.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Use your eyes D...

Lee has saved innumerable errors since he came here. In terms of range factor, Delgado is a better fielder than Lee? Ok, if that’s what the stats. say, but I know what I have seen, and Delgado is NOT a better fielder than Lee.

What the Lee detractors must understand is that Lee knows how to play the game, and has the skills to make many plays that other fielders wouldn’t even consider.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

We've all seen a lot more of Lee.

As Cubs fans, we are predisposed to like our guy better, and we’ve seen him play a whole heck of a lot more than we’ve seen other first basemen – it’s fan bias and observation bias – we’ve seen all of his good plays, and we remember all of his good plays while tending to forget the mistakes.

Fielding stats are obviously flawed in many respects. But I think that most would agree that Lee’s defense, while still above-average, is getting pretty close to average.

I agree that the errors Lee has saved are “innumberable” — because they literally cannot be tallied. They’re this ephemeral idea that allows us, as Cubs fans and Lee fans in particular, to continue to justifty Lee’s value to the team.

This whole “Lee is a great fielder b/c he prevents Theriot/Aramis errors” is a completely subjective notion that cannot be proven or disproven. And even if it could be established that Lee is the best in MLB at picking throws out of the dirt and preventing teammates errors, I disagree that it’s particularly valuable over the course of a season.

If we look at what actually happened on the field, Lee wasn’t any better than your run-of-the-mill first baseman.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure they can be tallied.

If you have play-by-play data at that level of detail it’s no problem to do that sort of accounting.

It’s just if you’re not willing to pay STATS or BIS for that sort of data, you have to parse it out of Gameday (hard, but it’s a project I’m working on) or wait for Retrosheet to release their 2008 event files, which should happen in December.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

There has to be subjectivity involved.

How can a scorekeeper objectively state that on a 6-3 groundout in which Lee makes a nice play on a somewhat off-line throw from Aramis, and swipe-tags the runner, that some other 1B would not have also made the play?

It seems like certain posters are looking for a stat which distinguishes between “nice play” putouts and “regular old” putouts. At some point, there’s some subjectivity there.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're best off looking at it over a number of years.

The scorekeeper doesn’t have to do anything, though. You can do it a few ways – looking at matched pairs, doing rates over time.

Everything is subjective at the level of one play; you look at a large number of plays, and you can start to make statements about a player’s talent level.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I certainly agree with that.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

LH 1Bman

Why not? That used to be the norm and is still quite common.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow. Just.... Wow.

You and every human being alive has observation bias- it’s a fact, well studied, highly researched and not disputable. Whether or not it factors into your evaluation of D. Lee- you are subject to that normal human tendency.

Left handed first basemen? Well if you are talking about in the field (the only place it matters) 9 out of the 23 1st basemen with the qualifying number of at bats throw left handed- 13 hit lefty.

First base is considered to be the easiest position to play, so the aging sluggers, all bat- no glove types, etc., end up there- handedness isn’t that big of a factor. If it were, being a lefty is an advantage, obviously.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Oct 21, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jimmy, one disagreement...

I’m a switch-thrower (also a switch-batter), and 1B is much easier to play left-handed for the following reasons:

1. The footwork is easier — you just have to plant your L foot on the bag and look for the ball. As a RH thrower, you have to turn completely around (back to 3B for a split second) to get your R foot on the bag.

2. The throw to 2B on a pickoff or 3-6-3 is much easier, because you don’t have to turn your body at all.

3. The glove hand is closer to the runner making a swipe tag easier on a pickoff.

4. Throws into the batter-runner are caught on the backhand, making it easier to protect oneself from a dislocated elbow or broken wrist.

I’m not in favor of trading Lee unless we get substantial improvement at 1B (unlikely), but I wouldn’t care if the new 1B threw LH or RH. (Actually, slight preference to LHT.)

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 21, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember, most ML teams

Have ML-caliber shortstops….

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wish our team did.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

He made more outs than Lee did.

That’s probably affected by the Cubs big strikeout totals, but Delgado did have a higher range factor, for whatever that’s worth.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Delgado had three more in-zone plays...

…based on the same amount of balls in zone (this is BIS’s RZR data). Lee had 15 more plays on out of zone balls.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Range factor is miserable.

I think the differential in picking throws out of the dirt isn’t very large – probably +/- 5 runs per years at the extreme cases. But Range Factor?

(Also, what we want to be looking at in this case is team throwing errors. Cubs had 38, compared to 45 for the league average.)

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is that just for the infield?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope.

I don’t have those figures handy. I can run those tonight. I can also see what I can parse out of the MLB Gameday database.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is anybody else here hoping Hendry can get a deal done with Milton Bradley?

I can’t tell if his defense even exists, but his bat is awfully good.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 10:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Bradley's a good defensive outfielder, at least I think he is.

Haven’t looked at his stats in awhile. The problem is his health – he cannot play in the field daily. He missed a lot of time DHing for the Rangers.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know he has had health issues, but if he plays solid defense

Why not at least try and throw him in RF.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not the worst idea ever...

…especially if you use him in a crooked platoon with DeRosa to keep him rested.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I will admit that him and Z would combine to drive a ton of people nuts

He can hit, so who cares.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't personally care

I’m more worried about the rest of the team.

Unlike some people on this board, the ONLY thing that matters to me is W’s. I don’t care about playing the game the right way, show boating, Z’s tantrums, etc… as long as the particular player can ball.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 20, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

damn straight

Winning is what matters.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Remember 2004?

The character of your players CAN derail a team with talent.

You know the saying about a bad apple…..

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Milton Bradley isn't Sammy Sosa

He didn’t have any problems in Texas this year. He is no worse than Carlos Zambrano.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

But there's a reason he doesn't stay with any team for long.

And if he is able to command a multi-year deal, I would pass on him. His track record shows that he tends out wear out his welcome within about a year or so.

If you could sign him to a 1 year deal, I’d consider it but I think that’s unlikely as the numbers he put up in 2008 make it likely at least one team will offer him a multiyear deal.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

His injury problems make it so that

He would only get a one year deal anyway, unless a team really liked him.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

After Jose Guillen got a multi-year deal

last year from the Royals, I’m not so sure.

We’ll soon find out!

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't he fight and spit on a fan in L.A.?

I’m not on the Bradley bandwagon thus far.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

The legend grows

Here is the incident you’re referring to. He didn’t spit on anyone.

Keep in mind this was a home game. Those were LA fans.

by Wreckard on Oct 20, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you

I’ll remove my comment.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Remember when everyone ripped me for ripping Dodger fans?

Well check this out

http://www.tmz.com/2008/10/17/dodger-fans-beer-batter-cops-during-game-5/

I think those that said I didn’t know what I was talking about, hadn’t been to Dodger stadium for a while. This kind of garbage happened there EVERY game I went to.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 20, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I second this... The LA Times wrote about it.

The LA Times wrote an article about how bad the fans are becoming at Dodger Stadium.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-fans15-2008oct15,3,6098103.story

Count yourself lucky if you have never experienced this, but don’t deny that it happens.

Forunately, they were able to find a Pollyanna-ish Robert Wuhl, who strangely never sees any fights from his $1000 seats by the dugout. Odd.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 20, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Waitaminute...

…you mean Cubs fans aren’t the worst in baseball?

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Alex Gonzalez, anyone?

n/t

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure why he has such a bad reputation

There’s the Jeff Kent thing which, let’s be honest, it’s hard to give Kent the benefit of the doubt on anything.

Then there was the incident where the ump incited Bradley and he flew off the handle. The Lefebre incident was just… weird. Hard to know what to make of that.

So he has a checkered history but I’m not sure it’s deserved. He doesn’t seem to have been portrayed fairly in the media and I’m not sure why that is.

by Wreckard on Oct 20, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

bingo

Without starting some huge discussion about media portrayal and such, I think Milton Bradley has been given an unfair rep.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's done this to himself

by throwing multiple fits on the baseball field.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

So I assume you also thing Big Z is a distraction

Because he tends to blow up in public quite a bit.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

That’s also why everyone thinks that Lou Pinella is a clubhouse cancer. Clearly the press is just treating Bradley like everyone else.

by Wreckard on Oct 20, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly my point.

If you behave a certain way publiclly multiple times, that is how the public will percieve your behavior to be ALL of the time!

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

He does seem to have some anger-management issues.

Now, here’s the question for you. Is that the same as being a clubhouse cancer?

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

It may develop that way

My guess is that he’s a “growth.” You need to extirpate before it metastasizes.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think group dynamics are a bit more complex than that.

The question about Milton Bradley – at least in this regard – is simply how well does he get along with teammates. I don’t know of any issues between Bradley and another player on his own team that wasn’t Jeff Kent.

And quite frankly, I don’t feel qualified to say that Jeff Kent isn’t racist.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point

n/t

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say at the very least,

Bradley’s behavior is a distraction for the team.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

“"Milton is a good person,” said teammate Jayson Werth. “Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, he gets emotional and can be misconstrued for something he’s not. He’s a passionate player. We all love him in the clubhouse.”

by Wreckard on Oct 20, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Bradley is a good option if one of Pie/Dome remains on roster but won’t get to start the season under Lou.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Luke Scott is a downgrade from Fukudome...

…once defense is taken into account. A Huff/Millar platoon is probably worse than what we’d get out of Lee next year. I don’t see Edmonds repeating what he did this year (of course I didn’t see him doing what he did this year either, although I figured he was going to hit SOME – I had him projected for .247/.341/.432, not accounting for platooning.)

And somehow, we pick up a shortstop that’s worse than Ryan Theriot rather than one better than him.

I can’t say I like this much.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 10:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed...

on top of that, it requires a trade that I don’t think would happen, as I think the Giants will want much more in return for Cain.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the post Al.

My simplistic thoughts.

1. Trading Lee now is risky… who knows if it would turn out. Could be good, could be bad.
2. Not sure the Johnson/Edmonds tandum will product again. I say keep Reed and get another backup CF.
3. My guess is Fukudome is back and improves next year.

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 20, 2008 10:44 AM CDT reply actions  

I think if the Giants would give us Cain and a relief pitcher for DLee

We should do it, Aramis’ error count be damned.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why not ask for Lincecum?

The Giants aren’t going to trade Matt Cain for Derrek Lee. They certainly aren’t going to throw in a valuable bullpen piece in the deal.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can we trade Soriano for the entire

Rays roster? The salaries are pretty comparable, no?

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Oct 20, 2008 10:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Good post

I was and still a Nolasco fan. The guy always wins, you look at his minor numbers before that awful trade, he always won. My Only concern is his arm issues he had two years ago. But if the Cubs are in the market to get him, great.
 Trading with the Orioles can be tricky. They will want more than what you have proposed for Huff and Scott. Those two had solid offensive years, and to get them the both I think Cedeno, Marshall, Veal, Hoff, and Weurtz would work. I see a 5 for 2 with this deal. Maybe to make it work the Orioles would insist we take Rocky Cherry and Freddie Bynum back.
 I lot to digest, I just want a team to show up to the post when October comes around. I also think Lou needs to have a better disposition in the clubhouse and in the dugout. Look at Joe Madden, Francona, and Charlie Manual, they all seem to deal with adversity better than Lou does.
 Go Cub 2009

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 20, 2008 10:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Then give 'em what they want.

I’d take Cherry back — he still has possibilities. Bynum could just be released.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good post Al

Some things to quibble about, but overall very good. Unfortunately Jim “Blank Check” Hendry doesn’t think like you do.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 11:00 AM CDT reply actions  

I think losing both Marshall and Marquis...

….makes us awfully vulnerable to injury. If we’re talking about winning it all, how could we depend on Gaudin as a starter?

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 11:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Rich Hill showed some life this week in South America

His return to being at least serviceable will go a long way to helping us trade Marshall.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #15 5-2 (1-2). Next up CU. Jeremy Maclin can still win the Heisman.

by nji232 on Oct 20, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Marshall has potential...

…both as a starter and long reliever. KEEP HIM! If we dump Marshall, who does mop-up work when Z or any other starter has a rough outing?

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I believe that Marshall has shown that he can be a solid, major league, starter.

by leothelip on Oct 20, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ricky Nolasco is going to be in high demand this winter

I would think the bidding for his services will get crazy. Larry Beinfast rarely gets taken to the cleaners and most often makes deals where the Marlins come out significantly on top.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 11:11 AM CDT reply actions  

What are you talking about?

Are you trying to tell me the Cabrera/Willis deal wasn’t good for the Marlins….oh wait

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 20, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybin and Andrew Miller are gonna be good

Maybin has all the talent in the world and Miller is a young lefty, so theres always potential in those….besides Dontrelle is a shell of his 03 and 05 self

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do now!

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Everybody keeps saying...

how Fuk is screwed because he’s in Lou’s doghouse, but didn’t Fuk play even after Lou’s critical comments about him? I haven’t seen any evidence that Fuk ever reached Lou’s doghouse. I’m still pissed at how much he played in the NLDS.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions  

Tend to agree...

…and Lou lives left handed bats. Fukudome will get a chance next spring to earn playing time. If he can’t do it, you may have a very expensive 4th outfielder.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or

if he has a decent spring, he may get traded. Some teams will probably take stock in Dome given his performance in Japan and think that they can bring out that ball player. We may not get too much for him, but at least it gives the Cubs another potential option with Dome, if he is that deep in Lou’s doghouse.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 20, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's exactly how I see it...

Unless he has a horrid spring I think he will be slated as our third/fourth outfielder. Lou went to him when it counted, despite Johnson’s great season, and seems to have some blind trust in Fuk. Hell, a horrid spring might not even convince Lou, as Fuk had one last year and still managed a hot start.

I supported the signing and don’t think he’s as bad as he showed down the stretch. But he “ISN’T WHAT WE THOUGHT HE WAS.”

My main problem: I just want to get rid of him because I don’t trust Lou’s judgment. It’s the main reason I also want Theriot gone; Lou likes certain players that may be valuable in certain positions but not nearly as valuable when Lou puts them in every situation possible. I just want to get rid of every player Lou has some strange attachment to. I don’t want to see a month of Fuk hitting 180 and Lou continuing to send him out; I don’t want to see Theriot regress next year and continue to be slated at SS and in the 2 hole simply because of this year’s performance and Lou’s liking to him. Lou is a good manager, but he seems to have blind spots.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget

we don’t see the players nearly as much as the manager, both on the field and off. They are in the doghouse for a reason. We just had a manager with no doghouse, I’m glad Lou brought his with him.

My gut feeling on Fuk is that he will have a bounce back year and be a very difficult out. He was that way for half a season and won’t be the last player to struggle in their rookie season only to bounce back the next. BUT, I just don’t see power numbers. He would be much better either in the 8 hole or at the top of the order.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 20, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not so much...

We had a manager who also had his favorites. Aging veterans without skills, anyone?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Piniella doesn't have a doghouse

Rather he expects performance. And if you can’t perform to expectation or potential level, then you are out. Regardless whether you are veteran or young player.

Lou runs a meritocracy. And that’s the way it should be. Dallas Green would be proud!!

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please explain...

K-Fuk playing all 3 games of the NLDS and then tell me how “if you can’t perform to expectation or potential level, then you are out” applies. Explain to me the excessive use of Howry in the last 3 months of the season while he failed to perform well. Please explain how there is no doghouse when both Eyre and Howry struggled, yet Howry was allowed to continue to butcher games while Eyre quit seeing action. And, considering Eyre’s sub 2.00 ERA for the Phillies, why he was the one of the two who wasn’t given any more IP to improve.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Completely off topic

but why do you keep referring to him as K-Fuk or Fuk?

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 20, 2008 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Am I the only

one who finds the use of his name like that offensive?

by sue369 on Oct 20, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

why?

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 20, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

No. I agree.

There’s no reason to abbreviate like that.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

To answer all of you...

I’m pronouncing it Fook as I write it. I guess I never realized any other implications. I say it as “Fooook” but just write it as Fuk, just like abbreviating Ramirez to Ram. Never gave it a second thought.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

No...

it’s not offensive.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it is.

Fukudome’s nickname is “Dome”. No one calls him “K-Fuk”. It has an obvious connotation that I find offensive.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2008 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever.

I explained it above.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 21, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

agree

Fukudome specifically said he preferred “Dome.” We should give him that respect.

All generalizations are false.

by Emelie on Oct 22, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not only that, but I agree about the connotation

And I don’t know why that wouldn’t be obvious.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 22, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please spare us...

Yes he does. Scott Eyre admitted it publicly. And even if he hadn’t, that you’d give away a good lefty for nothing speaks volumes. He was solid in second-half 2007, good before his injury this season, then came back and couldn’t get off the bench to save his life.

Oh, and then went to Philly, and been a life saver for them.

And let’s not get started on Lieber, who was never even given more than a few inning chance in Cincy before getting completely shuttered.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 20, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

And note that Lieber was only hit by the Reds. No other team hit him. I think he was tipping pitches to the Reds. That’s something an observant coaching staff should be able to pick up on.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

I think Lou needs to adjust a tad here. Hell the Cubs have lost 6 playoff games in a row under Lou. This is not all the players doing, trust me I am not going out and praising the players, however Lou needs to at least appear more relax and not as pissed. His non-verbals sometimes could bore a hole in a human.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 20, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Millar and Huff

I know he’s a nice guy and all but how will Millar help on the field? He’s been looking pretty washed up for awhile…is he so charming that they can carry him if he bombs early in the season?

Also, I don’t see how Huff is an improvement over Lee. In fact, between defense and Lee’s ability to draw some walks, Huff is the lesser player. Huff just had a very good season but Lee (who’s only one year older than Huff) has outperformed him more often than not over their careers. Plus, how would Huff react to being platooned in the season leading up to free agency?

Considering that Huff’s a FA after 2009 and Millar is pretty close to retirement, do you consider this idea to be a stopgap? Is there a younger player, one that might not be available this season, that you’d have the Cubs target down the road?

"Some people will look at a glass of water and say it's half-empty, while another guy will look at it and say it's half-full. A Cubs fan looks at the same glass and asks, "When's it gonna spill?" - Mike Royko

by LaddieRenfroe on Oct 20, 2008 11:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Sorry...

I see that this is being discussed above…but I still want to know who you’d target after the one year stopgap at first?

"Some people will look at a glass of water and say it's half-empty, while another guy will look at it and say it's half-full. A Cubs fan looks at the same glass and asks, "When's it gonna spill?" - Mike Royko

by LaddieRenfroe on Oct 20, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

couldn't

the replacement for one year of Huff/Millar be ARAM at 1B with Vitters at 3B or is that too soon for Vitters?

Well done post Al,but I hope you are wrong about a couple things. For one……..we can’t do another year of Theriot’s D at SS……….I have been a Theriot guy all along but I will admit when I’m wrong. Also, I am not sure about Dempster ………my gut is to shake his hand and thank him for a fantastic year and let someone else overpay him…..especially if the Lee for Cain deal were to happen. As foe SS………I believe Furcal would be great………I know he’s expensive but it’s not our money! I think DeRo would be attractive on the trade market as much as I like him you have to give value to get value in return. Theriot/Fontenot could play 2B then. Still……..no matter what happens we have 2 atrocious contracts that I think we are stuck with in LF and RF

by plenz on Oct 20, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too soon for Vitters.

He’s still in A-ball so it will be a couple of years at least until he’s ready. Remember, he was drafted out of high school and most hitters at that age go through the minor leages one level at a time. Players drafted out of College sometimes move through the minor leages more rapidly.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

WHY GIVE UP ON PIE???

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Oct 20, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions  

My Fukudome prediction...

I will bet that Fukudome goes to the Padres. I haven’t thought out who might be coming back, but the possibilities of him going to San Diego make sense. I am sure someone will say “for Khalil Greene” or “for Jake Peavy”, but I doubt either of those are realistic.

Instead, how about for Jody Gerut and Justin Hampson. Bring a pair of Illinois guys home.

1. Fresh start in a new city.
2. Larger Asian population in Southern California.
3. Petco’s vast gaps lend itself to Fukudome’s alleged strengths, assuming he can ever get his swing back.
4. His speed would be beneficial in RF there.
5. Padres were already in the bidding for him.

Just my thoughts. Won’t happen.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 20, 2008 11:46 AM CDT reply actions  

No Jody Gerut

We’ve had enough steroids in this town already.

by lswaidz on Oct 20, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please provide a link

on Gerut’s steroids use. I think you are thinking of Matt Lawton who the Cubs traded Gerut to get. I’ve heard nothing connecting Gerut to PEDs.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could swear it was him, but I could be wrong…

by lswaidz on Oct 20, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

You might be right - my interest in steroids tends to be a lot less than other baseball fans.

I googled and found nothing, so I asked.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't think the Padres are interested any longer

as they are looking to cut payroll due to the owner’s divorce.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Moores is selling half

He will sell 49% of the team to help allow them to keep payroll at a reasonable level. Still might be the case they can’t afford Fukudome, though.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 20, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Edmonds vs. Pie

Wow, tough call here. Al, quoted Rickey’s comments about trading a player a year too soon rather than a year too late. Does this apply to Edmonds?

I would love to see Pie get the chance to play in a platoon with Johnson. For that to happen, Hendry has to lay down the law to Pineilla and tell him he wants to get him out there on a regular basis.

Still, I hesitate to just let Edmonds go until he shows he can’t play anymore. If Fukudome goes, could Edmonds play right part time? He has the skills, the intelligence, it seems.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Oct 20, 2008 11:50 AM CDT reply actions  

I think yes...

We got what we could out of Edmonds. Let him go before we get stuck with a worthless veteran. I’d much rather have Pie platooning in CF rather than Edmonds, although I wouldn’t be opposed to including Pie in some deal.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I agree.

I’m grateful what Jimbo Ballgame Hollywood Jedmonds brought to the team in ’08. But something tells me the magic is going to wear off quickly in ’09.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm okay with bringing him back, but at a salary commensurate

with a platoon player. If he is looking for $8M per annum, I’ll take a pass.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why not let Pie and Dome fight it out for CF playing time?

One of the two of them should be able to rise to the occasion.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can you afford two roster spots for that?

Are you thinking Sori/LH CF + RJ/some RF (Ibañez/Dunn/Griffey/?)? That would be 5 OFs, not counting DeRo. While I would rather see DeRo play 2B every day, that would render LBR useless except as a PH. One of those 5 OFs would have to be your other PH since you wouldn’t have room for Ward/Hoff/Millar/etc.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't necessarily need Reed Johnson

if I put Dome/Pie out there because Dome can hit lefties (if he can hit at all). I also don’t mind having 5 OFs because Pie brings speed to the bench if he’s on the bench.

So, this isn’t necessarily The Scenario, but let’s imagine how this could work:

Keep the IF the same for simplicity’s sake, minus Ward/Hoff for now. Soriano’s a fixture in LF. Dome and Pie split time in CF. Bobby Abreu’s the RF.

On the bench I have Cedeno, Blanco, Fontenot from the IF. The first two are injury insurance. Fontenot allows DeRosa to rest the corner IFs and Abreu. Then one of Dome/Pie is on the bench, leaving me my final bench man (assuming 12 pitchers). I think, with that bench I’m going to want that RH pinch-hitter, so Reed Johnson (or Gabe Kapler or their like) works out well. We’re “missing” Ward/Hoff, but we’ve got Fontenot plus one of Dome/Pie, so do we need Ward/Hoff?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I might say "yes" to Ward/Hoff,

because the guy who is hitting better between Dome and Pie would play. That leaves LBR plus a weak hitter (the loser of the CF competition) as your LHB PHs. Unless someone in the Central signs Fuentes, we might have all RHP closers in the Central — which would mean a great emphasis on LHB PHs.

BTW, I think Pie will be traded this off-season for two reasons:
1. He is too deep in Lou’s doghouse. (The fact that Lou gave him only four game last year is your first clue. The fact that he didn’t play him the day after he had an RBI single and 2 BBs in Sept. is your second clue.)

2. Dome is making $12M and isn’t going anywhere — at least until he creates some trade value. I think he begins the year as an every day player in CF or RF, depending on who else they sign. It doesn’t make sense to keep another LHB CF as his “backup”.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

ESPN 1000 reporting that Jim Hendry has signed a 4 year extension...

…great way to start the week!

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1231404,hendry-extension-102008.article

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Oct 20, 2008 12:06 PM CDT reply actions  

From the mothership

Tribune’s story

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I find it amazing

and likely a testament to the Cubs poor play for so many years that Hendry is already the third longest tenured GM in Cubs history.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 20, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Al

My $0.03…

1. Dome will be back. Forget the pressure from the MLBPA; the embarrassment of going back to Japan after “failing” would be much worse than the embarrassment of sitting on the bench for the Cubs considering Japanese cultural issues. BTW, I think Dome will make adjustments and be much better next year (.300 BA), but he will never be the LH power threat that the Cubs hoped he would be.

2. I agree that Pie won’t be back since Lou is the proprietor of the Canine Hotel California in which Pie has resided the last two years. Since he is out of options, he will be dumped somewhere. The Marlins could be interested; perhaps in a Jeremy Hermida package?

3. I wouldn’t count on trading with the Orioles. If they extend TNO and get Tex, they will be in “win” mode. The only thing that could entice them would be a top-flight SP like Lilly, whom I don’t think the Cubs should trade.

4. I think that Hoff replaces Ward. Just as Lou buries guys he hates, even if it hurts the team (see Eyre, Scott), he keeps and promotes guys he loves, even if it hurts the team (see Theriot, Ryan).

5. I can see the Cubs trying to trade DLee, but they won’t have a lot of leverage because of his NTC. The Angels might offer a better package (if Tex leaves) than the Giants, but DLee might not want SoCal. That might mean it is better to keep him than to trade him for garbage. IMO, DLee is not “washed up”, but I think he will have to make some adjustments in his set-up to reduce the moving parts (i.e., close his stance, smaller leg kick, etc.). I think his hands are still plenty strong and quick, and that the problem is in his lower body and is correctable. Because of his wingspan, he has great leverage and won’t lose power as quickly as a guy like Sori who is entirely dependent on quickness to generate bat speed. If he makes some adjustments, I can see him having a big (not necessarily 2005) year next year, and we all know how important his glove is to Ramy and Riot.

6. I bet that the Cubs will sign/trade for one (or more) of Lou’s pets: Griffey, Ibañez, Lugo, Bloomquist, Morse, etc. I’m not saying I like this, necessarily, just that it seems to be the way Lou operates.

7. I don’t think that Edmonds will be back, because I think that they want Dome to be the LHB (or full-time) CF — unless they get Griffey, in which case he plays RF.

8. I agree that Marquis might be headed to the Mets (I seriously doubt the Yankees would be interested), but I don’t like it. Marshall has never shown he can stay healthy for 200 IP, Gaudin hasn’t shown he can walk late at night, and Harden has shown that he is not able to make 30 starts. IMO, Marshall represents depth as a SP better than Gaudin, and I don’t want to count on Veal as the “starter in waiting”. However, $10M for the #5 guy might be too much of a luxury.

Thanks for taking the time to make such a thoughtful post.

DMH

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 12:09 PM CDT reply actions  

Edmonds retires

is my prediction.Or, is not picked up. That’s a lot of money for an aging CF. In an effort to put Kuk someplace, he goes to CF with Johnson.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 20, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think trading for Brian Giles might make the most sense.

The Padres are trying to cut pay due to the owner’s divorce. Hendry and Towers have proven to be trading parters in the past so I think it’s possible this would happen. Giles has 10 & 5 rights so he will have to approve. I would think the Padres would be looking for prospects in return or cheap major leagers.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Giles wouldn't approve a trade to Boston

for a shot in the playoffs, what guarantee is it that he’d come to Chicago?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 20, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why would you say that?

Boston is in the AL and the Cubs are in the NL.

Giles has played in the NL his entire career. It stands to reason he would be most comfortable in an NL city. I think it’s possible, just not sure how high (or low) the possibility would be.

I just think Giles would be an interesting match with the Cubs and since the Cubs and Padres have worked well on trades in the past, it seems like this is a possibility.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just question his motivation at this point

He had the opportunity to go play for Boston for 2 months, be part of World Series push, and turned it down to stay in San Diego.

He has a Club Option for 2009, with a $3 million buyout (I don’t know if San Diego will pick it up), so if the Cubs want him, they could go get him if they wanted.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 20, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think a league preference...

was ever cited by Giles as a factor in his decision. It was mainly his level of content in San Diego and his desire not to move his family again, IIRC. I think it’s conceivable he would approve a trade to LA or SF because he said he enjoys CA and has no desire to leave.

Might be an interesting match, but do we really want a guy who had NO desire to get on a playoff team and the favorite for the WS?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's another angle:

There is a difference between being traded in the middle of the season to being traded in the offseason.

I believe you are correct that Giles would prefer to stay in California but I think he might also might be more flexible when the Padres make it clear they are rebuilding and essentially he is no longer wanted. Last year at the deadline things were still up in the air about the future direction of the francise. (The owner is going through a divorce).

I think the Padres will pick up his option but will want to use him as a trading chip to acquire prospects. With that in mind, he may be more agreeable to being traded in the offseason rather than have to listen to all the trade rumors until July 31st.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

SD is Giles' home town.

BTW, I have heard that the Dads have/will pick up his option.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good points one and all.

And let me just say that if the Cubs pick up Ken Griffey Jr., I may have to kick a puppy. Just warning you all.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Since when do YOU need an excuse....?

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll hold

it in place for you. Replacing Edmonds with Griffey is like replacing a 1986 Toyota with a 1982 Buick. Worse milage, more likely to break down, and a lot less nimble.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Griffey?

Seriously?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't say I was in favor of such a move,

only that Lou has his pets…

…. and Griffey is one of them.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand the sentiment

of trying to get Nolasco back. But I’d take Cain over him any day, and that is only partially due to their respective injury histories.

by Cubinator on Oct 20, 2008 12:30 PM CDT reply actions  

I respectfully disagree

Nolasco is far more advanced than Cain. Cain has no command, at least at this time in is short career. I am just a Nolasco fan, bring him home.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 20, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Drinking too much Kool-Aid, Al

The Lee thing is just laughable. He agrees to go play for a team like the Giants because he is from the West Coast and the Giants give you Cain ? Ok maybe if the “prospects” are your top 3 but I STILL doubt it. Why would Lee want to play for what is likely to be a BAD team and why would the Giants give up Cain for so little. Lastly Millar would be a disaster unless your sole goal is lightening up the club house with some "Cowboy Up " stuff.

Ok even more laughable is the idea the Mets or Yankees would pay NINE MILLION for Marquis with our without
prospects. The Yankees would not go with him with a 40 foot pole and the Mets might take him with the Cubs paying 9 million.

On a related note we are stuck with Lou and they may well mean Pie is done which is one reason which should
in general be very afraid. Notice how Madden & Torre were willing to have faith in players with VERY limited MLB experience ( McDonald & Price) in the POST SEASON. Yes they were top prospects but I don’t see Lou EVER trusting a player with so little experience. The Bosox let Elsbury work out the kinks when he was NOT hitting at all but Lou has about a 20 at bat or 5 inning’s of patience for players who don’t perform exactly as he thinks they should. Well I hope Scott Eyre gets to show off his ring. If Lou does not show more faith and support for the ENTIRE team, he will mess up whatever roster he gets.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 12:52 PM CDT reply actions  

Some of the more sensible words written today thus far

But what makes you think the NY teams wouldn’t want Marquis, especially the Yanks?

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

FYI I LIKE Marquis

But no one pays a 5th starter 9 million intentionally.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Yankees or Mets might.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Yankees would give Joe the Plumber a contract

I guarantee they’d pay Marquis. They need pitching BIG TIME!

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

He surely wouldn't resist a chance to go back and play for his hometown team. I'm

sure he would be happy to return back East.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

He might be happy

The Yankees and Mets would not. I know you think the Yankees just want to throw money and they do but they
want to throw it at CC and Lowe. Why in the world does anyone think the Yankees or Mets would seriously spend 9 million or 8 million or whatever on Marquis. The fact is Marquis is useful but overpaid big time so the only way to get rid of him is to pay the VAST majority of his contract AT least 7 million which at that point becomes silly so you might as well keep him.
Al I know you like to heat things up but even to the Yankees and Mets 9 million is a LOT of money and they are not spending it on Marquis in fact the Yankees would not take him for FREE as he would implode in the AL East.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's something to consider,

teams sometimes are willing to overpay for 1 year of a player rather than sign a player to a multi-year deal. This is because it gives them more flexibility from year to year.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

You might overpay a little but not that much

It is not like you are offering a front end or even middle rotation guy. Marquis is a very good 5th starter but
teams would rather use a kid or retread costing them a fraction of that price. You can surely shop him but you will end up eating nearly all of the contract and the ONLY reason to do that is you have some ass kicking 5th starter because otherwise you are paying another team 7 million or so to TAKE him.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Problem with that thinking is

that both teams have an abundance of guys that can fill in at the back end. Both teams starting needs are front of the rotation. Mets actually need to prioritize that awful pen first, before spending on starting pitching, and rumors are suggesting that Minaya is limited.

If I were to throw out a possible team to take Marquis and part of his salary on (I doubt anyone eats the whole thing), it’d be Detroit, as they are limited in their budget flexibility unless they deal Ordonez, meaning that they might not be able to shop on the open market (I mean, a guy like Garland could get 10 mil plus per year on a long term … making Marquis a bit more attractive). I could probably see a couple more teams, but a lot of teams are more willing to turn to their kids as 5th starters.

by toonsterwu on Oct 24, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

When the Phillies clinched a World Series spot...

…one of the first thoughts to cross my mind was, “I guess Scott Eyre gets the last laugh, after all.”

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I said the same exact thing to my wife

n/t

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean, TWHS2HW?

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean, he said it to chilango1?

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 20, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then the problem is Piniella?

Perhaps hes too “old school” and set in his ways, much in the same way Dusty Baker didnt believe in On Base Percentage.

Piniella reminds me in some ways of Bill Parcells, theyre both good managers/coaches, and both are living off of titles they won nearly 20 years ago.

Lous been successful, as the only manager in the last 100 years to get this club to the playoffs twice in a row, but he doesn’t seem to be terribly flexible and a bit reticent to make the small, but critical changes, ie. Moving Soriano down, not to the 2 spot, which was farcical,but no higher than 4th.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's hard to give a total agreement...

given Lou’s success with the Cubs, but I really don’t see Lou as being a great manager these days. If he gets extended past 2010, I’d be really upset. Senility is creeping up quickly…

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

If a manager changed constantly...

…wouldn’t you wonder what their philosophy is, if they are so fleeting.

Bottom line; all managers have favorite players, are stubborn about certain things and this is all because they believe in their ability to help their club win. With any manager, you take the good with the bad. If you watched any manager the entire year, you would find something to be critical of, because it is easy to second guess.

All in all, Lou brings a lot more good to the table than bad and you just hope you have players who will respond, regardless of who the manager is. I am convinced, the problem with the Cubs (in the last two playoffs) is a player problem, not a manager problem.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

In the same way that Lou was a good corrective to Hendry

it’s time now for Hendry to push back and be the corrective Lou needs. Jim Hendry, stand up to Lou!

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is always the GM's...

…responsibility to determine the final roster, always. Sure, they need to work with the manager, but its on him to decide what the absolute best mix is. Of course, when you hire a manager, you have to know what you are getting, because your player selection could partially be determined by how a guy manages.

With the above said, I have always said, the most important person in an organization is the GM. He hires the manager, determines the roster, makes trades, signs FA’s, oversees the farm and runs the entire baseball organization. It is much easier to win (over time) with a good GM and average manager, than it is to win with a good manager and an average GM, because the GM’s moves have a much broader effect that show up (either positively or negatively) over time.

I still hold to my opinion that Piniella is good for Hendry, because he is a better evaluator of talent and what it takes to win. Will Piniella make mistakes? Absolutely, even the best ones will, but I trust Lou on evaluating players capabilities a lot more than Hendry and always will.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're right

about how Lou has been good for Jim in the past but it’s time for that relationship to become more reciprocal. Lou needs to realize that he can receive good correctives from Jim now, specifically as the Cubs consider Edmonds v. Pie in 2009.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed with both of you.

One thing Hendry can do is to curb Lou’s propensity for putting people in the doghouse where they never get out. The Cubs could have used Scott Eyre in the division series.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps more importantly

They would have been MUCH better off WITHOUT Howry in the 2nd half and ESPECIALLY the last month of the season. Hendry MUST keep Lou in check and not dump or demote Eyre, Lieber , Pie etc because Lou will not play them and though I think Lou finally figured it out AFTER two seasons, go get a REAL lead off hitter and make sure Soriano NEVER bats 1st again. I remain cynical that Lou can change his old ways and be the kind of manager
that really supports and uses an entire roster.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Lou does want a real leadoff hitter

If you recall, in spring training he put soriano at second a few times when he thought they might be getting roberts (soriano needs to be down further than that, but whatever). Get him a bon afide leadoff hitter and Lou will hit him there.

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you MAY be onto something...

but I’m going to RESERVE my judgment of Lou until AFTER spring training STARTS. Then we can SEE if Lou has DECIDED to ADJUST his THINKING to THE performance ON the FIELD. Man THIS alternating BACK and FORTH between CAPS and LOWERCASE is REALLY annoying.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lou did trust

Jeff Spellcheck for the last few months of the season. He also threw Randy Wells out in some pretty key situations in September.

It just doesn’t seem like Lou trusts young position players at all.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 20, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Be careful. You're starting to make Lou sound like Dusty.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know

scary isn’t it.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 20, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

What do you call Soto, Theriot, Fontenot

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know, what?

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Oct 20, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Oh" guys?

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Old guys. See I told you he doesn't like young position players.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

OR he doesn't like young position players...

…UNLESS their name ends with “oh.”

Think about it.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jeff Spellcheck....thats great.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree to an extent

Lou did run the Shark out there with limited experience. But I get your point. And I have made the point also previously, Lou needs to adjust period.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 20, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

“Notice how Madden & Torre were willing to have faith in players with VERY limited MLB experience ( McDonald & Price) in the POST SEASON”

I must’ve missed the part where Geovany Soto, pretty much a september call up last year, played in the 07 LDS. Ryan Theriot, love him or hate him, did the same thing as well.

Put aside your biases and take an honest look at the team before spewing more of this.

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

And to clarify

I don’t mean to say theriot was a september call up, just that he was a young guy last year.

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't the Marlins already have two CF'ers?

Sorry if this has been mentioned above, but they have Cody Ross and Cameron Maybin already.

So I don’t think the Marlins are interested in picking up another CF.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Oct 20, 2008 12:54 PM CDT reply actions  

I think Ross will be in one of the corners next year...

So they might be more apt to trading Hermida, to capitalize on his potential and free them from his injury risk…..so Im sure he can fleece Hendry again.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but, Al's post mentions trading them Pie and Cain

for Nolasco. They already have their CF of the future in Maybin, so why would they want Pie? Just one of the things I found flawed in Al’s post.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Oct 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do they need a right fielder?

Pie’s got a hell of an arm.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Josh Willingham, Cody Ross, or Jeremy Hermida

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Oct 20, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess if that were to happen it would be Ross-Maybin-Pie?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unrealistic Trade Scenarios and Invalid Assumptions

Al, first off, I know you put a lot of work into this but I feel I have to comment as a knowledgeable baseball guy and Cubs fan. You make a lot of assumptions – such as Kosuke going back to Japan (doubtful, he’d be going back in shame and losing face is big over there), and Dempster taking a discount (slight, maybe, but he still wants $14-15 mil per year my friend and no way I give him that unless it’s for 2 years with an option and I’m sure he wants 4+ years).

OK, now on to your deals. No way you can get Matt Cain for D-Lee, much less get a throw-in as well. The Giants think they can get a lot for Cain so he’s out. And anyway, Cain and Pie for Nolasco, are you serious? I’d keep Cain, but again, you won’t get him for an overpaid, half asleep first baseman like DP-Lee.

Millar is a good character guy, but will probably sign where he is assured of roughly 350-400 ab’s, so I don’t see him signing here, but you never know. Huff had a good year, but as a first baseman, is a terrific DH. And you’re going to pay him $8 million to platoon? Um, don’t think so. Plus, he’s never been in post-season.
Further…$8 million for Edmonds? Rediculous. And Luke Scott, another DH, at least has gone 0-for-2 in the post-season, so he ought to fit right in with Soriano and Ramirez.

What you don’t really address is getting a leader for the clubhouse and a player who has a proven track record in the post-season. I guess you were thinking Millar, but there’s a reason why Boston dumped him. That’s what this team truly needs. Maybe sign a Derrek Lowe instead of Dempster since he is good under pressure, unlike Demp, who looked like a deer in the headlights (as did most of our Cubbies).

That’s my take. You can read me at BleacherReport.com.

by rememberthecoop on Oct 20, 2008 1:08 PM CDT reply actions  

I've always been on the side of Lee

but thinking about the Cubs this offseason, it may be time to see what they can get for him.

If the Cubs could bring back a Matt Cain-type player, and find a suitable replacement to man first for a year or two, it would appear to be a logical move.

Aside from the obvious defensive/offensive implications, it also takes away the Cubs’ locker room ‘go-to’ guy. So, the question then becomes who takes the mantle of leadership of the team. As long as guys like Dempster and Wood return, I think the Cubs would be fine in this respect.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 20, 2008 1:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Excellent Posts but some things are missing.

1. We still do not have a true leadoff hitter
2. If we could trade Derrek Lee + prospect for Cain and LH specialist. I think the Cubs would be fools not to do it as soon as the WS is over. I just think that if the Brewers offered Fielder and Hardy and they turned it down, makes you wonder if they take Derrek Lee.
3. No way do the Marlins take Felix Pie off our hands. They have a better version of him in Cameron Maybin, so why would they want another center fielder?
4. Who is going to platton with Luke Scott? You said he hit RH pitching at .269? I know he has some pop, but would he really be an upgrade over Kosuke ( assuming his numbers increase 10-15%. So who is going to hit against LH pitching? Kevin Millar? There is no way he can play our RF. That’s a disaster waiting to happen.

I like if we can move Pie with Lee to Giants for Cain and LH specialist, that would be great. I also think if Nolasco is awarded 8 million, then they would be happy to take on Cain ( to replace the production at a bargain price) and maybe we can get Jeremy Hermida in the deal and then we move him to RF or maybe 1B. . If we can’t get him, then we must sign Milton Bradley and platoon Kosuke and Reed in center. If we get Hermida or Milton Bradley to play 1B, then we have to get Ichiro to play RF and thus gives us a leadoff hitter plus having another Japanese player should help in Kosuke development. I am not sure what we would have to give up to get him, but at least we wouldn’t have to deal with the O’s. ( maybe we can trade those prospects)

Regardless this is going to be a tough off Season for us, lots of different ways to go and lots of different blueprints to get there. Who knows whose right and wrong? Anyways, great work AL!

by MrShowtime on Oct 20, 2008 1:13 PM CDT reply actions  

I also really like Jeremy Hermida and Bradley...

Our fans could be a litte too much for Milton though… Just imagine if Jacque Jones was certifiably insane…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just imagine if Jacque Jones hit

.321/ .436/ .563

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Oct 20, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just guessin....

but, he’d still be a Cub.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt we could get Ichiro...

But how about DeRo playing RF and getting Roberts/Huff in a trade after sending Lee off for prospects?

by jbertram on Oct 20, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another 1B possibility

If the Cubs wanted to spend a little money, and probably give up fewer prospects, they could look at Todd Helton.

Yes, he’s locked up for the next 3 years – that’s biggest problem – but he’s available at a relatively cheap price trade-wise, and he might make fans more comfortable than Aubrey Huff.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 20, 2008 1:16 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd love Todd Helton in Wrigley...

He would be an upgrade in the # 3 hole and give this team a needed left-handed run producer. He isn’t the player he once was but he still is good. And better than Derrek Lee.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

My concern with Helton

aside from the contract is his health. He’s coming off of back surgery, which may lower the price for him, but could take away some power, too.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 20, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hm, coming off back surgery.

Kinda like…Rafael Furcal.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes indeed.

Helton should be ready to go for spring training, and Furcal will be able to cleanly field grounders by then (I think).

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 20, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

How is Helton an upgrade...

he hit 7 homers in half a season this year (17 in a full season last year), has health issues, isn’t as good defensively, and has a disgusting contract.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, "Helton" does kinda sound like "Harden."

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trade the farm for him. ;)

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

The question remains...

is he a POWER hitter, or does is he a 2-pitch hitter?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

You might want to rephrase that a bit, Kansas.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever...

I said was right and meant I what I said. :)

Yeah, I’m a little off this morning. So much going on in this thread.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Try a bloody mary. It works wonders.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Derrek Lee desperately needs to be moved

Will it happen? I doubt it. But I absolutely agree that we need to put sentiment aside and let objective analysis of Lee and what this team’s needs are rule the day.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 1:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Where did all this distaste for D. Lee come from?

I realize he’s not great but he ain’t terrible either.

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Derrek Lee - Welcome to the BCB Whipping Boy Club. Gold Membership Status.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Howry can just hand him his card on the way out the door.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can we distinguish the clubs?

Howry- deserved. Lee- not deserved. Theriot-somewhat deserved.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

D Lee

the distaste comes from the fact that he is in no way shape or form the player he was in 2005……the Cubs and us expected to see that guy……….not the aging shadow of his former self that we’ve seen for 2 seasons in a row. NO WAY you can have him batting 3rd (unless you plan on being bad) anymore. Plus…I think the calls to trade him come from the fact that we HAVE to make changes and he along with Dero may be our most marketable guys that are realistic trade options and would garner interest from other clubs. Remember…………..we have 2 absolutely horrible and untradable contracts that we are stuck with in the corner OF spots

by plenz on Oct 20, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree as I believe it's not distaste,

blue mike excepted, as much as resignation that changes are needed.

Lee’s contract is not prohibitive and he has not been a solid #3 hitter for the Cubs. The free agent market for 1B is thin and someone in need may value Lee.

I advocate trading Lee, not to be rid of him, but if the Cubs gain something else. I would much rather off load Soriano and/or Fukudome, but believe that cannot happen.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I can't speak for everyone...

…and certainly not MDBNIU, but I believe many of us simply see DLee as a potentially valuable trading chip at this stage in his career. He’s certainly not terrible, but the stars seem to be aligning to say that now is a good time to move him while the Cubs could get something useful in return.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have no dislike for Derrek Lee, but it is time to move him regardless

A. Cubs have screaming need for a left handed hitting run producer and you can find such commodity at 1st base.

B. To me D-Lee is in decline phase. Good ballplayer? Yep. Guy I want to hang on to? Nope.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Todd Helton isn't in decline phase?

Ha!

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Oct 20, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

It would make no sense for the Rockies to trade Todd Helton

as his value is at it’s all time lowest. He’s coming off of back surgery so it would make sense for them to keep him since they would have to eat most of the money anyway. If they’re going to be paying him, they might as well see if they can get production out of him.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trading chip is one thing, but downright distaste is another. I have no use for

fans who cheer for an athlete one minute and bitch the next once an athlete’s performance doesn’t measure up to their standards. Lee didn’t force the Cubs to sign him to his contract. He didn’t hold a gun to their heads and say “Trade me or else!”. He was paid on what he had accomplished and his projected future performance. Any sports contract is a gamble. There’s always a chance a guy’s performance can taper off. We’re dealing with human beings here, not machines. He’s not trying to suck.

It’s fine to say, “Let’s see what we can get in a trade for this guy.” if it will help the team. To get pissed off at a player because his performance slips before his contract expires is naive and unrealistic. Grow up and join the real world.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

That needs to be the logic regarding D-Lee...

He wasn’t a problem on this team this year and should NOT, as BlueMike puts it, ‘moved at all costs.’

But, if the deal is right, I’m all for moving Lee if we have a solid replacement eyed and the deal nets us some valuable pieces.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

When did I say moved at all costs Professor??

Derrek Lee needs to be moved and has value. Will he be moved? I strongly doubt it. So in the end your wish shall be granted. Unlike other smart baseball organizations we’ll let denial and sentimentality rule over objectivitiy and what is the smart move for the baseball club.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Different thread I believe...

but you did say in your previous post he needs to be moved “regardless” of whether the deal is right.

Hey, I agree that now would be a good time to trade Lee, as his value will never be higher. But he wasn’t one of our glaring weaknesses, so he shouldn’t be moved simply for the sake of moving him. Nobody said anything about sentimentality; if his market value is good enough to land us some good pieces, then I say go for it. The hate has been extreme for one of the few people who showed up in the NLDS

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that the "right" deal is anyone who will take the salary.

I just don’t see Derrek Lee performing at anything higher than replacement player value over the next 2 seasons, and the $26M that he’s owed could be better used elsewhere.

Obviously, I’d still hope to maximize the Cubs’ return on the deal. But just getting out from under the contract would be enough to get me to pull the trigger.

None of this is intended to imply “distaste” for D-Lee, or to imply that his contract is somehow worse than Soriano’s or Fukudome’s. It is not. Those contracts are just hilariously bad.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think "replacement player" means what you think it does

Even with his diminished numbers in ’08, Lee was worth 16.5 Runs Above Replacement player on offense (good for 15th among active first basemen).

Take defense into account, and Lee was worth 7.4 Wins Above Replacement Player.

Either you think he’s going to drop off a huge cliff in the next couple of years or your overvaluing what replacement player means (it basically means Richie Sexson).

by Wreckard on Oct 20, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's using BP's replacement level, I thinks...

…which is too low. Lee probably played as 2 WAR last season, which is essentially average.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be clear

I am referring to replacement first basemen, not the entire universe of “replacement players” of all positions for VORP purposes. I’m not interested in acquiring a 1B who can outhit the average shortstop.

If Derrek Lee was the 15th most productive 1B last year, he was the median guy. I think that makes him, more or less, average.

There’s no question that he was the 5th best 1B in the NL Central last year.

And going by his trendline, I anticipate that he’ll be below average in 2009.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

VORP is adjusted by position.

I have my issues with VORP, but that’s not one of them. And average != replacement level. Not by a long shot.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cool

In that case, I’ll be even more clear — I don’t expect D. Lee to be in the top half of MLB first basemen next year in terms of production, and I think that the team should seek out a trading partner, and acquire a player who will be more productive at the position.

Everyone knows who I’d have them sign, and I know that it may not be possible.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

And as I've said before...

…the upgrade from Lee to Teixiera is similar in value to the move from Theriot to Christian Guzman. Average baseball players have real value. We have bigger holes to fill.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goodness!

It sounds like you are talking about Andrew Jones’ contract, not D-Lee.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

So...

we fix our holes by opening another hole? I guess I’d make the deal if it came with a replacement SS or RF, but certainly not to dump salaray.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd certainly want the $26M used to acquire another 1B.

Taking $13M/year off the books allows the team to fix some holes. I’m not advocating that they sit on their hands and start Hoffpauir next year.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe you wording was "Desperately needs to be moved". I don't

know how desperate the Cubs are to move him, but he is a tradeable comodity and the Cubs needs a good LH power bat to balance out the lineup.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

His value as a "trade chip" is meaningless.

(The same is true for DeRo, Lilly, etc.)

The Cubs are trying to win the WS in 2009. Thus, they must evaluate all personnel decisions in that light. That means the decision is:

1. We can’t reasonably get someone better within our budget (or no one better exists), so we keep him. (Ex: Aramis Ramírez)

2. We need him, but we can get someone almost as good pretty easily (or we already have someone else in-house) and we desperately need his trade value to fill a bigger hole. (Ex: Spellcheck, Mark DeRosa)

3. We must upgrade from him if we are going to get better. (Ex: Bob Howry, Kosuke Fukudome)

4. We desperately need to fill a hole, but don’t have enough money in the budget unless we trade someone in the $X range even if we like him. Of our three players in the $X range, Player B is the easiest to replace in-house, so we trade him. (Ex: Ted Lilly)

The old Branch Rickey statement “it is better to trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late” was made in an era when teams had to develop their own players or trade for them. With FA, it doesn’t apply quite as much as it used to. (The new motto should be: “don’t sign a guy for more years than they will be useful for”.)

Assuming Tex signs with the Yanks or O’s, I don’t honestly think that the Cubs can readily replace DLee with someone who is markedly better (case #1). Since budget doesn’t seem to be a huge issue, case #4 doesn’t really apply. Case #2 doesn’t apply if his NTC means that Hendry doesn’t have the leverage to bring back a stud. And, despite the DPs, I don’t think case #3 applies, though I wouldn’t mind seeing him hit lower in the order. As Colin pointed out in another post, it would be much more cost effective to worry about upgrading CF, RF, and SS more than 1B.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

This depends on how worried you are about Lee's bat.

I’m minimally worried. But, if you think Lee’s an .800 OPS hitter, does his defense gain him enough value to make him irreplaceable compared to Dunn and Ibanez?

Or consider this scenario – which IF is better? (3B-SS-2B-1B)
DeRosa-Real SS – Theriot/Fontenot- Ramirez
Ramirez-Theriot-DeRosa-Lee

That depends on the SS to some degree, but also on the trade return for Lee. If we trade Lee to the Angels for one of their real SSs, we could do very well in a Lee-less world.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Assume that Lee will have the same (or slightly better) year next year.

Assume that DeRo will regress slightly (.820 OPS).

If those two assumptions are true (and I believe both are reasonable), then Lee and DeRo are virtually the same player offensively (+/- 25 OPS points), and both are RHBs. I’m ignoring age, because performance in 2009 is what is important.

In your first scenario (DeRo-SS-Cajuns-Ramy), your corners are effectively the same offensively as 2008. (I’m ignoring defense for the moment.) Your 2B platoon will produce slightly more than your SS did last year. (I don’t think it would be significantly more, because I don’t think that LBR can hit all RHPs effectively.) That means that you would not improve the team offensively unless your SS could come close to matching DeRo’s production from 2008. That SS will not be named Erick Aybar or Maicer Izturis. Unless you can sign Furcal, this arrangement will be weaker than last year’s team offensively.

So, unless you can sign Furcal (or trade for A-Rod and move him back to SS), I believe that the 2008 setup will be better offensively.

Your scenario might very well provide better defense — depending on who the SS is — if either Ramy or DeRo takes well to 1B. DeRo hates playing there, but I think he would become very good very quickly if he were put there full-time in ST — he has great hands. I’m not sure that Ramy would take kindly to being asked to move, and I doubt that Lou would want to push it.

You are also assuming that DLee would accept a trade to the Angels (has he played in the AL before?), and that the Cubs would want a SS rather than Figgins and/or (shudder) Matthews (to even up the money).

In short, I don’t think your dream scenario is realistic.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

The 2008 scenario will be better offensively

but there’s a ton of ground to be made up defensively if we get a real SS. I don’t know that Lee would accept any trade, however, when I read through Al’s post, he says that he has inside info on one of his transactions – since most of his transactions are built around a DLee trade to the Giants, and since Al not only thought the Lee-Cain was a realistic rumor but thought we might get more than Cain, I’m finding the realism of a Lee trade go up.

i.e., Al says he knows of one trade possibility the Cubs are looking at – it can’t be a deal for Huff, because we need Lee gone to have a place for Huff. It can’t be a Cain-Nolasco swap because we have to get Cain before that can happen. That leaves the DLee trade.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2008 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I need an answer to a question that I don't have...

(Colin, are you there?)

How much impact would a GG SS have specifically on the Cubs’ defense, and would Adam Everett (for instance) save more runs defensively than he would prevent the Cubs from scoring by his weak offense?

The Cubs’ pitchers led the league in Ks last year, which meant that fewer balls were put into play. Thus, Riot’s weak arm, Sori’s fear of the wall, and Ramy’s erratic throws come with less frequency than they would behind a GB staff. (Contrast that with the Brewers backing up Suppan with Rickie Weeks at 2B.) How many fewer runs would the Cubs have given up with Everett at SS vs. Riot? I’m not sure that even Colin could answer that.

A large part of the Cubs’ offense was generated by the bottom of the order setting up Sori. DeRo scored 103 runs, and Sori drove in 75 despite missing 8 weeks. Until Dome started stinking and sinking to the #8 spot, the Cubs were strong 1-8, and also had 2 good-hitting pitchers to pitch in offensively. How would an automatic out in the #8 spot affect the offense? Theoretically, that is why Lou benched Pie so quickly — he thought he needed production in the #8 spot.

The bottom line is winning games, and the age-old question of defense vs. offense will probably never be solved.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 21, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Food for thought

The roster changes proposed are something to chew on while waiting for next season’s roster to take shape.

Comments:
The Cubs do need another outfielder because of the Fukudome/Edmonds situation. Luke Scott sounds like a practical option. I find it hard to believe Fukudome will be off the roster next season; more likely he’ll start the season in a platoon arrangement in RF or CF. I got the impression Lou isn’t high on Edmonds, I doubt Edmonds will be back.

For the infield, I’d rather Theriot play 2B and bring-in another SS. That still makes Cedeno expendable. I’m not as anxious to get Lee off the team as I am in getting him out of the 3-hole.

In the rotation, Harden and Zambrano missed starts or had starts pushed back. I would rather Marshall be retained assuming Samardzija isn’t ready for a major league starting job. Nolasco is a great idea. For budget purposes, it is probably a good idea to trade Marquis.

Help needed for the bullpen, but one more good arm might do it.

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 20, 2008 1:30 PM CDT reply actions  

You would rather have Theriot at 2B than DeRo?

You would dump an .857 OPS to make room for a .745 OPS? I’m glad you aren’t the GM…

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

And tell me the last time you saw Theriot

break up a double play…

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

More important to get a SS

It’s more important to get another SS. Second base is a better position for Theriot. DeRosa can play OF and do the supersub thing.

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 20, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, "supersub" implies that you don't want him playing every day.

I’d much rather have DeRo’s bat than Theriot’s at any position. (Yes, I still believe that DeRo is the better SS.) Theriot’s best position defensively is 2B, but the Cubs have a 2B with a more than adequate glove and a 100 point better OPS bat. It would be much easier to find a good OF bat than to find a good MI bat (especially a LHB), so leaving DeRo at 2B helps the Cubs offense more than putting him in the OF.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

No No Nolasco

I spend most of my time in Florida, and know a few of the Marlin staff. Rickey is not going anywhere. The Marlins have the new St adium deal done, they need the front line pitching Rickey, Johnson, Sanchez to fill the seats….. a better shot would be Scott Olsen
they might trade him & I would like to see Uggla on the Cubs I don’t think they want to pay him the 6mil…… DeRo my fave is getting old, so is DLee but I don’t think the Giants
are that stupid to let go of McCain……. Millar is an old clown he was good when he was with the Marlins………… FUKU is going to come back strong he needed the break in year.
Otherwise a lot of good points

by nimblenikelfoos on Oct 20, 2008 1:37 PM CDT reply actions  

CF

Fukudome/Reeed Johnson platoon in CF next year IMO. I’d rather see Pie get a shot but……..Lou will not go into 09 with Pie in CF……I think all here realize that by now.

by plenz on Oct 20, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

If they won't let go of McCain,

What about Palin? Is she available?

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Oct 20, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Check back on that one after November 4 ;)

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 20, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

She's the governor of Alaska...

and that is all she will ever be. I don’t need to check back after Nov. 4- I’d bet my salary that Obama will be the next President.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's very appropriate that you're willing to sacrifice your salary...

considering what you’re going to get to do with it after he’s elected.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh...so your boss get's to give his money away...I see...

and try and not become too successful in the next 4 years so you can stay away from that tax hike.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2008 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I'm making a quarter of a million a year...

I’d be more than happy to pay more taxes, (so that someone who is making piddly like me presently can pay less taxes-and keep more money in their pocket). I’ve been rich, and I’ve been poor- I know that many people live below the poverty line, (as I did for years without insurance), and it is maddening to have to give so much of that back to the government in taxes. This is same argument that this nation has been having since Nixon- trickle down, voo-doo economics, whatever you want to call it.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't want to get into it here, (b/c Al doesn't want it), and other reasons...

but you are right, people giving money to the government doesn’t necessarily help people in poverty. But I’m all for people that are middle class or poor paying less taxes than those that make more. I believe it is fiscally responsible that those that make more, pay more. I know what it is like to have to decide between eating & not eating. To whom much is given, much will be expected.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

We agree on the fact that people making less money should pay less taxes...

and If you look at the IRS tax tables…you’ll see that is exactly how it’s set up. The IRS numbers show that the top 25% wage earners pay almost 85% of the taxes….do you think they should just pay 100% and let the rest of us off the hook? OK…you don’t have to answer that…we should discuss this in some other forum.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let me know if you find one . . . I'll join the discussion

(and tend to agree with you)

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Palin might be available

But she TOTALLY sucks against left handed pitching, she can’t hit it to save her life. We NEED more lefties in our line up.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I don't mind losing a little defense

though personally I think their are some excellent fielding lefties but the bigger issue is how damn clueless all the
righties are, I mean if you can’t score any runs because you are so focused on trash talking the other team that you can’t or won’t do anything to support your own ,it really does not matter what happens on defense.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

She's still hot, though

That’s ok to say here, right?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Alec Baldwin can say it you can too

but not sure I agree. I mean hot in comparison to Biden , you betcha, hot in comparison to say Angelina Jolie well I guess
that must be a guy thing as I can’t see that.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

The whole school teacher look adds intrigue

And, I realize the door I’m opening here, but — Angelina is a nut job.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well a lot people think I am a "nut job"

but I would not mind looking like that. Nope not touching the school teacher thing but it beats being interested in
school girls ( unless you ARE that age of course).

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, not that age or into that sort of thing....

I don’t know you, but I suspect you’re not as goofy as Angelina. And yes, she is attractive.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have Brad either.

My life sucks.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

Neither does Jennifer Anniston . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

No she doesn't

She can have John Mayer, Lance Armstrong etc but Brad now that man is HOT.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 20, 2008 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

He sure does dress funny

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

This mini thread really came out of nowhere

i thought I was on the wrong site

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you are dreaming if you think Dome is going to swallow his pride...

and go back to Japan. I think that he will stay, and be the starter in RF. Additionally, unlike many others, I think Lee will rebound & have a stellar year in ’09. Replacing Lee & Dome is a mistake, especially with Millar, Scott & Huff.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 1:40 PM CDT reply actions  

agreed on Fukudome

There is no way in hell he goes back to Japan. What kind of person just packs it in after one half season of poor play? Any athlete or competitor for that matter is going to stick it out and take on the challenge. He’d be living for the rest of his life in “what if” mode.

by uwbadger on Oct 20, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree...

…I have played against Japanese teams and they are driven by immense pride in everything they do and it comes from their culture.

For him to walk away with a settlement, would go against everything these guys stand for. I won’t tell you for sure he will tear it up offensively next year, but he will leave nothing on the table in regards to trying to make an adjustment.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice work, Al.

As others have said, there’s a lot to digest here and, while I can’t say I agree with everything, I will say you’ve given an excellent overview of the situation, made some bold predictions and done some nice out-of-the-box thinking. If Phil Rogers thought things through this deeply, maybe I wouldn’t reflexively sneer whenever I read his column.

About Kosuke…wow…that would be a shocking development. Were I a betting man, however, I think I’d put my money on Dome sticking around for another year. Worst case scenario he spends some time in Triple A working on his swing and winds up as a fourth outfielder/defensive replacement. (Yeah, a damn expensive one.)

I can’t say I completely disagree with you, though. I have a hard time picturing Lou ever taking Dome back into the fold as a starting player. Kosuke would have to hit .300 for at least three months, if not four, for Lou to even consider it. And you know Lou would pull him from the lineup at the first sign of an extended slump. If the Cubs do acquire a big lefty bat for right field, I’d guess Dome would have to wait for an injury to get another shot at starting.

If Edmonds does retire, however, I could see Dome and RJ platooning in center. I think it’s safe to say that the Cubs “promise” to hold right field for Kosuke has effectively expired.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 1:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Jake Fox?

I think Fox deserves a shot at replacing Hoff/Ward’s spot. I really like the idea of having someone with decent hitting ability off the bench for key pinch hitting situations

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Oct 20, 2008 1:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Ugh....

Why does there have to always be “the next Jason Dubois, Matt Murton, etc.” on this ballclub? Jake Fox isn’t major league material in the same manner that Micah Hoffpauier isn’t either.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

i like Jake Fox moreso than most....

He can really pound a baseball

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Give him BlueMike's e-mail address and he'll find out soon enough.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

He may be the next murton/dubois/etc

But he wouldn’t be starting. he would be a guy to come off the bench and pinch hit

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Oct 23, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, a pinch hitter should have decent hitting ability.

That much I’ll agree with.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Final words of the water pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 20, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be helpful, wouldn't it?

Just imagine if they only had “walking ability”?

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 20, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

If he can continue to show an ability to judge off-speed pitches

he’ll have a chance in spring training. That said, it would take an amazing spring for him to jump over Hoffpauir.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 20, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Couple thoughts

1. Good write up Al. I thouroughly enjoyed it.

2. I want no part of Aubrey Huff.. He is way too inconsistent for me. That being siad he did have some sick numbers last year…

3. Matt Cain>>>>>> Ricky Nolasco>>>> Derek Lee….

4. I think D Lee goes to San Fran with Theriot and a prospect or two for Cain. I would love that. Replace Theriot with OneDec or someone with a bat and replace Lee with Dunn..

Like the pitching staff of Cain Z Lilly Dempster Harden…

Do you think Rich Hill ever pitches again?

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 1:52 PM CDT reply actions  

Rich Hill

I don’t think he ever plays above AA ball. Just like I dont’ think Rick Ankiel will ever pitch again, and why Vince Young won’t hold down a starting job in the NFL ever again. Mental problems are more severe than any physical injury and they can only get worse when the media gets a hold of them and draws more and more attention to it

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Oct 23, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

i also believe that our window of opportunity is closing quickly

before Sorianos deal is jsut a payroll eater and Rammy declines and Soto has caught 8,000 games…. Just some food for thought…. Trade Lee

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Oct 20, 2008 2:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Ronny Cedeno and his three brain cells as everday shortstop??

Tell you what, why don’t we eliminate the rush and send letter to Bud Selig now that we officially concede the 2009 season.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe he was NIU's

Ronny Cedeno.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Oct 20, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would have completely agreed with you.

But one thing popped in my mind. I know this is kinda a fluke thing, but I can remember a certain Cubs SS who had a big majority in ruing a season. I wont get into much detail, but theres something about 1 Out in the top of the 8th inning in Game 6 of the NLCS while the Cubs were winning in that game, and actually the series 3-2. But once again, not to get into too much detail.

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...

by LPLancer23 on Oct 20, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I remember a certain pitcher throwing a wild pitch in that same inning...

and I remember a team quitting in the 4th inning of the next game…sorry that argument will NEVER work in baseball…you can’t blame one player for a failed season.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but you damn well can blame the manager!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can you partially blame a player?

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 20, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didnt say I completely blame him

I was playing Devils Advocate. I realize i didnt really make that clear.

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...

by LPLancer23 on Oct 20, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good read

1. I enjoy well thought out posts like this, regardless of how much I agree or disagree with it. I’d post my own, but I don’t think anyone would care enough for it to warrant it’s own fan post.

2. I really take issue with the part at the end… “exactly one of the potential transactions I’ve mentioned, which I have heard the Cubs are interested in making. Speculate away — I’m not telling.” What’s the point of posting that? To show off about your sources? If you’re “not telling” then why bother saying you have info?

by kanderber on Oct 20, 2008 2:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Sign of the End.

Yankees and Cowboys form partnership to handle sales at new stadiums and calls it “Legends Hospitality.” Unpretentious, just like the Yankees and Cowboys.

Link

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 20, 2008 3:38 PM CDT reply actions  

I think we have the curse of Neifi Perez

ever since he has been our starting SS, none have fared well at that position

2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..

by Chanman25 on Oct 20, 2008 3:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Alex Gonzalez, anyone?

n/t

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Oct 20, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, he led all NL SS in HR in 03

So there was that

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, Gonzo should have won the gold glove in 2003

He was great during the regular season. Yes, he gets a free pass from most of the baseball world for one play in particular, but as SWL pointed out, he didn’t throw the wild pitch. Neither did he miss the cutoff man, come in from the bullpen and get lit up, fail to put together an adequate bullpen, etc.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Giants aren't Santa Claus

It will take lots more than DLee to get Matt Cain. Their young pitchers are the only thing they’ve got going for them and they won’t break up the rotation.

Ricky Nolasco was arguably Hendry’s worst move as GM. I’m glad he’s got a 4 year extension, but let’s face it. Nolasco ain’t coming back.

I’m extremely skeptical about Fukudome going back to Japan. If he flops again in 09, maybe. But he’ll be back, and we’ve got to hope he finds his batting stroke.

by Clark Addison on Oct 20, 2008 4:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Nolasco MIGHT be back.

As I said, the Marlins are definitely going to shop him considering he’s in line for a huge pay increase, which they won’t be interested in paying.

I’d expect the Cubs to be at the front of the Nolasco line.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

If we got Nolasco...

I’d just as soon use the money Dempster would get to fill an actual need.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 20, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Likewise

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't expect them to move Nolasco

They’ll sell high on Olsen, I think, and keep Nolasco there for another year. They’ll probably clear out some pieces like Jacobs, an OF, Gregg. Those few moves would be enough, in all likelihood, for thier budget, and after that, they may ponder moving a 2nd OF, maybe Uggla. They aren’t likely, imo, to deal Nolasco (Olsen, comparatively, has poor scouting reports on him so they may be more open to that).

by toonsterwu on Oct 24, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

My two cents...

Well your post is real thought out and nicely presented, I do have a couple of problems with it. First, A. Huff is not a national league guy, he can’t catch a ball, with a glove on both hands. I am friends with a guy that grew up with him, and his comment to me was that he was always clumsy. Now I do think he can hit a ton,but, thats to much to give up for him.Now, we need to address the biggest problem, getting Fonzie out of the leadoff spot, that takes getting Furcal, Theriot is at his highest point ever to trade so pull the trigger. Look at the teams that were still in the playoffs, true leadoff’s. The center field spot is also a bad answer, Jimmy and Reed can’t do what we need, on a day in day out deal. Spend the money and get a star quality centerfielder. I like the pitching line up(howry has to go,Cotts could also). Kerry Wood needs some looking at also, he missed alot of games with a blister(c’mon,you believe that one) I realize I havent lined out answers here, but I havent looked around for them yet. You run a great blog Al, as a Cub fan, I thank you dearly, this is the first time I’ve thought about my team since, well you know .

ernie81

by ernie81 on Oct 20, 2008 5:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Your comments, and everyone's here, are appreciated.

This is why I made this post, to start discussion, and I think it’s been great. We’re not all going to agree on everything, and I put this together as a starting point.

What is for sure is that everyone here has pretty strong opinions about who they want to see in the blue pinstripes next year — and almost everyone had good reasons for their positions.

Thanks to you and everyone else for your thoughts today!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ernie...

Kerry Wood had a bad blister, they didn’t need to risk throwing him out there with a blister, only to see it rip totally open- and lose him for 2 months or so. Everyone needs to let go of the thinking that the Cubs are lying to us regarding injuries, (esp. to Wood). Educate yourself. Blisters for pitchers are big things, to the everyday man, a blister is something you put a band-aid on, to a pitcher- well… it’s a BIG deal.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 20, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know what a blister is....

And I live about 30 min. from Kerry’s hometown, I’m a Kerry Wood fan for sure, but, with all that’s gone on with him over the years, where there’s smoke, there’s fire bro.

ernie81

by ernie81 on Oct 20, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me too...

I wish we could get a Brad Lidge story, since we are wishing here. How about Cordero from Cincy? He was lights out here in Texas for a while.

ernie81

by ernie81 on Oct 20, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jimmy, I respect your opinions a lot, but --

The Cubs have given us ample reason to suspect the veracity of injury reports.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al, I'm curious.

What is the BCB record for comments on a post?

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 6:04 PM CDT reply actions  

On a regular post or game thread?

Different sorts of posts. This one’s probably way up there in terms of a “regular” post, especially in the offseason, but it wouldn’t come close to some of our game threads.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was thinking regular posts

You answered my question nonetheless

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some good Peavy news, I suppose.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/cards-not-likel.html

Its apparently down to the Cubs, Padres and Braves. Most seem to think the Braves are the leaders, but would it cost them Escobar, Kelly Johnson and more?

I dont see this as likely, but if they can pull this one out of left field, let Dempster walk and use that cash elsewhere.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 6:06 PM CDT reply actions  

You meant the Dodgers, not Padres, right?

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 20, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha, yeah

whoops….I suppose they can trade him, then trade back for him

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let Edmonds go

but re-sign Reed Johnson. Hell, I’d even try him at leadoff.

Soriano should be hitting 3rd or 5th, and we need a left handed bat to break up all the righties.

by Clark Addison on Oct 20, 2008 6:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Or get players to bat in front of him

Capable of hitting a double.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

My thoughts (a focus on defensive contributions)...

Ok, I’m using the Revised Zone Rating (RZR) defensive metric from The Hardball Times, as well as Value Over Replacement Player (VORP – which takes into account only offensive contributions) as references. Rather than spout off number that few people really understand, I’m going to make comparisons to other ballplayers to give people a feel for where pertinent players are ranked defensively and offensively.

C,2B,SS,3B,LF starters are all pretty much set I think…others may disagree, but I’m limiting my post to positions outside of these.

1B is a tricky one:
Derrick Lee was about league average defensively this year. Aubrey Huff truly is more of a DH as his defense is on par with Jason Giambi and Prince Fielder. Kevin Millar’s defense isn’t much better, about equal with uninspiring names like Ross Gload, Richie Sexson, and Adam LaRoche.

Offensively, Huff was more valuable than any other DH in the AL this year! But in 2007, he was sandwiched between Jose Vidro and Billy Butler offensively. Would we yet again be over-paying for a career year? Kevin Millar’s offense was just below replacement level last year – meaning he’s probably in line for a demotion to a back-up role.

I just don’t see these guys being as valuable to us as Derrick Lee. Derrick still provides sound (if league average) defense with a plus bat at the position (still on par with the likes of Carlos Pena – the cleanup hitter on the World Series bound Rays). That said, if we can ship Derrick Lee off and get Cain in return (highly unlikely as others have pointed out) I’m all for it!

And, if you absolutely must improve at 1B, I think the only way to do that both offensively and defensively is to sign Mark Teixeira, so good luck with that…. Otherwise, I fear an offensive regression to the mean from Huff combined with his poor defense would not put us in any better spot than we’re already in with Derrick. Also, if you just move his bat out of the 3 hole, all of a sudden he doesn’t look so bad anymore.

CF/RF – I’m tying these together since I think we’ll have some overlap in these positions next year.

Defensively, Edmonds and Johnson provided similar results. Edmonds was a little better, similar to Grady Sizemore, while Johnson is more comparable to Carlos Beltran and Coco Crisp. Both are ahead of some pretty impressive speedsters defensively such as Granderson, Upton, Victorino, and Bourn. A few interesting notes, perhaps due to small sample size: Pie rated quite a bit lower than those two, nearing the bottom of the list for CF. Whereas Fukudome actually scored incredibly high in very limited CF action. For RF, Fukudome was expectedly very good finishing in the top 3 defensively. In comparison, Luke Scott was not so good defensively last year in LF (worse than Soriano), but he played RF before in Houston, where his defense was top 5 in 2007.

Offensively, Scott was on par with Fred Lewis and Josh Willingham this year (RF comparables would be Denard Span and Elijah Dukes). Fukudome was still actually above replacement level offensively (thanks to OBP), placing between Jose Guillen and Jay Bruce. Actually, that Dome placed better offensively than all-everything prospect Jay Bruce makes me feel a bit better. Edmonds matches up closely with Jody Gerut, Cody Ross, and Mike Cameron despite his horrendous beginning to the season. Reed Johnson was comparable to Scott Hairston and Coco Crisp, a couple of other good role players.

The big weakness in this lineup, as many have stated is a good middle of the order lefty bat. Edmonds filled the void this year very well, but can he do it next year and at what price? I was in the camp that thought Edmonds was a great signing from the beginning since I felt his defense would help even if his bat couldn’t. And I’d like to hold onto him, since he’s still looking good. But at the same time, he’s earned a hefty contract that could affect potential re-signings of Wood and Dempster, both of whom should take priority. Plus, I think we’ve got a Dome problem (he’ll be with the team, I’m convinced) and a young, lefty CF who needs a shot at the majors this year. I would argue that we would be well served to go into spring training looking at a CF platoon of Reed Johnson/(Dome or Pie). That lets both of our lefty OFs who are in Lou’s doghouse the chance to fight their way out of it.

If this scenario plays out, we’re now in need of a RF and I think Luke Scott fits the bill pretty well. I don’t want to go into too much more detail on possible RFs other than to say that Soriano doesn’t belong there and of the options discussed, Dunn played the worst RF this year of anyone who logged more than a few games there. Likewise, Ibanez wouldn’t work as he’s worse than Dunn in LF. Also, Pat Burrell is just shy of Manny Rameriz for worst LF’er, so I can’t imagine him playing in right. That leaves us with the true RFs or someone who plays an exceptional LF. For free agents, Bobby Abreu is in the lower tier defensively, but is still an elite hitter, so he would be an option. Trade is the more likely route as players like Randy Winn (top RF defense, offense similar to Alex Rios) and Brain Giles (average defense, top 5-10 offense) might be had for the right package. Another name to throw in from left field is Matt Holliday. The Rockies won’t be able to sign him as a FA, but they’ll want a King’s ransom for him by trade if they let him go. He does have an incredible bat and top 3 LF defense, so I’m sure we could fit him in. :-)

by smoldering on Oct 20, 2008 6:26 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

To land Tex

what are we looking at giving up, or is it so out of the realm of possibility that it wouldn’t even be worth discussing? I don’t see him as the cure for our ailments, but he would be an improvement.

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 20, 2008 6:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Tex is a free agent

so probably 25-30 million a year for 6-8 years.

by smoldering on Oct 20, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tex is the dream one

Like Al was saying about the clubhouse chem.. I watched Tex tear the Rangers apart, with his me first attitude.But, man can he play ball!

ernie81

by ernie81 on Oct 20, 2008 6:40 PM CDT reply actions  

Season splits are nice

What appeals most about Tex is he gets better as the year goes on. He’s the type of guy whose games peaks at the right time – end of the season/playoffs.

by smoldering on Oct 20, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've never heard from any of my Ranger fan friends that Tex was any problem at all in the clubhouse.

The one “me-first” thing he did was refuse to move from 1B to the OF to make room for Adrian Gonalez, but most guys who have already established themselves at one position would have done the same thing. We are just spoiled by DeRo. FWIW, Gonzalez also refused to move to the OF — even though he was not an established player — so that he could force a trade.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

With the Angels

he was a model citizen….true professional hitter and teammate…

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Oct 21, 2008 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Finally made it through the comments - now to the original post

First: Thanks, Al.

I totally agree that Al is right about the importance of the organizational philosophy to winning clubs, however I think he has misdiagnosed it a little. The Yankee Philosophy (summed up as the mercenary collection of high-priced free agents) has a fundamental weakness – each player is playing for money for a team that values them based on past accomplishments. Contrast this with clubs that develop players or trade for undervalued players who have yet to reach their potential – those players know they are valued by the organization’s belief in their future performance. That is a lot more likely to inspire a player.

So, Al put forth a strong plan to acquire non-name players to fill the Cubs holes. It was good to read – but did it really catch what was needed if the goal is to follow the superior organizational philosophy? I don’t think so. Al’s plan did not build on our prospects – it traded them away. Al didn’t seek to acquire players who we could show faith in – say, Jeremy Hermida or Dallas McPherson – he collected guys who’ve already proven their value but just haven’t become stars.

Contrast the Boston and Tampa way with the Cub way. Jacoby Ellsbury had a horrific fall-off in June and July. Rather than cut him loose, Boston stuck with him and saw him rebound in the last 6 weeks of the season. When Fukudome struggled at the same time, we didn’t build him up, we ran them down. Ellsbury is a part of Boston’s future. When Evan Longoria’s AVG sunk at the beginning of the season, the Rays didn’t send him back to AAA as we did with Pie. Now, Longoria’s at the heart of their team. Dome and Pie are largely written off by us, despite the investments we’ve made in them. Tampa Bay dug Carlos Pena out of a dead-end minor league career and revived him. They stuck with Willy Aybar despite some difficult off-field issues. Those playrs don’t just want to play baseball and win, they’ve also got a reason to want their TEAM to win.

Whether we’re talking Aubrey Huff or Raul Ibanez, I’m not sure there’s much difference there on organizational philosophy. I appreciate Al’s thoughts on this and want to get a little feedback on what I saw as his foundational question – what is the way to win?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 6:57 PM CDT reply actions  

I think you make a good point

The way to be successful long-term is to do what the Braves and Yankees did in the 1990’s. Grow talent in the farm system, mix one or two new players in each year and add a free agent or two when necessary.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take a look at the Cubs that succeeded in the post-season.

Mark DeRosa is the perfect example of a guy Jim Hendry believed in and gave a starting job and backed up. Mark DeRosa performed in the playoffs. Mike Fontenot performed in the playoffs. Sure, small sample sizes, etc. But if we’re looking for “heart” and undefinable team-playeritude, rather than wonder, “Does Millar have it?” why not try and colonize it?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you...

… that the organizational philosophy has to change, and you gave good examples in Ellsbury and Longoria (and you could have added Pedroia, too) on teams that stuck with their guys through rough stretches.

However, doing this will require building from within for several years and changing a mindset. In the meantime, we have a contending team that is built to WIN NOW. In that sense, why not take one of the parts that made one of those other teams successful and try to get that “win no matter what” attitude in here that way?

It can’t hurt. It just might work.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree to some extent.

The Cubs could trade Lee for Cain, DeRosa for Rafael Perez and believe in Hoffpauir at 1B, Mike Fontenot fulltime at 2B, Pie at CF, and Dome at RF – but that’s a lot of risky faith there. The Cubs need to pick their spots and do their homework.

For example, I’d suggest they decide which guy they believe in more – Felix Pie or Jeremy Hermida. If it’s the former, give him the CF job, but go out and get a solid LH RF, so Pie’s bat can do whatever it can at the 8 spot. If it’s the latter, go sign Milton Bradley and put Bradley, Hermida, and Dome on an OF rotation to get the first two injury-prone guys plenty of rest.

That’s what the Sox did – broke in Pedroia last year and Ellsbury this year and Youkilis several years back. Next year it will be Lowrie. They didn’t do it all at once. They break them in gradually, and we can, too. Indeed, if we don’t start this year, when will we start?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm....

DeRo was groomed by the….

…Braves….. maybe that’s where he learned to win?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right

but it was Jim Hendry who finally said, “You’re a starter and we’re going to play you like that.”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, it was Buck Showalter who bruised several egos in Texas

by making him an everyday player, primarily in RF.

Randy Bush just happened to notice him after Buck put him on display.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yet another feather in Randy Bush's cap.

Remember how many people were appalled at the DeRo signing?

It’s one of the best free-agent signings in recent years, by anyone.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess Bush is even.

Wasn’t he the one who was pushing the Dome signing?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 21, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, that came mostly from the Pacific Rim scouting dept.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al, 'fess up...

Weren’t you one of the bashers?

Maybe that could be a Cub fan cleansing ritual: Put up a fan poll asking for everyone’s true confessions on whether they liked the DeRo signing at the time. It would give everyone a chance to clear his/her conscience and have a fresh start for 2009.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 21, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was for the DeRosa signing, but... wait for it...

that’s because I thought he’d end up platooning with Eric Patterson in 2009.

I liked the possibilities with DeRosa, but I don’t think any fan expected the two fantastic seasons he’s given us.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point, DGU.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I skimmed through all of the posts and my main reaction was

Cain AND Pie for Nolasco?

The Marlins would be laughing all the way to the bank with this one. Cain is one of the best young pitchers in the game, and a strikeout machine. Nolasco hasn’t shown us anything yet.

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Oct 20, 2008 7:31 PM CDT reply actions  

He hasn't?

15-8, had a fine ERA.

And he had 186 strikeouts. Guess who he was tied with?

Matt Cain.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I should back off a bit here

I like both of them for sure. I think Cain is more of a sure thing going forward than Nolasco, but I agree that both of them are good young pitchers. I don’t think the upgrade that we get by getting a quality young lefty (instead of a quality young right-hander) is not worth Pie – he’s a trading chip that we should invest somewhere else.

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Oct 21, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lots of different opinions...

the general consensus is we need a real lead off hitter and no one knows, perhaps including the team, what to make of Fukudome and Pie. And a growing contingent of fans believe Derrek Lee should be traded in favor of a left handed power hitter, failing that, he should no longer bat third.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let it be known....

That not all think we should trade D.Lee

ernie81

by ernie81 on Oct 21, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

2 1/2 hours later

I think I’ve read this whole diary. I like what Al wrote for the most part. I will say kinda tired of the i’m not telling who my source is stuff. I know its your site but give us the same respect you ask for. List a source when the unfounded rumors come up. I politely ask.

 I think its a pipe dream when asking for cain in a derek lee trade but I do agree 100% that he needs to go. Nolasco is a good idea but guess will have to see. One thing is for sure—-hendry is gonna have to be extremely creative this offseason and take some chances. I have many wishes that involve many scenarios as do most of you. I would like to throw a few out.

1st of all if wood and demp get crazy in their demands—-let them go—I repeat—let then walk away. stop with the emotion of your favorite player and use your heads—-wood is an accident waiting to happen. maybe give him a 2 yr deal with some monster incentives. same thing with demp but no more than a 3 yr deal with major incentives.

I love hank white but if he cost anything more than the 1/2 to 1 million—let him walk. I wouldnt mind having our old buddy paul bako back. cheap left handed backup thats been around a while.

same with edmonds—wish him well in all of his future endeavors—let him go. howry—well thank god he’s gone.

I few names I think are fa’s i would like to take a look at if they come cheap are baldelli,casey blake, and pavano. I think we need a fewcheap reclamation projects as its gonna take 7-8 starters to get through any season.

A few of my own trade dreams include a marlin trade involving us getting uggla,nolasco and kevin gregg; a ranger trade involving us getting byrd and michael young; a padre trade involving peavy.

I really think we would be smart to dump harden to a team liek the rangers who are in need of good cheap pitching. their a team who cant seem to get a big name FA pitcher. again they have byrd and michael young. young has a backup as does byrd. maybe een extending the deal to involve lee and their young 1st baseman—cant remember his name.

we really need to concentrate on the bullpen! who is anyone’s guess cause year in and year out they all seem to be hot and cold. no more than a 2 yr deal for any of them IMO.

dome isnt going anywhere in my opinion and I think he will rebound. hendry has his eyes set on roberts but dont think he will get him.

heres my opening day roster

c-soto/bako?
1b dero/hoff/millar??
2b fontenot
ss theriot
3b aram
lf sori
cf/Lf reed/dome/byrd?/blake?/ baldelli?

sp—-big z,lilly,marshall,marquis/??

i dont like marquis but i just cant see anyone taking him. I would really like to get another frontline starter and a couple reclamation projects.

again i guess this is all crazy speculation but again this has to be a chance taking active offseason for hendry.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 7:53 PM CDT reply actions  

another crazy idea

how about a d. lee to the yankees for johnny damon/cash? then we could have damon leading off with sori/rami/soto going 3,4,5??? just a idea!!

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus, don't the Yankees have about 15,000 first basemen already?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe theyre in the market actually

They can potentially clear 80M if they dont bring back The Giambino amongst others…..but cwyers is right about Damons OF abilities.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Depends on your definition of first baseman.

The Yankees have a lot of aging sluggers who are useless in the field (Matsui really needs to be at first). But they seem rather pigheaded about, well, playing Matsui and Damon in the outfield.

by cwyers on Oct 20, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that they are planning on making Matsui the full-time DH,

so Giambi is either the 1B (Yankee fans shudder), or a goner.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

realistically thinking

is what i’m trying to do here. yes i realize damon’s downfalls and the reason the yanks might wanna get rid of him. here’s my point cwyers:

 why are we(the fans) trying to get rid of lee? lost his power,hits into alot of double plays,lack of clutch hits,declining defensive abilities and bloated contract. right or wrong?

you just named the big reasons the yankees would wanna trade damon. back to the point—-why would someone else take our garbage and give us gold? they wouldnt you see. damon could be a 1-2 stopgap true leadoff hitter and serviceable cf/rf.

the yankees would get the best defensive glove they’ve had in awhile and a descent hitter. they dont need a #3 power hitting 1st baseman, cause they have enough slugger’s. something like a jeter,lee(which I think he’s suited for),arod………….etc

at times leadoff hitter can be overrated but in our case its time for sori to bite the bullet and realize he’s best suited for 3,4, or 5.

is there really another option out there besides a furcal who will cost us every penny we have left in budget with several other holes to fill?

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

another thing

Lee has a full no trade clause. why would he approve a trade to a loser like the giants? yeah he’s from the west coast but hasnt bothered him thus far being in florida and now chicago.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Regarding sources.

If you name your source, you may no longer have that source. There are things told to me that probably wouldn’t be if I named names.

I hope that makes sense.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure it makes sense.

Don’t name the source. (Of course if you tell me, you know I won’t tell anyone else.)

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course.

I’m still not telling.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

ok ok

i’m sorry was really trying to bait you into giving us a clue. didnt work but hey was worth a shot.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

You might have a point with Dempster and Wood

They were just discussing on espnews the Jason Varitek/Red Sox situation. They clearly stated the Red Sox dont let emotion sway their personnel decisions, and that at most theyd offer Varitek a 2/18M dollar deal, if he wants a Posada like deal, theyd let him go. Varitek has meant as much, if not more, to the Sox than Wood has to the Cubs.

This article intimates that Dempster is more of a priority than Wood, primarily b/c his deal in terms of years is less ambiguous.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081020&content_id=3633833&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc&partnerId=rss_chc

I dont know that we’d need Marlon Byrd, Reed Johnson already fills his role. Baldelli can no longer be a full timer b/c of his medical conditions.

Im really confused as to why there is a growing sentiment that Harden will be dealt even though they just kicked in his option.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know

that Casey Blake does not like LA. He likes Torre and his team mates but didn’t like the LA itself. His wife Abbey is a huge Cubs fan so I know she’d be thrilled if he was on the Cubs.

by sue369 on Oct 20, 2008 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Blake would be a fine acquisition.

He could play right field, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't he a RHB?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 21, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Still, a good player.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

and he seems to have the 'grinder' mentality that would play well in chicago

and hopefully rub off on teammates.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Oct 22, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Byrd & Young??

As long as there’s no pressure involved, there good….lol

ernie81

by ernie81 on Oct 21, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good luck/bad luck?
The key question that must have Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella and everyone else in Cubs baseball management scratching their heads is, “How could a team that won 97 games in the regular season not only lose in the playoffs, but look like a bunch of scared high school kids?”

Could it be that the Cubbies were a bit lucky during the regular season and a bit unlucky in the NLDS? That bit of good luck contributed to 97 wins on a team that wasn’t that good. And the bad luck that they were not as bad as they played.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 20, 2008 8:25 PM CDT reply actions  

To some extent, yes...

Although it’s impossible to quantify in any scientific manner, I would say that the Cubs definitely had more good luck than bad in the regular season, and more bad than good in the postseason. However, even that isn’t enough to quite explain the wide gulf between how the team played in April-September and how it played in October. Quite frankly, I’m not sure anybody will ever know for sure what the explanation is, and many volumes will be written trying to figure it out.

In any case, it’s obvious the Cubs need some tinkering this offseason in order to get everything right.

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman

by hip2bsquare on Oct 20, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

past not present, except...

In the past I’ve not given much credence to the distant history influencing the present in regards to the Cubs. What I mean is that when I’ve heard people say, ‘The Cubs always lose…’ I’ve thought “I don’t see how that impacts the present Cubs…” BUT… it seemed to me that the Cubs this year played with the weight of the Cubs history on their backs in the NLDS.

Just my thought.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 20, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I realize you're trolling, but...

Luck is more likely to be a factor over the course of a handful of games than it is over the course of a 162 game season.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you go by Pythagorean record to see how lucky or unlucky a team was, the Cubs were expected to win 98 games. They actually underperformed by one, while only playing 161 total this season.

The postseason is usually total luck. Any team can win or lose 3 out of 5. All it takes is building a consistent winner that gives itself more chances to have luck go its way. However, making the vast majority of changes in this article would make the team worse. Both the signings and trades. I mean, Alex Cintron? He didn’t make the team for a reason, and now we want him back at a higher price? Aubrey Huff, who isn’t even as productive as Lee? Luke Scott? Ricky Nolasco instead of Matt Cain? Jim Edmonds?? Lightning ain’t gonna strike twice with that one. Have we not learned the lessons of Jeff Blauser, Gary Gaetti, and others? And you dump on Soriano who only needed a partial season to lead our team in several offensive categories?

By the way, check out the leaderboard of rookies in VORP. It’s not who you think it is.

by northsider on Oct 24, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Soriano has worked out fine, he's produced.

He’s been terrible his career in the playoffs so maybe the Manager should think of giving him fewer opportunities by batting him down.

One of the things I noticed throughout the post is that Lou is apparently very stubborn with respect to players in his dog house. With a roster of older guys and no trade contracts, and no help from the far, that’s a very big negative to have in a Manager IMO.

I am not suggesting that the Manager be changed but that the roster be changed through more than tweaks. Huff & Scott are LHBs and they are good ideas, but I would call that Plan B—a very solid Plan B. But i’d prefer tat we et somewhat young and with guys who have both power and some OBP, so I’d prefer that Plan A be Dunn at 1B. He’s on the right side of 30 and this team needs to get better AND younger talent.

I am disappointed that Fukudome is apparently banished. Why don’t Managers ever get evaluated based on crap like this? I thought there was enough in Fukudome to warrant working hard with him, is he resistant to coaching? When a guy has to be released like that to me it’s a huge negative on the Manager and/or GM unless the player is a completely uncoachable jerk. It’s disappointing to see it come to that.

The 2009 Cubs could easily be the September 2008 Cubs if we just make tweaks. The team needs better and younger talent and since their farm system is empty it would favor bigger FA moves. There are a couple guys out there who wouldn’t be foolish signings primarily because they have strong track records and they are under 30. The team needs a nucleus like that and they are missing a player or two.

by DudeVf11 on Oct 20, 2008 8:46 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Perhaps Scott, if we could get him, would work in right. I’d love to see a platoon of Dome/Johnson in center, and re-signing Dempster & Wood. A loogy would be valuable. Otherwise, I just don’t see Hendry pulling the trigger. . . even though we’re still short a leadoff hitter.

by leothelip on Oct 20, 2008 9:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Long read, not much I have to say

But I agree that the Cubs should be looking at what teams offer for Lee, and it is likely they will trade him this offseason. I doubt they’d get young pitching for him, without including one of their own pitching prospects in return.

OK, OK, I’ll put down my crazy idea: Lee, Harden, and Pie to the Mets for Beltran and Heilman. Obviously, this assumes Delgado signs elsewhere and the Mets don’t sign Texeira.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by cubzfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Harden

great great pitcher whom I really like but again take your cub loyalty out and use good baseball judgement. on the market he could bring back good value. he has a 1 yr 7 mil contract. alot of small market teams that could contend like the twins,rangers etc might give up a nice return for a chance that he puts them over the hump.

if were betting our house deeds—would you bet he stays healthy and is the pitcher we want him to be? I wouldnt. If i’m betting— I say he stays hurt alot like this year and is a non-factor one way or another to us. I can live with him or without but just think nows the time to dump him to the highest bidder before he’s worth absolutely nothing next year.

even if he does what he does this year—I think someone will sign him to some absurd contract next winter. You think he will even be a type A FA??

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 9:32 PM CDT reply actions  

heres the logical 09 team

with no major upgrades:

LF sori(leading off again)
ss theriot
1b lee
3b aram
c soto
rf dome/derosa
2b derosa/lefty bat here??
cf-redd/dome/lefty bat here??

pitchers

z,lilly,harden,demp,marquis

bench-blanco,hoff,fontenot,cedeno,cheap bench player or 2 here

wood,marmol,shark,cotts,wuertz, new face or 2 here?

we will probably more than likely see the exact same team with a few cheap! add or drops. but hey I will speculate,hope, and enjoy the hot stove until next spring

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 9:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Even if we disagree on the details, Al's strategy is solid.

He is right that management doesn’t need to implode the team to make it successful in the postseason. The team needs players who can handle the pressure of the postseason and teach the other players, especially the younger ones, how to do that. However, the Cubs also need a balance of young and old players, with enough depth and youthfulness to allow the players to last the long ML season and the month-long postseason.

One concern I have about Al’s proposal is defense, especially by the 1B replacements. Though I agree that the Cubs will probably have to sacrifice a stellar player like D. Lee to get good players in return, the Cubs will need a good defensive 1B if they trade Lee. Just look at how bad Longoria looked at times in the series against Boston because Peña couldn’t handle some throws in the dirt. Lee helps Ramírez be a better 3B. Can the 1Basemen Al mentioned handle Aramis Ramírez’s frequent errant throws?

In the end, I am not optimistic that the team can win in the postseason under Lou Piniella. He is incapable of calming his players down and makes too many managerial mistakes that have cost the Cubs perhaps two games in the last two postseasons. Only a bunch of self-confident and talented players, with enough postseason experience, can overcome Lou’s attitude and managerial style.

by Fraggin Judge on Oct 20, 2008 10:22 PM CDT reply actions  

We need a Leadoff hitter and solid Lefty bat in the middle

Regardless the CUbs have to get a switch hitter/lefty leadoff guys. They also have to get a left with at least doubles power for the middle of the line-up to split up Soriano, Soto, Ramirez, and Lee ( if he’s still here) Lets assume we trade Lee for the Leadoff LH/Swich hitter 2b or SS). Okay, that solves 1 problem, then we get a slugger to play RF ( Hermida, Ibanez, Scott, or Milton Bradley ( I prefer Bradley as we wouldn’t have to trade anything) Then we have Micah playing first, if he fails after 2 months, we then can assume ( Pirates will be in last place after 2 months or so) we can pick up Adam Laroche at the trade deadline.

2009 Lineup

Speedy LH/Switch 2b we got from Lee Trade
Ryan Theriot SS
Aramis Ramirez 3B
Milton Bradley RF
Alfonso Soriano LF
Geovanny Soto C
Micah Hoffpauir 1B
Kosuke Fukudome CF

Keeping Micah and Kosuke at the bottom of the order puts less pressure on them so hopefully they can just concentrate on producing quality major league at bats.
Minor changes besides the Lee trade. This improves the balance of the line-up tremendously and the salary increase shouldn’t be ridiculous

What do you guys think??

by MrShowtime on Oct 20, 2008 10:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Who did you get in the DeRo trade?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 20, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't want to trade Derosa, he's very valuable

Derosa keeps everyone fresh as the super utility man. Someone will get hurt or if Micah is unproductive, we can insert him there.

by MrShowtime on Oct 20, 2008 10:31 PM CDT reply actions  

me either

dero isnt going anywhere. cost almost nothing and is way way to good.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where is the overflow? jk

I checked this thread this morning, it was at like 68. I am glad to see all of the Cubbies fans licking our wounds and getting on with our lives. Great post Al.

I don’t care who we get. Throughout the next year the roster will change many times. I think we will be good and win the division again. What will really matter is the late season aquistions, and the ability to play in October. We shall see.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Oct 20, 2008 10:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, I've definitely been sulking, i.e., walking wounded.

I can’t watch the playoffs at all.

But it’s nice to read this post. It makes me feel like we are turning the page.

I’m also glad there’s no discussion about keeping Aram at 3rd. That idiot columnist in the Tribune suggested trading him to make the ManRam deal more attractive to the Dodgers. What an idiot!

IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!

by Cubfansince1957 on Oct 20, 2008 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I truly believe we are going to go the New England Patriots way.

I don’t want to hear cheater or anything, that’s not what I’m getting at. And I’m a Bears fan!

Ok. I really think we are going to get a big time pitcher, whether it’s Peavy (please), C.C., Cain, E. Santana, or Nolasco.

I also think we take a gamble on Milton Bradley. Call me crazy, but this is the Randy Moss comparison. Getting older, supertalent, crazy guy, etc.. Wood won’t be back IMO, and we get a guy like Fuentes or a trade to solidify the back end of the BP.

I also anticipate Demp is back. I’d love a new leadoff hitter, but it really is doubtful.

This is my opening day lineup.

LF Soriano
SS Theriot
RF Bradley
3B Ramirez
C Soto
1B Lee
2B Dero
CF Reed/Pie

1. Peavy
2. Zambrano
3. Harden
4. Dempster
5. Lilly

Devin Hester, you are ridiculous! -Jeff Joniak

by ARAM FOR MVP on Oct 20, 2008 11:43 PM CDT reply actions  

I jumped in here at the end so I apologize if I echo another post

Many trades and moves sound interesting. To use a bad analogy, for the most part, the house is fine, the furniture just needs to be moved around. I think any suggestion where Soriano remains in the lead-off spot fails. Period. As a teacher. if I get told to teach economics when I truly want to teach US history, I may not like it, but I’ll teach econ because I still want to get paid. Soriano is a grown man and must accept a traditional spot in the line-up that is more condusive to his skill set(or lack there of). How many times did he strike out to start a game, Theriot singles, and D Lee GIDP? It was maddening to me and must have been for Cubs brass. Tell him now, let him pout over the winter, and welcome in your new 4 or 5 hitter in the spring. No trial period. No “we’re going to try this” crap. Tell him, “Alfonso, YOU ARE NOT A LEAD-OFF HITTER!!!”
Beyond that, I’ll accept any decisions made by my brethrend at BCB or our newly extended GM.

"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cheshire Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."

by Hagen on Oct 21, 2008 1:26 AM CDT reply actions  

A lot to digest...

Thanks for the background work Al.

I am disappointed though, and would be disappointed if that was our 2009 squad. The only way you deal Lee is if you can land Teixeira or a consistent proven 1B quantity (Huff does not fit that mold). Lee needs to bat 2nd though not 3rd if he stays. Fukudome stays unless he is mentally weaker than I think. Wood and Dempster are back unless we can miraculously trade for Peavy.

C, SS, 3B, & LF are almost set in stone.

I have seen no mention here (or missed it) of signing Orlando Hudson at 2B (although I think he is headed to the Mets) and moving DeRo to RF semi-permanently (sp?). Let Fukudome, Pie and a resigned Johnson battle for CF time. I also would kick the tires on Chone Figgens some too – although that would require Soriano moving down in the order.

We really still need a middle of the order LH power bat though with Teixeira as the best albeit fantasy option. Edmonds was a great find this year but won’t suffice especially if he starts slow like last year – I would almost (shudder) prefer going after Dunn for RF instead. Finally, I am intrigued by the idea of Milton Bradley although his health scares me too much.

I really think Hendry will need to get creative here or he will sit back and expect the same group to have the same results next year and hopefully a better postseason.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Oct 21, 2008 1:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Question

Doesn’t Lee have a no-trade clause? Has he indicated that he’s willing to waive it?

If I’m D-Lee, I’m not sure if I would want to go to the Giants.

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Oct 21, 2008 11:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Except that he's from northern California...

… and IIRC still lives there in the offseason.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2008 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

How is raiding the roster of the Baltimore Orioles going to improve a team that won 97 games last year?

by Robert F. Wagner on Oct 21, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions  

In my opinion

Sorry I haven’t responded to this yet. Kinda in the middle of a move to Hawaii. Here’s what my 2009 roster would like if my name was Lou Piniella.

C-Geo Soto
1B- Micah Hoffpaur (Trade D-Lee for someone who isn’t a double-play hitting machine)
2B- Mike Fontenot (He’s ready to play everyday)
3B- Ron Santo (after Aramis donates his legs to him) Kidding of couse I go with A-Ram
SS- Ryan Theriot (Maybe find someone to platoon with him in the Lee trade)
LF- Alfonso Soriano (Can he make it three straight postseason slumps?)
CF- Reed Johnson platooning with Kosuke Fukudome (DOME can’t handle everyday, and this gives him the chance to try to figure out what a breaking ball is)
RF- Mark DeRosa (I’d still give him a few starts at 2nd when Mike is sitting)

Pitching staff:
SP Z (Please stay healthy Z!)
SP Ryan Dempster (Whatever you did last off-season, do it again)
SP Ted Lilly (I really wish he would’ve made an appearance in the postseason)
SP Rich Harden (Glad to see him return, but he has potential to be Prior-like)
SP Sean Marshall (He’s ready to start a whole season. One of the few bright spots in the postseason. Maybe give Rich Hill another chance too…..nah)

And I suggest to Lou to have another competition for the closer role between Marmol, Woody, and Samardjiza.

Batting Lineup
SS Ryan Theriot
LF Alfonso Soriano
1B Micah Hoffpaur
3B Aramis Ramirez
C Geo Soto
RF Mark DeRosa
CF Kosuke Fukudome
2B Mike Fontenot
P Carlos Zambrano

I know there’s a lot of holes in here, but let me know what you think. Not too many big changes, but no need to change alot for a team that won 97 games in 2008.

by blakethesnake77 on Oct 22, 2008 3:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Drop the Hoff lovefest. He will never be the everyday first baseman for this team.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 22, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kevin Millar hunh?

Never thought about that but yeah I would like to see him a Cub. Totally agree no Manny and we’ve arlready been through Juan Pierre. I honestly hope though that Dome gets things straightened out and believe he will.

by iowacubfan69 on Oct 22, 2008 5:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Don't Understand

I just don’t understand the idea that this club has to be blown up in order to reach the next level. The common theme is that “anything can happen in a 5-game series” and I wholeheartedly agree with that. However, you can’t build a team in December for a 5-game series the following October. Quite simply, you build a team that will win 97 games like it did in 2008 and hope for the best that whatever you’ve added or subtracted along the way is enough to win the 5-game series and two 7-game series.

I think the idea that Derrek Lee is traded for Matt Cain is borderline absurd. Not only won’t the Giants do that but no matter what Lee’s numbers point to, he’s still a quality 1B, a quality hitter, a quality clubhouse guy and someone I want on my team. I don’t want him hitting third anymore, but I want him on my team.

Taking the hypothetical approach, if Cain is traded for, he’s not going to be spun off for Ricky Nolasco and his one-year wonder. Not to be just a fifth starter anyway as you’d be just as well off keeping Cain in that role. When Jason Marquis is one of the better fifth starters in the game, and yes, he is, there is no need to add a Nolasco or Cain for that matter, if you’re trying to build that 5-game series winner. They’ve already proven they can win 97 games with Marquis in the rotation (provided the other 4 remain), there is no reason to tweak it otherwise unless you can get a viable run producer in return for Marquis. Good luck with that.

I agree that Dempster and Wood should return and I’d take on Millar only if he’s the RH bat off the bench. I don’t subscribe to the idea that clubhouse frivolity will help this team advance to the NLCS. Winning breeds confidence and the 2008 team had plenty of that. They stumbled in the NLDS obviously but pranks and hee haws aren’t what is needed to advance.

Quite frankly, give me the same team that trudged off the field after getting swept by the Dodgers on Opening Day and I’m fine with that. Of course that isn’t going to happen but if it did, it would be tweaked along the way, some guys would have better years while others would have worse years but all things equal, it would still give the 2009 Cubs the best chance to move on to the playoff tournament.

More than anything, what the 2009 club needs is a run-producer at whatever position they can find and go from there. Ideally, such a player would reside in CF or RF but sometimes you can’t always get what you want. Add a run producer to that lineup and bring everyone else back and you’ve got the necessary recipe for 90+ wins, a division title and another shot at the elusive 5-game monster. If Soriano is that run producer, and I would argue that he’s not, then you change courses and find a leadoff hitter.

There is no need to break this team up. None.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Oct 22, 2008 10:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Just more evidence

on why this board is run by and supported by the dumbest people in all of sports.

by tempchad on Oct 24, 2008 4:29 PM CDT reply actions  

oh my

I don’t even know what to say after reading this.

And people actually Hendry to do these things?

Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.

visit the mindful mission

by big_lowitzki on Oct 24, 2008 4:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Apologies for watching the Tim McCarver show but.....

He had Jim Edmonds on as a guest and I’ve never actually read or heard much straight from him, so I watched. Edmonds said he is 50-50 on retiring. He has a restaurant in St. Loius and kids he’d like to spend time with, and he is newly married. He MAY not be willing to come back, and he said he’s pleased with his career. not expecting it to be as good as it turned out to be, especially since he started as a Pitcher and got hurt.

by jtiet on Oct 26, 2008 8:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Img_0001_small
Value of Various Plate Approaches
Katie_casey_small
Cubs' Fantasy Camp 2012 as seen by a Player's Wife
P7200073_small
Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp 2012
Caray_small
Yoenis Cespedes

Recent FanPosts

Caray_small
Is there any FA left worth going after?
Marvin_the_martian_small
Thoughts on Gerardo Concepcion: Trust the Scouts
Star_small
What if Hendry were still our GM instead of TheoJed?
Picture_6_small
Date for single-ticket sales?
Marlins-logo-new_small
New Manager Expectations
Fat_kid_small
Does Vitters have a shot this year?
Small
MiniCamp February 23rd

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Nice article about Ernie Banks
Yankees Hire Jim Hendry
Dale Sveum Meets Early Arrivals At Camp Buss
In honor of Prince Fielder's signing...Here is a classic McDonalds commercial with Cecil and Prince Fielder
Prince Fielder Signs Nine-Year Deal With Tigers

Recent FanShots

Cheech Knows Beisbol, Part 1
Ryan Rowland-Smith Is a Cub
Cubs, Garza Avoid Arbitration
Right Field Bleachers
A Photo Just Dying For A Caption
Slightly OT: Opening Day Info
Lannan available?
The Ricketts Family Announces A New Academy In The Dominican Republic
Old foes Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein catch up in Connecticut
Cubs vs. Cardinals tonight!

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Featured Poll

Poll
Andrew Cashner for Anthony Rizzo!
Yea!
1167 votes
Nay!
95 votes
Meh
164 votes

1426 votes | Poll has closed

It Is Only...

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges


Managing Editor

Alyellontoppscard_small Al Yellon

Front Page Contributors

Primary_fc_small Josh Timmers

Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

Other Contributors

Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima

Toonmike_small Mike Bojanowski