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MLB does it again

How often can MLB botch things up?  Last night was a complete debacle!  It has been noted on ESPN that Bud was not going to end this game until at least 9 innings were played.  In other words, he was taking the rule book into his own hands.  Personally, I dont have a problem with that.  The World Series needs to be played out!  Here is where I have a problem:  #1)  The players and public need to know before hand the rules by which the game is being played.  I find it completely irresponsible of MLB to allow me the fan to watch the game thinking it is being played under one set of rules when Bud changed that and didnt notify us.  Apparently he did notify both GM's.    #2)  I also have a problem that the game was played as long as it was last night.  Bud wanted the game stopped with a tie.  He got it.  He needed it!  Why, because we the fans did not know the rules and he knew there would be anarchy in Philadelphia!!!  The game should have been stopped at least an inning if not two prior.  The Phillies would have a 2-1 lead with 4 or 5 innings to play.  Because the fans didn't know Bud changed the rules, they would believe that the series is over and the Championship theirs.  The fans didnt know he intended to finish the game.  This is MLB manipulating the game, plain and simple.  It shouldn't happen and it could have been avoided if everyone knew the rules going into it.  This is not a group of kids playing Monopoly Bud, this is our Nations past time!!!  You dont make the rules up as you go along. 

 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Let me also say

that I have in the past been very critical of Bud Selig and MLB. When you have a monopoly you can get away with a lot. This is the 21st century, the century of transparency. Bud Selig doesnt get it. He thinks we still live in the old days with minimal television coverage and no internet. All MLB had to do was say before had “the games will be played in entirity”. Period! Then the umps dont need to worry about waiting for the game to be tied to stop. This reminds me of the botched Astros series. If Bud/MLB had stood up early and been decisive then it wouldnt have gotten so ugly. The weather (the ultimate uncontrollable) exposes flaws. It exposed flaws in our countries crisis response to Katrina, flaws in the dams in NO etc. So far this year it has exposed major flaws in MLB.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 28, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

All that matters is revenue from the TV.

Check out my Cubs shrine: http://picasaweb.google.com/vegascubfan/CubsRooms#

by VegasCubFan on Oct 28, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really tough decision

For once, I sorta give Bud and the MLB the benefit of the doubt. Should they have called the game earlier? Maybe. But when they didn’t, they weren’t really left with any other choice. Would you really have wanted the world series end bc of rain? Now that would have been a disaster.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

BUT, rules ARE rules!

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 28, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This rule was changed last year...

… to provide that any game that is rain delayed past a possible time of completion, automatically gets suspended. Many people don’t know this — perhaps including you.

To me, the mistake they made was starting the game in the first place. They knew heavy rain was coming and should have simply postponed it and played today.

In fact, with the forecast of rain all day and evening today, they should probably just wait till tomorrow.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The rule that wasn't put in place, though

Is the unspoken one here that the WS games need to be played in their entirety.

And, it probably should be a rule for all post-season games.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 28, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...

… which is why it should never have been started.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To play devil's advocate

Not trying to play the game, presents a number of problems with logistics. The Rays now have to scramble to find another hotel, flight arrangements need to be alterted, the fans who were there have to scramble to find alternative arrangements, etc….

I’m not saying the MLB was right, but I think they sorta felt they owed it to the game to at least try.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You raise a good point...

… about the Rays having to make alternate arrangements. Maybe this is something MLB could arrange ahead of time — for an extra night if necessary.

Fans? Well, I guess, but if my team’s in the World Series and I have tickets… I’m gonna make damn sure I’m available to go, whenever the game is.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As would I

But not everyone is as fortunate as you and I.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're coming from out of town,

it makes it very difficult as you have to arrange travel, lodging ahead of time.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 28, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Flight arrangements especially under these circumstances could be tricky. Remember, the weather also affects them too.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe the Rays stayed the night in Delaware

from what I’ve read.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

in Wilmington, Delaware ..

God, what a fate. Been there, done that, bought the antitoxin .. and took a long shower

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Oct 28, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey I live in Delaware

Depends where your at in Wilmington, as in all cities. Could be worse, like say Philadelphia, oops.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 28, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The players didnt even know

Nor did the announcers. Why was this not discussed at length? My problem does not lie with suspending the game but rather communication and when the timing of suspended it. Why did they wait until the tie? This game should have been suspended earlier period.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 28, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, it probably should have been.

Perhaps this will lead to a further tweaking of the suspended game rule.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that's the crux of the issue

This is where the MLB seems to always fumble the ball. They seem to always be reacting to situations like this, instead of being proactive and having contingency plans already in place for these sort of situations.

This rule needs to be tweaked. If the All Star game is going to “mean something,” then they need to add more players to the roster or implement a rule allowing players to re-enter a game. I have a feeling suggestions to rule changes could go on for a long time haha.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they might still be playing the all-star game

had Fukudome been throwing home in the 15th instead of Corey Hart…

I like the re-entry rule for the All-Star Game; plus, it would help keep players (at least the position players) from leaving early if there was a chance they could re-enter.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are 100% correct

MLB always is reacting instead of being out in front. I actually think they were trying to be in front but again botched that up. There is no way the 6th inning should have started! Why.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 28, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball is an extremely conservative institution

which means being proactive goes completely against the grain. Look at the opposition to base coaches wearing helmets, or the introduction of instant reply. Look at the sanctity of Wrigley Field. Nobody wants anything to change ever.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 28, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nor'easters tend to stick around

and with today calling for rain, and tonight with highs in the 30’s and gusts up to 40 mph, pushing it back until tomorrow seems like the best bet.

But then the question arises, would Thursday become an off day, with games on Friday and Saturday if necessary? Or would Games 6 and 7 be scheduled for Thursday and Friday, so as to avoid the Saturday evening game?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

… I have never flown from Philly to Tampa, but it doesn’t seem as if it’d be that long a flight. My guess is that they’d probably try to stick with Thursday/Friday, if there’s no chance of finishing today.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't imagine it'd be a long flight

and I would think Fox would want to avoid the Saturday night game (even if it’s a Game 7) because of all the other options on TV that night.

At least if there was a Game 7 on Friday night, you’d have some people at home, because they’ll be passing out Halloween candy.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's my understanding that the off day has now been eliminated

and game 6 will be played the day after game 5 is completed (whenever that happens) and game 7 will then be played the next day.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 28, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

gotcha, thanks.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 hours and some change

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 28, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can not see how they will play the game tonight

I live an hour north of philly. It is downright nasty! Cold, raining, windy. This is suppose to continue into tomorrow but clear out tomorrow night and just be cold and windy tomorrow. They should post pone to then. If Phils lose, anyone’s guess as to how the rest plays out in Tampa? It could be Thurs/Friday or Friday/Saturday?

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 28, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The new rule ONLY applies...

…to official games, where the visiting team takes the lead in the TOP half of the inning, In other words, had Tampa Bay NOT scored in the top of the 6th, the game, BY THE RULES, would have been OFFICIAL, AND FINAL.

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Oct 28, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theyre not gonna end the night games...

So perhaps if they played at 7pm instead of 8pm and cut out all the histrionics before the first pitch, the game could start before 8:20 or whatever it was, sure its only an hour, but it couldve made a difference, and us east coasters wouldnt have to stay up all night.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 28, 2008 9:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is a whole other topic

Why could MLB have been watching the forecast and moved the game up 90 minutes last night? You dont move the weather, it moves you. God forbid they adjust off the 8:30 start. It all goes back to money.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 28, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it has to do with money. That's the reason they are playing baseball in late October. This is

what you get when you play baseball outdoors in northern cities this time of year. Guess what folks? It rains up here this time of year. The weather is very unpredictable.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no way they adjust the start on that short notice.

While I did say above that if my team’s in the WS, I’m available to go, if they suddenly move up the start time 90 minutes, they’d be playing before a half-empty stadium and have a lot of pissed-off fans who couldn’t make it.

Plus, there’s no way Fox agrees to start the game at 5 or 6 pm Eastern time.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

8:05 PM Eastern Starts

It wouldn’t have mattered last night, but I would like the World Series games to be scheduled to start at 8:05 PM eastern, so they would end a little earlier. The games would cover all of the prime time hours in the eastern and central time zones.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 28, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also Wouldn't That

keep people from watching another network’s half-hour show in the 8:00 PM eastern/7:00 PM central time slot.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 28, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

$$$$$

Like it or not Fox pays big dollars to MLB. in recent years they’ve taken a bath with world series sweeps and what not. Networks pay the money so they get the control.

by dmlichte on Oct 28, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is gonna give the game tonight, if they have one,

a TON of hype. Like they say about bad press in politics, it’s still good press.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its kind of like those snowed out games...

People make a big deal out of it, but how often does this happen? This was the first suspended game in the history of the World Series. My point was more in general, the regular season games start at 7EDT, so why change in the playoffs? That way, even a marathon 4 hr game would still end at a reasonable hour.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 28, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree 100%

Bud Selig avoided a major disaster. He did. You may criticize him for what he did but it is only a fraction of the criticism that he and MLB would be getting had the game ended in any other way possible. Basically two things could have happened. Option a.) would be for them to call a rain delay after 4.5 innings, wait 2 hours with the Phillies leading 2-1 and then ultimately call the game. A World Series ending because or a rain delay with the winning team clinging to a one run lead? That would have been one of the biggest disasters in the sport in the last 30 years. Option b.) would be the teams waiting out a rain delay until all hours and Selig suspending the rules. Selig could not have allowed the game to be called after 4.5 and thus the Phillies awarded the clinching game of the World Series.

Look, the rules are stupid (not the suspended game rules which are fairly well known). The rule that the game is official after 4.5 or 5 innings is totally stupid. Regular season its stupid. Post season its absolutely horrific. MLB needs to get in there and change these rules and say that no post season game can ever be ended by a rain delay and must be completed, no matter what the score. But that wasn’t an option. Selig lucked out that the game was tied after 5 innings but make no mistake, MLB avoided a major disaster.

by dmlichte on Oct 28, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Better yet...

… let them be proactive and postpone games that are due to be played in weather like that before they even start.

Selig claims they had optimistic weather forecasts. Anyone with a television watching the Weather Channel could have told them otherwise.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The game was not tied after 5

That is my point precisely. The score was 2-1, phillies after 5. The game should have been suspended right then. Why did MLB allow the 6th inning to start?

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 28, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB rules...

… would have been questionable at best to suspend the game at that time. It wasn’t that late and a true interpretation of the rules would have said that the game needed to be called, in favor the the Phillies… end of game, end of series. Selig, it looks like, would have simply suspended the rules and who knows what kind of firestorm would have ensued had he done that then seen the Rays come back to win the series.

by dmlichte on Oct 28, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rules need to be changed, IMO...

… to allow for a suspension of ANY game for weather, even if only one pitch has been thrown.

But more importantly, common sense should have been used last night to not even start.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I put this in the game comments...so I will repost it here.

Bud’s Presser

1)The guy looks old…like nursing home old, tapioca pudding old. On top of that, he is a terrible public speaker and appeared to have a grumpy disposition through the whole thing. I am now convinced that he is a puppet ruler and that the owners are really running baseball. From appearance alone, I would not want this guy being the face of my company.

2)There was no real reason for him to have the umpires in the presser other than to take some of the heat off of him. His body language was as such since several times he looked at them when explaining the situation. Several times he had the appearance of trying to deflect attention off of him and put it on the umpires, the weather, etc.

3)I agree with his decision that he was not going to call the game even if the Phils were winning when the delay started. I don’t think that the Phillies wanted to win a WS that way. However, if you play devil’s adovacate, the potential does exist in the regular season for a called game to affect the post season (i.e. a team misses playoffs by one game, home field advantage by one game, division by one game but wins the wildcard, etc). So, I guess the luxury of having off days and no other teams involved but those playing allows one to bend the rules.

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 28, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As to point 3

The NFL allows ties in the regular season, which can affect the standings, but for obvious reasons, does not allow ties in the playoffs.

Nothing wrong with different rules in the playoffs.

Games are called for many reasons in the regular season - travel, whether the game affects the standings, whether a double-header can be easily scheduled, etc…

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The NFL is slightly different though in that

the games that can be considered tied are at least played to full regulation and one OT period. The baseball games are not even played to full regulation before they are called.

FYI…The NFL rarely has a tie whereas this condition happens in MLB at least once a season. If this happened more often in the NFL, I suspect that the OT rules would change.

I agree that the games are called for many reason in the regular season and noted as such, however the rules that he was playing the WS under were not known to the teams and are not in concert with the rule book. If he wants to change the rules, which he should, then he needs to do that in the offseason and at the very least notified the teams of this position since he said he made this decision prior to the start of game 3.

Lets put it this way…if this was the rule he was playing under, why did he not call the game prior to the start of the 6th inning. Alot can be said that, the phillies are at a distinct disadvantage now since the Rays get to play the bottom of the 6th in ideal conditions where the Phils did not get a chance to in the top of it. Who knows whether Hamels gives up that hit to Pena if he is able to throw his best pitches…he has stated that he was throwing mostly fastballs since he could not get a good grip for the changeup. Who knows if Rollins is able to get Upton if he fields the ball cleanly…

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 28, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely...

He should have made his intentions more clear. Frankly, I’m surprised baseball hasn’t had to deal with this before.

But you made a specific point about how a called game in the regular season can affect the postseason. My point was that is going to happen and it’s not worth worrying about.

Upton also stole second in those conditions, after Buck and McCarver said repeatedly that he wouldn’t be going. (Hee!) and scored from second in a rotten infield. The Rays had their own obstacles as well.

Under good conditions, Rollins might not have even attempted a throw and instead thrown to second to make sure Pena stayed at first.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rollins play on Upton

was with nobody on and two outs. He filled the ball up the middle and the ball slipped out of his glove/hand during the transfer. It would have been a close play and Upton probably beats it out but we will never know.

My point was based on his reason that a playoff game was too important to call. I agree with that. However, a called game in the regular season can have impact on the playoffs as well. In your NFL analogy, at least they play the full game and the OT before they call the game. The only time this should really becomes an issue with MLB is if the game is on a getaway day. If the game is on a non-getaway day, than the game can/should be made up the following day if possible.

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 28, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, we do know

Upton beats that throw out, especially if he is running on a dry track.

Period.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And on a dry field

that ball might make it to the outfield, eliminating Rollins getting to it entirely.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok...

… but the game was started. Nothing that can be done about that.

I’ve long hated the rain delay/suspension rules. In theory I’d never want to see a game ended after less than nine innings. In reality, though, its just an impossibility with the unbalanced schedule, etc. That being said, MLB should institute rules this offseason that require all games to be completed…

Imagine if it was the Cubs in last nights situation… leading 2-1 and then MLB allowing the game to continue, leading to a tie, with the Cubs on the precipice of ending their World Series title drought. We’d all be sitting here today talking about Bartman, goats, Durham, and the apocalypse.

by dmlichte on Oct 28, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All games don't need to be completed

I couldn’t care less if some Nationals-Pirates game in mid-September gets finished. It’s not worth the money it would cost to pay the parking attendants and beer vendors to finish that game.

Only postseason games are necessary.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

k...

… we agree. Frankly I was waiting for something like last night to happen to force MLB to change these stupid rules.

by dmlichte on Oct 28, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The biggest loser in this whole thing

Cole Hamels. The kid was rolling.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 9:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You are right

He would have been first pitcher in history with 5 post season wins where he was the starter in all 5 had he eeked out a W.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 28, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He could still be the winner if the Phils score

in the bottom of the inning when play resumes as he is still the pitcher of record.

And of course, if the Phils then hold the lead.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 28, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the weather

he still could get a Game 7 start on short rest, if the Phillies went that route.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cole Hamels has officially entered the league of top 5 pitchers in baseball

I love watching Hamels pitch. That changeup of his is insane and the kid pitches with ice-water in his veins.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 28, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alright let's hear your list

I won’t make you put them in order, but who are the top 5 pitchers in baseball.

I would go with Johan, Hamels, Halladay, Webb, and Sabathia.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question,

Are you listing your top 5 in the regular season or post season?

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 28, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

regular season

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 28, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO!!!!!

You’ve just RUINED COLE HAMELS’ CAREER!!!

Don’t you remember who else you said had ice water in his veins? NO?! Well then, let me remind you: DAVID AARDSMA. He’s now a mop-up guy for the Red Sox who didn’t even make the postseason roster.

Cole Hamels will get you for this!! He will get you!!

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 28, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bud Selig has been an abomination

I understand that the baseball owner’s love Selig. It’s a very tight fraternity with extreme rules of inclusion (sorry Mark Cuban) and protection fo self-interest. But if this World Series has shown anything it is that the major league baseball season has become insanely too long. Every spring we start the season living in fear of 30 degree temperatures and snow wiping out or making miserable games in a dozen cities. Every fall the season extends longer and longer to the point where the World Series doesn’t wrap up until around November 1st. That’s INSANE ! Shorten the damned regular season, play more twi-light doubleheaders to shave a few more days off the baseball calendar. And for the love of God stop reworking the rules of baseball in midstream to accomodate your TV rankings.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 28, 2008 10:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you mean day-night double headers

Twi-light double headers start in the late afternoon and have one gate.

The trouble with either one is agreement — owners won’t want to lose the gate receipts for a true double-header, but players hate the split ones.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 28, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My mistake on double header terminology...you're right

All I know is that games that count shouldn’t be played on April 1st or the final week of October. The weather conditions in Philadelphia are to be expected this time of year. The World Series needs to wrap up 10 days earlier than it does right now.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 28, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone hates day-night DH.

Players, broadcasters, team employees — all wind up at the ballpark for 12+ hours when there’s a day-night DH.

You’ll never see teams schedule these on a regular basis.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you on the calendar

Money is the biggest obstacle to change, of course, and let’s all face it — the league exists to make money.

I’d like to see the season start no sooner than the first full week in April and end by the last Sunday in September. Without double-headers, though, how does that get done?

I’d also like to see each round of the playoffs be 7 games with NO travel dates during the series. That would make for conditions more like the regular season, and give the teams with depth an advantage.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 28, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason the owners love Selig

is they have made a great deal of money during his time as Commissioner.

Baseball is a business and the bottom line rules.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 28, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The biggest farce is that he probably had nothing to do with it

I would say the growth of the Internet, Satellite TV, Fantasy baseball, steriods, exploding economy, new/smaller ballparks, programs such as RBI etc all contributed to the growth of MLB baseball moreso than Bud. Not to mention that several unfortanate teams (BoSox, Pale Hose, and the Cubs to name a few) have experienced successes that the game has not seen in a long long time. Of all of these things, I would say the only thing he is responsible for is turning the other way during the steriod debacle.

The list is probably longer…but that is all that i could think of for the time being…

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 28, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't really "live in fear" about that kind of thing...

Just saying.

In the real world…

  • Shorten the regular season? The owners lose gate receipts and the players will not agree to a corresponding drop in salary. Not happening
  • More doubleheaders? Traditional ones cut into gate receipts. Twi-Night ones won’t make it past the union.
  • Fewer days off? The union wouldn’t allow it.

Here’s my solution:

Neutral Site World Series.

What are the two biggest sporting events in the U.S., in terms of ratings and ad dollars? The Super Bowl and the Final Four. Both played at neutral sites. I don’t see a lot of empty seats in the stands at those games either.

1) Put it in warm weather climes or domes. I’d prefer exclusively outdoor stadiums, but there is marketing merit to spreading the series around to as many parts of the country as possible.
2) Yes, quite a few fans won’t get to go, but NFL and NCAA basketball isn’t suffering as a result of this. Fans will deal.
3) DH/no DH rules can still apply. The league that wins the All-Star game gets four games with its rules. (I hate this system, but I’m saying Bud wouldn’t have to ram through another change at the same time)
4) This allows for the LDS to be 4 out of 7, because it won’t matter if games are played in November.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It helps the Super Bowl and Final Four

to be events that are either one game or a weekend-long (Saturday-Monday).

Getting enough fans to attend for a 10-day event (counting off days), and have sell-outs, unless the Cubs/Red Sox/Yankees were in the World Series, would be problematic.

The Super Bowl is helped that it has become a corporate event. The Final Four has much larger fan bases it can attract, and is helped with all of its corportate ties, too. But over 10 days, finding enough corporations to fill a stadium would be extremely difficult, IMO.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it would be a problem

The Super Bowl tickets are sold months in advance to corporations. The same thing would happen with the World Series.

Baseball stadiums are much smaller than football venues.

Quite a few people would make it out to the neutral cities. The Super Bowl announces their’s three years down the road, so people can make plans.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With a rotation

it would make it easier for people to make plans, for sure. But I think most fans use the summer for their main vacation – with school in session, it would be much tougher for the average fan to travel, which means you’d need 20,000+ tickets to get corporations to buy (and I’m not sure Fox has enough new shows to plug to buy all those).

Getting corporations to have their people stay in town for 10 days would be a headache, too.

I think that having a pre-determined site would help baseball form a ‘celebration of the season’-type atmosphere, which would be good, but I just don’t see it happening any time soon.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You wouldn't need them to stay all 10 days

Some would come in for Game 1 and 2. Others would do other games.

And besides that, why are 10 days necessary? If all the games are in one spot, you don’t need to travel. You can play 7 straight. (Which would also, incidentally, favor the team with the deeper pitching, so regular season greatness is rewarded a bit better)

The Super Bowl is in February and the Final Four is in April. Fans seem to make it to those games just fine.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course they make the other two

because they don’t have to use up as many off days. Fans can leave on a Friday or Saturday for the Super Bowl and be back in the office by Tuesday. That’s 2 off days. For the Final Four, it’s 2 or 3 off days.

I think 9-10 days would be wanted by the TV affiliate, so they could air some of the programs they were plugging, and to avoid days when they traditionally get worse ratings.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again...

They would not go to all the games!

Most fans now don’t go to all three or four of the games held in their city.

You’re hung up on 9-10 days. No one except for the media goes to all 7 games of a World Series now.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.

And I think you could get corporations and fans to go 1-2 games. But what happens for those corporations and fans who had tickets to unplayed games? Would they get their money back? What fans would plan a trip to see games 5-7 without the guarantee they would be played?

Well, I think TV would want 9 days (as they have now) to market their product. Fox or whomever doesn’t want to broadcast baseball every night, because the casual viewer won’t be there 7 straight nights. With days off, they can air ads during programming on their station and theoretically grab more casual viewers.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't fans plan to go to those games now? Are all of the game 5-7 tickets sold after

game 4? I don’t think so.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, but how many of those fans are coming from out of town?

I’d be curious to know that number.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They deal

Lots of Boston folks made plans to go to St. Louis for a lot longer than the two games it took the Red Sox to finish off the Cardinals. Oh well.

People buy tickets to games 5-7 on faith NOW. And some travel to do it.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, Boston fans.

Cubs fans would do the same. Yankees fans probably would.

But I don’t know you could make the same argument for Pirates fans, or Astros fans.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you undersetimate the fans of teams who rarely make the playoffs. If the

Pirates were lucky enough to make the playoff, don’t you think a bunch of Bucs fans would come out of the woodwork to see them in the post season? I think they would. In fact, you may get a better following from teams that rarely make it to the playoffs.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I do

Once I typed Pirates, I realized they would come out of the woodwork to see their team play.

So, in place of Pirates, let’s put Marlins. Or Rays. Do you think they have a big enough following to travel to Phoenix if they made the World Series?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good question. I think you

may be surprised at how many fans would travel to see their team in a playoff game.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious about it

I know I would travel (and I assume you would, too), but I think Cubs fans, in general, have a much broader fan base, helping them fill almost any stadium.

I wouldn’t want to be MLB and trying to convince Nationals fans to fly to Houston/Phoenix/LA for the World Series.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you would have more trouble convinving the National fans that

the team is really in the playoffs and you weren’t trying to feed them a line of bullshit!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

very true.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My reasons why I don't think this would work

1)WS could stretch into the Week. Superbowl and Final Four for the most part are wrapped up by the end of the weekend or the very beginning of the week.

2)A neutral football site and basketball site is different than a neutral baseball site. Dimensions for football and basketball are uniformed. Baseball stadiums do not have uniformed dimensions. The detracts from rewarding a team say the Padres who play in a pitchers park but have to play their “home” WS games in a hitters park such as Minute Maid for example.

3)MLB would have to build up the WS like The Event juggernaut that the Superbowl and the Final Four are. Some of the things that make the Superbowl and Final Four great are the events leading up to it which are things that MLB does not currently do and I am not sure that they can do.

4)Given the time of the year, I don’t see the demand being as high given the relatively closeness to the Holidays and the end of the Fiscal Year. I could see corporations staying away from unneeded expenditures in the fourth quarter to shore up their yearly earnings expectations.

5)The Superbowl has always been done this way so nobody knows anything different. I think that stat heads and purists would call into question the validity of the neutral site venue WS champions when we have a 100 years plus of history saying that the other way works.

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 28, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your arguments haven't convinced me that the idea isn't at least interesting.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point by Point

1) The Super Bowl is a two-week long extravaganza now. And again, not everyone has to go to every single one of the seven games.

2) Where is it written in the Constitution that teams like the Padres have to be rewarded? You play the games where you are told to play and you shut up.

3) MLB can learn. They aren’t that stupid.

4) They manage to do the Super Bowl and that is traditionally the slowest time of the year for a lot of corporations.

5) F—-k purists and stat heads. Any sport that listens to its purists deserves to die. Selig has made money by NOT listening to them

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 28, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The arguments against this sound like Bud's reasoning for not rewarding

home field to the team with the best record. The last time I checked, travel plans can be made and chaged less than a year in advance. The travel plan argument falls down when you mention that some teams don’t know if they will even be in the playoffs until the last game of the season.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For Once I Agree With You On Something

I floated around the idea of a neutral-site World Series a couple months ago, during one of the debates over the better ways to determine HFA in the WS other than the outcome of the ASG. And I consider myself quite the purist and stat-head.

"The object of a ball game for the fan is not to be entertained. It is to win." - Max Lapides

by CaliCub on Oct 28, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BREAKING: Game 5 postponed to Wednesday

MLB on XM just came through with the news.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 12:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

and here's the link

MLB Press Release

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This poses some interesting questions/scenarios

1)Will they get an offday on Thursday if they play on Wednesday.

2)If they can’t play the game till Thursday or later or they get an offday on Thursday, this pushes Games 6/7 in such a way that Hamels could pitch on normal rest in a game 7 if necessary. Likewise, it also allows the Phils to use Blanton in Game 6 over Myers/Moyer if they want to. Any pitching advantage that the Rays might have had in Games 6/7 could be neutralized by this delay.

3)Would Wednesday or Thursday be a throw day for Hamels and would they consider using him for a couple of innings.
  

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 28, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's my understanding on the schedule:

No off day, no matter when they play game 5, they wll play game 6 the day after game 5 is completed. Game 7 will then be the next day.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 28, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Evidently...

… they intend to skip the off day and play Thursday and Friday in Tampa if it comes to that.

This is the smartest move they could make given the weather conditions — postpone it several hours ahead of time instead of making everyone come to the park and wait.

It gives the Rays an opportunity. They could put Garza or Shields out there for three innings; Kazmir would start game 6 and then you could still have whoever DOESN’T go (Garza or Shields) throw game 7.

Of course, the Phillies could do the same.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or they could throw Price for 3 innings tomorrow

and have Garza & Shields rested for Games 6 and 7, with Kazmir & Sonnanstine in relief.

Sonnanstine could throw tomorrow on two days’ rest (it’d be his bullpen day), too.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Either way...

… I’d think they could do a NON-traditional type of relief appearance. The Phillies don’t have quite as many options.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely

The situation seems to call for a true ‘long-man’ whether that’s Price, Garza, Shields or Sonnanstine.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, this is where I think Lou Piniella would get outmanaged.

If he were in an identical situation — having, say, three starters to choose from to come in to the resumption of a suspended game — I think he probably sends Bob Howry out there.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I shudder to think about that.

I think it depends on the situation – if the Cubs were the home team (like the Phillies), I could see them taking an inning-by-inning approach. On the road, with 4 innings to pitch, I could see Marshall starting for the Cubs.

Unfortunately, Lou might play for Games 6 and 7, leaving prospective pitchers off the list.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm starting to get nervous, Al. Lou is starting to sound like Dusty from the playoffs in '03. Jack

McKeon made him look like a rookie league manager and I’m trying to disassociate those thoughts in regards to Lou’s managing.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I assume that lineups have to remain the same

or run the risk of shortening your bench…and the bottom of the 6th inning starts off in the same part of the phils batting order.

I watched the white sox/orioles game that was suspended this year and I don’t remember any discussions on the lineup…

"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban

by TheRiot Police on Oct 28, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A resumed game always picks up from the point it was stoppped and lineups are as

if the game was at the same point. Any player that was removed cannot re-enter the game. The only oddity is players that weren’t on the roster at the time of the original game. This is not an issue now because the rosters are set at the start of the series, but injury replacements are eligible to play. This can be a big deal during the season if players are traded or acquired between the suspension and the resumption.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And for official scoring purposes

the concluded game is recorded as having been played on the original date.

This year, the Sox-Orioles game had Griffey in the box score on April 28 (box), despite his playing for Cincinnati that day and him not joining the Sox until Aug. 1.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW...

… because of that rule, Barry Bonds made his “official” ML debut while he was still in the minor leagues. He was recalled on May 30, 1986 and made his debut vs. the Dodgers.

However, on August 11 he played in the completion of a game at Wrigley Field that had been suspended on April 20 — when he was still in the minors. Bonds came into the game in the 17th inning and got a hit, which technically is his first major league hit. The hit drove in what turned out to be the winning run for the Pirates.

Boxscore

Under suspended game rules, anyone eligible for the roster when the game is completed, can play in the game even if he wasn’t on the team when it was originally suspended. Thus it is theoretically possible for someone to play for both teams in the same game (if he’s traded between the teams during the time before the completion of a suspended game).

Fun, huh?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 28, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here is the schedule

Wednesday -—— finish Game 5

Thursday -——- Game 6 in Tampa (if nec)

Friday -———- Game 7 in Tampa (if nec)

I think if it goes to game 7, the Rays can expect to see Hamels on 3 days rest. He didn’t throw too many pitches yesterday and had a couple of low stress innings. I expect him on top of his game Friday

by MrShowtime on Oct 28, 2008 1:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Talk about being screwed by the Rain Delay

I had a dime on the Ray ML and a dime on the Rays RL. The RL bet was refunded, but my ML bet was graded as a loss due to the last completed inning was the 5th. Brutal.

Thats how it goes sometimes

by MrShowtime on Oct 28, 2008 1:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

an interesting sportsbook note

I agree that the game should be decided on the field over nine innings but does this come from changing the rules or making a joke of a particular game.

One sportsbook paid off as if Philadelphia had won. Their rules are the game must go at least five and, if less, the team that leads after the last full inning of play is the winner.

WhistlerWilliams

by WhistlerWilliams on Oct 28, 2008 1:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

first time ever

There is a line on the suspended game. If I take Tampa, will I be the first person ever to win straight (no points) bets on different teams in the same game – if Tampa wins.

WhistlerWilliams

by WhistlerWilliams on Oct 28, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A great comment from Bud Selig
“I can’t tell you tonight when we’ll resume,” Selig said Monday night when the suspension was announced. “We’ll stay here if we have to celebrate Thanksgiving here.”

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Oct 28, 2008 2:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty surprised...

Noone has suggested moving the game to Milwaukee. After all, that’s what Bud usually does!

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 28, 2008 2:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

YES!

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 28, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see you still have that picture of Andy McPhail and Ed Lynch.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 28, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And they were talking about the 1999 roster

Lance Johnson, Gary Gaetti . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 28, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and the potential

of that Chad Meyers, Jose Hernandez, Cole Liniak infield.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 28, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's face it. Al is right, this game should never have been started...

It was an absolute farce that it did, then was allowed to go on until the 6th inning. It should have been suspended at least 2 innings earlier. Phillies fans have been screwed by Bud & MLB. There was absolutely no precedent that would allow the game to continue until there was a tie. Either the game should have never been started, or it should have been suspended after 4 innings, or it should have been called on account of the weather, as soon as it got through the bottom of the 5th, (thereby making it a complete game technically). The last option would suck for the Rays, but those are the rules – (there isn’t a rule that states that WS games have to be full 9 innings) – it’s the same as regular season, if it gets through 5 complete- it’s in the books.

This all goes back to Bud kowtowing to the almighty dollar, and squeezing every last dime out of the ML product & brand. Bud Selig has set the league back with his questionable decisions, all seemingly predicated on the money that MLB rakes in, or conversely, doesn’t bring in. Save baseball now, fire Bud Selig.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 28, 2008 6:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, the Phillies now know the wonders of Bud

The first thing that ran through my mind after the game was delayed was just piercing empathy for every Phillies fan in that park, and I don’t even particularly like them. Just imagining the yawning emptiness of being at your park cheering on your team to a World Series championship one moment, and left cold, wet, and befuddled the next, without closure…just bleh. I think the “Oops Moment” has become Selig’s signature move, like Jordan’s fadeaway. No one can stop him, you can only hope to contain him.

"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." ~Arthur C. Clarke

by Goodie1969 on Oct 28, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't really fault Bud that much.

After all, he isn’t responsible for the weather. The real mistake he made was in allowing Fox to push the series so late in October — but that happened months ago.

IMO, they should have stopped the game after 4 innings, which would have nullified the game entirely. The reason that they didn’t was because of tonight’s forecast. They thought they had a better chance of finishing last night than they did of playing tonight. It turns out that they were correct about not playing tonight.

I am happy about three things:
1. He did not intend to have the Phils “clinch” while sitting in the clubhouse.
2. He did call the game before someone got hurt.
3. He didn’t decide to move game 5 to Miller Park.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 28, 2008 7:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The 1975 World Series was delayed several days...

… while they had a storm like this in Boston. The game that was played immediately after the rain passed was the famous game 6.

They should have never started. So what, they delay the WS by two days.

Oddly, the controversy created by what they’ve done here may result in higher ratings tonight.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 29, 2008 4:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cliff Floyd agrees with you, Al.

Check out this nice Q&A-style summary of the sitchiation by Gordon Edes at Yahoo! Sports. I’ll post this as a Fanshot, too.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 29, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rumor has it regarding tonights game

That King Selig might try out a few new rules. The game tonight might be played with 4 outs per inning rather than three. Should be interesting to see what he comes up with tonight!!

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 29, 2008 10:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I heard that they were going to have everyove run the basis clockwise tonight.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 29, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that how they play baseball in Europe?

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 29, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Australia.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crikey! Just like their toilet bowls.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 29, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd pay 100 quid

To see some baseball over here. College level or higher. As long as theres a proper diamond, a seventh inning stretch, peanuts, hot dogs, and beer.

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nah. I'll stick with regular peanuts.

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 30, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All of you saying, "Bud is bending to money!"

OF COURSE HE IS!

People LIKE money. I don’t see players forming a line to take salary cuts so baseball can get a TV contract better for the game. I don’t see owners doing the same with their bottom line.

Players like getting paid. Owners like making money. No one cares about you. Grow up and deal with it. No one cares about your tradition or your stats or your love of rules.

You… don’t… matter. I don’t matter. NO FAN MATTERS! Accept it and enjoy the game.

It IS a good idea to say all postseason games, or at least all World Series games, must go nine. The execution was sloppy, but the idea was sound.

Stop whining about the rules. The rules were stupid.

And yes, it was done to make money. So what? Money is good. We like money. With money, you can buy things like Nutter Butters and porn. Most of us would give three centimeters off our taints to make the kind of money baseball owners make.

And if we did, we’d probably want MORE of it.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No one cares about fans?

They had better start caring if they want their product, (MLB), to continue to grow & flourish. Thanks for the economics lesson, of course, people like money & want more of it. What we’re talking about is bending the game to accommodate TV & thereby to ensure continued revenue flow; (i.e. future TV contracts).

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 29, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In other words

Bending the game to MAKE MORE MONEY!!!!

(See above post about how people like money)

I rest your case.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 29, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sowwy

Did I break your wittle bubble? Did you honestly bewieve that baseball gave a hairy rat’s ass about you?

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 29, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your Arguments Might Be Stronger

if you avoided comments like “Grow up and deal with it” or “shut up” (in your other posts) and the condescension of the above comment. I assume you want to convince others to consider your point, as opposed to just telling people off and having them tune you out. So a bit of decorum wouldn’t hurt.

You have a thorough knowledge of the history of the game and you adequately give voice to its economic mindset. They’ve certainly added flavor to many discussions. And I don’t think the edginess of your opinions would be dulled if you eased off on the confrontational tone. You can still “tell it like it is” and “use your inside voice” at the same time.

It isn’t the truth that hurts so much as the unnecessary belligerence…which is actually more self-defeating than it is hurtful. You’re undermining yourself.

"The object of a ball game for the fan is not to be entertained. It is to win." - Max Lapides

by CaliCub on Oct 29, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find myself...

Going the other way harshly when confronted with the hearts and flowers and rainbows of how great baseball used to be before “money ruined it”

Perhaps I go too far. It is a button of mine that is easily pressed.

I will watch it.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 29, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's fine for you to have your opinions...

You do need to understand the difference between decrying a questionable decision, and lamenting it’s effects. I never gave a hearts and flowers scenario where baseball used to be so great. How you extrapolated to making me out to be a little crybaby is classic defensive posturing. Do me a favor? Don’t respond to my comments unless you have something intelligent to say. Maybe you sit back and take everything in stride. That’s fine. Don’t expect everyone to approach life and it’s intricacies in the same manner, some of us are not so single minded…

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 29, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah...

I must, upon further consideration, refuse your generous offer.

And for the record, EVERYTHING I say is intelligent.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 29, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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