Lou Piniella's mistake

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 3, 2008 10:42 AM CDT Comment 19 comments

Lou lost this series over the past 10 days. I hate to say it because I think Lou is brilliant but he made a critical mistake. Instead of getting this team to build momentum he took his foot off the pedal. Once we clinched Lou began resting everyone and playing the B guys against Mets and Brewers. He should have been looking to bury those guys and win both series. We split with the Mets and lost series to the Brewers, that made us 4 wins, 3 losses, 2 splits in series down the stretch. If you go out and win the brewers and Mets series we would have had 6 wins, 2 losses, 1 split. That is momentum, 4-3 and 2 is not...that is mediocre. The Dodgers on the other hand were 7 and 2 down the stretch. That equals confidence.

A side note: If we had buried the Brewers, there is a chance we would have played the Mets rather than the Dodgers. I know we have played as poorly as possible, however there is no doubt that the Cubs match up far better vs. the Mets than the Dodgers. That my friends would have been strategic thinking. Everyone says that Lou manages two moves ahead. Not this time. Critical, year ending decision.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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nah

the players mailed it in

by Cubinator on Oct 3, 2008 10:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

however, as the leader of the team you need to give your team every opportunity to succeed. These guys were coasting. In baseball it is extremely hard to just flip a switch.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 3, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree...

…some level of rest is valuable towards the end of the year and the starters should have been able to come out fresh for this series. Most of them played enouph to stay sharp, yet they got a chance to rest as well.

This is 100% on the players for the first two games and not the umpires, Fukudome, PIniella, the crowd, Dick Stockton or anybody else. The PLAYERS have failed miserably.

Now, they have a chance to “bone up” get pissed and show what they are made of, but I am afraid that was for last night and now this is beyond their means to repair.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 3, 2008 11:02 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd

Although I do blame Frank TV for making the overall experience even more miserable.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 3, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

between Frank TV and the local political commercials and the game itself, I was about ready to lay in front of the tv and pull the cord toward me so it landed on my head. Although, of the three the Cubs gave me the mildest sickness.

by jbertram on Oct 3, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

SOME level of rest, yes.

But I think Lou overdid it. The regular lineup (save DeRosa, who was hurt) should have played the entire Brewer series.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 3, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't buy...

…that giving them some rest has caused them to perform as badly as they have. If they are that fragile, its not a good thing.

The playoffs should be what you yearn for the entire year and there is no excuse for a pitcher walking 7 guys and the defensive blunders last night other than pure player failure. Dempster had enouph work and the infielders certainly should not be booting routine ground balls because they didn’t play every inning of the Brewers series.

The other thing is this, if Piniella would have played these guys the fulltime against the Brewers and they stunk it up like they did, everyone would have been yelling that Lou didn’t give them enouph rest. Veterans like they have, should be able to get themselves ready and be at the top of their game when it matters most.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 3, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+ 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

to this post. Lou played the B team the last week when anyone logical knew that the proper strategy was to at least TRY to win in Milwaukee and help out the Mets who would be a much more favorable matchup. A huge Lou blunder that is now biting him in the ass

by plenz on Oct 3, 2008 11:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

To those who disagree

I am not denying the players have cost us thus far. However, baseball is an odds game. The more the odds are in your favor, the higher the chance to win. Simple. For the Cubs players, these two losses have been mental. What I am saying is that if you won both of those series, your mental psyche is reinforced. Both the Mets and Brewers were playing tight and looked like sh%$. I have very little doubt that if Lou played all out to win both of those series, we would have. I am pretty certain that would be “Cubbie Swagger”. Laying down and resting and walking into game one was not a swagger.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 3, 2008 11:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ask the 2005 White Sox...

… about momentum. They had a poor last few weeks of the season and nearly blew a big lead.

You can say that you feel that the best way to go in is fighting to the end. Piniella felt that there were key players on his team who needed some rest. I agree with Lou. All you have to do is take a look at the September stats of the Cubs batters. With the exception of Aramis Ramirez, the numbers are staggering. They are far below their season averages. Theriot, Lee, Soto, DeRosa and Soriano (to a lesser extent) did not perform in September. Lou felt that the best thing to do was give them a rest, not continue to tire them out.

Sept OPS / Season OPS
Soriano .847 / .876
Theriot .676 / .745
Lee .785 / .823
Ramirez .951 / .898
Soto .778 / .868
DeRosa .747 / .857
Johnson .592 / .778
Fukudome .577 / .738

So please look at some stats before making baseless conclusions.

by dmlichte on Oct 3, 2008 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

baseless conclusions?

When I look at those stats I have the following thoughts: our team does not have momentum going into the playoffs. Our winning percentage toward the end of the year had diminished. Mostly because of our September start. We were then starting to heat up. If you disect those stats you posted, my guess is that you would see that the Sept. stats were worse in the beginning of the month than at the end. We started to build momentum in the middle of the month by going on a nice little tear. Lou then took the foot off the pedal. End of story. He played the Iowa Cubs for half the games and we entered the playoffs with no momentum. Momentum in baseball is almost everything.

by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 3, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

then disect the stats

Or are you merely guessing? The Cubs were tired the last month of the season and Lou did what teams do that clinch early, they rest players so their bats are not sluggish and they can nurse injuries.

The Sox had no momentum going into the 2005 playoffs. Seems like they had no problems once the playoff games started.

by dmlichte on Oct 3, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is no reason...

…this team should not have been able to perform when the playoffs started, absolutely none. Its not like the starters where on the bench for 4-5 days collecting rust, they all got plenty of playing time the last week.

There have been a lot of teams in similar circumstance (that rested their players a bit) that flourished in the playoffs. This excuse is not any better than blaming the fans or the umpire during game one.

THE PLAYERS HAVE FAILED!!!!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 3, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the players have failed- agreed

but so has the manager.

How do you not have ANYONE warming in the pen after a starter has walked 6 guys and is over 100 pitches in the 5th inning? Why did the 7th BB make a difference? At that point warming guys up two batters too late led to us losing the lead in Game 1, and anyone who has seen how these Cubs have handled the weight of our city on their shoulders should know we needed to be front-runners this series. The Cubs have fallen apart since that grand slam and THAT was on the manager as well as the pitcher. The manager wasn’t putting his players in the best position to succeed in that moment

He has also failed by starting Fukudome. In the 2nd half this year he only started 43 of 71 games and in September he wasn’t starting HALF the time. Why now? Why are we playing him now when he clearly wasn’t worth playing in all of September until the division was wrapped up?

What Pineilla did all year was manage each game as if it were our last until the division was wrapped up. Some of us hated parts of this strategy (overuse of bullpen parts, etc) because it might lead to a worn out roster come October. But the team got its rest at the end of the season and now Pineilla has stopped managing like every game is our last. What the hell happened????

Ultimately, the players playing as tight as they have are responsible for this mess, but to completely ignore Pineilla’s responsibility in this is RIDICULOUS, when these same people are giving CREDIT to Pineilla all season long.

You can’t give him credit during the season for all the wins and give no blame for these losses, its ridiculous

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 3, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fukudome...

…is the least of the team’s failures in games 1 and 2, but I will grant you not warming a a pitcher when Dempster couldn’t throw strikes.

It’s debatable whether he should have yanked him after walk six, but I do believe a lot of managers would have tried to see if he could get out of that inning. We will never know what Marshall could have done, but Dempster did get out of a similar jam before and he did have pretty good stuff. It’s a tough call, but if Dempster performs at all near his regular season form, this is a none issue.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 3, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Enough blaming Lou

Other than starting Fukudome, I place the blame on the players.

If he had played the players the whole week and they played this bad there would be people saying he messed up by not resting them. He can’t win in that situation. He did a good job in giving each some playing time and some rest.

I also think starting the Cubs most consistent pitcher in game 1 was a good move. I felt comfortable going into that game with Dempster. It wasn’t Lou who gave the Dodgers 5 outs in an inning.

This is the player’s fault not Piniella’s.

by rlpete on Oct 3, 2008 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree

The last week of the regular season and how it was played has not “caused” the Cubs to lose these two play-off games. Most of us saw those games and know the specifics that resulted in Cub losses. Rather, the significance of those last seven games against the Mets and Brewers lies in the postseason table setting that took place while, at best, the value of resting the starting pitchers and noninjured roster regulars is unproven. When you don’t know the consequences, the best policy is to try to win every game you can.

I still hold-out some shreds of hope that the Cubs will win tomorrow. It’s gotten to the point where I wouldn’t bet on it though. This is a team that scored alot of runs during the regular season. There is a chance they might win a game and extend postseason for the fans.

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 3, 2008 2:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs