Ken Macha to be named Brewers Manager
As reported just moments ago on ESPN SportsCenter, Ken Macha is expected to be named the New Brewers manager.
Macha of course was the manager of the Oakland A's and lead them to the playoffs a few years back. Macha has a career record of 368-280 in 4 Season as an MLB manager most recently posting a 93-69 record With the 2006 A's
Macha was most recently a broadcaster and it was believed that the Cubs broadcaster Bob Brenly was on the short list for the Brewers manager spot.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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110 comments
Comments
boo ya
brenly was holding the booth together imo. i did not enjoy len as much this year as i have in years past.
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Oct 30, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a suprise...
Brewers made their decision several days ago and were waiting for the World Series to conclude. By all indications Ken Macha is a high quality choice for them. Good teacher, good strategist, good game manager. It will be interesting to see if he shuffles some guys around in that lineup. Rickie Weeks needs to get off of 2nd base. Also, I wonder if they trade Prince Fielder for a starting pitcher and put Ryan Braun at 1st base for the next 15 years.
"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)
by MDBNIU on Oct 30, 2008 10:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I guess it’s a net neutral in my mind. For one, I’m glad that Bob’s staying in the booth, I think he adds a tremendous amount to the games but I guess because of that I hoped he’d get a fair shake and another shot at managing. It seems like he still wants to and I would gather that it’ll happen sooner rather than later. I could just as easily forsee an opening next year or the one after that might entice him away.
All that said, even with the questions about CC, Sheets, Gallardo, Fielder, etc. That Brewers team was about the best opening of a contending team to come along since, well, Piniella and the Cubs.
by CubFan81 on Oct 30, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone will do a better job with Milwaukee than Ned Yost did.
Macha’s a good manager. Now we’ll see if Doug Melvin gives him anything to work with.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brenly
Although Macha’s a good manager, I’m surprised the Brewers didn’t go with Brenly. He has a World Series title under his belt and knows the NL Central inside and out from having been in the Cubs booth the last 4 years. To get passed over in both Cinci and Milwaukee leads me to think he doesn’t interview well.
That being said, I’m glad BB will be back in the booth next season.
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970
by Zorb on Oct 30, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The "interview badly" thing is possible.
Keep in mind that while Brenly has a title, Macha had four straight winning seasons in which the lowest win total was 88. He got fired because of a personality conflict with Billy Beane, not because he wasn’t successful.
The Brewers made a good choice.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't know about the "interview badly" thing
Brenly has an affable personality, knows his stuff, has experience, and comes off smart. I’m inclined to believe the perks in his Tribune Co. contract outweighed those offered by Attanasio.
Macha will be a formidable foe. If the Brewers are able to put together a sensible starting rotation, watch out.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Oct 30, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trust Me
Brenly did not have a “bad interview”. You can take that to the bank.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That all depends, doesn't it...
… on what Doug Melvin wanted to hear in the interview? I’m guessing an interview for a managing spot is different from an interview for a TV announcing spot.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interviewing is a two way process
Much more likely, by about 10,000%, is that interviewing Brenly was merely a formality and that:
1) Macha was the guy all along, given that Melvin was all set to hire him in 2003, when Macha got the As job, and
2) Brenly wasn’t that keen on the job to begin with. I have followed Brenly’s career closely and he has convincingly stated numerous times that he is perfectly happy in the booth and does not particulary miss the pressures and second guessing that goes with managing.
While I don’t believe for one second that Bob gave a poor interview, I can easily envision that he was not overly enthusiastic about the job, especially given that he may have known Macha was the guy going in.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and...
… in that case, Doug Melvin probably didn’t ask him any penetrating questions.
I agree with you about Brenly’s statements regarding being happy in the booth.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that makes sense.
BB may have come in with a “Yeah, whatever. Maybe I’ll take the job, maybe I won’t” attitude, which might have turned off Melvin.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and....
if you guys are really interested in analyzing this to death, consider this: Like most baseball relationships, the one between Doug Melvin and Brenly has some history to it.
In 2003, the Diamondbacks decided (incorrectly) that the thing they needed most for success was a slugger. They targeted Richie Sexson, who was due to become a free agent in Milwaukee. Doug Melvin seized upon this opportunity and extracted his pound of flesh, making the signature trade of his career. In return for Sexson, he got 7 players from Arizona, 6 of whom were on the 25 man roster at the end of the 2003 season.
4 of the 5 infield postions for the Brewers on opening day 2004 were manned by ex-D’Backs.
The manager of the D’Backs was Bob Brenly. Don’t know if he signed off on the trade, but I do know that early in the 2004 season, Sexson went down for the year, and with the decimated roster the team went into a horrific losing spiral and Brenly lost his job.
You can rest assured that both Melvin and Brenly remember this clearly.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the interview went bad
when Bob compared Prince to Sexson…
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Oct 30, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Or suggested there might be a 7 for 1 deal out there for the Brewers to deal Prince.
A “pound of flesh” takes on new meaning…
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the pound of flesh off prince
makes me shudder.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Oct 30, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a pound of flesh off prince...
…wouldn’t make much of a difference.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
neither
would 100 for that matter
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 30, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he "interviewed badly"
he’s got a great gig going on WGN TV and he probably went in knowing that if the offer and perks weren’t better than what he has, no great loss.
I think Bob would have been a good manager for them, he has seen the NL from on the field and in the broadcaster’s booth and probably could help the Brewers. But, I am very happy he is still paired with Len.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Oct 30, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What may have happened...
…was Brenly knew he would only leave the Cubs gig if the Brewers job would allow him certain freedoms to run things the way he wanted, or he would take a pass.
When you interview for these gigs, they typically spend a lot of time getting the prospective managers opinion on the current talent level of the club, and how they would use it to maximize wins. Also, they discuss where they think the club is short and where they need to shore up to compete against the rest of the division.
It very will could be, that Brenly was brutally honest with his thoughts and it may have gone against the GM’s opinion. In these cases, it come sometimes hurt if the GM is hearing his team may not be as good as he thinks, from a guy he may be hiring.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 30, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a manger spot open in Seattle
I wonder if Brenly would get an interview there?
by Galvan316 on Oct 30, 2008 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would he want that job?
That franchise is a mess.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the right money
Everyone has a price, whether they can admit it to anyone else or not.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Oct 30, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seattle needs an Eric Wedge type
Somebody who can be good teacher and mentor with younger rebuilding pieces. Bob Brenly strikes me as being very much a veteran type manager in the mold of Dusty Baker. Plus it seems like Brenly has blown any chance of getting into managing. Two interviews, one in Cincy and now Milwaukee. Baseball doesn’t typically keep interviewing the usual suspects.
"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)
by MDBNIU on Oct 30, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take exception to that
14 of the current 29 managers have had previous managerial experience with another Major League team. So, it would appear that the usual suspects do keep getting brought back in for interviews.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Oct 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's only half, though.
I’d love to see a comparison to, say, 10 and 20 years ago, as to whether that ratio was the same back then.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll see what I can find
My point was that half the positions in baseball are filled with ‘re-treads;’ it’s not like the Majors are full of fresh blood.
It’s worse in the NL than the AL – 10 of the 16 NL jobs are guys on at least their second job, while the AL has 4 of 13.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Oct 31, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
…that I would agree that baseball doesn’t keep interviewing the same suspects, but I do think that when a retread has been up for multiple jobs and keeps not getting hired, there usually is a reason.
It is certainly true that there are more MLB managers that are in their first jobs now than in any time I can remember. But, a lot of those guys interviewed for multiple jobs before they got their 1st one.
What is even more amazing to me is how many first time GMs there are now. If there was ever a good ol’ boys network in baseball, it was at the executive level. But, there has been a revolution in MLB and the impact that Billy Beane, Terry Ryan, Theo Epstein and others have had is remarkable.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
It depends on how much he really wants to manger again. Your right it is a mess up there.
by Galvan316 on Oct 30, 2008 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he is in a good spot.
He has a great job with the Cubs, is well-respected, and is being considered for jobs. If he took a job like Seattle (where I have a hard time anyone could be successful) it could damage his reputation and put him out of any future consideration.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad BB will be back, too.
Plus, now he can enjoy the palatial surroundings of the newly renovated WGN podcast studios.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yuck
One of the many reasons I hate BB. Floppy hats, talks about DBacks, smug personality…..okay okay okay I’m done, I know I’m the only one on here that dislikes him.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Oct 30, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with floppy hats?
And if I won a World Series, I would probably start every sentence like him- “You know, back when I was busy winning a World Series…” Haha, I KEED! But seriously- no love for the floppy hats??
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I somewhat agree with you...
Each year Bob Brenly becomes progressively less tolerable and more arrogant. He was on top of his game as a broadcaster in the 90’s. He’s lost quite a bit on his fastball. Maybe it has to do with being paired with the anal retentive and babbling Len Kaspar. Or maybe Brenly is simply content it in these days.
"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)
by MDBNIU on Oct 30, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
''is simply content to phone it in these days."
"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)
by MDBNIU on Oct 30, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I take it you enjoy Len and Bob?
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he enjoys anything.
Besides maybe directing sand into other people’s bodily orifices.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pound, baby, pound...
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
apologize
in advance if this is offensive to anyone but your post make me sick more and more each day! I try hard not to read them and comment on them but its hard when your reading through a whole diary.
I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Oct 30, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Daver whispers) If you're lucky, he'll tell you to pound sand.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here, have this backhoe.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Oct 31, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y'know I must confess...
…I wasn’t even aware that he wore floppy hats. Can’t say that’s a gamechanger for me.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
He talks about the stupid floppy hat give-away day months in advance. It might have been funny the first time you brought it up, but c’mon guy give it a rest already!
No it’s not a gamebreaker for me, just a small example of one of the many thing’s that annoys me about BB.
With that being said I don’t want to get into another discussion of BB fans vs. non-BB fans. This is one of those topics in which no one is right or wrong and no one is going to convince the other side to change their views.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Oct 30, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm right in saying
that floppy hats are sweet.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care for the floppy hats.
But seriously, I don’t care if he mentions them or not.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, now that you mention it...
…I probably have heard him talk about the floppy hats. It must not have bothered me, though, because it didn’t stick in my memory. In any case, I still have no problem with floopy hats. I mean, c’mon, we all get older.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right right
Does it keep me up all night, no. I was just saying to me he’s an annoying guy and floppy hats was just one small example. Wow I didn’t know mentioning them would create so much discussion haha.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Oct 30, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Floppy hats are the Ryan Theriot of the headware world.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very Scrappy indeed.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Oct 30, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brenly
As time has passed, one of the things that has been forgotten is that he never had the reputation for being a great in game tactician. He got a lot of criticism and ultimately fired not long after he won a world series. I’m glad he’s likely going to remain a Cub broadcaster. He’s one of the best in the business at it. Moreover I’m glad we as Cub fans will (hopefully) be spared from Mark Grace.
If it were offered, though, the Seattle job is not a bad one. The Ms are a bit of a mess right now but they are a team that will spend money. They are in the top ten in MLB in payroll (they spent more than $40M more than the Brewers last year) and if they are doing well, they draw a ton of fans. Yes, they have work to do and some ugly contracts that expire in 2009 (Beltre and Washburn) and one Jason Marquis type of contract with Carlos Silva that extends through 2012. Beyond that, though, the team has a lot of flexibility. The M’s may not be as bad of a situation as may appear on the surface.
by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brenly as In game tactician
Dan, I respect your baseball knowledge, but you are way off base here. Brenly’s supposed weakness as an in game tactician never comes up because, no matter how many times you repeat it, it doesn’t make it fact.
Brenly did not get fired because he was a poor manager. The makeup of the team and the direction of the organization had totally changed between 2001 and 2004 (Brenly actually was let go three years after winning WS) and the team decided they needed to go in a different direction. Nobody in the organization felt that the debacle of 2004 (111 losses) was Brenly’s fault and believe me, there are a lot of people who to this day feel Brenly got the shaft.
The truth about Brenly is this: He tends to be a “gut feel” manager, who goes with the hot hand. In that respect, he is much like Piniella. He puts a lot of stock in match-ups…putting his players in a position where they have the best chance to succeed.
If you were to say that Brenly would be a better fit for a veteran ballclub as opposed to a very young one, such as the D-Backs were in 2004, that would be a decent point. But, it simply is not true that he does not handle in game well. His bench coach in AZ was Bob Melvin, and they made a pretty formidable team and out managed other teams on a regular basis. The way Brenly/Melvin out managed the highly respected Bobby Cox in the 2001 NLCS was a thing of beauty.
I agree with you about the Seattle job. Much like the D-Backs of 2004, 2008 was an ugly year in Seattle, but it is a quality organization and they will turn things around.
When Al says why would Brenly want to take over such a mess….well, you could say the same thing about Lou Piniella taking over the Cubs after the 2006 season.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't disagree with you...
…but will add this, the term – “out managed” is way over used in baseball. Its certainly true, that some guys are masters at getting the match ups they want, but even when that happens, it doesn’t mean the player is going to produce or it was the right match up for that particular day.
When players produce, they tend to make average managers look like a genious. On the other hand, poor player performance can make the best managers look like they have no clue. Again, I’m not saying that guys don’t get outmanged, because they do, but a large percentage of the time, the other team’s players simply outperformed yours.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 30, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could have ridden
Schilling and Johnson to the WS…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh really
Then how do you explain that in 3 out of the 4 years Schilling and Johnson played together in AZ, the team never got further than the NLDS? Especially considering that there were years where they were statistically better than they were in 2001?
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the postseason?
No way, dude. The only other year (2002) that they were in the postseason with AZ, Johnson got rocked in Game 1- 10 H and 6 ER in 6 IP…
If you don’t believe me, see for yourself
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think he meant that they were better statistically in the REGULAR season in years other than 2001.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh...
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Because as all of you here know, it is one thing to make the playoffs and a different thing to succeed in the playoffs. But, you can’t do anything in the playoffs if you don’t make them.
You can be the best team on paper, have two of the best starting pitchers in baseball on your staff…and still not win it all. That was the case for the D’Backs in 2000, 2002 and 2003. And then they blew it up. And that is why Bob Brenly is a Chicago Cubs broadcaster.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
In order to SUCCEED in the post season, you have to MAKE IT to the postseason. You implied that anyone could have won with Johnson and Schilling and 3 out of the 4 times they were on the same team, they did not win. So, your argument has been refuted. End of case.
The fact the RJ gave up 6 runs in Game One of the 2002 NLDS further refutes you contention that having those two pitchers on staff made winning a WS title a done deal. You have torpedoed your own assertion.
You clearly don’t have a clue, so I am done.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a clue.
And I definitely wasn’t implying that I would be able to be a succesful manager capable of winning World Series’ if I had those 2 guys on my team. It is also clear that having the greatest collection of super-star players does not always translate into success (Yankees).
What is true, though, is that once they were in the post-season in 2001, especially with being able to use those guys so often in the 5 and 7 game series’, if they were on their game, the D-Backs were pretty much unbeatable. Especially playing the World Series and not needing to worry about pitchers having to hit in the AL park.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if you had said that to begin with
I might have been more inclined to listen. Yes, having Johnson and Schilling made the D’Backs tough. Not unbeatable by any means, but certainly formidable. Don’t forget who the closer was on that team: Byun Young Kim. Ouch. And there is always a risk involved in riding your horses in the playoffs and pitching them on short rest. That time it worked out…many other times it has not.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha yeah.
Didn’t he give up consecutive game-winning HR’s to the Yankees in the 9th inning of the WS? Ohh, good times…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
No question what you say is true.
Having said that, some managers do have a knack of getting good performances out of players who have never performed to that level before or since. When that happens repeatedly with certain managers (Tony LaRussa?) at some point you have to remove luck or good fortune from the equation.
When it comes to one manager “out-managing” another in an individual game or series, yes, I think that can be over stated. What happens most times is that one manager’s moves happen to work that day, and the other’s didn’t. But, when it happens over the course of a season, or over an entire post season, there is usually a reason.
I often think back to when Joe Torre was managing the Braves. I used to watch their games a lot, because it was the early heyday of Superstation TBS. I thought he was the best manager I had ever seen. His career didn’t exactly take off, but I wasn’t the least surprised when he had that great run with the Yankees. Now people will say, aw, anybody could’ve won with that talent. Well, that is hard to prove, but the fact s Torre DID win, and despite what anybody says, he is a terrific manager.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talking about Torre...
…his record before he got to the Yankees just proves that how your team is assembled is the driving force behind winning. The other point is, when a manager has a solid GM, it also makes his job a lot easier – see Bobby Cox.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 30, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But, there are plenty of examples of good teams not winning and mediocre teams over performing, so the manager/coaching staff must have some effect.
That, plus the many examples of times when the same team had a step change in winning pct. when they changed manager in mid season and did not change players. See Florida with McKeon and Astros with Garner.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do have an effect...
…no question, they just need workable tools to get the job done, no matter how smart they are.
Of all sports, football is the one where coaching impacts the outcome of the game the most. How they put the game plan together and make adjustments on Sunday has a huge effect on the outcome.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 30, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Casey Stengel...
… another great example of a manager who was considered a clown and a buffoon when he managed the terrible Dodgers and Braves.
Then he got the Yankees job — to the surprise of many — and suddenly, he was a genius.
The reality is, he had better players.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
About the "mess" comment...
… it was clear even before the Cubs hired Piniella that they were going to clean up the mess. I doubt he’d have taken the job if they hadn’t said so.
There has been no such indication in Seattle. My guess is that they hire a young manager who can grow into the job in a low-pressure environment. Joey Cora would be a good fit, as suggested elsewhere.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More
I think the As are just as committed to winning in 2009 as the Cubs were to winning in 2007.
Not to belabor, but one could easily conclude that the mess the Cubs had in 2006 was worse than the one the Mariners have now. In 2006, the Cubs had just had their 2nd straight losing season and had been in a steady decline since 2003. The Mariners, OTOH, had an 88 win season just last year with most of the same players.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is puzzling...
… why the Mariners fell so far. I, personally, was quite surprised.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brenly
I was under the impression that his handling of pitchers from his Dback days was questioned, particularly his handling of the bullpen. A quick google search found a few articles, but frankly, who cares. Bottom line is that hopefully he remains with the Cubs as he provides excellent analysis. I don’t buy the idea that he was tepid in his desire to manage again, Brewers or not. Managers are managers for a reason, due to their competitive drive and we’ve seen time and time again former managers declare that they’re perfectly happy in their post managerial career, only to see them back in uniform soon down the road.
by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simple baseball 101
When a bullpen performs well, the manager is doing brilliant job managing them. When they aren’t the manager is an idiot.
Look at the D’Backs bullpen in 2001. Closer is Kim…a powder keg looking for a match. He is out of baseball now, I believe, even though he is still young. Mike Morgan was 72 years old and would retire after 2001. Matt Mantei was hurt all year. The rest of the bullpen was a collection of has beens and never weres who are all out of baseball…with the exception of Russ Springer who had an ERA north of 7 in 2001.
This just underlines how ludicrous the comment is that it was a fait accompli that the D’Backs would win in 2001. Yes, they had Johnson and Schilling, but the rest of the staff was held together with duct tape and bailing wire and the offense was, well, spotty.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't remember a postseason
where the manager’s use of the bullpen ISN’T questioned!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Oct 30, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on the first paragraph
+1 on the second as well.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Oct 30, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can name at least one manager whose reputation as an in-game tactician is worse than Brenly's: Charlie Manuel.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Oct 30, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty Baker.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 30, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a little bittersweet....
…a good Brewers team gets a very good manager and we keep a very good color broadcaster..
but I will take it for now..
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Oct 30, 2008 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
again..
… no one knows what the Brewers team next year will look like. If Sheets and Sabathia are gone then a rotation of Suppan, Gaillardo, Bush, Parra and co is a .500 type of rotation. Prince Fielder remains a question mark as to whether or not he’ll be traded, and if he is, Ryan Braun is going to understand how frustrated Barry Bonds was when he was constantly walked.
by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phew...
I’m glad for my own selfish reasons. I like BB and Len together. Plus, I would puke if Mark Grace was his replacement (my vote was for Sutcliffe).
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Oct 30, 2008 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad BB's more likely to be staying
now, perhaps he isn’t that great of an interview or even manager. I know the snakes won in 2001, but colleagues of mine in the desert that follow that team closely believe they would have won in that condition regardless of who was manager.
Regardless of what the Brewers criteria was, they chose Macha and from a Chicago TV standpoint, the Cubs will remain head and shoulders above anything broadcast from 9 miles south.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Oct 30, 2008 12:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Laughable
“I know the snakes won in 2001, but colleagues of mine in the desert that follow that team closely believe they would have won in that condition regardless of who was manager.”
This is hysterical. I live in AZ and know a lot of very knowledgeable baseball people and I have never heard this stated. The truth is, the 1999 AZ D’Backs team was better (won 100 games, MUCH better offense) and with Buck Showalter at the helm, never made it out of the NLDS (sound familiar?)
The 2001 D-Backs team struggled for a lot of the year, had a lot of injuries and had a highly dubious offense. They did have one of the great big game pitchers in Curt Schilling, but if you went back and checked, you would find very few, if any people who were picking the D-Backs to win it all in 2001.
Brenly’s leading that team to the WS title was an outstanding job, and will not diminish in attempts to re-write history.
BTW, nobody who has ever talked baseball for even two minutes with Bob Brenly will ever believe that he is “not a good interview”. That is too funny.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talking baseball with him...
… and a job interview… are two very different things, wouldn’t you agree?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'm not qualified to discuss Arizona Diamondbacks history...
…but , regarding your last sentence, I’d point out that there are couple different ways to “interview badly.” One is coming off as incompetent and lacking good judgement. The other is being perfectly competent for the job but not having the personality characteristics that management is looking for.
If Brenly did “interview badly,” I’m guessing it was the latter. Sure, he seems affable and easy going, but I can tell he has some pretty strong ideas about running a baseball team and some of those ideas might have been at odds with what the Brewers were looking for.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 30, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Since Brenly is neither lacking competence nor good judgement, we can eliminate that.
You are correct about Brenly having strong ideas about running a baseball team and it is entirely possible that they were not what the Brewers are looking for. For instance, Brenly believes in not having a lot of rules, except show up on time, be professional, and respect the game. He has relied a lot on team leaders in the past for policing.
Perhaps, with Fielder and some of the other "characters’ the Brewers have, they are looking for more discipline. I don’t know, but it is possible.
But, the overall point is, this does not add up to being a “bad interview”. Sometimes a person is just not a good fit, no matter how well they interview. What would you have Brenly do, be deceptive about his managing philosophy just to come off better in an interview? That wouldn’t be good for anybody.
Of course, this is all speculation. It could be, and I think likely, Macha was the man all along. And I’m pretty sure Brenly is okay with that and is not losing any sleep over it.
by azjazzman on Oct 30, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on a side note...
… Macha will very possibly be looking for a new pitching coach. Tom Hardricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has reported rumors that Mike Maddux may be bound for the Texas Rangers.
by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's too bad.
I’d love to see Mike Maddux headed to Chicago to replace Larry Rothschild.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 30, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see Greg Maddux
headed to Chicago to replace Larry Rothschild.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Oct 31, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see...
…anyone of about 15 pitching coaches come to Chicago to replace Rothschild.
Rothschild is here because Hendry wanted him here, plain and simple.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 31, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good thing
for the Cubs. Maddux is a very good pitching coach. Hope the Rangers pay him a lot.
by Clark Addison on Oct 30, 2008 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Worth noting
Macha signed a 2 year deal according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. I cannot imagine any circumstance where Brenly would take a deal any less than 3 years. Its very possible that the 2-year thing was a make-or-break for Melvin and upon hearing that, Brenly might have burst out laughing and asked Melvin if he were serious.
by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2008 3:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sveum stays, too
I know Melvin had mentioned that he would like Sveum to remain, but that could have been another sticking point in any negotiation.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Oct 30, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No matter what happened with Brenly, this is bad for the Cubs
Macha is a definite improvement over Yost and the Brewers aren’t that far behind the Cubs as it is.
by Mapmaker on Oct 30, 2008 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the brewers
are going to recoup the talent they are about to lose. Is their farm system that deep? Can Gallardo replace the production of CC or Sheets? Will they part with Hardy or Prince to recoup some of that talent? Will their returns on those trades and their replacements be enough to make up the talent lost from the 08 brewers. I think for as many questions marks as we think the cubs have…the brewers have even more. The cubs are looking to tweak…the brewers need some major components. They still don’t have a closer per say, they still have a question mark in Center with Cameron probably leaving, they still have rotation questions…I don’t fear the Brewers in 09 as much as I feared the brewers in 08….maybe I am being Naive.
The team I fear in the central is the Cardinals…If their rotation is healthy they have one of the best 1-2-3 combinations in Wainwright, Carp, and Lohse. They will probably flip one of their excess outfielders for Bullpen help and/or a MI bat. They have some money to spend with all of their expiring contracts even with the Lohse signing. They have a manager and a pitch coaching who is able to squeeze every lost drop of blood out of rotten turnip. Of course this fear is predicated on Carp being healthy, which is a shakey proposition but I would bet he is healthy in 09 over CC being a brewer in 09.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Oct 30, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I think the Reds could be an intriguing team.
They have quite a bit of young talent and who Jockety is pretty shrewd in putting a team together.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Oct 30, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree
Cincinnati Reds are a team that bears watching. Lots of good young talent, to include some dandy arms. Plus Walt Jocketty is running the show now and will get rid of the remaining dead weight.
"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)
by MDBNIU on Oct 30, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milwaukee is a formidable team
They are likely to make all out push to acquire a frontline starting pitcher this winter. They’ve got the young talent to swing a deal for Jake Peavy. Or they could make a blockbuster deal and ship Prince Fielder for pitching. Keep in mind also they have Yovani Gallardo who many people think will soon be ace-caliber. Ken Macha is a good baseball man and inherits a lot of talent in Milwaukee. Don’t underestimate the Brewers.
"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)
by MDBNIU on Oct 30, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anybody is going to do that
The Brewers should be good for a while. Macha is a good choice, and Doug Melvin is one of the best GMs in baseball.
All in all, I think this worked out well for the Brewers and for the Cubs. Brenly has done a nice job in his second go-round on the Chicago airwaves.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 31, 2008 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if they don't lose both aces
If the Brewers lose both CC and Sheets and don’t do something big to replace them then they will struggle to keep up with the Cubs. Gallardo and Suppan are not enough to carry the team and let’s not forget the still have a shaky pen also.
by Crazy Uncle Lou on Oct 31, 2008 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gee, thanks for the tip....
…but after two seasons of “fearing” the Brewers, only to see them stumble about at key points in the season, I’m taking next year off. Are they a good team? Certainly. But I’m not going to worry about them until I see whether and how they plug some of the holes in the roster.
I agree that, if Volquez can stay strong and Bailey and Cueto can take the next step, the Reds could make some noise. Then again, their offensive lineup probably won’t be particularly fearsome unless Votto and Bruce can progess as well. And, yeah, of course, the Cards are always a problem.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 31, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps you could try a year
being moderately wary of the Brewers? Going cold-turkey is difficult, you know…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Oct 31, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, "moderately wary" sounds good...
…or maybe “tentatively concerned.”
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 31, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"somewhat peturbed"
“mildly annoyed”
“partially peeved”
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Oct 31, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
macha
a very good choice for a team with limited spending like oakland.i dont think these guys will go away anytime soon
by NOMAR on Nov 1, 2008 6:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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