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2009 Cubs World Series Team

2009 Cubs World Series Team

I came up with this while drinking the blue kool aid. Lemme know what you think.

Let's begin with the Cub's two top priorities: a solid leadoff man and Lefty OFer.I propose 3 trades that would raise payroll by only $12 mil. fulfill team priorities and add allstar ace. ( $12 mil increase doesn't reflect signing FAs Wood and Demp.)

1. Trade Marquis, Gaudin, and B prospect to to Colorado for LHP Delarosa.

2. Trade Fontenot, Hill, Hoffpaur, and Hart plus $2mil. to Os for Brian Roberts.

3. Trade Derosa, Marshall, Pie, and Delarosa to SD for Peavy and Brian Giles.

In order for any trade to work it must be win/win.

*Trade 1. Cubs dump 11-9 4.53 Marquis $9 mil. The only way Colorado bites is by throwing in Gaudin 4.40 9-5 and a prospect.Col upgrades its staff by adding 2 solid arms for avg of 4.5 each. It's worth it considering they pay Francis (4-10 5.01) $3mil and Hernandez (6.05 13-11) $5mil.

*Trade 2.  Offers Os left handed young pitching in Hill, who still has potential greatness. Future replacement for aging Huff or Millar in Hoffpaur who is good and costs nothing. Replaces Roberts with Fontenot .305 9HR .395. Gives Angelo $2 mil to stop lusting over his players. Cuts Os payroll by $10 mil. and get hit or miss in Hart. Os are looking to rebuild and love stocking up on young pitching.

*Trade 3. Gives SD a potential allstar at second base, which is their weakest position, replacing the ineffective Antonelli. Dero gives them the luxury of a solid backup at 1st and 3rd, something they also lacked as a team. Pie's speed and D cover good ground in SD filling an OF position.  SD has no good SLHP the only starting lefty is LeBlanc 8.02 1-3. Now they get Marshall who is proven and Delarosa who is low salary 417k, high potential Aug ERA was 2.22 and Sep ERA was 2.67 and has 128 SOs in 130 innings. SD recognizes Delarosas numbers will improve at pitcher friendly park versus Colorado. Finally, SD meets main objective cutting $14 mil. in salary, free Peavy's long term contract, and fill 5 starting positions while only giving up 2.  NOTE: If they don't trade Giles they eat $3mil.

Cubs Lineup/ Doubles

1. Roberts/51

2. Lee/41

3. Soriano/27

4. Ramirez/44

5. Giles/40

6. Soto/35

7. Theriot

8. Fuku/ Reed

9. Z

Who cares about homers. This team is high OB, well balanced righty-lefty, good table setters, and doubles machines!  

Cubs Rotation

1. Z

2. Dempster

3. Harden

4. Peavy

5. Lilly

My trades hurt the bench and BP. With a lineup like that and 5 really good starters come playoff time 4th and 5th man can plug any BP hole. Plus we have top notch setup and closer combo. Others like Guzman and Asciano will have to step up.  Add a defensive backup at second and we are ready to rumble.

2009 World Series Champs

Done with just $12 mil added to payroll. Less than the cost getting Abreau or Furcal.  Signing Wood and Demp would probably be another $20 mil but well worth the championship. Go Cubs Go!              

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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   Math (rounded)

Dero $5 mil Roberts $10 mil
Font 405k Giles $9mil
Hart 392k Peavy $8mil
Pie 405k Dummy tax $2 mil
Hill 425k
Gaudin $1.8 mil
Marquis $9mil
Equals $17mil Equals $29 mil
29-17=12

by Steve Sax on Oct 31, 2008 3:29 AM CDT reply actions  

no shot

that’s not anough to get Peavy and Giles.

Also no way that gets you Roberts. Hoffpauir does not have that much trade value, same with fontenot.

People need to realize that Rich Hill has ZERO trade value

by Rezze21 on Oct 31, 2008 7:32 AM CDT reply actions  

id swap

sori and aramis in your lineup.

bring up felix.

by kylejo on Oct 31, 2008 7:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Sounds nice...

…but not unlike a lot of potential trade scenerios, the Cubs are giving up quantitiy (instead of quality) to get something of value in return (specifically Roberts).

It just doesn’t work, unless you give up something that compels them to trade who you want.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 31, 2008 7:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Fantasy league trades.

Not to mention the fact that it has been repeatedly discussed here that Brian Giles will never, ever, ever, ever, ever leave San Diego. (Plus, he’s 38 years old in January)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 31, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Okay Al I gotta call you out here

Didn’t you recently do your own “fantasy league trades”? Leave the guy alone, I enjoy reading everyone’s fantasy trades.

With that being said, if Giles didn’t want to go to Boston during the heat of a pennant race, then you’re right, he isn’t going anywhere. SoCal bra!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 31, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think mine were a bit more realistic, don't you?

Seriously, does anyone think Rich Hill has any trade value whatsoever?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 31, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

For the most part

Minus the Fukudome thing.

Just saying it’s October 31st, 157 days til opening day. We gotta talk about something!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 31, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 31, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

ummm

matt cain for d lee was fantasy by alot. that wasnt even close to realistic.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 31, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Giants need offense.

They can afford D-Lee. They have a surplus of pitching. Maybe it was a little much, but it was hardly “fantasy”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 1, 2008 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

lmao

OK!! I will just say I wish you were brian sabean.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 1, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

No you don't.

Al wouldn’t make nearly as many bad trades as Sabean.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I sure wish

he was long enough to give us a cain for derek lee.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 1, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

giants fan here

I would say there is basically zero chance of this happening. If sabean did it, all the fans would go after him with flaming pitchforks or leave. They are trying to go young, and many fans support that (including me)

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Nov 3, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the input.

How many position players are in your system? We only hear about the pitchers. Are you going to bring up your own position players, or are you going to have to trade pitching to get some?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions  

The high minors is pretty bare of high upside position players. We will probably have Sandoval playing pretty much full time next year at 1b, 3b, c, or some combination(although he’s technically not a rookie anymore)

We’ve also tried John Bowker at 1b, but he’s a natural outfielder, and could use some seasoning at AAA. Ortmeier got a shot there too, but did not do well.

So even though we don’t have too many exciting in-house options at first base, we probably will not trade for Lee. If we could get a corner infielder for sanchez, that would definitely be something to look into. Free agency is another strong possibility.

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Nov 3, 2008 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

What about Lee for Sanchez?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 3, 2008 8:17 PM CST up reply actions  

What is Lee’s contract? He is older than I would prefer, but we could do worse. I have the impression that Sanchez’s value is not very high right now given the way he finished the season, so it could be to our advantage just to keep him for now. Still, with some salary help it might be possible.

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Nov 3, 2008 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Lee is scheduled to make

$13M in 2009 and $13M in 2010. The Cubs would probably have to add $1M to get Lee to waive his NTC.

Lee would be good at Phone Co. Park, because it has huge alleys, and he is a gap to gap hitter. He might not get 20 HRs, but could approach 50 doubles.

FYI, Cot’s Baseball Contracts is a wonderful site that lists every player’s contract info.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

There wouldn't be much point in trading Lee unless the other team took the entire contract.

Part of the point is getting salary relief.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 4, 2008 3:40 AM CST up reply actions  

id say he has trade value

not alot. but a pitcher who had the great sucess he did before has to entice teams a little bit. he sucked donkey ass this year but some teams have to like the past “potential”.

I am in no way saying trade Hill or that he has a significant amount of value. Just saying that i disagree with him having ZERO value

by Glacier on Oct 31, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please...

quantity does not equate quality. Just because you package up 4 mediocre players doesn’t mean you can shop for quality players.

Hart and Hill have very minimal trade value. In fact the O’s traded Hart for Macias. I’d be surprised they’d be jumping to get him back. Hoffpauir is a left-handed 1B/DH. There are lots of them around. Fontenot is a platoon type player. For this you want an All-Star caliber player?

I suspect that the Cubs don’t have a lot that Baltimore would want but I’m sure Marmol would have to top any list for Roberts.

by rlpete on Oct 31, 2008 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

Hart was traded for Freddie Bynum.

Actually, they probably would like to have him back. But that deal is still unrealistic.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Oct 31, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are right

Those Dusty bench guys all run together. Tom Perez, Neifi Bynum, Freddie Macias, Jose Goodwin. The one thing they had in common, none could hit.

by rlpete on Oct 31, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

god hearing thoses

names makes me wanna to bow down to theriot and cedeno

by Glacier on Oct 31, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I find these posts hilarious...

…like, lets trade Rich Hill and Kevin Hart for Albert Pujols. Teams don’t our triple A filler, guys. Face it, other than trading our regulars (the Lees, Derosas, Marmols, etc), and other than Vitters, there’s nothing left in our cupboard that teams want.

Peavy ain’t coming here. Forget it. Giles? Maybe, but if he spurned Boston, why would he want to come here? I’d love to see Brian Roberts, but our best chance was last year when Hill had some trade value. we just don’t have the chips to make Baltimore deal him to us.

by reedjohnson on Oct 31, 2008 9:20 AM CDT reply actions  

Under this scenario,

the GM’s in Colorado, Baltimore and San Diego would be fired for incompetence as none of these trades would benefit their teams.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 31, 2008 10:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Ah, the off season...

…when scores of armchair GMs leap from their La-Z-Boys and hurl themselves and their oft-outlandish trade scenarios upon the sharpened rhetorical spears of the baseball-obsessed online intelligensia. For those about to suggest, I salute you!

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 31, 2008 10:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Ugh...

Yet another set of trade proposals that follow the famous axiom of Cub fans…“if you can’t dazzle your trade partner with QUALITY then overwhelm them with QUANTITY” !!!!!

Hill, Fontenot, Hoffpauier and a two year subscription to Vineline for Brian Roberts??? Good grief.

And good luck with that “blockbuster” arrangement for acquiring Jake Peavy.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 31, 2008 11:09 AM CDT reply actions  

hey

they’d get the awesome magnet that says “(your name) signed with the Cubs”

by Glacier on Oct 31, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

A three year subscription is still questionable...

…although they might take it. I’d guess you’d have to throw in one of those Cubs Mr Potato Heads to clinch the deal in addition to that third year. I’m no MLB GM, though ;)

by MarchHare on Oct 31, 2008 12:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Umm....
Let’s begin with the Cub’s two top priorities: a solid leadoff man and Lefty OFer.I propose 3 trades that would raise payroll by only $12 mil. fulfill team priorities and add allstar ace. ( $12 mil increase doesn’t reflect signing FAs Wood and Demp.)

In the real world (the one using Sam Zell’s checkbook rather than Mark Cuban’s), the Cubs will not be raising the payroll $12M plus Demp and Woody. In all likelihood, they will be raising the payroll $10M or less total, and some of that is built-in raises to Sori, Lilly, etc.

1. Trade Marquis, Gaudin, and B prospect to to Colorado for LHP Delarosa.

Why would the Rockies want Marquis instead of De La Rosa? If the Cubs pay all of Jason’s salary, the Rockies might take him, but you’ve shot your payroll savings. If you trade Marquis, it will have to be a team that will take on his salary (e.g., Mets) — and you won’t get anything nearly as good as De La Rosa in return. Also, the Rockies have plenty of B-level prospects of their own.

2. Trade Fontenot, Hill, Hoffpaur, and Hart plus $2mil. to Os for Brian Roberts.

Why would the O’s want a 28-year old pitcher with Steve Blass disease? His “future greatness” is no better than a #3 starter, if he finds his control. Why would they want a 4A 1B when they have the money to sign Tex? Why would they replace a “face of the franchise” 2B with a bench player? The O’s have many problems, but money is not one of them. They can afford Roberts (and want to extend him), and don’t need our cast-offs.

3. Trade Derosa, Marshall, Pie, and Delarosa to SD for Peavy and Brian Giles.

The Padres are hopeful of getting 3 A-level prospects from the Braves. Why would they take Pie, who is no better than a B-level prospect, Marshall, a #5 starter who is one year away from arbitration, and one year of a good 2B when they have several 2B prospects and aren’t going to be competitive next year anyway? How much money do you think you would have to throw at Brian Giles to get him to wave his NTC? They will pick up Giles’ option so that they have two (three if they don’t trade Greene) legitimate MLers in their lineup.

In short, none of these trades have a chance.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 31, 2008 12:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Amen brother

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Oct 31, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Psst...I think he's a girl.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Oct 31, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Sister" would have been more correct, but I get the point.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 31, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

you go, girl! ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 31, 2008 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

also

that orioles trade means thatd be trading back for two of their former players in Hart and Fontenot. Seems stupid but im sure you know that now

by Glacier on Oct 31, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is this a discussion board for Cubs fans or a lynch mob??
I appreciate your constuctive feeback, but when you’re slingin out insults along with it it this cite becomes a little ridiculous. I don’t claim to be any bigtime GM just a guy making fantasy trades. No wonder it’s always the same guys talking about the same thing. cubs Wynn is cool, the rest of you belong on the south side routing for the sox. Peace.

by Steve Sax on Oct 31, 2008 4:59 PM CDT reply actions  

BCB isn't a lynch mob,

but we try to use a modicum of jugement when “making trades.”

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 31, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Told you guys I was cool!!!

But SteveSax I think you are taking things a little too personally. Of course some of the things said were over the top, but you know by now that when you create a fanpost, you leave yourself open to this sort of criticism. Moreover, I think at least half of it was constructive.

I think the best conclusion we made from this post is, CubsWynn is cool. Let’s leave it at that.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 31, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

See my post above.

Don’t saunter into the Trade Scenario Coliseum if you can’t handle being mauled by a tiger or clubbed by a cudgel.

"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.

by daver on Nov 3, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Half of it was indeed constructive and I appreciate the insight. Those weren’t real tears. I don’t take any of this personal those razor marks were already on my wrists. Anyways, I like reading everyones opinions but I really wish we had Giles, Peavy, and Roberts. I may not know how to get there but the idea is nice. Any suggestions on possible trades to get there????

by Steve Sax on Nov 1, 2008 12:48 AM CDT reply actions  

No, because...

1) Giles won’t come here, not now, not ever

2) Peavy’s price is too high

3) We went through the whole Roberts thing last year. It’s tiresome and MacPhail is impossible to trade with.

Let’s move on.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 1, 2008 4:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Peavy's price is not too high.

When SD is down to dealing with either the Cubs or the Dodgers, we are talking about a discounted price here. The discount may not be that much, but the last thing Peavy is – is overpriced.

The Padres are a good team to trade with for us, because they are flush at the corners which means there’s no trouble in keeping Vitters off the table. They are also lacking up the middle, where we don’t have prospects, but we have an abundance of cost-controlled guys with skills that DePodesta’s computer might like. The Padres, who went for Marcus Giles before, may really, really like Mike Fontenot.

The problem is that we don’t match well with the Padres if they are seeking two young pitchers, which has been rumored. We do potentially match some of the Padres desires if they want middle infielders and a centerfielder. Of course, the Padres probably don’t want just quantity – Fontenot, Theriot/Cedeno, Gaudin, Pie – that’s highly unlikely to get it done unless the Padres value more than one of those guys higher than we’d expect.

But, if the Cubs are willing to explore a three-way trade where they give up Ted Lilly to another team and trade some or all of the Lilly return in a package to get Peavy, this becomes much more realistic, if not still complicated and difficult. A Peavy trade could also happen if the Cubs managed to swap Derrek Lee for Giants pitching. I’d keep Matt Cain, if we could get him, rather than Peavy, but Jon Sanchez could really help bolster a Peavy package.

So, the price is hardly high if it is Ted Lilly, a couple Cajuns, and Felix Pie. The only one of those guys we plan to count on next year is Lilly, and who wouldn’t do a Lilly to Peavy upgrade, especially since Peavy is cheaper than Lilly in 2009.

I’m not expecting a Peavy-to-the-Cubs trade to happen, but it’s not something to dismiss.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps I didn't say it properly.

Maybe the price isn’t too high, but as you note, the Cubs don’t match up well. As such, for the Cubs the price IS too high. Giving up Lilly — what’s the point? Just as the Roberts deal would have been last year, you are giving up quite a bit to get a marginal upgrade.

The Cubs should explore getting Jonathan Sanchez even if it doesn’t involve D-Lee, and they should definitely look into getting Ricky Nolasco back. Nolasco is a year younger than Peavy and a year from now — who knows? He might be held in higher esteem.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 1, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Peavy is more than a marginal upgrade on Lilly

and part of that is because I have a lot of mistrust about Lilly being able to maintain the level of production we’ve seen over the past two years.

Anyway, I think I’m the one who hasn’t said it well. The Cubs are missing a few pieces SD says they want, but apart from those pieces we could potentially match up VERY well. What I mean is that as I survey the teams in the ML who might want Ronny Cedeno, Mike Fontenot, and Felix Pie, SD comes up high on the list for each of those guys. If those three guys can go a long way towards buying Jake Peavy – the price is right.

Let me be totally clear – SD won’t trade Peavy for those three guys. That’s why it’s still complicated. But – we might even be able to keep part of the Lilly return as well as get Peavy, if SD likes our up-the-middle talent enough.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

One thing about trading Lilly for Peavy (directly or indeirectly)...

Z, Peavy, Demp, Harden, Marquis — is an all-RHP rotation. Lou wants that less than he wants an all-RHB lineup. If you trade Marquis and insert Marshall, you gain a LHP fifth starter (who will be skipped occasionally), but you lose depth and a bullpen buddy for Harden. Also, I don’t share your mistrust of Lilly, and I’m not sure that Marshall could pitch 180 innings — we know that Marquis can.

Fontenot would hit .220 in SD, just like Giles did. They are both fly ball hitters, and Petco is where fly ball hitters go to die. Also, Giles has a much better glove than LBR and is a cheap FA if they need a 2B filler. Towers learned his lesson about small fly ball hitters.

I think they would still be interested in Pie, but I’m not sure where we match up, unless it was a 4th OF like Jody Gerut.

They would probably be interested in flipping Greene for Cedeño + a pitcher (Marshall, Hart, Gaudin, or Veal?), but I don’t think that Lou can bench Riot after starting him for 1.5 years, and he certainly can’t bench DeRo after last season. He can’t move DeRo to RF since they “need” a LHB there, so that trade would necessitate a 3rd partner or another trade. I wouldn’t mind seeing how Greene’s power plays in a smaller yard, and he’s a definite upgrade defensively.

Personally, I think that Peavy will start the season in either a Braves or Padres uniform.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 1, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying Fontenot would succeed in Petco

I’m saying they might want him. I also think they’d do Greene for Cedeno straight up, given the financial part of the deal. We might even be able to ask for something else besides Greene in that deal.

Otherwise, your point about us not getting much from SD (besides maybe Gerut) is why it would be nice to see if we can add them all up in a three-way deal to help get Peavy.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

If the Dads were willing to do Greene for Cedeño even-up,

and I don’t think they would with the O’s being desperate for a SS, what would you do with Riot?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 1, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not worried about what to do with Riot.

He’s a decent bench player if nothing else.

I don’t think the O’s want Greene, who has 1 year left. In fact, it’s the O’s desperation for a SS that heightens Cedeno’s price.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what Riot's value would be off the bench...

Bench players generally fall into one (or more) of the following categories:

1. PH. Riot can get on base leading off an inning, but he has no RBI or XBH ability. Also, he is a RHB, and most closers are RHPs.

2. Defensive replacement. From what we’ve seen so far, Riot can’t play the OF (though that can be fixed in ST), he wouldn’t be better than Greene (or any other SS), he doesn’t have a 3B arm, and he wouldn’t be an upgrade over DeRo at 2B. So, as a defensive replacement, he’s unemployable. (If you are into humor, Colin posted the Rally defensive projections. Cedeño was -2 at SS, DeRo was -3, and Riot was -7. I’m not the only one who thinks that DeRo would be a better SS than Riot.)

3. PR. Riot does have slightly above average speed, though he certainly isn’t a burner. But, do you want a guy whose baserunning IQ is only slightly better than Cedeño’s to be a late-inning PR? I’d rather leave DeRo or DLee in.

So, what help would he be? Even Hoff brings power potential and a LHB to the PH role. Worse, Lou would feel bad and try to get him into every game, just like he did early in 2007. That led to some ridiculous double-switches. Riot in 2009 would be like Howry in 2008. No. Thank. You.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 1, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most bench players aren't good.

Theriot could fill the same role that Cedeno did with better OBP skills.

Anyway, I don’t think Theriot will be a bench player. You can trade him if nothing else.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Riot

proved himself in 08 you cant take away his success with the bat. Even though hes mostly a singles hitter, he gets on base a lot. He would have scored a ton of more runs if DLee didnt kill every rally that he started. I think he got a lot of good exposure because of the Cubs dominance during the regular season, and im sure there are some GMs wishing they had a guy like that on their team. Even though his D is shaky, he still has value on the trade market due to his cost effectiveness and offensive talents. Besides he may not be the best defender around but he certainly isn’t as bad as some guys tend to suggest.

by Steve Sax on Nov 1, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is this Cwyers bait or what?

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Nov 3, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Green would be...

…a nice defensive upgrade for sure.

For all those who think Piniella would insist on Theriot being his SS, Levine reported today, that he heard from Cubs sources that Theriot is by no means guaranteed to be the starting SS in 09.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 1, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting.

Especially after Theriot had about as good an offensive season as he’s capable of.

Lou must really have finally figured out he can’t play defense.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 1, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

To clarify

I’ve said in the past that the Cubs could easily want to move Theriot over to 2nd (if DeRosa was traded or starting at a different IF position). Was the impression given that the Cubs could look for a SS or that Theriot could get moved back to the bench altogether?

I don’t think Lou will give up on Theriot as a starter on this team unless there are name players at 2B and SS.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fontenot question

Just wondering here: most people on this blog that I’ve seen seem to regard Fontenot as a utility player. I haven’t gotten to see him play much (since Im a Giants fan) but just judging from his stats, they seem pretty good for a 2b (some power and patience). Or maybe I’m just not used to it since the Giants lack both power and patience.

Anyway, it sounds like he could be tradeable? I wouldn’t mind the GIants trying for him. I noticed the poll on the main page mentioned lefty hitting outfielder and leadoff hitter as top priorities. So here’s my idea: The Giants have Randy Winn, who is blocking Schierholtz in the outfield. He isn’t really a true leadoff hitter, although he can hit there if necessary (as he did much of his time with the Giants). He is a switch hitter who can hit for average, with some pop, and plays very good corner outfield defense (or average d in center). Could he be a good fit on the Cubs? And in a deal centered around him and Fontenot (or possibly Lee?) what other pieces would be necessary?

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Nov 3, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Fontenot

Our discussions here on this site tend to conclude that Fontenot’s swing would be over-exposed in full-time play, but that he remains a good bench weapon, especially for a team that has Mark DeRosa as the primary 2B who can also play any other position.

The Cubs might consider a trade centering around Fontenot and Winn, but probably not as a first option.

Some have wondered on this site also if the Giants might be a potentially interested party if the Cubs sought to unnload Alfonso Soriano’s contract. What would you think of that?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 3, 2008 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

soriano?

Depends what we’d have to give up. Sabean has stated that the young pitching is practically untouchable (especially Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner, Alderson). I doubt they could work out a deal there. To deal Cain or Lincecum, we would probably need a package of 2-3+ young, high potential major league ready players (ideally with power).

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Nov 3, 2008 7:48 PM CST up reply actions  

If you guys want Fontenot, you can have him.

Mike (LBR around here, “Little Babe Ruth”) is very small (5’8" at most) and he has surprising power for a guy his size. He generates his power by starting his swing early, looping a bit, and looking for inside fastballs. He is very susceptible to off-speed stuff, and he doesn’t cover the outer third of the plate very well. He does have a good understanding of the strike zone, and he runs pretty well. His glove is OK (not great) at 2B, but he has no arm.

The reason his stats look so good is that Lou spotted him against the type of pitcher he hits well: RH fastball pitchers. (That is easy to do when the primary 2B is the primary backup everywhere else.) The reason that Kosuke Fukudome started game 1 of the playoffs is that Lou knew that LBR doesn’t hit sinkerball pitchers like Derrek Lowe.

You certainly would not want him as the headliner in a deal, but as a throw-in you could do a lot worse. Winn might have enough value around the league that you could get someone better. My guess is that Winn would not be enough for Lee, but would be too much for Fontenot.

Where would Frandsen play? Isn’t he a 2B?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks for the info

A trade for Lee is probably unlikely, from what I’ve heard, although I wouldn’t rule it out completely.

As for Frandsen, he is primarily a second basemen, but can play 3b (or even shortstop, although not especially well). His bat plays best at 2b, of course, and is questionable even there.

Even after hearing what you said about Fontenot, I still wouldn’t mind trying for him. It’s not as if the Giants have a surplus of better options.

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Nov 3, 2008 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

It's easy for me to say "you can have him"

because we have DeRosa. :-)

Since you guys probably aren’t going to win in 2009, he wouldn’t be a bad guy to try if Frandsen can play somewhere else; LBR can’t play the left side.

Depending on what the Cubs do with Ronny Cedeño, whether they get an everyday RF, and whether they make a run at a leadoff batting 2B, Fontenot might be available for a relief pitcher or B-level prospect.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

reliever

Like a jack taschner type perhaps? Lefty, decent K rate, can be wild though. About 30 -31 years old, I believe, with decent stuff. The ERA makes his season look worse than it was – september and the second half of august raised it a lot (possibly from fatigue, since it was at the end of the season)

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Nov 3, 2008 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Not a bad analysis of LBR...

…but I disagree a bit on his swing. He actually has a fairly compact swing, but he gets out ahead of slow stuff because he tries to get his body into the swing to create additional power. A guy his size can only create the type of power he does by using his lower half, and sometimes he over does it.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 3, 2008 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

What do you think the price on Nolasco would be?

How do you see the Cubs pitching shaking out if we re-sign Dempster and trade for Nolasco? Has your view changed from your big post a week or so back?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm probably going to revisit that post.

I still want Nolasco. Sean Marshall would probably have to be PART of a package to get him — obviously, that wouldn’t be enough, but I do know the Marlins want to move guys like that who are eligible for big raises in arbitration, that’s why they already traded Jacobs.

Again, if you did this and re-signed Dempster, maybe you could move Marquis’ contract to one of the NY teams, both of whom could use him. All you’d want in exchange for taking the contract — which takes almost $10 million off the 2009 payroll — would be a face-saving prospect or two.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 1, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's a question

Rumors right now are suggesting that the Yankees aren’t focused on Teix. What would you want back from the Yankees if they took Marquis and Lee and asked for no $ in the deal?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting question...

It might depend on the timing, and whether they sign CC and/or Lowe and/or Demp, and whether or not Mussina retires.

The Yanks want to unload one of their corner OFs (Matsui, Damon, Nady), because they don’t want to tie up the DH spot exclusively with a COF. They want to keep Nady (who is a RHB anyway), because he is the best RF of the three and they are probably not going to re-sign Abreu.

Damon and Matsui are each in the last year of their contracts, and each will make $13M in 2009. Matsui might not be capable of playing every day anymore due to knee problems, but is a LHB with power and a possible mentor for Dome. We would need to carry 5 OFs so that Dome and Matsui each had a RHB platoon-mate.

Damon is no longer capable of playing CF at Yankee stadium, but might be able to play CF at Wrigley. (Think of how bad Edmonds looked in the vastness of Arizona.) He does not have a RF arm. He is still an excellent leadoff hitter, and he bats LH.

My guess is that the Yanks would rather trade Matsui, but that might be difficult as he has a full NTC and has stated that he only wants to play for the Yanks. Maybe Dome changes his mind?

From the Cubs’ perspective, it gives us a LHB (either power or leadoff), and each fits into DLee’s pay slot, but is done after 2009. They also off-load Marquis’ salary. (I’m not in favor of trading Marquis just to open a slot for Marshall, but I think that payroll is going to be tight enough to force a move.)

From the Yanks’ perspective, they get a RHB (which they need) who can plug the LCF alley with line drives and who is good at getting on base. They only have to make a two year commitment (as opposed to 8-10 years for Tex), and they get a SP who will always take the ball.

Next question: will DLee waive his NTC to play for the Yanks?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 1, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree...

…that Peavy is more than a marginal upgrade over Lilly, but you do have to factor in the left handed factor as well. Most teams kill for decent left handed starters, and they are hard to come by.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 1, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Peavy is a possibility

His list of 5 teams include the Cubs Dodgers Houston St lous and Braves. St Louis is out-not intrested. LA is out the same division means they would pay a higher price. The Braves dont wanna give up their best chips. So the Cubs and Astros are very much in it. Henry can pull it off if we take Greene’s 4.5mil contract.
Peavy’s agent indicated they would make it harder for the team to trade him to an undesirable team by demanding extra cash… I wouldn’t rule this one out, this deal secures the rotation for 3 more years. Pitching is king.

by Steve Sax on Nov 1, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions  

And taking Greene is something we should do.

He gives us a defensive option at SS and a guy who could benefit from a different hitting coach.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're pissin' in the wind on Jake Peavy

The Cubs don’t have remotely what it will take to pry him away from San Diego. I could care less if Peavy has 5 teams on his list of trade options. That list will be thrown in the garbage can just as soon as a potential trading partner indicates willingness to restructure Peavy’s contract as condition of acquiring him from San Diego.

The Yankees, Red Sox and Brewers are all going to go very hot and heavy after Peavy. Cubs? I doubt the interest and I doubt even more the ability to match up in trade.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Nov 1, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's possible SD is going through the motions.

It’s also possible they want to do what they can to make their player happy, as they did for Greg Maddux.

Of course the Cubs don’t match up directly with SD. That’s why I’ve talked about a three-team trade where Lilly gets us some pieces that do match up better.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 1, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think trading Lilly is a deal breaker unless we know we can rely on Marshall to pitch 200 plus. You think the Cubs can survive with an all righty rotation? Peavy Z Demp and Harden are rough and tough to match ina short series.

by Steve Sax on Nov 2, 2008 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I see it happening

Simply because SD wants to dump salaries cause of the whole divorce thing with the owner. it’s been made clear Peavy wants to be on a winner. Greene would be a defensive upgrade plus hes a power guy. So you lose a little on base but you gain power at 7 or 8 spot and defense. Theriot would have to be part of a trade package- and it has been said that SD is on the market for a middle infielder.
I wouldnt be surprised if Giles was in that deal too. Only cause he’s a good fit for the Cubs, The Padres would be dumping 3 of their top 4 payrolls, and if they let Giles go as a FA they gotta buy him out for $3mil…. It would be an expensive move(around $20mil) but all 3 players are good fits.
Note: Giles has a limited no trade clause in his contract the Cubs are not on the list so it is a realistic notion to suggest Giles may be in a Cub uniform.

by Steve Sax on Nov 1, 2008 7:25 PM CDT reply actions  

We have been over this many times.

It is NOT a realistic notion to suggest that Giles could be a Cub (not that I’d want him at his age, anyway).

He rejected a trade to the Red Sox last year — why would you not want to go from last place to a playoff contender? Because SD is his home and he likes it there.

The end of the 2008 season was Giles’ 5th full season in SD — thus he now has full 10-and-5 rights, meaning he can reject ANY trade.

Bottom line: Brian Giles will be a Padre in 2009. Book it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 2, 2008 4:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Brian Giles isn’t leaving San Diego. I don’t want the guy anyway. There is compelling evidence to suggest that he was a product of steroids. The guy is smaller size and far less “puffy” then he was a few years ago. Plus he’s into his late 30’s. I also have a problem acquiring a guy who is comfortable playing in his hometown of San Diego as part of one of the worst teams in baseball. Giles has never played on a good baseball team. Maybe there is a reason for that.

"Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.'' -- Matt Stairs (aka The Professional Hitter)

by MDBNIU on Nov 2, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

While I don't want Giles either...

… I’ll quibble with you a bit on “never played on a good baseball team”. Giles has been in the postseason five times — with the 1996, 1997 and 1998 Indians (granted, only 1 AB in 1996), and the 2005 and 2006 Padres.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 3, 2008 3:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Brian Roberts at SS.

Joe Sheehan over at Sports Illustrated in a piece on “radical moves” clubs might make suggests the O’s move Brian Roberts to SS and explains why that might be feasible:

Roberts… was Baseball America’s National Defensive Player of the Year at shortstop in college. The O’s didn’t have a reliable shortstop in 2008, and given their farm system and the players on the market, they aren’t likely to have one in ’09. Roberts would be better than the available options….

Last year I noted a few rumors that suggested the Cubs might try Roberts at SS if they traded for him; I also wondered why the Cubs were looking at Roberts and Kaz Matsui (both former SSs) but not Luis Castillo (a switch-hitting, speedy 2B ONLY). If they Cubs were to put Roberts at SS and leave DeRo at 2B, how does that change what your feelings about a Roberts trade?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 3, 2008 1:38 PM CST reply actions  

And here's another question -

If you only had the trade chips to get Peavy or Roberts for SS and leadoff – which would you rather get?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 3, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Neither.

To me, Peavy is a luxury item. If the Cubs re-sign Demp, they will have one of the best rotations in baseball, even if they trade Marquis.

See my reply below on Roberts at SS — no thank you. He would make a good leadoff hitter (though I’m not totally convinced that the Cubs really need a new leadoff hitter more than a new manager), but he is not a SS. Either you move DeRo to SS or RF, or you trade him.

Just because we have a few trade chips doesn’t mean that we have to use them. I would rather save them for a deadline deal when we have injuries. A small trade, like Luke Scott, would reap more dividends.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

What's the point?

Roberts has played 53 ML games (429 inn) at SS with a .933 FP and a 4.90 RF/9. His last forray at SS, in 2003, yielded 2 errors in 2 games.

DeRo has played 139 ML games (829 inn) at SS with a .974 FP and a 4.85 RF/9. Since 2003, DeRo has played 36 games at SS, committing 3 errors. DeRo also has a much stronger arm than Roberts.

Why, O DGU, would you want to have Roberts at SS and DeRo at 2B? It makes some sense for the O’s, because they have a black hole at SS, and 2Bmen are easier to find. It makes absolutely no sense for the Cubs unless the 2B is named Fontenot.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I know that you think DeRo can play SS and your arguments are strong

but Lou is not playing DeRo at SS. If Lou is willing to play Roberts at SS, then we have a strong IF from the batting perspective, especially OBP.

Think of it this way – with Lou, you can have the backwards IF of Cedeno at 2B and Theriot at SS or Roberts at SS and DeRosa at 2B. The latter sounds a lot better to me than the former.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 3, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Please just shoot me.

The thought of Roberts at SS is too nauseating to bear…

The reason that Lou won’t play DeRo at SS is that Riot’s bat won’t play anywhere else. If DeRo looks better at SS, how could Lou justify playing Riot every day? If, perchance, the O’s took Riot in a Roberts trade, Lou would figure out that DeRo can play SS — very quickly.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Bottom line...

…if they get a better option, Theriot won’t be playing SS.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 3, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope that you are correct.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 9:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Remember, Roberts is in his free agent year.

I think the only way he would agree to this is if the team acquiring him would be able to sign him to anextension that is fair market value.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Nov 3, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Roberts would gladly take a shot at SS

because there’s no loss for him in trying. If he comes off looking like he can’t handled it, potential free agent buyers will still remember him as a good 2B. If, on the other hand, he plays the position well enough, he’s hit free agent jackpot.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 3, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Most guys don't like being embarrassed publicly.

Many guys won’t switch because they don’t want to risk humiliation. Otherwise, guys like DeRo — who play everywhere and hit well — would be a dime a dozen. Most guys don’t even want to move between RF and CF. Roberts is already overpaid as a singles-hitting 2B; why would he risk humiliation to make only slightly more at SS?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 6:33 PM CST up reply actions  

You really don't like Roberts, do you?

Roberts is a pretty good 2Bs hitter, fwiw.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 3, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Roberts is a very good player as a 2B.

However, $8.6M is a fairly steep price for a singles-hitting 2B. I don’t think it is necessarily wrong for the Orioles to pay that, since he has a lot of intangible value to them, but I don’t think the Cubs need to spend the extra $3M (getting Roberts and trading DeRo) when Roberts is a speed guy on the dark side of 30, and DeRo has had a higher OPS two of the last three years. A team with a limited budget can’t waste $3M and prospects on a minor upgrade like that, and Roberts has no “intangible value” with the Cubs. I don’t think that the 2009 Cubs can afford both, unless they fail to sign Demp, don’t sign a FA RF, and trade Marquis.

In a world with Mark Cuban’s checkbook, I would love to see DeRo at SS and Roberts at 2B. DeRo is at least as good as Riot defensively (which isn’t saying much), and Roberts is at least as good as DeRo at 2B. It eliminates the usefulness of LBR, but Roberts is a SH. That would be one of the better offensive MIs in baseball. And, most importantly, it would force Teflon Lou to shut up about not having a leadoff hitter. (He would find something else to use as an excuse, but at least we could hear something new.)

BTW, if you haven’t noticed: my problem isn’t with Brian Roberts, it is with Lou Piniella.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

8.6 mil is too much for Roberts?

…the lineup is absolutely screaming for someone like him at the top of the order.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 3, 2008 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I put together a spreadsheet based on the data on Cot's...

Using the $130M cap that was apparently given by Crane Kenney, they would be in trouble if they tried to add Roberts.

The Cubs are at about $120M, counting raises to DeRo, Sori, etc., and my guess on arbitration raises. That $120M does not include Demp, Woody, Howry, Ward, or Blanco.

If they sign Demp with a 2009 salary of $10M and they trade Marquis, they are still at $120M, but with less depth in the rotation to cover for Harden’s inevitable stay on the DL.

That leaves $10M, and they still would like to sign Wood, and they desperately need a LHB CF or RF. Even if they were to trade DeRo for Roberts, you have just used $3M of that $10M for a minor upgrade at 2B. If you add Roberts and move DeRo to RF, you would now have no LH power bat in the OF and would have only $2M for Wood, which won’t get the job done. I don’t think that they should dump Lilly, Sori, Lee, or Ramírez just to make room for Roberts, but that is what they would have to do.

I guess you just have to ask which problem is more pressing: upgrading 2B, upgrading CF/RF, or retaining a closer to give the bullpen much needed depth.

And that is only the money aspect. Do you want to trade the few prospects we have for a minor upgrade at 2B, and then have no flexibility if we suffer a major injury in June?

(That is why I said “the world with Mark Cuban’s checkbook” in the previous post.)

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I look at it a little differently...

…and base this on the lineup and how it needs to be improved. They need a legit leadoff hitter and if they settle for someone on the club now, it will be a half ass effort to fill the slot. They also need a power LH bat to go along with the leadoff hitter.

I don’t look at it as upgrading certain positions, but as upgrading the lineup that has gone to ice the last two playoff series.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 3, 2008 9:40 PM CST up reply actions  

OK. You want to improve the lineup.

Whom do you trade to clear enough salary room to make your additions? I don’t see enough money for Roberts and a FA RF, even if DeRo is traded.

Also, if you add Roberts and a RF (say, Abreu), whom do you trade to make room in the lineup?

It doesn’t matter if you are thinking of fielding positions or lineup positions, there are only so many dollars (most of which are committed to guys with NTCs), and so many slots in the lineup and on the field to put everyone you acquire.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 3, 2008 10:22 PM CST up reply actions  

If there is a true...

…cap at 130 mil for Hendry (and I wouldn’t blame the Trib one bit for doing that) Hendry is going to have to get creative in the trade market to fill leadoff, the LHP hole and still resign Dempster.

To me, if this club goes into 09 and does not aggressively address the two lineup holes (that have bitten them in two straight playoffs), they could be asking for more of the same.

If it comes down to it, you may have to trade Ramirez to free up money for that lefty. This is, if it is a good lefty that can contribute similar numbers.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 3, 2008 11:48 PM CST up reply actions  

This is what's going to be interesting about this off-season

Hendry is finally cramped financially again and will have to get creative. He may even have Jake Peavy thrown into his lap, but find that a problem, since going for Peavy might mean not having the resources to “fix” the lineup.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 4, 2008 1:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I guess you just hit my point.

Is Ramírez more valuable than Roberts? Is DeRo more valuable than Abreu? Is Dempster more valuable than Abreu?

If you have definitive answers to those questions, Jim Hendry would like to speak with you ASAP.

It’s easy to say “add Roberts” until you start trying to figure out from where the subtraction is coming.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 4, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

You choose to look at...

…player by player matchups, and that does not tell you what changes will do to the sum of the parts.

IMO, the offense needs a legit leadoff man and left handed bat to be a more formidable offense, especially against better pitchers you see in playoff competition.

So, the question should not be whether Ramirez is more valuable than Roberts (or any other player to player comparisons), it should be “what makes the lineup more difficult to pitch against” and improves your chances to win.

Too many people get hung up on specific players and they lose sight of one simple fact; pitchers face the entire lineup, and when you can throw a variety of weapons at them – speed, power, LH bats, RH bats, OBP etc., those are the lineups they least like to face.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 4, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

JMO

I am looking at player by player matchups because Jim Hendry has to fit X LHBs into 7 fielding positions and a limited budget. He cannot add Roberts without trading someone for salary space and trading DeRo (to make room at 2B), moving DeRo to SS and trading Riot, or moving DeRo to RF and Dome to CF. “Adding Roberts” in a vacuum will lead to chaos in the clubhouse as well as budget problems.

If Ramírez and DeRo are deemed too valuable to trade, and Dome, DLee, and Sori are untradable due to NTCs and/or $, the only alternatives for adding Roberts are moving DeRo to SS or RF. Can DeRo play SS? Better than Riot. Can DeRo play RF? Yes, but you then can’t add another LHB. Even if you take the “easy path”, and move DeRo to SS (benching or trading Riot), you can’t afford Roberts if you also intend to sign Demp (or trade for Peavy). And you still haven’t signed Wood or a RF.

My point is that you do have to look at each current player’s value vs. the value of the player you want to add — there is no way around it lineup-wise or budget-wise.

I don’t share your (or Lou’s) view that a speedy leadoff hitter is essential; I think a LHB with power is much more important. All I know is that the 2008 Cubs led the NL in runs scored without a “speedy leadoff hitter” or much help from the LHBs.

In my perfect world (the one with Mark Cuban’s checkbook), I would have Roberts at 2B, DeRo at SS, and Dome in RF. I would either re-sign Edmonds or trade for a CF. I just don’t think that this perfect world exists right now.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 4, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

It was good reading all the insightful feedback. Even though my trades got ripped it still was cool to build a powerhouse team. Lets see what happens this winter.

by Steve Sax on Nov 8, 2008 1:17 AM CST reply actions  

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