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PRE-PreGame Thread: You know what has to be done

581x300_wrigley_field_tiny by cubswgnrocks on

You know what has to be done. It has been speculated many times over for the past 2 days. Now it is time to get it done. Rich Harden needs to have a good game, and the Cubs need to score some runs. Here is my gameplan: JUST WIN!

Go Cubs....

Chicago Cubs vs. Los Angeles Dodgers

Dodger Stadium

Rich Harden

Huroki Kuroda

JUST WIN, BABY!

GO CUBS GO CUBS GO CUBS GO CUBS GO CUBS GO CUBS

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I think we have a good chance of winning IF

and only if we put more runs on the board than they do.

by GoCubbies34 on Oct 4, 2008 2:03 PM CDT   0 recs

great analysis

you sound like John Madden

by china423 on Oct 4, 2008 3:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I really think this

team will come out tonight and take this one. It starts with one game. Worry about tomorrow’s game tomorrow.

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 2:08 PM CDT   0 recs

Was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor!?

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 4, 2008 2:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Germans?

Forget it…He’s on a roll!

by Adam the Bull on Oct 4, 2008 2:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Where have you been?

I missed you!!

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 2:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't know I went anywhere

Well, last week my brother/sis-in-law showed up from Chicago so that’s where I was but the last few days I’ve been around… just not in game threads as I decided sleep would be more important. Turns out, it was. And sounds like I didn’t miss much except bitching.

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 4, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hope you enjoyed the

family. Hopefully tonight there is nothing to bitch about.

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 2:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They can't let this happen

They’ve all said they remember the taste left in their mouths after last years playoff sweep.. Let’s hope they are able to motivate themselves to go out there, have fun and just play baseball.

"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."

by All The Way on Oct 4, 2008 2:09 PM CDT   0 recs

If I were managing tonight,

Harden has the ball until he gives it back. Hopefully, that would lead to 9 innings, even if it has to be 130 pitches.

by Canseco's Roid Party on Oct 4, 2008 2:11 PM CDT   0 recs

+100,000,000

No saving pitchers for some future game tonight, Lou. This is it! Let Rich go!

"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." ~Arthur C. Clarke

by Goodie1969 on Oct 4, 2008 2:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Didn't they say

he’s not restricted to pitch counts or innings tonight? I hope he has a fantastic game tonight.

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if lou trots out howry

I will curl up into a little sobbing ball

This hurts.

by Emelie on Oct 4, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I had a little

crying jag this morning but it could happen again if Howry comes in. I would think Lou has learned this guy can’t pitch in close situtations.

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 3:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll allow it.

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 4, 2008 3:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Emelie to curl up in a sobbing ball

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 4, 2008 3:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OK, then

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 4, 2008 3:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Really now?

I guess I just have something to work for ;-)

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 4, 2008 4:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did they?

I read an article earlier that quoted Harden as saying he wants to pitch deeper, but I haven’t seen anything from Lou.

by kanderber on Oct 4, 2008 4:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wish I could remember

where I read or heard it from.

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 5:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

offense

will be the key…i think harden will give up no more then 3 runs…but its all up to the cubs giving him some support with the bats…simple as that..can we lay off kurodas down and away slider and capitalize on mistake pitches

lets just go out there and win this one to give us some hope!!!

by cubbiepride on Oct 4, 2008 2:24 PM CDT   0 recs

Harden...

…is 34-0 in his career, when he gets 4 or more runs of support.

Pretty amazing stat.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 4, 2008 5:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lou-

pretend its like game 5 tonight. Don’t worry about protecting Harden or overextending Marmol or anything like that. In order to truly treat this series one game at a time, the focus must be 100% on tonight and pulling out all the stops to get this W.

by jberms1 on Oct 4, 2008 2:29 PM CDT   0 recs

AGREE

if he has to bring in marmol early to get out of a jam…DO IT

by WUSTLCubsFan on Oct 4, 2008 2:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I will be at the game tonight

So i can’t wait to see the look on the Dodgers fans faces when the Cubs beat them. I’m staying positive. Rich Harden NEEDS to pitch as long as he is effective. it could be the last game of the year, so let him through over 100 pitches.
The only thing I worry about is that it’s raining and it’s supposed to continue into this evening.

by LACubFan on Oct 4, 2008 2:32 PM CDT   0 recs

Take lots of pictures....

espcially of Geo for us ladies. :D

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You call this rain?

Maybe it will keep some Dodgers fans away, but it has been less than a drizzle so far today.

See you at the game.

by vonde6 on Oct 4, 2008 5:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Here's hoping

…that shot has the same effect on Harden that it did on Z. Go Cubs!

This line from a movie, television show or other piece of popular culture pretty much sums up my entire personality.

by ScottieG33 on Oct 4, 2008 2:39 PM CDT   0 recs

Couple of Notes

From the Sun Times:

1) Apparently Dempster will be available out of the pen tonight. No knock on Ryan, but let’s hope that’s not necessary.
2) Lou’s confirmed that Fontenot will start tonight.

by 08Cubs on Oct 4, 2008 2:43 PM CDT   0 recs

My lineup for tonite

Theriot, Fontenot, DeRosa, Soriano, Edmonds, Ramirez, Lee, Soto, Harden

Soriano is the only feared hitter in this lineup and he has to move down. He gets no protection at the top and pitchers realize they don’t even have to throw strikes to get him out. Breaking balls on the outside corner and he’ll swing. Pitchers can’t rely on that near enough if there are runners on base or if there is immediate protection behind him. Soriano is a great leadoff man against average to poor pitchers, but the good ones kill him. He has to move down and he has to move now. It’s a desperation move but these are desperate times.

I’d like Soto down at 8 because he needs to primarily concentrate on handling the pitching staff. Take some pressure off of him.

If they go with Soriano 1, Lee 3, and Ramirez 4, there’s no logical reason to believe they will win tonite, of course, logic doesn’t always reign.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 2:59 PM CDT   0 recs

you're crazy

there’s absolutely zero chance of this happening. Soriano is leadoff. Deal with it.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 4, 2008 3:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

one more thing

You’re saying that it’s illogical to think they will win with Soriano leadoff, D-Lee third, and A-Ram fourth? Really? Have you seen ANY games this year?

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 4, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, as a matter of fact, I've seen most of them

The “regular” lineup works fine against mediocre teams and mediocre pitching. It, however, doesn’t do well against pitchers who can locate their breaking ball on the outside corner. Soriano is a different player in the playoffs. I don’t know why, but he’s an automatic out against them right now. He absolutely needs protection in front of him and behind him.

I don’t know what is wrong with Lee, but he’s messed up right now. It we could turn back time and set this clock to June 1, I’d love that Derrick Lee to be batting third. That player, however, is not the one that’s on the roster right now. Maybe next year will be different, but right now, he’s at best a #7 hitter.

If you can’t see that this team needs a shakeup, then I’d question whether you’ve been watching the last two games objectively and judging how those players are playing right now. What happened in May, June, July, and August is irrelevant now.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 4:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you have any facts...

to back up your assertions that the regular lineup doesn’t work against good pitchers? No? OK then… you can go to recess now, child.

What happened during the regular season is NOT irrelevant right now. The 161-game regular season is a better barometer of this team’s ability than 2 terrible games in the postseason. Be smarter.

Oh, and one more thing… his name is Derrek, not Derrick. Jesus Christ almighty…

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 4, 2008 4:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, I do have facts

Look at the last two games. Look at what’s happening and see how they are attacking these batters. Derrik (Yes, that’s a tweak at you) Lee is not what he was a few months ago. The Cubs are being tactically ripped apart. These weaknesses are being exposed by a team that can execute against them. Listen, I know you don’t want to admit it, but what happened months ago is irrelevant.

It’s not just “bad luck” that’s beating this team, though that is surely helping out. It’s an effective, well executed plan.

If Piniella goes out with the same game plan, he’s going to get beat. Soriano at the top is an automatic out if the pitcher executes his pitches. Lee is a non-factor. If you’re waiting for a large sample size to prove that, well, you’re never going to get it because the Cubs will only play 3 games this playoff season.

Oh, and by the way, if you didn’t learn anything from last season, this is what Arizona did to the Cubs as well. You can pretend that everything’s fine if you want. I’m sure Torre is hoping that’s what Piniella does.

Go with Soriano 1, Lee 3, and Ramirez 4 and the Cubs will have to rely on luck to win because that is being effectively game planned against. .

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 5:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think I am being harsh

He made an assertion. I asked him to back it up with facts. He can’t.

Fact: The regular season is a better measure of a team’s strength than 2 postseason games.
Fact: Lou will bat Soriano leadoff, like he should at this point.
Fact: Lee’s first name is “Derrek.”

I just want people to be smarter when they’re making statements in an open forum like this.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 4, 2008 6:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Perseve?

"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." ~Arthur C. Clarke

by Goodie1969 on Oct 4, 2008 6:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol glad you caught that

Fat , drunk , and ,stupid is no way to go through life son.

by alabebo on Oct 4, 2008 6:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fact

The Cubs are down 2-0

Fact: The Cubs are 0-5 in playoff games when Soriano leads off

Fact: There is no correlation between the way a team plays in the playoffs and how it did during the regular season.

Fact: Derik Lee has not been an effective #3 hitter

Fact: The Cubs are losing because the Dodgers have an effective game plan and the Cubs weaknesses are being totally exposed.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 6:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So

How’d that lineup work out for ya?

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 5, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you're a total dick

shut the fuck up. asshole.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 6, 2008 4:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

furthermore...

This is not vindication that you were right about anything. You’re still wrong. The Cubs didn’t lose because they didn’t make a drastic change in their lineup. They lost because anything can happen in a short series, and it did. They lost because they played like a bunch of scared little leaguers. They lost because they couldn’t execute even the easiest of baseball fundamentals.

You’re worthless. Who would come back to a thread like this and take glee in a perceived Pyrrhic victory under these circumstance? Only a total asshole.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 6, 2008 4:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Making desperation moves = Defeat

This team has won 97 games this year. They need to buckle down and remember that. This team is quite capable of winning with the lineup they’ve had all season.

The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.

by sanantonecub on Oct 4, 2008 3:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree that we don't need to make desperation moves..

but it’s a desperation move to call someone crazy for making a suggestion. This should have been a reply to mambo rather than you SAC. It is what it is but no one who is a Cubs fan is crazy or else we all are.

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 4, 2008 3:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ha

That’s funny. Call someone out for making an insane lineup suggestion for Game 164, something that is completely different than what worked for the team for the entire regular season… and have someone tell me that I’m the one with the desperation move.

That’s rich.

On a board with no shortage of dumb commentators, you two win second prize.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 4, 2008 4:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is a blog;

people express their opinion; that’s what this is here for. Last time I checked you were not the manager of the Cubs. It is stupid to call someone crazy on a blog for expressing an opinion about a team that we all supposedly support. Sorry, mambo, you are the dumb commentator here. Enjoy the game.

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 4, 2008 5:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

right, I'm not the manager

And the manager, Lou, will bat Soriano leadoff, just like he has all season.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 4, 2008 6:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And

the Cubs will be coming home tonite.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 7:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Doing nothing and expecting different results

is the definition of insanity. I don’t know if it will work, but, right now, if you send out that same structured lineup, there’s no reason to believe they will win tonite. That doesn’t mean they won’t. It just means they will need a ton of luck. There’s a sickness in that lineup right now.

Doing nothing = defeat.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 4:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you don't know what you're talking about

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Oct 4, 2008 4:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They will do something different...

…if they want to win, and that is to have a mindset that will allow them to perform to their capabilities (which was clearly lost on them in the first two games). This isn’t a game a checkers where you try different moves because it didn’t work last game, we are talking about human beings, where a different attitude can give you completely different results.

Also, you never make desperation moves, even when your desperate.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 4, 2008 6:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I respect your baseball opinion

I’ve seen lots of what you write and you make tons of sense.

But in this case, I disagree. Yeah, it’s desperate, we both agree on that. I think now is exactly the time for a desperate move. I know you see what the Dodgers (and what AZ) did to the Cubs. The Cubs are playing horribly, but it’s not just them that is causing it. This is a pretty systematic destruction of the Cubs and the Cubs themselves are helping out. Sure, the Cubs might not help the Dodgers out tonite, but that won’t necessarily mean that they will be able to do anything against the game plan offensively which is completely apparent.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 7:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All they need to do...

…is approach the game the same way they did over the regular season and they had tremendous success. What will make that happen is their attitude, and not whole sale lineup adjustments.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 4, 2008 8:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Remember a couple years ago when Torre did the same with NY when they were losing to Detroit?

He put A-Rod in the sixth spot or something like that. Didn’t work.

I think changing things up now only reeks of desperation and it carries over into the team. Changing things drastically in Game 164 probably won’t work.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 4, 2008 4:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree.

Lou has already made some changes by putting LBR in the lineup.

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 5:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly

and since he was in the lineup most of September, that’s not a drastic move. Just a return to what worked late in the year.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 4, 2008 5:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's hope it still works.

Let's take three...starting today!!

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2008 5:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just takes one game to get right back in the series...

hopefully LBR will bring a relaxed offensive attitude to the lineup.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 4, 2008 5:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, let's hope that

fairies all come down and put $20 bills under our pillow tonite. Fontenot should help out, but is that really what you want to hang your hat on? Is Fontenot really going to impart Soriano with the ability to lay off a breaking ball well off the plate on the outside corner? how is Fontenot going to get Lee going?

I think that’s pathetic. Slow and steady loses a five game series when you’re down 0-2.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 5:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know what

requires more desperation than being down 2 games in a 5 game series with 3 left.

Let’s add on that they have an 8 game playoff losing streak, the last 5 of which are completely relevant to today.

It is desperation. The Cubs need desperate moves right now.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 5:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey I see you're point but I doubt that Lou will go to those extremes

Fat , drunk , and ,stupid is no way to go through life son.

by alabebo on Oct 4, 2008 6:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, I agree

I don’t think he will, at least not tonite, though I still maintain he should.

However, if they do in fact lose, it’s time (in fact past time) that Soriano must be moved down in the order. It’s my opinion that the proper spot for him is cleanup.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Oct 4, 2008 6:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My first post of the postseason.

I’ve been too upset to post. Tonight I’ve got confidence in Rich Harden. Not much to be said that hasn’t been already, so they just have to go out there, play baseball, actually HAVE FUN, quit pressing, stay loose, and they will win tonight’s game. It all starts with one, guys.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. - Dave Barry

by zm1217 on Oct 4, 2008 3:02 PM CDT   0 recs

Gosh, I just realized...

the team with the best record in baseball is down 2-0 having lost two games in a row at home to the AL WILDCARD team. What’s the world coming to? The team with the second best record, and best in the NL, is down 2-0 having lost two games at home to a team that would have been 10 games behind in the NL Central. What’s the world coming to? It’s just baseball. It sucks, but it’s baseball. We will see a good Rich Harden tonight and the season will continue to another day.

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 4, 2008 3:36 PM CDT   0 recs

its unpredictable

and kind of gives me some hope, at least one team is bound to come back this post season, why can’t it be the cubs?

"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."

by All The Way on Oct 4, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactamundo

there are not going to be 4 division series ending in 3 game sweeps. The White Sox and the Brewers are going to get swept but not the Angels or the Cubs. Lot’s of baseball left this fall for Chicago and not on the southside, although I have no feelings one way or the other about that other team.

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 4, 2008 3:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs