Alfonso Soriano's brutal post-season numbers.

by Fraggin Judge on Oct 5, 2008 11:31 PM CDT Comment 27 comments

I was just watching Mike Francesa's show on New York TV. Talking about baseball he showed these numbers about Alfonso Soriano. The following are Soriano's post-season numbers since he hit that epic HR against Curt Schilling in the 2001 World Series:

116 at bats, .181 batting average, 2 Home Runs, 11 RBI, and the tell-all: 5 walks and 38 K.

38 strikeouts!

As Al says, discuss amongst yourselves. To me, that is a very telling number.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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He doesn't like pressure =/

by Cubinator on Oct 6, 2008 12:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They knew this...

…when they signed him. They also knew he could get white hot for stretches and bitterly cold for even longer stretches. Not quite the guy you want igniting your offense at the top.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 12:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sammy-style baby!

by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano feeds off the weak.....

his numbers during the season are so amazing because he beats up on the lesser pitchers of the league while getting the occasional knock on a good pitcher. But once he hits front of the rotation starters who can find the holes in his swing……..he’s toast

by StlCUBBIE on Oct 6, 2008 12:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Do you have any evidence of this whatsoever.

I mean, at all. Any at all.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Oct 6, 2008 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano's numbers vs CC Sabathia are pretty good

Career
333 / .442 / .806 / 1.248 (43 PA, 36 AB, 5 HR, 7 RBI)

2008
364 / .417 / 1.091 / 1.508 (12 PA, 11 AB, 2 HR, 2 RBI)

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Oct 6, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cwyers...

…as much as Soriano’s indifference drives me crazy, I agree that I would like to see the evidence that Soriano feasts on 4-5 starters anymore than other top hitters.

Clearly, most guys will have better numbers against the lower tier starters for obvious reasons, but I would like to see this evidence that Soriano is any different than say Ramirez or Lee on the Cubs.

IMO, when Soriano gets on one of his hot streaks, the guy hits everything and everybody – fastballs, breaking balls, change ups and whatever else. In fact, I have never seen a player that can get so hot and so cold for extended periods.

The cold part of the equation is why you don’t want him setting the table in the leadoff spot. I know you only bat first once in a game, but you always hit in front of the 3,4 and 5 hitters which need consistant OBP at the top to drive in runs.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I do.......

outside of C.C. and Carpenter, Soriano hasn’t done much……

PA AB H HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
————————-———-—-—-————-—-—-——-——-——-——-—-
Roy Halladay 55 54 13 1 5 0 20 .241 .255 .352 .607
Derek Lowe 54 53 13 3 5 0 14 .245 .259 .453 .712
Barry Zito 43 39 5 0 4 4 14 .128 .209 .154 .363
Cole Hamels 27 26 5 3 4 1 6 .192 .222 .577 .799
Roy Oswalt 32 32 6 2 5 0 3 .188 .188 .375 .563

now compare to D.Lee’s more consistant approach

PA AB H HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
————————-———-—-—-————-—-—-——-——-——-——-
Cole Hamels 12 11 3 1 1 1 2 .273 .333 .364 .697
Barry Zito 12 10 5 1 2 2 1 .500 .583 .900 1.483
Derek Lowe 30 28 11 2 8 2 8 .393 .433 .536 .969
Roy Oswalt 54 49 15 3 8 5 13 .306 .370 .571 .941
Roy Halladay 6 5 3 0 0 1 1 .600 .667 1.200 1.867

I know some of Lee’s samples are small but i didn’t want to keep looking for comparisons

by StlCUBBIE on Oct 6, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

my bad......

when i posted it it was all organized and easy to read…….then it printed that, sorry

by StlCUBBIE on Oct 6, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um... every single one of those is a small sample.

So you’re comparing two players, and their numbers against five pitchers, less than 200 AB per, no accounting for league or park differences… yep, that’s about as far as you can get from actually studying the issue!

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Oct 6, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok......prove me wrong

If you look at their careers against pitchers you will see that Lee’s numbers against individual pitchers rarely stray from his career numbers while Sori’s on the other hand are either ungodly or minor league-esk……..

Good luck finding a player with over 200 ABs against any one pitcher…….

by StlCUBBIE on Oct 6, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hitting him leadoff is absurd

As I said in a thread a week or so ago, would the Phillies hit Pat Burrel leadoff? White Sox with Paul Konerko? Didn’t think so. He’s the same kind of hit or miss, or miss hitter. Belongs 6th or 7th. Move Lee down to 5th while you’re at it.

Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Oct 6, 2008 6:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Too Much Like No. 12 Dunston

For starters, I know Sori is a far better hitter than Dunston was. There are times Sori’s plate discipline looks as bad as Dunston’s was. Both of them could steal bases and throw the ball hard from their respective defensive positions. Dunston was a better shortstop than Soriano is a left fielder. Back in the day, Dunston was not a leadoff hitter for good reason. Sori shouldn’t be one, either. Sori is a rich man’s Shawon Dunston.

The Cubs have got to find a leadoff hitter. Maybe, that guy is in-house with Ryan Theriot. The Cubs could very well have to sign a free agent or trade for one. Sori has most definitely got to be moved down in the lineup.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 6, 2008 7:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not when you look at effort

Dunston’s defining trait (to me at least) was that he would sprint to first base every single time, regardless of where he hit the ball. He ALWAYS gave everything he had. Soriano on the other hand… well, we all know where he stands in the hustle/effort department.

by kanderber on Oct 6, 2008 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree on Effort

I liked Dunston more than Soriano. I can’t deny Soriano is a better player than Dunston was. There’s not as much difference in the player’s abilities as you might think. Dunston did give everything he had. Dunston was a more enjoyable player to watch, even though, he struck out on ground balls that hit in front of the plate way too much.

Soriano doesn’t command much respect with his approach to the game. Remember, the Cubs did win 1 playoff game with Dunston in 1989. The Cubs have yet to win any with Soriano.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 6, 2008 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunston...

…was awesome. Loved him. He gave the game 100% and he was a great team player also. I still wished they would have let him pitched an inning or two in blowouts. I would have liked to see how he had done. I had some old magazine from back in the day which talked about him throwing harder than Roger Clemens. It had a quote from Grace stating he wished he could use a catchers mitt also. lol.

by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops, Curve Balls Not Ground Balls

I meant he struck on curve balls that hit in front of the plate way too much.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 6, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano is a JOKE and now we are stuck with him...

He is an awful all around player, terrible in left field and he swings at everything…no patience at the plate and not a team player…its all about him and his stats…we knew this when signing him and why the hell would u sign somebody to that long of a deal at his age

by Btown on Oct 6, 2008 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Soriano is a hack prone to severe hot and cold streaks

Jim Hendry spent $136 million on a guy who puts up glitzy personal stats but disappears for weeks and does nothing in the post-season against good pitching. Plus he is hyper-sensitive on where he bats in the lineup and needs to be handled with kid gloves. Suffice to say the Soriano signing is a trainwreck. If Lou Piniella and Hendry had any balls they would stop the charade of Soriano being a leadoff hitter and move him into the 5th hole in the lineup where he best belongs. But they won’t do that because Soriano will pitch a fit and neither Lou or Hendry is willing to stand their ground. A case of the inmate running the asylum.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 6, 2008 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If Soriano is leading off next year...

…Lou should be fired on the spot (and I love Lou) and then the new owner should fire Hendry for signing him.

Now that that is out of the way, I don’t see anyway Lou leads him off again next year, I really don’t.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you are right. The thing is, for all his gaudy stats, he really has not led

a team to anything in the leadoff spot. So what have you got to lose? Move him down and deal with it. My guess is that he will pout and claim his lack of success is because he’s not in a comfortable spot in the order, but he will adjust. You can’t allow this situation to affect the team the way it has. It’s time to inject some sanity into this thing.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 6, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The time has come...

…and he will just have to deal with it.

Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cubs don’t explore trying to trade him this offseason. It will be a very difficult thing to do, but I would imaging they at least put out feelers. In the end, they will see how much dough they would have to eat, and that will be the end of that.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the management situation would

preclude from moving him. That is a huge contract and he has been really exposed since he arrived here. Maybe you can get the Yankees to take him back. Other than that, I think we may be stuck with him.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 6, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

…Who would have been a better alternative at the time? The Cubs where wanting to turn the team around immediately, and he did help with that tremendously. Who was the better alternative?

by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know what...

…I was ok with them signing him, because I thought for sure, they were going to bat him 3, 4 or 5 because of the type of hitter he was and especially after how poorly the Cubs performed at leadoff in 04, 05 and 06. I know they said he would leadoff, but I really thought that was BS.

Also, I was shocked at how many years they gave him and I think the rest of the league was as well. In fact, there was a person or two from other teams that said they thought the Cubs went way over the top to sign him.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eventually...

…he’ll have to migrate somewhere else in the lineup. If the Cubs would get a typical style leadoff man, and just stick Soriano in the number 5 spot, or wherever, he’ll eventually accept it. But really, I still don’t think the Cubs have a great alternative to put in leadoff. They could use a full time CF or RF… anybody leadoff men out there on the market this winter?

by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs