Cubs not built for a short series
According to Soriano, the Cubs were built for a marathon not a sprint and that is why they didn't perform in the playoffs. To me, this is one of the most self damning statements I have heard in a while. I guess with Soriano, if he plays in 10 games and has 2 great games in addtion to 8 horrendous games, he will have made his quota and be satisfied.
After committing yourself to 162 games and compiling the best record, there is absolutely no excuse to play like a club that looked like they were completely uninterested in being there when the playoff bell rung. I guess Soriano needs to pace himself, pick his own spots and not be pressured into performing on short notice in a playoff series. Maybe MLB can change the regular season to 120 games and then make the playoff rounds the best of 15, so Soriano can have a chance to get a few hits.
I hope this type of attitude pisses off Hendry, Piniella and his teamates as much as it does me, and it also reiterates the club needs some grittiness in the clubhouse.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
0 recs |
39 comments
Comments
Agreed.
I think most of us felt this Cubs team WAS built for a short series, with (supposedly) dominating starters and a solid bullpen.
If they can trade this attitude away, I’d be all for that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Oct 6, 2008 8:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let me put it this way...
…winners are built for any length of series (5 or 7), because winners are geared towards being mentally ready to be at their best at the most important times.
If you can’t get yourself in the right mind frame for the playoffs, you got some problems.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, maybe I'm dense...
But I just don’t see the difference here…
One of the hallmarks of baseball is that teams try to win series. LaRussa is big on that. Just win two of three, and you’re a 100-win team. Teams strive to do that.
I really don’t see how three of five or four of seven is all that different. I really don’t get the whining about short series.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Oct 6, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is the #3-5 starters...
For example, take the 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks. They are the classic example of a team that was built for the postseason and not the regular season. They had the two best pitchers in the NL (if not in all of baseball – I can’t remember if Pedro was still unreal Pedro that year), but they also had a terrible back end of the rotation.
In a short series, you can hide those guys at the back end and rely heavily on the big guns. In the regular season, you have to throw all of those crappy starters.
Of course, very few teams are really built that way. Most teams that are built for the regular season are also built for the postseason, because it’s rare that you can have such extremes.
In the case of the Cubs, we were definitely built for both.
by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1987 Minnesota Twins
The 1987 Twins had Frank Viola and Bert Blyleven as their top two starters. The rest of the starters in the rotation were Les Straker, Mike Smithson, and an over-the-hill Joe Niekro.
The Twins upset the Tigers in the ALCS and upset the Cardinals in the World Series.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 6, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup...
another good example. Those type of examples are the exception, but they do exist. More typically a team that is built for the postseason is also built for the regular season.
by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Twins also had...
One of the better homefield advantages in baseball and one of the all-time great clutch guys in Kirby Puckett.
Find me the Cubs’ Kirby Puckett. He doesn’t exist.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Oct 6, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Clutch Guy, Home Field Not Factor
The Cubs don’t have a Kirby Puckett type clutch guy. The closest player to that is Mark DeRosa. DeRo isn’t exactly what Kirby Puckett was. I was surprised to see the Cubs lose both games at Wrigley because the Cubs were 55-26 at home. That home field advantage did not turn out to mean much.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 6, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Puckett actually wasn't much of a factor outside of Game 6...
in Games 1-5, Puckett was 4-20 and 6-24 in Games 1-5 and Game 7. Overall, he was 10-28 with just one extra-base hit thanks to a 4-4 night in Game 6. He wasn’t a world-beater in the 1987 Series. I think you’re confusing things with the 1991 World Series against the Braves, in which he had his heroic moments. But that 1987 Twins team just gota lot of balanced production in the World Series.
by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
kind of ironic coming from the guy with 2 trips to the DL this year.
my stuff is filthy
by carlos marmol on Oct 6, 2008 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That was a ridiculous comment by Soriano...
As soon as we got Harden, all the talk was about how this team was PERFECTLY geared for a short series (or longer series). We had (theoretically) three top-tier starters. We had good defense. We had plenty of power hitters throughout the order. We had a great back end of the bullpen.
No, what this team seemed to lack was the ability to perform under the pressure of the playoffs. Soriano was a big part of that. So was Dempster. But this team was very much designed, in principal, for a short series. When your big three starters all get beat, though, you lose. And when your two biggest bats don’t show up, you lose.
by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll add...
“And when your defense fails” to your last train of thoughts.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Oct 6, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a link to this?
It’d be interesting to read.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Oct 6, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
excuses, excuses
These comments confuse me immensely. Is he trying to blame the pitching? Obviously Dempster blew it in the first game, but that doesn’t let Fonzy and the rest of the offense off the hook for the next 2 games. How can a club be built from the offensive end for a short series? I don’t think it can.
To me, his comments are a weak attempt at making excuses for why he stunk so badly. This team was built for a short series (i.e. dominant starting pitching). This team consistently won 3 games series all year, so not to be able to win a 5 game series is ridiculous.
by polly on Oct 6, 2008 9:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The more I think about it...
…the more it pisses me off and all this coming from your $136 million dollar man.
It also bothered me that Hendry mentioned the “short series” thing a couple times when he was interviewed after the game. Why even use that term? Did the club not know it was the first team to win 3 games wins? Just say the obvious; the Dodgers were more ready to play than we were and it showed on the field – end of story.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen...
I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why 3 of 5 is so drastically different than 4 of 7.
If the NLDS was a 7-game series, it just would have prolonged our agony one more day. The series would have been over on Sunday instead of Saturday.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Oct 6, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano
What he doesn’t understand about his comments, which have a real shred of truth, is that the reason he’s not built for a short series is because in a short series, you face #1 and #2 starters. Soriano makes his money hitting 3-5 starters and crappy middle relievers. This is why his career playoff stats (and frankly Aramis’s playoff stats) suck.
by dmlichte on Oct 6, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That could be true...
…but as I mentioned in another thread, I would like to see comparisons of Soriano’s numbers against 1 and 2 starters as a comparison to other hitters that produce similar numbers as he.
You may be right, but I have yet to see any evidence Soriano hits top starters any differently than other hitters. After all, top starters are top starters for a reason.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one thing you can't pickup during the trade deadline
intestinal fortitude.
ok i just wanted to say “intestinal fortitude.”
(GUTS)
my stuff is filthy
by carlos marmol on Oct 6, 2008 10:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why can't you...
…it just depends on who you pick up, doesn’t it?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honest question...how would you do that?
Acquire parts from past championship teams?
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Oct 6, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't have to be a championship....
…team, but that doesn’t hurt.
The important thing is the personality of players you would add and whether they are the type that would interject life into your team. You don’t need players to flash rings to do this (Lee already has a ring, but he is not cut out to get in guys faces), you need guys who speak up at the right time and most importantly, play hard on the field.
The was an article in the Trib yesterday about the 03 club. I think we would all agree that the 03 team was not as talented on paper as 08, but they performed in the playoffs at a much higher level. The article noted a few guys – Eric Karros, Gruds and Randall Simon. Each guy brought something a little different to the table. Both Gruds and Karros would let players know when they needed to do something differently and Simon was a free spirit who just didn’t give a shit about anything, and the dude got some real clutch hits. Lastly, that team also had Lofton, who was a proven playoff player and set that example on the field.
This team just appears to not be a self-starter. They won a lot of games during the regular season because they had deep talent. In the playoffs, the slate is clean and the stakes have been risen, and it takes a certain mentality to thrive in that atmosphere. I think its pretty clear, the team as it is made up, is missing an important emotional component.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you brought up Loften
I wished the Cubs would have never let him go several years ago… plus, I wished they would have at least given the guy a tryout in the spring. If you look at his stats from last year, I think he still had something left to offer… Ah well. I think he would have been worth an invitation, especially since he still wanted to play.
by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
I think he would have been a much better deal than Fukudome. Would have been less money, and fewer years.
by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if Karros/Simon did this
But here are the stats for the 2003 NLDS
Leadoff — Lofton – 6-21 .286/.348 3 SB 3 runs
Three Hitter – Sosa — 3-16 .188/.409 6 BB (remember how feared he was?) and 1 RBi
Four Hitter – Alou – 10-20 .500/.524 3 RBI
Five Hitter – Ramirez 5-18 .278/.350 3 RBI
Except for Alou, it’s pretty pedestrian. But compared to the current crowd? WOW!
Ramirez and Alou’s 3 RBI tied for the team lead in the series. Karros and Simon had 2 each, as did the immortal Tom Goodwin. Kerry Wood also had 2 RBI
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Oct 6, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and that how you win...
All of it together is around 18-20 runs. Which is what, 3 times more than what this team did?
Ah well… this team could have done that, they just forgot how to play their style of baseball.
by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
..
i think it’s a team wide thing. unless you have mikey lowell or someone of that gangsteresque win on one-leg caliber.
my stuff is filthy
by carlos marmol on Oct 6, 2008 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Philosophy of "Mr. October"
It just seems that Soriano has that belief that for a team to win in the playoffs, they have to have a Reggie Jackson (Mr. October) style of player to step up and carry the team upon their shoulders. I like Soriano, but that is a shallow view of Major League Baseball. I still don’t think the Cubs needed anything in the playoffs, but to remember their how they played their style of baseball. It all came down to their lack of self-confidence and patience, but they needed both to play their style of baseball… which is to take pitches, walk, get people on base, etc…
That style totally contradicts the Mr. October style, home run, home run, etc…
I think it just boils down that they forget who they are. What they needed was somebody who could kick them in the pants and remind them who they were.
Or course, having a Reggie Jackson style of player wouldn’t have hurt either… but they didn’t need it.
by TheHawkRules on Oct 6, 2008 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
...
i was counting on soto to step up… he had that solo shot against AZ last year that showed promise.
he was just as reckless. 3-11 w/ 3K’s
the team went from a league leader in walks to a 26-6 K to BB ratio.
it’s just unsettling.
my stuff is filthy
by carlos marmol on Oct 6, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Anti-Mr. October
With the Cubs, Sori is 3 for 28, with 1 walk and 8 K’s. During the season, you can have the guess-hitting hack up at the leadoff position because he will hit some dingers and with our current club, we had enough boppers and hitters to compensate. Out 7-8-9 guys did a hell of a job.
One stat that blew me away was that Sori and ZERO triples this year. NONE! Even Z had at least one. Yes, he did have some leg issues, but my Lord, give me a break. If we get to the playoffs next year, you HAVE to leave him off the postseason roster.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Oct 6, 2008 11:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Soriano was talking about himself, as always.
He is the one not built for October.
by Fraggin Judge on Oct 6, 2008 11:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i have the solution
platoon big z and derosa in right and let fontenot play 2nd. except when z is pitching then derosa and 2nd and fontenot in right.
fontenot and z both batting 500 in postseason.
oh yeah!
my stuff is filthy
by carlos marmol on Oct 6, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is B.S...
The Cubs were built to win, period. I don’t care if it’s over a 162 game season, a postseason, whatever. They go into Milwaukee for a crucial 4 game series, they face C.C. and Sheets, and they sweep. Wasn’t that a short series against Aces? The players just buckled under the pressure, especially Sori.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Oct 6, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
More excuses. They’re just like assholes. Everybody has one and they all stink.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 6, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Lunacy. Loser talk. And lunacy."
Love it.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Oct 6, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano in the post-season...
Soriano is taking a lot of heat and, obviously, the comments he made justify some of it. Also, people like to point to his post-season numbers and recent performance as evidence that he does not possess the mystical qualities of a “clutch player”.
I too have looked at his post-season performance and, on balance, it’s pretty bad. He’s put up a .213/.263/.299 line. But rather than just leaving it at that, I also looked at the game logs and I noticed something very odd…
…he has come through in some huge situations. He had a walk-off homer in Game 4 of the 2001 ALCS, which gave the Yankees a 3-1 lead in that series. In that year’s World Series, he again had a walk-off hit, in Game 5, giving the Yankees a 3-2 lead. After that, he hit the go-ahead homer in Game 7, on the road, in the 8th inning, off Curt Schilling. Of course, the Yankees wound up losing that game but it was Fonzie that had put them in a position to win.
So what do those examples show us? Not much, IMO. He’s come through in the past and he’s also had some real ugly at-bats, as we well know. I just think we should hesitate before completely dismissing a player based on six games or an ill-considered comment.
"Some people will look at a glass of water and say it's half-empty, while another guy will look at it and say it's half-full. A Cubs fan looks at the same glass and asks, "When's it gonna spill?" - Mike Royko
by LaddieRenfroe on Oct 6, 2008 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by 




















