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2008 Regular Season Hitters Review

in a year where our backup C hit nearly as well as our All-Star RF, we also saw a rookie of the year campaign from Geovany Soto, a step backwards from Derrek Lee, a breakout from Mike Fontenot, a remarkable all-OBP, no-SLG performance from Ryan Theriot, a lot more patience from Aramis Ramirez, the revival of Jim Edmonds, and the career year of Mark DeRosa.  Who was the season's hitter MVP?  Can you guess who was least likely to make an out in 2008?

Star-divide

For players with over 100 Plate Appearances (PA) as a Cub in 2008, Runs per PA = R%, Runs Batted In per PA = RBI%, Outs made (At bats-Hits+Caught Stealings+Sacrifices+Double Plays) per PA = Outs%

H. Blanco .292/.320/.392, R% 11.7%, RBI% 9.4%, Outs% 71.1%

D. Ward .216/.319/.402, R% 6.7%, RBI% 14.3%, Outs% 69.7%

D. Lee .291/.361/.462, R% 13.3%, RBI% 12.9%, Outs% 67.5%

R. Cedeno .269/.326/.352, R% 15.3%, RBI% 11.9%, Outs% 67.4%

A. Soriano .280/.344/.532, R% 15.1%, RBI% 14.9%, Outs% 66.8%

R. Johnson .303/.353/.420, R% 13.9%, RBI% 13.4%, Outs% 65.0%

K. Fukudome .257/.358/.379, R% 13.4%, RBI% 9.8%, Outs% 64.9%

G. Soto .285/.364/.504, R% 11.7%, RBI% 15.3%, Outs% 64.7%

J. Edmonds .256/.369/.568, R% 15.8%, RBI% 16.4%, Outs% 64.4%

R. Theriot .307/.384/.359, R% 12.9%, RBI% 5.7%, Outs% 64.0%

A. Ramirez .289/.380/.518, R% 15.0%, RBI% 17.2%, Outs% 63.9%

M. DeRosa .285/.374/.481, R% 17.5%, RBI% 14.7%, Outs% 63.2%

M. Fontenot .305/.391/.514, R% 14.8%, RBI% 14.1%, Outs% 59.9%

Some reflections on the regular season performances:

Derrek Lee had a bad year by his own standards.  Comparing it to his FL years doesn't cut it because he hit in one of the hardest ballparks to hit.  He has had two years like this before, though - 2001 & 2006.  Each year was followsed by excellent years.  He's 33 now and it's going to be a tough question for the Cubs about whether or not to bet on another excellent bounce-back year, or to consider trading Lee in a market where a lot of people are hoping to buy 1B.

Mike Fontenot was Chase Utley.  He had a little higher OBP and a little lower SLG in about half of Utley's plate appearances.  Sure, you're right to question Fontenot's ability to do it on an everyday basis, but when the Cubs look (again) to add a power left-handed bat, you have to wonder if that bat isn't already here.  Question for BCB - which 2B would you expect to hit better in 2009 - Fontenot, DeRosa, or Theriot?

For all the talk about DeRosa having a career year (which it probably was), it was not batting average driven like most career years.  DeRosa's walks are up now three years in a row, since he became a regular.  Sure, DeRosa isn't likely to have as much power next year, but DeRosa is also not likely to create a lot of Outs and that makes him part of the answer.

This is an Absolute and Utter MYTH:  "Ryan Theriot is an igniter, a sparkplug, a guy who gets the offense going."  The reality is that only Geovany Soto had a lower R% (hitting much lower in the lineup) among the regulars and the only thing smaller and uglier than Theriot's RBI% is his soul patch.  Look.  Theriot got on base, and that shouldn't be minimized.  He was the 4th least likely to make an out.  That's an achievement.  But he wasn't a sparkplug.  All too often, with his GIDPs and CSs, he was the opposite of a sparkplug.

Aramis Ramirez added patience this year to his game.  His AVG was down a bit, but AVG is going to fluxuate.  If he can keep this new patience while watching his AVG bounce back, he may yet have that MVP year.

Ronny Cedeno had a decent year all things considered.  His splits continue to be backwards, with him hitting right handers and flailing at left handers.  Lou played him mostly against left handers.

Geovany Soto is the bright face of a Cubs future, the unexpected fruit of the farm system which could extend the Cubs playoff window despite the backloaded contracts of other veterans.  On the other hand, it will be a huge tragedy if Soto's Cub career is cut short precisely because of those contracts taking hikes just as Soto's cheap years come to an end.  Something to keep in mind as we watch for who the new owner is.

Jim Edmonds was a huge success for the Cubs, but you can't ignore that he was an even bigger flop for the Padres.  The totality of his season draws a pretty steady line down for the past three years.  Deciding whether or not to re-sign Edmonds will be something the Cubs will have to think long and hard about.

Poll
2008 Season's Hitting MVP:
Mark DeRosa
43 votes
Jim Edmonds
7 votes
Mike Fontenot
4 votes
Kosuke Fukudome
2 votes
Reed Johnson
5 votes
Derrek Lee
0 votes
Aramis Ramirez
58 votes
Alfonso Soriano
4 votes
Geovany Soto
35 votes
Ryan Theriot
10 votes

168 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

5 recs | Comment 184 comments

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Solid Piece.

For the most part, I agree with everything you posted. Something to add about Lee. You can’t really draw anything from his 2006 performance, as it should be a scratch. Could 2006’s injury be the reason for his lesser play this year? Absolutely, but his numbers that year shouldn’t be a reference point. Also, while I can’t find any information about Lee’s GB and FB numbers from 2001, I doubt he was as much of BG hitter back then than he is now. He is hitting the same number of liners now as he has throughout his career, but he has taken a significant number of fly balls and turned them into grounders. His HR/FB is at an all-time low. Sadly, all things point to an even worse year next year. Nothing reinforces these observations like checking out his month by month numbers. Outside of his hot April, his highest SLG was .442, with a Theriot-like .376 in August. Thats horrendous.

by dakoose on Oct 6, 2008 12:43 PM CDT   0 recs

perhaps DLee should be moved to the 2nd spot in the line up...

due to his decreasing SLG…. let Ramierz, and Soto back him up in the 3-4 spots… thoughts?

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 6, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If anything, I'd say he should move to the leadoff spot...

I think he’s a bad fit for the #2 spot, because he doesn’t hit the ball the other way and he has a tendancy to fall prey to the GIDP. I’m not saying he’d be a great leadoff man, but I think he’d be a better fit there than in the #2 spot. At least at the leadoff spot he can take advantage of his patience and his decent OBP.

Ideally, though, I’d say he’s better suited to be a #5-6 hitter, where he can still be productive but is not relied upon to lead the team offensively.

by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 1:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder how Lee would take it

if the Cubs told him to dust off his base-stealing skills from yesteryore and prepare in the winter to be their lead-off man. There are worse lineup decisions that could be made.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 6, 2008 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It would be interesting...

Of course, the trick would be finding a suitable replacement for Lee in the #3 spot (I don’t think it’s Soriano) and finding a place for Soriano (perhaps the #5 or #6 spot?).

by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 3:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd put Soriano 3rd if we're moving him.

Low-OBP, High-SLG, low GIDP guy like Soriano works for me in the 3rd lineup slot.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 6, 2008 3:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

how bout this

2.Lee
3. Ramirez
4. Soriano
5. Soto

by philadelphiacub on Oct 6, 2008 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Soriano's sandwiched between two of our slowest runners there.

I’m thinking,
Lee 1B
Fonty/Riot 2B platoon
Soriano LF
Ramirez 3B
Soto C
LeftyTBNL

But see, however you start writing this lineup, you run into the problem that most of our LH batters (Pie, Dome, and Fonty if you think speed must bat 1/2) belong at the bottom of the lineup and most of our RH batters belong in the middle, and that’s something that I think bothers Lou and Jim quite a bit.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 6, 2008 4:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You want to trade DeRo?

Could you get a LHB MI with similar production?

Lou probably thinks so; despite DeRo’s OBP skills, he consistently bats him as low in the order as possible.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 8, 2008 4:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think one of Lee/DeRo/Sori/Aramis has a decent chance of being traded, because of the perceived overload of RHBs.

And of that quartet, DeRosa will be the easiest to unload. I think if we traded DeRosa and played Fontenot and Theriot as a 2B platoon, we could approach the 2009 DeRosa with much, much less power against LHPs.

Personally, I’d keep DeRosa and trade one of the others. I think DeRosa is part of the solution.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 8, 2008 7:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree that one of the RHBs (other than Soto) will be traded,

if for no other reason than to provide Lou with a scapegoat for the playoff failure. I also agree that DeRo would be the easiest of the four to trade.

Questions:
1. If the Cubs get TNO or Figgins (who can’t play SS passably), what happens to LBR? Your platoon would be a great idea if they can sign Furcal.

2. If the Cubs get one of Furcal/TNO/Figgins (and unload DeRo), how does it help? It gives you a SH at leadoff, but the middle of the order is (in some order) Lee/Ramy/Sori/Soto — all RHBs. Even if Dome is starting, he isn’t a middle-of-the-order guy. You would have to sign Ibañez or Dunn for RF (Dome in CF) or re-sign Edmonds to have a LHB in the middle of the order.

3. Would you be willing to trade Ramy for Figgins + Matthews (and cash) + RP or prospect? The Angels covet power at 3B, and Lou covets Figgins. Matthews is a pretty good CF (though overpriced) with some power and is a SH.

4. Would you be willing to dump Lee and sign Dunn or Giambi (both LHBs with leather allergies) for 1B if Tex signs elsewhere? That would give you LH power, but would hurt the defense and cost a lot of money.

5. Would you be willing to trade Lilly (and possibly DeRo) for Robinson Canó?

6. Could you stomach a full season of watching Dunn in the OF? Darlye Ward is a better RF than Dunn. Ibañez makes DeRo look like a GG RF.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 8, 2008 11:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

#3

made me vomit in my mouth

trade your best player who happens to be the 2nd youngest (although granted that’s not saying much) of your core

for not one but TWO below average offensive players and a RP or prospect….. that’s a quick way to get a whole lot worse

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 8:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree, I only put that out there

because Lou loves Figgins (I’m not sure why, he can’t play defense anywhere), and I think that is what the Angels would demand.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 9, 2008 4:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Answers

1) I don’t think the Cubs will mind if they block both Cajuns by getting what they perceive to be improvements, especially if those other players are lead-off men. I could be wrong about Theriot – they may see him as a a no-matter-what starter. All in all, I think Fontenot will only be traded if someone overpays for him.

2) Exactly – it seems like the Cubs may be right back where they were last off-season, seeking two LH bats, one to lead-off and one to get in the middle of that order. I’m wondering if that view is short-sighted and the Cubs might just use an unconventional lead-off hitter in either Lee or Dome.

3) Matthews was bad in 2007 and worse in 2008. Figgins was not as good as Theriot this past year. I’d consider trading Ramirez to the Angels, but for different players. I’d rather try and trade them Soriano or Lee.

4) I don’t think we have to “dump” Lee. When Kyle Lohse just got what he did, Lee’s contract doesn’t look bad. He has a good reputation and reason for hope that this was just a down year. If we did move Lee, I’d consider moving Aramis to 1B and DeRosa to 3B. Then at the trade dealine we have the flexibility to trade for a bat at either corner IF spot and the option to move DeRosa back to 2B is Theriot/Fontenot flop.

5) I’ve never been a huge believer in Cano, but the Cubs should probably consider doing that deal, assuming everyone else is right about Cano. Lilly can’t, just can’t pitch over 200 innings three years in a row.

6) I’m not a big Ibanez fan. Dunn is another thing. He brings exactly what the Cubs’ lineup needs. He’s young for an emerging free agent. I’d stick him in LF, though, and move Soriano to RF or beyond.

Here’s a question back to you – who do you expect to have better triple slash stats in 2009 – Mark DeRosa or Derrek Lee?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 9:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Better 2009 OPS...

(the following is based on the assumption that both are still Cubs in 2009)

DeRo will have a better OPS than DLee, if:
1. He plays every day. (I put that disclaimer in because Lou always seems to want to bench or replace him no matter what he does.)
2. He can settle in at one position for reasonable periods of time. (i.e., not shuffling between OF and IF to create a platoon for LBR and RJ). Constant shuffling (and extra infield work) takes a toll on stamina.
3. He does not consistently bat #8.

I honestly don’t think that DLee will have a significantly better 2009 than 2008 unless he makes major changes to his swing.

The reason that DeRo’s power has gone up is that teams are pounding him inside, because he has clearly demonstrated that he can plug the RCF gap with outer-third fastballs all day long. He hit more GBs this year (getting out too quick and rolling over the top more) which hurt his BA, but a much larger percentage of his FBs went yard because it is easier to pull inside pitches and go yard with them. If he batted #2, I suspect that he would see more outside pitches (especially with Sori on), and would go back to using RCF — more 2Bs, fewer HRs.

Here’s an unconventional proposal, assuming that the Cubs don’t get Furcal/Figgins/TNO…

Bat DeRo in the leadoff spot.
Pros:
1. He hits for a higher average (and OBP) when leading off innings.
2. He knows how to work a pitcher and draw walks.
3. He is a good baserunner.
4. He is fast enough to not clog the bases.
5. He has enough power threat to create some instant offense through XBHs (mini-Sori).
6. He will be less likely to overswing; he sometimes presses in RBI spots, especially when the “big guys” are slumping or injured.
7. Sori can bat down in the order.
8. He has some experience there (Bobby Cox used him there when Furcal was injured), and he has said he likes batting leadoff.

Cons:
1. He isn’t a great base stealer, though I think he could get 10-12 with a good percentage.
2. It doesn’t change the number of RHBs in the middle of the order.
3. Riot won’t see as many fastballs as he would with Sori on 1B.
4. It might make DLee GIDP more, since he is more likely to be on 1B than Sori.

As for #4 above, you might as well leave Ramy at 3B and play DeRo at 1B (even though he hates playing 1B). Since most teams carry a backup 1B/PH, all you have to do is insert that player (Ward? Hoff?) and move DeRo wherever.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 9, 2008 4:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

given the history of the two players

i think you’re taking the longshot in DLee vs. DeRo in terms of OPS.

considering ya know, its happened ONCE in the last 8 years

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 6:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed...

I think it’s a BIG gamble to say that DeRosa will outdo Lee next year. They’re basically the same age (Lee’s a bit younger actually), and as you said it’s the first time DeRosa has out-OPSed Lee in recent memory.

Of course, DeRosa will cost $8-9 million less than Lee. Not to say Lee will be great next year, but I’d expect Lee to outproduce DeRosa.

by SouthernCub on Oct 9, 2008 6:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Here's how we have to do the math, I think...

It’s precisely because Lee is expected to hit more than DeRosa that we might be able to get more in a trade for Lee than DeRosa. So…

Which is greater
Lee – 7.5 M + whatever we get for DeRosa
or
DeRosa + whatever we get for Lee + the option of upgrading 1B, 3B, or 2B at the 2009 trade deadline + the near certainty of Type A draft picks for DeRosa if we play him at 2B half of 2009.

Is Lee’s OPS going to be that much better than DeRosa’s?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 6:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't know that salary difference will play in..

as I’m sure we’d have to take back as much if not more to actually upgrade anywhere else, and we’d probably have to take on salary in whatever trade Lee would be involved in.

by SouthernCub on Oct 9, 2008 7:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I love longshots.. :-)

My opinion is predicated on the fact that DeRo still seems to be improving (he used to get killed on the inner third, and he now handles that well), he will probably be physically better next year since he will have a full winter to work on his stamina (previously a weakness) without the heart defect that hampered him, he doesn’t have as much “baseball mileage” as most other 33 year olds (thanks to his bench-warming days, and the fact that I think that DLee has lost some bat-speed, and has too many moving parts in his current swing to adjust.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 9, 2008 7:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not saying it's not possible...

Just saying I wouldn’t bet on it. :)

What you say is certainly possible. I just have more faith that Lee will go back and work on his swing and bounce back, whereas I don’t think DeRosa has much room for improvement. Stamina wasn’t a problem this year for DeRosa (he was better in the second half than the first half).

But, it’s certainly possible that Lee won’t bounce back.

by SouthernCub on Oct 9, 2008 7:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

just wanted to say

regardless of our opinions, I enjoy conversing with both of you.

Its funny I’ve actually found the majority of the board to be much more reasonable and open to outside opinions since the season ended than at any other point

its one of the reasons i’ve been around more of late (and probably some psychological issues i have of not wanting to let go of this cubs team), and I can thank you along with a number of others for sharing opinions and being open to others

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 9:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

should say all 3

with SouthernCub joining the discussion as well

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 9:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm definitely enjoying the conversation and respect your view -

Thanks.

It’s funny. Looking at the off-season options nothing jumps out at me as being a “perfect fit,” you know, in the way we all thought Fukudome would be. Heh.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 10:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

it’s nice having reasonable discussion about these things.

by SouthernCub on Oct 10, 2008 10:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Unorthodox leadoff hitters

Which of these three would you install as an unorthodox leadoff for the Cubs if you had to choose one – Lee, DeRosa, or Dome? I think I would choose Lee because remaking him as a lead-off hitter may be precisely what has to happen to remake his swing. Tell him to start going the other way and get his legs in shape to run again.

Would you really play Ramirez at 3B and DeRo at 1B? I think I might flip those, because much of what makes Ramirez a good 3B would work at 1B. I’m more comfortable with DeRosa’s 3B arm than Ramirez’s minus DLee.

All that said, I think the Cubs could do a lot worse than DeRosa at leadoff. I just don’t think Lou would consider it.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 7:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree on these points

While I think any of those three could be adequate (if not good) in the role, I don’t think Lee, DeRosa, or Fukudome will be tried at leadoff with the Cubs. I’m still not sold that Lee can’t rework his swing in the offseason, though, and remain a productive power hitter. I don’t think he’ll be a .950+ OPS guy ever again, but maybe an .875-.900 guy again. I think Fukudome would make the most sense as a leadoff hitter, but it would seem that he also needs to rework his swing.

But ultimately I think that the only way we have a new leadoff man is if we acquire one from outside the organization or if Soriano sustains a major injury. We had several suitable leadoff options throughout the year (Theriot, Lee, Fukudome) and yet Soriano remained the choice.

by SouthernCub on Oct 9, 2008 7:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just an aside here

In a year where the end finds us all saying that a third of the Cubs once successful veterans all need to rework their swings – why do we believe Piniella/Perry when they say Pie’s swing wouldn’t work at the majors? They couldn’t help Dome make adjustments. They couldn’t help Lee make adjustments. Anyway.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 7:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're asking the wrong guy on that one...

I just hope that all three are able to be productive next year one way or the other.

by SouthernCub on Oct 9, 2008 7:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not a big fan of Gerald Perry as a hitting coach,

but his job becomes impossible when Lou (who should be busy with other things like figuring out how to bat higher OPS guys higher in the lineup) sticks his nose in periodically and tries to change things. In any pursuit from baseball to golf to piano, one coach is good, but two is one too many.

I think that Pie should have been given 150 ABs at the beginning of the season — sink or swim — but we all know that Lou buries guys he doesn’t like (see Eyre, Scott) and never gives them chances to prove themselves.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 9, 2008 7:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I gotta tell ya...

…determing how good a job a hitting coach is doing, is one of the hardest thing in all of baseball. The reason is this; a lot of hitters listen politely to the hitting coach and then they just ignore what they say. With a lot of guys, trying to change their approach can be a very difficult thing.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 10:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Questions...

…and it really comes down to two things:

-not getting hung up on names and just be concerned about what would make the club better

-how much money will Hendry have to spend? Shortly after the organizational meetings, he will probably have a pretty good idea.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 1:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

#4 & #5

Take it from a NY fan the Cubs do not want Giambi or Cano.

by NYCUB FAN on Oct 9, 2008 7:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I still want OBP from my #3 hitter...

thus, I’d rather see Soriano in a #5 slot. That way, he can hit for power and still be a base stealing threat in front of the bottom part of the order (which has less power).

The trick would be finding that LH hitting guy with decent power and good OBP to fill the #3 or #4 spot.

by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 4:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree...

…OBP is important in this spot to get on base for number 4, but also to keep that first inning going.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 6, 2008 4:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The trick would be finding that LH hitting guy with decent power and good OBP to fill the #3 or #4 spot.

The eternal quest continues.

(Has there been a good one of these on the Cubs since Billy Williams?)

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 7, 2008 7:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If only Z could be taught to take a walk...

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 7, 2008 9:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Soriano is not

suited to the 3/4 spot. He has streaks where he is devastating, but he can also hide for months. The 3/4 have to be consistantly good to keep the offense humming along.

I’m buying into Soriano being a mediocre hitter. A guy with great stats that feasts on the 3/4/5 starters and poorer relievers, but can be subdued by good pitching.

He needs a spot where he can mash when it’s working, but hide when not.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 6, 2008 4:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm only partially buying that

I mean he’s hitting like 450 something career vs. CC in a substantial # of AB’s. I think it has less to do neccesarily with the quality of the pitcher and more to do with the pressure of the situation. Some mediocre pitchers have made him look bad in high pressure situations

by philadelphiacub on Oct 6, 2008 4:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's one great pitcher.

Perhaps CC can’t hit the spots with the pitches Soriano can’t hit.

I see that he struggles with the slider that starts up in the zone and falls away just outside. This is in the playoffs against consistently good pitching.

Perhaps also those mediocre pitchers can throw that pitch.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 6, 2008 4:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Or just moved.

If possible.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 6, 2008 1:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good luck finding the replacement...

I doubt we’ll be in contention for the only guy free agent who is likely to be an upgrade over Lee (Teixeira).

by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 1:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Big Donkey

can play first, Adam Dunn

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 6, 2008 1:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would not trust Adam Dunn

to pick throws out of the dirt from our left side of the infield.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 6, 2008 3:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

I think Dunn is a wonderfully productive offensive player, but he really doesn’t fit with this team. If we had a stellar defensive infield or a spot open in LF, I’d be all for going after Dunn. But not with the team as is.

by SouthernCub on Oct 6, 2008 3:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep.

Any Dunn to the Cubs scenario has to start with the crazy fantasy-like dream of something like this….
The Cubs trade Alfonso Soriano and Kosuke Fukudome as the posting fee for Yu Darvish… and we don’t have to pay any of their contracts! Yippee!

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 6, 2008 3:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's not necessarily true.

Soriano’s arm would still play in RF. You can move him to right, put Dunn in left, and put the Pie/Dome/Edmonds/Johnson Pau-Pau Platter in center without sacrificing too much on defense.

This same scenario would also apply if the powers that be decided they wanted to sign Manny.

by sitrick2 on Oct 6, 2008 10:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Soriano would be a train wreck in right field.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 7, 2008 9:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Oct 8, 2008 8:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Another thing with Dunn

He’s a .225 hitter with RISP. We’ve just spent a week hand-wringing over the Cubs’ lack of hitting with men in scoring position. Dunn would exacerbate the problem.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 6, 2008 5:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Batting average is stupid.

Dunn rarely makes an out and hits 40 bombs a year. You don’t have to be clutch when your OBP hovers around .400 all the time.

This doesn’t even begin to address the fact that Dunn consistently MASHES at Wrigley. He’d hit 50+ homers if he played half his games at Wrigley. When you’re hitting the long ball that much, you don’t have to be clutch.

Ask yourself this question: Would I be happy with Ryan Howard as my cleanup hitter? If your answer is yes, well, Ryan Howard is a poor man’s Adam Dunn.

by sitrick2 on Oct 6, 2008 10:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Get off the Adam Dunn lovefest. Rarely makes an out?

The man is a strikeout machine. That high OBP is from the number of walks that he gets. That’s great if you can drive him in, but his lack of speed hinders that. Batting average is not the be-all, but it is an indicator of successfully hitting. Albert Pujols produces a lot of runs because he hits for a high average. Ryan Howard produces his share of runs, but like Dunn he strikes out a lot and depends on other players to makeup for his strikeout totals. Both guys hit lots of HR’s but they put pressure on the offense with their strikeouts. In other words, they can be rally killers when they go cold. At least Ryan Howard is a descent fielder. Dunn is a butcher.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 7, 2008 9:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dunn's actually not a slow runner.

He’s no Felix Pie, but he can get it going. He’s even had a decent number of stolen bases given his hitting profile.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 7, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It seems that we tend to fall in love with

guys that have good stats in Wrigley when in fact they have good stats against our pitchers. I would hate to see us grab a guy like Dunn and find out his numbers against us are not necessarily high because of the ballpark.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 7, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I believe that's the "Blauser Precedent"

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 7, 2008 2:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sounds like a book by...

…Robert Ludlum.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 7, 2008 2:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And those who Beat us in the Post

D Lee, Juan Pierre, Todd Hollandsworth. I hope we don’t get Furcal.

by NYCUB FAN on Oct 9, 2008 7:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Or is Dunn a poor man's Howard?

Either way, no thanks to either one.

Just because Dunn hits the ball at Wrigley, doesn’t mean he’d be effective over a full season. While he rarely strikes out, there is too often nothing in between an extra-base hit or out with him.

And a career .225 batting average with RISP isn’t stupid – it shows a trend.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 7, 2008 2:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's get this straight for the last time.

Over 8 years, Adam Dunn has averaged 157 strikeouts per year. Just for the record.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 7, 2008 3:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs