Cubs pick up Harden's Option - No surgery needed

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2008 2:29 PM CDT

I'm a bit surprised that no surgery is needed, with the velocity down. If he can pitch like he has in the past, this is obviously a good thing - but he's got to be more durable.

Here's hoping he can be effective and pitch EVERY fifth day in 2009.

And now I need fourteen more words. Fourteen, you say? Yes, just fourteen more words.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs | Comment 34 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Well...

Rich Harden is one of those guys who you hope you can get around 22-25 starts from and who can be in peak and dominating form come the post-season. In other words a dominant Josh Beckett type.

Good news to finally receive on something.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 8, 2008 2:43 PM CDT 0 recs

Yeah, I'd take that, too

But 30 – 35 sure would be nice.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

Umm...

I support keeping Harden, but comparing him to Beckett is ridiculous. They’re both injured a lot…I guess that’s something, but let’s not act like Harden has Beckett’s pedigree.

Harden’s postseason statistics…

1-3 record, 11.1 IP, 12 H, 10BB vs 9 SO, and a 6.35 ERA.

I think that’s due to small sample size, but it’s not like he has a past indicating playoff dominance.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 8, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

Harden has the stuff to dominate in the postseason

but no pitcher can do so when injured.

Beckett is hurt this year and didn’t pitcher very well in his 2008 ALDS Postseason start.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 8, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

Dempster also had the stuff...

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 8, 2008 9:53 PM CDT up 0 recs

You're right, there is no comparison

Harden is a MUCH better pitcher than Beckett.

by kanderber on Oct 8, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

Seriously?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 8, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

Umm, yeah.

You think Beckett is better? Why?

by kanderber on Oct 9, 2008 8:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

Are you kidding me?

Beckett is 6-2 with 2.09 ERA in the playoffs. Check Harden’s stats above. 47 K’s vs 12 BB’s. Beckett has established himself as one of the greatest postseason pitchers in recent memory.
How about last postseason, where he went 4-0 with a 1.20(!) ERA. Incredible.

5 straight seasons of 25+ starts, so he’s not injured all that much of the time. Harden? 25 starts this year…4 the year before…9 the year before that…only one season with over 25 starts.

I like Harden and was glad the Cubs picked up the option, but he’s not Josh Beckett at this point in his career.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 9, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

I didn't realize you were talking about postseason.

Harden is clearly better in the regular season, which was my point. I’ll give you that Beckett is better in the postseason.

by kanderber on Oct 9, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

That wasn't my point...

Although that is a given. But to be fair to Harden, there is no current pitcher who is better than Beckett in the playoffs.

Harden does have a small advantage in career ERA, but he can’t stay on the field. Beckett has had his injury issues, but he’s had 5 straight seasons with 25+ starts. Harden had 25 this year, and broke the 25 barrier only once before. Beckett has consistently pitched more throughout his career, also having seasons of 23 and 21 starts early in his career.

If you’re saying you think Harden COULD be a better pitcher without injury…well that’s your opinion and it may be true. Hell, I might agree with that. I hope in the seasons to come we can figure that out. But Harden has little experience in logging major innings and his injuries have been much more severe than Beckett’s.

Harden can be dominant, but he must be healthy to establish himself in the upper echelon of ML pitchers. I like what he did for the Cubs this year, but I hope he won’t always be limited to 5-6 innings. It’ll weigh down a bullpen over time if he can’t get to the 7th and 8th inning with some level of consistency.

Let’s just agree that we hope Harden can finally get past his injuries and reach his true potential of being a #1, shutdown pitcher.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Oct 9, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

To be honest...

I wouldn’t mind if he couldn’t go EVERY 5th day. As long as he’s ready and 100% for the playoffs next year, I’m fine with this.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 8, 2008 2:51 PM CDT 0 recs

I think that is the thinking by Hendry, Piniella, Rothschild....

Which supports the need for a quality swingman operating out of the pen. Maybe that guy is Sean Marshall in 2009.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 8, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

Or...

Even Samardzija, Gaudin, or dare I say…. Rich Hill?

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 8, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

Fifteen

Your last line has 15 words.

Just sayin.

by WittyUserName on Oct 8, 2008 3:03 PM CDT 0 recs

Yeah, I know . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

2 fan posts...same topic....

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 8, 2008 3:33 PM CDT 0 recs

In Badger's Defense...

The 1st Fanpost was titled something different prior to the announcement.. It was to discuss the supposed surgery and whether or not to pick up the option…

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 8, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

Thanks.

I thought it merited a separate post bcause of that.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

Plus the fact

That Wreckard changed his title.

It had been something to the effect of, “Surgery may be needed”. When you look at it now, yes, they are two posts seemingly about the same thing.

Not the case when I added this one.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

I updated my title when the story changed

The title before was “Harden hurt, may need surgery” and I didn’t want to freak people since surgery was no longer on the table.

Even if I hadn’t changed the title I’m not sure the new diary was necessary (and not just a post), but hey – that’s a concern for the Diary Police, not me.

by Wreckard on Oct 8, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

Since the diaries have turned over in the last five days

Faster than Cub managers in the late 1980’s – mid 1990’s, I thought it was appropriate to do.

And yeah, I don’t think the fuss was all that called for, to be honest, but I’m not going to worry about it.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

All right!

Six posts about whether a diary was necessary!

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 8, 2008 8:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Sheets

I don’t believe that Ben Sheets will get the money that he would like due largely to his history of injuries especially the one that ended this season for him. I think that his price may be less than we would think it would be. Adding him would allow Sheets and Harden to pitch every 10th day. Not ideal but it would be one tough slot to get out of.

I feel odd posting this the day Al mentions the college of coaches but it may work out for us. You need a spot start – one of these guys goes in for a game early. In the playoffs we have so much pitching we don’t know what to do.

Just my suggestion.

by One F on Oct 8, 2008 4:03 PM CDT 0 recs

I like Harden

but pitching is the key. i think we must explore a deal for him. all the good teams take chances and trade players. he can pitch well when healthy and he cost nothing in today’s terms. I think the best scenario is 18-20 starts and 5-6 inning avg. then we go into next offseason having to either pay him longterm or lose him for nothing but picks. i dont wanna end up with another prior.

were getting old without youngsters to slot in. if were gonna contend year after year w/o a hitch hendry’s gotta make some chancey deals.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 8, 2008 4:45 PM CDT 0 recs

Now that the option is picked-up

Trade him, if possible, for young talent. $7 million isn’t alot for a pitcher of his caliber, but he can’t be expected to pitch the season. He may need surgery later.

by AboutTheCubs on Oct 8, 2008 6:47 PM CDT 0 recs

Meh, if he

could pitch on a schedule like the other guys in the rotation do the it’s an OK deal. I just hate that he has to be babied and likes to only pitch on cool nights.

by sue369 on Oct 8, 2008 8:01 PM CDT 0 recs

thats the problem

I just dont see him being able to do anything on a regular schedule. if he’s healthy and someone is offering up some young prime talent—-ditch him at max value. he was a great midseason pickup but not to be depended on. I see this as one of the cubs biggest problems—-taking chances on trading near burnt out players. good pitching can bring a good bounty in return and I think a team like the rangers, twins etc who need good pitching and dont have alot to spend will offer up a good return. we have z and lilly returning. I think demp resigns. maybe we can get rid of marquis(hopefully so but I doubt it). we have guzman and marshall as emergency starters. that leaves 1-2 spots to fill.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 8, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

yep

by sue369 on Oct 8, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

I hope this was a different doctor than the main guys for Wood & Prior.

by DudeVf11 on Oct 8, 2008 9:15 PM CDT 0 recs

Low risk

It is only one year. Any free agent pitcher would cost you a lot more in money and years. If he loses time to injury you only have one year wrapped up in him and move on after the season. I still hope Marquis is moved and Marshall gets a shot for the rotation.

by Nibbles on Oct 8, 2008 9:50 PM CDT 0 recs

problem with that

is……were getting long in the tooth. we need an array of youngsters. hendry is gonna have to take some chances this winter. some of which we may not all agree on. I think we can trade a harden,marquis,cedeno, hoffpower, fontenot etc. relatively low cost players who have enough potential to bring us a few lower level prospects.

their are contracts were stuck with and to keep contending you gotta have players to plug into holes at times and we dont have em.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

I just hope this doesn't remind me of the "employee"

I want to go to AZ late this winter and see Harden letting it rip, not trying to scale back.

His stiffness late this season caused him to be less effective. He just couldn’t rear back and let it rip.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 6:35 AM CDT 0 recs

The option had to be exercised

But I don´t have a good feeling. With the way he was babied by the Cubs ~~low pitch counts and plenty of rest~~ and he couldn´t stay healthy and was effective in the postseason is a vey bad sign. With his history I´d say the probability that he is healthy come playoff time next year (if the Cubs get to the postseason anyway) is very very slim.

I don´t believe rehab is enough when a pitcher all of the sudden loses so many MPH on their fastball. Like I said, had to be done, but I´m certainly not very optimistic.

by Luis on Oct 9, 2008 12:14 PM CDT 0 recs