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Building A Cubs Champion: Managing Management

Think back two weeks.

Just after the Cubs clinched the NL Central, even as they were resting players and struggling through the last week, most if not all of us were praising Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella for building a near-juggernaut that won more games than any Cubs team in 63 years and was likely the best Cubs team in 73, if not longer.

They seemed deep and well-balanced and built for a long postseason run.

Didn't happen, of course. So are you among those who are calling for wholesale changes, both on and off the field? If you are, I think you're making a mistake.

The club is going to be sold within the next few months -- although if you go back and read what Sam Zell supposedly wanted to do, it should have been sold more than six months ago, so who knows for sure -- and I know there are some who think that whoever the new owner turns out to be, should dump everyone and start over.

To which I say, "Huh?" You just witnessed the Cubs win the most games they have won in two consecutive seasons (182) in exactly seventy years (since 1937-38), and you want to tear it down and begin again? Why?

Instead, I would call on new ownership to keep everyone who's built this team -- because thanks to Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella, they have put together a club that should, with minor tweaks, be able to continue to contend for the long haul -- and add to the front office staff.

That's one thing the Cubs have always trailed the major leagues in -- year-round, full-time employees that can make a difference, particularly in baseball operations and scouting. Look at the team's front office list -- I counted 128 full-time employees. That's nearly dead last among all thirty teams. The Dodgers, who just blew the Cubs out of the playoffs, list 182 full-timers; the Red Sox, who Crane Kenney keeps saying he wants to see the Cubs emulate, have 178; and the Rays, who just came out of nowhere and might still win it all this year, have 160. Only the Marlins, with 110 (don't be fooled by the long list -- many of those are interns or seasonal employees like gameday personnel), have fewer year-round, full-time employees than the Cubs.

Increasing the scouting and baseball operations staffs, in particular, might get new voices involved and help current staffers who are overworked. For some of you who think I'm not statistically oriented, I acknowledge the need to look at advanced metrics in modern baseball -- in conjunction with scouting reports -- and hope that new ownership would put people in place that would lend their expertise in this area, just as the Red Sox did when they brought Bill James on board several years ago (in fact, it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to swipe James himself from Boston). I like the job Jim Hendry and Co. have done, but I will say that Hendry, a former baseball coach, has a tendency to rely too much on "tools" rather than actual baseball skills -- resulting in too many chances being given to players like Corey Patterson (and maybe Felix Pie, though I say the jury's still out on him). That's the only flaw I see in Hendry's game.

So to Mark Cuban or the Ricketts group or whoever winds up owning the Cubs in the near future: don't tear the building down. Put a shiny new addition on it. That's how I see a perennial winner being built on the North Side of Chicago.

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As has been stated earlier

due to contracts, you can’t ‘dump’ most of the players. Most here think in fantasy baseball terms, and want the impossible.

First. Time. Ever.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 9, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

your first time ever

and you wrote something of substance, not just saying, “first”; good man, good comment.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just have a bad feeling about the crowd's attitude at Wrigley next year

If this team faulters slightly, the fans are going to boo///criticize crazily i think..

2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..

by Chanman25 on Oct 9, 2008 9:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's October 9th.

Our first game at Wrigley is April 13th. That’s six full months. Time heals, and I think come six months from now, we will still be excited about our core group of players. A tad early, IMO, to start predicting how we are gonna feel in six months.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True...

But some wounds never completely heal. Let’s say the ’09 Cubs get off to a slow start, I can see fans getting ugly.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 9, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A question to the group.....

Now that the season has ended in a spectacularly disastrous manner, I would like to ask the collective wisdom of the group – “what is wrong with booing?” This is something that I have wondered for awhile but have never asked because my flame-retardant blogging suit has been at the cleaners. Everyone talks (rightly so) about the electric atmosphere at Wrigley; how the fans stand and cheer when the count gets to 2 strikes on a batter in the early innings; how the fans have started singing “Go Cubs Go” after a victory. Fans cheer and sing to show their pleasure after a good play or a good game or series and this is OK. When these same fans boo because of bad play or poor performance they are blasted. Why? If cheering is the vocal manifestation of pleasure for good performance, isn’t booing the equivalent expression for poor performance? Being a fan for a long time and seeing both good and bad performance, I both cheer and boo. In my mind, this does not make me a better or worse fan then others.

Sorry to hijack the thread but inquiring minds want to know.

Football and basketball are just things to do between baseball seasons.

by MetsSuck on Oct 9, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing wrong at all with booing

I personally only boo stupid play and/or lack of effort. (Or, I try to only do that)

But I have no problem with booing. You paid for your ticket.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nothing at all wrong with booing.

i’ve had enough of just sitting on my hands and accepting the poor play.
i want a team that only wants to dominate the the team they are playing against every day.
i hate the thought of just doing my job attitude. at the prices this team is charging for us to go and watch them, we should expect EXCELLENCE!
I’M SICK OF WAITING FOR NEXT YEAR! i look back at the hundreds of tickets i’ve bought over my life and the thousands of dollars i’ve spent, and i have to ask myself why should i do it anymore.
i love baseball, and i love to watch it live and in person, but i’m thinking i can do alot better by driving an hour closer to my home and watching minor league baseball at a fraction of the cost.
I LOVE THE CUBS. i cant see myself rooting for another MLB team, but i cant see spending thousands of dollars on a team that wont win.
maybe i’ll change my mind depending on the new owner, and the changes that have to be made for next year, but only time will tell.

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Oct 9, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what's the benefit of it?

how does it help the team?

our jobs as fans of a team are to try to do everything we can to help them

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that's the case, then why ever say anything negative

at all. If nothing else, a fan should be able to express their feelings, whether negative or positive.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 9, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would think our job as fans

is to buy tickets to provide money for the team to get players. The players’ job is to provide entertainment.
Booing is part of the give and take. It’s just that sometimes, the booing comes too quickly. If that happens and booing all the time, it becomes meaningless. Another thing is that sometimes booing plus too much beer can lead to ugliness.
I don’t like to boo unless there has been prolonged poor play. One error is not that. But after almost two full games of really bad play, I would have been booing by the seventh or eighth inning. For me, when I boo, it’s as much to let the manager/management know that what they are putting out there is unacceptable. Once you’ve paid for your ticket, it is really the only way to let them know. Not buying future tickets won’t work, because someone else will buy it, instead.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Errors are just that - errors

Nobody wants to make an error. They happen.

Lack of effort, not running hard on a ground ball, staring at what you think is a home run but is really only a ball off the wall, etc… – those things are boo-worthy…

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Oct 9, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would add...

Boo stupidity.

If some guy throws to the wrong cutoff man, I don’t care how hard he ran to get to the ball in the first place.

If a hitter swings at a 3-0 pitch after the pitcher has walked two other guys and hits a little chopper, the fact that he hustled to make it a close play at first means nothing to me.

I try to just boo stupidity and effort. I really do.

But I don’t blame people for getting frustrated, either.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok...

but if you were booing in game 2 of the playoffs are you booing the management? the same management that put in place a team that won 97 games??

i just think booing in itself is pointless, as Marmol said its not like he’s trying to screw up

if you’re booing poor effort I’m all for it, it expresses a level of disgust with the type of effort you expect

If you’re going to boo performance you could literally boo ANYONE at any point in the season. All players go through slumps, etc… and what the heck is the point of that? It’s not like they’re trying to suck

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would grant you that point

that by the time the playoffs are happening, there’s nothing you can do. The booing is just venting ( and I would love to hear Seinfeld do a bit on why the syllable “boo” and not some other syllable?). I’m sure that there were as many fans at Wrigley booing as there were fans silently shaking their heads in dismay and disbelief.
I truly wonder if fans hadn’t booed and expressed themselves in other forums at the end of 2006, would management have thought things were fine, especially if they were still buying tickets. If so, the Cubs might still have Dusty Baker as manager. And in May of 2007, maybe the booing let Lou know that he had the fans behind him and he could rip into the players.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am more trying to imply, that the atmosphere at Wrigley may be extremely tight next season

if this team doesn’t play well to start off. I mean last season we were all WS bound or bust, and you could tell that from the first game..

2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..

by Chanman25 on Oct 9, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Booing also...

lets the team and manager know when you’ve had enough. I booed Howry often, because I was sick of seeing Lou pitch this guy when he clearly has nothing left. How many times can you watch this guy try to paint the outside corner with his 89mph fastball and watch it go out of the park without trying to stop Lou from inflicting him on us?

"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all." -B. Dylan

by Wood20K on Oct 9, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs will be so fine in 2009!

The team is solid with a tune up here and there (1 more quality starter), bullpen help for Marmol and Woody, an annulment of the Dome Deal, and we should be pretty well set for another run. The entire team, including Hendry and Company have done a fantastic job. I was born the same year Mr. Cub was a rookie in the NL and this is definitely the best team I have seen, bar none. They just shut it down after clinching, gave the Brew Crew the WC and blew the Mets out of th playoffs (Yeah! for ’69) and just could not get the torque up after idling for a week. The Bums were tweaked and had Torre on the controls so they blew by us off the line and never looked back. That said, we are all in this for the duration, eBay bids aside, I was born a Cub Fan and will Die a Cub Fan, hopefully with a WS win in my lifetime…soon!

Mike=Milton+Eamus Catuli = AC000000

by Cub's Paperboy on Oct 9, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The annulment of the Dome deal?

You make it sound like that’s no big deal.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It may not be a big deal.

While nothing is happening right now, do NOT be surprised if Dome goes back to Japan. Remember: once you get into Lou’s doghouse it is very difficult to get out. I don’t think Lou wants him on the team, and that will produce considerable pressure for a buyout.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is this

your opinion or something you’ve got a tip on?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, okay, but

a buyout is not an annulment. I know you didn’t make the original statement. I was thinking that maybe I missed some big news about K. F.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 10, 2008 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do the Cubs compare when you narrow it to the relevant departments

and forget about marketing and IT, etc.? It would be interesting to know how they compare just considering the total of Basbeall Operations, Minor League Department, and Scouting Department.

The Cubs do have a stat guy, Chuck Wasserstrom, but he’s a former PR guy who read Moneyball (or so it seemed when they created that new job for him a couple of years ago).

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 9, 2008 10:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's every department.

Take a look at the links for the teams I linked above.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just think

they could hire another 30 baseball people for the cost of Neifi Perez’s last contract.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 9, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dont need to tear down the whole thing

We have some players who could be a good core for this team but I think there does need to be a few significant changes in spots. Not start over, but revamp a little bit.

Also, good point Al, the cubs need to do a better job in baseball operations and scouting. We saw how scouting can be a great tool, the dodgers knew all of the cubs’ weaknesses and kept pounding them.

by cubsmania on Oct 9, 2008 10:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I do think people are jumping the gun when saying:

-Carlos Zambrano is not effective anymore, look at his stats and he is going downhill!
-Trade Aramis Ramirez and Alfonso Soriano!
-Team is not the problem, TEAR Wrigley down!

I do think that if it is possible we should go after Texeira. I love Lee as a player, but he is getting only older and his power is diminishing. I mean I am content with keeping Lee, but if we could get a better player instead..

2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..

by Chanman25 on Oct 9, 2008 10:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I think it would be hyper exaggeration to say that everyone/most want to tear the whole team apart

Gaging from the comments it appears that most want to move Soriano and Lee down in the lineup. Some including myself want the Cubs to be OPEN to the possibility of trading Lee.

by cubsnlinux on Oct 9, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DLee is the only one who hit during the playoffs

Look at the numbers and you will see DLee can hold his head up for the way he hit in the playoffs…more than others can say

by HawaiiCubFan on Oct 9, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mark DeRosa would like a word with you.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 9, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a few tweaks needed...

The Cubs won 97 games because of strong starting pitching and great bullpen work. And they stayed relatively healthy all year long. The offense was solid and BALANCED. No one player was responsible for carrying the team. When DeLee and Dome struggled, Soto, Edmonds and Aram were there to pick up the load.

Hendry has always done what he felt was best to make the team better (i.e. Reed Johnson and Rich Harden) and I don’t think that will change. Onward and upward…

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Oct 9, 2008 10:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Hendry has always done what he felt was best to make the team better"

Hendry had been guilty of holding on to under performing players far too long until their trade value is completely diminished.

by cubsnlinux on Oct 9, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The key to a successful GM is to make more positive moves than negative.

Every GM will make moves that don’t work out but they can’t be afraid to make a mistake or they will become paralysed to making ANY decision.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hendry has also been guilty

of bringing in most of our superstar players, like DeRo, Aramis, Lee, Soriano, etc. Don’t forget to highlight his positives, too.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

Actually I think it was Al who mentioned he is responsible for every player on the 40 man roster. He’s been with the organization since 1995. I wonder how things might have been different if MacPhail had just done the GM duties at first not hired Lynch and brought Hendry along.

Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Oct 9, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most of the core...

…is staying put and you couldn’t move them if you wanted to.

Would I recommend whole changes if you could? No I wouldn’t. It is not the quantitiy of changes that matters now, but the quality of the change.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Precisely.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think it is just the no trade clauses that make them unmoveable?

Because the contracts aren’t looking so bad after Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse, not to mention Juan Pierre and GM Jr. out there.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the most part yes...

…no trades are not impossible to deal with, but they really cut off the flexibility you have to shop someone if they give you 20 teams they won’t go to.

The other piece is this, when you go to that player to get their list of approved teams, your basically saying we don’t want you anymore.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could something like this happen?

Could the Cubs sit Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez all down together and say – we want to keep all three of you, but we need to get a LH bat in – which of you would be willing to waive your NT clause and to which teams?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Put yourself as the GM of another team and you’re trying to improve your team, keeping mindful for the most part of your budget as well as the desire to hang on to your quality young talent.

Now look at the big three on the Cubs – Soriano, Lee, Ramirez – and take into account their age, contracts and production trends.

In all seriousness, the only one I would want to trade for is Ramirez.

Now if the Cubs start chipping in some $ to help with the contracts, that may change my thinking. But based on talent moving forward, Ramirez is the only one I would be willing to give up something to get something.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting myself in another GM's spot

I would trade for Lee or Ramirez. Lee’s two year contract is nice. 13 mill for Lee is not expensive compared to Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, Gary Matthews Jr. etc.

There may also be someone willing to take Soriano, precisely because of his production trend. He’s holding steady and looks like he may “age like a greyhound.”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow - are you comparing Lee to AJones, Rowand, and GMatthews Jr.?

Of course Lee is not expensive compared to those guys… but who would want those guys? besides the idiot GMs that signed each of them, that is…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is not that Lee is no good

The point is that Lee’s contract is short and relatively inexpensive.
Let’s say you’re a GM. You need a 1B. You work for the Yankees, Orioles, Giants, or Angels.
You can get in on the Teix bidding for 10 years and 20 M.
You can go cheap on Nomar, Casey, Millar, etc.
You can give Hinske the Jacque Jones contract (plus inflation) and get JJ production.
You can give Giambi an Andruw-like contract (and just maybe get Andruw like production).
And then Jim Hendry calls you and says, "Derrek Lee could be on the market at 2/26.
You’re not going to be very interested in that option, especially if you are the team that loses the Teix bidding?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't use the Yankees or the Orioles in your scenario

those franchises defy all realms of logic. They could do just about anything under the sun (and moon and stars) and it wouldn’t surprise me. But if I’m a GM of one of the other 27 teams, no, I am not interested in DLee at 2/26.

I would certainly check with my baseball people, but based on what I know now, there is nothing I see that leads me to believe that DLee will even come close to approaching his 2006esque numbers again. For my 2/26, I have to assume I’m going to get 2008esque numbers. And that’s not worth 13M a year. Cubs would have to pitch in a few $M to make it happen – get it under $10M a year and I might start thinking about it.

I like DLee and I’m glad he’s on the Cubs and I’m hoping my thinking is closer to reality than yours because I think he can turn it around. I like his defense and I think he’s even better in the clubhouse as a quiet leader. Those things are all very appealing in his current situation with the Cubs.

But if I’m a GM of another team, I can’t count on any of those things transferring over if I sign him. I have to look at his baseball skills and what his production will be for the next two years. And there are much better ways to spend $13M a year for 2 years. Besides, if I don’t have a Micah Hoffpauir-type in my own system, I don’t deserve to be a GM.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But the point is

that you don’t get to spend 13 M for ONLY two years for anyone but a guy in a situation like DLee’s.

And it’s also precisely the point that you and I both think DLee can turn it around which will also be in other GM’s minds. Lee has a great track record of health and success on both sides of the diamond.

If all you’re talking about is pitching in 6 M on Lee, he is extremely tradeable.

As for the 4 teams, I mentioned, they’re the ones with holes at 1B and 3 out of the 4 will definitely be willing to spend at the position.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure I understand your first sentence, but my point is simply this

I don’t think any GM will want to spend 26M over the next two years for DLee.

It’s too much money for questionable production. Yes, it’s ONLY two years, but that’s two years I could putting that chunk of change towards another position on my team where (IMO) I am more confident of getting my money’s worth.

But forget about whether you or I think he’s “tradeable”. Let’s deal in reality: Is he going to be traded? Yes or No.

I say No. And I’ll put up $20 towards his Project 3000 charity if I’m wrong. And if the Cubs trade him “as is”, i.e. they don’t pay part of his salary, I’ll double my contribution to $40. Will you, or anyone else, take the “Yes” side of this bet?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that first sentence is pretty incomprehensible.

Let me rephrase. GMs can’t buy any free agents of Lee’s caliber for only 2 years. They have to pay 4 years or more. Lee looked really bad to us Cub fans, but he has a long track record of success. He’s one of the better bets for a bounce back.

Let’s ask it this way – say Lee was on the free agent scene last year and you knew you’d only have to pay 3/39 for him. Would you rather have Lee at that price, Aaron Rowand for his contract, or Torii Hunter for his? And which would you expect to be the better hitter at the end of each contract? Guys like Hunter and Rowand were a lot riskier per their contracts than Lee is now.

It’s a good bet you offer, but I don’t take bets in general. Sorry. I’m also a lot more confident that he is tradeable than that he will be traded.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you're ignoring an extremely important body of work...

the entire 2008 season!

Sure if I go back to last year and look at those three players, forgetting for a moment that Rowand and Hunter are CFers, and I could have any of them for 3/39, I’d probably go (in order) Hunter/Lee (it’s close) and then a big drop off to Rowand.

But after seeing the 2008 season, and no tangible evidence that the dropoff in production trend will reverse, I wouldn’t spend 13M/year on any of them.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get where you're coming from and we may just never be able to convince the other on this.

So, this will be my last word on the subject for now. I figure that if Todd Helton could almost be traded two years back when he had more production questions and a worse contract than Lee does this year, Lee could be traded after a bad year, too.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well if you had said

“Lee could almost be traded”, similar to Helton, I’d almost be willing to agree with you. ;-)

btw – although not on your list of teams needing a 1B, I think Boston is the type of place where Lee could go and thrive next year. Maybe Theo and Jimbo will rope in someone else and do another three-teamer…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

like drawing straws?

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 9, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Changes

Although I dont think big changes are needed this will be a huge must or bust offseason for Jim Hendry. One of our biggest problems is not knowing when to hold and when to fold on a player. We lack in the good prospects dept. Hopefully we will address that under new mgmnt as Al said.

Their are players that need to be traded like Harden,Marquis,Cedeno etc for prospects. Were getting long in the tooth and have absolutely no one to fill holes. I think Harden brings a big reward back. As much as I like him when he’s healthy, the truth of the matter is,he’s nothing more than a employee.

I think the market for furcal will prove to be too big and he’s really all thats out there thats any better than what we have. I’ll admit theriot has flaws but he cost us nothing. cabrera,furcal,renteria,lugo etc will cost us big without that much of an upgrade. Furcal is great when he’s healthy but he’s not healthy much.

Fukudome is ours,as is soriano,ramirez,soto, and derosa.

I think we need to resign demp and reed. We need to look for a centerfielder and a right fielder. I kinda see a dome and reed platoon in center. Is it perfect? NO but I dont see many options out there. Abreu is out there, could be an option but I dont know his defense is horrid.

can brian roberts play ss or does hendry have dero slotted in in rf and b-ro at 2nd if he’s signed?

If wood wants anything more than a 1-2 year deal—-take the emotion and ties out and let him walk. DO NOT saddle us with his injuries anymore. marmol is ready and we just drafted another pitcher who was a closer. We need a few fresh arms in the pen and a top starter.

I’m not against trading lee ,although he has a no trade clause, but he makes alot of plays look easy when in fact their not.

Alot of questions need to be answered this offseason and hendry better be active. Our core is getting really old and we have no replacements waiting. I think he’s gotta take some chances on some trades even though we all wont agree with them.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why do you think Wood is an injury liability?

His blister issue was non-arm related, and he pitched pretty well…

"There is not a better offense in America. Missouri has had 48 possessions and scored on 33 of them. The nation's No. 1 scoring offense has punted just five times and has yet to go three-and-out." Tom Dienhart, Rivals.com

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 9, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

A two year contract with reasonable incentives on total appearances over two years to lock a third would be a fair contract for both sides.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sign Wood

I agree, two year deal with an option for a third. Let him walk the list of teams would be plenty to sign him

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 9, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell, I would even have a 4th year option that vests as well.

Something like a fair closer/set up $$$ for the first two guaranteed years and something like 110 appearances in years 1 & 2 to lock year 3 and a total of 165 over the three years to lock year 4. Have years 3 & 4 each escalate between 500k and 1M and he has a very fair deal.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I see it

 our payroll is at or close to capacity. I love kerry wood but is he a huge upgrade over carlos marmol for 3-4 years at 5-10 million? we sign him thats saying were depending on you 100% given his history of injuries. you saddle yourself with that kinda contract you leave yourself no room to go out and get a replacement if he goes down. We have a lot of backloaded contracts,aging core players, and no replacemnts in the minors. some chances are gonna have to be done to upgrade our existing team, get us some prospects and stay at or about are current payroll.

we as cub fans and the cub brass get emtionally connected with players when in fact its time to either let em walk or trade for the highest return before their useless to us and everyone else.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my mind, the question is

if you don’t resign Woody, who would you replace him with in the bullpen? It seems to me that resigning Woody allows you to keep your set-up and closer depth which is so important to every successful team.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not saying dont resign him

I’m saying dont go over 1-2 years and keep the money VERY reasonable. incentive laden contract. marmol’s arm surely cant hold up too what it got put through last year. We drafted cashner and hopefully he pans out. Howry’s gotta be replaced and i’m sure that will cost us. we are at or near payroll capacity. we need a center fielder, backup catcher, #1 or #2 starter.closer, bullpen help, bench player, arb raises, and dome thus far has proved to be a bench player. So we as fans want a replacement for him if he dont pan out. alot of people want to take a look at the ss market. I’ll say it again our core players are getting old and the chances are running out with this current team. we have no replacements. to improve the overall team chances will have to be made.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Getting over injury phobia

We are a far cry away from the days of Dusty Baker where arms were shredded for sport (I hate to admit it, but the pun was intended). Our team health managment was better this past year and although Lou leaned hard on Soto, Marmol, and Zambrano, he also knew to pull back on each in different ways.

We need to get over the disappointments of Prior and Wood and realize that a high ceiling player who is healthy and productive some times but not all times is not a bad thing when you have as much depth as the Cubs now have. It’s one thing to lose Prior and have to pitch Les Walrond. It’s a totally different thing to add Harden and still be able to go back to Sean Marshall or add Furcal and still be able to go back to Theriot.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand what your saying

but will payroll allow that. remember players dero are in their last year and needs to be resigned. can we agree on that?? I like wood as much as the next guy but his injury history has to be a huge factor in any contract for him.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the case of Harden -

Yes, payroll allows it – he’s only 7 mill. But you’re right about the potential problem there. It depends on how much $$$ the Cubs do have.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok dgu answer me this honestly

we need prospects bad bad bad and you gotta give up something to get something. Harden is great when healthy but he isnt gonna stay that way as proven. right or wrong?? 1 way or another he’s a FA next year. Dont you think a team like the rangers or twins who need pitching bad would give up a good return for him? I gotta think selling him off now b4 its too late is a good move.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you think we need prospects "bad bad bad"?

I personally enjoy watching prospects develop. I wish the Cubs had more prospects to develop.

But the fact of the matter is that Lou won’t play raw prospects. Set aside the super-controversial Felix Pie. Just look at how Lou used Eric Patterson. Eric was brought up. Played in a game, maybe a game and a half and was sent down. Then after an injury he came up again, played in a game and a half and was gone again. Then, finally, when the Cubs were ready to trade him, he got regular playing time.

You can’t get productive use out of prospects that way.

We’re locked in to veterans right now for the next 2 years. Keep Harden.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it has the makings

of being out of lou’s hands. rami,lee,fuku,sori are all injury risk. we are at or near payroll capacity. leaves no room for error and players are gonna get injured. harden is an employee although he is near the bets pitcher in baseball when healthy. his contract and potential can bring a huge bounty to a team that needs one like us. or keep him like we usually do until he’s absolutely useless.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You do realize that Furcal

has had one injury plagued season….this one. Prior to that

He played in 138, 159, 154, 143, 156, 154, 79, and 131 games (2007-2001).

It is the responsible of the Cubs medical staff to determine if Furcal’s injury this year is fully healed. Then, it is the resonsibility of the training to staff to determine whether they think the injury will re-occur (i.e. via his batting stance, how he plays the field, etc), If both of those folks think that the injury is a one time injury, then there is no reason to not kick the tires if you have the money to buy the car..

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 9, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That one injury season resulted in back surgery.

What seems evident in people with back injuries, particularly those who have had surgery, is that they have issues with their back the rest of their lives.

I don’t think signing a shortstop who has recently had back surgery is a good use of resources.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said

I will leave that to the Medical experts to decide…I would hope that they would do their due diligence before signing anybody to a long term deal. If the risk out weighs the reward, then you don’t do it. But if they truly feel that they need a legit leadoff hitter to win, then not getting a person like Furcal or B Rob is not good use of your current 24 other resources either.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 9, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reed Johnson had back problems in 2007...

… and missed a lot of the season.

It didn’t seem to bother him in 2008, when he had the best year of his career.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

were not discussing

a little contract here. were discussing another soriano type contract.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is not going to get an 8 year deal

I will be shocked if he gets more than 4 years.

Look…if Cubs truly feel that they are a couple of pieces away and one of those pieces is a legit leadoff hitter, then they have to at least do their homework and look at furcal. There are no guarantees that they can trade for Roberts and there are not many choices after that unless they roll the dice with what they have internally. Rolling the dice internally is a dangerous propasition since Soriano is apt to not take kindly to the move and Lou and Co may bow to pressure to move him back. If they have somebody like Furcal and Roberts…they would be hard press to justify moving them out of the top spot just because Soriano is struggling for a piece.

If they don’t get Furcal or Roberts, then barring some other type of trade, Soriano is our leadoff hitter again and I just don’t think that helps this team get over its playoff hurdles. I am sorry, you just don’t put a guy who is capable of hitting 40 homeruns in the leadoff spot. He needs to be in a run producing spot, period.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Oct 9, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually his back DID give him problems in 2008

and he spent a couple of weeks on the DL.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your right

but as a whole season is concerned he faired very well.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats pretty shocking

I wouldnt have even though to look at the number of full time staff compared to the rest of the league, if theyre looking to add 30-40 full timers, I’ll gladly forward my resume along.

Im not for a complete overhaul on the field, just one impact bat, preferably a lefty, but in doing so, one of our starters might have to go…..thats what I prefer, but dont expect in reality.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 9, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My 2 cents...

After the Cubs clinched, everyone kept saying. “we don’t care who we play in the NLDS”. Piniella for the most part rested his regulars and coasted to the end. Turns out the Cubs should have cared. Who wants to face the team with the best ERA in the league in the first round? If they had played hard against the Brewers the last weekend, they could’ve let the Mets into the playoffs instead of the Brewers. The Cubs would have had a better chance against them instead of the Dodgers in my opinion.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Oct 9, 2008 10:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Very true.

I believe we were all lulled by the Dodgers overall won-loss record and did not fully comprehend how hot they were. I knew they had the best record after the ASB and Manny was on fire, but still didn’t realize the enormity of their streak.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't buy that theory

because last year the Cubs didn’t clinch until the next to last day of the season.

They looked almost as bad in the playoffs last year against Arizona.

I think both year’s showing had less to do with how their opponnet played but more to do with how the Cubs themselves played.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

but last year the Cubs couldn’t have picked their opponent like they could have this year. Play a little harder against the Brewers and we face the Mets in the first round (a much easier match up than the Dodgers, IMO). The Phillies match up better than we do against the Dodgers, so perhaps the Phils take the Dodgers out in the first round and then we could play the Phils in a longer series, who we match up better against, IMO.

When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo

by gwood on Oct 9, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Puh-leaze

We could have played Aurora High School’s junior varsity team and lost, the way the Cubs played.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

In doesn’t matter who you play if you paly like crap. Let’s dispense with this notion that if only the Cubs had played someone else, we would have prevailed. That fact is, they weren’t prepared to play anyone. The dodgers seemed to have a plan on how to handle our hitters and pitchers. Our plan was to show up, throw our gloves on the field, and we would win because “We’re the best team in baseball”. We got beat because the other guy was better.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 9, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs lulled themselves...

…and there was no excuse for not being ready – none what so ever.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

This team wasn’t ready to play anyone. I don’t want to hear that they should of beaten the Brewers and blah, blah, and blah. Bottom line they were lazy in there approach to the playoffs, and it showed.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 9, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

By we, I was referring to the fans.

I don’t play for, or work for, the Cubs.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am to surprised

I would of thought that the Cubs would be on the level with other big market teams in reference to personnel in the front office. I just want the Cubs to become a model for drafting players. I think the Cubs are making strides, but not at the level that they should be at. Would love to see more players major league ready as postion players.
 Major changes, I don’t think it is necessary, however if this team blows a tire in the first round of the playoffs or does not make the playoffs, there will be changes. ( and a lot of second guessing.)
 Now I am not against exploring trades, I still would look into a Ramy and a arm for David Wright.
 I just fear that this team needs a shake, needs some new juice, they stand pat, and we are talking about the same thing next year

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 9, 2008 11:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you.

But if you do want the Cubs to be a model for drafting players, the first thing they have to do is bolster the scouting deparrtment.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dodgers Scouting

I heard they had scouted the Cubs thoroughly for three weeks leading up to the NLDS. They scouted extremely well based on the way Dodgers shut down the Cubs. Does anyone how thoroughly the Cubs scouted the Dodgers over the last three weeks?

The Cubs have done a better job iof scouting in recent years, but they could definitely use more personnel. I would like to see the Cubs have more guys like Theriot and Soto come up through the system to be key players for the big league club. Who can forget that Ty Griffin pick back in the 1980’s?

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 9, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have stated this before....

…there is no way to tell how well the Cub’s scouts put together a game plan against the Dodgers. I am amazed how many people are saying the Dodgers out scouted the Cubs and that is why they won.

I don’t think anyone on this board was in either the Dodger scouting report meetings or the Cub’s scouting report meetings, so how could anyone possibly know it was scouting that failed.

Let me finish with this, the likelyhood that the Cub’s scouting staff dropped the ball is very very low. At this stage of the season, everyone knows everyone else pretty darn well. And, no matter how good your scouting reports are, they don’t go up to bat for the hitter, field a ball, or throw a pitch. In the end, execution on the field trumps all.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MPH 73

in the past few seasons the Cubs have done particularly poorly against starting pitchers who they are facing for the first time. Isn’t that an indictment against the scouting department?

by TC Cubby on Oct 9, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a reasonable judgment to make.

And how many times have we heard, “That’s so-and-so’s first major league home run.” Wouldn’t that also be for the same reason?

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Consider this.

Maybe the scouts are preparing their reports and the staff isn’t using them.

Just sayin’.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If your infering...

…that Piniella is shunning the scouting reports, I highly doubt it.

Lou is an old school baseball guy, and his type are ones that rely heavily on scouting reports to build their knowledge.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn't this the same as

condemning those who are making judgments on the effectiveness of the scouts?

you’re saying no one here has any idea what those scouting reports read so how can you possibly criticize them

same thing here, we have no idea whether Pineilla uses them or not, so how can we criticize Pineilla for not using them OR support him for using them.

We have no idea, its all speculation

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct...

…I was just stating an opinion on whether it was possible Lou didn’t use them, which I highly doubt.

Bottom line, when players are not prepared to execute mentally (and that is what I think happened with this club), the best scouting reports in the world will do you no good.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

All season, we came back time after time, and this time, we folded. After the grand slam in game 1, we were only down 4-2 with a lot of baseball to play. For some reason, that HR sucked the fight out of us. How many times during the season did we come back from larger deficits than 2 runs? Probably dozens. That HR shocked and awed us into submission and I wish I knew why.

We had tons of chances in game 3 to get big innings, but no one could get a hit when we needed it. Poor AB’s with runners on killed us in game 3.

Gotta keep the faith, this team will be 90% the same next season, hope they learned from this year and will be stronger mentally in the ’09 playoffs.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Oct 9, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

I agree this team will be 90% the same composition next season. I don’t agree with this, but that is how it will play out. Therefore change needs to come from within, starting with Lou Piniella and Alfonso Fucking Soriano.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't be serious

Just the other day I saw Theriot posing on a perfect bunt. He was thrown out by 65 feet——later intentionally walked in retaliation.-Hammer

by JEROMEWALTON'SBATTINGSTANCE on Oct 9, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry - is this a game thread?

Seeing as how the time for knee-jerk reactionary typing ended several days ago, there’s no reason for the profanity, is there?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then that is frightening...

It means

A) Pinella and the staff think they can do it without the scouts

OR

B) Pinella can’t convince the players to pay attention to the scouts

In which case, adding to the front office won’t do jack.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO...

…it is common for many clubs (even good ones) to struggle against pitchers they have never seen before. If it is someone that came up from the minors, they have to reach down to that level for a report, and they just won’t be as in depth as the ones the are accustomed.

Now, if the Cubs are short staffed, it could be their scouting reports on lessor known players are lacking, but I don’t buy that they were outscouted by the Dodgers. My opinion is they simply didn’t execute.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems to me it's a more a matter of execution.

You can have all of the scouting reports in the world and don’t execute, it doesn’t really matter.

For instance, if a pitcher makes a mistake and a hitter hits a home run, it’s not because the scouting report was wrong, it’s just a matter of execution.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct...

…I don’t think the game one scouting report asked for Dempster to walk seven guys, or for 4 errors in game two.

Those issues are from not being in the right frame of mind to perform.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No to David Wright

He is a tremendous talent, but cannot handle pressure. He has put so much pressure on himself and failed in the closing weeks of the last two seasons. Do you really think he would do a good job handling the weight of “101 years”?

by SuperContext on Oct 9, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am just saying

change of scenery can do wonders. Wright has played in New York and if you don’t think he hasn’t
been run over by the media, you don’t know New York. They have bashed him hard, I think coming to Chicago would work fine. He is younger than Ramy, runs the bases well, runs out ground balls, and field a good 3B.
 Hey I like Ramy, but I think Wright would look great in the Blue.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 9, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had advocated making

some major changes in my fan post “Blow it up?!”

In my opinion, Lou at 65, does not want to make the tough decisions that may cause angst, or confrontation – i.e. moving Soriano or Lee to where they should be in the lineup. No way Dome should have started games 1 & 2. He SHOULD have started against his old countrymate in Game 3. Dempster should NOT have been allowed to “pitch through it”. For EVEY playoff game, for us Cubs fans – THERE IS NO tomorrow.

So this is the “captain of the playoff ship” we have. Secondly, if any business or team has players put into the exact same position, in two consecutive years, and fail miserably both times, something needs to change. It purely is a dumb managerial decision to not make a change.

Third, we have a couple players that are on the decline, regardless of their popularity. What harm would there be in seeing what kind of return the team could get from their value?

Finally, Al, you are right in that our advance scouting needs tremendous upgrades. The Dodgers exploited the Cubs weaknesses in every way.

As I had posted earlier – keep the core of the pitching staff, Woody, Marmol, Soto, maybe Theriot (at 2nd), A-Ram – no one else is “untouchable” in my book.

by The E-Man on Oct 9, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not just upgrading by adding scouts...

… it’s actually using the scouting reports once they’re delivered.

Just sayin’.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thank you for that.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sure...

…they were read and communicated to the players, but it doesn’t matter what they say when a club was as tight at the Cubs. Hell, you could have told each hitter what pitch was coming, and it wouldn’t have made a bit of difference.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, unlike Wayne and Garth

I do not fear change. First with SammyZ, he’s covered on payments for 2008 for several months now, so the sell the team edict say, back in March has long since subsided. On mgmt changes, I would say no; there’s a system in place that is making progress.

On the players however, some change is needed. Like SDSJM said, some players’ contracts will prohibit them being moved. With that in mind:

Soriano and Ramirez will remain and both are good players, though need postseason help. I really like Kosuke-san and truly believe he’s gonna get better. But he should be targeted to work CF as well as RF in ST come February. He’s the backup plan to Pie or Pie-platoon. Re-sign Johnson but JimmyE may have to go unless he takes much less money.

I wanna keep DeRo but as the super-sub, not everyday 2B’er. But what an insurance policy he is for several positions.

I’d like to see what they can get in a SP for D-Lee and a kid or 2. I say this as I don’t think the Cubs will get CC even though I’d drool if they did. If they can acquire a #2/#3 starter for D-Lee, then then can let Demp walk and use the money from him and Howry (oh, BTW, goner) to put towards a CC or Teixeira acquisition. Hoffpauir is the backup if D-Lee is turned into a SP and they don’t get Teixeira.

I’d like to see the Cubs get Roberts and Furcal. Furcal is ‘just’ money, Roberts may be like pulling teeth again especially now if Angelos may want to re-sign him. Orlando Hudson is another 2B/LH guy I’d like to see have some consideration. Think he’s a FA so he’d “only” cost $$$ like Furcal, unlike Roberts. Bottom line is speed at the top, LH batter is a luxury.

Teixeira is my 1B pipe dream. I’m willing to take less defence than D-Lee if it means a LH bat with power in the lineup. Again, like CC – drooling time.

Cedeno is a goner, Fontenot is a keeper. Theriot keeps his spot only if Furcal or other speedier and/or greater power guy can be had. Keep Ward unless there’s a better PH option. Hank White must be re-signed in addition to his option being picked up. He’s soooo valuable for Geo to continue to learn. Getting rid of Geo is like getting rid of Randy Hundley 40 years ago. He’s a total keeper.

Z, Harden and Lilly are already in the fold. Re-sign Woody unless the money demands are prohibitive. Of course Marmol is a main stay and I’ll go out on a limb with the shark. Getting Eyre back is too risky but Cotts should be considered. Wuertz is too risky but I’d like to see Hart develop. Wuertz is like plan-C. Gaudin hopefully won’t run into any more dumpsters. I’ve always liked Marshall and of course Marquis ain’t going nowhere with $10M owed in the final year of the 3-yr deal.

I don’t have strong feel for alternative relievers so I’ll let it go for now.

So resigning guys like Demp and Woody with other players having higher salaries due to the back loading of contracts, I get about $136M for next year. It could max out to nearly $170M if guys like CC, Furcal, Hudson and Teixeira were brought in to replace Demp, Theriot, Fontenot and D-Lee.

Yeah, it’s just a wag and there’s lots of holes but I guess I wouldn’t be against the following lineup:

Furcal – SS
Johnson – CF
Teixeira – 1B
Rami – 3B
Fonzie – LF
Geo – C
Kosuke – RF
Hudson – 2B
pitcher

OK, slam away…

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 11:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Please explain to me this fascination with Rafael Furcal...

Rafael Furcal said no to the Cubs once before. And Rafael Furcal plays for the big money Los Angeles Dodgers who have screaming need for him to remain their everyday shortstop. Some of you make it sould as though Furcal plays on the Washington Nationals who can no longer afford him and it’s been his lifelong dream to play at Wrigley.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Furcal is a SS

who plays good defense, switch-hits, has speed, and can lead-off.

The Cubs need to improve defense, left-handed batting, speed, and lead-off.

Sure he may not be available, but if he is… I think Jim might even like the opportunity to steal Furcal from Ned just as Ned did to Jim 3 years ago.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not going to be available !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you see who the Dodgers played at shortstop this season while Furcal was out???? A bunch of crap that could barely hit .150 !!! There is NO WAY on God’s green earth Rafael Furcal is not re-signed by the Dodgers.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Furcal took the most money before.

Why wouldn’t he do it again?

Furcal’s not like Teixeira (who I don’t believe will be available) in that there is no way the Cubs could outbid the Yankees for him. And Hendry has shown an ability post-McPhail to get his top target in the FA class.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To repeat, Rafael Furcal plays for the Los Angeles Dodgers !!!

The same Dodgers with the same GM (Ned Coletti) who spent $38 million over two years on a washed up Andruw Jones, $45 million on Juan Friggin Pierre and $44 million for a Jason Schmidt who made 6 starts in 2007 and 0 starts in 2008 !!! This is also a Dodger team with a blackhole at shortstop if they let Furcal go. Plus I’m going to take a wild ass guess and say that Furcal likes playing for a Dodger team in La-La land that is starting play in the NLCS.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Nothing to see here. Any post that involves Furcal and Texiera BOTH coming to Chicago is not worth the words.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First, Worf, - I said we WOULDN'T get Teix.

Second, going back to respond to MDBNIU –
Furcal left a team in Atlanta that had a long history of winning, so being on a winning team isn’t a factor in his decision.
Assuming there will be other SSs on the market Ned could live with (Renteria, Hardy), Furcal’s switch-hitting lead-off ability is less valuable to Ned than it is to the Cubs. Ned will overpay, but so will Jim for what he really, really wants. And if I recall this correctly, Andruw Jones wasn’t the Dodgers first choice at CF, but Ned was outbid on his other choice.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that is EXACTLY why he might NOT stay a Dodger

They have a lot of VERY bad VERY big contracts to eat next year and several VERY high priced players they will want to re-sign. They may not have enough to keep Furcal. Manny is going to be the #1 priority and you KNOW he is getting 20 million plus and this year he was FREE. Lowe is also an FA and they will try to keep him but even if they don’t Schmidt is due to make 12 million next year and Kuroda will be getting a 5 million dollar bump to 10 million. Jones, Schmidt & Pierre will be taking down 40 million between them next year. Dodgers also will have to decide if they want to re-sign Blake, Saito & Biemel. Now they do have about 25 million coming OFF in Kent, Nomar & Penny and they have a slew of young players most of whom are NOT yet eligible for arbitration but it would certainly be in their interest to lock down Martin, Billingsley, Loney, Broxton etc if they can. The owners are also notorious cheap skates and the fan base is not strong . I think Furcal could be gotten but the price may well be higher then I personally believe is worth it.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 9, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I respectfully disagree on the availability of Rafael Furcal

Furcal is hugely important asset to the Dodgers as evidenced by his impact coming off of back injury in the NLDS. He’s still relatively young and gives the Dodgers a fine defensive shortstop and the good leadoff hitter that they desperately crave. The Dodgers have never been bashful about spending money. Joe Torre sitting in the dugout tells you all you need to know about their win now philosophy. Plus I have got to believe that Furcal is very happy playing for Torre and the Dodgers. Especially if they go onto further postseason glory.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just like Halliday & Hudson were sure to be traded this year ?

That is what I recall your saying. I think it is a long shot but I would not be so sure Furcal can’t be talked into signing a fat contract but I for one think it would not be a great idea.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 9, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the Dodgers can keep him.

Signing a shortstop with a bad back seems like a bad contract in waiting.

Oh, wait the Dodger already have several of those. Sounds just like the kind of player they’d sign.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh.....

The fact that they have those guys you mentioned suck and have HUGE contracts is more of a reason the Dodgers would NOT be able to sign Rafael Furcal.

At the same time, Ramirez, Z, Lee, Soriano, Lilly, etc. are good reasons why we may not be able to get Furcal either.

by IllinoisCubs on Oct 9, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He took the most money per year before

not the most money overall. He’s a FA at age 31 instead of 33 (Cubs 5 for 50 offer). That counts, that counts a lot.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

again

furcal stays injured constantly.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This isn't true.

Until this year he had played at least 138 games for six consecutive seasons.

I don’t see that as “injured constantly”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

with what we have in theriot

given theriot makes near nothing and we have several holes to fill along with arb raises. is he worth giving a 14 + million contract over 4,5,6 years??

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

I doubt very strongly Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella are seeking upgrade over Ryan Theriot. He’s become a fan favorite and had an exceptional year in 2008. Plus he’s young and cheap.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

overall

from what i’m reading on this board—-sign kerry wood to basically anything,go get furcal, touch base with tex, sign hudson or roberts, change the lineup all around. still leaves us needing a cf,backup catcher,couple bench players, some relievers, no minor leagues who can step up big for a contending team. we also need a top notch starter. all of this with a payroll thats only getting a minor bump from last year.

also gotta remember lilly,dero etc are in the last year of their contracts. are near best player on the team is being paid nothing(soto).

lets all come up with realistic ideas instead of being the yankees. were gonna have to give up to get and were gonna have to take chances with the amount of holes we have. fukudome is a big maybe at this point and no one is taking on that contract.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be so quick to say there are "no minor leagers"

Would anyone have guessed Geovany Soto would become an all-star catcher?

The Cubs DO have some talent in their system. Let’s just see which players develop and how quickly.

How many people wrote off players like Fontenot and Theriot and they became productive MLB players? Now, you candebate whether either should play every day or a reduced role but there is no doubt both are MLB players that can contribute to a team winning.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think its...

…their priority to replace Theriot, but if they could upgrade and knock out the leadoff spot at the same time, I say they would jump at it.

I think its likely either Furcal or Roberts is leading off for the Cubs in 09.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How important is their speed for you?

Would you be ok with Orlando Hudson leading off?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Important...

…but not just speed, they need to be a good baserunner and a lot of guys with speed are not.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How would you feel about Lee or Dome leading off?

Both seem to me to be good baserunners with fair speed.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dome could probabaly do it...

…if he hits a little better next year, but I don’t like Lee as an option. I wouldn’t mind seeing Lee in the 2 hole though.

Even with a weak batting avg, Fukudome still had an OBP over .350. If he could hit .270-280, his OBP is going to be about 100 points higher.

The thing with this is you are taking a bit of a gamble if Fukudome continues to struggle. Also, he is a good baserunner, but he isn’t going to scare anyone as a big time basestealing threat and that can help the pitcher lose focus on the hitters.

I still think they will acquire someone to leadoff.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

100,000 percent

agreed that lee needs to be in the 2 hole next year.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would love to see...

…how Tony LaRussa would make out the Cub’s lineup just one time.

IMO, he is the best at making out lineups and tends to get quite a bit out of what he has.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that someone not on roster will leadoff

because Lou won’t move Soriano w/o having a name player to plug in that spot. There is a small chance that Soriano is traded and Theriot or Dome takes the spot.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Hendry could pull that off...

…it would be his best deal since getting rid of Hundley, especially if they don’t end up eating half the money.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hope and pray

the Angels decide they want Soriano. He’s their type of player.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano is not THE problem with this team...

(batting him 1st might be a problem, but HE is not)

by digitalbenjamin on Oct 9, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree.

But, I’d love to get out from under this contract, and if one of the RH bats will be traded, I’d rather it be Soriano than any of the others.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree also...

…but when you put a 500+ exceptionally streaky power guy in the leadoff spot, that just makes no sense to me what so ever.

Lastly, I would think both Piniella and Hendry would love to launch the guy (and probably some of the players) if they didn’t have to eat too much money, and it would improve the team as a whole. But that ain’t gonna happen.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You'd rather have Gary Matthews Jr?

Because that’s what you’d have to take to get rid of him.

Soriano is signed at or above market value (ok, above). That means you either take a bad contract in return or send money along with him. Either way, expect nothing of value back.

Why get rid of productive players at positions that we did ok at, when we have positions where we got poor production from? CF, RF and SS all produced below average results. The upgrade benefits you as much or more and you don’t have to look at Sarge Jr striking out all the time.

by Wreckard on Oct 9, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want lil Sarge, but I might be willing to take him if the rest of the trade package was good enough.

I do think that the Cubs are better with Adam Dunn in LF and whatever we get in trade for Soriano than with Soriano in LF and Old Man Ibanez in RF.

Would you take the Dave Roberts contract back if we could trade Soriano and Marshall for Matt Cain and Roberts?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're kidding right?

Soriano is signed for more than market value. People don’t take huge expensive contracts and give you fantastic young pitchers in return. If someone wants a $20M / year outfielder they’ll just pay the money for it, not trade their future away.

by Wreckard on Oct 9, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, in dreamland, counting on Sabean to do something stupid is the most realistic element.

But, seriously, the free agent market is extremely weak for a team looking to add a star who will be there when they start to contend again and for Sabean, Soriano is cheap. And Soriano’s price tag is not above market after the Hunter and Rowand deals.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meant to type

“for Sabean, Soriano is young.”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if he's priced at market value

…you give up dollars, not prospects and dollars.

The cost of Soriano’s contract + the cost of prospects is more than anyone would pay. If you trade him there, you maybe get Randy Winn back. Maybe.

by Wreckard on Oct 9, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...and OBP

don’t forget. Can’t steal first though I think Dusty and Corey thought so a couple seasons ago.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...

…thats a given.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hudson

will be a met IMO. minaya covets him badly and they have endless dollars to spend.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so where will the Mets dump Luis Castillo?

he has 3 years left on his deal and wouldn’t fit on their bench.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 9, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

everything

i have read they dont like castillo and they have the money to pay someone to take him. if they so choose.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough.

I knew he had fallen out of favor in NY, but I wonder who would pick him up, even with the Mets paying the majority of his three remaining years.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 9, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if

the money was right I dont think finding him a home would be a problem

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's called...

…quality upgrade. Ugrade leadoff and upgrade the SS position.

Theriot’s defensive shortcomings have floated fairly well so far, but IMO, he has been lucky. That one play (the hit and run) against the Dodgers would have been made by a better SS, and who knows how that effects the game.

If you can knock off SS and leadoff at the sametime, you gotta go for it.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok mph

hypothetically speaking we sign furcal to a 5 yr 75 million contract. our budget is near capacity. how do we fill are other holes. like cf,rf,closer,backup catcher,bench,middle relief, and arb raises?? plus we have great players in the last year of their deals.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll answer like this...

…if finding a legit leadoff man is not Hendry’s number one priority this offseason, he hasn’t been watching the games the last two years. I don’t think that player is on the club, and it needs to be priority one.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but who

furcal will sign for the moon and I think we can all agree on that. right? we are near payroll capacity. agreed?? we have several holes to fill. agreed? can roberts play ss or do you start him at 2nd base and piss off derosa in his walk year. we need to re-sign derosa badly. very very very few players can supersub like he does without little error. platoon dero and dome in rightfield unless dero is needed somewhere else? then what resign reed and edmonds for cf? I’m open to a realistic discussion. lets discuss realistic option in terms of our payroll and availability.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is what we don't know.

How much money does Jim have to play with? I think he’ll have enough to get one large contract and the other smaller things taken care of. I don’t think any owner will tell the Cubs, “No you can’t spend $ to get this team to the WS in the year I might take over ownership.”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but

you gotta think he’ll have somewhere around 10 milion more. crane kenney said he expected a bump in payroll. thats a realistic bump IMO. harden can be traded and that will save 7 million.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we're looking to save $

there are others I’d trade before Harden.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harden

needs to be dumped while he is worth something. I one of his biggest fans but he’s an employee and with that contract he can bring a good return.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not concerned about players feelings...

…I am concerned about filling a BIG hole in the lineup.

DeRosa would still get his AB’s (maybe a little less) if its Roberts, but they have to get a first rate leadoff man.

The money, I have no idea how much Hendry will have, but whatever he has, this should be a priority.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Furcal won't cost anywhere near 5 / $75M

He’s coming off of a major injury where he missed most of the season, and is 3 years old now than he was when he signed his last deal, which was nowhere near that long.

My guess: he gets a similar deal as before. 3 / $36M or 4 / $44M.

by Wreckard on Oct 9, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i disagree

he will get a huge deal.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He didn't when he was younger and healthier

I guess I’m just not sure why he would now.

But hey, I guess we’ll see in a couple of months.

by Wreckard on Oct 9, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

they still have to play at least one more series. Let’s see how he plays and if the Bums continue on to the WS. If Furcal plays well, his $$$ will go up.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Oct 9, 2008 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

everyone is getting...

their hopes up for things that arent realistic.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My hopes aren't up.

I’m just looking at what all the options are.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rafael said no before because of the contract logistics

not because of your reasons. If you cared to take a look back three years ago, he was 28. The Cubs offered him 5 years at about $50M. That while $11M more than the Dodgers 3 for 39 offer would have put him at age 33 at contract conclusion. His chances of scoring one more big contract at age 33 is notably less than at age 31. Notice, the Dodgers didn’t give hime $13M per season for 5 seasons. Now he’s in position to score one more big contract at age 31. That counts, that matters and it has nothing to do with the Cubs themselves.

DGU below is 95% right on below, but Ned didn’t steal Furcal as much as Furcal and his agent knew that the 5 years offered by the Cubs (and Braves too for that matter) while very good, would have meant less chance of scoring one more big payday.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even with the back injury aside,

I have the same reservations about the Cubs signing Furcal as I did 3 years ago.

There still is the fact he has a drinking problem. With all of the day games at Wrigley, that just seems like a bad fit.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not aware of a single issue with drinking

In his 3 years in LA.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 9, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dodger Stadium is not the party atmosphere

that Wrigleyville is. I’m not saying this WILL be an issue, just that it is a concern and why I had reservations when the Cubs attempted to sign him 3 years ago.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so how many players do you see hanging out in Wrigleyville after games?

I’d say the days of Mark Grace walking over to Hi-Tops and Randy Myers riding his three-wheeled bike to Murphy’s are pretty much over. Seems to me after games most players just get into their cars and head out. Not saying they don’t go somewhere and have a few drinks, but I don’t think it’s happening in Wrigleyville. So I’d say the party atmosphere is a non-factor.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are many reasons why he might be available.

1) The Dodgers pony up enough big stupid money for Manny Ramirez. If they did this, they’d hamstring their budget (and outfield defense…) and may not be able to afford him, instead passing him up for their cheap internal option of…
2) Chin-Lung Hu is still an extremely highly rated prospect for them. I know you seem to believe that any minor leaguer who doesn’t experience success immediately at the major league level is a worthless piece of garbage (see your opinions on Pie, Laroche, etc) but Hu was thrown into the fire this season out of desperation. He wasn’t ready then, but may be now.

My prediction: the Dodgers sign Ramirez to a big stupid deal based on his performance this year. They let Furcal go to free agency, and deem Hu his replacement, picking up Berroa’s option year as a backup plan.

by Wreckard on Oct 9, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

the Dodgers may go the Hu route also because of the marketing potential he possesses. McCourt comes from Boston, and as a businessman, he’s surely seen how the Red Sox and Yankees increased their marketing revenue by having an Asian player on the roster.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 9, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crikey...

And I see that your strategy does not include Cub MVP for 2008, Mark DeRosa !!! Unbelievable.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

Derosa is starting somewhere on the diamond for the Chicago Cubs in 2009.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 9, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, slam away…

Furcal – Won’t be available
Teixeira – I think it’s pretty safe to say the Yankees and Angels are going to be front runners for Mark, not us. And honestly, I think Mark is a marginal – if that – upgrade over Derrek. Both have much higher than average OPS+, multiple Gold Gloves, and can lead a team.

And you’re completely disregarding no-trade clauses and other contract issues. I’m sorry, this post is just…blah.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed....

No chance Rafael Furcal escapes the clutches of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Mark Texiera is the superstar free agent this winter. His agent Scott Boras says the bidding needs to start in the $180 million range minimum. Texiera grew up in Maryland a huge Baltimore Orioles fan. He has long professed a wish to play for the Orioles. A point he reiterated aroudn the All-Star break. I think the bidding will come down to the New York Yankees and Orioles. I dont’ see the Angels being a serious player even though they have the big money to do so. They’ll move onto plan B at 1st base.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't know that about the Orioles...

But it would be classic Boras. Take the money and in two years, whine that his guy is on a bad team and steer the guy to the Yankees/Red Sox, etc..

Hey, Mark… the shuttle from New York to Baltimore is like 50 minutes…

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tex may go to the O's, but it's no sure bet

They’re rebuilding, and spending big money on a free agent like Tex is the Orioles old way of doing things – the kind of bad decision making they’re supposed to be moving away from.

That said, you just never know with them – Angelos loves to make stupid decisions (see: Brian Roberts still in a O’s uniform).

You’re obviously completely unfamiliar with the Dodgers’ farm situation if you truly think there is “no chance” that Furcal reaches free agency. But hey, don’t let me stop you from making uninformed proclamations.

by Wreckard on Oct 9, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're assuming the Dodgers want to resign Furcal.

Remember, he’s coming off major back surgery.

The Dodgers have all of his medical reports and I wouldn’t be so sure they’re going to resign him, particularly since they’ve have several dud contracts in recent years. (Nomar, Schmidt, Jones)

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who said

Furcal will not be available? I didn’t hear that; please enlighten me.

Teixeira can bat LH, don’t dismiss that portion.

Of course NT clauses can figure in, they do often. I did say Teixeira was the pipe dream.

If the post is blah, OK, I’m waiting to hear from you on specific names.

Please don’t do a bluemike and just state the blatently obvious needs without substance.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One quibble - Teix is a substantially better defender than Lee.

By any metric.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 9, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is safe to say that Hendry won't be engineering a major makeover this winter...

Rather he is likely to pick at the edges. Meaning…

1. Sign Ryan Dempster to new contract (a move that I am loathe to make based on the $$$ he is going to get)
2. Sign Kerry Wood to new contract (another move that could come up snake eyes)
3. Sign Reed Johnson to new contract
4. Acquire a left-handed hitting run producer
5. Add middle relief candidates
6. Make decision on Jim Edmonds
7. Wave goodbye to Bob Howry, Jon Lieber, Daryl Ward, Michael Wuertz

I would love for Hendry to move Derrek Lee but that isn’t going to happen in Hendry-land. I would also be delirious of Alfonso Soriano voluntarily retired to open up a surf shop in the Dominican, but again that’s not going to happen. Kosuke Fukudome also isn’t going to leave us to go play for his former Japanese team.

Ryan Theriot? He’ll be back at shortstop despite the proclamations to the contrary on this board. He’s one of Lou’s favorites, is an ignitor, hit .300 w/ an OBP of .385, can run and is cheap.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep. I'd have to agree

with MDBNIU/Blue Mike.

If he has the $ allocated, I would think if DLee would agree to a NT waiver, perhaps we are a match with the Angels – the other team that flopped miserably after a great “regular season”.

by The E-Man on Oct 9, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ignitor = Scaptastic

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name names

on 4 & 5 then replacements for 7.

Anyone can come up with what you said. Duh, they need a LH power hitter. Duh, they need middle relief.

And the biggest duh wasn’t even mentioned…..leadoff hitter.

It’s cool to critique but please add substance.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I posted this the other day….. there will be little changes and I think what you proposed is very likely, especially with Theriot. I would say a run at Roberts will be made and the left handed bat will probably be an outfield platoon. with DeRosa playing outfield and super sub.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Oct 9, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Methinks

A run for Roberts is stupid. We have multiple players that can play 2B, and a run at Brian hurts DeRosa’s overall value to this team.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't worry, the Brian Roberts ship has sailed...

Hack Wilson stands a better chance of making a comeback than does the chances of either Brian Roberts or Rafael Furcal becoming member of the Cubs.

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard he took shovel over to the cemetary where Hack lies

"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)

by MDBNIU on Oct 9, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OOooh, is he still available?

We could use the #4 hitter between Lee and Aramis.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK...

Orlando Hudson. Better fielder, much faster. This can allow DeRo to spell Rami more and be a good plan-B if Kosuke-san falters.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post Al.

Just the other day I saw Theriot posing on a perfect bunt. He was thrown out by 65 feet——later intentionally walked in retaliation.-Hammer

by JEROMEWALTON'SBATTINGSTANCE on Oct 9, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There are a few hole we can improve on...

… and it will make this team better. Still, the heart and sole of this team will be back. There is no doubt about it.

by TheHawkRules on Oct 9, 2008 11:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"That's the only flaw I see in Hendry's game."

Flaw #2:

handing out no trade clauses and option years like they’re candy

Jim is the not best negotiator when it comes to the “details” of a contract

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 11:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

At the same time...

… over the last two seasons, this has produced results. I said when Soriano was signed to the huge back-loaded contract that, if the Cubs won it all within the first 2-3 years of that deal, none of us would care about years 6, 7 and 8.

They’ve got one more year to prove my statement right.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because I'm not as crabby as I was this morning

If they don’t win it all next year, your statement is logically true.

If they do, I still think most will agree with you.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, some people will care...

… it will be the what have you done for me lately attitude.

by TheHawkRules on Oct 9, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

so you’ve got what a 10% chance of being right (assuming the Cubs are listed at 10:1)

as much as i hope you’re right, odds are much more in the favor of us feeling the pain of those contracts without a championship

I’m in the business of evaluating investment managers and we always focus on the process rather than the results. It’s the same thing here. I’d take the guy with the good process and the bad results right now over the guy with the terrible process and the recently good results.

At some point the results will catch up to the process, and I’d prefer to have the right process in place than hoping upon hope we get lucky

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the no-trade clauses for D-Lee and Aramis really matter anymore,

Hendry was willing to give them because both players would have 10 & 5 rights at some point in those contracts (and I believe both players now have vested 10 & 5 rights).

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair point

and a good one I hadn’t thought of.

i still think you’d have to admit it seems as if he hands them out with regularity

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sports = business?

I think what Al is getting at is the fact that in the modern world, sports franchises are increasingly run like large corporations. The teams that win, for better or worse, are ones that have large, streamlined, highly-paid professional staffs, and efficient, ruthless, rational systems. Look at the Red Sox – they started winning when the new owners poured money, MBA thinking, and “business” know-how into the organization. The fact that Cubs are still run like a small-time, local, family-owned operation puts them at a disadvantage. Sadly, if you want to win, you need to run your team like Microsoft, or Wal-Mart, or Disney. Think big, act big, become impersonal, corporate and faceless. This, in my opinion, would be a DISASTER for the Cubs. The only reason most of us love the Cubs is because they’re OUR team, not the team of some soulless efficiency experts, accountants, lawyers and “marketers.” Do you really want to become the Red Sox? They lost their soul when they won the World Series, and are now the Microsoft of baseball teams (I guess that makes the Yankees the GM of teams – coughing up blood and trying to spend their way back to the top). It’s not about money – it’s about the soul of the team. Personally, I’ll take 100 more years of losing over a World Series bought by turning the Cubs into the CUBS (registered trademark all rights reserved) any more than they already have been. I live in L.A., and this is what the Dodgers did when they moved here – they turned into a huge, anonymous, clean, professional, faceless, reliable, soulless corporation. You go to the games here and it’s like going to Disneyland – you know exactly what you’re going to get, it’s pleasant, it’s a nice way to spend three hours, now get the hell out of the parking lot of the security guards will kick you out – you’re on PRIVATE PROPERTY!

by pjm_in_LA on Oct 9, 2008 11:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I want to become the Red Sox...

… at least the version that’s won two WS in the last four years and has a shot at another one this year.

I don’t see them as having lost their soul. How do you see that?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the Dodgers...

Have won, what, four World Series’ since they moved to L.A.?

If all it takes to have that is my soul, here you go.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They (Red Sox) haven't changed...

…it’s how we view them that as changed. They are no longer constant “losers” like they had been labeled. For the past…well, several years now, they have been the best team in baseball. ’nuff said.

by TheHawkRules on Oct 9, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Red Sox aren't souless

If anything, they’ve found a soul by adhering to a strict plan based on making the playoffs 4 out of every 5 years and putting themselves in position to replace older, expensive veterans with young, developed prospects.

Their expansive scouting staff has blended advanced stats with older scouting, leading to them being able to blend personalities, talents and all the other ingredients it takes to win.

If the Cubs could do this (and in some areas they have), it would go a long way towards building a continually competitive franchise that won’t go back to relying on the park to attract fans.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Oct 9, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No soul lost on Yawkey Way

Good org, good GM, great team, great ballpark. And 2004, 2007 & 2008 WS champions. That hat-trick year is just a hunch.

The Dodgers, well that soul left the body when the team left Brooklyn. Same for the Giants & A’s.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Posted in another thread, but

I’m a Cubs fan for reasons other than the “long-suffering” bit. As someone else said, Dallas Green was right — build a new tradition.

The Cubs aren’t who I am — they aren’t who any of us are. They are, have been and will continue to be my favorite baseball team. I want that team to win the World Series. Not once; as often as possible. If that means that we have less cult favorites like Mark Grace and more players like Albert Pujols (for an example; I realize he ain’t coming to Chicago), so be it.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, they're all yours, then...

Ok, if you root for a team only because you want and expect it it to win, be all means do so. That’s not why I root for the Cubs, however, and I suspect it’s not why most Cubs fans do – if it was, they’d be LONG gone by now. If the Cubs left Wrigley Field, changed their uniforms, got entirely new personnel on and of the field, and then left Chicago, would they still be the Cubs? Of course not! The Cubs (and any team) are an IDEA. We root for the Cubs, not for the “champion” Cubs – because there is no such thing! You don’t think the Red Sox have changed since they won!? They are pretty much universally despised by everyone I know as the new Yankees. Winning or losing has NOTHING to do with my enthusiasm for the Cubs. It’s like your family – do you love them less when they’re annoying losers? Of course not – they’re your FAMILY – you HAVE to love them – it’s part of who you ARE! Do you only love your Mom when she gives you good presents for your birthday? I love the Cubs even when they give me a lump of coal… for 100 STRAIGHT birthdays!

by pjm_in_LA on Oct 9, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said they'll continue to be my favorite team

But if them winning makes you not want to root for them, well, in the same vein as the header in your response, au revvoir.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees

Spend spend spend mostly on free agents. The Red Sox, have done that too, but they also have some incredible in house talent they have developed. Sorry to burst any bubbles but if the Cubs ever performed in post-season like the Red Sox, there would be droves more fans that would jump on the bandwagon. And in L.A. what fan stays 3 hours at the game? Also, the Cubs have long been the only team which has the “Registered Trademark” symbol on thier uniforms – and have since the late 70’s early 80s.
Just Sayin’

by StevenABQ on Oct 9, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's my point!

What fan would stick around for three hours after a game, drinking a beer (or two) and talking about the game and about life? A Cubs fan! That’s what makes Wrigley Field so great – you actually CAN stick around after a game (okay, maybe not inside the park). That’s what makes the Cubs (and Wrigley Field) so great! If the Cubs ever moved, I think they would lose their identity completely. It may sound crazy, but I think the ballpark is the most important component of any team – much more important than the players.. The players come and go, but the ballpark is why the fans keep coming back. It’s about the community. Move the Cubs to Schaumburg and win 10 World Series in a row and the Cubs will be drawing 8,000 fans a game after five years. You go to a sporting event to be part of a community, not to see one side win or lose. Would you really love the Cubs more, or feel like more of a Cubs fan if they won the World Series? I know I wouldn’t. I don’t want them to lose, but neither do I particularly NEED them to win…

by pjm_in_LA on Oct 9, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um 3 hours AT THE GAME

Dodger fans show up late and leave early. They NEVER stay after a game and would have no where to go if they did.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 9, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would say

I agree that I do not want to see the Cubs move their park anywhere else. But I find the notion of being satisfied with just the Wrigley experience, the history of the club, etc. to be quite problematic. I love the game of Baseball, I grew up being a Cubs fan, but first and foremost I love the game. So yes I want to see my team win, and I am more than ready to see a dominating Cubs team consistently win. Will it make me feel better as a Cubs fan HELL YEAH. The team is in a position to reward the fans with a hell of alot more than a “great baseball experience” they are poised to provide championships. For the team to not do everything it can to have a winning team on the field would be a disservice to the fans…that is the reponsibility of management to try to create a winning combination. IMHO.

by StevenABQ on Oct 9, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sports=Business

One of the reasons the Red Sox, with Brian Epstein (and now the Rays) and Harvard M.B.A.’s are building winners.

by The E-Man on Oct 9, 2008 12:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Errr

You mean Theo Epstein right??? Wasn’t Brian Epstein the guy that worked with the Beatles?

by StevenABQ on Oct 9, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought that was Juan Epstein

and I have a note somewhere from his mother to prove it…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless

he was thinking of Julius Epstein, of the famed Epstein brothers who wrote Casablanca.

by StevenABQ on Oct 9, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Signed, Epstein's Mother

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Oct 9, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was their first manager

and died of some weird thing at a very young age. I do not believe it was a freak gardening accident, however.

Tommie Agee was out.

by Weeghman Park on Oct 9, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Epstein OD'd on tranquilizers

He was emotionally troubled, self-loathing, and incessantly worried that the Beatles would not renew his contract to manage them when it expired at the end of 1967. Some say it was really a suicide. One thing is for sure, though – Brian Epstein’s demise accelerated the business problems that played a major role in the band’s breakup.

Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.

by CaliCub on Oct 11, 2008 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Argument

Can someone help settle a discussion?

My brother and I were talking about Soriano. I swear back in 2000 that’s who we were going to get as a big piece of the Sosa trade proposed with the Yankees. He said it wasn’t.

Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Oct 9, 2008 12:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He was rumored to be

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn. Too bad that didn't go through.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 11, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Word is that Yankee execs talked George out of it

knowing that Sosa wouldn’t fit in with the Yankee way of doing things (patient at-bats, not trying to do it all yourself).

Never, but NEVER, put ketchup on a hot dog.

by CaliCub on Oct 11, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that's consistent with what I'd heard

But to have Lilly for that many more years, and a productive Nick Johnson – and most likely wouldn’t have signed Soriano to the hand-tying contract that he has now . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 11, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting post, Al.

If you had just said that the Cubs’ front office employs 128 people, I would have thought, “Wow, that’s a lot.” I would never have thought to even consider that correlation. Good food for thought.

Another part of your post, about the potential owners also gave me pause. How are people who believe in the curse, et al, going to react to the potential owner having the same name as either a communist nation or a bone disease? LOL

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 12:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I know you were joking...

… but see, that’s exactly the kind of thinking we have to get the mass media to STOP doing.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Analagy

I love the housing analagy.

I look at it like my house. We have a very nice house but it needs to be jazzed up to fit our needs.

Do we go and get a brand new house when we have a really good one now?

No we’re making changes and renovations so the new house (Coincidentally the work is starting next week and will be done in the spring) will look very much the same on the surface but different too.

Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Oct 9, 2008 12:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think sometimes people with lots and lots of money,

like baseball owners, do.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

though stereotypical, most owners have large egos: money, earned through success or genetics, combined with the competitive drive or need for publicity that would cause someone to buy a team.

I think some, if not most, of owners have a desire to change things enough so that they can say “this is my team, look at the success because of my changes”

by TC Cubby on Oct 9, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well if you wait another 6-12 months

you can get a great house at almost half off as the housing crisis will continue well into 2009.

Can’t remember the answer to your year 2000 Sosa trade question…

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Actually another reason is right now our house will sell but we would never get near real value. Also it’s a family home so to speak as it is the home I grew up in we bought from my mother.

Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Oct 9, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mark Cuban Buying the Cubs

Would be great for baseball and the Cubs……You notice the flux of changes in the strike zone call by Umps….man I would like to see him challange that calling out Bud “say don’t spray it” Selig…..and to have a passionate owner…and passionate fans we are…this would be one owner who would HATE TO LOSE!!!!!
New fresh new start….
…With a small Mgnt. staff it just shows how cheap the Cubs can be as well….

When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."
– Jacob August Riis (San Antonio Spurs Locker Room Motto)

by Cubspursboys on Oct 9, 2008 12:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Again

I thought the whole Cuban thing was pretty much over. Your call for him to challenge Selig is exactly why he doesn’t stand the chance of owning any team – Selig and the rest of baseball owners would not be in favor.

by StevenABQ on Oct 9, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs