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Building A Cubs Champion: Managing Management

Yelloncard_tiny by Al on in The Next 100 Years

Think back two weeks.

Just after the Cubs clinched the NL Central, even as they were resting players and struggling through the last week, most if not all of us were praising Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella for building a near-juggernaut that won more games than any Cubs team in 63 years and was likely the best Cubs team in 73, if not longer.

They seemed deep and well-balanced and built for a long postseason run.

Didn't happen, of course. So are you among those who are calling for wholesale changes, both on and off the field? If you are, I think you're making a mistake.

The club is going to be sold within the next few months -- although if you go back and read what Sam Zell supposedly wanted to do, it should have been sold more than six months ago, so who knows for sure -- and I know there are some who think that whoever the new owner turns out to be, should dump everyone and start over.

To which I say, "Huh?" You just witnessed the Cubs win the most games they have won in two consecutive seasons (182) in exactly seventy years (since 1937-38), and you want to tear it down and begin again? Why?

Instead, I would call on new ownership to keep everyone who's built this team -- because thanks to Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella, they have put together a club that should, with minor tweaks, be able to continue to contend for the long haul -- and add to the front office staff.

That's one thing the Cubs have always trailed the major leagues in -- year-round, full-time employees that can make a difference, particularly in baseball operations and scouting. Look at the team's front office list -- I counted 128 full-time employees. That's nearly dead last among all thirty teams. The Dodgers, who just blew the Cubs out of the playoffs, list 182 full-timers; the Red Sox, who Crane Kenney keeps saying he wants to see the Cubs emulate, have 178; and the Rays, who just came out of nowhere and might still win it all this year, have 160. Only the Marlins, with 110 (don't be fooled by the long list -- many of those are interns or seasonal employees like gameday personnel), have fewer year-round, full-time employees than the Cubs.

Increasing the scouting and baseball operations staffs, in particular, might get new voices involved and help current staffers who are overworked. For some of you who think I'm not statistically oriented, I acknowledge the need to look at advanced metrics in modern baseball -- in conjunction with scouting reports -- and hope that new ownership would put people in place that would lend their expertise in this area, just as the Red Sox did when they brought Bill James on board several years ago (in fact, it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to swipe James himself from Boston). I like the job Jim Hendry and Co. have done, but I will say that Hendry, a former baseball coach, has a tendency to rely too much on "tools" rather than actual baseball skills -- resulting in too many chances being given to players like Corey Patterson (and maybe Felix Pie, though I say the jury's still out on him). That's the only flaw I see in Hendry's game.

So to Mark Cuban or the Ricketts group or whoever winds up owning the Cubs in the near future: don't tear the building down. Put a shiny new addition on it. That's how I see a perennial winner being built on the North Side of Chicago.

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As has been stated earlier

due to contracts, you can’t ‘dump’ most of the players. Most here think in fantasy baseball terms, and want the impossible.

First. Time. Ever.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 9, 2008 9:56 AM CDT   1 recs

your first time ever

and you wrote something of substance, not just saying, “first”; good man, good comment.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I just have a bad feeling about the crowd's attitude at Wrigley next year

If this team faulters slightly, the fans are going to boo///criticize crazily i think..

2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..

by Chanman25 on Oct 9, 2008 9:57 AM CDT   0 recs

It's October 9th.

Our first game at Wrigley is April 13th. That’s six full months. Time heals, and I think come six months from now, we will still be excited about our core group of players. A tad early, IMO, to start predicting how we are gonna feel in six months.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

True...

But some wounds never completely heal. Let’s say the ’09 Cubs get off to a slow start, I can see fans getting ugly.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Oct 9, 2008 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A question to the group.....

Now that the season has ended in a spectacularly disastrous manner, I would like to ask the collective wisdom of the group – “what is wrong with booing?” This is something that I have wondered for awhile but have never asked because my flame-retardant blogging suit has been at the cleaners. Everyone talks (rightly so) about the electric atmosphere at Wrigley; how the fans stand and cheer when the count gets to 2 strikes on a batter in the early innings; how the fans have started singing “Go Cubs Go” after a victory. Fans cheer and sing to show their pleasure after a good play or a good game or series and this is OK. When these same fans boo because of bad play or poor performance they are blasted. Why? If cheering is the vocal manifestation of pleasure for good performance, isn’t booing the equivalent expression for poor performance? Being a fan for a long time and seeing both good and bad performance, I both cheer and boo. In my mind, this does not make me a better or worse fan then others.

Sorry to hijack the thread but inquiring minds want to know.

Football and basketball are just things to do between baseball seasons.

by MetsSuck on Oct 9, 2008 11:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nothing wrong at all with booing

I personally only boo stupid play and/or lack of effort. (Or, I try to only do that)

But I have no problem with booing. You paid for your ticket.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

nothing at all wrong with booing.

i’ve had enough of just sitting on my hands and accepting the poor play.
i want a team that only wants to dominate the the team they are playing against every day.
i hate the thought of just doing my job attitude. at the prices this team is charging for us to go and watch them, we should expect EXCELLENCE!
I’M SICK OF WAITING FOR NEXT YEAR! i look back at the hundreds of tickets i’ve bought over my life and the thousands of dollars i’ve spent, and i have to ask myself why should i do it anymore.
i love baseball, and i love to watch it live and in person, but i’m thinking i can do alot better by driving an hour closer to my home and watching minor league baseball at a fraction of the cost.
I LOVE THE CUBS. i cant see myself rooting for another MLB team, but i cant see spending thousands of dollars on a team that wont win.
maybe i’ll change my mind depending on the new owner, and the changes that have to be made for next year, but only time will tell.

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Oct 9, 2008 12:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

what's the benefit of it?

how does it help the team?

our jobs as fans of a team are to try to do everything we can to help them

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 11:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If that's the case, then why ever say anything negative

at all. If nothing else, a fan should be able to express their feelings, whether negative or positive.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Oct 9, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would think our job as fans

is to buy tickets to provide money for the team to get players. The players’ job is to provide entertainment.
Booing is part of the give and take. It’s just that sometimes, the booing comes too quickly. If that happens and booing all the time, it becomes meaningless. Another thing is that sometimes booing plus too much beer can lead to ugliness.
I don’t like to boo unless there has been prolonged poor play. One error is not that. But after almost two full games of really bad play, I would have been booing by the seventh or eighth inning. For me, when I boo, it’s as much to let the manager/management know that what they are putting out there is unacceptable. Once you’ve paid for your ticket, it is really the only way to let them know. Not buying future tickets won’t work, because someone else will buy it, instead.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 12:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Errors are just that - errors

Nobody wants to make an error. They happen.

Lack of effort, not running hard on a ground ball, staring at what you think is a home run but is really only a ball off the wall, etc… – those things are boo-worthy…

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Oct 9, 2008 1:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would add...

Boo stupidity.

If some guy throws to the wrong cutoff man, I don’t care how hard he ran to get to the ball in the first place.

If a hitter swings at a 3-0 pitch after the pitcher has walked two other guys and hits a little chopper, the fact that he hustled to make it a close play at first means nothing to me.

I try to just boo stupidity and effort. I really do.

But I don’t blame people for getting frustrated, either.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Oct 9, 2008 1:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok...

but if you were booing in game 2 of the playoffs are you booing the management? the same management that put in place a team that won 97 games??

i just think booing in itself is pointless, as Marmol said its not like he’s trying to screw up

if you’re booing poor effort I’m all for it, it expresses a level of disgust with the type of effort you expect

If you’re going to boo performance you could literally boo ANYONE at any point in the season. All players go through slumps, etc… and what the heck is the point of that? It’s not like they’re trying to suck

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 9, 2008 1:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would grant you that point

that by the time the playoffs are happening, there’s nothing you can do. The booing is just venting ( and I would love to hear Seinfeld do a bit on why the syllable “boo” and not some other syllable?). I’m sure that there were as many fans at Wrigley booing as there were fans silently shaking their heads in dismay and disbelief.
I truly wonder if fans hadn’t booed and expressed themselves in other forums at the end of 2006, would management have thought things were fine, especially if they were still buying tickets. If so, the Cubs might still have Dusty Baker as manager. And in May of 2007, maybe the booing let Lou know that he had the fans behind him and he could rip into the players.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 4:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I am more trying to imply, that the atmosphere at Wrigley may be extremely tight next season

if this team doesn’t play well to start off. I mean last season we were all WS bound or bust, and you could tell that from the first game..

2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..

by Chanman25 on Oct 9, 2008 11:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Booing also...

lets the team and manager know when you’ve had enough. I booed Howry often, because I was sick of seeing Lou pitch this guy when he clearly has nothing left. How many times can you watch this guy try to paint the outside corner with his 89mph fastball and watch it go out of the park without trying to stop Lou from inflicting him on us?

"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all." -B. Dylan

by Wood20K on Oct 9, 2008 6:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Cubs will be so fine in 2009!

The team is solid with a tune up here and there (1 more quality starter), bullpen help for Marmol and Woody, an annulment of the Dome Deal, and we should be pretty well set for another run. The entire team, including Hendry and Company have done a fantastic job. I was born the same year Mr. Cub was a rookie in the NL and this is definitely the best team I have seen, bar none. They just shut it down after clinching, gave the Brew Crew the WC and blew the Mets out of th playoffs (Yeah! for ’69) and just could not get the torque up after idling for a week. The Bums were tweaked and had Torre on the controls so they blew by us off the line and never looked back. That said, we are all in this for the duration, eBay bids aside, I was born a Cub Fan and will Die a Cub Fan, hopefully with a WS win in my lifetime…soon!

Mike=Milton+Eamus Catuli = AC000000

by Cub's Paperboy on Oct 9, 2008 3:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The annulment of the Dome deal?

You make it sound like that’s no big deal.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 9, 2008 4:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It may not be a big deal.

While nothing is happening right now, do NOT be surprised if Dome goes back to Japan. Remember: once you get into Lou’s doghouse it is very difficult to get out. I don’t think Lou wants him on the team, and that will produce considerable pressure for a buyout.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 9:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Is this

your opinion or something you’ve got a tip on?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 10:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, okay, but

a buyout is not an annulment. I know you didn’t make the original statement. I was thinking that maybe I missed some big news about K. F.

"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse

by mattvegas on Oct 10, 2008 2:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How do the Cubs compare when you narrow it to the relevant departments

and forget about marketing and IT, etc.? It would be interesting to know how they compare just considering the total of Basbeall Operations, Minor League Department, and Scouting Department.

The Cubs do have a stat guy, Chuck Wasserstrom, but he’s a former PR guy who read Moneyball (or so it seemed when they created that new job for him a couple of years ago).

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 9, 2008 10:02 AM CDT   0 recs

It's every department.

Take a look at the links for the teams I linked above.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just think

they could hire another 30 baseball people for the cost of Neifi Perez’s last contract.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Oct 9, 2008 10:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dont need to tear down the whole thing

We have some players who could be a good core for this team but I think there does need to be a few significant changes in spots. Not start over, but revamp a little bit.

Also, good point Al, the cubs need to do a better job in baseball operations and scouting. We saw how scouting can be a great tool, the dodgers knew all of the cubs’ weaknesses and kept pounding them.

by cubsmania on Oct 9, 2008 10:11 AM CDT   0 recs

I do think people are jumping the gun when saying:

-Carlos Zambrano is not effective anymore, look at his stats and he is going downhill!
-Trade Aramis Ramirez and Alfonso Soriano!
-Team is not the problem, TEAR Wrigley down!

I do think that if it is possible we should go after Texeira. I love Lee as a player, but he is getting only older and his power is diminishing. I mean I am content with keeping Lee, but if we could get a better player instead..

2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..

by Chanman25 on Oct 9, 2008 10:20 AM CDT   0 recs

Yes, I think it would be hyper exaggeration to say that everyone/most want to tear the whole team apart

Gaging from the comments it appears that most want to move Soriano and Lee down in the lineup. Some including myself want the Cubs to be OPEN to the possibility of trading Lee.

by cubsnlinux on Oct 9, 2008 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

DLee is the only one who hit during the playoffs

Look at the numbers and you will see DLee can hold his head up for the way he hit in the playoffs…more than others can say

by HawaiiCubFan on Oct 9, 2008 2:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Mark DeRosa would like a word with you.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 9, 2008 2:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just a few tweaks needed...

The Cubs won 97 games because of strong starting pitching and great bullpen work. And they stayed relatively healthy all year long. The offense was solid and BALANCED. No one player was responsible for carrying the team. When DeLee and Dome struggled, Soto, Edmonds and Aram were there to pick up the load.

Hendry has always done what he felt was best to make the team better (i.e. Reed Johnson and Rich Harden) and I don’t think that will change. Onward and upward…

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Oct 9, 2008 10:22 AM CDT   0 recs

"Hendry has always done what he felt was best to make the team better"

Hendry had been guilty of holding on to under performing players far too long until their trade value is completely diminished.

by cubsnlinux on Oct 9, 2008 10:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The key to a successful GM is to make more positive moves than negative.

Every GM will make moves that don’t work out but they can’t be afraid to make a mistake or they will become paralysed to making ANY decision.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Oct 9, 2008 11:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hendry has also been guilty

of bringing in most of our superstar players, like DeRo, Aramis, Lee, Soriano, etc. Don’t forget to highlight his positives, too.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2008 11:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually

Actually I think it was Al who mentioned he is responsible for every player on the 40 man roster. He’s been with the organization since 1995. I wonder how things might have been different if MacPhail had just done the GM duties at first not hired Lynch and brought Hendry along.

Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Oct 9, 2008 11:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Most of the core...

…is staying put and you couldn’t move them if you wanted to.

Would I recommend whole changes if you could? No I wouldn’t. It is not the quantitiy of changes that matters now, but the quality of the change.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT   0 recs

Precisely.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 9, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you think it is just the no trade clauses that make them unmoveable?

Because the contracts aren’t looking so bad after Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse, not to mention Juan Pierre and GM Jr. out there.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 11:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

For the most part yes...

…no trades are not impossible to deal with, but they really cut off the flexibility you have to shop someone if they give you 20 teams they won’t go to.

The other piece is this, when you go to that player to get their list of approved teams, your basically saying we don’t want you anymore.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 9, 2008 12:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Could something like this happen?

Could the Cubs sit Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez all down together and say – we want to keep all three of you, but we need to get a LH bat in – which of you would be willing to waive your NT clause and to which teams?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 12:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No

Put yourself as the GM of another team and you’re trying to improve your team, keeping mindful for the most part of your budget as well as the desire to hang on to your quality young talent.

Now look at the big three on the Cubs – Soriano, Lee, Ramirez – and take into account their age, contracts and production trends.

In all seriousness, the only one I would want to trade for is Ramirez.

Now if the Cubs start chipping in some $ to help with the contracts, that may change my thinking. But based on talent moving forward, Ramirez is the only one I would be willing to give up something to get something.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2008 1:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Putting myself in another GM's spot

I would trade for Lee or Ramirez. Lee’s two year contract is nice. 13 mill for Lee is not expensive compared to Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, Gary Matthews Jr. etc.

There may also be someone willing to take Soriano, precisely because of his production trend. He’s holding steady and looks like he may “age like a greyhound.”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 1:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wow - are you comparing Lee to AJones, Rowand, and GMatthews Jr.?

Of course Lee is not expensive compared to those guys… but who would want those guys? besides the idiot GMs that signed each of them, that is…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2008 4:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The point is not that Lee is no good

The point is that Lee’s contract is short and relatively inexpensive.
Let’s say you’re a GM. You need a 1B. You work for the Yankees, Orioles, Giants, or Angels.
You can get in on the Teix bidding for 10 years and 20 M.
You can go cheap on Nomar, Casey, Millar, etc.
You can give Hinske the Jacque Jones contract (plus inflation) and get JJ production.
You can give Giambi an Andruw-like contract (and just maybe get Andruw like production).
And then Jim Hendry calls you and says, "Derrek Lee could be on the market at 2/26.
You’re not going to be very interested in that option, especially if you are the team that loses the Teix bidding?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 9, 2008 7:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You can't use the Yankees or the Orioles in your scenario

those franchises defy all realms of logic. They could do just about anything under the sun (and moon and stars) and it wouldn’t surprise me. But if I’m a GM of one of the other 27 teams, no, I am not interested in DLee at 2/26.

I would certainly check with my baseball people, but based on what I know now, there is nothing I see that leads me to believe that DLee will even come close to approaching his 2006esque numbers again. For my 2/26, I have to assume I’m going to get 2008esque numbers. And that’s not worth 13M a year. Cubs would have to pitch in a few $M to make it happen – get it under $10M a year and I might start thinking about it.

I like DLee and I’m glad he’s on the Cubs and I’m hoping my thinking is closer to reality than yours because I think he can turn it around. I like his defense and I think he’s even better in the clubhouse as a quiet leader. Those things are all very appealing in his current situation with the Cubs.

But if I’m a GM of another team, I can’t count on any of those things transferring over if I sign him. I have to look at his baseball skills and what his production will be for the next two years. And there are much better ways to spend $13M a year for 2 years. Besides, if I don’t have a Micah Hoffpauir-type in my own system, I don’t deserve to be a GM.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 6:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But the point is

that you don’t get to spend 13 M for ONLY two years for anyone but a guy in a situation like DLee’s.

And it’s also precisely the point that you and I both think DLee can turn it around which will also be in other GM’s minds. Lee has a great track record of health and success on both sides of the diamond.

If all you’re talking about is pitching in 6 M on Lee, he is extremely tradeable.

As for the 4 teams, I mentioned, they’re the ones with holes at 1B and 3 out of the 4 will definitely be willing to spend at the position.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2008 8:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not sure I understand your first sentence, but my point is simply this

I don’t think any GM will want to spend 26M over the next two years for DLee.

It’s too much money for questionable production. Yes, it’s ONLY two years, but that’s two years I could putting that chunk of change towards another position on my team where (IMO) I am more confident of getting my money’s worth.

But forget about whether you or I think he’s “tradeable”. Let’s deal in reality: Is he going to be traded? Yes or No.

I say No. And I’ll put up $20 towards his Project 3000 charity if I’m wrong. And if the Cubs trade him “as is”, i.e. they don’t pay part of his salary, I’ll double my contribution to $40. Will you, or anyone else, take the “Yes” side of this bet?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 9:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, that first sentence is pretty incomprehensible.

Let me rephrase. GMs can’t buy any free agents of Lee’s caliber for only 2 years. They have to pay 4 years or more. Lee looked really bad to us Cub fans, but he has a long track record of success. He’s one of the better bets for a bounce back.

Let’s ask it this way – say Lee was on the free agent scene last year and you knew you’d only have to pay 3/39 for him. Would you rather have Lee at that price, Aaron Rowand for his contract, or Torii Hunter for his? And which would you expect to be the better hitter at the end of each contract? Guys like Hunter and Rowand were a lot riskier per their contracts than Lee is now.

It’s a good bet you offer, but I don’t take bets in general. Sorry. I’m also a lot more confident that he is tradeable than that he will be traded.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2008 11:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But you're ignoring an extremely important body of work...

the entire 2008 season!

Sure if I go back to last year and look at those three players, forgetting for a moment that Rowand and Hunter are CFers, and I could have any of them for 3/39, I’d probably go (in order) Hunter/Lee (it’s close) and then a big drop off to Rowand.

But after seeing the 2008 season, and no tangible evidence that the dropoff in production trend will reverse, I wouldn’t spend 13M/year on any of them.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 11:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I get where you're coming from and we may just never be able to convince the other on this.

So, this will be my last word on the subject for now. I figure that if Todd Helton could almost be traded two years back when he had more production questions and a worse contract than Lee does this year, Lee could be traded after a bad year, too.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2008 11:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well if you had said

“Lee could almost be traded”, similar to Helton, I’d almost be willing to agree with you. ;-)

btw – although not on your list of teams needing a 1B, I think Boston is the type of place where Lee could go and thrive next year. Maybe Theo and Jimbo will rope in someone else and do another three-teamer…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2008 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

like drawing straws?

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Oct 9, 2008 3:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Changes

Although I dont think big changes are needed this will be a huge must or bust offseason for Jim Hendry. One of our biggest problems is not knowing when to hold and when to fold on a player. We lack in the good prospects dept. Hopefully we will address that under new mgmnt as Al said.

Their are players that need to be traded like Harden,Marquis,Cedeno etc for prospects. Were getting long in the tooth and have absolutely no one to fill holes. I think Harden brings a big reward back. As much as I like him when he’s healthy, the truth of the matter is,he’s nothing more than a employee.

I think the market for furcal will prove to be too big and he’s really all thats out there thats any better than what we have. I’ll admit theriot has flaws but he cost us nothing. cabrera,furcal,renteria,lugo etc will cost us big without that much of an upgrade. Furcal is great when he’s healthy but he’s not healthy much.

Fukudome is ours,as is soriano,ramirez,soto, and derosa.

I think we need to resign demp and reed. We need to look for a centerfielder and a right fielder. I kinda see a dome and reed platoon in center. Is it perfect? NO but I dont see many options out there. Abreu is out there, could be an option but I dont know his defense is horrid.

can brian roberts play ss or does hendry have dero slotted in in rf and b-ro at 2nd if he’s signed?

If wood wants anything more than a 1-2 year deal—-take the emotion and ties out and let him walk. DO NOT saddle us with his injuries anymore. marmol is ready and we just drafted another pitcher who was a closer. We need a few fresh arms in the pen and a top starter.

I’m not against trading lee ,although he has a no trade clause, but he makes alot of plays look easy when in fact their not.

Alot of questions need to be answered this offseason and hendry better be active. Our core is getting really old and we have no replacements waiting. I think he’s gotta take some chances on some trades even though we all wont agree with them.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 10:28 AM CDT   0 recs

Why do you think Wood is an injury liability?

His blister issue was non-arm related, and he pitched pretty well…

"There is not a better offense in America. Missouri has had 48 possessions and scored on 33 of them. The nation's No. 1 scoring offense has punted just five times and has yet to go three-and-out." Tom Dienhart, Rivals.com

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 9, 2008 10:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

A two year contract with reasonable incentives on total appearances over two years to lock a third would be a fair contract for both sides.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2008 10:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sign Wood

I agree, two year deal with an option for a third. Let him walk the list of teams would be plenty to sign him

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Oct 9, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hell, I would even have a 4th year option that vests as well.

Something like a fair closer/set up $$$ for the first two guaranteed years and something like 110 appearances in years 1 & 2 to lock year 3 and a total of 165 over the three years to lock year 4. Have years 3 & 4 each escalate between 500k and 1M and he has a very fair deal.

But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As I see it

 our payroll is at or close to capacity. I love kerry wood but is he a huge upgrade over carlos marmol for 3-4 years at 5-10 million? we sign him thats saying were depending on you 100% given his history of injuries. you saddle yourself with that kinda contract you leave yourself no room to go out and get a replacement if he goes down. We have a lot of backloaded contracts,aging core players, and no replacemnts in the minors. some chances are gonna have to be done to upgrade our existing team, get us some prospects and stay at or about are current payroll.

we as cub fans and the cub brass get emtionally connected with players when in fact its time to either let em walk or trade for the highest return before their useless to us and everyone else.

I BELIEVE!!!! GO CUBBIES!!!!!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up