Possible Peavy Progress....
by bren on Nov 11, 2008 12:02 PM CST
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The Atlanta Braves and San Diego Padres continue to make progress in trade negotiations around pitcher Jake Peavy, but at the same time, San Diego is talking with the Chicago Cubsabout the All-Star -- with the Padres and Chicago engaging a third team as part of their proposals.
The Cubs and Padres have talked about a deal built around Josh Vitters, the Cubs' top pick from 2007. But unlike the Braves, Chicago is not steeped in pitching, and so the Padres and Cubs are in the process of drawing in a third team to their talks, and that third team would be the side that would flip the pitching necessary to San Diego, in order to make the deal work for the Padres.
So it looks like Hendry is more willing to part with Vitters than Samardzija, which is moot b/c of his NTC. If this costs Vitters, mark me down as a 'No' vote. Not only would that be giving up the teams top prospect, but it could effectively close the door on Samardzija as a starter, depending on what would happen with Dempster and Marquis. However, some might not think this is such a bad thing, but I think Shark has what it takes to be a starter.
So what do you think-would Vitters be too much? Can Peavy flourish outside of Petco?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Peavy can flourish anywhere
but if it costs Vitters then I would vote “no” not that Jim cares. If Shark wants to be a full-time starter he needs to get another pitch and not try to overpower everyone he faces. These big league hitters will smoke that stuff second time through the order.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
Hes got a fastball, splitter and change
and should develop a slider, granted the fastball is the only truly above average one now, but hes only had half a year of experience in the bigs, I think he can do it and I hope its with the Cubs
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I think he will grow into a decent ML pitcher
right now I would say his fastball doesn’t move quite enough and, frankly, I’ve never seen him throw a changeup. His splitter is effective but I don’t think he has enough other stuff yet to rely on that. I too hope he stays with the Cubs; I just hope they let him mature and don’t ruin him by throwing him out there to the wolves before he’s ready just because they’re worried he’ll jump to the NFL. Something didn’t seem quite right seeing him out there pitching in the bigs this year; it felt more like a movie script than real life. I’m a fan of Shark and was even when he was playing football at ND (who I don’t particularly care for) but I have a bad feeling about him. Hope I’m wrong.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 11, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Where is this NFL talk coming from?
I have never read anything indicating he said he would jump to the NL, he made it to the bigs pretty quickly afterall
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
*NFL not NL*
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
It's not coming from anywhere; just conventional wisdom.
He wants to play baseball but could easily have gone to the NFL instead of MLB. My point is that I think he made it to the bigs way too soon and I think the whole “NFL” unarticulated option has clouded the judgment of someone in the Cubs organization. I hope he makes it as an ML pitcher with the Cubs.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 11, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
You think he's bluffing?
I would agree that the Organization might be scared of something which might not even be remotely true, he had two viable options for a sporting career, and he chose baseball knowing he’d have to go to the minors…..so I think he has the heart for it.
I dont think you can overemphasize that all along, from HS to ND, he hadnt been able to focus solely on baseball like he can now.
Even if his ceiling is a number 4 starter, thats pretty good, not many of those guys can ramp it up like he can
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I don't think he is overtly doing anything one way or the other
I just think someone in the Organization is overthinking it, like we all do here.
What did impress me about him was he didn’t seem to be overwhelmed by pitching in Wrigley field so soon. He’s definitely got the mental make up for success. That in itself is a nice change of scenery from certain unpredictable power pitchers in the rotation. Pressure doesn’t bother him, which is one reason I think he ultimately will be a premier closer somewhere but not right now.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 11, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
I think the reason that they gave him
a MLB Contract and a NTC was because he agreed to not jump to the NFL.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Nov 11, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
That's what I'm talking about
he is being treated differently and I’m not saying it’s wrong just that there is an additional dimension in everything that is going on with him compared to a “normal” prospect.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 11, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
The MLB contract he signed caused the clock to start ticking.
The organization only has a limited amount of time to develop Jeff in the minors (3 options years). I believe they’ve already used 2 option years so that is where I think the urgency comes from.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Nov 12, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Shark as a starter...
should not figure into this equation what so ever. Even if it fell into his lap it shouldn’t matter. Getting established pitchers is more important than trying to push along a kid that may or may not make it as a starter. Shark has to improve his overall game approach. 98MPH as nearly a stand alone pitch doesn’t cut it for SP.
I’m OK with dealing Vitters since Rami is entrenched at 3rd. Now if there’s a fair chance he’s not going to finish his current contract with the Cubs, then Hendry would have to think that out some more.
This source is now making its way to the airwaves during the every-20-minute sportscentre radio update.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Fair enough...
But Starting Pitching wasnt a problem with this team, so to give away our best prospect (vitters), while potentially stunting the growth of another(samardzija) wouldnt be worth it in my opinion…..Peavy is great, but he’s also been in Pitching Valhalla for his career.
Vitters should hopefully be able to slide run in when Ramirez’s deal runs out, or if Ramirez ages quickly can move to first while Vitters slides into third.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Yea I agree,
we should NOT trade Vitters. He is our one blue chip prospect in the farm system. While I agree with the people who say we are in a win now mode, that doesn’t mean you should deplete your farm system the first chance you get. Don’t get me wrong, I want Peavy but don’t give up Vitters.
Your 100% right when you say Vitters should be able to take the reigns over at 3rd for ARAM once his contract is up. Remember how hard it was to find a quality 3rd basemen before Hendy’s brilliant trade with the Bucos.
Also, you never know what needs were going to have come the trade deadline and it would be nice to still have some quality in the FS. It seems like SP is the strength of the team so it just doesn’t seem right to give up our 1 blue chipper for the luxury of Peavy.
I honestly don't know.
Vitters is a highly touted, but very young player, whereas Peavy is a proven commodity. Vitters has the tools and the high opinion of the scouts and is viewed as having high upside.
However, this is sounding very similar to the Felix Pie/Eric Patterson discussions of 2-3 years ago and now the discussions are that Pie should have been moved when he had value and Hendry overvalues his players.
Not saying you are, dlee25, but it all sounds familiar.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
Well...for Starters
no pun intended, Shark needs to develop his other pitches for strikes before he can become a starter. I don’t think it was ever in the cards for him to be a starter at the MLB level next year…even though some folks are saying that. I think he was either going to the bullpen as a Howry/Marmol replacement or would be a starter at triple A to work on his secondary pitches and build arm strength.
My guess is that 2010 is when you see Shark as a fulltime starter if he is still on the Cubs. Even then, I would be skeptical that he could be a starter the full year since he would be getting his first taste of the starter workload for a MLB pitcher
It depends on when they project Vitters to come up, at what position, and whether you think you can find a suitable replacement for him by that time (either through the draft or Free Agency). If all of the scenarions project him coming up after Peavy’s contract is done, then there are several scenarios that the Cubs have to replace “vitters”.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Nov 11, 2008 12:27 PM CST reply actions
That was a fun entry
I really like that site.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
I dont believe that for a second
Though I think Marshall would be good in SD
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Maybe that means
we can somehow snag Matt Antonelli coming back our way as well…cannot believe that SD will give up on him this quickly though…
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
He was
SD’s future 2B after great 2007, but had a terrible 2008 in AAA…some nice potential there though…
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=30961
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
He can develop better as a starter
b/c he’ll have more opportunities to pitch, in terms of innings, he’s getting an awful lot of money for a 5th round pick, so give him a shot…and if that takes half a season at AAA for refining, then so be it.
You just never know with starters, past results dont guarantee future outcomes….id just hate to see Vitters become great somewhere else, while this team is perfectly capable of getting to the playoffs again w/ its current staff……we couldnt score once we got there, that was the problem
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Well...
He dropped that far in the draft because people where afraid he would go to the NFL and the reason that the Cubs gave him a MLB contract and a NTC was so that he would not do that. Other teams I guess were not willing to do that.
If he projects only as a fourth/fifth starter anyway, he may have more value to the team as a 8th inning guy or closer. That will especially be true if he can’t successfully develop 3 or more pitches for strikes. In the short term, I think he is in the bullpen unless an emergency arises that necessaitates they put him in the rotation.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Nov 11, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Agree to disagree I suppose
There seems to be a pretty even split on this one
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
You think he projects as a 4/5 starter?
I disagree. The guys throws a sinker 95 mp+ with a lot of late movement. It’s a really good pitch….
Also, I thought he made some progression with his off-speed pitches last year. If he can learn to control splitter and other off-speed pitches, his fastball will be devasting.
Four/five starter? I think he cieling is a good number two starter or possibly closer if he does stay in the bullpen. Obviously, he wouldnt be closer with Marmol and hopefully Wood.
I did not say I think he projects as a 4th or 5th starter...
I said that if the team projects him as that or he can’t develop his secondary pitches, he may have more value in the bullpen where he can get by on two pitches. I don’t really know what to think about him to be honest. I will reserve judgement on his starting capability till I see more of a sample size. At this point, I don’t see him as the second coming but I am open to my opinion changing. MLB is littered with prospects who could throw high heat but could never put it together.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Nov 11, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
The key is who the Cubs would have to flip to the third team.
Obviously, the Dads want either a young stud ML pitcher (like Charlie Morton) or an A-level prospect SP that is at most one year away. The Cubs don’t currently have such an animal, so they would have to capture said animal using someone of current value to a third team.
Who? The most obvious candidates are current Cubs who don’t have NTCs and have value to other teams: Soto, Marmol, DeRosa, Harden. Of those four, Soto and Marmol are irreplaceable to the Cubs, so they are not good candidates to be dealt. DeRo would have a lot of value to the Twins, Dodgers, Indians, Phillies, and Mets. Might the Cubs be able to come up with a pitcher from one of those teams? Harden will have value to teams looking for a SP with a cheap one-year commitment, but his value might be higher after the first wave of FA SPs signs. Also, teams with ML-ready young-stud SPs aren’t likely to want Harden; they would just use the young stud. That means that DeRo is the most likely candidate to be flipped.
If this trade ends up netting Peavy while costing the Cubs Pie, Vitters, DeRo, and Cedeño/Marshall will it still be worthwhile? What if the Cubs can’t sign Demp because of Peavy’s contract? What if they can’t afford Wood?
I don’t think the Cubs farm system is deep enough to make a 4-for-1 trade wise — especially if they have budget constraints against signing FAs.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Something tells me...
…Hendry wouldn’t be pushing for his deal if he had significant budget restraints that wouldn’t allow him to address other needs. At least, I hope he wouldn’t.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
btw
Charlie Morton a stud young pitcher? I don’t buy it. I think he’s a mid-end of the rotation type.
I don't consider that progress.
The Cubs pursuing a third team makes it look like they don’t have the pieces to get a deal done on their own. Look at it from San Diego’s perspective: From everything I have heard and read the Braves have already agreed to give the Padres Yunel Escobar and Gorkys Hernandez, and thats only half of the package. That alone puts them ahead of the Cubs in the derby. We have seen everything the Cubs are offering and the majority of those players are all lower risk-low ceiling players. Cedeno and Marshall are known commodities. They aren’t going to get that much better. Pie is valuable and I would like to keep him, but he isn’t exactly a blue chip prospect. Meanwhile, Escobar has already established himself as a star in the making at SS, making him that much more valuable. I don’t see how the Cubs get Peavy unless the Braves get impatient and/or Peavy ends up refusing to go to Atlanta. if they include Fontenot things could change.
Let's just say this about Escobar.
He’s 25, 26, cost-controlled, and apparently “a star in the making.” Atlanta doesn’t just trade that away unless there is some significant negative.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
What do you mean?
They are considering trading him because a) They are getting a legitimate ace in return and b) They have a highly touted prospect waiting in the wings, that being Brent Lillibredge. I haven’t heard much about him over the last few months, but he came into 2008 as a big-time prospect and BP thought he might take Escobar’s job as soon as mid-season 2008. I don’t think trading someone away means something is wrong with him. You have to give up something good to get something good. Atlanta is simply dealing from what they perceive to be a position of strength to get pitching, which they sorely need.
Lillibridge isn't "highly touted" anymore.
He hit .220/.294/.344 in AAA last year. I know Kevin Goldstein was high on him going into 2008, but at the end of the year, he wrote in his “Two-Steps Back” column:
The train for shortstop Brent Lillibridge 3 came to a screeching halt thanks to a .220/.294/.344 line at Triple-A Richmond, as he got away from his on-base and contact skills and turned into a pull-happy hacker, a mistake for a guy who never had much power in the first place.
Lillibridge is not the answer at SS. And given how shallow SS is as a position right now, I find it highly suspect that the Braves are keeping Heyward and Hanson off the table, but not Escobar – if Escobar is what he seems.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Perhaps they find it easier to replace Escobar than blue chip prospects.
Could it be that they are looking at bringing back Edgar Rentaria? I believe I heard that somewhere. My point is that it’s possible that they believe they have a viable replacement for Escobar and therefore can trade him away for Peavy.
Atlanta cut bait on Renteria for two reasons
1) Renteria’s defense stunk.
2) Escobar was supposed to be the future.
Atlanta has a history of trading away talented-looking middle infielders. The only one they let get away that has any talent today, that I can think of, plays 2B for the Cubs.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Peavy is a proven commodity...
…but we don’ know wheher Jeff S. will ever be a good staring pitcher, or whether Vitters will ever be a legit major league player.
The Cubs have about a 2 year window, so Hendry needs to follow through on what he has built – a team that needs to win now.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm kind of on the fence here.
I think Shark and Vitters could be part of a winning Cub team for a long time.
You’re right that “win now” is the mantra, as it was last year. The question to me is: is Peavy going to pitch as well with Wrigley as his home park? I worry about that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
valid concern
But I worry that Dempster can be as good in 2009 (and for three or four more years) as he was in 2008. Peavy’s younger, about the same price AND more of a proven commodity.
You go for it...
…and you have to because you really don’t have any choice than to put he peddle down all the way.
Get all you can to help you win now, because that is your only chance of winning with this core in the near term. I am no concerned with Peavy’s road stats, and he instantly becomes your number 1 guy.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Why aren't you concerned with his road stats?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I looked this up real quick...
I just took a look at some of the guys I consider stud pitchers- Haren, Santana (Johan and Ervin) Webb, Lincecum…All of them had nearly identical home and road ERA’s…Johan was around 2.00 at home and 3.00 on the road…This is VERY preliminary stuff- I only spent about 5 minutes, but they were all about equal…
This kind of surprised me, to say the least.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Nov 11, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting
this is why I asked, because I honestly wasn’t sure. I am surprised that they are fairly similar.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
The point isn't whether guys are better at home or on the road.
The point is that Petco is an extreme pitcher’s park and Wrigley isn’t.
Now, take a guy who has made half his starts in the former and give him half his starts in the latter — I worry about whether he’ll still be as dominant.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I guess the reason I brought it up...
….was I agree with you that Peavy may be overrated, I also think that maybe you overestimate the splits.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
It's impossible to know unless this deal is made.
I’d be less leery if Peavy wasn’t coming from such an extreme pitcher’s park.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Exactly
And I totally get where you are coming from. In fact I’m not entirely sold on the Cubs getting Peavy, so I share your same concerns. To play devils advocate, if the stadium is such an advantage to Peavy, then I would expect the other starters to have stats that match the splits you name. I don’t know where you guys come up with those, so I honestly don’t know what the answer is.
I guess what makes me lean towards getting Peavy is the Cubs are definitely built to win NOW. The window of opportunity to win the WS is closing….quickly. I think by going out and getting Peavy, this gives us the best shot of getting to the promise land.
But like you said, no one will know unless the trade happens.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I don't mean the stats should match Peavy's
but in terms of how those other pitchers fair on the road vs at petco.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
And I'm not convinced...
… that the difference between 2008’s 97-win team and a postseason victory is Jake Peavy. Remember? So many of us were convinced that Rich Harden was the answer. He wasn’t.
The Cubs didn’t fail in 2008 because of a missing starting pitcher.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
You sure about that?
Their starters were awful in the postseason and even if the Cubs keeo Dempster next year I don’t see any starter with over 150 innings posting and ERA under 3.4. Harden will have a great ERA but will probably have around 25 starts or so. The Cubs can use a front of the rotation guy, with or without Dempster.
The starters were bad, yes.
But the Cubs, who led the league in runs scored, scored six runs in three games — and three of those runs (the ones in game two) were basically gifts after the game was a 10-0 blowout.
I have argued that the issue isn’t talent, it’s somewhere in their heads.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
My main point is that
nest year expect the Cubs pitching to regress a bit. Dempster, if even a Cub, is highly unlikely to repeat his 2008 performance. I think Z has showed us what he is. The last two years have made it fairly clear that unless something drastically changes he is more of number two type pitcher with an ERA from the ranging from mid-3 to low-4. Lilly is probably going to be exactly what he has been, a nice middle of the rotation pitcher who is simply solid. Not great, not very good, but solid. Harden is obviously the best pitcher on this team, but it’s hard to put too much stock in him. My point is that even if we do resign Dempster, I still think we go into next year without a bona fide ace. We would have a very good and deep rotation, but we don’t have that pitcher that I would trust to set the tempo in a five or seven game series. I agree with you about the need for improvement on offense, but pitching is what it’s all about in the playoffs.
Who's to say that Z might not finally figure it out and be dominant?
You don’t know that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
You're right
But I’d take even money
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 11, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
Sure -
But you want to have as many of those potential aces on roster as possible. Jason Marquis is not going to find it and be a shut-down post-season pitcher.
So you run out Z, Peavy, Harden, Lilly, and, say, Freddy Garcia, or Ricky Nolasco, and you’ve got five guys who could all be top pitchers. No, they probably all won’t turn out that way – but you’ve got better odds of having 2 or 3 of them than if our rotation is Z, Demp, Harden, Lilly, Marquis.
If we get Peavy, our post-season odds go up. And trust me, you want Peavy, because if we don’t get Peavy, all those trade chips are shifting towards Andy MacPhail’s place at the trade table.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
can we stop talking about nolasco please
its not gonna happen
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
You're willing to guarantee that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
yes i guarantee he goes nowhere
lets get the cy young boy wonder while we are at it too
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
You can't assume that a nutjob will suddenly fix himself.
Hell, why not resign Prior and hope he finally is healthy? Zambrano isn’t a growing player anymore. He is what he is at this point. It would take a minor miracle for him to suddenly become the ace he was back in 03 and 04. A diet would help too.
Did that "nutjob"
really have that much more composure in 2003? He isn’t a “growing” player in terms of skills, and that’s fine. We know he’s got the stuff. The one way a pitcher can always improve himself, regardless of age, is by mentally growing. Z needs to harness his emotions again. He’s proved he can do it. I see no reason to suddenly become all doom and gloom and say it would take a “minor miracle” for him to regain form.
"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"
First of all, he doesn't have the same stuff.
His numbers have been in decline the past few years. Up until 2006, Zambrano had dominating stuff, but since then he seems to have lost some velocity on his fastball and some movement on his other pitches. I haven’t studied his pitchFX but judging from his declining strikeout totals(only 130 in ‘08) he isn’t throwing the same nasty stuff he did back when he was posting ERA’s in the high two’s and low three’s. The only bright spot for Carlos is that he posted his lowest walk rate of his career this year, but even that didn’t help offset his low strikeout totals.
I think Carlos decided...
… that he wasn’t just going to be a strikeout pitcher. In 2003, when he had success in his first year as a starter, he would often get many ground ball outs. Tack another 26 innings on to his 2008 total to match 2003 and the K total isn’t that much different.
And tell Z he doesn’t have velocity after throwing consistently 97+ in his no-hitter.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Thats just wrong.
For starters, I wasn’t looking at just his strikeout total, which is just a counting stat and no all that telling. Here are his last three k/9 rates from 2006 up until now. 8.83/7.36/6.20. He has lost over s strikeout per nine innings each of the last two years. You can chose to believe that Carlos is “allowing” hitters to make more contact. The more likely interpretation is that he has lost his stuff, which bears out in his numbers. Also, his average fastball velocity is 91.3 MPH, down from 92.8 just a few years ago. His stuff is down and one game which might have been the reason for his awful finish to the season should to little to easy anyone’s mind. No hitters are nice, but it was the exception for Z, not the rule.
I agree...
…Zambrano has indeed lost a little bit of the late movement/liveliness on his fastball in the last couple of years.
All in all, his stuff is more than good enouph to win you 18+ games a year, but he has too many bad games because he loses his head. At this stage of his career, I don’t anticipate that improving.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
At this stage?
He’s 27, presumably with his best years still to come.
I agree that he has to get his head screwed on straight first.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
He started awfully early and is in the worst shape of his career.
Most players peak around 27 or twenty eight, but Carlos logged a ton of innings early on in his career and he may decline a bit sooner than most. He migh not declin but I dispute the fact that he is entering his prime. His performance has been sloping downwards for two or three years now.
Worst shape?
In fact, he seemed in much BETTER shape in 2008 than in the two years previous.
Now, you could say you’re worried about his shoulder, and that could be a legitimate concern. But I think otherwise he is in good shape and still COULD have his 3-4 best years ahead of him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
At least early on it was reported
that his drop in velocity this year was due to him finally figuring out that he did not have to throw 95 to get guys out. He was committed to pitching to contact and throwing strikes. That approach seemed to work until he got hurt in Tampa. He seemed to abandoned that philosophy and went back to the country hardball approach to prove all the shoulder doubters wrong.
His terrible months this year and in years past had nothing to do with velocity and everything to do with his lack of location. I guess you could say that a drop in velocity does make it such that pitches down the middle are easier to hit. However, if he stays ahead of hitters and can thrown that fastball on the black, he can throw in 91 and be just fine.
I am just not overly concerned with his velocity if he can throw quality strikes. If he can’t throw quality strikes and he has to blow people away down the middle, I will grab my helmet and run for the nearest foxhole.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Nov 12, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
I was trying to compose a post to that effect but you did a great job of explaining it. I think he is still getting better.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 12, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with this 100%
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Re:
I think he started losing stuff and velo, but his 2 seamer was still quality, and thus, he changed his pitching style.
Exactly...
we need another hitter, but unfortunately there are not that many options that also fill our “holes”.
Teixeira, although ideal, would be costly and requires us to move Lee.
Abreu is only getting older.
Dunn would probably make us consider moving Soriano to RF.
ManRam would certainly suffice but can’t play CF or RF for us.
Hermida may or may not be available and then may or may not even pan out.
Bradley is a wild card and injury-prone.
Who did I miss?
Although I do not like the defensive downgrade, I still think Dunn fits the offensive needs we have best. Hermida would too, although I thought I heard rumors of his laid back personality or something like that holding him back. I would give just about anything to see us deal Lee and sign Big Tex.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
If Teixiera were even a possibility....
I agree- If the Cubs could possibly move Lee and sign Teixiera, it would be a major, major boost to the team’s offense, and probably the best thing they could do this offseason.
Of course, he probably doesn’t want to sign here, and he’s going to cost around $8M more than Lee annually.
But if we’re seriously considering adding Peavy and offering Dempster 4/50, then cost isnt’ really much of an object, is it?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I have seen him pitch enouph...
…to know he is first rate and he will make an adjustment to Wrigley.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Same here
This is tough to decide, Peavy is very enticing and imagining him in Chicago even more so….but starting pitchers wilt all the time and seldom live up to long term deals or huge trades.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I'm getting ready to post about this 2-year window.
We do have an opportunity this off-season to open that window farther, and Geovany Soto’s ROTY win is a big reminder of that.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
It's pretty hard
to judge the merits of getting Peavy without knowing what the Cubs would give up. I’m fine with giving up Vitters as long as the rest of the package isn’t out of hand. The Cubs are trying to win now, and Vitters won’t really help them do that (at least, not directly).
I’m not going to try to define what “out of hand” would be in this case. But Shark, IMO, is a Cub next year (because of the NTC and the need to replace Howry and maybe Wood). I’d guess we’re still talking Cedeno, Pie, Marshall, Ceda, Hill, Fontenot, DeRosa and Marquis as guys who could be parts of the trade, in addition to Vitters.
My vote is "yes"
go get peavy. we need him. you can never have too much pitching and he would instantly be better than any pitcher we have.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
NO
to Vitters. If we resign Dempster than we really don’t need Peavy to get to the playoffs. That is what matters because we all know even the teams with the best record can’t make it out of the 1st round. IT’s a crap shoot.
by CubFaninStLouis on Nov 11, 2008 1:00 PM CST reply actions
omg
in another fanpost a poster just said peavy isnt worth vitters?? I about puked in my mouth. since when is a just turned 27yr old cy young winner not worth a prospect? we wander why we never win.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
Could be the fact that management has historically sucked at having a top of the line farm system?
THIS SIGNATURE HAS BEEN CONFISCATED BY THE GRAMMAR POLICE
Vitters is a long ways off to a major league future, if he even has one
19 years old and hasn’t even played low A ball yet. Therefore comical that people would balk at including him in a deal for a Jake Peavy, particularly when the Cubs are built to win now. Unfortunately for us San Diego is never going to bite on a deal built around a 19 year old Vitters.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
Maybe they shouldve taken Matt LaPorta or Matt Wieters
I agree 19 makes him 3 years away at least, but he had rave reviews heading into that draft, and it seems too soon to cut bait
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Obviously we should have taken Wieters...
.. But hindsight is 20/20. Wieters is rated as one of the top, if not the top prospect by many baseball officials.
Wieters would have to change positions if he were in the Cub organization...
… probably become an outfielder.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Having an All Star catcher and a top one in the minors wouldve...
Given the team incredible trade leverage….but the MLB draft is more of a crapshoot than anyother, but its interesting that college players seem to be performing better and better in the bigs and getting there quicker (braun, lincecum, price….)
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
This is one of my big pet peeves about the Cubs
It seems that we’re constantly using high draft picks on (or, in Fukudome’s case, just signing) hitters with “doubles power”, and constantly hearing the caveat that “the team expects him to develop a power stroke in the coming years…” and it never happens.
When was the last time we drafted a collegiate hitter in the first round? Colvin, obviously, but he wasn’t really a power hitter. Brooks Kieschnick, but he was drafted as a pitcher… I think that the answer is Rafael Palmiero in 1985! The tops of our drafts have been full of prep hitters who washed out, and “rangy” college guys who never get past “doubles power”.
As much as I like Vitters, LaPorta and/or Wieters just seemed like no-brainers. Same for Teixiera, although I can understand the desire to go with Prior. I really, really wanted Teix at the time, and then I looked kind of silly for wanting to pass on Prior. Can’t fault the Cubs for making that selection.
We also can’t be too upset about the Colvin pick – that 2006 first round was pretty much picked clean by the time our pick came up at #14. Lincecum, Kershaw, Morrow, & Longoria were all gone, and you’d be hard pressed to point to another 2006 1st rounder who you’d trade straight up for Colvin today.
I guess that it’s partially a function of draft position, as there haven’t been a ton of top NCAA power hitters on the board when we’ve drafted. But we seem to be totally averse to them when we have had the opportunities.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
FWIW
Kieschnick was drafted as an OF out of the University of Texas, 4 spots ahead of Derrek Lee. (1993 1st Round)
It was only after he didn’t hack in the majors as a hitter that Kieschnick reinvented himself as a pitcher.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
FWIW i saw all three play in college
and weiters was the best by far.. Actualyl closed games too… I also think that we should have drafted him and then moved Soto to First when Weiters was ready and trade Lee.. Weiters is that good… Best bat by a mile in that draft.
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
Joba, Ian Kennedy and Emmanuel Burriss
were all taken after Colvin and Id gladly take anyone of them over him
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
cy young winner is.................
tim lincecum!!!!!!!!
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
I seriously doubt Tim Lincecum is the Cy Young winner.
What, just because you read it on-line you believe it? So what if multiple sources are reporting the same thing. Lincecum’s a 24 year old kid. Cy Young can do better.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
huh??
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
Peavy to the Cubs isn't going to happen
I’d trade Josh Vitters, Jose Ceda and Sean Marshall for Jake Peavy. Vitters is a 19 year old kid who has yet to play low A ball. San Diego can certainly do better than a package from the Cubs.
Jeff Samardzija is little more than a promising bullpen arm at this stage. Unless he develops a broader pitching repetoire his future is in the pin. I doubt seriously San Diego would be interested in the Shark as centerpiece to a deal.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
What about Florida?
I mean, Jim has a history with both the Padres and the Marlins.
The Cubs get Hermida from Florida and Peavy from San Diego
The Marlins get Pie and Vitters and a buttload of money from the Cubs.
The Padres get Nolasco from Florida, and Marshall, Cedeno, and a buttload of money from the Cubs.
The Cubs get their left handed bat and a top-of-the-rotation starter, the Marlins get a good prospect and hopefully a “change of scenery” guy and the Padres get two MLB-ready starters. Forgive me if this is insane, I’ve been hiding under a rock for the last couple months…
by Great Odin's Raven on Nov 12, 2008 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
Why would the Cubs give a "buttload" of money to those teams...
… when they also have to pay Peavy’s contract.
Sorry, this one’s nuts.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Hendry is in no postion...
…to be giving other teams a “boatload of money”.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
What about a "buttload"?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
is that with sand
or without?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 12, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Re:
I don’t know if I see the Marlins giving up a quality pitcher like Nolasco, along with a cost-controlled OF like Hermida, for Vitters and Pie. What value is there for them to do that, when they have their own 3rd base prospect in Matt Dominguez, along with Logan Morrison/Gaby Sanchez at first, and lots of OF options? I think they’d have interest, but I don’t think that’s enough, even with a buttload of money.
I’m also not sure Nolasco/Marshall/Cedeno is enough talent for the Padres to deal Peavy, even with a buttload of money.
The third team is reportedly someone with pitching - and probably someone who wants a middle IF
- so maybe the Twins.
But if the Padres want a C, we could work with Texas or Cleveland.
And, then, here’s a crazy blockbuster suggestion, for which I have no grounds but imagination:
The Phillies, motivated to keep Peavy from Atlanta, get in on a three team trade where we give them Alfonso Soriano.
They front us the prospects, some combo of Carrasco, Savery, Outman, Jason Donald, and Lou Marson (not all of them) and we also take on Geoff Jenkins.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
So Peavy goes to ATL, Soriano to PHI?
I dont know that we’d make the playoffs w/o Soriano, say what you will about his post season performance, he’s the only super slugger we have outside of Ramirez
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
No Peavy comes to the Cubs; Philly makes this deal to KEEP Peavy from going to Atlanta.
If you trade Soriano, you open a space for Dunn, or more likely, Ibanez.
But the imagined mega-deal I’m throwing out there is something like this:
Cubs give Soriano to Philly for Savery, Carrasco, Donald and Geoff Jenkins
Cubs give SD Savery, Carrasco, Donald, and something of their own for Peavy
Cubs end up with Peavy and Jenkins.
Jenkins becomes Dome’s RF competition. LF is filled by Ibanez/Dunn and CF is opened for a lead-off CF, say David DeJesus.
Your lineup could look something like this:
DeJesus
DeRosa
DLee
Dunn
Ramirez
Soto
Dome
Theriot
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Would you make Vitters the Cubs' "something of their own" contribution?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
I don't think you need Vitters
if you get the Phillies’ prospects in there.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Looks good to me
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Yeah, I must say...
…that’s a pretty sound lineup. One question: Is DeJesus a free agent? I’ve been poring over Jeff Passan’s list on Yahoo! sports and don’t see his name.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
No, we'd have to trade for him.
He was rumored to be available last year and I don’t know if he is this year. The Royals do still have an overflow of players in their OF.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Rumors suggest
That the Royals are trying to move DeJesus to LF. They want to keep him, but with his reduced range as he’s aged, that they would rather plug him in LF.
Would the Twins be willing to give up an A-level SP prospect
to fill their glaring hole at 3B with DeRo?
Who plays 2B for the Cubs?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I think the Twins might.
Maybe we have to include something more, but DeRosa is a great option for teams that have questions at 2B and 3B, as several of the AL Central teams do.
If we trade DeRosa, Myan Fonriot plays 2B.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Or perhaps Cedeno and Fonriot would platoon?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
Whoah - I'm confused now.
Fonriot is already a platoon of Fontenot and Theriot. Cedeno, btw, hasn’t hit LHP at the ML level yet – he has a reverse split, so platooning him is not the best idea.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
That's the beauty of it. It all makes sense in a circular backward kind of way. You just
go with the hot hand of the three. One of them is usually hot and you just play that guy.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 12, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, sorry. My bad.
I misinterpted the meaning of “Fonriot.”
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
I prefer your original post. The combination of Theriot, Fontenot and
Cedeno sharing 2B is interesting. The fact that their names end in “o” makes it that much more mysterious.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 12, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Fonthercedeno?
Cedefontheriot?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
Thercedenot?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 12, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Re:
I doubt anyone gives up an A level SP prospect in this market, particularly, much as I like him, for Derosa.
Oops
Outman left in the Blanton trade.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
In case anyone was curious
I swapped an email with Barry Rozner. As emails are somewhat protected and I didn’t ask for his permission, I won’t post it, but his response was basically that Vitters is a part of the offer, Braves are in the lead, but Cubs have a shot if they move fast (well, actually, that was his entire response basically).
I asked Rozner if there was an indication on who the third team was, and the lack of a response may either just be
a) He doesn’t know
or
b) The Cubs have to move fast to find someone. It’s well known the Braves want some finality by Thursday so they can hit FA running.
I don't know . . . I take Rozner with a pound of salt
Bruce Miles is going to be on Sports Central in a bit . . . I put more stock in what he says
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 11, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
whew yeah i'll listen for Bruce, but I don't know how much more I can take of
Mr. David Kaplan
by philadelphiacub on Nov 11, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
It's Jim Memolo tonight
He’s a different kind of bad. He comes across as overly dramatic and pompous, whereas Kaplam is blustery and pompous . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 11, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
Hey I am in Chicago and caught only the last 10 seconds of Bruce's appearance
What did he say about the San Diego situation?
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
Not a whole lot, actually
Sounds like he’ll get moved, but didn’t seem to have a frontrunner. Of course, I was distracted by Memolo’s “sorry to tell you, hate to tell you, Cubs fans, they might not trade him at all”
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 11, 2008 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
He will be traded...
…it just may not be to the Cubs.
I imagine Towers told Hendry that the Braves deal was looking better, and that is when he gave Hendry an opportunity to get a third club involved.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Looking at Cub message boards and blogs
Seems like lots of the “inside source” stuff is starting up again. Each time I read one of those things, I think a deal is less and less likely.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #14 7-2 (3-2). Next up K-State. Chase Coffman is a god.
Agreed.
There was a ton of that stuff last year regarding Brian Roberts. Last I looked, he played all of 2008 in Baltimore.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Therefore,
because insiders were wrong about Roberts, they will always be wrong?
No, but...
… it does raise some red flags.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
If we are getting Peavy
then Lou either doesn’t know about it or is lying to us
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/11/dday_for_big_un.html
"I play for them," Soriano said quietly at his locker Saturday after a mob around him cleared. "I want to play great for them because I know it means so much to them."
I was about to post that too.....I think he
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
weird....
not sure what happened there…..I think Lou is right, or the author in speculating, that Lou feels LH hitters and more speed are what this team needs
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
DGU, do you have latest on whether Atlanta is once again really, really, really, really getting impatient with San Diego?!?!?
Inquiring minds want to know. I kid of course. Trying to have a little humore (very little) at your expense.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
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Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
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Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
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- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
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