Friday Discussion Topic: Jermaine Dye
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:04 AM CST
in The Next 100 Years
260 comments
Both Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella have made no secret that they're going to move Kosuke Fukudome to CF, platooning him with Reed Johnson, and look for a lefthanded bat to play RF.
But what if they think outside the box just a little? Yesterday, the Tribune reported that Kenny Williams is scouting the Arizona Fall League for prospects he might want in dealing Jermaine Dye away.
Dye hits righthanded, sure. But he has been a solid hitter for the White Sox for the last four years; has played in ten postseason series, including two World Series (and was named WS MVP in 2005); most importantly, his postseason numbers (.270/.320/.417 in 163 at-bats) aren't that much different from his career regular season line (.276/.338/.491), important in an era when Cub bats have disappeared once the calendar turns to October.
Dye has one year left on his contract at $11.5 million; there's a $12 million mutual option for 2010 with a $1 million buyout. According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, he has a limited no-trade clause -- can block trades to six teams, though it doesn't mention the teams. Dye has averaged 34 HR and 96 RBI in his four years with the White Sox. He turns 35 in January; he's a good outfielder, and also has hit .296/.322/.620 in 108 career AB at Wrigley Field.
I think it's worth investigating -- if Kenny Williams is watching AFL games, perhaps he could be interested in Rocky Roquet, Esmailin Caridad or Steve Clevenger. I imagine he might also be interested in a major league infielder, since Orlando Cabrera is gone and they intend to move Alexei Ramirez back to his natural SS position. Would they want Ronny Cedeno?
What sort of deal could you put together to bring Jermaine Dye to the North Side?
I, personally, think acquiring him would help the 2009 Cubs. He'd have to change that number, though.
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No thanks...
…the club needs a legit presense from the left side of the plate to keep right handed pitchers honest.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 9:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Could that be Fukudome?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It could...
…but they would prefer (and I agree) to have a LH bat in the 3, 4 or 5 hole. Even if Fukudome finds himself, he is either a 2, 7 or 8 hole guy.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem I have with that is...
… that the possibilities among LH bats are either too old or too expensive or both.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They are going to have to take a chance on a younger, under the radar type guy...
Who that could be, I’m not quite sure.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The expensive part...
…is probably the reason they couldn’t commit to the money Wood wanted.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably so.
Which means they’re going to have to go for that “younger, under the radar type guy” mentioned by Jimmyeatworld above.
Ryan Church, anyone?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Church might be on the radarscope
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Church would make some sense
LH bat, solid defensively in RF, some power, reasonable walk rate, could fill the #5 spot without being a complete disaster. Of course, he’s a trade guy right? That obviously makes it trickier, especially given that the Mets aren’t all that deep in the OF anymore.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What would it take to get Church?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets want relievers, I believe.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't they also need SPs?
I wonder if they would be interested in Marquis or Marshall. Perhaps they would take Marquis if we sweetened the pot with Fontenot or Cedeño?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good call.
Wuertz could be an option, too, if the opinion held of him here doesn’t reflect the opinions held elsewhere.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The question then moves
to planning for Church’s inevitable injury replacement. Because he will get hurt.
The easiest thing would be to move Fukudome to RF during that time and play Johnson full-time.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Church.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Orel Puppington?
Bad joke, sorry. But I’m obsessed with this cartoon.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Nov 14, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Who is too old and who is too expensive? Ibanez? His numbers clearly show he can still hit. Abreu…same thing. And remember, you guys want to win NOW, so expense should not be an issue if the guys are of quality…and I would argue both of them are. Set aside the next argument that they may not be top quality OF defenders because I think the asset they are looking for is a LH run producer and Ibanez and Abreu certainly both qualify in that regard.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Nov 14, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're completely disregarding defense, might as well go for Dunn
he’s younger and better offensively than those two
by philadelphiacub on Nov 14, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
There is a difference between my posted phrase of “top quality” defenders and not a defender at all. Dunn falls into that latter category. Ibanez and Abreu are both servicable in the OF, Dunn…not so much.
And again, if you want to win NOW, it doesn’t matter how young or old Dunn is. If that is legitimately the goal, to win NOW, 2010 doesn’t matter, 2011 doesn’t matter…etc. Otherwise, you guys are conflicting your goals here. You’re not going to have it all…youth, potential, offense, defense, affordability, LH, RH, middle of the order, top of the order,….
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Nov 14, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, my reason for suggesting Dunn
instead of Abreu/Ibanez is that those two bad at defense. Dunn is also bad at defense. However, Dunn is substantially better at offense, which at least gives him a chance to cover his defensive mistakes, whereas Abreu/Ibanez don’t have that chance. Regarding mentioning age, it has nothing to do with 2011 or “the future”. It has to do with the fact that at age 29, Dunn is not going to regress, whereas at 35 and 37, respectively, Abreu and Ibanez are much more likely to start doing so
by philadelphiacub on Nov 15, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Lou wants someone with more power.
Fukudome could end up a useful player – I think he will – but he’s not what Lou wanted. I was worried last year when Lou seemed to expect Dome could bat 4th and hit for power. Dome was never going to do that. I think the pressure to be something he couldn’t be may have had an impact on Dome’s second half disaster.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good morning Al,
Dye is an intriguing possibility. However, I think the fact that he is RH alone will disqualify him from consideration. He is a good OFer, but he has declined defensively over the last 3 years or so. His legs are simply giving out. At times he looks as if he is summoning everything in him to make a play that he easily made early in his career. Now, if Hendry could have swung getting Dye instead of Jacque Jones, we could have got some good, bordering on great, years from Dye- but I think this is an idea that is now past it’s prime.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 9:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If you think Dye is too old...
… then why would you want Bobby Abreu, who is the same age, or Raul Ibanez, who is older? (Just to mention two rumored names)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want either Abreu- too expensive; or Ibanez- defensive butcher...
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why Dye makes some sense even though he's a RH hitter.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he's a terrible addition...
he’d obviously be an upgrade. I just don’t see any reason to think that the Cubs would veer off course of their desire to get a LH power bat in RF.
Remember – power in general isn’t a huge problem. We have guys with power in Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Soto, and DeRosa. It’s just that they’re all RH hitters. Piniella (and thus Hendry) think that the reason the team dumped in the postseason is because we didn’t have the big LH bat. So adding Dye would be an upgrade over what we have now, but he wouldn’t address what Piniella/Hendry see as the fatal flaw in the lineup.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't happen to agree...
… that the reason they failed in the postseason is the lack of a LH power bat.
I’m not sure what the reason is — it’s mind boggling that a 97-win team failed as miserably as this year’s Cubs did — but I doubt that one LH bat is the reason, either.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to predict...
…what the impact of a legit LH bat would have had on pitchers that faced them in the post season.
I do know, that if you let a guy (especially control pitchers like a Lowe) pound the same side of the plate all day, it makes their life easier. If you make them pitch to both sides of the plate, they are more prone to make a location mistake and get hurt.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps so.
Still, I don’t think the available LH hitting options are worth it; they are either too old, too expensive, or both.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the FA options...
I’d prefer to seek out the trade route, especially if we don’t get Peavy (which I suspect we won’t). Now, I don’t know who will be available, but that would be a route I expect Hendry/Piniella to explore, unless they go after Ibanez.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking just OFs or including Furcal and Hudson?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was referring strictly to OF here.
Hudson & Furcal both have upsides and downsides. However, if you did acquire one of those, I think then Dye might become an option.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's important to remember that Jim Edmonds was no slouch in the playoffs.
So, if we think we needed another LH bat, that actually means we need TWO more.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Quite honestly, I think that Edmonds would be better than Ibañez. I would then hope that improvement from Dome would be my second bat.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds...
…was the best power bat (along with Soriano) during the 2nd half. The problem is (and its only my opinion), is I think you run the risk of him being on the shelf or less productive with his age and injury history. He may be an option if you can’t get a better option, but he does scare me a tad.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right - but my point is that
we had Edmonds in the playoffs and he was looking good at the plate, with several long shots to the track that don’t show up in the stats. So if the Cubs just add Ibanez/Dunn/Bradley/Abreu, we’re not really in any different situation that we were last off-season. To really have more of a LH presence, you need TWO LH bat additions.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs hope that one of those LH bats...
is Fukudome. While he stood on the left side of the plate, he didn’t provide any LH hitting.
If Fukudome can make the necessary adjustments, he’s the LH bat at or near the top of the order (perhaps the #2 hitter). He’s an OBP machine. then, if you find a #4 or #5 hitter who is left-handed, you have the lineup set.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Jim Hendry
hopes that Rafael Furcal or Brian Roberts is one of those LH bats and that Dome makes one more after that.
If Dome works out, our lineup will be nice next year, but the Cubs appear to be operating under the assumption that he will not work out.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope it's not Furcal...
as I think he’s going to be really expensive and won’t really address the issues we have at leadoff. Roberts would address those, but he’ll also cost an arm and a leg in terms of trade pieces.
We’ll see.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Furcal doesn't really help at lead-off
but he gives us a larger improvement over our current options than any other free agent position player. SS defense and left-handed relief are the two areas no one talks about, but that the Cubs most need to improve.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I agree...
I’d say that Dunn gives us a bigger upgrade in RF over Fontenot at 2B and DeRosa in RF. I especially believe this if Furcal’s back problems become a nagging thing. That would greatly minimize his only two assets (speed and defense).
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of this depends on
how we view Fontenot (who I like) and Theriot (who I think just had his career year).
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really care for Fontenot or Theriot...
I think they both had career years, so I think they’re both due for a decline.
It also depends on what you think Furcal brings you moving forward. You seem less concerned about the back problems than I am.
And I think the difference between Furcal and Theriot will be smaller than the difference between Dunn and Fontenot.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The big factor in this is the defense.
Fontenot plays 2B well enough. Theriot does not play SS well enough. I don’t like Furcal’s back issues. I’d rather get Brandon Wood and Maicer Izturis, but Furcal we know is available.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My problem with Furcal is...
if his back IS a problem, then the upgrade in defense that Furcal would provide is likely eliminated.
I agree that Theriot’s defense is a problem. I just am not confident that Furcal’s defense moving forward is going to be significantly better, considering the back issues. And given that, I think someone like Dunn would provide a bigger return.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good points.
My fear, though, is that the Cubs will dump Cedeno this off-season, not have another SS option, and that Theriot will hit .280 with less walks because pitchers refuse to walk a guy with no power who only hits .280. Then we will have a giant black hole stuck at SS who hurts us offensively and defensively.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your fear...
I’m just not excited about the idea of investing $8-10 million per year into a guy who may not offer much more than that.
At least Theriot is still cheap. That may be the best thing we can say about him next year, but that’s still better than expensive and not good, which is my fear with Furcal.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying my opinion as to why they failed...
I’m saying what Piniella and Hendry believe is why they failed. Which is why I’m saying it’s not going to happen.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
It was the lack of a leadoff hitter that failed us, we never got anything going.
by jbertram on Nov 14, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO...
…I would rather have a good LH bat at leadoff that could steal bases vs the power lefty bat in the middle of the order (if you can only get one). It would still give the pitcher a different look, but also gives you a consistant threat at the top that the club has been missing.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That may be even more difficult to find...
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not impossible...
…but it certainly wouldn’t be easy.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't Baltimore have a switch hitting lead off hitter?
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Nov 14, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And what about getting him would be easy?
As we saw last winter/spring, he might be the most difficult guy to get of all.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously though...
I have been wondering what the relative importance of the two stated offseason offensive goals are.
1) Add a LH power bat
2) Add a leadoff hitter
If you could add a lead off hitter, maybe at 2B moving DeRo to RF, Soriano moves to the middle of the order. This creates an excellent middle of the order with Soriano, Ramirez, DLee, Soto, DeRo, etc. However, they are all RH.
I certainly appreciate the need of LH bats. But, if those LH bats were in the Leadoff and 7/8 holes, plus having a bench guy or two, would that suffice?
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Nov 14, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Piniella/Hendry don't think so...
We have those guys on the roster already (Fukudome and Fontenot). It didn’t work. The braintrust believes that the key is the power LH bat.
As for Soriano in the middle of the lineup: if his inconsistency is a problem at leadoff, couldn’t it be even more maddening in the #3 or #4 spot when we have guys on base and he’s in a slump and swinging wildly at sliders low and away?
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'd be in the five hole.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 14, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally I'd have Soriano in the #5 or #6 spot...
Because there he could still provide production with his power, and when he happened to get on 1B he could be a threat to steal in front of guys with less power than the middle of the order. And in the #5-6 spot, his OBP issues would be less of a liability than higher in the order.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you look at Rafael Furcal
and realize he also fixes our other biggest problem.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which player would you rather have?
Player A .292/.344/.541/.885, RHB, $11.5M, Defense = -6, Postseason: .270/.320/.417/.737
Player B 285/.376/.481/.857, RHB, $5.5M, Defense = +1, Postseason: .350/.422/.600/1.022
Player A is one year older than Player B, and has been injured much more frequently.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Player A for sure...
he seems like a good clubhouse guy.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 14, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dye doesn't fit
Jermaine Dye is a very good baseball player that nobody talks much about. I’d love to have him on the Cubs under different circumstances. But fact is Cubs need a left-handed run producer. Me thinks Raul Ibanez is the object of Jim Hendry’s affection. Cubs will have a disastrous outfield with Soriano in left and Ibanez in right.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 9:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention that Dome will be stretched as a CF.
I think Hendry is keeping an eye on Ibanez but would prefer to spend all his $$$ at pitcher and lead-off hitter and get a cheaper RF.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Almost certain to not happen...
The theme of the offseason so far has been a discussion of getting a younger, more athletic, LH power bat in RF. I think the emphasis is going to be on the LH power part. Dye is a great hitter, but a bad fit as long as we’re building a lineup around Soriano, Lee, Soto, and Ramirez (who are all RH bats).
I’d expect to see Fukudome moved to the #2 spot and the Cubs trying to fill the #4 or #5 spot with a LH RF bat.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hendry already pulled one shocker in letting Kerry Wood walk (the right move)
Maybe (and hopefully) he will trade Derrek Lee?? And solve the issue of a left-handed hitting addition at 1st base?
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be against that in the right deal...
Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening. Letting Kerry Wood go shouldn’t have been a shock to anyone. The writing had been on the wall since the season’s end, in which Hendry made resigning Dempster a priority and simply said “we’ll have to talk with Wood.”
I wouldn’t mind trading Lee in a smart deal, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. I think, with the exception of free agents, trades are going to be made on the margins by the Cubs (like the Ceda/Gregg deal) rather than trades involving key players from the 2008 team.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love...
to trade Lee…and then trade for Roberts, and sign a RF. Roberts at 2nd, DeRo at 1st.
by jbertram on Nov 14, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I may be wrong on this...
…but I have a feeling Hendry is looking to trade one of his core pieces, or at least seeing what he could get. I know you have the NT thing to deal with, but that can be overcome in some circumstances.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 14, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I agree...
I’d be happy with that (assuming it’s a wise deal), but I don’t know that it’s going to happen. I suspect that he’d prefer to make changes on the margins rather than making dramatic changes to a team that won nearly 100 games in the regular season. I suspect he wants to make changes that improve the chances of winning in the postseason without endangering the chances of getting to the postseason. Thus, I suspect he wants to make additions where possible while giving up as few key pieces as possible.
I could be wrong on this as well, but that’s the way I see it.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
The problem is that the market for Soriano won’t open till Manny signs, I think.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that trading Soriano is more likely than trading Lee.
And neither is all that likely.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dye
isn’t the answer, nor are Ibanez or Abreu. Hendry will make a trade for an athletic, LH bad to play RF.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Nov 14, 2008 9:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Name some who are...
a) good
b) available
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Kubel is the option that interests me
(after Hermida).
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Kubel available?
I’d think he’d be a cheap option for the Twins to keep.
Hermida, as you know, interests me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We hash this out a little farther below.
This blog does a good job explaining why the Twins might trade Kubel (it has a lot to do with Span’s emergence).
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tough to identify an athletic LH bat to play RF who might be available
Brad Hawpe is a name that comes to mind, but I can only imagine the pricetag to pry him away from Colorado would be massive. Too massive for the Cubs to engineer.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not the GM
Nobody expected yesterday’s moves. I think another trade is likely. To whom? Don’t know. Isn’t anyone available, if the right offer is proposed?
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Nov 14, 2008 9:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well....
The Cubs have the following chips they could package in a deal…
Sean Marshall, Rich Hill (though I can’t imagine he has any value), various spare bullpen parts of so-so value (Michael Wuertz, Kevin Hart), Felix Pie (as maybe a throw-in)…
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Nationals might be an intriguing trading partner.
Jim Bowden seems to look for reclamation projects and it might be a good “fresh start” location for Rich Hill. One thing is certain, there’s no pressure in DC as they literally don’t have any fans at the games or watching on TV.
How about a swap of Rich Hill and Shawn Hill? Both have had some success but have also struggled quite a bit. Both have also reported to have been injured with Shawn’s being arm related.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Nov 14, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Resuming the Dye debate again...
… doesn’t anyone here think that his postseason performance is significant?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dye is an excellent player
And a big game player too. But he doesn’t fit.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I say...
… that even though he’s a RH hitter, he’d be worth acquiring — for that exact reason. He’s a big game player. The Cubs have flopped in the big games the last two years. The team won 97 games in 2008 but failed in the most critical time.
Isn’t it worth having a guy who has had postseason success?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you trade Soriano for Dye?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Straight up I would...
I don’t think the White Sox would though.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think most of us would.
So, then, the next question is how much more we’d be willing to add in for Dye. I’m not sure Theriot would be enough.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not me personally...
his career postseason numbers are .270/.320/.417. He’s had three really good series (2002 ALDS, 2005 WS, and 2008 ALDS) and four pretty bad series (2001 ALDS, 2003 ALDS, 2005 ALDS, and 2005 ALCS).
I don’t think there’s much to suggest that he’s so dominant a postseason player to offset the team’s desire for a LH bat in RF.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not, but...
… he did win WS MVP in 2005, and at least he has been decent in the postseason, unlike most of the current Cubs the last two years.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lee put up big numbers this year in the NLDS...
But nobody’s saying he’s a productive postseason player. As I said, Dye was really good in three series and pretty bad in four others (not including his 1996, which was REALLY early in his career). Overall, he’s been average in the playoffs.
Given that the team sees the failures of the 2008 NLDS offensively to be almost singularly due to the lack of a LH bat, Dye’s postseason history just doesn’t do enough to offset the lack of being a LH bat.
I’m not saying Dye isn’t a productive player. Just answering your question about the significance of his postseason numbers. Unless he’s putting up Manny-like postseason success (which he isn’t) he’s not going to sway the minds away from wanting the RF to be a LH power bat.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You know who won the WS MVP in 2006?
David Eckstein. Let’s go out and sign him!
CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!
by Keith on Nov 14, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
should we sign
eckstein and council while we are at it?
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 14, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dye would be a key player
I’m all for getting him. I just wonder what would it take to get him.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Nov 14, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of picking up Dye
It’d be for a year, and his postseason experience (he’s won in Chicago – that’s gotta count for something) is significant, especially on a team that seems to have forgotten how to win when the leaves start turning.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this team didn't forget how to win
they just got cold at the wrong time.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 14, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For the second straight year
I’d say some of it borders on forgetting how to win a game, especially when you’re not able to do the routine things that got you there in the first place.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes,
significant in a way that it’s pretty average.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 14, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well if it's between J.D.
or one of the aforementioned RF/LH bats (Abreu, Ibanez or Dunn), I say see what the Pale Hosers want for Jermaine. I’d be good with his Post-Season experience and his solid enough defense coming over to patrol RF for us for a year.
"I love when they play that Go Cubs Win song."
by BMoney79 on Nov 14, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
Brad Hawpe is who I was thinking about also, but no nothing about his contract status, or the Rockies feelings about him.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Nov 14, 2008 9:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He's a good ball player...
but I’d have to see splits. Playing in Colorado you need to investigate a little more, and I am challenged when it comes to that.
by jbertram on Nov 14, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's OPSed .889 away from Coors over the past three years...
.288/.384/.505 with 37 HR and 46 2B in 751 AB. He’s not merely a product of Coors Field.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good to know...
Then I would definitely have interest, he’d probably cost a lot though.
by jbertram on Nov 14, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not much of a chance to get him, honestly
The Rockies would want some pretty good players for him.
CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!
by Keith on Nov 14, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And you're saying
Cedeño, Pie, Veal and Marshall aren’t good?!?!
[Insert the “sarcasm” flashing sign here]
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Nov 14, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Our chance is gone for Hawpe
At the beginning of last season, Colorado was souring on him because they questioned whether he would ever be able to hit left handed pitching. At that point he was considered a candidate for platoon duty. Then, lo-and-behold, he goes out this past season and hits lefties about as well as righties and in the process cemented himself as a full-time player.
by Cubinator on Nov 14, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry is going to fill the need for a LH bat creatively...
I doubt it will be a straight shifting of Dome to a CF platoon, and placing that LH bat in RF. It could be a SS, or a CF guy… I don’t think Lee, Ramirez or Fonzie are going anywhere. As much as Lou loves Theriot, I’m quite sure Lou realizes both his liabilities defensively & his perceived trade value to other clubs. The Cubs might have a new outfield or SS next year.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 9:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
New SS?
If not Furcal, then who?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the obsession
of a lefthanded bat is going to far. I mean if you could acquire Dye for the right price, why not. The guy is a solid player. I rather get a star like Dye, then just add a lefty for the sake of adding a “lefty”
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Nov 14, 2008 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The reason is that the Cubs have to balance the line-up...
They can’t allow other teams to continue to throw nothing but righties at them- like the Dodgers in the NLDS. Players like Reed Johnson don’t get an at bat- the opposing manager can use his pitchers anyway he wants, not having to bring in a lefty.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
But to add a lefty stick, who may not even be half as good as, say Dye, just to add that bat from the left side to me is not the right move.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Nov 14, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We're not going to get someone who's less than half as good as Dye...
That’s just ridiculous. We may not get a bat that is quite as good as Dye’s, but the difference between Dye and whomever we get won’t be nearly that great.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom Line
Fukudome’s flameout, and Pie’s failure to ignite have really pigeon holed the Cubs. If either, or both, could redeem themselves, they would have the same effect as a hotstove move. What are the odds on the two making it in the MLB w/ or w/ out the Cubs?
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Nov 14, 2008 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd say the odds are more in Dome's favor.
Dome is a proven commodity. Sure, he slumped miserably in the second half… but he has proven in Japan, and in the first half that he can hit ML pitching. Pie, while he could still make it in the Majors, has a bigger hill to climb. He needs to prove that he can hit ML pitching, period. He also needs to show the ability to get on base and use his speed during bad offensive stretches- in other words draw walks with plate discipline, and show the ability to bunt, and go the other way.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the biggest thing for Pie is plate discipline...
I see his potential as that of a Mike Cameron type of player (decent but not great power, great speed, great defense, not terrible but not great average). What Cameron was able to do was develop a reasonably good eye at the plate. If Pie can do that, that’s the type of player I think he can become. If he can’t develop better plate discipline, he’s going to continue to struggle to hit at the MLB level.
Fukudome showed he can hit MLB pitching for a brief stretch. Then, he stopped hitting. The question is whether MLB pitching figured him out or whether he just hit a slump. I’m inclined to believe it’s the former. If that is the case, then he has a large hill to climb as well, because he has to make adjustments to handle the change in approach that pitchers have made.
Ultimately, I think Fukudome is more likely to make adjustments soon than Pie, while Pie certainly has a higher top end (much more speed, the potential for more power). If I had to put money on who makes it, I’d say Pie. But both could very well make it and both could very well not make the necessary adjustments.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dye
I haven’t seen him play a ton but the impression that I’ve gotten is that the man is an absolute statue in RF. I think if we’re looking to see a lot of Fukudome in CF then the Cubs cannot afford Alfonso Soriano in LF AND Jermaine Dye in RF. That would not be a good defensive outfield.
by dmlichte on Nov 14, 2008 9:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What is
Mark Kotsay’s status in Boston? Would he fit the bill in CF, allowing Johnson/ Dome to platoon in Rt?
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Nov 14, 2008 10:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I believe he's a free agent
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we they are looking for more of a power bat though.
by jbertram on Nov 14, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So do I
Kotsay would be a good option if the Cubs decided to keep Fukudome in the lineup on a daily basis and wanted to platoon Kotsay and Johnson.
At this point, I would say Kotsay and Edmonds could be that 5th outfielder type, should Pie be moved.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I can tell
Kerry Wood is being pursued by the Rangers. Personally, I wouldn’t mind that..
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 14, 2008 10:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just hope...
he does well where ever he goes, he deserves anything good that comes to him. I not going to say I hope the Rangers go to the series and beat the Cubs if they get him, but barring that, I’ll be rooting for him.
by jbertram on Nov 14, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
however I would feel reluctant to root for him if he went to the Brewers or Cards. Any one else I am fine with..hopefully he goes to the AL
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 14, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DYE
I wouldn’t mind getting Dye before spring training… that is if we couldn’t get anybody better. Maybe though it would make good economic sense signing Dye getting Dye for a season or two. If we can’t get anything better, I’d go for it. During the playoffs, he would be an upgrade. We need somebody who can get the job done during the playoffs since Hendry seems to like players who choke.
by TheHawkRules on Nov 14, 2008 10:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dye is probably going to be a better hitter next year,
but it doesn’t mean he’s going to be the better player. Thanks to his defense, even when Kosuke struggled last year he was nearly as valuable a player as Dye. according to combined fielding metrics, Dye was -7 in right last year while Dome was +15, giving his a huge edge of +22. Dye more than made up for that by producing twenty six more runs, but at the end of the day that makes for a almost insignificant four run difference. Now when you consider that a) Dye is leaving arguably the best hitters park in the majors and only getting older and b) Kosuke will probably be a better hitter next year, the idea of replacing Fukudome with Dye doesn’t look all that great. Even if Dome is the same exact player next year that he was this year there is a very good chance that he could outperform Dye strictly because of the likely age-related regression that Dye will probably suffer from.
by dakoose on Nov 14, 2008 10:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Church or Raul Ibanez
I think our new left-handed hitting addition has good chance of being one or the other.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 10:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Who would you rather have?
Living on the West Coast, I’ve seen Ibanez a lot, and he seems to have been a really clutch guy for an aweful team. Church has the injury history. Make your callm NIU!!!!
Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 14, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Church
Raul Ibanez was a DH for several seasons. I don’t like the idea AT ALL of putting him in right field at Wrigley. Plus he is 36 years old. Church isn’t a star but seems to have the skills and the versatility to make for a nice addition. He could share time with Mark DeRosa in right field, which has the added benefit of getting Mike Fontenot a little more playing time at 2nd base.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One more time, please explain to me how shifting DeRo back and forth between 2B and RF
to produce a platoon for two left-handed batters is a good idea.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only partly true on Ibanez...
he’s been primarily an OF for the past several years. In fact, he was only used primarily as a DH once in his career (in 2005). He’s played the vast majority of his career since 2002 as a corner OF. He played over 150 games in LF in 2006 and 2008, and over 130 games in LF or RF in 2003 and 2007.
Now, I agree with you that he’s not a great fit as an everyday RF in Wrigley. As you say, he’s 36, and he’s never been known as a great defender to begin with. And he’s spent the majority of his time in LF, which suggests he may not have a RF arm. But it’s not like he’s been DHing the past several years. He’s pretty familiar with the role of corner OF.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we're going to expand our search
to include righty power guys for whom we’d need to make a trade, Dye is an interesting option but there are a lot of other potential fits.
I wonder what the price of Dye would be relative to Hermida. Thinking multiple years down the road, I think I’d rather have Hermida if their costs are similar.
by Cubinator on Nov 14, 2008 10:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why is everyone so hung up on getting a lefty slugger?
I genuinely don’t get the obsession with looking for a lefty slugger. I can’t remember a single time during the season where the middle of our order was up and I thought to myself, “I wish Aramis was a lefty” or something like that. For less ancedotal evidence, there’s not even any statistical evidence that the Cubs performed any different against lefties or righties all season (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?team=CHC&year=2008), so even the splits don’t give a good reason as the team was basically a wash against right-handers & left-handers.
Hell, Jacques Jones was a lefty who in 2006 had basically a Ryan Church career average season for the Cubs in right field (both offensively & defensively). Jacques got ran out of town and now we want Church just cause he’s a lefty. Color me confused…
Personally, I want the best guy possible for the most reasonable cost regardless of what batter’s box he stands in. Dye could be good for a year or two, but it would depend on what we give up for him (he’s old enough that I’d be very wary of selling the farm for him). I wouldn’t mind Ryan Church if he was cheap, but I frankly don’t see him providing anything we don’t already have in Mark Derosa if we could get a middle infielder (even giving Fonty a shot) to make Derosa our permanent RF…and I’m not even suggesting that as a solution as much as pointing out that Church isn’t that good of a hitter and he’s among the best lefty options people toss about.
I’ll be the first to admit that maybe I’m not giving lefty hitters enough credit for their importance, but I just don’t get the talk this off season…
by MarchHare on Nov 14, 2008 11:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Lou's blamed the loss on a LH hitter.
So, whether he’s right or wrong, he’s the reason for the hangup.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
And while a LH hitter would be helpful, I don’t believe it’s the one and only reason for the postseason failure. The pitchers didn’t do so well either; neither did the defense. Should we replace all of those too?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm not convinced it's the lefty-lack either.
Fontenot and Edmonds both did well in the post-season.
Derrek Lee’s slump was also at its worst, if I’m remembering this correctly, when Edmonds was emerging and Dome was still hitting. So, lineup balance is nice and all, but I don’t think it’s the issue.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I had forgotten we were just trying to accomodate Lou's wish for a lefty.
I am just afraid that the “we need a lefty slugger!” talk is going to lead us to overpaying for a lackluster player like the “we need a leadoff hitter!” talk did when we acquired Juan Pierre…
by MarchHare on Nov 14, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think the lefty-lack stuff
will lead us to some interesting upside possibilities, especially, hopefully Jeremy Hermida. But a Raul Ibanez signing has potential for what you fear.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to get Hermida...
but I fear that the Willingham trade may have closed that door. I’d love to be wrong about that though, because I think Hermida is a good fit for what we need.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We Need Speed
Yes he’s hit well in the postseason, and God knows the Cubs need that. But he’s a right-handed hitter and the Cubs have more than enough of those. And he’s another one of thsoe “sleepy” guys, we need some fire, spark on this team. Give me a Rafael Furcal, Brian Roberts type of guy for 2b or ss and then maybe we could slip in a Jermaine Dye.
Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re going to be signing any free agents (except maybe Dempster) or trading for any players with significant salaries.
by rememberthecoop on Nov 14, 2008 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Careful with Furcal...
He’s essentially Soriano minus the power (and minus the Ks). In other words, he’s a streaky hitter who goes through stretches in which he’s amazingly productive and then stretches in which he’s useless. Also, he really isn’t any more proficient at getting on base than Soriano is.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is
that Furcal fills a defensive hole for us ably.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's debatable...
I agree there is a hole to fill at SS defensively. I don’t necessarily agree that Furcal fills it, as we’ve discussed already with regard to his back issues.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The LHB vs RHB is relevant, but
is it a smoke screen. The Cubs need a player that crushes RHP. Does it matter what side of the plate they swing from? Take a look at Dye’s splits and tell me why he doesn’t work because he hits righty?
If I’m way off base, I welcome education.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on Nov 14, 2008 11:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think smoke screen is the right word, but...
I don’t necessarily disagree with you. The thing is, prior to 2008, the team was known as a team that struggled against LEFT-HANDED pitching, not righties. Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano have historically been quite adept at handling RHP. In fact, even this year Ramirez killed RHP and Soto and DeRosa did well against RHP (as did Edmonds). It was Lee and Soriano who struggled some against RHP during the season.
The reason I say it’s not a smokescreen is because it sounds as though Piniella/Hendry honestly believe that lack of a consistent LH bat is the problem. If that’s the case, then it doesn’t really matter whether it really IS the problem – it’s simply the case that getting a LH bat is going to be the approach Piniella/Hendry take to try to solve the problem.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it matters to Lou.
His theory is that pitchers get comfortable throwing off the plate into the LH batters box without someone standing there every so often in the lineup.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, but if
Jermaine Dye’s average and power is pretty consistant versus LHP and RHP, and solid, what does it matter that he is RH. Are you saying it is merely the visual of someone on the other side, or someone that hits RHP well.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on Nov 14, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
It’s the physical/visual component of having someone on that side of the plate. Pitchers can’t throw as many pitches into the LH batters box when there’s a guy standing in that box.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.........
I guess I see.
However, as a one year stop gap in RF who is consistent against both LHP and RHP, I vote yes for Dye.
Everything else seems to just put a guy with huge question marks in the LH batters box.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on Nov 14, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Church Only Good on Sundays
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but Ryan Church never erally fully recovered from the concussions he received last year. When / if he does, offensively he’s kind of like a left-handed version of Mark DeRosa, only DeRosa had more power last year. Again, if we can upgrade 2b or ss with a speedy lefty or switch-hitter, we could put DeRosa in RF and we’re done. More than likely, we’ll get a guy to play RF who isn’t good defensively but hits lefty so he fits the bill so to speak. That means DeRosa moves back to 2b and Fonty is back on the bench.
by rememberthecoop on Nov 14, 2008 11:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Al
For the sake of thinking outside the box, what about Jarrod Saltalamacchia?
by leothelip on Nov 14, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
By the way
I also think that either Luke Scott or Ryan Church would be interesting. . .particularly the former.
by leothelip on Nov 14, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Luke Scott
is the best option in my mind
by Glacier on Nov 14, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you like strikeouts. 102 in 475 ABs. If he could cut down on a few of those, he
would be a great pickup. Good power numbers though. He might fit the bill.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 14, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not outside of the box, that's completely out of the
room. A .250 hitting backup catcher/1B? We don’t need a catcher or a 1B. He’s a switch hitter that really hasn’t torn it up from either side of the plate and he hasn’t been able to crack the starting lineup at Texas. No thanks. Pass.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 14, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure why we should be interested...
He’s shown very little to suggest it’s worth going after a trade for him when we could very possibly get the same (or better) performance from Pie. Not that I’m recommending going with Pie (that’s another topic altogether), but Cabrera doesn’t exactly stand out to me as a massive upgrade offensively.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Saltalamacchia can hit.
But what position are you thinking? Outfield?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do we need another OF with questionable defensive skills?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 14, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Al
Yes,
The man can hit and throw. Just showing some outside the box thinking here.
by leothelip on Nov 14, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas gave up a lot to get him. I don't think they are quite
ready to give up on him yet.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 14, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it foregone conclusion that Saltamacchia is headed to the Red Sox to take over for Varitek??
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One Word
No
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 14, 2008 11:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’m not advocating any of these solutions, I’m simply tossing them out there for discussion (just as I did with Rick Ankiel in another thread). There aren’t many good left-handed possibilities to fill Lou’s desire for a middle of the order hitter, are there?
by leothelip on Nov 14, 2008 11:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The ones I can think of:
Hawpe: probably not available
Markakis: definitely not available
Drew: probably not available
Church: possibility; injury-prone
Scott: possibility; probably more of a #6 or #7 hitter
Murphy: don’t know availability; probably not ready for middle of order; my long-term choice
Ibañez: excellent bat, terrible glove
Dunn: see Ibañez
Abreu: wants a 3/$45M contract which is way too much
McLouth: price might be prohibitive, but worth a look
Ankiel: do the Cubs and Cards ever trade? Need a third team
Ludwick: see Ankiel
Swisher: just got traded; do the Yanks really want him?; Which is the real Nick, 2007 or 2008?
Winn: not ideal power, but steady bat and good glove; my short-term second choice
Edmond: getting old, but still productive with enough off-days; good #5 hitter; my short-term first choice
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would trade big time for McLouth
He impressed me more than any other player in the division. He’s young. Will solve CF for years to come. But I understand he may be out of reach.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Nov 14, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think in trading Ceda yesterday
the Cubs eliminated one of the many chips it would take to pry McLouth from Pittsburgh.
McLouth may become expendable, however, with the emergence of Andrew McCutcheon next season. The Pirates have plenty of OFs on their hands, and given their rebuilding situation, I don’t think any player is off limits.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Left off my guy Kubel.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kubel would be great
Is he available? What would the Twins need in return?
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Nov 14, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins are over-stocked in the OF
and there have been rumors of Kubel being available – they are one team that doesn’t need LH bats, since their biggest and best are LH. They need infielders left of 1B.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then we've got the guys for them, don't we?
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
How do you like Kubel’s knees? Confident in them?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be as easy as getting off carpet...
Did the trick for Rondell White, and others- see Andre Dawson.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two major knee reconstructions
Jason Kubel is a DH. He’s been playing the outfield for major league survival sake. He doesn’t belong out in the field. He would be awful option for the Cubs.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kubel's knees make him "awful"
but nary a mention of Church’s concussions. There’s going to be downside to any LH bat we acquire. Ironically, last year no one saw much downside to Fukudome and look how that turned out (so far). Kubel’s a risk, but if his knees check out, he’s got high reward possibility, too.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, DGU,
didn’t mean to diss your guy. :-)
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand it.
After all, a trade for Kubel has a good chance of being a trade of DeRosa.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And another thing...
What is up with you trading Mark DeRosa to thirteen thousand spots? The MVP of the 2008 Cubs in most regards. And you’re prepared to readily jettison him off for a Jason Friggin Kubel.
Crikey.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I personally would rather keep DeRosa.
But there seems to be a lot in the Cubs’ offseason chatter that suggests DeRosa may get traded.
As for a Kubel trade – I’d certainly hope we could work a different swap and keep DeRosa. Theriot-Kubel would be great.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet the Twinkies would make that trade.
Not a bad idea for the Cubs but I’m not sure he can play right field, much less play in the outfield every day. He hasn’t been the same since that devastating injury he suffered to both his knees in the Arizona fall League.
I think it would depend on the medical reports on Kubel whether or not the Cubs would consider that trade.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Nov 14, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the medical reports are a big unknown none of us (except MDBNIU) have access to.
But if the Cubs kept Dome, Pie, and Kubel, they could rotate all three through the OF v. RHP, getting Kubel time off as needed. The same strategy could be employed with Milton Bradley.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine that Kubel would cost that much.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on if Jim is still in
overpay mode.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Raul Ibanez, Ryan Church, Luke Scott seems the likely pool of Cub targets
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...Unless Ludwick
picks up switch hitting in the offseason, not sure how he would be a fit considering he bats right handed.
"Sports are a crazy business. If there was a template, we'd all be champions, right? But there's one winner and 29 or 30 losers; one guy wins, everybody else is tied for last. That's the way it works" -- Mark Cuban
by TheRiot Police on Nov 14, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No to Dye
He ran out of gas this season and last and he’s only getting older. His best days are behind him. He needs to be on an American League team where he could spend much of his time DHing.
Formerly NO100
by jerry morales rules on Nov 14, 2008 12:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i like the idea of dye
plus i figure he will be a type a next year so anything you cantrade can hopefully be replenished
by Glacier on Nov 14, 2008 12:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Stop with the new shortstop routine
Cubs have made a few things clear. One, they like Ryan Theriot. Two, that there are legitimate financial constraints this offseason. Rafael Furcal? Zero percent chance of happening. There will be some other team that gives him a generous three or four year contract and probably lives to deeply regret it.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 12:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kubel or McLouth are excellent options...
Hendry has dealt with Pittsburgh in the past. Probably wouldn’t take much to get him either.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 12:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good grief
Why on EARTH would Pittsburgh trade their best and most popular and a still very cheap player in Nate McLouth !?!? To a division rival no less !!! C’mon people.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why? Because McLouth's upside is huge, and they will never be able to get more in return...
in trade than now. Pittsburgh hasn’t had a winning season in what 16, 17 years, or longer? They need many things; pitching, bats, and everything else. If they are serious about winning, they would be inclined to see what they possibly could get back for McLouth.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right they will listen, because his value is higher as a CF then after they move him off CF.
But the trade cost will be very high, especially to a division rival.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well....good luck with that
I can’t argue with those on this blog who operate under belief that all small market teams across baseball exist for singular purpose to serve as Cub farm system and to trade us their crown jewels for the equivalent of a bag of magic beans.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pittsburgh is the bargain bin of the NL. Everybody knows it.
Stop with the histrionics already. You can spin anyway you want, but it’s still evidently clear that any team can still pluck Pittsburgh, (mainly because Pittsburgh needs so much). See Nady, Marte, etc. Talk to the Pirates about their bag of magic beans from last years dealings with the Yankees…
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McClouth
is young,their lone all-star and the face of the franchise now. More importantly, they only had to pay him 425k last year. They usually don’t dump their good players until their salary becomes an issue.
McClouth is not going to be traded anywhere.
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Nov 14, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrew McCutcheon. There's a reason.
He’ll be manning CF for the Pirates shortly (McLouth was rated as one of the worst CFers in baseball last season).
I don’t think McLouth has the power to man a corner spot, and the Buccos are flooded with plenty of corner outfielder-types.
Neal Huntington has already said that no one is untouchable, so the Cubs could put in a call, at least. Yes, the price would be very steep (and tougher to pry him without Ceda), and I doubt any trade would happen; but, you’d never know until you ask.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap !
Nate McLouth hit 26 home runs !!. How is that “not enough power to man a corner spot”? He also won a Gold Glove !!. So how on earth does that compute with the statement that he is “rated one of the worst CFers in baseball”?
You want Nate McLouth? Then be prepared to offer up something like Josh Vitters, Jeff Spellcheck and a few more good pieces.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, here's how it computes:
"According to John Dewan’s Fielding Bible data, McLouth was 40 plays worse than average, dead last among major league outfielders. According to Baseball Prospectus, McLouth was 17 runs — runs, not plays — worse than an average center fielder. According to Bill James’ win shares, McLouth’s outfield defense was 46th-most-valuable in the majors. This is exactly the sort of award that only damages the reputation of the honor."
From Rob Neyer’s blog So that’s where I got that. And really, Gold Gloves are fairly overrated as a measure of one’s defensive ability.
26 homers is great; 13 of those came in the first 2 months of the season, so one could make the argument that McLouth had an amazing first two months and tailed off from there (I wouldn’t necessarily say that, but you could).
Nate McLouth’s value will never be higher than it is now. Yes, the price would be extremely steep (maybe not Vitters, Samardzija and another piece-high), but it’s worth a call.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Nov 14, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dang, I had no idea.
I was pretty high on McClouth as well. Interesting.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 17, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im all for looking into Jermaine Dye...and for these two reasons....
A) There aren’t any good options for a LH bat in right field……..im not intrigued by any of the names that have been thrown around. And for the people who say they will then have to look for a younger under the radar guy…….remember this team’s window to win is now and I don’t think it would be best to take a chance on a young player just because Lou has an obsession with the LH bat idea.
B) Jermaine Dye has proven to be a very good player, and seems to come up big in big games and situations. While he is getting older, this would be a one year thing, and I defenitely think Dye still has plenty in the tank.
by cubsmania on Nov 14, 2008 12:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly how I'm thinking.
Again, the team is in win now mode. Dye wouldn’t be a Cub for more than a year — there’s no way they’d pick up the $12m option for 2010, you’d do the buyout, so he costs $11.5m for 2009 plus the $1m buyout.
Find me a LH hitter who’s going to be as productive for that kind of money. You can’t.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately for you, I don't think the Cubs are thinking like that...
I think they are dead set on filling the RF spot with a LH batter.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is too bad, because...
… having a single minded idea, without examining other options, is likely to get you the wrong choice.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Personally, I’m unsure of my stance on the LH bat issue. There were several reasons for the Cubs’ demise. One is that they didn’t match up well with the Dodgers (especially when the Dodgers got on board with the patience at the plate thing). The other is that Dempster had one of his worst outings, and after that the team played tight. It might also be that the team doesn’t have a patient, consistent leadoff man. It might also be that the team doesn’t have a LH power bat. And it might also have been some bad luck/bad timing of simply being in a slump at a bad time.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
So focusing strictly on the LH power bat may be leading the Cubs down the wrong road.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you propose to change Lou's mind?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I probably can't.
I can write about it all I want, but I probably won’t change Lou’s mind.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 14, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Therefore,
no matter how stupid it sounds, we need a LHB.
We didn’t need a 2B last winter, but that didn’t stop them from making an offer to Kaz Matsui, did it?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thankfully, they didn't get him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
And I am of the shared opinion that the Cubs have screaming need for a left-handed hitting run producer. This Cub lineup remains too damned dysfunctional. Plus what should be frightening to all of us is the fact that so many Cub hitters had very good years in 2008. Are we going to be able to have that same good fortune two years in a row? Injuries are always a concern. Derrek Lee is in decline phase and unfortuanately the Cubs want to keep him. Etc.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's possible that Kubel or Hermida
could match that if everything went right and they stayed healthy. Ditto Bradley, depending on what he gets paid.
Dunn’s price will end up being interesting. I could see a scenario where he gets paid not that much more than Dye and makes up the difference in production.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Randy Winn....
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Nov 14, 2008 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dye
I like Dye but his D is about the same as Soriano.
On the number thing what if the Cubs were to aquire a future HOFer who wore and was really attached to #10, 14, 23 or 26? Would they even consider talking to Ron, Ernie, Ryne or Billy?
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 14, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dye can go back on a fly ball
As far as the numbers go – not a chance.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 14, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's a reason Soriano is in LF
Soriano’s got range and a very strong arm, but why do you think he’s a left fielder? Jacque Jones had a much, much weaker arm and probably less range. So, why do you think the Cubbies put Jones in RF over Soriano?
Dye’s lost a step or two, but he’s still a better fielder than Soriano.
by DrCrawdad on Nov 15, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fantasyland
Trade Derrek Lee to the Angels for Chone Figgins (Lee takes over for Mark Texiera). Put Figgins at 2nd base. Move Mark DeRosa to right field. Sign Adam Dunn and put him at 1st base…or put Dunn in right field (shudder) with DeRosa going to 1st base.
1. Figgins – 2nd
2. DeRosa – RF or 1st
3. Ramirez – 3rd
4. Soriano – LF
5. Dunn – 1st or RF
6. Soto – Cat
7. Fukudome / Johnson – CF
8. Theriot – SS
Bench….Fontenot, Cedeno, Blanco, Johnson, Kevin Millar type
Rotation….Harden, Lilly, Zambrano, Dempster, Marquis
Pen….Marmol, Gregg, Spellcheck, Guzman, Gaudin, Marshall, New Acquisition
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Slight change...also re-sign Jim Edmonds
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we did that...
I might switch Soriano and Dunn, though that’s debatable.
Though to be completely honest, I’m not sure I’m all that excited by the idea of Chone Figgins. He’s terrible defensively and he didn’t hit much of anything last year. When he was a .360+ OBP guy with 8-10 HR power and 8-10 triples per year, he was a force offensively. Last year, though, he provided even less pop than Theriot.
I might be just as inclined to put DeRosa at 2B, stick with Soriano at leadoff, bat Fukudome second and DeRosa seventh, and hope Lee bounces back than to trade for Figgins.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rebuttal
Well. Chone Figgins gives you athleticism and versatility. In addition to 2nd base, he can play some shortstop. Which would be way of giving Ryan Theriot time off and getting Mike Fontenot’s quality left-handed stick into the lineup. Lou likes these versatile guys like DeRosa and Figgins. And for very good reasons.
Figgins gives us speed and a leadoff option that doesn’t exist right now. Dunn gives us a desperately needed left-handed run producer. Piniella is left with a lot of interchangeable parts.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hasn't the Chone spent
time on the DL each of the last three years?
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
by N Oakley on Nov 14, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on board with Dunn, just not so much with Figgins...
Figgins only gives you versatility in that he’s not really good at any of those positions. And he definitely isn’t a shortstop. Technically, you could have the same versatility from Theriot or Fontenot if you wanted, though Figgins is certainly faster than those two.
My other concern is that Figgins was really poor offensively in 2006 and 2008. If that’s what we’re getting, then it doesn’t address the leadoff spot any more than Soriano does. If he’s the guy from 2007, then we have something. But I’m really concerned that he’s the guy from 2006 and 2008 and not so much the guy from 2007, as 2007 seems like a big outlier.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or how about this -
Trade Soriano to the Angels for Maicer Izturis, Brandon Wood, and the best pitching prospect we can get. Trade for Jeremy Hermdia. Tell DLee now that in Spring Training and the WBC he needs to start going the other way more and prepare to be the Cubs’ leadoff hitter.
1. DLee 1B
2. DeRosa 2B
3. Dunn LF
4. Ramirez 3B
5. Hermida RF
6. Soto C
7. Dome CF
8. Izturis/Wood SS
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure that's at all realistic, but that would be interesting
I think it’s especially unrealistic considering that the Angels already have an overcrowded OF situation.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this comes under the post thread, "Fantasyland"
The Angels are rumored to be connected to Manny and Soriano is exactly their kind of player. I’d take back lil Sarge if the pitching prospect was good enough.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why, Oh Why, DGU
do you seem to greatly value Maicer Izturis and the ghost of Brandon Wood????
Izturis, in over 1200 ML ABs, has an 88 OPS+. And he’s rated at about 2 at SS. Wood has managed a career OPS of 37. (For reference purposes, Jason Marquis has a career OPS+ of 36.) Wood is also rated at -6 for SS, while DeRo is only a -3 at SS.
For that “improvement” the Cubs would be better off with DeRo at SS and LBR/Riot at 2B and not giving up anything. Or putting Marquis at SS.
I wouldn’t mind Matthews at the right price (read: Angels pay his entire contract and take Sam Fuld in return), but I’d rather have Sori unless the Angels cough up some very good pitchers.
(My kingdom for software that will format everything correctly! I’m beginning to hate SBN.)
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood is an unknown quantity at this point...
To reference his career OPS in 150 AB at the age of 23 is ridiculous. I tend to agree on Izturis’s bat. He’s not much of a hitter. I know little about his defense, so I won’t comment there.
But there’s really no point in discussing Wood’s defense or his offense at this point, because we don’t have nearly enough data on him.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Scioscia seems to think that Wood is a worse option than Izturis.
That’s a pretty strong opinion against Wood, IMO. In 2008, he did receive a 150 AB trial and managed an OPS+ of 43. Even a rookie skipping AAA should be able to do better than that. Even Pie has a career 57 OPS+.
Wood, GMJ, and a pitching prospect or three for Sori are not going to make the Cubs better in 2009.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, 150 AB at 23 means next to nothing...
I am not interested in going through the exercise of illustrating how many hitters don’t click in limited experience early in their careers. Yes – Wood did really badly last year. That doesn’t mean he’s going to continue to stink. I’m certainly not going to suggest he’ll be an awesome hitter based on what he’s done so far, but I’m not going to take any argument based on 150 AB at 23 very seriously.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's why I like the Wood/Izturis combo -
1) They both can play SS. What a joy that would be!
2) While neither may turn out, both could, and in the meantime, you get two different types of player to run out there – a speedster, switch-hitter for days when the wind is blowing in and a slugger for days we want a little power boost (especially when Soto’s out of the lineup).
3) Maicer’s stats are dragged down by a 2008 injury – he’s the poor man’s Furcal, capable of OBP and speed.
4) Wood still could be one of the 5 best SSs in 3 years.
5) Did I mention that they are defensively capable of playing SS?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that Wood is a SS.
Part of his problem is that the Halos don’t think he can play SS, and are hoping that he develops a 3B bat. Why play Wood as a -6 SS when DeRo is a -3? I’ve only seen Wood once on TV, but I don’t think he’s a better defensive SS than Riot.
Izturis may appear to be fast, but he only has 45 career SBs (12 CSs). Oh, and his career OBP is .337 — typical Izturis. It’s tough to steal 2B if you can’t steal 1B. Sori has a better OBP.
I still don’t see what the Cubs would gain here — particularly if they have to give up Sori. They would be better off with DeRo at SS and LBR at 2B.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You also gain the financial flexibility to get a LH bat
if you give up Sori.
But everything I’ve read is that Wood can handle SS. I may be wrong. I haven’t seen him play.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which LHB could you get giving up Sori that you couldn't get if you kept him?
Your point is actually more valid if we are talking about moving DLee. There are a number of Adam LaRoche-type LHB 1B around that can’t play anywhere else.
Sori could move to RF for Dunn if LF were the only object of the game.
If Wood were a good defensive SS, he would have been the regular last year. Scioscia simply decided that neither guy was going to hit and he went for defense. Maicer is a good SS, but not nearly as good as his brother, IMO.
If Lou wouldn’t carry Pie’s bat in the #8 spot last season, what are the odds that he would carry either Wood or Izturis when neither is clearly better than Riot (offense and defense combined)?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Lou would last 10 minutes with Brandon Wood
This was my fantasyland scenario where Greg Maddux is the player-manager of the Cubs and Lou plays golf in Tampa.
I think the Angels really liked Aybar and Wood took some time to re-energize his bat last year, so I’m not sure your scenario is right.
I like Dunn a lot better in LF.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
1) maybe. Don’t know much about Izturis defensively, and I know nothing about Wood defensively
2) Izturis is not a speedster
3) see #2. Therefore, he’s a VERY poor man’s version of Furcal (or at least what Furcal was before the back problems)
4) he could be, assuming he can play the position at all defensively and assuming his bat translates
5) see point #1
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like this at all.
Chone Figgins is a worse 2B than Sori. And you want to move DeRo to RF for him?? Granted, Figgins has a Juan Pierre arm, but he will do far less damage to the defense in RF.
Dunn can’t catch a ball to save his life. Put him in the OF where he will only have 3 or 4 chances a game, not at 1B where he might have 15.
And Fontenot is a better SS than Figgins.
Have you ever in your life seen Figgins attempt to play defense?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You sank my battleship !
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
You are the one who thinks that DeRo is the team MVP, and that we are crazy to think about trading him. (I happen to agree.)
Why, then, are you in such a hurry to move him to RF? It will (a) make him unhappy; (b) reduce his worth to the team; and ( c) reduce him to type B status next year.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry Wash Job
Hendry did a wash job on Wood….. why didn’t he offer a one year deal & then let him make his mind up ? This makes Hendry look good but its a business deal…..
No Dye please ….. can’t cover the ground anymore……
Stuck with Gregg who I have watched a lot in FL he doesn’t give up HR’s they say
right his home park is the Grand Canyon….. lets check him out in Wrigley ….. he
had a August meltdown ….. over 10 ERA
by nimblenikelfoos on Nov 14, 2008 2:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
An even more obvious choice is trading for the cereal that stays crisp in milk...
Coco Crisp- he’s likely available with the emergence of Ellsbury in Boston & still wants to start. He doesn’t necessarily give you the power you want- but he can play all three OF spots, has speed, a slick glove, and could lead off, allowing Fonzie to move down to the #3 spot in the line-up…
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 14, 2008 2:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Crisp is not a leadoff man at all...
He’s essentially a #7 or #8 hitter. His career OBP is .331. Last year, his OBP was .344, which is basically his career high. That’s not really any better than what we have now. He DOES provide good defense at any of the three OF spots, but he doesn’t really provide much offensively.
Crisp is a weird case. As of 2005, he looked for all the world like he was going to emerge as an upper-tier hitter. His batting numbers were steadily climbing up, and he was showing signs of developing decent power (15 HR in 2004, 16 HR in 2005). Since 2005, however, he’s regressed. He’s settled into the 8-10 HR range and his OBP fluctuated right around .330. Those numbers suggest that he’s really ideally a 4th OF type.
I’d say no to Crisp. I’d have loved to have gotten him after 2005. Now, I’d pass. He’s a 4th-OF (or bottom of the order hitter) who thinks he’s more than that.
by SouthernCub on Nov 14, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I used to like Crisp - not so much anymore.
If we wanted to get a player like Crisp, I’d rather swap Soriano for Gary Matthews Jr. and use the fact that we’re taking his contract off their hands as leverage to get a bounty of their “younger and more athletic” players, especially a real SS.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 14, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Wood stinks
He was a can’t miss prospect that has missed. Famously so.
McGrath: I got a good deal on those boys. The scouts said they showed a lot of promise.
Reggie Dunlop: They brought their f***in' TOYS with 'em!
McGrath: Well, I'd rather have em playin with their toys than playin with themselves.
Reggie Dunlop: They're too dumb to play with themselves. Boy, every piece of garbage that comes into the market and you gotta buy it!
by MDBNIU on Nov 14, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Figgins
I’ve never seen Figgins play defense, except here & there on TV, but if he plays third base, his arm can’t be that weak, can it? And I have seen Fontenot play shortstop and, well, uh, no. Not good. But – Figgins would be a great addition to the Cubs, plus speed, versatile, switch-hitter. I’d play him one day at third, next day at second, following day in left field, etc. That way, he’s kind of a roving super-utility man who hits well and steals bases. Then, put Fontenot at second and DeRosa in right.
by rememberthecoop on Nov 14, 2008 4:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The way he "plays" 3B is to play everyone shallow.
He doesn’t even back up much for RHB power hitters. He doesn’t have good hands, either, which makes it tougher to pick the tricky hops that he gets from playing shallow. He then throws Theriot-style rainbows across the infield. I have seen worse 3Bmen, but not many. His technique is actually not bad, but bad hands and bad arm doesn’t usually equal a good infielder — especially on the left side.
The problem is that he isn’t a very good OF either. His idea of playing CF is to watch the ball until it reaches its apex, then sprint in that direction. Its hard to cover much ground that way, even if you are fast.
I don’t see how LBR would get much playing time with both Figgins and DeRo around.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 14, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Brian Giles
once Peavy and Hoffman are gone why would he want to stay.
Do the Padres want a one year 9mil contract on a team that will lose 95 games.
by sanders833 on Nov 14, 2008 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not about Dye but about Wood
Wood said in an interview he would have considered a 1 year deal to stay with the Cubs (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/wood-leaving-cu.html).
I thought letting Wood go was a difficult but understandable decision…. IF he wanted 3+ years guaranteed. If he was willing to sign a 1 year deal then you make it work. I´m sorry but is just disgusting that Wood has to go because Hendry gave Marquis 9 million dollars and Soriano an 8 year ludricous deal.
Again, for 3-4 years you have to let Wood walk, but for 1 year? I´m angry, to say the least.
by Luis on Nov 14, 2008 7:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
According to the guys on
Sports night it was Lou who didn’t want Kerry. They said Lou said Kerry was inconsistant. Just repeating what I heard.
by sue369 on Nov 15, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McLouth
Yes Please bring in McMlouth. I was very impressed with him this year. He can go get anything in centerfield, has speed on the bases and hits. What more can you ask for.
by iowacubfan69 on Nov 14, 2008 9:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agree McClouth. Is Burnett not an option?
I think the yankees will choke on their own cash again here, cc seems headed there, but they are acting reactionary (again), rather than thinking through things. They have a new palace to christen, and that’s a big factor, but they are foresaking the near future for luxury box sales. They might end up in fourth.
"Hey Hey, Holy Mackerel, No Doubt About It!"
by scottsdalecubs on Nov 14, 2008 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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