Dempster says no to 4 year, $50 million offer by Cubs
by MDBNIU on Nov 15, 2008 11:19 PM CST
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Or so says what I just heard on the 11:15 PM WBBM-AM sports report. I knew it was nonsense to think Dempster would gladly accept a hometown discount to come back to the Cubs. But if the bidding is going to get north of 4 years and $50 million for Ryan Dempster???? Well then I'm sorry I think the Cubs have to think very seriously about taking a pass and looking at other options. Like for instance Randy Johnson on a 1 year deal. Or maybe look into the medical condition of Brad Penny.
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The Cubs need to
get Dempster locked up…however, I would rather see Furcal and another SP come to the team than to give Dempster a contract over 4/50…
"Why do you always point to the sky when Zambrano starts?" My girlfriend.
"You just wouldn't get it...it's a Cubs thing..." Me.
by cubs2k8isnxtyear on Nov 15, 2008 11:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
4/50 mil is the most I would go
… anything more it is to much to pay for a career year. I think Dempster is a good pitcher but you can’t give him more than 50 million after 1 great year. I agree with the 1 year of Randy Johnson as a possibility. Or obvioulsy Peavy if we can get him with out giving up Vitters.
I wonder if we are going to offer Dempster arbitration to get the draft picks? Does anyone know if we are going to offer arbitration to Wood so we get the draft picks?
by dlee25 on Nov 15, 2008 11:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Let me ask the $64,000 question...
How do you know that 2008 was Ryan Dempster’s career year? One never knows which year is a player’s “career year” until after the player retires.
By your logic, the Cubs would never have signed Mark DeRosa. After all 2006 was his “career year”; why would you overpay him in 2007?
Most people thought that the best was yet to come for the under-30 Barry Zito when the Giants signed him to a 7 year contract. How did that turn out?
The bottom line is that the Cubs need a “front line” (#2 or #3) starting pitcher, and they probably don’t have enough trade chips to get Jake Peavy — especially if they don’t want to give up DeRosa. Therefore, they need to sign a free agent. CC Sabathia is out of their price range, and Brad Penny and A.J. Burnett have more serious and recent injury issues than Dempster.
That means that Derek Lowe — who is four years older than Dempster — and Dempster are the only two guys at the dance. Market forces dictate that the Cubs will either pay one of them 4/$60M or better, or go home with Jason Marquis as the #4 starter.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 16, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Obvioulsy I don't know,
Dempster is a good pitcher but he doesn’t have the dominating stuff like Peavy, Zambrano, Harden. He depends on his control and obvioulsy he was lacking his control game 1 of the playoffs. Do you want to commit more years and more dollars to a guy who got lit up when it mattered most? I think 4/50mil per year is more than fair. Now I dont know that last year was his career year but I do think that it was a statistical outlier for him as a starter.
by dlee25 on Nov 16, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a second here...
“Most people thought that the best was yet to come for the under-30 Barry Zito when the Giants signed him to a 7 year contract. How did that turn out?”
Who are these “most people” outside of Peter Magowan and Brian Sabean? Him returning to the elite levels he showed in 2002-03 didn’t seem likely. Exceeding those—the best was yet to come—was an even bigger pipe dream.
You can poke around for the reaction written at the time; but it was mixed at best, “Mike Hampton-level stupid” at worst.
by bison on Nov 16, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Zito was a bad contract before the ink dried
his numbers were declining quickly after his Cy Young season
by JPetey on Nov 16, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely ridiculous
dempster should be drooling over a 4 yr 50 mil contract. he hasn’t done anything except for last year. Him as a closer was mediocre at best. I could even argue that Derek Lowe is better than him same with AJ Burnett and Brad Penny (healthy). If he wants to up the price, the cubs should just let him go, sign a good pitcher like Lowe and use the rest to sign a good RF like abreu. No sense in increase the money when he hasn’t proven anything as a starter. I understand that he has a family to feed and all that, but if the contract was for 12 mil a year then I think Dempster is completely full of himself.
Go out and get peavy first a foremost. I hate hearing stupid stuff about prospects and such. Nobody in the world right now could tell me Josh Vitters is the next albert pujols or manny ramirez. Nobody could tell me that Jose Ceda was the next Jonathan Broxton. Nobody could predict “prospects” because they could go either way. The future is the present. The cubs need to do anything in their power to win right now. Whether that’s trading Vitters or Colvin or whoever. If you can guarentee to me that the so called “prospects” will be the next great star, then keep them. If not, trade them if the situation calls for it.
I love kerry wood. my favorite cub player of all time. Don’t get mad at cub management. Even though he says he would take a 1 yr deal, i don’t believe that for one moment. And if it was for 1 yr it would be for at least 10 mil. That was the right decision to make even though it broke my heart. As for Gregg, he’s a good pitcher. the memories were great kerry.
by lexmarklover on Nov 15, 2008 11:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
re:
problem is, we might not have enough prospects to do it anyways. There’s been indications that we need to find good pitching to swap over, and not many teams fork over quality young arms these days.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 1:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point Hendry needs to
say thank you very much for a very nice season and goodbye. Like dlee5 said, considering how empty our farm system is we could definitely use the picks. Whichever team gives him more than 4 and 50 will probably regret it.
by dakoose on Nov 15, 2008 11:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If we don't get Peavy, things look pretty bleak.
Losing Wood and Dempster would make us worst.
If we can’t get Peavy, this is what I would do:
Sign Penny to 1 year incentive laden deal. Don’t forget that Penny was a top 10 pitcher 2 years ago.
Sign Johnson to 1 year deal.
Sign Beimel
Sign Furcal
Devin Hester, you are ridiculous! -Jeff Joniak
by ARAM FOR MVP on Nov 16, 2008 12:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would't lose a lick of sleep over losing them both...
so what? I’m likely looking at a 87-92 win team without them? That should still keep the Cubs in the NL mix, at least to start the season. I mean hell, you may be lookinig at that anyway, as Dempster is just not likely to duplicate 2008 next year, if ever again.
Make a trade for a respectable top-of-the-order hitter, sign a solid lefty to round out the pen, and take that 15 million per and throw out some offers:Colon, Garcia, Johnson, Penny, et. al are healthy, ready to pitch, and won’t cost them that kind of crazy money. Draft picks either. And I’d put my money on those guys outproducing Dempster in 2009. Well, at least half of them.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Freddy Garcia is intriguing.
I know the Cubs worked him out before he signed with the Tigers. He seems healthy again. An incentive-based deal, perhaps with a vesting option year if he makes 30 starts, might be worth looking at.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia is high on my interest list.
Koji Uehara is higher.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 16, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia is cheaper.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The bidding on Furcal
Is going to be crazier than Dempster. Stay away from him and Penny.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
I don’t know about that. Pitching is always lusted after and Dempster is arguably one of the top 5 arms available. Add in Furcal’s desire for a long term contract, along with his injury history, and I’m not sure. A lot of teams want him, but I think he might have to sign a Magglio deal (if he gets hurt, the team can opt out type thing without a big loss).
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Won't happen...
Magglio was forced into that deal when the market absolutely refused to make greater than a one year, incentive-laden deal, as his knee was so bad, there were questions about him making it through the first season. It just happened that Detroit really, really wanted the guy, and did that deal structure to have some recourse.
Truth is though, there was really no protection past the second year of the deal, as I recall. And even that was very questionable, but I suppose that’s beside the point.
Furcal on the other hand has been offered at least one multi-year so far, proven that he’s recovered from his most recent injury, and appears to have no qualms about shorter-term contracts. He’ll get three years minimum, and it will be without condition and pricey indeed. Hell, you have to offer a third year now just to trump the LA offer.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Any substantiation to this story?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Nov 16, 2008 12:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just tried to google it and didn't find anything
Could someone provide a link?
by Madison Cub Fan on Nov 16, 2008 1:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda
figured he was gonna get crazy with his demands. I cant blame him one bit even though I’m a cubbie fan. stay hurt alot, work really hard, have a career year and let some dummy pay you some absurd contract.
i’m about to throw up with each and every post about not keeping kerry wood. he’s got a 10 million dollar heart as well as 10 million dollars worth of talent. problem is he has a10 cent arm. stick to your guns which you havent done alot b4 and let him go. let demp go too. he’s not worth it.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 16, 2008 12:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If dempster wants more....
Hopefully we can get peavy. I don’t think dempster will repeat what he did…I think he will be a # 3 or 4 type pitcher over his next contract. I would spend the money elsewhere.
by cubsmania on Nov 16, 2008 12:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
not really a surprise
Market value is probably around 15 AAV. Look, I don’t think that’s fair, but that’s probably market value. I came into this offseason thinking we could perhaps inch up to 4/52ish. If he wants close to 4/60, then you let him go. If he wants 5 years, you let him go. Anywhere around a 13 AAV is okay, I think.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 1:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just did a Google Sports News search and couldn't find anything about this report...
so I don’t know if this is true. Anyway, as Dempster said this year:
“Absolutely. I love it here,” … “I love the city. I love playing here. Hopefully, everything works out”
I’d say $50 million is incentive enough?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Nov 16, 2008 6:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That last part isnt too convincing
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Nov 16, 2008 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If 12.5M for the next 4 years isn't good enough...
then let him walk. As much as I love Demp, he’s not worth anything more than that. Committing 50M to a guy coming off of ONE good year is incredibly generous.
by kanderber on Nov 16, 2008 8:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Id rather they go after Lowe with that money
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Nov 16, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
I’m expecting 4/60 perhaps for Lowe.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no corroboration for this story...
…. no links anywhere. I’ll wait till I see it somewhere else before I make any comment.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 9:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I won't...
There have been rumbling around baseball for weeks that his people were looking for a 5th year, and 70 million plus.
Walk. Away. Offer him and Wood arbitration, and pocket those picks. If the Cubs are really lucky, their farm system won’t stink in a couple of seasons. I feel like I’m looking at the Soriano redux, paying extreme top dollar for only good productivity. I’d sooner take my chances with Randy Johnson for now, or make that offer to Derek Lowe, and see what develops at the trading deadline.
Forget concerns about the Cubs financial constraints. Ryan Dempster thinking he’s worth 15 million per in a down economic market is the real insanity.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Dempster may find no offers at that price.
You’re right that Dempster and Wood should both be offered arbitration. By early December their best moves may be to accept.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely cannot wait...
until the MLBPA gets their next comeuppance. 75 million for Dempster? Teixeira looking for a quarter-billion? And ever more arrogant about it, to boot.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
blaming the mlbpa isn’t quite fair in this. They are simply going after the money that’s out there, which is within their right. You might not remember, but the dramatic rise in payroll has only happened in the last 3-4 years, after a couple years where there was a bit more constraint shown by clubs. simply put, baseball is still flush with money. until teams show restraint, i see no reason why a player should show restraint.
short of it is, you have to blame both sides of the process. blaming one side alone is a flawed way of thinking.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If someone gives Dempster...
…5 years and 75 mil, they should get their head checked.
I try to sign him and would raise the per year amount to about 13-14 mil, but for only 3 years vs 4.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 16, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How can you offer Wood arbitration and risk that he accepts it if Lou doesn't want him back?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 16, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because you want the draft picks.
Letting a free agent like that go without taking the picks is irresponsible.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What if he accepts when Lou clearly doesn't want him?
You then either have to trade him — which is certainly possible — or cut him after the arb hearing, which would be a PR disaster.
I am basing these statements on my firm belief that Wood’s departure has absolutely nothing to do with money and everything to do with the fact that Lou wants him gone.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 16, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou doesn't want him?
This is the first I’ve heard of this, did I miss something? Please clue me in.
"I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player"
-John Kruk
by thinskull on Nov 16, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was reported on
Chicago Tribune Live late last week.
by sue369 on Nov 16, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks!
"I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player"
-John Kruk
by thinskull on Nov 16, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really
Wow, I missed that. That’s surprising. Did they give any indication as to why Lou doesn’t want him?
by kanderber on Nov 16, 2008 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou thinks
Kerry is too inconsistant. This is Paul Sullivan, Fred Mitchell and a few other Tribune reporters so take it for what it’s worth. I know Sullivan doesn’t have much credibility on here.
by sue369 on Nov 16, 2008 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We get it Sue...you hate Lou Piniella
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 16, 2008 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 16, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell is wrong with you?
I have never said I hate Lou. Just because I don’t get all orgasmic about him like you do doesn’t mean I hate him. I was repeating for kanderber what was said on CTL.
by sue369 on Nov 17, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not going to happen
Wood may have been treated badly by Hendry et al but sadly he knows when he is not wanted and he can certainly
get a better deal on the market.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 16, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 16, 2008 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, he's the top 1 or 2 FA after CC....
and 4/50 isn’t going to get it done. Let him walk, get the picks, and get a true lead-off guy, and big LH bat.
by Bud Man Cub Fan on Nov 16, 2008 9:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Harden
Zambrano
Lilly
Marquis
Johnson/Peavy/Marshall/Samardzija/Gaudin/Guzman/Hill
wouldn’t mean the Cubs fall out of contention, by any stretch.
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
by JohnM on Nov 16, 2008 9:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
SD Union Trib
reported this morning that Peavy while in Puerto Rico told a group he was with that he would not be going to Atlanta leaving the Cubs as the only viable option. The source also said Grace and Sutcliffe have wowed Peavy about the virtues of playing in Chicago.
Also mentioned in the article was that Dempster wanted more than 4 years and the Cubs were not going there.
Peavy and Johnson for me. Dempster can takes his one-year wonder stuff elsewhere.
by socalbob on Nov 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whether Peavy wants to come to the Cubs is irrelevant.
It’s whether Towers will take what Hendry is offering. Mr. Motormouth in San Diego apparently hasn’t liked any of Hendry’s offers.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not irrelevant at all
Clearly Peavy is forcing Towers to negotiate with ONLY the teams he will go to. Towers desperately wants to negotiate with the
Yankees , Red Sox. Mets etc but they are not on Peavy’s list and Peavy has a LONG term contract so it is not like you are just asking him to spend a season where he does not want to. Clearly the ONLY reason Towers has spent so much time talking to the Cubs is because they are high on Peavy’s list. It is an interesting game of chicken but Peavy has the uppper hand because he is content in
San Diego even if they are going to be bad but Towers basically has to trade him. Perhaps the Yankees can offer him enough incentive to do it but I doubt it, keep in mind his closest baseball advisor is the same guy who turned down the money from the Yankees over 15 years ago and loathes the American League.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 16, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
for the most part, I agree, although I’d note that, if they clear off Chris Young, Brian Giles, Khalil Greene, they might be able to afford Peavy under their small payroll, at least, for 2009, as Peavy is only 11 or 11.5 million on the AAV. So, Towers does have some leverage if he can move the other pieces, particularly Giles and Greene.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No he doesn't actually,
but if you believe that, Sandy and Kevin have a bridge that they’d like to discuss with you.
They’re all gone man. As soon as they can figure out the haul for Peavy, most of those guys will start getting shoved out the door as well.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
That is a ridiculous comment on your part.
First, did you read the comment? I said he might be able to afford. Let’s look at why I said that.
They are targeting a payroll of around 40 million. They can construct a payroll with Peavy and Adrian that costs around 25-30 million. If the payroll is the focus, then of course it is possible.
The suggestion that you, and other Cubs fans, have made is that they’ll take any deal out of payroll necessity. My point is that, while I think Peavy essentially gets moved, to suggest that Towers is locked into making a bad move for a move’s sake is a flawed argument. Otherwise, he would’ve taken the deal from the Braves and moved on (it’s a better package than what the Mets paid for Santana, and it’s not that far off in value from what the Mariners paid for Bedard).
Again, their focus this offseason, with Peavy, isn’t trimming payroll as much as it has to do with getting a return. They can trim payroll other ways.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now this I find interesting...
I’ve never made that suggestion. As I matter of fact, I’m publicly on record as not being a fan of a trade at all.
That said, to say or even suggest that Kevin Towers is negotiating from a position of strength is simply comical, and frankly, I’ve only seen it suggested by those who I’m certain have no training or experience in negotiations. Furtherm I’ve never seen anyone suggest that Towers should would take a bad deal. We’re all simply shocked by how he’s painting himself into that corner.
And yes, there are rumblings out of San Diego that both Greene and Giles may be headed out as well.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
please read my comment before posting
I said, for the most part, I agree with Doggie’s statement. What I have said is that the suggestion that Towers has no leverage is flawed and I will hold to that.
I posted in your other thread, but I’ve worked in negotiations a bit, along with studied it, and Towers is making the best of a bad situation. The fact that he’s talking fits inline with current negotiation theory when dealing from a weaker position. He’s resetting the market, amongst other things. It’s actually the only play that he has.
Real quick, but Towers had to alert other clubs to let them know that the bidding was open. He’s done that, along with Axelrod helping him out by saying that Peavy is willing to go to other clubs. He’s appeased the fan base. He’s also sending a necessary public message to the Cubs/Braves.
To say that Towers has negotiated through the public is flawed. If Towers did that, that would be stupid. Not once has Towers specifically come out to say the specific dynamics involved. He’s sending a mesage, though, which is absolutely needed.
Again, as noted in the other thread, sometimes negotiations theory doesn’t work in real life, but overall, he’s making the best of a bad situation, as he was ordered to do it.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...
You can’t reset a market in which an oligopoly exists. And whether the Padres like it or not, that’s the case here. At least until Peavy says otherwise.
A shrewder talent would have done a few things differently, not the least of which was agree to a mutual gag agreement with the Axelrod team, and establish - or “reset” - the market by establishing the terms under which that short list could be broadened in advance, rather than playing this game of ongoing trilateral negotiations. But he didn’t, thinking he could play Peter against Paul — or Hendry against Wren — and Wren shook him off publicly, like a good negotiator should.
Now, they can keep playing this game in the media if they like, always having a ready quotable for any writer calling. But until they can get some consensus from the Peavy people, this is going nowhere. And let’s not forget that as the cost of the Peavy contract increase, the Padres return should shrink accordingly, only making the problem worse.
The Padres should have took the Atlanta deal. It’s Peavy’s show, and everyone knows it.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
reset was the wrong word
I was in a rush
There’s a few clear flaws in your post. Amongst other things
1) Your making an assumption on Axelrod/Peavy (the shortlist) that has been repeatedly said to be untrue by everyone involved in the process. Short of it, leaving the theoretical element alone, every indication has been that Peavy will listen on other teams. Taking it to my post below, what move, what play could Towers have made that enhances the market, let’s Peavy know that there’s a suitor he’s amenable to, while keeping the Cubs/Braves options alive as much as posisble?
This leads to another big flaw that you’ve made
2) This didn’t start at a neutral position. Towers started with a deficit. In essence, from where this started, you’ve made a flawed assumption on power.
_________________________
Again, I am not saying that Towers has the advantage or that he’s done great in these negotiations,but based upon every dynamic that we know of, I think to suggest he has no position to work with is flawed, and what I have said is that I think his last play was the right play, which I’ve discussed in the below post.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
since you are so well versed in negotiations
let me ask you then, what should towers have done? he is
a) Being order to cut payroll
b) Being limited by the market
Also
c) Teams had backed away, by most accounts, thinking that Peavy’s 5 was it.
_______________________________
As Axelrod noted the other day, and as he has hinted at for awhile, Peavy has only crossed one team off. No one knows who that is, although most speculation suggests it is not the Yankees or the Angels. Axelrod has also suggested multiple times that Peavy is willing to go to other places for the right compensation.
________________________________
So, what move should Towers have done? Should he have gone back to Axelrod and Peavy and said will you please open the list up?
________________________________
Let’s forget about theory for a moment. Let’s also forget about other negotations, other practices and judge this for this.
Towers was stuck. In one move,
a) Towers has expanded the market.
b) Towers has set the market for Peavy, by passing on a package that was greater than Santana’s last year in value, and close to Bedard’s.
c) Towers has let the Braves and Cubs know they aren’t out of it.
d) Towers has essentially told Peavy that, if you want out, I’ve got a deal that I think can be made (likely with the Yankees).
e) Towers has appeased a fan base (while not important, it is a nice plus)
What other play could he have done, outside of negotiating in public, to attain these results?
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This has already been covered in my last post
and I’ve no interest in extending this conversation much further. Towers is negotiating with the wrong people, likely because Axelrod told him to go get bent. Peavy is fine staying in San Diego.
Many of the things that appear to be going on now should have been done in advance, including the extracting exact parameters under which Peavy would agree to broaden that list. But again, he’s cool to stay, so if he’s leaving, why should he expand it past a select few other places that he’d love to be? And letting the Braves walk away from the negotiating table with this whole thing being so public was very disturbing.
But you believe what you like.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
to each their own. you’ve completely missed a few points, while sounding arrogant at the same time. as noted above, you’ve made several assumptions that have proven to be untrue based upon what we know (now, if you know Axelrod and Towers personally, then sure, maybe your assumptions are correct on the trade dynamic).
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Petition to ban the "sigh" from BCB
"The object of a ball game for the fan is not to be entertained. It is to win." - Max Lapides
by CaliCub on Nov 16, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seconded, and apologies
I got annoyed with his tone and his previous sigh, but I absolutely agree.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Towers basically HAS been negotiating in public.
If I’m Peavy and his agent, I’m not real happy with that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
Al, Axelrod has been a part of the public negotations. In fact, it’s been suggested by some that Towers moves are either made with Axelrod’s approval, or that Axelrod is working with Towers.
Anyhow, sent you an email.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I wonder why they want to negotiate that way.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damned if I can figure it out...
especially from the Peavy camp.
But toonster, don’t take my comments as a personal slight. There are some very troubling trends in player-personnel across baseball that I see growing, and these circus shows are at the top of my annoyance list.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
As I loosely touched upon somewhere, the fault lies with MLB as much as MLBPA, the agents, and the players. MLB had a chance to anticipate some things in the last cycle of negotiations, but they failed to do so. A lot people were surprised back then that they failed to anticipate some of these things.
I’m not absolving the PA, agents, players, but there’s very little that can be done, outside of one thing, but that one thing (legal that is) is almost unlikely to occur.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t get it, I really don’t. There’s a lot of money in baseball. Why are people like Peter Angelos more deserving of that money than people like Jake Peavy? Because if you keep salaries down, that money is just more profit for the owners.
by cwyers on Nov 16, 2008 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
I’ve never said that the players shouldn’t get paid. My general position has been that of indifference about wages, so as a practice, I’ve no issue.
That said, I think I made a comment earlier about the MLBPA getting a bit of fiscal insanity, and I stand by that. It’s very difficult to ignore the inflation levels with the salaries on the middle class of players. When teams are paying 12-15 million on good-but-not-great relievers providing 60 innings of relief pitching, maybe things are getting a bit out of hand.
And you know, it wouldn’t be a crime to try and keep prices on the end product down for a bit instead, especially in a declining economy. Make sure fans can keep coming and consuming, and possibly even help to grow the fan base with stable prices.
Or cough, improve the farm system cough, cough.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 16, 2008 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
we’ve actually seen the last thing happen to an extent. A cursory analysis of recent years (I believe some site wrote something more detailed on this, but I don’t have subcriptions to sites anymore) and we see prospects getting more highly valued. This could be for a variety of reasons, but certainly, it wouldn’t be a reach to suggest that the rising costs are a key factor.
at the end of the day, though, the only way things change in player costs is if the owner’s bottom line is impacted. I think, rather than the owners keeping prices down because of the economy, that the economic downturn is more the motivating factor. I guess, no one really knows until we see how things progress.
There are some measures they could look into to control costs for the next CBA, but the owners will have to give up something big to get something, unless the economic downturn lasts for a few years (and I don’t think anyone wants that).
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're looking at it from the wrong angle.
Do you think that MLB is going to charge less than they can – that is, less than the market will bear? No. MLB will charge as much as they possibly can for whatever they can, regardless of what happens with player salary.
You seem to think that player salaries are driving revenues, when really revenues are driving salaries. The only – ONLY – thing that happens by cutting player salaries is giving more money to the owners, who are all people that need the money even less than the players do.
by cwyers on Nov 17, 2008 2:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
i don’t think we are disagreeing. At the end of the day, owners can do all the griping they want, but the escalating costs lay at their feet just as much as they do with the players and their agents. Furthermore, I think it is unlikely, based on how the last CBA negotiations went, that the owners will be able to implement any level of controls that have much meaning, but hey, who knows.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
honestly
I think they are trying to get them to push the Cubs/Braves to act.
_____________________________
For Towers, the public comments allows him to also put pressure on Peavy to let him know that an out exists. Doesn’t mean I think it’s a fabulous move, but rather, I think it was Towers only move that he could make that made sense.
A gag agreement, as others in this thread have suggested, wouldn’t have changed anything because the dynamics set in place prior to the start of negotiating. That’s an important issue that people are missing. This didn’t start out in neutral positioning.
To be real honest, I think Towers knows what Peavy and Axelrod will approve already and knows he’s run into a wall, despite the public comments. It’s just a guess on my part, as I obviously don’t know them. I don’t think he really had any choice here, it was the last card to play that he had.
One other thing about this play – Atlanta wants a top of the rotation pitcher this offseason. There’s only a handful, and Atlanta is saying no to CC and Sheets, leaving Dempster/Lowe/Burnett. They very well could miss on all three. It’s a bold move, but I don’t see any other move that made much sense for Towers. Blaming Towers is flawed – this was a guy getting ready for a race, but handcuffed to the wall at the start.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 8:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are reasonable "Plan B's"
Ben Sheets, Brad Penny, Carl Pavano. Heck, even Andy Pettitte. Atlanta rarely makes bad financial calculations. Whoever they bring in to that rotation will get my attention.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 16, 2008 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
They’ve said no to Sheets. Maybe they change course on that. Pettite is likely Houston/Yankees, with the Dodgers as an outside shot.
Haven’t heard much on Penny/Pavano, but I don’t know if they qualify as the top of the rotation options they wanted. I could see them scout Japan.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Calling Mike Hampton...
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 16, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you think Kerry Wood is an injury risk...
… why wouldn’t you think the same about Sheets, Penny and Pavano, all of whom have similar checkered histories?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't touch...
…any of those guys with a 10 foot pole.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 16, 2008 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Axelrod and Towers
are extremely close friends. Their families vacation together, etc etc. There is a strong suspicion amongst some that this whole Peavy negotiation, and the way it has been conducted, was mutually agreed upon between Barry and Kevin beforehand.
by azjazzman on Nov 16, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yup
that’s been heavily rumored.
Now, if this is true, to be real honest, I think it was a mistake for Towers to get into such a situation. He needs to watch out for his team first, and if the speculation is true, that, at the very least, Axelrod knows every move that Towers may make beforehand, then Towers puts himself into a bind.
To be clear, despite my comments in this thread, Towers has made some mistakes. He started in a bad position, and we can debate his most recent comments and their value, but he should never have made the train comment. There’s a couple other moves that were foolish. Now, if Axelrod knew ahead of time, then maybe they are setting people up.
That said, one thing Towers did that was brilliant, if the reports are correct, was that he continued to engage the Yankees. My gut feeling says he’s got a framework for a deal ready with the Yankees. I mean, for the Yankees, for all the talk about signing Sabathia/Lowe or Burnett (I’m still not sold Sabathia goes to the Yankees), getting Sabathia/Peavy and saving some money to go after another positional piece might end up being a better move, provided they don’t give up the farm (and considering the Braves package, I think they Yankees can offer a solid package while maintaining a lot of chips since they have pitching throughout the system).
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me, I think Towers has backed himself into a corner.
By saying “that train has left the station”, he’s pretty much said he’ll deal Peavy, period. Right now, he’s rejected several offers of varying value.
The longer this goes, the less he gets.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 17, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
one other comment. it should be noted that axelrod has strongly suggested that Peavy will go to other clubs … at the right cost.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For Peavy,
staying in SD is great. He should have one more big payday coming if he stays healthy and pitching in PETCO is a good way to make that payday even bigger.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 16, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My Guess
demp gets 4yrs at 13.5 and wood gets 3 at 8.5. both absurd. this is exactly what got us into this mess. stay away
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
just a thought
looking over next years FA starting pitching, seems this years class is 100,000 times better.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 16, 2008 1:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I want to add a few thoughts...
1. FOur- 50 is the farthest i would go.. If we dont resign him and go with Randy instead we get wo picks plus save 6 million on contracts and according to bill james might get a better performance…..
2. Take his extra six and kerrys money and go after dunn or furcal….
3. I knew this was going to happen. It is absurd to think that we were going to get these guys at absurd discounts
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Nov 16, 2008 3:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Peavy's going to be a Cub.
As options decline, that doesn’t mean the Padres will hold onto him. They want his $$$ OFF the payroll. This deal will take time, but the Padres may have to settle for less than what they want.
Ryan Dempster’s a great guy, but that’s more than enough money for a player that had his career year and may never duplicate it.
Besides, his ‘declaration’ (of a refusal) cannot be substantiated…yet
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Nov 16, 2008 4:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I may collect free meals all spring training.
Want to put one on that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 16, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago Chop House
Best filet mignon I’ve ever had. Down the street from Portillo’s.
"The object of a ball game for the fan is not to be entertained. It is to win." - Max Lapides
by CaliCub on Nov 16, 2008 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster....
If this is true, it’s kinda scary. I like Dempster, but fear he won’t ever win 15 games in a season again. I personally felt resigning Wood would have been more important than resigning Dempster. If a crappy starter had to replace Demp, then pitch crappy for 5 innings and have a stronger bullpen take over. I think that is better than a stronger starter-weaker bullpen.
Anyway… Demp and Wood are supposed to be good buddies. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them on the same team in ’09… just not the Cubs. If Wood feels wronged by the team, I am sure it will rub off onto Demp.
I’m scared now… Hendry has made some bad financial boo-boo’s that is just now starting to hurt the team. Long term/high price contracts for crappy players is causing us to lose some of our good ones. I worry that by signing Demp to a long-term/high-priced deal will be the straw that breaks the camels back. Especially if Demp doesn’t put up another good year and if the Cubs can’t win it soon. The longer it takes to win it, the harder it’s going to be. That’s what I think.
Anyway…. Come on Hendry…
by TheHawkRules on Nov 16, 2008 5:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm amazed that you feel that
the ‘buds’ would want to stick together. It’s touchingly naive. In the majority of cases, the team with the best offer wins, even if it’s not in the players best interest.
If Dempster and Wood are great buddies, they can spend all the time they want together in the off-season.
This ain’t “High School Musical.”
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Nov 16, 2008 5:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Amen
There has been so much “yeah, but…” rationalization around Wood and Dempster. Yeah, but Kerry Wood and his wife built a house in Chicago and love it hear. Yeah, but Dempster loves the Cubs and is only too willing to give the club a generous hometown discount. Yeah, but Wood and Dempster wrote their names in permanent Sharpie ink in the clubhouse toilet stall…
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 16, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
are they really great buddies?
maybe I should post this in thehawkrules post. anyhow, are they really great buddies? i mean, i’m sure they are friendly, but i don’t know where the idea that they are great buddies is coming from? maybe i missed an article or a statement somewhere.
by toonsterwu on Nov 16, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless they are cojoined twins
They can stand playing in different cities. I mean… jeez, people. This is a freaking JOB. People move on all the time.
There is one motivation that drives players. Money. Period.
Those that have money want MORE money. Those with more money want still MORE money. You don’t live in their world. Yes, they are set for life. They don’t want to be “set”
They want to buy stuff. They want to buy MORE stuff. They want to be able to walk up to any woman in the country and say, “Whatever your price is to sleep with someone, I can meet it.”
They want their Christmas lists to include new cars and hotels and planes and cases of Nutter Butters, not the cheap cologne and stupid scarves we exchange.
Never ever ever believe a player wants anything but a bigger dollar.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 16, 2008 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It’s all about the money. Sometimes we’ll see a guy take a little less, say maybe 5-10% less but it’s not like he’ll get a $70M offer somewhere then take “just” $50M from the Cubs.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Nov 17, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If this is true
at 4 years 50M, and Demp says no, well good luck and you can thank the Cubs for resurecting your career.
I would look into Penny, two years ago he was tremendous, 16-5, if my memory is good.
I mean it is obvious the Cubs are not going to dish out the coin this year. They will flea market shop, so get the best deal you can and hope you catch some luck and one of these injury prone ( Johnson, Penny, Furcal) players has a strong year.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Nov 16, 2008 5:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How much does he want???
If he wants 14 or 15 mill, we could probably have both Randy Johnson and Brad Penny for that price. I’d rather take those 2 on 1 year deals given the Cubs payroll situation. Locking Dempster in at that price means that he has to be our #2 for sure…because we likely wonlt have the money to sign another top line starter for a couple years unless more salary dumping trades are made. Plus Harden might be gone next year. Is Dempster that guy??? I dunno. Personally for that money I would go with a surer bet such as Lowe, RJ, or Penney who maybe risks but have track records of success for more than 1 year.
If Dempster really turns out to be that #2 somwhere else…thanks for the draft picks and helping us transition since our window is 3-4 years max…need to restock that farm system to help us in the future too when other players get more expensive. We’ll need those internal options…Hopefully Wilken will find some gems with those picks
by Bleeding Cubbie Blue on Nov 16, 2008 11:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Don't know
…if this has been mentioned, but recently when Toronto G.M. J.P. Riccardi was asked if Toronto would pursue Canada Native Dempster should they lose A.J. Burnett, he said, sure they would interested, “but we would probably have to blow him away to get him out of Chicago”.
by azjazzman on Nov 17, 2008 10:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and when asked if he knew how to breath...
…Riccardi thought about it for a second, panicked and started trying to breath through his ears instead of his mouth. He promptly passed out.
by cwyers on Nov 17, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According to Levine on ESPN 1000
He’s supposed to come back to the Cubs in a day or 2 on the 4yr-$52M offer. Sounds very close to the previous so maybe $13M for 4 years could be close to the ceiling he’s heard from other teams.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Nov 17, 2008 1:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think the Cubs off-season will start to come together more clearly
once the Dempster domino falls.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 17, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There isn't going to be much movement by the Cubs
Bringing back Ryan Dempster is the biggest mission Jim Hendry has mapped out for himself. He’s already added one bullpen arm and will likely try to add another. Beyond that it’s a matter of finding a left-handed hitting outfielder and probably calling it a winter.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 17, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You and I only disagree on one potential move
- whether the Cubs are going to try and add a lead-off hitter or not – beyond that, all I’m saying is that the direction the Cubs go in should become clearer once Hendry knows what his $$$ commitment is to Dempster (or isn’t should Demp sign elsewhere).
What will be real interesting to see is if Jim hangs around on Peavy after a potential Demp signing. Towers could provide some entertaining interviews if the Braves are out and the Cubs sign Dempster.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 17, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Sure, I would like a new leadoff option acquired. Do I see it happening? Absolutely positively no. Hendry doesn’t view the need, plus the available dollars and trading chips simply aren’t there.
While it causes me indigestion to contemplate don’t be surprised if Alfonso Soriano is once again leadoff hitter in 2009. Unfortunately, Lou Piniella has a special set of rules and expectations when it comes to the $136 million bust. Listen to Lou carefully and you hear a man who doesn’t sound like he wants to upset the apple cart in terms of Soriano batting leadoff.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 17, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By your calculations, the dollars are there.
If you think the Cubs have the cash to get a LH slugger like Ibanez, then Jim can choose to spend his cash on Furcal and trade to get a cheaper LH OF in Hermida/Kubel/Scott.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 17, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I should have added I am of the firm opinion Jake Peavy to the Cubs is completely dead
I think Hendry is going to gulp hard and sign Ryan Dempster to what he demands. Then I think he will actually try to shed a couple of salaries before going after a left-handed hitter. Why? Because he doesn’t have much flexibility this offseason and Dempster is going to gobble up more than he was prepared to dish out.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 17, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right about Demp gobbling up Hendry's Thanksgiving spending spree cash.
But Peavy to the Cubs isn’t dead now that the Braves are out. Peavy could veto any trade and this could end up just like the Johan trade did, or worse for the Padres, like the Abreu trade. Peavy only makes 2 M more than Marquis in 2009 so, cash isn’t going to preclude this from happening.
The problem with Jim shedding salaries is that he’s going to have to wait till more FAs sign to do that and then there’s less FAs to get. We’ll see how he proceeds. Without having given any #s out, he could risk signing who he wants and then trying to unload his salaries.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 17, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think Jake Peavy is headed to the Yankees
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 17, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Johan was going to the Yankees
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 17, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For those scoring at home...
Here are my wild ass predictions / guesses / whatever you want to call them…
Jake Peavy – Yankees
CC Sabathia – Yankees
AJ Burnett – Mets
Derek Lowe – Red Sox
Ryan Dempster – Cubs
Ben Sheets – Astros
Oliver Perez – Mets
Randy Wolf – Astros
Mike Mussina – Orioles
Brad Penny – Brewers
Andy Pettitte – retirement
Jon Garland – Dodgers
Javy Vazquez – Mets
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 17, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't imagine why the Orioles would spend big bux on Mussina ...
… just for old times’ sake.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 17, 2008 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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