Report: Cubs close to resigning Dempster
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 10:13 AM CST
490 comments
Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports is reporting that the Cubs are reportedly very close to resigning Dempster to a four year contract. The link can be found here:
This makes me somewhat happy about the current state of the Cubs. This justifies the dumping of Kerry Wood in a sense. If we were unable to resign him, well I wouldn't have been the only one angry..
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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4/52
is an awful lot for a 31 year old with one very good season.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Nov 18, 2008 10:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but he is good for the club, and considering what Marquis got a couple of years ago....
Also, maybe he gave us a hometown discount?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Nov 18, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also on ESPN1000 Chicago just now
during the 10:20 Sportscentre update, through Bruuuuuuuuce Levine…
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Nov 18, 2008 10:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like 4/52 is right
Sounds a bit much and year too long but meh, what are ya gonna do?
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Nov 18, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel.
Look, Demp wasn’t going to take less than four years and the dollar amount is simply what the market is demanding. Will Ryan go on to disappoint us? Maybe. Then again, his pitching repetoire aside, he’s always struck me as a very smart, focused, honest individual. So I think there’s a good chance that he’ll stay in shape and find ways to adjust as he gets older. And, yes, my glass is half full.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Also this is being reported in Texas where they really want him got an email from my friend in Dallas.
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 10:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, that seals the deal.
Ryan Dempster is a Cub!
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the ticket!
Great job ace!, hell of a scoop.
by StevenABQ on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
4 years, $52 million is insane for Ryan Dempster
I just hope you people remember your strong endorsement for this deal with Ryan Dempster is just as likely to go something like 9-14 with a 4.75 ERA next season. Stupid, stupid, stupid move.
The added pisser is that this big dollar deal shall significantly impinge on the rest of Hendry’s offseason objectives unless he is able to shave a few other salaries. You can bet the ranch Jim Hendry is going to now be shopping in a cheaper bin for the left-handed hitter on his shopping list.
Kevin Gregg, Ryan Dempster and a reasonably priced left-handed hitter should be the end of Hendry’s offseason additions. Other than moving a couple of spare pieces out.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
I don’t care how good of a clubhouse guy Dempster is, if this deal is $13 per year for 4 years, it is too much.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Will you admit
Will you just admit you were wrong about him going into 2008?
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, so before, you said
Nov 15, 2008 11:19 PM CST
“But if the bidding is going to get north of 4 years and $50 million for Ryan Dempster???? Well then I’m sorry I think the Cubs have to think very seriously about taking a pass and looking at other options.”
Is $52 million over four years REALLY that much different than $50 million over four years?
Essentially, the Cubs hit your (personal, unsubstantiated) limit with Demp, and have hopefully locked up arguably their most consistent, best pitcher of the 97-win 2008 season… and you’re moving the goal posts.
Would $40 million have been too much?
$30 million?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO...
… its not just the dollars, its the length of the deal. But moreso, its this deal on top of a ton of dollars guarenteed to a few guys by the Cubs. People need to understand that unless the new owner is willing to expand the budget well beyond $150M the Cubs are not going to be able to make many moves.
by dmlichte on Nov 18, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think
that somehow, other dollars will be moved. Hopefully Marquis, for example. And there’s been a lot of discussion about expanding the budget…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the budget...
… will be expanded slightly. Crane Kenney has said that. He and Hendry have said not to expect a major acquisition. The budget has to be expanded, though, if only to be able to field a team. The contracts to almost every player on the Cubs are backloaded and now they start to pay the piper.
As for guys being moved, I agree that Marquis may be moved. Beyond that, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, and others aren’t going anywhere.
by dmlichte on Nov 18, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry has almost assured...
…the new owner will need to get the payroll north of 150 mil if all needs are going to be addressed with first rate players. I do like Dempster’s attitude and the way he busted his ass this offseason to get in top notch shape and I don’t think he will lax in this area. What bothers me a bit about the deal is the years and not the money, as 4 years is a significant committment to a 31 year old with only one real good year on his resume. With that said, you have to keep the pitching staff strong and unless Dempster just falls apart, this should help.
With Zell saying they are pushing to sell the club very quickly, you may get a glimpse into what the new owner will spend, because I am sure Kenney is going to have to run expenditures by the prospective new owner as a courtesy.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 18, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Screw you mambochicken
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oooh, a new word.
Now, how about backing up your inane statements, Mike?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck you mambochicken
You’re a defective human being. You don’t know jack scratch about this team and have made it your life sport to have horseshit response to every single one of my posts.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is really inappropriate...
You may vehemently disagree with him, but please try to be remotely civil. I think you’re way out of line here.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've clearly got some rage issues, dude.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you know
you could just say “I’ve changed my mind, he’s not even worth 4/50” and at least that would be a reasonable statement.
You could say “wow, I’ve read articles that say that the Yanks aren’t really going after Peavy, but I still don’t think the Cubs have what it takes to get him in a trade”.
You could say “I was wrong”.
Almost all of the rest of us here have said something like that. I used to think that Ronny Cedeno was a terrible player, and I thought that Dome was the coming hurricane that would push the Cubs over the edge to the post season and beyond. But consistently, you’ve spouted off a bunch of bull about:
Soriano
Pie
Wood
Dempster
Peavy
Hell, you were even wrong about how much it would take to get Harden on the Cubs, and then, he wasn’t the ace you insisted he was!
And all the while, practically fellating other teams managers and players, and being an utter pr!ck to other Cubs fans.
Get help. And when you’re done, come back and actually defend what you say, rather than simply repeating it over and over again, and never acknowledging that you are consistently and continually wrong.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck you mambochicken
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...still doesn't get it
Flagged. I care for the constant, dissenting opinion, but not for stuff like this.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fuk-U-Meter on Nov 18, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's like he's daring Al to ban him.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Al can ban me
I have made my position clear. This drewish mambochicken hangs around here for the singular purpose to flame my posts. If Al wants to ban me, then fine.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Flaming?
I hardly call that flaming.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fuk-U-Meter on Nov 18, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, compared to MDBINU deliberately inciting and insulting people
Obviously drewish doesn’t like MDBINU, but I’ve never seen him do anything other than make relatively reasonable replies to him.
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Allow me to expand your vocabulary a bit...
ignore |igˈnôr|
verb [ trans. ]
refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally : he ignored her outraged question. See note at neglect .
• fail to consider (something significant) : direct satellite broadcasting ignores national boundaries.
• Law (of a grand jury) reject (an indictment) as groundless.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm waiting for Al to take the dare.
Impatiently waiting, that is….
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a dare
I have made my position on drewish mambochicken perfectly clear for months.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your position is besides the point.
Your language is the dare.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is simple solution that heretofore has been ignored
The drewish mambochicken can cease responding to my posts. I ceased responding to him months ago. But that hasn’t stopped the whiny Woody Allen clone. Nope. He keeps popping up and responding to my stuff like a bad hemmoroid.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you try being civil for a change. It's called being human...
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've done one better....I've ignored him
But the results on his end continue to be the same.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You just don't like being called on your assertions...
and you lack the civil discourse to discuss issues in a rational manner. You are an easy target.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could you please explain
how replying “F$$$ you mambochicken” can be termed “ignoring” him?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that
He’s actually replied that to others, including me, that weren’t even responding to him.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
I’m gonna be insulted if this epithet isn’t an exclusive…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, that's right.
he thinks you’re my sock-puppet. Or vice-versa.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not so much me
The one that has the Nats “Racing Teddy Roosevelt” for the avatar — I forget who that is.
Actually, if he thinks you and I are one and the same, he’s really whacked, because I’ve actually quasi-defended him to you on occasion. Sometimes I wonder why . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call what you're doing "ignoring" him
I would call it “having a meltdown”.
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think saying
F-you mambochicken is exactly “ignoring”. Unless my definition is somehow as defective as your logic.
by storkysm on Nov 18, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bad hemmorhoid?
do you really need that adjective in there? Thanks, though, for the “cleaned up” response…many of us at work or should be working
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fuk-U-Meter on Nov 18, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but you haven't.
And I’ll respond to the posts I want to, in a reasonable and unprofane manner.
You don’t get to try to control my behavior, Mike. You have to control yours.
I still want to know if you really think there’s a substantive difference between 4 years at $50mill, which you seemed to think was ok on Nov 15, 2008 11:19 PM CST, and 4 years at $52mill, which you are railing against now.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The guaranteed money will probably be $50 mil. or below...
I’m willing to bet that there are a ton of incentives in it that take it up over $50 million to close to $52 million.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You guys
all sound like a bunch of damn babies, grow the fuck up.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 18, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ladies and Gentlemen
The voice of maturity. “Grow the fuck up”
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
'rec'd haha
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 19, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eh?
I sound like a baby for wanting him to explain his seeming contradiction?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
you do, and he is right to an extent. Every time he posts, you come by with a comment that totally goes against what he says, no matter what it is. And I think you do it just to piss him off.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 18, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
You are right to an extent, and I have commented to Drew on that. I do think sometimes he reacts to the poster more than the post when it’s BM.
However, I do agree with Drew to an extent, too. Blue Mike rarely, if ever, defends his assertions when he’s called on them.
And, the tone of your post wasn’t going to calm anyone down.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my first post
wasn’t meant to calm anyone down, i was simply commenting to show them how stupid they sound fighting all the time.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 18, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor choice of words on my part
You weren’t likely to make your point that way . . . and it seems you didn’t.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
obviously lol
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 18, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
utterly untrue.
First of all, I let tons of BM posts go by, because they’re so often repetitive. But it wasn’t ten days ago that he was asserting that 4/50 was the boundary for Demp; I think it’s reasonable to ask him why somehow 4/52 is the end of the world.
Secondly, he’s not very nice to the people around him. That ticks me off. But I work hard to not call him names, and to ask him questions that are reasonable for him to answer.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You say he never admits when he is wrong, yet you can’t admit that you wait for him to post something that you can try to tear apart. Come on man, its pretty clear.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 18, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't admit it
because I can’t admit something that isn’t true.
I post plenty that isn’t BM related, and I post plenty that is. He’s prolific, and he says controversial things. But by no means do I stalk or chase him, nor do I wait for him to post. I’d be perfectly happy for him to leave, and perfectly happy for him to stay. I do wish he’d answer questions. Blogs like this depend on conversation, not [expletive] mambochicken.
He sets the tone for responses.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I
never said you stalk him. I just said I think you take pleasure in tearing his posts apart. Then after you do, you ask questions that come off very condescending sometimes.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 18, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
I almost never mean to be.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So
I cant blame him for not responding to them all the time.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will
by tizzle on Nov 18, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's the fact that he NEVER responds...
that is the annoying thing. MDBNIU states things in a very condescending manner as if he knows all. Then, when he is wrong (which is frequent as is the case for EVERYONE on this board) he never is willing to discuss it.
Granted, I think drew takes it a bit far sometimes, but not to the degree to warrant the response MDBNIU gives.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're tired Drew
more tired than BM. He’s just stating his opinion, like most of us do. I agree with him, like many of us do, that 4/50 is too much for Demp.
All these flare-ups are caused by YOU…he’s only ever reacting to YOU starting it!
Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 18, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a bit overstated, don'tcha think?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FROM YOU, OKAY?!?
I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU!!!!
If you do a search on BlueMike’s posts, you will see that he frequently responds with profanity and derision to multiple people. He’s got a history here, and he never quite figures out how to make up the ground.
And I slept fine last night, I dunno why you think I’m tired.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WOuld you two shut up?
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Nov 18, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mmmmm
nope.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Parents who bait BM
Have kids who bait BM.
What do I win for getting the reference?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I got it, too.
I was just too busy shooting heroin to respond.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a Klondike Bar
just take this certificate and $2.50 down to your local 7-11.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're glib, Matt. You're glib.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait..."whiny Woody Allen clone"?
I’m not sure how I missed that the first time around. I’d like to hear an explanation.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm from New York.
Apparently, that’s what matters.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That probably explains it.
I’m almost afraid to go any deeper into his mind.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it
what’s this “mambochicken”?
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Nov 18, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that, I've no idea.
You’ll have to ask him. However, given his track record for actually answering questions, I would advise you to not hold your breath.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, I felt like I was missing something
Hey, BM, what’s this mambochicken thing?
Holding breath now…
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Nov 18, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
prepare
for CPR…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ah screw it
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Nov 18, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet your hiccups are gone, though, right?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
actually, now that you mention it
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I laughed at that, no clue what the heck that is
and man I did NOT intend for this thread to be like this haha
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its from a book
Sci fi — imagination meets reality kind of reference.
by StevenABQ on Nov 18, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mambochicken
Is another BCB poster (or former poster). Blue Mike thinks that’s one of at least two alter-egos for Drew.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
boy
was I off, I thought it was a weird reference coming from BM…who is pretty steeped between fantasy and reality most of the time…I guess I just assumed he was calling the kettle black.
by StevenABQ on Nov 18, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like he's gone silent
This is who our hero is referring to
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he's referring to one of these?
from the first chapter:
The goal was complete omnipotence: the power to remake humanity, earth, the universe at large…If the universe isn’t good enough for you, then remake it, from the ground up.
Sounds appropriate for BM.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Nov 18, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching is the king of his universe.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I LIKE it
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
boy this convo
got real skinny real fast
by Emelie on Nov 18, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And here, I thought there was going to be 400 posts on Dempster re-signing.
Silly me.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We needed another starter
Find me another starter with the potential to be even league-average for that kind of money.
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Marshall
for 13 million less, will likely be league average
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Factor in the opportunity cost there though
Moving Marshall into the rotation costs you more than just money – you also lose depth in your bullpen. Now we’d only have one left reliever and only one legit backup starter / swingman.
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that opportunity cost is not worth $13 million I'd argue
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could make a case for that.
But you’re also getting a marginal gain from Dempster – even if you expect his numbers to regress, which they will, he’s still a better pitcher than Marshall.
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say the marginal gain is not nearly worth the marginal cost...
which is why I think it’s a bad deal. I certainly hope I’m wrong.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's my whole argument
and for what you’re arguing is just ONE year
that same argument can be spread out over 4 years (the life of such contract) and we’re talking about spending $48-50 Million more on Dempster than Marshall. Given a reasonable assumption that Marshall would IMPROVE at age 25 and Dempster would DECLINE at age 32-35, I think the marginal gain gap narrows every year
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is Marshall can't go 180 innings
let alone 150.
And you have no idea how many Harden will go.
And Z and Lilly have been durable suspiciously too long.
Marshall would be good for most teams as a starter, but not for our rotation.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know Marshall can't go 180 innings?
Yes, I am aware he has never done so. But that doesn’t mean he couldn’t.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 18, 2008 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he might be able to
I’m more worried he cant keep his era under 5.00, marshall will get pounded in a regular role IMO
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 19, 2008 12:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's never a good idea to add more than 30 innings to a pitcher's workload from year to year
especially with guys who have injury problems.
Marshall may be able to go 180 some year. Not next year.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 19, 2008 6:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marshall was a reliever this past year...
so counting his innings isn’t really appropriate. We know fully well that their workload is much higher than the inning counts due to warming up and then not entering the game so often.
Further, relievers increase their workload by more than 30 innings whenever they become starters (see Ryan Dempster or John Smoltz, for example).
by SouthernCub on Nov 20, 2008 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
this had to be done. now go out and swing a deal for Peavy. the starting rotation would be SICK.
by DunstontoSandbergtoGrace on Nov 18, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And just last
night on CTL Phil Rogers said he didn’t think Dempster would be signed by anyone until later next month. Will be interesting to see if any of these reports are correct.
by sue369 on Nov 18, 2008 10:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Phil Rogers
My dogs water dish is more accurate than Rogers. But Rogers also said the other day he doesn’t think the door is closed all the way on Wood. So hope he’s half right.
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
when I found out about Woody, I was disconsolate. I couldn’t bring myself to even comment about it. I hope he comes back.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not saying I believe
anything said by Rogers. It was more about how many different things are being said about the same subject.
by sue369 on Nov 18, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If this is true...
We can lay to rest the Peavy rumors…One would think. I don’t see how they possibly give up the farm for him with Demp coming back. And I highly doubt they seriously pursue the BU now that they have Z, Lilly, Demp, Harden set.
by DMCub on Nov 18, 2008 10:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think it does
which is why Towers was pushing to get it done soon. Taking one of his best alternatives off the table weakens his hand.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy/Johnson/Dempster
I thought the Cubs were going to try and get 2 of the 3. Johnson and Peavy or Dempster.
The best part of Dempster over Peavy is being able to hold on to the trading chips for Peavy for another deal.
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But I think they would have to move Marquis in order to get either Peavy or RJ – either in a three team deal for Peavy – or in a trade somewhere else in order to sign Johnson.
by DMCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be surprised to see Marquis moved
and neither Johnson or Peavy acquired. That’s too much money in the rotation especially when you look at what Peavy’s salary jumps to next season.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me either
And quite frankly, I think that would be the prudent move. Keep our trade chips (we are already the low stack at the table) and let some of the young arms compete for the #5.
by DMCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Couldn’t agree with you all more. Move Marquis and let some of the younger guys battle for the #5 spot. Marquis money can be used to better our chances of getting a LH bat.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Nov 18, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that on one level
- however, if the market for Peavy is tilted in our favor as much as it appears sometimes, you have to trade for him, because our trade chips are never going to get anything that good if you keep them.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I've thought about Towers saying it might need to be a 4-team deal
I think Marquis’ contract plays into it – the Cubs need one team to get prospects and one more team to get salary relief.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too many year’s and too much money for a 1-year wonder.
Yep, he’s a great guy and everyone likes him. Blah, blah, blah. His regression back to what he really is will make this a bad deal. I do hope I am wrong, but I am not a fan of this. I’d rather have 2 years of Randy Johnson and Ben Sheets than 4 years of Dempster. And this ends the Cubs hopes to upgrade further. I hope this is no the end of the off-season, but it may very be.
by socalbob on Nov 18, 2008 10:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Regression"
Regression to the mean assumes that there is some magical “mean” that Dempster needs to regress to. Actually, he’s a changed pitcher with one or two new/better pitches, a new flakey hand movement during his stretch to confuse the batter, better exercise regiment, etc., etc. Pitchers and hitters adjust, and there might not be a static “mean” to regress to.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Nov 18, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's your position and I repsect that
I think he will pitch more like he did in previous years. I get the changes he made. I just don’t think it will be sustainable. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go 9-11 with a 4.29 ERA in 2009. Is that worth $13MM annually? That’s my point. I certainly would not expect him to be 17-6 with a 2.86 again. As I said, I hope I am wrong.
In my opinion, we will be viewing this signing like the D Lee contract. Some ridiculous number of BCB fans want to trade Lee today and thought his deal when he was a .330 46 HR guy was worth it. We’ll see.
by socalbob on Nov 18, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds very much like the sentiment about DeRo's signing...
“one year wonder”
“won’t repeat career year”
“regression to the mean”
“too many years”
“too much money”
How has DeRo’s deal worked out? Ted Lilly’s? Even Marquis has taken the ball and protected the bullpen from the back end of the rotation.
Given the state of the Cubs’ farm system (and the fact that they gave up their best pitching prospect in the Rich Harden deal), free agency is the only way to build a quality rotation — without which the Cubs won’t make the playoffs.
The market for SPs is what it is, and Hendry has no choice but to pay the going rate for someone (Demp, Unit, A.J., Lowe, CC). With Demp, Hendry knows his track record, his clubhouse presence, and his injury history intimately. Demp is younger that Lowe and Unit, less expensive than CC, and less injury-prone than A.J.
Personally, I would regard 4/$52 as a bargain in this SP market.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
not from me
De Ro wasn’t held in that regard by me. I thought his versatility, his age, and athletic background made the deal very reasonable. I liked the fact he worked with Jaramillo during his Rangers tenure as well. I even advocated last off-season moving him back to SS if they acquired Roberts because I have faith in him—he’s a very fine athlete. I understand what you are saying as there were sentiments in line with your post.
I think the dollars on Dempster could be spent more wisley. I hope I am wrong.
by socalbob on Nov 18, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I consider the Demp signing (if it happens) as wise.
Watching the Braves this year was a huge lesson in the impossibility of piecing together a starting rotation on the fly.
I would much rather have guys who can take the ball every fifth day, even if their ERA is half a run higher than average. The Cubs led the league in runs scored last season; they just need pitchers who will give them innings and keep them in the game consistently.
Demp, Lilly, and Marquis have all shown that durability. Z was durable until last year, and his injury was only tendonitis. That means we only have Harden to worry about, and Sean Marshall can “buddy up” with him.
I would hate to let Demp walk, bring in A.J. (at higher dollars), trade Marquis to make salary room, then have Marshall as my #5 and Donald Veal covering for both Harden and A.J.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
point understood
and I believe your rationale is how Hendry will be able to move Marquis. He takes the ball every 5th day and can give the pen some much needed rest. I really hope this isn’t one of those contracts that handcuffs Hendry a year or two from now. If we can’t re-sign Harden next year because of this contract, then I would have an issue with it—just saying.
by socalbob on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably the answer to your question lies in the details...
If it is $13M each year for four years, he will be tradable (barring injury) during the last half. If it is severely backloaded (i.e., $7M, $9M, $15M, $21M) it will be an albatross.
And since Hendry is usually in the mood, there will probably be a NTC to muck things up as well.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what happened to Gaudin?
isn’t he still on the team?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rumor has it that Lou was not very happy with Gaudin
over his dumpster incident and cover-up. I’m not sure if he will be back or not, but I’m not counting on it for now.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha ... you're not sure if he will be "back."
I see what you did there.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Well, Lou is unhappy with all SORTS of things for a team he says only needs some tweaks…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow I missed this...
Was he drunk?
by dr stabbingworth on Nov 18, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I"d have to think so
A professional athlete that falls off a curb and hits a dumpster? Late at night?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure whether he ever actually admitted it...
…but he was walking down a Chicago street late at night with a bunch of friends and fell into a dumpster. So…yes.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll sec that rec.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I spec’d that my rec would get a sec rec in just a sec.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well stated
I do expect somewhat of a regression by Demp, but you make a good point — what viable alternative is there?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great news.
I’m going to remember my endorsement of this deal, especially when Demp goes something like 14-8, with an ERA in the mid 3’s. Then I’ll remember the clowns who decried this signing, stating that the going rate for a pitcher of Demp’s caliber was simply too much- and we should weaken the rotation and pitching staff by letting him walk.
Blue, you’ll be unhappy to know that this signing for less than 5 years, and less than 60 million will allow Hendry to sign Woody back to a one or two year deal. The financial constraints are not as tight as you seem to believe. Let’s see what happens on the trade front now…
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 10:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
as long as you're around
in 2010-2012 when he’s posting mid 4 ERA’s with a 1.40 WHIP and making $13 million a year to be a #4 starter
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By then...
- starters will be making $25 million.
So quitcherbitchin
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my God! I agree with my adversary Worf...
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with both of you! :-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Nov 18, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know...
KHAN!!!!!!!!!
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is like...
Hulk Hogan and the Iron Shiek teaming up!
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's kick some bass!
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, I thought Worf was MY adversary!
"The object of a ball game for the fan is not to be entertained. It is to win." - Max Lapides
by CaliCub on Nov 18, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
$25 million?
where are you coming up with this figure?
yeah maybe THE BEST SP in all of baseball, but do you really think the average salary for mid-rotation starters is going to be $25 million?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Inflation, my boy!
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
give me your inflation calculation
that reaches 100% in 3 years, while the rest of the world is in a deflationary environment
i’d love to see that one
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
MLB
is not like the rest of the world.
Sabathia already is getting 23.3 million as AN OPENING OFFER!
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
from one team
that others are saying is way overbidding AND….
I’ve seen CC Sabathia’s track record, and Ryan Dempster is no CC Sabathia
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, but Sabathia
is getting that as an opener. In four years, that will be the standard for borderline #1-solid #2.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're using the best SP
to hit the FA market in years and using him as your standard for #2’s???
really?
Why not use the guys that are coming off of pitching like 2’s, not Cy Youngs.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gil Meche
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Nov 18, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the support
Meche got 11 million a year two years ago as a #3-4
Dempster is reportedly getting 13 a year as a #2
doesn’t sound like much inflation to me
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No prob.
It was that whole group…
Zito and Schmidt got HUGE deals, Lilly, Meche, etc…got more reasonable deals that were in line with the market. I expect that to continue. A Meche/Lohse/Lilly guy might get 13 mil in 2012 rather than 11.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Nov 18, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what i suspect as well
i dont think inflation is revamping the game, much like many thought it would the Manny/ARod offseason
meanwhile he was one of only a handful of players making 20+ million, that deal was never a bargain. He had to perform at a very high level every year to earn that deal
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you not hearing the words that are coming out of my mouth?
IN FOUR YEARS, THE SALARY SCALE WILL BE DIFFERENT!!!!!
I’m about to revoke your talking priviledges!
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
read above on Meche
2 years difference and the price has risen $2 million dollars for a pitcher coming off a significantly better season
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
23 million per? Gulp!
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
deflationary
sounds gross but isn’t
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fuk-U-Meter on Nov 18, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is "quitcherbitchin" the new "shut up"?
If so, I like it. In fact, I suggested naming a band that once, except I think I spelled it “Kwitcherbitchin.”
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually thinking of something more polite.
“Sir, your talking priviledges have been suspended!”
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or perhaps:
“I’m taking away the talking stick!”
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shuchermouf...?
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Nov 18, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are all pretty good
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm talkin' bout Shaft
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn right.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That Shaft is a mean ....
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
shut your mouth
sorry, had to be done
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Nov 18, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's how it started here....
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the line is -
They say that cat Shaft is a bad mother…..shut your mouth. But I’m talking about Shaft.
He’s a complicated man and no one understands him but his woman….John Shaft!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the one I'm talking about
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isaac Hayes aka Jerome McElroy aka Chef
RIP
"The object of a ball game for the fan is not to be entertained. It is to win." - Max Lapides
by CaliCub on Nov 18, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chef
Now children, playing football is just like making love to a beautiful woman.
I will miss that voice.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 19, 2008 12:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The king of Hot Buttered Soul will be missed.
RIP Black Moses
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 19, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Marquis?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you said he wouldn't get an offer for 4/52...
I’m not confident he’ll get the ERA in the mid-3s (the w/l is irrelevant for discussion as it is team-based). I expect him to be a low-to-mid-4s ERA guy. I’ll be very happy to be wrong though.
As for financial constraints, a 4/52 is worse than a 5/60 in terms of re-signing Wood. Would would be on a short-term deal, so it’s the per-year dollars which would be relevant (and 4/52 is more per year than 5/60). Wood is VERY unlikely to return.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow...
… this is mature. The funny thing is that all those people who were head over heals for the signings of guys like Soriano and Marquis never come back to give credit to those of us who were against the signings.
by dmlichte on Nov 18, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no kidding....
we’ve been talking about the financial constraints we’d likely run up against for two years now, then when the organization admits its tight with money and can’t re-sign a key cog like Wood, everyone goes nuts
those of us that warned this would happen get forgotten….
such is the way things work today where feedback is graded as immediate and people don’t think longer-term than the next season
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wait...
I thought Woody wasn’t resigned because Lou didn’t want him, not because of financial issues. Woody would have taken a one year deal for a few million (don’t remember the exact number), I thought.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are these people
these people who aren’t giving you credit for being right on the internet about one thing 2-3 years ago
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ungrateful bastids.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh internet arguments....
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Nov 18, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hi Em!
Haven’t seen you around much lately.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lurking, mostly
and enjoying the postulating…
by Emelie on Nov 19, 2008 2:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're missing the damn point
I don’t need nor want any credit. I’ve been right about more than one thing and I’ve been wrong about more than one thing. But I love the “I’m going to come back and rub it in your face” crap when we all know damn well that this same type of person is going to remain amazingly silent on the issue if a.) Dempster regresses to his career averages or b.) the Cubs suddenly have no money to make improvements.
I am fully willing to acknowledge that Dempster may prove to earn this contract, but there is a real basis for the other side of the coin on this one and thats not being readily acknowledged.
by dmlichte on Nov 18, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's fair.
Especially when those certain people in question are wrong so often and fail to acknowledge any counterpoints people have.
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not a fan
way too much money and years for a guy with practically zero track record
I like Ryan, I appreciate a tremendous career season and I appreciate the antics he brings. Seems like a genuinely good character
just wish he made his big bucks somewhere else and we collected draft picks and signed someone with more certainty attached to their track record
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm so-so.
I’d be more against this if I didn’t have Kyle Lohse’s signing fresh in my memory.
On the other hand, if we find out Hendry COULD have gotten Peavy but didn’t because he preferred Dempster, then I’ll be a bit more disappointed.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good move!
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Nov 18, 2008 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Demp
In a way, I am glad he is resigning. I like Dempster and like having him on this team. However, I do not like the numbers on the contract. Dempster better have another good season or two because if he doesn’t, he may be boo’d out of Wrigley before this contract is over. Maybe not though… but I do fear some high ERA’s.
by TheHawkRules on Nov 18, 2008 10:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
well...
his career ERA is 4.55
so start with the expectation that he’ll likely be around that range for the next 4 years
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me likes this move... A lot
Dempster was really really really good in all but two games last year (sox @ the Cell and Dodgers) THere is no reason to think that he wont continue his workout regimen that has kept him in tip top shape that made him such an effective pitcher…
I think we only really need that LH bat now and maybe thew Big Unit if we can move Marquids. But i am happy.. Our rotation was a strong part of our club last year and it looks like it will stay that way.
Count me as an optimist
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Nov 18, 2008 10:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
there are plenty of reasons to think he won't continue to be in tip top shape
reportedly about 52 million reasons….
the guy NEVER worked this hard before and it happened to come in a contract season, so why are we all assuming he’s going to keep working this hard when he didn’t for his other 9 years in the bigs
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, this is maybe way off...
But MAYBE he LIKED being a top-tier pitcher an pitching in the all-star game…I mean, I’m sure some guys enjoy the success and that is why they are willing to put in the work…Sounds CRAZY though, I know…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Nov 18, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he had success before
he went to the All Star game, why didn’t he work hard then?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was much younger then.
Growing up, getting married, having kids and, yes, getting a taste of what it’s like to be an elite pitcher…these things can mature a person.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i suppose
but aren’t we going on a whole lot of “faith” and a lot less of what’s been produced in the past?
isn’t that kind of a recipe for disaster?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we as fans usually have little more to go on than faith (and perhaps statistics).
I would guess that Jim Hendry and Lou have been able to glean a lot more about Demp’s attitude and willingness to stay in shape from interacting with him. FWIW, I can definitely see the logic in letting Demp walk for the draft picks and looking for more creative ways to fill out the rotation, but I don’t think Jimbo ever seriously considered doing that. To be honest, I’m just happy he apparently has kept the contract length under five years.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year
is the past too. And last year, he REALLY produced.
Look at Geo Soto. Last year, he kicked butt. Four years ago, he was projected as a so-so player. And this year, he’s NL ROY.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're comparing
a developing player/prospect to an established major league player with 9 years of major league data to evaluate
its not apples to apples
for the most part veteran players don’t have HUGE improvements that then are maintained, especially past the age of 30. We’re paying him as if we expect him to do exactly what he did last year for the next four, and i don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation (its based off of throwing 9 years of data out the window and focusing on just one)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I expect him to do exactly what he did last year.
But I do expect him to be closer to that than previously. He’s remade himself as a starting pitcher. I’m not sure you can use his closing years as that good of a comparison, and he doesn’t pitch anything like he did back when he was a starter the first time.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he would certainly
be an exception to the rule then
most players don’t come close to “re-inventing themselves” and becoming completely different levels of players at age 31
some do it for a season, but they usually revert to the previous (extended) set of data
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok.
Well, we’ll see, right?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah we will
and i hope i’m wrong….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're wrong too.
:D I love baseball…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately
if i am right, no one will care. we’ll just bitch about how to correct it
same thing has happened with Marquis and Soriano as DML noted above.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
I don’t think that Soriano is the disaster that other people do. And I’ve come around on Marquis some. He did well in the second half.
I do think that the back-loaded contracts are a bad situation for us to be in, but when you build a team to WIN NOW…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Built to win now
You’re right – therein lies the problem. To those against the deal, there are valid reasons to feel that way. But the way that the team is constituted, not to mention Hendry wanting to keep his job, they need to stay competitive and avoid a rebuilding year.
So, without a viable in-house candidate to step up in 2009, this signing is probably necessary.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't disagree
with needing to sign someone from FA, because we’re built to win now.
I disagree with who the choice was. I believe there’s more certainty in Lowe’s production for next year than Dempsters AND i believe there’s less long-term risk is signing someone like Johnson
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A reasonable argument
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And signing
a Lowe, Burnett, RJ, Penny, Sheets is still a significant gamble in itself. Basically there are only a few “safe bets” when it comes to signing a pitcher (and I am not saying you are advocating signing any of the aforementioned).
So, I say you have to go on a combination of “faith” and what has been produced in the past…and for the record – I do think we are paying too much for Dempster, but I also think we will be better off than signing one of the above, or trading for Peavy.
by DMCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe
has an established track record of his performance that is in a tight range. It’s reasonable to expect him to perform close to what he’s done the last 3 years.
Dempster’s range is MASSIVE, the possible outcomes here are vast and I think we just saw the high end this past season.
I’d much rather have had Lowe or RJ (the benefits of RJ being its a 1 year deal and doesn’t tie up future finances to a team already struggling to meet current financial demands)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget
Getting hammered at Guthrie’s w/ the locals!
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Nov 18, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
isn't it just possible
that he’s changed? In a year, he went from being a worrisome closer to being a beloved starting pitcher. That’s a big deal. I can’t imagine he wants to stop being that guy.
I’m totally different from the way I was four years ago. It does happen.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its possible
but as i just wrote above do you want us making decisions based on faith rather than previous track record
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I just don't understand
why his previous track record doesn’t include last year.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It does...
it’s just not limited to ONLY last year, which is what the ardent supporters seem to be suggesting.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it does
and his Career ERA, INCLUDING LAST YEAR, is now 4.55
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No need to
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
4/52
This is the going rate for pitching right now in this free agent market. If Hendry doesn’t sign Dempster to this deal and sticks to the 4/50 principal that some on this site suggested, and Dempster would have signed elsewhere for 4/55, for sake of argument, we would have called for Hendry’s head.
These things have a way of working themselves out. There are good contracts and bad contracts. The Cubs aren’t the only team with both examples on the roster. I don’t think we can say, right now, that this is a good or bad deal for Dempster. Let’s revisit in a season or two.
IMHO I am glad Hendry was able to retain one of our own guys. I am willing to bet there is another team out there who would have gladly paid Dempster more. All I will say right now is, good news for a good guy. Congrats to Dempster and I hope that he continues his 2008 form.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Nov 18, 2008 11:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll think we'll find this to be a bit below market when the off-season's done.
Remeber the Aramis contract? It seemed so high. Not so much now. Compared to Kyle Lohse’s deal, I think this is a bit undermarket.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOOK at Ryan Dempster's career....
LOOK at each year of his career. Focus on the WHIP. Look at all those hits and walks. Ryan Dempster had a career year for the ages in 2008. I’m not saying he can’t remain a decent starting pitcher, but you don’t pay decent starting pitchers $52 friggin million !!!
The SMART move would have been to wave bye-bye and take chances with Sean Marshall augmented by a reclamation project. Either that or go for broke on a superior pitcher in Jake Peavy.
Hope you all are happy too, because the only move left in Jim Hendry’s offseason plan after paying this sort of money for Dempster is to acquire a “meh” type left handed hitter.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Reclamation project
We haven’t had much success with those lately (see Miller, Wade; Trachsel, Steve; Fox, Chad; heck, even Lieber, Jon).
by John Q Freejazz on Nov 18, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If choice is between $52 million on Dempster versus a few million on something like Carl Pavano and Sean Marshall???
Choice is easy then.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Pavano?
hah…no..
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You get the point though
I’m not saying Carl Pavano is the answer. But I am much more willing to take a flyer on somebody, or invest in a one year deal on Randy Johnson, then dish out $52 million on Dempster.
BCB, home of the insidious campaign of the clueless to "Dustyfy" an outstanding manager in Lou Piniella.
by MDBNIU on Nov 18, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if Duncan were out pitching coach
Rothschild and the Cub organization have created more reclamation projects than they have saved.
by dr stabbingworth on Nov 18, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Next to Hendry...
…if there is anyone in the Cub’s organization who should be labled “teflon”, it’s Rothschild.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 18, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What, you think you know more than Larry Rothschild with all his years of experience in the game?
Just kidding…
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm firmly convinced that Rothschild has dirt on someone very high up
in the Cub organization. The man is amazing. Nothing sticks to him. No matter how the pitching staff performs, old uncle Larry just keeps soldiering through.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 19, 2008 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"how the pitching staff performs"
The Cubs staff had the 5th best ERA in MLB (3rd in the NL), and they led MLB in strikeouts while being only 16th in walks. They also had the 3rd best WHIP in MLB, had the 4th best OBA-against and the 5th best SLG-against.
What part of those statistics screams out for the pitching coach’s head?
The Cubs’ pitching staff is one of the best in baseball. While the Cubs have great pitchers, the pitching coach deserves at least some credit.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 19, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't intimating that the pitching staff was bad, just that he has survived
through a couple of managers. That seems sort of unusual. Given the fact that Dusty left under so much acrimony, it’s odd that he was the only coach that remained. For the most part, the pitching has been good. The recent lack of success has usually come down to an inability to score runs.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 19, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Rothschild is very respected around baseball
(except on BCB) and he had worked with Lou previously. It makes perfect sense that he stayed, especially since Lou wasn’t coming directly from another job with a bunch of coaches in tow. (cf. Tony LaRussa)
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 19, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
those weren't reclamation projects
most of those were guys that were never really good to begin with
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Miller was but you are right on Trachsel
Trachsel was washed up when the Cubs signed him.
In this discussion of reclamation projects though there is one missing. Dempster himself was a reclamation project.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and we know the results of THAT one.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
blah blah blah
I know you have sticker shock, but 4 / 52 is
what you pay for a decent starting pitcher these days.
Kyle Lohse and his 4.72 career ERA just got $10M a year for the next 4 years. And that was considered a below-market deal.
Dempster will regress next year, there’s little doubt of that, but even accounting for that he’s a bargain at best and worth it at worst.
Hope you all are happy
Um, even if you disagree with this move, how is it our fault?
by Wreckard on Nov 18, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kyle Lohse
4/41.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only move -
Rosenthal says:
The return of Dempster would not necessarily make the Cubs less likely to trade for Padres right-hander Jake Peavy, sign free-agent lefty Randy Johnson or pursue any other player.
Oh, and you’ll love this – he says the Cubs may soon enter the bidding for Furcal.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly, I don't see how this is feasible...
unless one of two things is the case:
(a) Hendry is throwing caution (and salary) to the wind
(b) Hendry expects to be able to trade multiple expensive players (Fukudome, Marquis, Harden, etc)
Otherwise, I can’t see how Hendry could pull such a thing off.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First - Hendry has not told us just how much money he has to spend.
Second, both Peavy and Johnson are not going to be that much more expensive than the pitchers they could replace (and in some cases they are less expensive).
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing
If anyone can take Kerry’s place off the field and in the clubhouse it’s Ryan.
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 11:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I believe demp is worth the money...
for the first two years….I worry about years 3 and 4….but with how the pitching market is these days I think its a good deal.
by cubsmania on Nov 18, 2008 11:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Also
If anyone can be counted on to keep up the physical routine Ryan started last off season I think Dempster is it.
I am even more confident in him in this manner than Kerry.
I think Ryan if Kerry is gone takes Kerry’s place as the guy that playing for the Cubs means most to.
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 11:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad
To see him back, a little worried about him keeping pace though. But if he does become one of those guys who gets better in their 30’s, we’ve got a real bargain. Bottom line for me is that you rarely can sign a good pitcher for less than 3 or 4 years, and I am sure he could have gotten more elsewhere. We weren’t going to get anyone comparable on a 2 year deal, and even if we did, those 2 years would almost certainly have been more expensive per. Good price for a known quantity, with a decent chance of dropoff the last year or two. But we could always have him close again, right? :)
by JodyDavis on Nov 18, 2008 11:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
An aside
I think that when Mark DeRosa makes a diving catch, they should play : SAAAAAAVED BY ZEEEEEE-ROOOOO" and everyone can change the words to say “SAAAAAVED BY D-RO!”
Try getting that out of your head now.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fuk-U-Meter on Nov 18, 2008 11:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You monster!
Now I have The Fixx on The Brain. You should definitely pass that idea along to Wrigley Field organist Gary Pressy, however.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In the name of everything that is sacred....
Please don’t. That commercial is like nails on a chalkboard….I believe I read somewhere that the lead singer of The Fixx, even despite the royalties he receives, is annoyed. How I wish I had TiVo….
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Nov 18, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They completely
ruined a good song once again. If I was Cy Curnin, I would be thoroughly pissed off.
by jbertram on Nov 18, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, this is the worst commercial ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Mi0Bw75GI&fmt=18
oh, it may not be suitable for minors
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Nov 18, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
That is so wrong…on so many levels.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now THAT is funny
and worth signing up for YouTube to gain access.
by Emelie on Nov 18, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the same people
wanting demp signed for this kinda money will be the same people complaining hendry spends too much money
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 18, 2008 11:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
This was a necessary evil
At least Im sure thats what Jimbo talked himself into, if its 4/52, I dont know that we couldve gotten another top FA pitcher for 13M annually. So I think Lowe wouldve been a great signing, but he would likely cost at least 15M…..so its not ideal, but its what we’re left with given the ownership fiasco.
One positive, this might make the Cubs more appealing to Peavy.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Nov 18, 2008 11:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
the extra $2 million on Lowe
would come with more certainty of his performance though, and we could’ve saved that 2 million by not trading for Gregg…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Youre preaching to the choir
But thats not the reality of the situation unfortunately…..I cringe at what this team will be like in 2012 or so, especially if Buds Boys end up running it.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Nov 18, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never saw Lowe as an option
Reports always were staying in California or returning to New England. I see no reason to expect differently. The Gregg deal didn’t end the Cubs chances for Lowe.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
is it still possible
Gregg might be flipped?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
He fits in nicely whether Wood is signed back or not. He won’t be the closer, of course Marmol will be, but what if he fails, and who is going to take the ball in the 7th & 8th to get to Marmol?
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa
is the back up for everything. Let the man pitch! End the tyranny of the infield! :P
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't see both Peavy and Dempster unless Harden goes to the Pads
Look at the salaries. That will be a $60 Million dollar rotation. If they sign Dempster, I suspect Marquis might be gone and maybe the 5th spot is Marshall or a reclamation project.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except the Lowe rumors have always been California or Boston/NYY
All things being equal, I never saw Lowe as a real option.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ding ding ding
Harden gives Towers a pitcher who he can sell to the community and save face. This gets done after the Dec 1 arbitration date.
by socalbob on Nov 18, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy can come easily
if we send off Ted Lilly in a three-way trade.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would guess Hendry is trying to deal Marquis
for a lefty reliever, thereby moving Marshall into the rotation.
OTOH, there are still several lefties available as free agents. If they could get Joe Beimel for less than they paid Howry, they should probably do it.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on Nov 18, 2008 11:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just got a confirmed Twitter! Demp agrees to four year deal, Cubs still might pursue more starting pitching!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 11:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
JUST GOT TWITTERED ALSO!!!!
WOOO!
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The only question now is...
…who will win the “Dempster signs” fanpost race?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think the questions is
HOW backloaded is this deal
is Dempster going to make 51 million in 2012
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Not till December!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is...
…it’ll be about as backloaded as a gravel truck leaving the excavation pit on a job site.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I confirm that confirmation!
Just got the same message.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Twitter from Wittmeyer...
Can’t find a link yet.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Nov 18, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Post your cellphone number.
I’ll forward you the message.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Phone is in Punta Cana with the boss...
I’m on a land line. Went to twitter though & saw it. Thanks though Daver.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 18, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you can't click
on my cell phone…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
argh
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess this means
Phil Rogers doesn’t now what he is talking about. Who knew? ;-)
by sue369 on Nov 18, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's reasonable money, assuming its 4/52.
Probably not as big a steal as some people are thinking (pitcher salaries are inflated compared to position players), but I don’t think it’s an overpay. Dempster’s probably in the Ted Lilly range of pitchers right now, and getting paid pretty fairly for that.
by cwyers on Nov 18, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Running this down a little more thoroughly, projecting Dempster for a 4.08 ERA next season, he should be worth the following over the length of the contract:
$16
$13
$12
$10
Or $51 mil total. So likely an underpay to start the contract, and a bit of an overpay on the back end of the contract. These are rough figures, of course.
by cwyers on Nov 18, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
stop him!
he’s using facts! That’ll never work! :D
I think it’s reasonable to ask if Dempster in four years will be as good as Marquis is now, and if that’s acceptable. I just don’t see ow to project it, given Demp’s reinvention…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i have to say
CWyers knows more math/projection than I do, so I do trust his analysis and its refreshing to see he thinks we’ll make out fine on this
i hope he’s right!
my gut tells me the range of results for Dempster is much larger than most other FA pitchers and for that reason this could go very very wrong, with the upside of it being a slight bargain. To me, that range is a concern
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a fair assessment
and it’s always hard to do gut-vs-gut comparisons…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats assuming Demp
stays at 4.08 all 4 years right?
you’re not projecting ANY further decline each year?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all.
That’s assuming that Dempster is worth 3 wins above replacement in 2009, 2.5 in 2010, 2 (or league average) in 2011 and 1.5 in 2012. I’m also using a salary inflation rate of 10% per season.
by cwyers on Nov 18, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting
how many wins was he above replacement this year?
as i said above, i trust your math more than anyone else’s around here, so its good to see we could make out ok on this
do you agree with my assessment that the range of possible outcomes for Dempster is more than those for other pitchers, are your projections and assumptions taking into account STD DEV of previous performance?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Demp was 6.5 WAR in 2008.
There’s a bit less reliability for Demp, but a better median forecast, I think, adjusting for park.
by cwyers on Nov 18, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
that’s a pretty significant step back from ’08, which is what i expected, and he still makes out ok
it does sound like there’s more variability in the projection which concerns me, but all in all if Cwyers puts the numbers to it and they look OK, i’m a bit more at ease
thanks Cwyers
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Colin,
Do you have the WAR numbers on our entire rotation? Is this on a web site somewhere?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hand-compute those.
Dempster probably would show up a little better if I adjusted for park. The 2008 Baseball Databank got released a few days ago, and so one of my projects soon should be 2008 WAR figures for just about everybody. In the interim, I’d take Justin Inaz’s stats from jinaz-reds.blogspot.com and divide FIP-RAR by 10. That should get you pretty close.
by cwyers on Nov 18, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I gotta admit...
…I’m pretty surprised by this post as well. I figured the Grand Cadre of Sabermagicians would be united in its disapproval of this trade. I’m actually starting to feel a little optimism creep into my tattered Cubs soul.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have two equally wrong camps arguing here.
Oversimplifying, of course. One thinks that Dempster is an entirely new pitcher who is a real staff ace; one thinks that Dempster had an abberant year and is going to go right back to the suck. I don’t think either is realistic.
Dempster is probably a good mid-rotation piece at this point – solidly above average in the Ted Lilly mold. If your top-two guys are Z and Harden and your middle two guys are Lilly and Dempster you probably have a pretty good rotation (even better if you can replace Jason Marquis with, well, quite a lot of different pitchers.)
by cwyers on Nov 18, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And as you said...
… the contract Dempster is, apparently, about to sign, puts him just a little bit over Lilly in terms of dollars. That’s about where I’d place him, myself.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 18, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes a lot of sense.
Filling the middle of the rotation with Lillyesque pitchers would keep the Cubs’ starting pitching relatively strong. And, at the risk of stating the obvious, it would be very nice if Harden and Z could stay healthy enough to hold up their respective ends of the bargain next season. I’ll be surprised if Marquis is moved but, if he is, I’d like to see Marshall get his spot.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea I agree about Marshall getting a shot
Assuming he isnt traded, he has done nothing but do what was asked of him for the last 2 years and he’s done everything pretty well. I think he will improve if he goes into spring training this year focusing on starting and goes out there every 5th day.
Obvioulsy this would require us to trade Marquis but I dont think we would have much of a problem doing this after most of the SP are of the market.
by dlee25 on Nov 18, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree at one level
that the top four are good, but given Harden’s health status, I’d like to see one more high ceiling pitcher, a reclamation project, or a Randy Johnson type, in the rotation.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
little disapointed we signed him to that big of a deal but i am not going to judge it yet. I thought he was going to be horrible as a starter this year and i was horribly wrong so i will give him a chance
by Glacier on Nov 18, 2008 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
get Dunn//Abreu and Furcal and we are set
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
agreed
but where is the extra $25-$30MM annually coming from?
by socalbob on Nov 18, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bake sale?
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
by RynoHoF on Nov 18, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought
it was a “pass the hat” campaign. My bad.
by socalbob on Nov 18, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With $25-30 mil needed.
We’ll probably need to do both. :)
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
by RynoHoF on Nov 18, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cupcakes for everyone!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 18, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm.....
Cupcakes… is there any better foodstuff?
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
by RynoHoF on Nov 18, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Donuts kick cupcakes ass.
Not that I’d turn down a cupcake, mind you.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What would you turn down?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Klondike Bar.
they’re overrated.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aw, I like those.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, you can have mine
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What would you do for a Klondike Bar?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right now, anything. I'm starving.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you cluck like a chicken?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or Mambo?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now you're just being silly. There's no way I would
cluck like a mambo.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’ve got no good response to that. You win….
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what, in a carryon?
you can’t pack with a hammer! A hammer is made fer POUNDING…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Certain fruit pies.
Bran muffins.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bran muffins are good for you. You've got to
keep the chains moving.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, they are nature's broom and all that.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Corndogs..........
…….provide the perfect marriage of two food groups. Gotta be health conscious when eating, ya know.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
by tville on Nov 18, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Gonna Be...
…one or the other. Likely not both.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my thoughts on this
1) This is a safe move by Hendry. Had he waited, he might have had to overpay Dempster, Burnett, Lowe or someone else two months from now. He also might have found a bargain in the leftover bin. The Dempster deal isn’t a bargain, but it’s not ridiculous.
2) Dempster won’t repeat his 2008 success. I heard a stat on the radio that Dempster was among the league leaders in batters faced with the bases loaded. That’s really scary. My guess is some bad luck will find him next year. I predict 14 wins with higher ERA and WHIP.
3) Unless something really big happens, the Cubs will not get Peavy. Getting him would mean trading one of the starters NOT named Marquis (which is doubtful), in order to have enough money to acquire another bat or two. That’s probably OK — Peavy’s more expensive than Dempster, and the farm system would be barren after a Peavy trade. It’s also highly doubtful that Randy Johnson will be a Cub, unless he accepts a very low contract.
4) The Cubs probably have one big move left in them. To me, this was Hendry’s attempt to square things up early (read: know how much money he has) to sign a big bat. It also could be a move to know how many pieces he has left to trade for said bat. If I’m right, the Cubs can end talks for Peavy and figure that anyone from Cedeno to Pie is available to trade for offense — and not for the rotation.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Good point about "freeing up" our trade chips.
Last season, Hendry was paralyzed from making a lot of moves because he was saving all of his trade chips for Brian Roberts. Hopefully, he learned his lesson.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe that
Hendry was not sitting there all winter waiting on the Roberts deal. The reports were that the deal was dead in mid-winter. Cubs fans wouldn’t let it die though.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the question is ...
what was Hendry paralyzed from doing? I can’t think of anything else he could have been in on.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
There wasn’t much he wanted/needed to do after the Fukudome signing.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he could have spent more time trying to trade Marquis
But otherwise … ?
The only other player I remember being linked to the Cubs was Kaz Matsui, and I think he signed with Houston pretty early in the offseason.
My question going forward is whether the Cubs will go for a lefty power bat or a left speedster? I doubt they can go for both — unless one comes really cheap.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Doubt He Can...
…trade Marquis until later in the off season. There are too many other choices out there.
As for next steps, Hendry likely will look to continue his pursuit of landing Peavy, and getting that lefty bopper.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
again ...
Why would the Cubs need Dempster and Peavy?
I made this point a couple weeks ago: The Cubs won 97 games last year, and faded in the postseason. I see very little reason why a rotation of Z, Harden, Dempster, Lilly and Peavy would help in the playoffs when fifth starters are all but meaningless.
You can make the argument that one of the five could get hurt. But I would counter that the Cubs can’t afford to spend $60+plus million on five starters (and even more in the coming years) as an insurance policy when the team has said, repeatedly, that they need another bat. That bat likely won’t come cheap.
The Dempster signing all but assures that Peavy is not wearing blue pinstripes next year, IMO.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because
Pitching is King? If a dominant rotation helps you get to the playoffs, does an even more dominant one help you win there?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You still need to score runs
If the Cubs had unlimited financial resources, they might sign Dempster, trade for $63 million Peavy and sign Abreu/Dunn and Furcal.
But they DON’T have unlimited resources, so they have to pick and choose. Would adding Peavy (given the rest of the rotation that’s already in place) help more than signing a lefty power bat? I would be amazed if this ISN’T an either/or situation.
Keep in mind that, last week, the Cubs cut ties with a fan favorite citing financial reasons.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you have a point
Gordo maintains that the Cubs may still follow up with more pitchers, tho.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
more pitchers, maybe
But I just don’t see Peavy fitting payroll.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy Makes Less...
… than Marquis does in 2009…
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes ...
But he makes $63 million over the course of his contract and some reports have said he’d want his option (worth more than $20 million) if he’s traded.
Do we really need MORE backloaded contracts?
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are good backloaded contracts and bad ones.
The good ones underpay the first couple years and then when the loading comes, lo and behold, that looks like market value. The Lilly contract and the Peavy contract are good backloaded contracts. I’ll take as many of the good backloaders as I can.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They still need a lefty in the pen
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Marquis goes and is replaced by Marshall and/or a reclamation project. It may take some time for a Marquis deal. Need to see where the FA’s fall.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They Can Get A Lefty LOOGY...
… for less than $1M.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy Affeldt just signed for 2/$8M.
Ohman is likely to get the same. So did Damaso Marte.
$4M seems like the going rate unless you get lucky in the non-tender bin.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's the word on Neil Cotts?
Is it safe to assume the Cubs will go to arbitration with him? I didn’t think he was awful this past season, though his WHIP looks pretty bad and he did give up a lot hits.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Correction: Neal.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We won
97 games, but everyone is a year older, there have been no upgrades so far, we’ve lost our closer, and lots of guys had career years last year.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Nov 18, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right ...
And I think the Cubs will spend their money upgrading the offense — which tracks with Lou’s comments — rather than add a $63 million pitcher.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If You Have A Chance To Add...
… an ace for $63 or $85M, and you are the last of 1 or 2 teams to get him, you have to do what you can to get it done.
That doesn’t mean it gets done, but you gotta do it.
Other aces that are open to 29 ball clubs are looking at twice that pay.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, Sabathia
is looking at twice that. Not sure who else is.
I just think you and I disagree on this (and it’s nothing personal). I was a proponent of getting Peavy instead of Dempster. I just don’t think both will be Cubs next year given financial realities.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, You're Right...
… I guess my question better put is what other aces are out there that are as good as Peavy that one can get for less than 5 years at $85M?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
totally agree with you on that
It’s kinda why I was against signing Dempster, if Peavy was an option.
by elgato on Nov 18, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To move Zambrano to RF?
Not my idea, but someone posted it half-joking a few weeks ago and I like it.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Zambrano
I think if something ever happened to Z where he couldn’t pitch anymore but could still bat he would make a decent 4th outfielder/back up 1st baseman.
It's a boy. My new nephew William Oliver born 11/14/2008 256 am. Thank you to all who offered best wishes when I mentioned it a few times over this summer and fall.
That's not my nephew in the picture. Don't have one to upload yet.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I do too.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hit post too soon
More OF than 1B, though. He’d probably kill runners on pick-off throws.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that...
…but I could see him DHing in the AL.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's actually a pretty good athlete
He might be able to become a competent outfielder.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he does kinda remind me of Carlos Lee.
I just can’t see him playing center or right.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WillieMaysHayesGloves mentioned it
and then I got to thinking about it and became convinced we should play Z every day in RF. So we should get Peavy to replace Z in the rotation and move Koske to CF with Reed. Damn the money.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and then I think I went one better...
…and suggested the Cubs pick up Rick Ankiel. They could put him in center, Big Z in left and Jason Marquis in right, making an all-ex-pitcher outfield.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's certainly
out of the box thinking. :D
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Think about Ted Lilly and Carlos Zambrano in the same lineup
Any bench-clearing brawl that day and the Cubs have the advantage with those two already on the field . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
catchers beware!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not out of the box, that's completely out of the room!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That reminds me of Jules' line in Pulp Fiction
“…it’s not the same $%^&* sport”
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm the foot f**kin' master!
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I got my technique down and everything, I don't be ticklin' or nothin'.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He can't help that he's Samoan.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Tony Rocky Horror?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You ever give a guy a foot massage?
You know I’m kinda tired.
Guy’s got a weight problem. What’s a guy gonna do? (redacted)
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy only ups the rotation cost by 2 M next year if he replaces Marquis
and he decreases it if he replaces Zambrano or Lilly. Finances won’t be the thing that keeps us from acquiring Peavy.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 18, 2008 7:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
young SP
Tampa Bay is looking to trade either Jackson or Sonnanstein.We could get 1 for a few mid-range minors.Any thoughts on going after 1 of them after we sign Dempster
by Belfastcub on Nov 18, 2008 12:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Either one would probably cost more in prospects than Peavy.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 18, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays are only looking to trade them because they are loaded in young pitching
They are probably going to want young hitting. Other than Vitters, I’m not sure who would interest them especially for Sonnenstein who is probably the more expensive of the two.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't want Vitters either
especially since they got this guy named Evan at third? He’s kind of good from what I have heard
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True but I'm sure they would listen to Vitters
for something. They could move him to left field. Not sure how long Crawford will stay there.
by rlpete on Nov 18, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And wouldn't this depend on moving Marquis?
I mean, we’ve got:
1. Big Z
2. Harden
3. Demp
4. Lilly
5. Marquis
Something would have to give if Hendry wanted to add more starting pitching, unless he put one of those guys in the pen.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He signed Lieber, right?
… he went into ST last year with 6 or 7 starters, remember? Granted, they were <$2M pitchers…
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's true.
Maybe Randy Johnson is still a possibility. I’d just guess that Jimbo is going to turn his crosshairs on a lefty hitter now.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Doubt Randy Johnson Comes....
…. especially if he is looking for $8M.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's going into that again right now...
Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Harden, Marquis, Marshall, Hill, Gaudin. Of that list, we have five expensive guys already in the rotation, with three more cheap fill-ins.
Last year, he had three “proven” guys (Zambrano, Lilly, Hill) and four guys battling for two spots (Dempster, Marquis, Marshall, Lieber). Dempster, Marshall, and Lieber were low-cost guys who they could throw in the pen if necessary.
So we’re actually either more crowded than last year (if Hill returns) or just as crowded (if he doesn’t). And we’re more expensive. I think the signing of Dempster closes the door on Johnson and Peavy UNLESS the Cubs can trade Marquis.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Belfast, eh?
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
by JohnM on Nov 18, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this the first domino to fall?
It’ll be interesting to see if Dempster’s signing will prompt a sudden flurry of other signings. Maybe, maybe not….
"The object of a ball game for the fan is not to be entertained. It is to win." - Max Lapides
by CaliCub on Nov 18, 2008 1:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You Are Likely Right...
… it may set the tone for other teams.
The Yanks have two offers out – one for CC, one for Burnett. Lowe is likely next.
Hendry was always of the mindset that SP is what you go for first, then RP, then position players. He’s playing from that script now…
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Braves reopen talks with the Pads about Peavy
Dempster and Burnett were on their list. Demp is gone. I assume they’ll try to get Burnett, maybe Sheets. But they wanted to add 2 arms this winter.
by philadelphiacub on Nov 18, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Burnett Is As Good As Gone...
… if the 5 @ $80M offer from the Yankees is true…
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it is one pitcher off the market
So teams pursuing him have to set their sights elsewhere.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It also removes the "need" factor.
Signing Dempster gives off the impression, maybe to the Padres, that the Cubs don’t necassarily need another starting pitcher. Kevin Towers might be willing to reexamine his asking price if the Cubs are the only team left on Peavy’s short list willing to make a deal. Just a thought.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I still think some of the mid-level pitchers will sign first and then CC. I know that big name usually sets the market, but I think just the offers to CC have already accomplished that.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Nov 18, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone notice
that Dempster i signed for roughly the same as what Peavy has left on his contract?
I’d rather have Peavy.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Nov 18, 2008 1:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Peavy Has A Lot More On His Contract...
… if he is moved, he will likely demand that his 2013 $22M option is exercised.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Nov 18, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy
I’d rather have Dempster who was healthy last year and the players we would have given up for Peavy to be used in other deals than Peavy.
To me it’s a double sided issue.
Thngs of worth are worth fighting for regardless of the odds.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 18, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a double sided issue wrapped in a riddle.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Enclosed by a question and encased by an enigma.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a plethora of descriptive phrases for a baseball post
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 18, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Enigma (and being completely off-topic)
Here’s an old, safe for work video with their song on it that I can’t get enough of as a pilot.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster has more health concerns...
than Peavy…
and it has been rumored that Demp constantly bitches about paying for health care…a true clubhouse cancer if I’ve ever seen one.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but, like all Canadians, he's 25% funnier than the rest of us.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not wild aboot this signing...
I was hoping a mountie would kidnap Demp and take him to the Blue Jays.
And…uhh…eh?
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've never actually heard that rumor before
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Him and Bryan Adams...
talk about it frequently, or so I’ve heard.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Clubhouse cancer
Seriously? I think you could call Dempster alot of stuff but that doesn’t seem to fit. I know your not too happy with his signing but thats a pretty bold claim. Anything to substantiate the rumor?
by StevenABQ on Nov 18, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Avril Lavigne
told me.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Better light up a sarcasm sign just in case...
but no, of course Demp isn’t a cancer. It was a jab at his Canadianness.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me = clueless
Sorry, thats what I get for taking a break from serious work to check out the latest comments. My bad.
by StevenABQ on Nov 18, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I got it after the Bryan Adams bit
I was multitasking before…..
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 18, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
William Shatner
disagrees! KAAAAHN!!!!!!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And she's the muthaf**kin' princess.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dempster officially signed (sorry if i’m late) i just got an update from MLB.com on my phone
my stuff is filthy
by carlos marmol on Nov 18, 2008 1:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gordon Wittenmyer broke the story via Twitter a while ago.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Breaking news...
Now that Dempster has signed, Peavy may or may not be traded.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 1:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure about that?
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Nov 18, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It has been confirmed.
Rest easy.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's ridiculous
my sources say he could be traded
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
According to Sun-Times sources, Dempster and his agent, Craig Landis, were seeking a five-year, $70-million deal.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Nov 18, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow.
this is better.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're sources are wrong.
I have 8 blog FanPosts by qualified baseball fans saying the contrary.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 18, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Davis on ESPN1000
just now used the words, “on the verge of re-signing” Dempster to 4 for $52M.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Nov 18, 2008 2:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It made sense
Dempster took a discount at the end of the day (13 AAV is probably a discount off market price). We needed to bring in one starter, and this was the most sensible move. I’m not saying I like it, as any starting pitcher with a deal for more than 3 years is a risky move, but it was the sensible move.
Now … about that lefty bat and the top of the order. Also, a lefty pen arm would be nice but they seem to be going fast.
by toonsterwu on Nov 18, 2008 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Where is there a discount?
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Nov 18, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's an assumption...
Given that he’s marketing himself as the 3rd or 4th best free agent on the market. If Burnett is getting an offer of 5 years, $80 million, then the market for Dempster is probably at least 4 years, $52 million.
The question of whether or not he’ll be worth 4 years, $52 million is entirely separate. Simply judging by the free agent contracts for pitchers coming off lesser success the last few years, I’d say 4 years $52 million is probably a discount.
by SouthernCub on Nov 18, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re-defining the term "market"
if one team is throwing way more money around than everyone else is there really a “market”
i ask because the only team talking about 5-80 for Burnett or 6-140 for Sabathia is the Yankees. The “market” for Burnett is somewhere between 4-54 (Blue Jays Offer) and 5-80 (Yankees offer) right? Or is the market 5-80 when only one team is willing to go even close to that?
my feeling is that the market is closer to the 2nd place bids when the Yankees are throwing money around like this. They can’t sign “everyone” so the 2nd place bid is more representative of “the market”
just my view point
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 18, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pedroia wins MVP.
Linky
Scrappy would be proud.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Nov 18, 2008 2:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
wooohooo!
Glad to have Demp back with the Cubs for four more years!
by Cubinator on Nov 18, 2008 4:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
damn this thread got really large
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 4:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, BlueMike drops a couple F-bombs...
…and the place goes nuts.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 18, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I saw that
haven’t seen him since
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha wtf is a mambochicken?
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 18, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's some discussion of this above.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and...
last
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 11:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
hah! not so fast
for I am now!
LAST
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 19, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
too bad
so sad…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 19, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 19, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct sir!
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 19, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
last
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 4:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
wild schtuff!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 19, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
meh ok "mambochicken (heh......i think that term is quite hilarious)"
i’m last!
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 19, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha I can keep this going sister!
heh over half of these posts won’t have ANYTHING to do with Dempster, but the final posts of MBDIU (which I am honored is in my thread) and last posts
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 19, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What, he is gone?
but not forgotten.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 19, 2008 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shane, I mean Blue Mike, come back
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 19, 2008 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Come back to the 5 and dime, Blue Mike
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 19, 2008 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh where have you gone, Blue Mike Dimaggio?
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 19, 2008 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm looking for a man with grit, true Blue Mike grit
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 19, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's all this about?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 19, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According to chanman BM has left the building
or did I misinterpret something?
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Nov 19, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure but
he may be with DaBard somewhere pounding sand or throwing fast balls at each other.
by sue369 on Nov 19, 2008 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well I mean I don't have a deep goat on this site haha
but he hasn’t posted since yesterday so..
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Nov 19, 2008 9:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According to his profile...
…BM hasn’t posted any comments since those he made in this very thread on Tuesday. He did cast a vote in a BCB (and Evil BCB) poll later that same day. Could Al have finally pulled the trigger and banned him again? Only time will tell.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 20, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he'll be back.
bad pennies always do.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 20, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mixed feeling about Dempster being re-signed.
I am glad that the player is back, he’s a good pitcher and great teammate.
On the other hand I thought that acquiring peavy or re-signing Wood to be better moves because you are much more likely to pay for future performance with those players v. Dempster. The term length and $ are much more likely to be for 2008 with Depmster, not that he’s going to become awful, but he had an exceptional season and I think it’s much more likely that he performs more like an average pitcher in the future. He’s still a good guy to have on the team.
by DudeVf11 on Nov 19, 2008 8:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
last
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Dec 1, 2008 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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