Lou on the radio
by KyCubsFan on Nov 19, 2008 10:27 AM CST
92 comments
Did anyone hear Lou on the radio this morning? I was at work and didn't hear a lot of the comments. Two that I did catch paraphrasing:
"The team is too similar 1-8 right handed, slow"
On Fukodme: talked to a lot of people involved with Japanese baseball and they think the combination of not playing a full season in Japan in 07 due to surgery combined with the move to MLB hurt him. Lou talked of adjusting the training schedule to be more Americanized and being familiar with the league as reasons to be postive going forward.
Lou did make comments on Gregg and how to improve being too right handed and slow but missed them.
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"The team is too similar 1-8 right handed, slow"
…well god forbid if Pie got a chance to play then. I like Lou quite a bit, but I am getting really tired his “doghouse”.
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Nov 19, 2008 10:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 19, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
god forbid
pie ever hit a left hander.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 19, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we didn't get knocked out by LH pitching
it was a string of righties…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 19, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
were always
going to be split on pie. some say he didnt get enough of a chance and people like me say Lou did the right thing.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 19, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's fine
except if Lou is complaining about the lineup being too RH and too slow, then how is not playing Pie the right thing?
i don’t see how he can be right on both sides
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 19, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He can be right...
if Pie can’t hit RHP. Being LH and fast is only relevant if you can actually hit RHP. Piniella apparently doesn’t think Pie can hit RHP, and therefore Pie is not the answer to being more LH and faster.
The implicit part is what you’re overlooking. If literally all Piniella cares about is being less RH and faster, then Pie would obviously fit. But he wants those attributes in someone who will hit as well.
The debate is, of course as always, whether or not Pie will actually be able to hit at the MLB level. That’s where the dissent lies.
by SouthernCub on Nov 19, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we're digressing
but you’re basically operating off the assumption that the complaint is our lineup can’t hit RH pitching
The problem with that is we hit RH pitching just fine during the regular season (.793 OPS vs RH, .807 OPS vs. LH)
I’m taking his comment that we’re too RH and too slow very literally and not assuming anything more than he thinks we’re too RH and too Slow and need more balance
So even if the assumption you’re making is correct, the facts don’t support it
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 19, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think you're missing the point by taking him too literally...
He obviously doesn’t think we were successful enough hitting against RHP, regardless of what our OPS splits were as a team. That’s why he wants to get more LH in the lineup. He wants to get faster because it gives him more versatility with what he can do offensively.
The assumption I’m making about what Piniella wants should be obvious. He clearly thinks very little of Pie’s ability to hit. He’s not looking for LH bats and speed at the expense of ability to hit. That’s the point.
Now, we can discuss whether or not Piniella is wrong about needing to be more LH and whether he’s wrong about Pie’s ability to hit. But I think it’s pretty clear why he doesn’t consider Pie an answer to what he’s looking for.
by SouthernCub on Nov 19, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine... just use a better argument than hitting LHP...
The problem wasn’t being too right-handed versus LHP. It was being too right-handed versus RHP. Piniella was sitting the lefties in CF in favor of Johnson when LHP were starting anyway.
Now, if you want to argue that Pie can’t hit RHP, then at least there’s a discussion point.
by SouthernCub on Nov 19, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he's right about Fukudome...
… that solves one problem.
I can’t imagine why he’s so unhappy with a team that led the NL in runs scored in 2008.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 19, 2008 12:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If he really believed it and if the problem was really solved
then why did he say 1-8 we’re right-handed and slow? That sounds like a manager who’s approaching the Dome-platoons-with-RJ plan the same way he approached the Pie-platoons-with-RJ plan.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 19, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good question.
I don’t know the answer.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 19, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What radio station was this?
If it was WGN, it may end up as a podcast.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 12:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Dodgers didn't throw one lefty at the Cubs during the whole NLDS...
When a line-up is too right handed, it allows an opposing manager to pitch his staff & bullpen anyway he chooses. If you have some lefties in there, especially ones that can hit with some modicum of power, then you can force an opposing manager to make moves that he might not make if he didn’t have to think about his bullpen and match-ups. This may sound too simple, but forcing an opposing manager to make moves with his pitchers, (esp. in the NL), limits the effectiveness of opposing pitching, and might just get you the match-up that you desire, with percentages on your side.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 19, 2008 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Then why didn't Mike Fontenot play at all in the NLDS?
Ask Lou THAT one.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 19, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to. I think it has to do with him thinking Dome could provide something...
.. and by the time he realized he couldn’t- it was too late.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 19, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou and JH should do that...
…a conference call with 50 randomly-selected season ticket holders.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Nov 19, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd pay 20 bucks to hear that....
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Nov 19, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that Torre didn't bother with the lefties
because our RH bench bats were so strong, not because there wasn’t an advantage to be had using a lefty v. Fontenot or Edmonds.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 19, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For one thing, they didn't have LH starters to choose from
So that meant they’d only go to a LHP if they needed a bullpen arm. And given that we didn’t have any LH bats that struck fear in the hearts of the opposing manager, there’s no reason to bring in a LHP.
I’m not sure that I agree that it was due to our strong RH options off the bench. I mean, who did we have on the bench? Fontenot/Fukudome, Johnson, Cedeno, Pie, Blanco, Ward. I’d say that’s pretty much a wash, if not a bit in favor of the LH options.
by SouthernCub on Nov 19, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's one way to look at it...
Torre didn’t even throw a lefty at Edmonds, (the one LHPB in the line-up). Why? I don’t know, maybe he liked the match-ups with RHs vs. Edmonds. The fact remains though that the line-up is terribly unbalanced and allows opposing managers to make decisions & take risks such as using a RHP against a LHB. It also limits the Cubs as far as substitutions for match-up’s sake, or forcing an opposing manager to make moves he might not want to necessarily make.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 19, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about it in the games.
It didn’t make sense to throw a LH against Edmonds because Lou would just bring in RJ and even if you left the LHP in to face RJ, it’d be Soto after that.
Blanco was also killing lefties last year.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 19, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing you are missing
is that Torre was playing with house money that whole series. The Dodgers had a lead, frequently sizable, the whole series. There is no reason to bring in pitchers for match up reasons when your pitcher is cruising and even if Edmonds hurts you in a given situation, it will not cost you the lead.
You manage totally differently when you are way ahead than you do when it is a one run game or tied or if you are behind. That is why “winning pct when scoring first” is one of the most underappreciated stats in baseball.
by azjazzman on Nov 20, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...that's the most underappreciated stat in baseball?
Srsly?
You couldn’t come up with one that has, y’know, fewer selective sampling issues?
by cwyers on Nov 20, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe I said
ONE of the most underappreciated, and yes, I believe that.
If you are looking for something that will be an early predictor of who will eventually win any given ballgame, show me a better stat.
by azjazzman on Nov 20, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be a bigger fan of that stat if I knew it was being calculated fairly.
fer instance… if visiting team scratches out a single run in the top of the first, does that qualify as ‘scoring first’ even though other team hasn’t had a chance to bat yet? what if home team turns around and scores a boatload in the bottom of the first. does this scenario still qualify?
if it was something like “winning pct when scoring first after equal number of innings played”, I’d certainly appreciate it more.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 20, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Looking at the Phillies run to the World Series this year…they played 14 post season games (4 NLDS, 5 NLCS and 5 WS). In 11 of those 14 games, the team that scored first won. In 2 of the 3 where the team that didn’t score first won, that team answered the first score with a score of their own in the next half inning.
So, if you calculated winning pct. by who scores first and then holds the lead for at least one inning, I’m sure it would be very high.
by azjazzman on Nov 20, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it would be!
You know what, though? I bet you the win percentage on teams who score last would be pretty high, too.
by cwyers on Nov 20, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I get your point
other than to be argumentative.
As it turns out, in the Phillies play off run, only 6 times out of 14 games did the team that scored last wind up the winner, so in that small sample, the team that scored first was a much better predictor.
Besides, I said an early predictor. Waiting to see who scores last is kind of pointless because you don’t know who will score last until the final out is made.
by azjazzman on Nov 20, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a selective sampling issue.
If you simply look at the win-loss record of a team that’s scored at all (in a large enough sample, of course), it’s typically above .500.
Even if the effect you are trying to talk about does not exist at all, we would still expect the team that scores first to have a better than .500 percent shot of winning, because we know that at one point in the game, they had a lead. So it doesn’t prove anything.
by cwyers on Nov 20, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are giving me a headache
Of course a sample of a team that scores at all would be above .500, because it sorts out the times they got shut out.
The point is not that the team that scores first has a better than .500 record, it is the fact that it is WAY above .500. If it was only slightly above .500 it wouldn’t be a predictor of anything.
But the real point, which has gotten lost in all this statistical masturbation is the fact that when a team has a lead, in a pennant race or a playoff situation, the manager manages MUCH differently than he would in a tie game or a game he is trailing. He uses the fact that he has a lead to dictate his moves, unlike during the regular season when many other things to enter in.
And it didn’t slip by me that you didn’t respond what I said about your red herring of the team that scores last.
by azjazzman on Nov 20, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course a sample of a team that scores at all would be above .500, because it sorts out the times they got shut out.
Why do you not understand that this is exactly what you are doing.
by cwyers on Nov 20, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I do understand
that is why I brought it up. Why do you not understand that is does not materially impact the basic point I was making, or the fact that this is a significant stat, despite that minor selective sample issue?
by azjazzman on Nov 21, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Please
“we would still expect the team that scores first to have a better than .500 percent shot of winning, because we know that at one point in the game, they had a lead. So it doesn’t prove anything.”
Uh, yes it does. It proves that if you score first you are more likely to win than you are if the other team scores first. By a lot.
by azjazzman on Nov 20, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't Jim Edmonds start all 3 games? and hit 5th or 6th?
I just don’t get this
by philadelphiacub on Nov 19, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. What don't you get?
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 19, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Am I in a minority
that thinks Fuk is going to have a good year in ‘09? I really think he’ll bounce back. Never a big HR threat but a solid doubles machine. Anyone agree with this?
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Nov 19, 2008 1:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I dunno if I agree....
… but I hope your right!
by TheHawkRules on Nov 19, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only person that thinks that Dome had a good year in 2008?
I mean, not spectacular, but factoring in things like defense and baserunning, he was roughly a league-average ballplayer.
I think the problem was less Fukudome and more:
1) The expectations we had for him.
2) The way in which we measure ballplayers overvalues offense, and particularly home runs.
by cwyers on Nov 19, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You aren't the only one. You pegged it perfectly, with your citing expectations, and subjective analysis in how we measure ballplayers.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 19, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
the problem is, Dome’s numbers in the last 2 months were dismal and he frequently looked overmatched at the plate. Frustration was evident. Something has to change in 2009, because if he gets off to a slow start, it is safe to assume he will not recover.
by azjazzman on Nov 20, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
12 million reasons
why he’s viewed in that manner
plus the problem is the bulk of his production offensively came in the first two months of the season after that no matter how good his defense and baserunning were it couldn’t overcome his inability to get on base or hit (.217-.314-.326 in the 2nd half)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 19, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the raw numbers aren't that bad-
it’s they way they came. (I know BA is a terrible stat) but to use it as a quick example- he hit roughly .300 the first half and .200 the second half. It’s the second half that has most people scratching their heads. I agree- his defense, base running, and even OBP were average to good. However, if the second half is how he’d going to perform, those skills won’t be given the chance to play, they’ll be on the bench
by philadelphiacub on Nov 19, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, however...
… the Cubs weren’t paying him to be a league-average player.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 19, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And it's not just the paying him.
Lou was talking at the beginning like Dome was going to be a perfect cleanup hitter. Dome was never going to be a ML cleanup hitter. The wrong expectations started with Cub management and you have to wonder if those expectations were part of what led to his second-half slide.
This is my great fear for this off-season. Lou wants a lefty to bat 4th. Sure, Mark Teahen’s an interesting player with upside. But he’s not what Lou wants and we can’t go through another season where players are kicked around or blamed for not being what they never could be.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 19, 2008 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
If Lou really wants Dome to succeed, he should slot him in the #7 spot and leave him there.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 20, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dome could end up being a spectacular #2 hitter.
We just have to let him be what he is.
My ideal off-season for the Cubs is one where they find a take for Soriano’s contract, put his salary towards the lefty slugger, who will fit better in LF than RF anyway, let Pie bat 8th, Dome 6th (to start the season), and the slugger 4th. I don’t see it happening, but I believe both Dome and Pie will have good ’09s. It would be nice if we were the recipient of both those seasons.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 20, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs offense
DeRosa is one of the few able (imho) to shift up and down the batting order, Dome needs to be in one position maybe 2 maybe 8 and stuck there.
by KyCubsFan on Nov 20, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why unload Sori?
The following LFs had a better OPS than Sori in 2008:
ManRam
Carlos Quentin
Matt Holliday
Carlos Lee
Adam Dunn
Jason Bay
Ryan Braun
Adam Dunn is the only LHB in the group. In 651 PAs, he had 100 RBIs, scored 79 runs, and stole 1 base.
Sori, in 503 PAs, scored 76 runs, had 79 RBIs, and had 19 SB (3 CS). Sori is also a significantly better defensive LF than Dunn (-2 vs. -13).
Sori might not be the ideal (read: Roberts-like) leadoff batter, but he is a tremendous offensive force. Why are you in such a hurry to dump him?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 20, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Lou has to get a LH slugger
and the best fit is to put Dunn in LF batting 4th ahead of Aramis. I like Soriano. I think he’s underappreciated. But I’d hate to see what Lou could do to Hermida or Teahen if he doesn’t get his lefty cleanup hitter.
If you swap Dunn and Soriano, we save $$$ and can afford to play a younger LH RF/CF, and we can afford to get a SS. Trading Soriano re-opens a lot of possibility for this roster.
On the opposite hand, if you decide you have to move Soriano down in the order, well, then it gets really complicated and ugly if having too many RH sluggers in a row is a problem – which it is, for Lou.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 20, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Following your reasoning, the better player to unload would be DLee.
If the only reason for unloading Sori is to create room for a LHB slugger, it makes more sense to unload DLee even though the salary savings aren’t as great ($13M vs. $16M). There are plenty of LHBs that are strictly 1B (some of whom are less expensive than Dunn), so you would widen the talent pool in your search for a clean-up hitter. Hank Blalock would be one possibility, Nick Johnson would be another. Aubrey Huff might also fit. Adam LaRoche has hit in the middle of the order before, though I’m not a big fan of his. Dunn can also play 1B, though not very well. Maybe Texeira would give the Cubs a discount to re-unite with Sori and DeRo…or not.
I would keep the more athletic player (isn’t that what Lou wants?) and create space for a slugger at the same time. That would also allow me to have a place for Furcal or Roberts to play as RF would be open to DeRo (though he might have to be traded for budget reasons). It would also allow me to get a leadoff batting CF (Randy Winn?) and keep Dome in RF and DeRo at 2B.
Obviously, both guys have NTCs so the likelihood of either scenario happening is nil.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 20, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NTCs
Lee won’t waive his – we have that from Miles. But nothing has been said about Soriano and his NTC, which was odd, I thought, since the article from Bruce said that neither Aramis nor Lee would waive their NTCs.
The other thing about Lee v. Sori is that trading Sori helps the long-term financial problems more than trading Lee.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 20, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that I see Sori's contract as a long-term financial problem.
Obviously, if the Ricketts family (or whoever else) turn out to be misers, then that contract is a huge problem; otherwise, I don’t think so.
Four things make a contract bad:
1. A player seriously underperforms the contract. (see Zito, Barry)
2. A player is injured and cannot perform per the contract. (see Carpenter, Chris and Hampton, Mike)
3. A GM does something very stupid (see Pierre, Juan)
4. A player doesn’t take his signature very seriously and doesn’t keep himself in shape. (see Pavano, Carl and Jones, Andruw)
None of those four things apply to Sori. He is performing at a very high level, his injuries haven’t been that serious, and he has kept himself in excellent condition. Given the current market, he is an $18M ballplayer. The fact that the contract is back-loaded is both a blessing and a curse to the team, but that doesn’t make it a bad contract.
In order to win, a team needs talent. Given the Cubs’ record of developing position player talent, they are going to get most of that talent on the FA market. As long as the GM signs the appropriate player to the appropriate contract, the contract should help — not hurt — a big market team like the Cubs.
If the Cubs have a bad contract, it is Dome’s. It was a stupid mistake by the GM to sign a singles-hitting OBP type player to a power hitter’s contract. Even if Dome hits .300/.380/.420 and wins a gold glove next year, he probably isn’t worth $12M (plus perks).
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 20, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I see your point about Dome (although we weren't even the highest bidder on him).
You also make good points about Soriano. Let’s say this about Soriano – he brings value to this team; most of the frustration with him revolves around people wanting him to be something different than what he is. That, in fact, is one of the biggest problems I see with the Cubs in general – we have valuable players and we want them to be something different than what they are.
But I still think that if the Cubs trade Soriano, the value of what we receive in trade plus the value of Adam Dunn outweight Soriano at a cheaper and shorter contract.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 20, 2008 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I will say that I am not an Adam Dunn fan.
If you were clearing Sori out to make way for A-Rod I would be all ears. Let’s just say that I’m not impressed when a middle-of-the-order hitter hits 40 HRs and only manages 100 RBIs.
Assuming that Lou’s non-sensical statement: “My 1-8 hitters are all exactly alike; RH, slow, powerful” were true (and it obviously isn’t), his desire to “get more athletic” will not be helped by Dunn. Even though Dunn is on the sunny side of 30, he’s got a lower defensive rating than Luis Gonzalez due to his immobility — and that immobility won’t get better. Do you want to be paying him $18M in 2012? He will still have his power, but he will become the living personification of “walks clog the bases”, and the Vegas bookies will take wagers on whether Dunn can score from 2B on a triple. $18M???
Do you think a four-year contract would be wise for a 31 year old speedster who is recovering from back surgery just because he is a switch-hitter? Sori’s $18M in 2012 will look much better than Furcal’s $13M because both will have lost their speed, but Sori will still have his power.
If either one could be traded, I would rather it be DLee just so that I could cast a wider net in my search for a LHB cleanup hitter.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 20, 2008 11:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What you're saying about Furcal is absolutely true
but the Cubs are heading for a 2009 disaster if we don’t have another SS option in house.
I think Dunn’s contract will be significantly less than you are expecting. Maybe I should be warming up to Abreu.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 20, 2008 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you do Victorino
for Harden and DeRo?
Dunn is supposedly waiting for Tex to sign; he will set his price based on that. Personally, I don’t think that Dunn is worth 1/3 of Tex.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 21, 2008 12:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely not.
I wouldn’t trade either one of those guys 1-1 for Victorino.
How about this – would you trade Soriano for Ethier?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 22, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
contract for contract? i.e. Cubs don't have to pay any part of Soriano's contract?
I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 22, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, contract for contract -
if they asked for $$$, how much would you be willing to pay? Any?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Nov 22, 2008 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably none, but that's just me
I’m sure there’s a “right” amount that would still make this deal worthwhile, but I’ve never liked idea of money trading hands so if they asked for money, I’d probably back off. I’m a “you make your bed, you lie in it” kind of guy, and for better or worse, the Cubs certainly made their bed with Soriano.
So yeah, there probably is a good dollar figure for this deal to make sense, but I don’t know what it is. That’s why I’m out on the street instead of in the suite…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2008 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you would...
…have to pay any of Soriano’s contract you mine as well keep him. The problem with Soriano is not his produciton, it is the fact he shouldn’t be leading off.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 23, 2008 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what to think.
I’m still a little scarred from the second half of this past season. I never expected him to hit a lot of home runs – and still don’t. I just wanted to see the patient, high-OBP contact hitter who showed up on Opening Day make it through the entire season.
I’m going to need to see a high degree of confidence and consistency before I start to really believe in Dome again. Unfortunately, even if he’s fantastic the first couple months, it may not mean anything given how he trailed off this year. I do wish Kosuke the best, though. I was ecstatic when he signed and would love to see him succeed with the Cubs.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that he will have a much better 2009 than 2008 if he is given a chance.
However, I’m not convinced that Lou will give him that chance. Also, while his RF defense was spectacular, his CF defense is likely to be only average which will make him look worse.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 19, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope he will.
I think he can.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 19, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you, the Little Engine That Could?
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Don’t make me run you over.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 19, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir??
I don’t envision Hoffpauir to be the next Billy Williams. I’d be ecstatic, if Hoff played as well as Leon Durham did, but he might be the best left-handed power bat the Cubs have right now. That’s assuming Edmonds doesn’t resign. Where on the field can Hoff play? He’s not going to play left because of Soriano’s bat. He’s not the near the first baseman D-Lee is defensively. He can’t play right like Dome can. He’s got a good enough LH bat to be in an otherwise righthanded heavy lineup, but is there a place for him?
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Nov 19, 2008 3:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, I haven't heard much talk of re-signing Daryle Ward.
Maybe he’ll take over that role? That’s all I can think of, really.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and that's precisely the problem.
Where on the field can Hoff play?
Nowhere.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 19, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sully posted a summary of the interview:
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Nov 19, 2008 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Dempster's To Do List - 11/18/08
Pick up cinnamon raisin bagel and large coffee from Einstein Bros. – CHECK
Sign contract extension with the Chicago Cubs for $52 million – CHECK
Piss off Lou Piniella – CHECK
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget...
…Buy house slightly bigger then Lilly’s – IN PROCESS
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Nov 19, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also
practice catcher tackling — IN PROCESS.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Nov 19, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well Lou can't bench him
So let him speak up and be a team leader.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 19, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Every time Lou opens his mouth my opinion of him drops.......
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 19, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Hendry's giving an interview on XM
RIGHT NOW!!!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Nov 19, 2008 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
well, hopefuly you'll come back and tell us what he said.
by xene on Nov 19, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I recorded it and will and will post what was said
after I get home tonight.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Nov 19, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
"I see I'm not the only one around here who can't hold his water." - Last words of the leaky pipe in the visiting team dugout, Dodger Stadium, October 4, 2008.
by dat cubfan daver on Nov 19, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we are still waiting...
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Nov 20, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, haven't had a chance to listen to the recording.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Nov 20, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not impressed with Lou's comments.
To the extent that they drive the vision and deals for 2009 it’s disappointing, but if it’s just offering something for the great collapse then who really cares?
The Team, GM/Manager would do better to focus on what skills and production they should value in a player much more so than obsess with matchups. Match-ups are more for tweaking the roster or filing it out once you have a foundation. Soriano, Aramis, & Sot make for a decent foundation but not enough. But it seems we are relying on Lee returning to form, Fukudome being productive and then the mystery guy for RF. I’d rather get the most productive hitter for RF than worry about whether he’s a LHB.
by DudeVf11 on Nov 19, 2008 8:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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